1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: The Hammer in Nigel Show. My name is Nigel. Jason 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Hammer is here. We'll go straight to the hotline and 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: bring on a longtime friend of the show, Alex Berenson, 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: a former New York Times journalist author. He was a 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: leading voice against the government over reaction to COVID. You 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: could subscribe to his sub stack Unreported Truths. Alex, could 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: you believe you've been calling this show for six years now? 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: Don't remind me. 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's I. 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: Think the Jets have won one game and all that time. 11 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: We could do a whole segment on the Jets and 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: the Colts, but it was about six years ago this time. 13 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: That just so you know, this is not the only 14 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about today, is you know, 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: six years removed from the United States declaring a national 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: emergency for COVID because most people are so casual about 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: COVID now that's almost a non issue. But I'm still 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: curious as to your thoughts. I want to get to 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: a book of yours. It's become relevant again called tell 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: your children, but go I mean, just generally, you're thirty 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: thousand foot six years later COVID and your star was 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: kind of on the rise in terms of exposing some 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: of the data and what was really happening and the 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: vaccines and the mandates. Your overall thoughts, Yeah. 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: I mean I think, you know, I think most people 26 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: have forgotten it, right, you know, it's like the epidemic 27 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: that never was. I mean, in part that's because and 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: I still ask people this sometimes, I said, do you 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: know anyone one who died from COVID? And also do 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: you know anyone who died from COVID who wasn't either 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: you know, really old, really sick, or really really obese, 32 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: And you more often than not, actually the answer to 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: even the first question is no, and the answer the 34 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: second question is almost always no. So so I think 35 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: people are you know, a lot of people are a 36 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: little bit ashamed of how frightened they got, and they 37 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: sort of feel like, you know, they were kind of 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: sold a billic goods in twenty twenty and they don't 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: really want to think about it, right. So, and there's 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: a few people, some of my you know, uh, you know, 41 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: my core audience still uh, you know, it's still angry 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: about the lockdowns and the vaccine mandates. But most people, 43 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: you know, most of Americans I personally did not get 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: the m R and a vaccine or any COVID vaccine, 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: but most people got at least, you know, the first 46 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: you know, first two shots, and I think they'd rather 47 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: just forget about the whole thing. And that's sort of 48 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: where we are. But you do see it clearly that 49 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: there's a group of people who they may not specifically 50 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: mention COVID, but they do feel you know, aggravated and 51 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 2: angry at the public health you know, bureaucracy, and that 52 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: hasn't gone away, and that's had you know, bigger repercussion. 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: And so so, like I said, most people are so 54 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 3: casual about COVID. Now, could we have had this same 55 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: attitude theoretically in twenty twenty if not for the government 56 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 3: Overrea or maybe at the very least in twenty twenty 57 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: it taken reasonable precautions given that I don't know if 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: I'm speaking out of my butt here, but that first 59 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: strain was more virulent than other strains following it. 60 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 2: Right, The first thing was more virulent than omicron, which 61 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: you know, which really started in late twenty twenty one 62 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: early twenty twenty two. Everything that happened is everybody has 63 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: gotten COVID, whether they're vaccinated or not, yes, so they 64 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: have some immunity to it. And the third thing, you know, 65 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: and this will This is something that almost nobody realizes 66 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: is assuming that COVID did leak from a lab, which 67 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: it probably did, whether or not it was intentionally created 68 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: or not, as different than whether or not it leaked. 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: When it leaked, it was very so because it had 70 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: been made to lab, it was kind of adapted to 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: human you know, the human body quite well. And so 72 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: what's happened in the last six years has actually become 73 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: less virulent than it was and spreads more easily. So yeah, 74 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: we've all we've all forgotten about it. Look, was COVID scary? 75 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: Uh in the beginning, Yeah, it was scary. But but 76 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: if people if people had said, if the public health 77 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 2: establishments had said, hey, you know, you may get you 78 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: may get sick from this, but you're not you're not 79 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: you're not going to die from it. If you're your 80 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: kids aren't going to die from your kids aren't going 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: to die from it, and we want you to go 82 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: on with your life, the public response would have been 83 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: very different. And that's what they should have said. Uh, 84 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: even as early as you know, I would say mid 85 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: to late March, people who were paying attention could see 86 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: what the data really said, and they said the opposite. 87 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: They scared the heck out of everybody, and they put 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: themselves in a box where they couldn't really climb down 89 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: very easily. And then they had to pretend that this 90 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: vaccine was the miracle cure, which it wasn't. And so 91 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: a lot of people wound up feeling whipsawed by all 92 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: of that, and they will never trust the public health 93 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: in quite the same way. 94 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: And are people like you look the data and that's 95 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: how you know. Part of your success and part of 96 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: the reason why I started paying attention to you is like, 97 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, reading your post and making me actually feel 98 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: better there in the beginning. Once I'd like like, literally, 99 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: that's why we had you on the show, and that's 100 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: why we reached out of like, Okay, this guy is 101 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: looking and putting the truth out there. But modern day, 102 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 1: at twenty twenty six, are people taking the COVID vaccine? 103 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: Are they no'll fall off the face? 104 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all off the face, even people over sixty 105 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: five and seventy five. It's only a minority of people. 106 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: And what's selling to me actually is that the public 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: health people are still fighting about this. So there's this 108 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: big there's a lawsuit which this very liberal central judge 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: actually basically just said that that RFK Junior and the 110 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: Trump administration cannot drop the recommendations that people and I 111 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: mean children and young adults get the COVID vaccine. Wow, 112 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: nobody's getting it anyway, but there's still this recommendation out 113 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: there that they do get it. And and Kennedy totally 114 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: reasonably said this is stupid. You know, other countries aren't 115 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: recommending this, and we're going to drop this, and this 116 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: judge just said, no, you can't do that. So you 117 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: know that that that's that's a real problem. 118 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: Alex Barnson, as our guest, real quick, you mentioned a lawsuit, 119 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: then we'll pivot here, but you the status of your 120 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: lawsuit against the federal government in terms of their involvement 121 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: in censoring you off Twitter. 122 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: So that's now at the Second Circuit, which is in 123 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: New York Federal Court, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. Frankly, 124 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: I'm anticipating that we're probably going to have to go 125 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court. Whether they'll hear it or not, 126 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, but we are going to pursue this, 127 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, to the end of our legal remedies. 128 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: That was the That was the tweet that you put 129 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: out that got you kicked off Twitter. You settled with Twitter, 130 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: right or did you win the lass? 131 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: Okay? I settled with them in what was effectively a win. 132 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: This was before Elon took over, because a federal judge 133 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: looked at what Twitter had done to me and said, hey, 134 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: you know, you shouldn't have done this to this guy. 135 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: He's got a he's got a pretty good claim here. 136 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: Twitter then settled that they gave me some documents showing 137 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: that the Biden White House had tried to lean on 138 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: them and have leaned on them along with Sizer, by 139 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: the way, along with two or along with the senior 140 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: official Pfizer had pushed them to kick me off. So 141 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: that led me to sue the Biden administration and this 142 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: Pfizer official name Scott Gottlieb. And right now that lawsuit 143 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: is still you know, I'm still pursuing it. To my 144 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: great disappointment, the Trump administration hasn't settled with me. They're 145 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: continuing to defend the Biden administration on this and I 146 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: and I don't really know what to make of that, 147 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: because it's sort of like, look, guys, you said you 148 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: don't like social media censorship. This is about social media censorship. 149 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: Why don't you just like settle with me and admit 150 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,119 Speaker 2: that the Biden administration shouldn't have done this. They haven't 151 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: done that, so I'm continuing to go forward. It's weird. 152 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: Final thing with Alex Barons and authors journalists worked for 153 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote spy novels. Before you were 154 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: the COVID guy, you were kind of the anti weed guy, 155 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and there's a book out there that's kind of had 156 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: sort of a renaissance. Tell your children the truth about marijuana, 157 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: mental illness, ill illness and violence. You wrote that a 158 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: number of years ago. We talked about a study on 159 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: our show the other day that just was out of Australia. 160 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: Researchers analyzing dozens of controlled trials published between nineteen eighty 161 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: and last year found that pot does not work to 162 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: reduce symptoms like anxiety, depression, post traumatic stress disorder. Yet 163 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: one in floor people in the United States and Canada 164 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: used marijuana for quote medicinal purposes. 165 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: What say you so? I mean, I saw you talking 166 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: about this. And here's the thing. If you want to, 167 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: if you're a snow conning get high. Look, it's not 168 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: my thing, but like, okay, people do that, you know. 169 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: They people drink, people, saw people use other drugs. You 170 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: know some people like you know, I'm getting high. But 171 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: but don't pretend that this is medicine. Okay, it's not medicine. 172 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: It's not it's not good for you long term, and specifically, 173 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: if you're using it for mental health conditions, you're making 174 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: a big mistake because, because you know, anxiety in particular, 175 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: if you smoke, you may temporarily feel better and feel 176 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: your anxiety relief, just like if you drink a little 177 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: or if you take you know, valium, But guess what, 178 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: the effects of that drug will wear off and you're 179 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: going to come back feeling worse and more anxious than 180 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: you did. And this is why it's so easy to 181 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: get addicted to to cannabis, to Benzo's, you know, to 182 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 2: alcohol too. If you're using it in this way, like, 183 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 2: know what you're using your drug for. You want to 184 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: get high, you want to you want to like have 185 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: a good time with your friends, Okay, but know that 186 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: it's not medicine. 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: It makes you paranoid. It makes me paranoid, at least 188 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: that's why I don't use it. Now, what about like 189 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: bringing it back here to Indiana. They tried to crack 190 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: down on Delta eight and the other THHC products that 191 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: are kind of in a gray area legally here in Indiana. 192 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: Does do you feel the same way about Delta eight 193 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: and some of those other Yeah, I. 194 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: Mean this stuff again, it's not being sold, you know. 195 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: I mean people may be pretending it's medicine, but it's 196 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: all essentially designed to hit the cannabinoid receptors in your 197 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: brain and get you high. Whether it's Delta eight, whether 198 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: it's Telta nine, there's something called AHHC. All this stuff 199 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: is just it's hitting the same part of your brain, 200 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's it's getting you high headed. 201 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: On vacation with the family next week Disney World, I'm 202 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: going to be out by the pool while the kids 203 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: are running around the park. And I wanted to start 204 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: a spy novel the John Wells. John Wells is your guy, right. 205 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: Wells is my guy. The first one is The Faithful Sky, 206 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: came out in two thousand and six and unfortunately it 207 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: fell pretty relevant today. Actually, the second one involves Iran 208 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: and China. 209 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: Wow okay, oh yeah, So start with the first one, 210 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: then yeah, and. 211 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: Then the mate of mine. If you like it, you 212 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: got you got twelve of them in all. 213 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: And then, of course, especially if you are listening to 214 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,359 Speaker 1: have kids that are dabbling in marijuana, tell your children 215 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: the truth about marijuana, mental illness and violence from Alex Berenson. 216 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: His substack is called Unreported Truths. Subscribe to it, I do, Alex. 217 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: Have a great weekend, man. We'll talk to you soon. 218 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: How fun of Disney. Talk to you soon. 219 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: It's the Hammer and Nigel Show.