1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: The show about gun ranks, gun safety, and responsible gun 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: ownership with This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralph 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: on night three WYPC. 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: And welcome back to the Gun Guy Show here on 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: ninety three WYBC. I thrilled you're with us and say, well, 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: let's get right to the phone lines and on our 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: VP hotline we have mister Barry Todd, and I've been 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: talking about mister Todd here for a while. But first 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: of all, welcome to the Gun Guy Show, sir. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me guy. I appreciate it 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 3: absolutely so. 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: I read your book and was completely fascinated by your story, 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: especially as someone who's trained in self defense for a 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: long time and someone who was an attorney for forty 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: plus years and defense self defense cases completely fascinating to me. 16 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: But I just want to start with you're someone who 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: certainly familiar with firearms. Firearms twenty plus years in the military, 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: including as an army ranger reaching the rank of captain. 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: That certainly led you to be extremely comfortable, certainly with 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 2: your ability to handle a firearm. 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 4: Yes, sir, those you know, when you're around firearms your 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 4: whole life, they become part of you. They're not they're 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 4: not something that you're afraid of. 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So twenty fourteen, you're out to an evening 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: of entertainment, including singing a little karaoke. And by the way, 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: I tried my way by Sinatra one time, as you 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: apparently did, and I dropped the ball pretty hard on that. 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: I'm hoping you did a better version of that than 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: I did. 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 4: But my wife said that's the only song I could 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 4: ever say. 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 3: Well, I can't. 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: I can't even sing that one. But which is just 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: to describe what led to the encounter that resulted in 35 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: you feeling the need to involve a firearm. What happened? 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: Just what were the events that evening that caused this 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: whole scenario to unfold? 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 4: Well, simply guy for your listeners. Here, my wife and 39 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 4: I were out with four other retired military couples for dinner, drinks, 40 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: a little bit of dancing. We usually linked up about 41 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 4: once a month, we all many of us serve together. 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 4: And throughout the evening we met this young this young man, 43 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 4: and he became very aggressive toward the ladies. He ended 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 4: up threatening me and my wife. Then I was viciously 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 4: attacked not by one man, but two twice one of 46 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 4: them wielding a knife. 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: And when the police. 48 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 4: Showed up, literally they did zero investigation. They totally skipped 49 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 4: it do process and charged me with a tempted murder 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: or to count evaggravated assault within five or six hours. 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 4: And there were one hundred and sixty hours worth of 52 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 4: video camera videos from sixteen different cameras that they never 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 4: looked at before they charged me. 54 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: And we're going to get more into this, and by 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: the way, I hope you have a little time to 56 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: spend with us, because this is going to take certainly 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: more than one segment to kind of pull all the 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 2: layers off this onion. But you were in the bar. 59 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: Things got a little tense with this guy even threatening 60 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: inside the bar. He was making gestures, insinuations towards your wife. 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: At one point you left the bar, I believe to 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: just go get some chew right, some Copenhagen or something 63 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: like out of your vehicle. Correct, you left the bar. 64 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: I sure did. 65 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 4: He threatened me twice in the bar, and both times 66 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 4: I told him the same thing. I am too old 67 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: to get in a bar room flight. This is not happening, 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 4: YEA walk away exactly. 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: So you left to go to your vehicle just to 70 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: get some chew. But on the way back, now suddenly 71 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: you're confronted by this guy. And by the way, what 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: in terms of physicality is this guy bigger, younger, stronger. 73 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: Where how's this guy compared to you? What are you 74 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: faced with? Because as I understand it, he was actually 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 2: preventing you from going back in the bar as you 76 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: try to re enter to go rejoin your wife. 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the pictures you saw in there. He towered 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 4: over me. He outweighed me by one hundred pounds. He 79 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 4: was about four or five inches taller than me, and 80 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 4: both both of the guys were so. 81 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: He won't let you back in the bar, and he 82 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: at one point he said something I won't use his 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: language on the radio, but signifying that that that he 84 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 2: fully planned to spend the rest of evening with your 85 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: wife and wasn't going to allow you even back in 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: the bar. Where did it go from there? 87 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 3: At that point? 88 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 4: That's and he had already assaulted me, me headfirst into 89 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 4: cinderblock wall and punched me. At that point, when he 90 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: threatened my wife, I said, be advised, I'm armed. 91 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: Now when you said you're armed, were you carrying a gun? 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: At that moment. 93 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: No, in Arizona, you don't have to. 94 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry, you don't have to what. 95 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 3: You don't have to have the gun on you at 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 3: that time. 97 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: I understood. So what happened then? You said, be advised, 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: I am armed, even though you didn't actually have a 99 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: gun in your immediate possession. 100 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 3: What happened, correct? 101 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: He said, go get your f and gun, and I said, okay, 102 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 4: And I proceeded to walk the forty forty five feet 103 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 4: to my vehicle, secured my firearm, just the way the 104 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 4: laws of Arizona teach you to do when you go 105 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 4: through their CCW training. I had it down on my side. 106 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 4: When I went to re enter the establishment. He was 107 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: standing off to the right, right along the edge of 108 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: the door, and I stopped short because not only would 109 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 4: my CCW training, but more so in my military training, 110 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 4: you never crossed a danger area exposing your back to 111 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: somebody that's already attacked you or that is threatening you. 112 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 4: That's the worst thing in the world. 113 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 2: You do exactly, So, you got your gun in your 114 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: hand sort of down or along. 115 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: Your leg, correct, on my right leg. 116 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: Okay, And so what happened then? 117 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: I stopped short of him. I pointed at him, and 118 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 4: I said, I'm going in there getting my wife and 119 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: my belongings, and I'm leaving. Before I could even get 120 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: my arm down, he attacked me. 121 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: So he essentially said, damn the torpedoes to your gun. Right, 122 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 2: didn't much care that you had a gun. I'm assuming 123 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: there were some alcohol involved at this point. 124 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: Well, he says he couldn't remember anything that he blacked out. 125 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: Oh so blackout was. 126 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 4: The only statement. Yet he was blackout drunk, he said, 127 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: the last thing he remembers was playing darks. Well, if 128 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 4: you watch all the videos, he stopped playing darts about 129 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 4: forty five minutes before he attacked me. 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: Wow, so he attacked you, and he's got a buddy 131 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: there outside the bar with him. Apparently true too, right, 132 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: and it actually attacks you, including with a knife, correct, 133 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: So what happened? 134 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 4: And he even admitted to the police that he had 135 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 4: a knife, but he was never charged. And that's because 136 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 4: the police never looked at the videos. 137 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: So all you wanted to do was get back in 138 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: the bar rejoin your wife. You're obviously concerned about your wife. 139 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: She's been threatened by this huge drunk guy. You're now 140 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: in what a fight for your life outside the bar. Correct, yes, 141 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 2: at that point. 142 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 3: Yes. 143 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 4: When he attacked me the second time, he fell into 144 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 4: the doorway, and as I came up off of him, 145 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: his buddy I fell forward on him my left and 146 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 4: he was trying to grab hold of my gun hand 147 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 4: and finally he let go. And then when I started 148 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 4: to come up, thinking it was over with, his buddy 149 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 4: with a knife attacked me from behind and pulled me down, 150 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 4: and then he jumped me right back on top of me. 151 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: So that now they're trying to get the gun from me. 152 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: Okay, so you're fighting for the gun. What then happens? 153 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 4: Well, he wasn't very smart. I mean, the guy was 154 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 4: really dumb. He had my forearm and he was squeezing 155 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: it with all his strength. He actually broke my arm. 156 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 4: He squosed it. He squeezed it so hard a caused 157 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 4: a what do they call that a hairline fracture? He 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 4: actually broke the bones in my right forearm. And I 159 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 4: just finally looked at him because at that point I 160 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 4: knew I wasn't gonna let him let them have the gun. 161 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 4: This guy's got a knife. I'm like, I just looked 162 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: at him, and dead in his eyes, I said this 163 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 4: is gonna suck for both of us. 164 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: And the gun said that out loud. 165 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: Yes, his nose was literally two inches from mine when 166 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 4: I said that too, And then what happened. And then 167 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 4: when he took the three fifty seven round and the 168 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 4: stomach came out of his shoulder, he stood up, and 169 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 4: then he staggered away and fell down in the middle 170 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 4: of a parking lot. 171 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what, Barry. Let's if you don't mind, 172 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: And I hope you have more time, because we are 173 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: not even grazing the surface on this. I need to 174 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: take a break. We're going to come back for a 175 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: short segment. I really would like to keep you for 176 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 2: a while because one, I want to get into the 177 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: details of your book and where people can find this 178 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 2: entire story, but also I want to talk about the 179 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: entire legal battle. I really hope you have some more 180 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: time to stick with us here this evening. 181 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 3: I do. 182 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 4: I can give you, how's about thirty or forty up 183 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 4: to thirty or forty five minutes. 184 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it's going to be the best 185 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: thirty or forty five minutes we've had here on The 186 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: Gun Guy Show for a long damn time. So I'll 187 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: tell you what. Let's take a break right now. We'll 188 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: be right back with Barry Todd, author of standrew Ground, 189 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: one Man's Self defense Nightmare, when we come back here 190 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 2: on the Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC. 191 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: Your rights, with your responsibilities and your guns. This is 192 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on WYBC. 193 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: That's Guy Ralford on the Gun Guy Show on ninety 194 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: three WYBC. So got here on the IP hotline. We've 195 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: got Barry Todd, who's involved in a self defense shooting 196 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: you Arizona twenty fourteen. So, Barry, you've just pulled the trigger. 197 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: The guy who'd been attacking you is now hurt, stood up, 198 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: but then keels over. You're hurt. You've got a broken 199 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: forearm and various other last rations, contusions and injuries from 200 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: having struggled with this big, huge, drunk idiot. Well what happens. 201 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 4: That's when my friends actually heard what was going on outside, and. 202 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: They all rushed out, and uh the uh the. 203 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: Bouncer at that point was trying to take charge. He 204 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 4: wasn't really a bouncer. 205 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: More of a I D. Car checker. 206 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 4: He tells him to take My wife tells me go ahead. 207 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 4: And let go of the gun. I'm here, my friends 208 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 4: were there. We let the I let go of the gun. 209 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 4: The bouncer uh uh had somebody take it over unloaded. 210 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 4: Then the police I stood up. 211 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: She goes what happened? I said, Uh, he wouldn't stop 212 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 3: attacking me, and. 213 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: Very and forgive me. We we've got to go to 214 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: break the top of the hour. Was way late getting 215 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,599 Speaker 2: into this, but we're gonna we have to take a 216 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: break here at the top of the hour and and 217 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: get some advertising in. When you come back after this 218 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: break to the top of the Hour, I want to 219 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 2: talk about when you first had any doubt that you 220 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: were completely legally justified and that there was even a 221 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: possibility you're actually going to be prosecuted for having clearly 222 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 2: defended yourself with your firearm. And thanks so much for 223 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: your patience for sticking around right now we got to 224 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 2: go into a break top of the hour. Guy Ralford 225 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 2: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC. 226 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of 227 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: a free state, the right of the people to keep 228 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the 229 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy A boom 230 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom boom 231 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: boom bang bang bo Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC, 232 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: and welcome. 233 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: Back for our number two of the Gun Guys Show 234 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: here on ninety three WYBC. I gotta tell you that's 235 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: going to be the longest break at the top of 236 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: an hour that we've ever been through here in the 237 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: ten years I've been doing a Gun Guys Show, because 238 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: we haven't even raised the surface of the story of 239 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: Barry Todd, author of Andrew Ground One Man's Self Defense Nightmare. 240 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: And all I wanted to do is get it at a substance, 241 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: And like I said, we've just barely touched on it. 242 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: But Barry's on the line, and so just to recount 243 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: for anybody just joining us, violent encounter. A huge, drunk, 244 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: aggressive person is trying to prevent Barry from just re 245 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: entering the restaurant where he's just been in the evening 246 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: with his family, his his his wife and friends, threatens him, 247 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: attacks him. Barry at one point gets his gun from 248 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: the vehicle, comes back. There's a struggle over the gun 249 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: and the shot is discharged. Barry's attacker and by the way, 250 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: another guy joined the fight with a knife, also attacking Barry. 251 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: Broke Barry's arm caused various other injuries. Now the bad 252 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: guy is down and and Barry. I hope I that's 253 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: a brief summary, But I hope I did that accurately. 254 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: What happens next when when's the first indication that you 255 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 2: thought you might actually have an illegal jeopardy arising from 256 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: all of this. 257 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 4: Well, I knew the law well enough that I knew 258 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 4: I was going to have to go down and be questioned, 259 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 4: so I didn't really think anything of it. They did 260 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: handcuff me immediately. They put me in the back. 261 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 3: Of a patrol car. 262 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 4: Then they took me down and put me in an 263 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 4: interview room. Everybody was very pleasant. It wasn't no big deal. 264 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 4: But then when I started realizing there was going to 265 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 4: be trouble was after the second interview. At first, I 266 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 4: wasn't going to say anything, because that's what everybody says 267 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 4: to do. But whenever I had talked to the police before, 268 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 4: you know, if you knew you were in the right, 269 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 4: you know they they're usually reasonable people. 270 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: Well let's talk about that, because reading your book, at 271 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: one point you very specifically said listen, I'm not saying anything. 272 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: This is to the police without my attorney. President and 273 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: they said, okay, interview's over. You thought about that for 274 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: a while, and then you said, now tell you what. 275 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: I've got a clear story to tell, and then decided 276 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: to make a statement without an attorney present. Is that 277 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: the way that went. 278 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, because I knew the self defense laws. I've been 279 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 4: trained in Arizona. I've been with my wife and I 280 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: during that time period. We practice all the time, and 281 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 4: we'd go to other take additional training, and I knew 282 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: the laws. And now, unfortunately, what we didn't find out 283 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 4: till much later was the police and the prosecutors didn't 284 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 4: know the newer Arizona laws that have been passed in 285 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,479 Speaker 4: the past over the past decade prior to my shooting. 286 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: Which you actually know more about than they did because 287 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: of your CCW class. 288 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: Correct. Correct. 289 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, I even knew more than 290 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 4: my attorney did. 291 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 292 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: Well, I want to talk about that too, because that 293 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: hit me like a ton of bricks when I read 294 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: that in your book. But I want talk about I 295 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: want to focus on that because I teach a class 296 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: on the legal issues around the use of force. 297 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: And self defense. 298 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: I've been teaching it for a long long time, and 299 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: I actually have a slide that I put up and 300 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: it says aftermath, and then the slide after that says, 301 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: I'd be willing to cooperate fully and give you a 302 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: complete statement after my attorney is present and I've had 303 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: a chance to calm down. And people will challenge me 304 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: on that and say, hold on, if I didn't do 305 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: anything wrong, why should I be concerned about telling the 306 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: police what happened? Because I know I'm in the right. 307 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: I know what I did was legal. Looking back where 308 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: you first said nope, I'm not going to say anything 309 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 2: without my attorney. President then you made a decision to 310 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: make a statement. Is there anything about that you do 311 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: differently today? 312 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 4: I probably wouldn't have made a statement, but I don't 313 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 4: think it would have mattered anyway. 314 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: Okay you think because the prosecutors were gonna end up 315 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: charging you anyway. 316 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 4: Well, the police made the decision that night, And as 317 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 4: you read and when you read the book from the 318 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 4: preliminary hearing, the police officer, the lead detective, finally admitted 319 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: to it, after actually two years of saying no, he 320 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 4: did not have any predetermined notion. My attorney, being the 321 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 4: brilliant man he was, finally backed him into the corner 322 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 4: and got him to admit on the stand that yes 323 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 4: he did. 324 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's let's and I kind of jumped into 325 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: the one issue about making a statement or not, just 326 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 2: because it's something that I teach. But so the police 327 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: made the decision to write this up essentially and to 328 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: initiate charges against you. And what happened from that point 329 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: going forward? 330 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: Do you want to know about that night when they 331 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: charged me? Yeah? Or do you want me to go forward? 332 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: What happened? 333 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: So? 334 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 2: When did you realize you were actually being charge with 335 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: the crome? 336 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 4: Well, so I went back into the interview. When we 337 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 4: sat down, I told him everything that happened, and then 338 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 4: he walked out. They brought me a cup of coffee, 339 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 4: and he walked out. He came back in probably ten 340 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 4: fifteen minutes later. He said, read this and sign it. 341 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 4: And I said, I shared with the earlier detective. I 342 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 4: don't have my glasses on me. 343 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: What is it? He says, it's a. 344 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 4: Chart seat and I said a chart sheet for what? 345 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: And that's when he said attempted murder to count evaggravated assault, 346 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: and I said, I told you through of everything, I 347 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 4: told you it was strictly self defense. His exact words 348 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 4: to me were, we have the whole thing on video. 349 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 4: I said, great, have you looked at the video? And 350 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 4: his exact words back to me were not yet. 351 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: And. 352 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: Charges and they haven't even looked at the video yet. 353 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And I looked at him, and my old 354 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 4: Ranger instructor days from the nineteen eighties came out and 355 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 4: I proceeded to literally verbally abuse his lack of intelligence. 356 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine there were a couple of f bombs 357 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: in there. 358 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: Somewhere there were. Yeah. 359 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 4: I started it out, was, oh, you're a real intelligent 360 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 4: life for the oxygen is just slowing to your brain, 361 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 4: and it just continued to slow from there. 362 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: And listen and we can chuckle about that. But this 363 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 2: is the beginning of what a two year nightmare. 364 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, twenty six months and seventeen days. 365 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so just on the criminal side. 366 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well exactly, and we'll talk more about that too. 367 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: So you're charged with a crime, and as you found 368 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: out later, the whole matter was actually submitted to a 369 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: grand jury there in Arizona. 370 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, sure was six days after the incident, it 371 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 4: was submitted to a grand jury, and again they never 372 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 4: showed the video. 373 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: They at that point they hadn't even reviewed the video. 374 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 2: And people need to understand. And I explained this to 375 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: people all the time, and I've had many cases over 376 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: the four decades I've been an attorney where the grand 377 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: juries involved. People don't understand that the grand jury only 378 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: hears one side of the story. Now, the prosecutors, under 379 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 2: some ethical responsibilities, are supposed to present both evidence of 380 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: guilt as well as evidence suggesting innocence, But prosecutors don't 381 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: generally do that in my experience, they tend to present 382 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: a completely one sided story, and the grand jury then 383 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: they don't decide guilt or innocence, but they decide whether 384 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 2: that was probable cause to pursue criminal charges against you. 385 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: And that became a real focus of your case, didn't it? 386 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 3: Oh? It did? 387 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 4: It became the total focus of it. It was unbelievable, 388 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 4: and you hit the nail on the head guy. The 389 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 4: people don't realize that a prosecutor when he first takes 390 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 4: up a case, before he takes it to a grand jury. 391 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 4: Technically the legal term for it of his title is 392 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 4: called Minister of Justice. That's supposed to be his title. 393 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 4: He's supposed to be wearing an entirely different hat than 394 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 4: the prosecutor hat. He's supposed to look at all the evidence, 395 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 4: present all the evidence to the grand jury fully, whether 396 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 4: it exonerates the potential person to be charged or where 397 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 4: they're done. And he's supposed to present everything and then 398 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 4: let the chips fall where they may. What we And 399 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 4: that's why my attorney, the brilliant man he was, he 400 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 4: passed away in at the end of twenty twenty three, 401 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 4: but he was the number two chair on the Miranda 402 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: rights case that went through the Supreme Court. Brilliant man, 403 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 4: Michael Kimmer. And he goes, well, Berry, our goal is 404 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 4: to not Ford to go to trial. So they didn't 405 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 4: we know they had the videos, they didn't show it. 406 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 4: So the first thing we're going to do is say 407 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 4: send it back to the grand jury. And so he 408 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 4: did that and it worked, and so the prosecution because 409 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 4: he didn't even show he didn't even present all any 410 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 4: He presented the basic affirmative defense self defense law. And 411 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 4: I don't know if your listeners know the difference. I 412 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 4: heard you talking earlier, the difference between affirmative defense and 413 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 4: justification defense. 414 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was saying. One of the preliminary issues in 415 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: self defense, always depending on jurisdiction you're in, is who 416 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: has the burden of proof? In other words, is it 417 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: an affirmative defense where the defendant has to a person 418 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 2: being investigated has to prove they did act in self defense, 419 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: or is it a matter of what we call the 420 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: state's prima fage case, meaning they have to prove you 421 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: didn't act in self defense. And that's fundamentally important. And 422 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: you actually on that point, because you've been through your 423 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: CCW class, actually had to educate your own attorney on that. 424 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 4: Oh exactly, I did, because that changed ten years earlier 425 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 4: before my case happened. The actual in Arizona. For your listeners, 426 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 4: this is now a justification defense state. The moment anybody 427 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 4: who had to use a weapon in any type of incident, 428 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 4: if at the moment they say it was self defense 429 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 4: by Arizona law, they're not supposed to charge you. They 430 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 4: are supposed to prove that. They're not supposed to charge 431 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 4: you until the prosecution proves that it wasn't self defense. 432 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: In terms of the grand jury in this case, making 433 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: that determination. 434 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: Correct yes, they're not exactly. 435 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: They're not even supposed to charge you. Because what you're 436 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 4: saying when you call it, when you do that for 437 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 4: your listeners, you're saying, yes, I did shoot him, right, 438 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 4: You're not denying that you didn't shoot the person. What 439 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 4: you're doing, though, is saying I was justified in accordance 440 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 4: with the laws of the State of Arizona in my case. 441 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, Barry, we have to take one more break, 442 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: can you Can you come back with for one more 443 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 2: segment because there's so much more I want to talk 444 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 2: to you about I so much. I appreciate you indulging 445 00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 2: us with your time. 446 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 4: I want to plug my book real quick before you 447 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 4: let me go and ground book dot com. You didn't 448 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 4: get it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or Drance Publishing. 449 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, but I want you to come back for one 450 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: more segment if you have the time, because I really 451 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: had more to talk to you about. All right, and 452 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: we'll talk again about where people can find your book. 453 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 2: Right now, we're taking a quick break, And says Guy 454 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC. 455 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Well you've got a gun guy, Guy Relfrid on WYPC. 456 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: PAM, Welcome back. We're back with Barry Todd, author of 457 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: standrew Ground, One Man's Self Defense Nightmare. So so, Barry, okay, 458 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: So the prosecutor submits a completely one sided version of 459 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 2: the case to the grand jury and doesn't even show that. 460 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: This is mind boggling to me as a defense attorney 461 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 2: that they would submit grand jury evidence and not even 462 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: give them the video of the shooting. 463 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it just blew our minds. 464 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 2: Much much less the video of everything going on in 465 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: the bar, including this guy confronting you, threatening you verbally 466 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 2: and physically assaulting you, all before the actual events that 467 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 2: led to him getting shot. How's the grand jury supposed 468 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: to make a decision on probable cause without seeing both 469 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: sides of the story? 470 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: Correct? 471 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 4: That's exactly right, and that's why the first time he 472 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 4: agreed to it. And we even took the videos that 473 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 4: we received from the police and turned them over to 474 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 4: one of the FBI's tops video forensics experts, Brian Newmeister. 475 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 4: He took all the cameras that referenced of the sixteen, 476 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 4: there were four of them that picked up the entire 477 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 4: incident inside and outside the establishment, and he went ahead 478 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 4: and ran them and spliced them together like a movie. 479 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 3: It's unbelievable. And we gave that to him before the 480 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: second grand jury brought the prosecutor. 481 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, we gave it to the prosecutor before the second 482 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 4: grand jury, and he still didn't show it all. 483 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: And at this point you have to wonder. I mean, yeah, 484 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 2: this guy's role in the grand jury proceeding is supposed 485 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: to be the Minister of Justice, right yep. Obviously he 486 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 2: was acting as anything. But what do you think, what 487 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: do you think the agenda was here? Do you think 488 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: this guy just has political ambitions and he thought it 489 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: would help him to try to put you in jail? 490 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: Or what do you think the motivation was? 491 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: Well, whenever you. 492 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 4: Take somebody and you you before you've looked at the 493 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: most important evidence, and you plaster them all over the 494 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 4: southwestern United States newspapers and everything else, some crazy retired 495 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 4: ranger comes into bar and shoots a guy in the head. 496 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 4: I mean, it was it was horrible. I mean, they 497 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 4: don't want to let it go because they didn't have 498 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 4: egg on their face, but that's exactly what happened. 499 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: And you know, the role of a prosecutor and and 500 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: I've heard many, many prosecutors over a lot of years 501 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: say this in open court, that listen, my job is 502 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: just not to prove guilt. My job is presenting truth 503 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: throughout the whole judicial proceeding. And that's supposed to give 504 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: them an air of credibility. But that's only if it's true, 505 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: and that's only if they act this way. And the 506 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 2: thing that struck me that the two things that just 507 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: leapt out of me as someone who's done this for 508 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: a long time, is when when a you, because you'd 509 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 2: learned Arizona law through your your concealed carry class, had 510 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: to update your lawyer on who actually had the burden 511 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: of proof of proving or disproving self defense. But the 512 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: second one was, and this just screamed at me, when 513 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: when you your lawyer and the prosecutor are arguing over 514 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 2: what should or shouldn't have been presented to the grand jury, 515 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: and the prosecutor actually said it came out of his mouth, 516 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: his lips, he said, I don't care what the law says. 517 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 3: That's correct. 518 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 4: And we got that on, we got that on an 519 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 4: actual recording. 520 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 2: How you're supposed to be the minister of truth, minister 521 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 2: of justice if you don't actually care what the controlling 522 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: law of the jurisdiction says. That hit me like a 523 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 2: ton of bricks. 524 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and that's what one of the people that 525 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 4: was in the room even wrote an Affidavid saying that's 526 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 4: what he heard. Even then we had it on the recording. 527 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 4: It's unbelievable, it is, he told my attorney, I don't care. 528 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 4: If he was following the law, he could have come 529 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 4: back with a gun up is but. 530 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, no, I remember that too, so how much? 531 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: And listen it always breaks my heart and I'll be 532 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 2: talking to my own clients and I'll say, listen, this 533 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: is such an incredibly unfair process because the rest of us, 534 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 2: the whole criminal justice system, prosecutors, grand jurors, maybe a 535 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: criminal jury at some point if it goes to trial. Uh, 536 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: your defense team, your investigators, everybody else has weeks, months, 537 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 2: years to dissect everything that happened in a matter of 538 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: a few minutes. And you had to make instantaneous decisions, 539 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: sometimes in a millisecond, including whether to pull a trigger 540 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: or not. And it's so unfair because everyone, everybody else 541 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: gets to analyze this in retrospect with the benefit of hindsight, 542 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: you had to make the decision in an instant and 543 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: realizing that. Of course, looking back on it, for instance, 544 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 2: how big of a deal was it? How big of 545 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: a deal did the prosecutor make it that when you 546 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: left the bar the first time you didn't have your 547 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: gun in your immediate possession, then having the confrontation with 548 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: this drunken, huge idiot at the entrance to the bar 549 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: where you just tried to go in and rejoin your wife, 550 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 2: that you actually then went to your vehicle and retrieved 551 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: your gun and came back. Did the prosecutor make Did 552 00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: he make a big deal out of that? 553 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, he sure did. He hated that he. 554 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 4: Could have he could have walked down the road. Well, 555 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 4: that walk would have been a quarter to half a 556 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 4: mile on a dirt road or a two lane road 557 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 4: with no sidewalks, forty five miles an hour, no street lights, 558 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 4: to a gas station way down there to call my 559 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 4: wife because my cell phone and everything was inside my wallet. 560 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 4: And also my wife was a dd that night. She 561 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 4: wasn't drinking right, And that's that's how we operate a 562 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 4: lot of times. 563 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 3: So that was. 564 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 4: It was just it's abhorred how you were the whole 565 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 4: system has been turned upside down. And to be honest 566 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 4: with the guy, I think it's happened over the past 567 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 4: forty fifty years. I'll tell you a story. In nineteen 568 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 4: sixty six, my brother was eight years old. 569 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: His dad woke. 570 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: Him up at two o'clock in the morning outside Fort Bragg, 571 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 4: North Carolina, said, come out here on the porch. And 572 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 4: there it was a dead guy on the porch there, 573 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 4: and I had a big bullet hole in his chest. 574 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 4: And he said, grab that hose over there and wash 575 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 4: the blood off the porch. Griff comes up the driveway, 576 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 4: walks up on the porch and goes, what do we 577 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 4: have here? And Ralph's dad said to him, goes, hey, 578 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 4: ask him and pointed to the dead band. He goes, 579 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 4: I can't, he's dead. He goes, exactly. So everything I 580 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 4: want to tell you this happened, is what happened. Don't 581 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 4: try to add anything to it or create a crime 582 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 4: that doesn't exist. That man was breaking into my house. 583 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 4: I have my seven children and my wife in here, 584 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 4: and I put two holes in his chest. 585 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: Any questions and that was the end of that. That 586 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 3: was the end of it. 587 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 4: But you do that nowadays, and all of a sudden 588 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 4: they have all this stuff, and then they put you 589 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 4: through this ringer called pre trial services. You love this 590 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 4: one guy, pre trial services for your listeners out there. 591 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 4: That's probation. Okay, they took away my guns, they took 592 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 4: away my alcohol. 593 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: Is that being convicted of anything? This is all pending 594 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: with your with your case pending. 595 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 4: Never been convicted of anything in my life in a 596 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 4: criminal trial, and no felony is nothing. And outside of 597 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 4: some traffic tickets, they turn around and I have to 598 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 4: get permission to travel. I'm the CEO of a national company. 599 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 4: My wife owned a real estate business, and so I 600 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 4: couldn't do anything. 601 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 3: I had to ask. 602 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 4: Permission to go to my father's eightieth birthday, unbelievable. And 603 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 4: I had to ask permission to go to my own 604 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 4: daughter's wedding. So and then they turn around and they 605 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 4: put you on a every thirty days they want to 606 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: check out, give you an unannounced year analysis and blood test. 607 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 4: What I'm not a drugie. I've never had these issues. 608 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 4: And then the biggest thing is you got to go 609 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 4: in every two weeks and have sit in front of 610 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 4: some new probation officer to the probation office and they 611 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 4: give you the newest guy and he tries to cycle 612 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 4: analyze you. I'm a decorated, disabled veteran. I own a 613 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 4: national company, all right, I've seen things that could make 614 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 4: a billy goat fuke. And you're going to come in 615 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 4: here and try to cycle analyze me to see how 616 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 4: I'm doing absurd. 617 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: And I want to reemphasize this is while you're case spending, 618 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: you haven't been convicted of anything. They're treating you like 619 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 2: you're on probation after conviction for a serious crime. Well, listen, 620 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 2: so you had, even though you had to do some 621 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: education early on, you had obviously a very very good attorney. 622 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 2: And he ends up actually being able to challenge the 623 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: grand jury's determination of probable cause and what's called a 624 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: preliminary hearing, and that it's a little different procedure than 625 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: we have here in Indiana but out there in Arizona, 626 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 2: and it was able to get the judge to make 627 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 2: an independent and the determination of probable cause. That it's 628 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: huge because that would if you went on, this would 629 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: result the dismissal of the charges and you don't have 630 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 2: to actually go to trial where you're the remainder of 631 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 2: your life is in the hands of six or twelve 632 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: people who are going to determine guild or innocence, and 633 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: the judge, by the grace of God and through good lawyering, 634 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 2: and because it was true and substantiated by video and 635 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: all the other evidence, judge determines there never should have 636 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 2: been a determination of probable cause and dismisses the case 637 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: against you. So that's the happy. 638 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 3: Part, correct, Yeah, it is. 639 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 4: But going back to that, the whole point of the 640 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 4: matter is is that the judge literally after the third 641 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 4: grand jury, he got so frustrated with the prosecutor not 642 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 4: showing the videos to the grand juries, he actually went 643 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 4: and looked at the video and made a finding of 644 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 4: fact in a case before it ever went to trial. 645 00:34:59,040 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 3: Wow. 646 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 4: Jorney who was, as I shared earlier, Michael Kimmer at 647 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 4: that point had fifty years of a criminal defense experience. 648 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 4: He said to me, Barry, he goes, Am, I fifty 649 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 4: years are practicing law. I've never seen a judge do that. 650 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 4: He goes that was unbelievable. 651 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 3: And I let me ask you, have. 652 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 4: You ever seen a judge make a finding a fact 653 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 4: before the case goes to drial? 654 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 2: No? No, not less, it's a proceeding that specifically allows 655 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 2: him to do so, which that didn't do. So no, 656 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 2: I agree with that completely. Well, listen, and I don't 657 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: want to ask any two personal information here. But you won. 658 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: That's the great news. And you made some allusions to 659 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 2: this in your book. I mean, just the retainer for 660 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 2: your attorney was one hundred thousand dollars. You had to 661 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: spend ten thousand dollars on a retainer for your investigator 662 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 2: that you had in this case, which yielded great benefits. 663 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: But if you're comfortable answering this question, you were innocent. 664 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 2: A Judge Determan, you should have never even been charged 665 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 2: because there was no probable cause, because that the prosecution 666 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: couldn't rebut your claim of self defense with any competent evidence. 667 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: But you still spent what a couple hundred thousand. 668 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 4: Dollars closer to four hundred thousand on the personal side, 669 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 4: and then through my business it took me another quarter 670 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 4: from me and to clear my name because see, folks, 671 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 4: let me your listeners out there, you are guilty until 672 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 4: proven innocent. 673 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 3: I'm on a national financial. 674 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 4: Advisory firm that the moment I was arrested, it went 675 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 4: on every single disclosure for every business associate, for every 676 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 4: client or everything. It didn't have anything to do with 677 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 4: my with my business, but it had to go on there. 678 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 4: And even after I was cleared and it never went 679 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 4: to trial, the case was dismissed, I had to keep 680 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 4: it on there just the fact that I was charged. 681 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 4: It took me another five years to get the record sealed, 682 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 4: did it off the FBI databases and all the other 683 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 4: police databases throughout the country, because you have to do 684 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 4: those individually. That's just not a one happenstats and that 685 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 4: takes time, and you have to get a judge to 686 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 4: order it, to seal the record, and then to get 687 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 4: it off of all those disclosures. It was an absolute nightmare, 688 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 4: especially when you have people like the State of Florida. 689 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 4: State of Florida, because we were licensed in Florida, says, yeah, 690 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 4: we want you to go down to the court and 691 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 4: get us a copy of every single court document in 692 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 4: your case certified. All right, let me tell you something. 693 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 4: It costs like four dollars per page of certification, and 694 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 4: we had over twenty five hundred gigabytes. Really, the amount 695 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 4: of dollars that we spent on this is astronomical. And 696 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 4: the lessons I learned. Number one, know the laws in 697 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 4: the state where you're carrying, and my wife and I 698 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 4: were licensed in about forty one states. And as soon 699 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 4: as you cross there, get an app on your phone 700 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 4: so you know it. Number two, carry the insurance, carry 701 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 4: good self defense insurance. Number three, don't talk to the police. 702 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 4: Don't give it to them. I don't think it really 703 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: hurt me. But then again, just follow what the lawyers 704 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 4: tell you. You don't say nothing without your lawyer there. And 705 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 4: then number four, and this is the most important. Remember 706 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 4: the attorneys, the private eyes, the expert witnesses. They work 707 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 4: for you, all right. You're the one right in the 708 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 4: check no matter. They're going to give you their opinion 709 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 4: that you do not always have to take it, and 710 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 4: you have to check their work and hold them accountable. 711 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 4: And if they have a problem with that, then you 712 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 4: probably need to fire them in the first place. 713 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 2: I love that as somebody who could be fired if 714 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 2: somebody follows that advice. I still love that advice because 715 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 2: I'm one to stand behind my representation of any client, 716 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 2: and any competent lawyer is going to feel the same way. 717 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 2: So I love that absolutely absolutely love that advice. I'll 718 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 2: tell you what, Barry, We've gone way past the bottom 719 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 2: of the hour. Where can people find your book? I 720 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 2: read it, I was fascinated by it, and I'm somebody 721 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 2: who does this for a living, both on the training 722 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: on self defense as well as as a criminal defense 723 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 2: attorney who handle self defense cases. It was fascinating to 724 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 2: me as a quick read. I loved every minute of 725 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: reading it. Where can people find it? 726 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 3: All? Right? 727 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 4: They can go to our website stand your groundbook dot 728 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 4: Com and on there you can go to you can 729 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 4: order it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or Dorans Publishing, 730 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 4: and folks out there, This money's not going back into 731 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 4: my pocket. All the proceeds are going into foundation that 732 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 4: my wife and my legal team and some other law 733 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 4: enforcement experts have helped us establish so we can help 734 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 4: others who don't have the money. I was blessed because 735 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 4: my wife and I have been blessed by our Lord 736 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 4: Jesus with gifts and being financially successfu. I was blessed 737 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 4: in that way. 738 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 3: But how many people aren't out there? Are not? 739 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 4: I know tons of people across the country that aren't, 740 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 4: and nobody wants to come in and help them with 741 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 4: those resources to be able to have them. Yeah, they 742 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 4: want to all help them afterwards after they found the evidence. 743 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 4: So that way they consume and get a lot of money, 744 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 4: but not a lot of them want to just come 745 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 4: in and say, Okay, we're going to give money to 746 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 4: your defense team. 747 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: Quick question before we let you go. Were there any 748 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,240 Speaker 2: repercussions to this prosecutor? Was this prose we're ever disciplined 749 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 2: in any way? No, and obviously that should have happened. Lastly, 750 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 2: I lied one more question. Were you ever concerned about 751 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 2: this person who was shot after attacking you and you 752 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 2: justifiably shot him, any worries about him suing you for 753 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 2: civil damages? For the interest? 754 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:49,839 Speaker 3: So he did? 755 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 2: Oh he did? 756 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 4: Oh he did five weeks after he was in the hospital. 757 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 4: I didn't get into that in the book because I 758 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 4: wanted to focus on the criminal. I think he did. 759 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 4: Oh he dropped the lawsuit. But that's why you carry 760 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 4: your homeowners insurance and auto. 761 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 3: Insurance or carry insurance. Yeah. 762 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 4: Remember, folks out there, I own a national financial advisory firm. 763 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 4: Your home covers you anywhere in the world for anything 764 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 4: that you do. Accept operating a vehicle, and that's when 765 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 4: your auto insurance comes in. And if you want additional 766 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 4: liability coverage like I had, I had an umbrella that 767 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 4: takes the liability for my owners and my homeowners of 768 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 4: my auto and takes it above that. 769 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 2: I got you listen, we need to leave it there, sir. 770 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 2: I took way more of your time than I said 771 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 2: I would, but this is a fascinating story. I absolutely 772 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 2: commend your book to people. It's called Standard Ground, One 773 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 2: Man's Self Defense Nightmare, author Barry Todd. Find on Amazon. 774 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 2: Find it at Standard Ground, the website that Barry mentioned. 775 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 2: Right now, I got to let you go. Thank you, 776 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 2: sir so much for sharing your story with us here 777 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 2: on the Gun Guy Show. 778 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 4: God bless you and and have a great weekend. 779 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 2: You too, sir. Right now we're taking a break. Guy 780 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 2: Ralford on The Gun Guys Show on ninety three WIBC.