1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Live from Vaal Hartliner and the Crossroads of America. It's 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Tony Katz today. Can you have peace with Vladimir Putin? 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: And does peace come through a summit? Or does peace 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: come by saying, hey, here's all our bombs. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: We've got more. 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Than you now, can we get this done? And if 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: that's the case, exactly when does that happen? Because the 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: B fifty you fly over, while it was very very nice, 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: didn't seem to do the trick knowing that a missal 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: attack on Ukraine just next to the Slovakia border hit 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: a US owned business. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: to be with you. Major Mike Lyons joins me and 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: right now retired United States Army West Point is where 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: he does the work military analysts to see him all 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: over your cable dial. 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 2: He is our guy. 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: First, let's get into the conversation about summits themselves. The 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: political left want to say that Trump got played like 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: a fiddle. The political right want to say, look how 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: much strength Trump had. I look in the meaning between 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: Trump and Putin, They're in anchorage, and I say, all right, 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: this is very much a Trump thing to do. Look 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: a guy in the eye, try and get it done. 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: Remind you how much hardware we have, what are we doing? 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: What was your take on the summit? 26 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, probably that, Tony. I think that this is Donald Trump. 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: The art of the deal has to again look him 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 4: in the eye and propose something out there and get 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 4: a feel for what's going on. I think he said 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 4: a low expectation going and he said he'll know in 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 4: the first five or ten seconds whether or not we'll 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 4: get a deal or not. I think he felt comfortable 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 4: with whatever Putin said to him, and I think that, 34 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 4: you know, he continued to go down that path enough 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 4: where it did definitely put the political left on a 36 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 4: tiels by saying it was a failure. But you know, 37 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 4: they over the week pretty much administration Marco Rubio, as 38 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 4: they went on the Sunday morning programs, they all kind 39 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 4: of buttoned up and said we have to, you know, 40 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 4: find out what the next steps were. And then we 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 4: saw the European leaders show up Monday right away. That 42 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 4: was pretty interesting as well. Who specifically was at that 43 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 4: meeting with the President talking about the summit? 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: Europe backing up President Trump. 45 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 4: So I thowt it got off to a good start 46 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: last week with Friday, with the meeting, I thought it 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 4: was the right thing to do, and then when Europe 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 4: shows up to backstop it, I thought was very important. 49 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 4: I mean, it was definitely a different vibe and it 50 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 4: looked like there was a lot of momentum. But as 51 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 4: summits have historically shown, they can fall apart quickly as well. 52 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: And to that point, it is interesting you were discussing 53 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: it a little bit before we started recording that. As 54 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: I noted, the left was opposed. Look how you're elevating 55 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. He's a murder of this and that, yes, 56 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: but he's the warring party, and Trump is not a 57 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: fan of war. He really has a fundamental issue with 58 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: it in every single way. He tries to end it 59 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: because he doesn't understand it's its value, it's important. He 60 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: he doesn't see anything in there that makes sense. He 61 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: wants to be this peace president. That seems very very obvious. 62 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: So he has the meeting. But to that end, it 63 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: brings up a larger conversation about meetings. We take a 64 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: look at Russia US relations and we think of Ronald 65 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev in Regumik, right, We think of 66 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: that meeting where here Gorbachev shows up in nine coats 67 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: and a fur hat and here's Reagan in a suit 68 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: because he's wearing thermal underwear. 69 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: And that was that. That visual was the end of 70 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: the game. 71 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about summits in general and how 72 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: you think they work over history. 73 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, that that initial meeting failed, as we know that 74 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: when Reagan said you could have said yes when he 75 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 4: proposed something, and it had that mostly had to do 76 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: with nuclear treaties. But eventually more meetings came about and 77 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 4: the fact remained that they were able to get something 78 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 4: done finally. But that initial one. 79 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: But if you look back in history. 80 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 4: Go back to World War Two when large when major 81 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 4: power leaders got together, and I think look from the 82 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 4: Vietnam War when they tried to do different summits the 83 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 4: United States and Russia in particular in the fifties, Eisenhower 84 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: had a Geneva Summer to try to figure out how 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 4: to deal with the Soviet Union back then at the time. 86 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 4: But the bottom line is just for them to be successful, 87 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 4: they have to have clear up objectives, clear expectations as. 88 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: To what's going on. 89 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 4: They have to be written down usually so everybody knows 90 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: what they are, and they're transparent in that manner, but 91 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: then they have to be enforced and then enforce a 92 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 4: bull and that seems to be what's going to be 93 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 4: the sticking point right now with this current summit. You've 94 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 4: got to be able to put troops. Go back to 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 4: the Vietnam War for example, any of those kinds of 96 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 4: treaties that tried to stop wars that they have to 97 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 4: have the way to reinforce them, the Dating Accords for example, 98 00:04:58,480 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five. 99 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 3: So again you bring it all together, you have to 100 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: have at least those. 101 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 4: Three components to have a successful summit, and unfortunately right 102 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 4: now we don't have any of them. 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: Well, so does that mean you categorize the Trump Putin 104 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: meeting as a failure. 105 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 4: Well, for now, I think summits have to go in 106 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 4: cerial and the first thing you have to do is 107 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 4: get this expectation and start writing things down and see 108 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 4: what the negotiations are. And it seems as though from 109 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 4: what I'm my understanding now, from what Trump thought Putin said, 110 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 4: from what Putin is saying today only five days later, 111 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 4: seems to be a disconnect. And I think that's the 112 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 4: issue here, and which is why this is. 113 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Well, get intoime with me talking to Major Mike Lyons, 114 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: retired United States Army military analyst. What's the disconnect? What 115 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: in your view, what God said, what's being said? 116 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: Now? 117 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Trump thought Putin would allow Western militaries 118 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 4: and he would have allowed this security agreement in Ukraine, 119 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 4: would have allowed soldiers and other trees to place troops 120 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 4: inside Ukraine to reinforce this new border if once Ukraine 121 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 4: was willing. 122 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 3: To give up some of that land. 123 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 4: Giving up land from Ukraine's perspective is a huge deal, 124 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 4: and I think that was one of the sticking points 125 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 4: with Trump when he told Zelensky, you don't have the cards. 126 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 4: You know. The bottom line is, you know Russia has 127 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 4: occupied that land. They've occupied it for a while. They've 128 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 4: been there since twenty fourteen, for example in Crimea. And 129 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 4: so Zelensky was willing to at least take that back 130 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: to his Congress to say we're going to lose this 131 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 4: land area. 132 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: He wants security assurances. 133 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 4: Well, I think Trump thought Putin agreed to that, But 134 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 4: it doesn't look like that's the case anymore. 135 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: It looks like from what Labrapha said and what's. 136 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 4: Kind of come out that Putin is back to his 137 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: hardline stands of he wants the area in the Dombas, 138 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 4: he wants no NATO assurances in Ukraine, and he wants 139 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 4: no Western troops inside that area. 140 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: So I think that's a little bit of a salemate. 141 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: So the idea that he went back on his word, 142 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: the Vladimir Putin went back on his word, there's no 143 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: surprise in this. It would be impossible to see somebody 144 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: be surprised that Putin cannot be trusted. And then you 145 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: see this bombing that took place basically a mile from 146 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: the Slovakia border, very close to the Polish border there 147 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: from Russia, that hits this US aligned and funded business. 148 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: That had to have been purposeful, right. 149 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: That was Vladimir Putin saying we'll do anything we want, 150 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: anytime we want. 151 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: We hold all the cards. 152 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: I mean, that was really the to me, that was 153 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the signal to President Trump that I think I can 154 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: call your bluff. 155 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: Was that not it? 156 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so, Tony. I think that again. 157 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 4: I never thought from the beginning, though there was enough 158 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 4: leverage on Putin to stop if you were going to 159 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 4: make a historical analysis to anything right now would be 160 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: the dat and the Cords of ninety five, when finally 161 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 4: the US air power came in on the side of 162 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 4: Bosnia and was able to you know, tip the balance 163 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: in favor at least get both sides to admit that 164 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: they were going anywhere militarily. That's just not the case 165 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 4: right now. Vladimir Putin still believes he can win militarily. 166 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: For example, And every time I open up the paper 167 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 4: today and you know, go to go to the internet 168 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 4: and get my news, we find that Russia has launched 169 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 4: the largest attack ever you know, to date on Ukraine. 170 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: Well, it keeps escalating. 171 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: They keep ratcheting up the pressure or cruise missiles and 172 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: the like, and the air defense systems can't seem to 173 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 4: stop them. 174 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: So Russia is. 175 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: Escalating right now. And this is not like escalating before 176 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 4: peace negotiations. This is an escalation to try to put 177 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 4: more pressure on Ukraine. So I don't I don't think 178 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 4: Russia ever had the leverage on them. That's similar to 179 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 4: that it took in dateon in ninety five in order 180 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 4: to get those those two sides to agree to some 181 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 4: kind of a ceasefire. 182 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't think the US had the leverage 183 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: on them now, well, Ukraine really is. 184 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 4: They're the ones that you know, there's not been enough pressure. 185 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 4: If if all of a sudden, the United States does 186 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 4: did enter the conflict, did all of a sudden fly 187 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 4: air cover, did provide offensive weapons, more offensive weapons, for example, 188 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 4: and had given them a chance they'll previous three years, 189 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 4: then maybe that would happen. But for right now we're 190 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 4: seeing also from a warfare strategic perspective, you can't defend something, 191 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 4: George Patten said from the very beginning, you just can't. 192 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 3: You know, if you're going to sit there and take. 193 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: It as a country and defend, you're eventually going to lose, 194 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 4: especially a war of attrition against the country that's got 195 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 4: more resources. 196 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: So talking to Major Mike Lions, retired United States Army, 197 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: we should at this moment make sure that we're all 198 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: on the same page about what we're discussing. We're discussing 199 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: how Russia sees the war with Ukraine and does not 200 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: concern itself as of yet with any level of European 201 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: and the United States intervention. 202 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: That's the discussion here. 203 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: This is not a discussion whether the United States could 204 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: take the Russian military state States could end the Russian 205 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: military in seven and a half seconds. 206 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: Because to your point, major Lions, the. 207 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: Russians have proved that they don't have a military worth 208 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: a good Holy dang. They absolutely turn this into a cluster. 209 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: What was supposed to be three days is now three years. 210 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: They couldn't even figure out how to run their tanks 211 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: on roads. Instead they ran through muddy fields. But what 212 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: the Russians do have and have historically had, is a 213 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: willingness to let people die for the cause. And in 214 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: as you were describing, a war of attrition, the Russians 215 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: can outlast the Ukrainians without question. The Russians have more 216 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: bodies to throw at this and more willingness to throw 217 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: the bodies at it. Which brings us now to the Europeans. 218 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: You see the summit Trump and Putin. Your argument is 219 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: nothing concrete comes out of that. Putin's already renegging on that. 220 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: That's a real issue for how one could could think 221 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: that makes Donald Trump look the president of the United States. 222 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: But here come the European leaders. Trump that meets with 223 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: Vladimir Zlenski. Then you've got this whole group of people 224 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: who are hanging out, and you've got Georgia Maloney there 225 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: of Italy looking so bored with the whole dang thing. 226 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: Can we just get on with destroying these Russians already? 227 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: And it's always a lit look that she's presenting. Talk 228 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: to me about what it is the Europeans wanted out 229 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: of that meeting, What you think they got out. 230 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: Of the meeting and where they're going next. 231 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 4: Well, I think the European leaders thought that Trump actually 232 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 4: had a better deal with Putin than what's come about. 233 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 4: I think both French and the British were willing to 234 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: put soldiers on the ground inside Ukraine in order to 235 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 4: reinforce a security agreement. 236 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 3: I think the United States. 237 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 4: Would have provided air cover as well as intel assets 238 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 4: and the supply chain logistics that we're really already doing 239 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 4: right now. So I think that's what the European leaders 240 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 4: thought was going to happen, and this was going to 241 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 4: move forward. They were going to ride Donald Trump's coattails 242 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 4: and thinking that that was going to be successful. I 243 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 4: couldn't blame in them. I think there was no other 244 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 4: way to do that. But go back to what I 245 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 4: said before about reliance. The Germans are reliant on Russia 246 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 4: for energy, and since they've outsourced the core competency of 247 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: their country. They really can't all of a sudden become 248 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 4: adversarial to Russia. I mean, until they get to the 249 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 4: point where they're not buying salt from Russia. It doesn't 250 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: it really doesn't matter if Vladimir Putin knows this, and 251 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 4: it gets back to that other leverage of soft power 252 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 4: that Latimer Putin also knows he owns. If Donald Trump 253 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 4: decides to get with Europe and implement crippling sanctions on Russia, 254 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 4: they still might not matter because Russia has on its 255 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 4: side the Chinese and now the Indians with over a 256 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 4: billion people each there that still rely on Russia gas 257 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 4: and fuel. So Europe can do certain things economically. But 258 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 4: Europe thought they were going to get away with just 259 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 4: providing troops and a security posture and not have to 260 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: have their economies inflicted. Germany would be the hardest. Germany 261 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 4: would have to figure out how to replace Russian energy 262 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 4: that it currently buys from it, and it would be 263 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 4: a significant hardship to Germany. 264 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: The question is whether or not the German chancellor would 265 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: be willing to do that. 266 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: So this makes things a little more dire. 267 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: Talking to Major Mike Leons retired to United States Army 268 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: military analyst. You had the story in the Wall Street 269 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: Journal this past week about how China and India are 270 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: more aligned, and I said, I don't know exactly how 271 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: dangerous I see this. They've always they share borders. There's 272 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: always been some conversation there. But anytime you know two 273 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: point four billion people to the extent to the extent 274 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: it's still two point four billion get together, you always 275 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: have to be aware of this. So the way you're 276 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: kind of putting this together is kind of saying that 277 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: there is now this real realignment, which it is Europe 278 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: and the United States versus Russia, China, and now India. 279 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: In that conversation, I don't think India has shown itself 280 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: to be well, we're with the Chinese and forget America. 281 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: Mody is certainly the Prime Minister sees the value of 282 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: Russian oil and says, we have a young population, a 283 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: hungry population that's sick and tired of being poor. We're 284 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: going to take all the cheap energy we can, and 285 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: we're not interested in whether or not you're happy with 286 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: the United States. 287 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: We have to do what we have to do for us. 288 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: I think that much is very true, But I don't 289 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: see this as India now all of a sudden having 290 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: a trust of the Communist Chinese. They have to know 291 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: that that's an issue for them in the future. So 292 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: if you're now the United States and it's now you 293 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: and Europe trying to create this peace deal with Ukraine, 294 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: how does it not end up with a peacekeeping force 295 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: on the ground to the east of Kiev. 296 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 3: It doesn't. 297 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 4: It wouldn't be enforceable if it wasn't the case. And 298 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 4: in particular land mask that Vladimir Putin now wants also 299 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 4: that he hasn't even captured yet. He's only captured, not 300 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 4: all of the Donbass region that he wants. And if 301 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 4: you look at the Nepro River, and if you can 302 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 4: look at from a military perspective, he's looking for more 303 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 4: land masks that would give him a straight shot to 304 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 4: keieve in five or ten years if there wasn't these 305 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 4: security if it wasn't troops on the ground there defending 306 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 4: that border. You know, Trump tried carrots, I think first 307 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 4: with India. Now he's reverted to sticks with the high 308 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 4: tariffs and the like. From an economic perspective, and again 309 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: the question is whether or not they'll they'll stick, and 310 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: whether or not they'll impact. 311 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: In the short run. 312 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 4: I think Putin knows that anything economically will take a 313 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 4: longer time, take much. 314 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: To implement. 315 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 4: What the United States would like to do should have 316 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 4: been done ten months ago, twelve months ago in order 317 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 4: to have it impactful now when it's time to do 318 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: the negotiations. 319 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: That's Major Mike Lyons, retired United States Army military analysts. 320 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: I've got more with him coming up because the situation 321 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: with Russian and Ukraine, one should ask if Russia is 322 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: not going to stop, if Ukraine won't give up land, 323 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: if Europe is not gonna get involved. I mean, you 324 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: could take the machinations anyway you want. Is there a 325 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: moment where it's not our problem anymore? And what does 326 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: it mean if it's. 327 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: Not our problem? 328 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: Because there's even a bigger geopolitical conversation at play here 329 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: when talking about China and India. 330 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: Keep it here. I'm Tony Katz. 331 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: This is Tony Katz today, continuing the conversation with Major 332 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: Mike Lyons. I'm Tony Katz. The show is Tony Katz today. 333 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: You are fantastic for being here. Find everything at Tony 334 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: Katz dot com t o Nykatz Tony Katz dot com 335 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: in this conversation about the summit between Trump and Putin 336 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: in Anchorage and what did it result in? Well, result 337 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: in the conversation with Lenski, result in the conversation of 338 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: a meeting with European leaders, and now a couple days later, 339 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: basically a week later, Russia hasn't stopped. Your missiles are 340 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: hitting us back businesses in Ukraine. There's no lessening of 341 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: what's happening. So again a concert reminder that you cannot 342 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: trust Vladimir Putin. But the question that we now have 343 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: to ask ourselves is can you get this war to stop? 344 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: Talking to Major Mike Lyons, retired United States Army West 345 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: Point Graduate military analyst, let's continue this conversation about the sanctions. 346 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: It was former Vice President Mike Pence saying the Senate 347 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: should be voting on and approving those secondary sanctions so 348 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: the President can use them as he sees fit. 349 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: But in the end, this is a question of can 350 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 2: you get this war to stop? 351 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: The people who have along been on the side of 352 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: why do we care are now going to be reinforced 353 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: to this idea of why do we care? It's their wards, 354 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: their problem, pay no attention to it. 355 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: So let's start there. 356 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: Why do or why should Americans care about what happens 357 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: to Ukraine regarding the invasion from Russia. 358 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: Well, we should care. The question is to what extent 359 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 4: should we care? Okay, and we can provide treasure, and 360 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: we can provide assistance to Ukraine that transcends again blankets 361 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 4: and communication radios that the Obama administration did. And we 362 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 4: can pour all the weapons we can, you know, offensive weapons, 363 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 4: We can do that, but we don't want to get 364 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 4: into a situation of matching off to another nuclear power. 365 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 4: We wouldn't want that to happen. Look, Russia has lost 366 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 4: a million casualties since this has started, which is unthinkable, 367 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 4: more casualties, you know, than you know, ten times Vietnam. 368 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 4: I mean, the numbers are just incredible what they've lost, 369 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 4: and they can to continue to look to do that. 370 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 4: So if Europe and the United States does pour weapons 371 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 4: into Ukraine, it's possible that Ukraine could at least make 372 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 4: a stalemate and make sure Russia recognizes that they won't 373 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 4: win this thing on the ground, they won't accomplish their 374 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 4: military goals. I think also there's an undercurrent to think 375 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 4: that perhaps something will happen inside of Russia. I wouldn't 376 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 4: bet on that. I would necessarily say that that was 377 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 4: a good plan, But at some point the Russian people 378 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 4: could also decide that they've had enough. In the Russian 379 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 4: rest of the oligarchs that are losing money, that are 380 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 4: being attacked. I mean, you're starting to see Ukraine hit 381 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 4: Russian facilities, oil facilities and some of their infrastructure. 382 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 3: That is starting to make an impact. 383 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 4: And if they had more weapons that they introduced another 384 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 4: weapon today at long range missile today that they're manufacturing. 385 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 4: What Ukraine has done for itself has been fair. It's 386 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 4: been nothing short than amazing from their country, and from 387 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 4: what's going on, I think there's a lot kind of 388 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 4: like I'll make it like Israel. There's a lot of 389 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 4: support coming in from the United States, I'm sure on 390 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 4: the down low, but they're still willing to fight. So 391 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 4: if they're still willing to fight, we should give them 392 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 4: the resources to do that. 393 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: Talking to Major Mike Lyons, retired to United States Army 394 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: military analyst, I'm going to go back to this conversation 395 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: about Europe and that Europe wants to thwart Russia where 396 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: they are have the buffer between them and Slovakia and 397 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: Poland them between them and anything that could bring about 398 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: an Article five challenge to that grouping of NATO. 399 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 2: And attack on one as an attack on all. 400 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: And I think it is a clear argument that the 401 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: Europeans understand that Russia is an expansion of power before 402 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: we move any forward in this any further in this 403 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: conversation major lions, yes or no, is Russia under Vladimir 404 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: Putin and expansionist power. 405 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 4: They are to the extent where they would like to 406 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 4: restore the former USSR. We saw again Lavrov come to 407 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 4: that meeting with the USSR sweatshirt. That's their mentality, That's 408 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 4: Vladimir Putin's in his genetics and his genes. 409 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 3: That's what he wants to do. 410 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 4: That's where he envisions Russia as a world power, not 411 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 4: just the land mass occurrence he currently owns Ukraine is 412 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 4: the jewel of that for many reasons going back in history. 413 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 4: But to think they're going to lat be about and 414 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 4: those other Baltic countries and pull In and the like 415 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 4: is just not feasible. But as a minimum, while he's alive, 416 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 4: he still wants like to have Ukraine, so we can at. 417 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: Least now put that part aside. We know that this 418 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: is factual, we know that this is true. The Europeans 419 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: need to thwart this. It's the Europeans who need to say, 420 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: you know what, We're going to point guns at Russian 421 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: skulls and if we have to pull the trigger, we will. 422 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: That's the only way the Russians are going to stop. 423 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: It's the only way this is going to happen. Donald 424 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: Trump has clearly no interest in that. But Donald Trump 425 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: more so has no interest in being played. And certainly 426 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: one can argue with these latest moves in the last 427 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: twenty four to thirty six hours by Vladimir it's like, listen, 428 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: they want to work a deal to okay, they are 429 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: not interested in a deal. Where, in your view, based 430 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: on your contact, your information, your thoughts, where does that 431 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: leave the United States in this saying you know what 432 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: we tried, moving on or you know what we tried. 433 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 2: Putin thinks he's tough. Let us show you what is 434 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 2: Which way is this going? 435 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: I don't think Trump is there yet, but he could 436 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 3: get there. 437 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 4: I do believe that that's the case, and I think 438 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 4: he recognizes that the Germans for example, would should have 439 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 4: had the largest military in order to thwart this and 440 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 4: to be the greatest threat to Russia. The actual military 441 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 4: on the ground that is the greatest threat to Russia 442 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 4: is Turkey, that's in Europe. But the problem obviously with 443 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 4: Turkey is there aligned with Russia. They had bought US, 444 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 4: say four hundred missiles from them. I think Erdawan has 445 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: moved somewhat away from Russia. If you noticed, they were 446 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 4: not the meeting. Also absent from the meeting. I thought 447 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 4: the Canadians were absent, and as were the polls. I 448 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 4: think I think, you know, having a Polish leader there 449 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: would have been an interesting concept because of the amount 450 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 4: of support they already provide Ukraine. But until until Vladimir 451 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 4: Putin feels that to your point that the European nations 452 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 4: can put together a formidable military or security agreement without 453 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: relying on NATO, because I think one of the issues 454 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 4: is if they do. If let's say German and French 455 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 4: troops decide that they're part of the security arrangement and 456 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 4: the Russians do decide to attack them, I think I 457 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 4: think one of the stipulations will be that will not 458 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 4: constitute an Article five attack and it will not necessarily 459 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 4: trigger a full NATO response. 460 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back. 461 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: We are talking about a president that put his entire 462 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: reputation and very much so, on the line here that 463 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: wanting this piece deal is important. 464 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 2: It was the campaign promise. 465 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: It would have ended in day one, and you had 466 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin at the summit saying Donald Trump is right, 467 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: this would never have happened if Trump was president, which 468 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: is a kind of a throwaway line. It doesn't actually 469 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: mean anything. There's no there there when he says it. 470 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: It's just platitude for valuelessness. But Trump put himself on 471 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: the line, and this is Putin saying, yeah, I don't 472 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: care to think that nothing comes from that is certainly 473 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: and I think an impossible way to view it. So 474 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: that would lead me to question how Vladimir Putin is 475 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: viewing this, thinking that, eh, what's he gonna do to me. 476 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: I've got China, which I am possibly a vassal state 477 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: of already. Maybe I've got India because I'm selling them oil. 478 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: As you brought up earlier, they can't. 479 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: Do anything to me. I'm gonna take all this land. 480 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll take a little bit more and that's just 481 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: the way it is. And then I'll stop for a 482 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: couple of years, and then I'll start back up again. 483 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's. 484 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: Got to be a response from a Trump White House 485 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: to that real possibility being the actual reality. 486 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, And from what people I know in the NSC 487 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 4: and from what I hear Marco Rubio say, they're going 488 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 4: to have a hard line stance against Ukraine, which means 489 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 4: they're going to pour weapons in first. They're not going to, 490 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 4: you know, Donald Trump could force Ukraine to somewhat acquiesce more, 491 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: give into this, give into what Putin wants in order 492 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 4: just to stop the war. 493 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: From his perspective, I don't think that will happen. 494 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 4: I think there's enough people around Trump right now that 495 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 4: say we've got to if Ukraine is willing to fight, 496 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 4: we have to then continue to support them, continue to 497 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 4: reinforce what they're doing, give them offensive weapons, let them go. 498 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 4: Let's take the risk of Russia not expanding this any further. 499 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 4: You look at what happened the Date and accords, put 500 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 4: more pressure on them militarily and make them recognize they 501 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 4: won't accomplish their goals in the military. 502 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: I want to go back again to this conversation about Russia, China, India. 503 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: I talk about a reference that well sreet journal piece 504 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: we have discussed before you on this show, that Russia 505 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: could already be a vassal state of China, unable to 506 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: basically function if it wasn't for Chinese money or whatever 507 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: that may be coming that we don't we don't know about. 508 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: Is there a real consideration about world realignment and how 509 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: does the United. 510 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: States deal with that? 511 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: Meaning is Ukraine really the first thing that we should 512 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: be focused on, or like what's his name, Elbridge, Oh, gosh, 513 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, Colby. 514 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: Thank you. 515 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: Everything needs to be focused on China every step of 516 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: the way. When China says we're really looking forward to 517 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: reuniting and having reunification with Taiwan, that that is absolutely 518 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: a threat. 519 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: We know that Senator Todd Young of Indiana was in the. 520 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: Philippines soon after two Chinese vessels crashed going after a 521 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: Filipino a vessel, navy vessel, that there's real movement happening 522 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: in the South China Sea in the Philippines, seeing the 523 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: Straits of Taiwan that has China on the move to 524 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: further their hegemonic power. Is Ukraine the right focus or 525 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: should it be Listen, We'll keep sending you patriots and 526 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: some bullets, but we have to deal with the China 527 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: threat now that not only works against our allies Japan, 528 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: of l Beans works regarding how we have free trade 529 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: and free navigable seas, but we got to keep China 530 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: from partnering up with India because India needs to know 531 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: who's actually in charge. 532 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 4: Well, in the old days, we had a doctor and 533 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 4: that said we could fight a two and a half 534 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 4: front war. We could fight at war both in Germany, 535 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 4: in Europe and then as well as the Pacific, and 536 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 4: then fight smaller conflicts and other locations during the Clinton administration. 537 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 4: It was in early Bush administrations that was ratcheted down 538 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 4: to really one and a half because of the cost, 539 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 4: and then as they realigned our army, for example, taking 540 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 4: five hundred thousand soldiers out of active duty spaces and 541 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 4: the like. So today the focus really is only that 542 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 4: one and a half. So I think the question is 543 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 4: I'm sure guys like Pete Hegseth know that, and Elbridge 544 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 4: Colby know that, and so they want that one to 545 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 4: be focused into the Pacific and not necessarily into China 546 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 4: and not necessarily into Europe. But I think part of 547 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 4: the Pentagon budget is to make that point five back 548 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 4: to a one so you have the ability to fight 549 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 4: a two front war if we had to. 550 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 3: Could I think we could do both. 551 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 4: I do think that our focus in Ukraine has been 552 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 4: more or less an open checkbook, helping American defense contractors 553 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 4: and helping them in that regard. 554 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: But our strategic focus still has to be the Pacific. 555 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 4: It has to be what's going on there, getting enough 556 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 4: naval assets in that place, is creating enough of the 557 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 4: terms for the Chinese. Trump's already on the hook saying 558 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 4: Jiji Ping said he would not attack Taiwan while he's president, 559 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 4: so he seems to be confident with that. But again 560 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: the question is whether or not the Chinese leader is 561 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 4: going to run out of patients as well at some 562 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 4: point before. 563 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: I let you go. Is peace possible between Ukraine and Russia? 564 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 4: Not? 565 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: You know, Hey, they're gonna have to give up this 566 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: or someone else is gonna have to give up that. 567 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: Is it possible to see the Russians stop their advance 568 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: on Ukrainian territory in the year twenty twenty five Tony. 569 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 570 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 4: I don't think there's enough leverage on Vladimir Putin to 571 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 4: do that, and he will continue to fight and will 572 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 4: continue to throw his citizenships into the meat grinder of Ukraine. 573 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 4: Ukraine will continue to block and stop them. This is 574 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 4: now up to a point where there will be a 575 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 4: clear winner and a clear loser. And at this point, 576 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 4: right now, if if Ukraine decides to agree what Vladimir 577 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 4: Putin wants to do, Ukraine will be the clear loser. 578 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 4: And until the European nations decide to help and make 579 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 4: sure that doesn't be the case. They're given the military 580 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 4: assets you need to continue to go as long as 581 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 4: he wants to go. 582 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: I don't take him that in this year. 583 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to me the European nations are totally 584 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: fine with Ukraine giving up some land as long as 585 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: it continues to be the buffer. It seems to me 586 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: that these European nations understand that eventually there's going to 587 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: be a peacekeeping force east of Kiev, and it's going 588 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: to be them, and the United States may provide some 589 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: mayor of support, which creates a whole nother issue. I 590 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think anybody's leaving the region, but 591 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: I am with you about where the Russians are at. 592 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: Certainly after seeing what happened in the last thirty six hours, 593 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: Major Mike Lions retired the United States Army military. 594 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 2: Analyst m Aj. 595 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: Mike Lyons oyons Major Mike Lions on Twitter X follow 596 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: him there. I appreciate you being here more to get 597 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: to I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Kats Today.