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Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for that. Thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: in here to the studio. Ryan Hetrick from the WABC Newsroom. Ryan,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much. Man, be safe out there yourself. Well was.

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Speaker 2: Short just minutes away from another severe weather update brought

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Speaker 2: to you by Chapman Heating and air Conditioning.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks again to Ryan Hetrick from the newsroom for

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Speaker 1: coming in and updating is on the weather. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: have another update after the first hour, going to the

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Speaker 1: second hour, plus at the bottom of each hour you'll

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Speaker 1: hear from the WABC newsroom as well as the storm

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Speaker 1: desk as you just heard on updates as well. So

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Speaker 1: throughout the Gun Guy Show, we're going to keep you

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Speaker 1: advised on the weather, and I'm sure that'll continue throughout

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Speaker 1: our broadcast schedule here this afternoon. So getting into our

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Speaker 1: normal topic here on the Gun Guy Show, what's going

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Speaker 1: on on the Second Amendment front. I was fascinated to

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Speaker 1: see just this week that a former school resource officer

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Speaker 1: from Uvaldi, Texas, and you remember the horrific school shooting

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Speaker 1: we had in Uvaldi, and one of the reasons it

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Speaker 1: was so tragic, heartbreaking and frankly frustrating to a lot

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Speaker 1: of us is that police were on the scene for

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Speaker 1: a total of what's been consistently reported for a total

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Speaker 1: of seventy seven minutes before they eventually confronted this shooter

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Speaker 1: and ended that shooting, and school kids, school kids and administrators,

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Speaker 1: teachers were getting killed pretty much throughout that entire time.

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Speaker 1: And you've seen the videos of police officers lined up

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Speaker 1: in the hallway, standing around, taking no action, and the

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Speaker 1: most egregious of the failures to act among the various

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Speaker 1: police officers who responded to Uvaldi. And listen, this is

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Speaker 1: not an indictment on law enforcement generally. We've seen many examples, really,

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Speaker 1: even all the way back since columbind of heroic police

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Speaker 1: officers who arrive on scenes of a potential mass shooting,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a school shooting or otherwise, and they, with

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Speaker 1: no hesitation, charged towards the threat, put themselves in harm's

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Speaker 1: way trying to save innocent lives. And so we've absolutely

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Speaker 1: seen the other end of the spectrum. But what happened

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Speaker 1: in Uvaldi is quite different. Who had a school resource

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Speaker 1: officer on scene who stood outside for several minutes, taking

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Speaker 1: no action whatsoever. Then once other responding officers showed up

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Speaker 1: and in fact, once a swat team showed up, the

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Speaker 1: local police chief ordered them to stand down and to

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Speaker 1: do nothing again for a total of something like seventy

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Speaker 1: seven minutes. And I'm trying to imagine, you know, being

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Speaker 1: in that school, hearing the sound of gunshots and the

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Speaker 1: screaming of children and taking no action as a sworn

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Speaker 1: police officer. It's frustrating. And they even inhibited, prevented parents

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Speaker 1: who showed up from taking any actions themselves. Well, that

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Speaker 1: school resource officer was actually put on trial for child

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Speaker 1: abandonment child endangerment and was named in multiple counts of

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Speaker 1: just that. On behalf of multiple I believe that the

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Speaker 1: number was twenty two of the kids that were either

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Speaker 1: murdered or others that were wounded, and he was tried

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Speaker 1: to a jury on those criminal charges. So this is

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Speaker 1: not a civil lawsuit. It's actually twenty nine counts I'm

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Speaker 1: looking now at the lawsuit. Twenty nine counts of child

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Speaker 1: abandonment or endangerment, and those were for twenty one Texans

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Speaker 1: as the school children and teach who were murdered and

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Speaker 1: others who survived their wounds. But twenty nine counts of

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Speaker 1: child abandonment or child endangerment, tried to a jury, and

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Speaker 1: he was found not guilty on all charges. And listen,

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Speaker 1: a jury heard the facts from the witnesses, from the documents,

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Speaker 1: from the videos, heard instructions on the law on what

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Speaker 1: the obligations are or are not of a responding police officer,

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Speaker 1: and applying the law of the facts, decided that this gentleman,

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Speaker 1: Adrian Gonzalez School resource officer Formovaldi, was not guilty of

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Speaker 1: any of the charges fully acquitted him. He stood up,

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Speaker 1: he hugged his lawyer, and they walked out of the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: And he's a totally free man. And it's somewhat ironic.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, Gonzalez is a very very common name with

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Speaker 1: Hispanic origins, but it's somewhat ironic that his name's in

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez because the Supreme Court case from two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five is a case that I cite often and I

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Speaker 1: refer to often for the proposition that a police officer

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Speaker 1: actually has no legal duty to protect private citizens. There

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Speaker 1: is no legal to the Supreme Court ruled exactly so

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Speaker 1: there is no legal duty to protect private citizens such that.

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Speaker 1: And this was the Gonzales versus Castle Rock case from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, such as a lawsuit against police

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Speaker 1: officers who knew about a restraining order protecting a mother

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Speaker 1: and three of her children, who failed to take any

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Speaker 1: action whatsoever to enforce that restraining over resulting in the

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Speaker 1: murder of the woman's three children by her estranged husband.

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Speaker 1: She soon saying they knew about the restraining order. I

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Speaker 1: asked them to enforce the restraining order. I asked them

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Speaker 1: to help me. After having obtained that restraining order, police

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Speaker 1: took no actions whatsoever. As a result, my three children

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Speaker 1: were murdered. And as Supreme Court said, there is no

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Speaker 1: legal duty for a police officer to protect a private citizen.

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Speaker 1: So you have the Supreme Court in castle Rock versus

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez saying that you have a jury applying the law

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Speaker 1: of Texas on child abandonment and child endangerment after a

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Speaker 1: police officer stands around and does absolutely nothing for a

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Speaker 1: substantial period of time as children are murdered, and that

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Speaker 1: jury came back and said, Nope, no responsibility on a

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Speaker 1: criminal side. So the Castle Rock case from the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court says no civil liability and at least as to

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Speaker 1: the facts of the Uvaldi case and the law of

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Speaker 1: Texas no criminal culpability as well. Where does that leave us.

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Speaker 1: That's what we'll go into when we come back in

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Speaker 1: the meantime. Would be glad as always to take your calls.

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Speaker 1: Join the discussion. Three one seven ninety three ninety three.

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Speaker 1: That's three one seven ninety three ninety three Guy Ralford

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Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC Guy

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Speaker 1: Relford for tactical Firearms training. Our most popular classes, Essentials

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Speaker 1: of Indiana Gun Law. And we've got another class coming

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Speaker 1: up March seventh, and that's going to be an Indie

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Speaker 1: Arms conveniently located on the north east side of Indy.

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Speaker 1: It's five hours the most important legal information you need

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Speaker 1: can sign up right online. Just click on upcoming courses

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Speaker 1: at Tactical Dashfirearms dot com. Let's go to Tactical dash

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Speaker 1: Firearms dot com, click on Upcoming Courses. You can sign

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Speaker 1: up right online and we'll see you there on March

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Speaker 1: seventh at Essentials of Indiana Gun Law for Tactical Firearms

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Speaker 1: Training LLC.

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Speaker 2: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of

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Speaker 2: a free state, the right of the people to keep

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Speaker 2: them thereon shall not be infringed. This is the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 2: and this is the gun Guy boom boom boom boom

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Speaker 2: bang bang bang bang boom boom boom boom bang bang

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Speaker 2: ba Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

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Speaker 1: And welcome back to the Gun Guys Show here on

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Speaker 1: ninety three WIBC. We're glad you're with us on this

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Speaker 1: snowy afternoon and evening. Thanks again to Ryan Hetrick from

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Speaker 1: the WIBC newsroom for coming in and updating us. You'll

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Speaker 1: get additional updates at the half hour and at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of next hour on exactly what's going on the roadways.

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Speaker 1: What we expect to see is part of the weather.

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Speaker 1: So you can keep it tuned right here and not

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Speaker 1: only catch the Gun Guys Show as you always can

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Speaker 1: here on Saturdays five to seven, but also stay updated

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Speaker 1: on the weather, so critically important when we have these

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Speaker 1: kinds of weather events coming through. But before the break,

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Speaker 1: I was talking about not only how this school resource

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Speaker 1: officer from Texas Adrian Gonzalez was found not guilty twenty

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Speaker 1: nine counts of child abandonment and child endangerment resulting from

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Speaker 1: his complete inaction and failure to protect really the children

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Speaker 1: that were his responsibility as a school resource officer. They're

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Speaker 1: in Uvaldi, Texas, and a whole lot of people died

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Speaker 1: and listen, it was frustrating again for a lot of

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Speaker 1: us watching the videos of a police officer just standing

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Speaker 1: around like I was talking about, because the protocol for

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Speaker 1: responding to a mass shooting, particularly a school shooter, these

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Speaker 1: protocols have been very very clear for police departments all

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Speaker 1: the way across the country since Columband and if you

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Speaker 1: remember Columband in Colorado, police showed up, they formed a

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Speaker 1: perimeter thinking they had a hostage situation and they were

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Speaker 1: going to negotiate with a hostage, and in the meantime

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Speaker 1: you had school children and murdered inside that school while

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Speaker 1: police maintain their perimeter. And going back and looking at

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Speaker 1: that and looking at the various assessments of what the

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Speaker 1: police did and didn't do, it became very clear that

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Speaker 1: those protocols, those standard operating procedures for police officers had

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Speaker 1: to change, and what any trained police officer all across

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Speaker 1: the country will tell you today is the protocols are

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Speaker 1: very very clear, and that is whoever you are, whether

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Speaker 1: you're the first officer, you're there by yourself, you're there

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Speaker 1: as part of a team of officers responding. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter even if you're totally by yourself. You do not wait.

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Speaker 1: You do not wait for backup. You do not wait

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Speaker 1: to establish a perimeter. You do not wait for the

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Speaker 1: swat team. Whoever shows up takes immediate action. You enter

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Speaker 1: the school or other place where a mass shooting is happening,

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Speaker 1: but certainly a school. You enter the school, you find

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Speaker 1: the threat, You neutralize the threat. Yes, you can step

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Speaker 1: over bleeding victims, as harsh and horrible as that sounds,

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Speaker 1: because the number one factor, the number one issue, the

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Speaker 1: number one battle you're fighting, is not only the bad

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Speaker 1: guy with the gun, but time, because every second that

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Speaker 1: goes by, you're endangering more and more people who have

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Speaker 1: not yet been injured, have not yet been killed, have

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Speaker 1: not yet been shot. And so your directive unquestionably is

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Speaker 1: go straight to the threat, find the threat, neutralize the threat.

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Speaker 1: If that's a dangerous assignment, and it certainly is no

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Speaker 1: question about it then sign up for a different line

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Speaker 1: of work, different profession. This isn't the profession for you.

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Speaker 1: If you're responding to a mass shooting, is something where

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Speaker 1: you don't care to take on the risk of finding

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Speaker 1: the threat, neutralizing the threat. That's just how it works,

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Speaker 1: and that's been clear since Columbun and for all the

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Speaker 1: years to go by, since Kalama, and for the officers

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Speaker 1: in Uvaldi to still stand around and do nothing is

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Speaker 1: in my mind, I just keep putting myself in the

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Speaker 1: shoes of those parents who are standing around, also hearing

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Speaker 1: the gunshots, also hearing the screams. But the combination of

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Speaker 1: looking back on the Castle Rock we Gonzalez Supreme Court case,

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Speaker 1: which again found no legal duty for a police officer

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Speaker 1: to protect a private citizen, even to enforce a restraining

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Speaker 1: order that someone finds against an abusive X so as

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Speaker 1: to protect the person the now estranged wife under that

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Speaker 1: protective order and her children, all of whom were supposed

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Speaker 1: to be protected by that restraining order. No civil liability

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Speaker 1: because no legal duty to protect a private citizen, police

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Speaker 1: officer can stand around and take no action whatsoever, even

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Speaker 1: though that's his job as a school resource officer to

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Speaker 1: protect those children, and staff can take no actions whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: no criminal culpability at least in the case against Adrian

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez in Uvaldi. So where's that leaves I'll tell where

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Speaker 1: it leaves me. And this has never been a doubt

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Speaker 1: in my mind about this. This is something that to

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Speaker 1: me is so patently obvious as to not even be debatable.

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Speaker 1: And what is that that is that this ends the

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Speaker 1: gun controlled debate for me. The states that only issue

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Speaker 1: licenses to carry handguns kicking and screaming, fighting the courts

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Speaker 1: every inch of the way on whether they have to

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Speaker 1: issue licenses or whether there should be a shall issue

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Speaker 1: system of licenses as opposed to a may issue system

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Speaker 1: of licenses. The states out there in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Hawaii,

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Speaker 1: California that keep fighting these battles, keep trying to enforce

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Speaker 1: more and more so called gun free zones. Hawaii trying

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Speaker 1: to say, well, you can't even carry into a business

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Speaker 1: unless you have expressed permission of that business to do so.

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Speaker 1: That's the case is going up to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Courts accepted that case. New York, who's trying to

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Speaker 1: declare everywhere in public basically a so called sensitive place

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Speaker 1: where they can ban firearms. All these jurisdictions, the argument

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Speaker 1: for them to say, we're keeping the public safer by

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Speaker 1: prohibiting private citizens from carrying guns in public, they lose

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Speaker 1: that argument by definition, to the point it doesn't even

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Speaker 1: take a debate. It is so completely obvious they lose

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Speaker 1: that debate because if the police have no legal duty

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Speaker 1: to protect us, if a school source officer whose job

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Speaker 1: it is to protect school children in fact has no

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Speaker 1: legal duty to protect those school children. If the argument

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Speaker 1: is I shouldn't be able to carry a gun in

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Speaker 1: public in some particular location because the police will protect me,

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Speaker 1: when the Supreme Court of the United States has had

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court excuse me. At the Supreme Court the

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Speaker 1: United States has said the police have no legal duty

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Speaker 1: to protect me, Why don't God's er. Should I have

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Speaker 1: to be dependent on the police when they have no

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Speaker 1: duty to do what I'm being prohibited from doing myself.

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Speaker 1: How does that stand up to any logical analysis? It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: If the police have no responsibility, no legal duty to

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Speaker 1: protect me, that I'm my own first responder. I am

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Speaker 1: the person responsible for protecting my family and myself whether

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Speaker 1: in public or at home. And that's one of the

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Speaker 1: precise reasons the Founders, in their infinite wisdom, passed the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment, is because they wanted each citizen here in

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Speaker 1: the United States to not only have the right, but

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Speaker 1: the capacity to be their own first responder, to be

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Speaker 1: responsible for protecting their lives, their homes, their families. And yes,

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Speaker 1: they're liberties. And you put all these things together, and

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Speaker 1: the gun controlled debate is over. As far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: if the police have no responsibility, no legal duty, to

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Speaker 1: protect me, then I must be allowed to protect myself.

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Speaker 1: And any other conclusion given those basic facts, to me,

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Speaker 1: is too ridiculous to even be debate them. And with

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Speaker 1: that word at the bottom of the hour, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take a break. We're gonna take break. We'll have

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Speaker 1: news and another weather update after the Fox News. In addition,

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Speaker 1: as we complete the break here at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the hour. So we're taking a break, give us a call,

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Speaker 1: Join the discussion. Three one seven two three nine ninety

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Speaker 1: three ninety three three one seven two three nine ninety

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Speaker 1: three ninety three. This is Guy Ralford on The Gun

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Speaker 1: Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

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Speaker 2: And on this second Amendment. This is the Gun Guy

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Speaker 2: with Guy Ralford on ninety three DOUBLEBC.

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Speaker 1: And welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

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Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC. Glad you're with us. Keep

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Speaker 1: in mind you can always tune us in on your

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Speaker 1: smart device at home. You can check out the YouTube feed.

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Speaker 1: Go to YouTube look for ninety three WIBC and you'll

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Speaker 1: see The Gun Guy Show. You can participate in the

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Speaker 1: chat feature, as a number of people are right now.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I just got the chat feature to open

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Speaker 1: up for me. I don't know if I was doing

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Speaker 1: something wrong on YouTube, but a lot of people engage

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Speaker 1: in their own conversations there post questions to me or

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Speaker 1: otherwise speaking of questions. While we were on the break

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Speaker 1: at the bottom of the hour, Dave called in. It

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Speaker 1: had an interesting question. He didn't want to go on

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Speaker 1: the air, but Dave asked the question. In school shootings

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Speaker 1: like the one in Texas, parents tried to go in

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Speaker 1: to take care of the situation and were prevented. What

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Speaker 1: are the legal ramifications of that. Well, you know, police

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Speaker 1: are going to be allowed to control a crime scene,

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Speaker 1: including a school shooting, and one of the things they're

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Speaker 1: very likely to do. In fact, I'd be surprised if

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Speaker 1: they ever did anything different is keep civilians from entering

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Speaker 1: the scene. But obviously it added to the frustration and

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Speaker 1: Uvaldi that not only did police do nothing for seventy

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Speaker 1: seven minutes, but parents who arrived and were fully willing

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Speaker 1: to go into the school and engage the shooter and

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Speaker 1: try to save the lives of their kids and the

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Speaker 1: other kids attending school with their kids were prevented from

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Speaker 1: doing so by police. And a logical question, a reasonable

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Speaker 1: question that arises from that is should those parents be

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Speaker 1: able to sue the police officers who prevented them from

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Speaker 1: going in and saving their own children? And logically you

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Speaker 1: would think so. But I got to tell you that

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of immunity floating around when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about law enforcement, and especially law enforcement make discretionary

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Speaker 1: decisions as part of their law enforcement function. For instance,

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Speaker 1: here in Indiana we have the Indiana Torte Claims Act,

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Speaker 1: and there's some version of that, some version of governmental

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Speaker 1: immunity in every state, and the law enforcement function component

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Speaker 1: of tort claims immunity basically says a governmental entity engaged

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Speaker 1: in a law enforcement function, particularly as a result of

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Speaker 1: making discretionary decisions as part of law enforcement, their law

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Speaker 1: enforcement responsibilities are going to have blanket immunities. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be very very hard, if not impossible, to file

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit unless it really involves some intentional act that

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Speaker 1: intentionally injures someone, unlike this, where you can certainly argue

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Speaker 1: with their decision, and you can certainly point out that

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Speaker 1: their decision flies in the face of established doctor and

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Speaker 1: established protocols, again going all the way back to Columbank,

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Speaker 1: and you can say that they were cowards, you can

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Speaker 1: say that they were incompetent, you can call them a

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Speaker 1: lot of things. But I don't think anyone's going to

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Speaker 1: say that the police officers set out to intentionally injured children.

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Speaker 1: So they're very likely, Dave, an answer to your question,

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Speaker 1: going to have immunity for their decisions, including their decisions

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Speaker 1: that a not go in and rescue those kids, which

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Speaker 1: was their job to do and which standard doctrine compelled

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Speaker 1: them to do, but also the acts of keeping parents

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Speaker 1: from doing what they wanted to do, which is ending

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Speaker 1: the situation themselves. Been a great question, Dave. We're glad

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Speaker 1: that you asked it. Join the discussion give us a call.

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Speaker 1: Three one seven ninety three ninety three. That's three one

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Speaker 1: seven ninety three ninety three. Well, I mentioned a Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court case back from two thousand and five Castle Rock

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Speaker 1: versus Gonzalez, WHI establishes there's no legal duty of a

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Speaker 1: police officer in a tort liability context. That is a

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Speaker 1: suit for negligence saying they were negligent for not enforcing

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Speaker 1: a restraining order which resulted in the deaths the murder

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Speaker 1: of a woman's three young children. I mean, a heartbreaking situation.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the Supreme Court has a lot to

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Speaker 1: say and is going to have a lot to say,

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Speaker 1: not only on those issues, but a lot of issues

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Speaker 1: that affect us on Second Amendment issues, and we have

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment cases right now pending before the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: We expect oral argument in the case of Hamani versus Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: That is excuse me, it is not whom Hamani versus

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Speaker 1: versus Hawaii. That is a separate case. I just totally

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Speaker 1: misspoke that it's the Hamani case us versus Hamani. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: I mixed my two Supreme Court cases together. The other

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Speaker 1: one involves actually a Hawaii statute, So I will back

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Speaker 1: up the case of US versus Hamoni actually came out

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Speaker 1: of Texas and this deals with whether or not the

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Speaker 1: law under which this gentleman was convicted. He was convicted

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Speaker 1: of possession of a firearm by a person who's a

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Speaker 1: user of or addicted to any legal drug in this

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Speaker 1: case marijuana and US versus Hamani. We're going to see

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Speaker 1: oral argument in that case later this quarter. But the

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Speaker 1: government has filed its motion for Sir Shirari Circhiri was

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Speaker 1: granted its opening brief. Brief for the petitioner has already

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Speaker 1: been filed. In just Thursday, Hamani's lawyers filed their response,

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Speaker 1: and it's really interesting to read their response to look

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Speaker 1: at what the issues are, what the arguments are around

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Speaker 1: this issue of does the law that prevents people who

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Speaker 1: are users of are addicted to illegal drugs? Is that

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Speaker 1: law constitutional? And there are actually two constitutional arguments at

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Speaker 1: play here. One is a statute can be unconstitutional for vagueness.

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Speaker 1: In other words, under the constitutional protections for due process,

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Speaker 1: is a matter of basic due process that a law

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Speaker 1: can't be so vague as to not adequately inform people

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Speaker 1: what conduct is illegal and what conduct's legal. And in

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Speaker 1: that context, What is the term user of an unlawful

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Speaker 1: drug really mean? What's the definition of user? Does that

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Speaker 1: mean if you've ever used a drug ever once in

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Speaker 1: your lifetime, that makes you a user of an illegal drug?

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Speaker 1: And if so, you can never own a firearm or no,

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Speaker 1: you have to be an habitual user. Well, what exactly

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Speaker 1: constitutes being an habitual user? Or do you have to

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Speaker 1: actually use an illegal drug at the same time time

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Speaker 1: you possess a firearm? What does user of a user

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Speaker 1: of an unlawful drug actually mean? What makes you a

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Speaker 1: user so that you fall within that? And just the

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Speaker 1: term user in and of itself, does that adequately inform

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Speaker 1: anyone of when they can be convicted of that crime

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Speaker 1: and when they cannot or does the government just get

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Speaker 1: to make it up as it goes? And that's the

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Speaker 1: whole constitutional argument, specifically, that a statute is vague excuse me,

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Speaker 1: is unconstitutional for vagueness because it simply doesn't inform a

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Speaker 1: personal reasonable intelligence what conducts legal and what's not. And

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Speaker 1: how can that not be true when we have something

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Speaker 1: so vague as a term user of an unlawful drug.

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Speaker 1: Now again, it says user of her addicted to Harmoni

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Speaker 1: wasn't prosecuted on a theory that he was addicted to marijuana.

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Speaker 1: He was prosecuted and convicted because he admitted to being

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Speaker 1: an occasional user of marijuana, specifically two or three times

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Speaker 1: a week of government. So, well, that's enough, you're a

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Speaker 1: habitual user. Well, the word habitual is not the statute.

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Speaker 1: So they're the argument of unconstitutionality based on vagueness. Then, separately,

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Speaker 1: even if it's not unconstitutionally vague, it violates the Second Amendment. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: it's not consistent with the text, history, and tradition of

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Speaker 1: the enforcement of firearms in the United States going back

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Speaker 1: to the time of the founding, and under that test, text, history,

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Speaker 1: and traditions, as clearly laid out in the Bruin decision

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Speaker 1: from a couple of years ago, the Supreme Court said,

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Speaker 1: that's the test. It's not some risk based analysis. It's

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Speaker 1: not some weighing of governmental interest versus extent of infringement.

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Speaker 1: It's none of that. There's no balancing tests, there's no

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Speaker 1: discussion of layers or or or levels of scrutiny. It's

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Speaker 1: just an analysis of is the regulation consistent with what

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court or excuse me, what the Constitution says,

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Speaker 1: that's text. What's in this case the Second Amendment, say

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Speaker 1: that's the text. And then history and tradition go back

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Speaker 1: to the time of the founding. Can you find an analog?

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Speaker 1: Can you find a law that was deemed to be

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Speaker 1: constitutional and deemed to be consistent with the founder's intent

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Speaker 1: behind the Second Amendment at the time of the founding,

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Speaker 1: to say, well, the founders thought this was okay, this analog,

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Speaker 1: this comparative law or statute, and so this law later on,

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Speaker 1: now in twenty twenty six, must be okay too, because

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Speaker 1: it's consistent with the history and tradition of the regulation

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Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment. Again going back to the time

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Speaker 1: of the founding, Well, what were the laws in place

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Speaker 1: at the time of the founding with respect to depriving

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Speaker 1: someone of their right to possess a firearm based on

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Speaker 1: their use of an intoxicant? And a lot of the

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Speaker 1: laws at issue involved alcohol, as you might guess from

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Speaker 1: the time of the founding. One are the arguments there.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into all of that. We come back for

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a short segment here in the

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Speaker 1: In the next segment after this break, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: We'll take your calls as we always do. Three one

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Speaker 1: seven two nine, ninety three, ninety three, says Guy Ralford

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Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC Guy

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Speaker 1: Rilford for the Law Offices of Guy Rilford. You know

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Speaker 1: one thing we do at the office that we enjoy doing.

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Speaker 1: We do a lot of is restore the Second Amendment

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Speaker 1: rights of people who may have lost them. If you

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Speaker 1: have a felony conviction from quite some time ago, or

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Speaker 1: other conviction that may inhibit your ability to exercise your

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Speaker 1: second a memory right for a lot of folks, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily all, but for a lot of folks, we can

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Speaker 1: restore those rights. Particularly if it's been over eight years

433
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: since a criminal conviction, then a lot of felonies can

434
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: be expunged off to your record. Your rights can be restored.

435
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 1: We'd love to talk to you about that. If that

436
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: may apply to you and whether your rights can be restored.

437
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: You can contact us through the website. Just go to

438
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: Ralford Law dot com and you can click on contact us,

439
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: leave us an email or have the phone number and

440
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: give us a call at the office. During the week.

441
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: It's Relford Law dot Com.

442
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: The show about gun rights, gun safety, and responsible gun ownership.

443
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Relford on ninety

444
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: three WYPC.

445
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

446
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC. I tell you we've only

447
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: got a couple of minutes for this segment. What I

448
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: want to do, I want to invite folks to call

449
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: in and join the show. Is a little different than

450
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: what we typically do here on The Gun Guy Show,

451
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: but I'd love to hear if you're out driving anywhere

452
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: here on the listening area of WIBC, I'd love to

453
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: get a report from you of what you're seeing out

454
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: on the roads. What are the conditions of the interstates

455
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: the side streets as well. If you want to give

456
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: us a call and join the discussion, just telling us

457
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: what you're experiencing, please do that. We'd love to hear

458
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: from you. It's three one seven two three nine ninety

459
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: three ninety three. But I was addressing this case of

460
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: US versus Hamani, and this is really interesting, and like

461
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: I said, just Thursday, the plaintiffs in that case filed

462
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: their response brief and they lay out these two separate

463
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: arguments which I went through one that the statute's unconstitutional

464
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: for vagueness and separately it's unconstitutional as infringing the Second Amendment.

465
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: And what was interesting to me is not only the

466
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: substance of the brief, but in looking at who the

467
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: lawyers were who filed this on behalf of the gun

468
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: owner in this case, HARMANI is you had a number

469
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: of lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union that are

470
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: representing Hamani. And that is noteworthy because I will tell

471
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: you that a lot of us have been very critical

472
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: of the ACLU because the Second Amendment seems to be

473
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: way low on their list of priorities when it comes

474
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: to constitutional rights. And I've always accused ACLU as of

475
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: being a somewhat liberal organization and not joining us in

476
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: the fight for Second Amendment rights. Well, I'll tell you what.

477
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: They apparently have stepped up and are doing exactly the

478
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: right thing in the Harmonic case. I want to give

479
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: them credit for that. So I'll tell you what. We're

480
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: approaching the top of the hours. Time to take a break.

481
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more discussion of the Hamani case.

482
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: What else is going on in the Supreme Court when

483
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: we come back, says Guy Ralford on the Gun Guy

484
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC.

485
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: This is a severe weather alert from the Chapman Heating

486
00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: and air Conditioning Store.

487
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: And welcome back to Sky Ralbert here at ninety three WIBC.

488
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: And before we continue with the Gun Guy Show, Ryan

489
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: Hettrick and ninety three WIBC newsroom has come back into

490
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: the studio here and Ryan, you're here more. You're hearing

491
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: more not only from the National Weather Service, but end

492
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: DOT as well. Right.

493
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, actually, Marion County now has issued the lowest

494
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: level travel advisory that we could be placed under. There

495
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: certain levels, and this one means that routine travel and

496
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: activities may be restricted in certain areas. This was issued

497
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: by the county, not in DOT. And I'm clicking on

498
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: the advisory map right now, and there are several levels

499
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 3: of travel advisory. Again, this is the lowest one. The

500
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: red is the warning that's the highest one. But I

501
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: expect the travel advisories to evolve as the snow falls.

502
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: I mean, in the last couple of hours since you

503
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: got here, what time did you get to the station?

504
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: Four o'clock or something like that, about four you Yeah,

505
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 3: that I can't even see my car out there anymore.

506
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't tell which one is mine because

507
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: there's a bunch of cars color similar to mine. But yeah,

508
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: the roads are getting bad, guy.

509
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: So what do we expect again here into the evening

510
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: and tomorrow? Right? What's the National Weather Service telling this now?

511
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: So the National Weather Service, it's actually upgraded their accumulation

512
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: forecast to anywhere between eight inches to a foot, and

513
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: that can vary based on like blowing and drifting conditions. Now,

514
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: we're not going to get the lake effect like they

515
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: do up in northern Indiana, South Bend and stuff like that.

516
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: But this is going to be a drier, puffier type

517
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: of snow. According to David Beachler at the National Weather

518
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: Service that I talked to, It's not going to be

519
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: the wet, clumpy snow. So you're not going to get

520
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: like the real slippery road conditions. But as the temperatures

521
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 3: drop overnight and if roads are untreated, obviously it's going

522
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: to be problem out if you're driving in it.

523
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what I've seen on that light, powdery snow,

524
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: that can be good as far as shoveling goes, right, sure, Yeah,

525
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: it's a little lighter and easier to shovel, but it's

526
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: bad for drifting and that could be a problem on

527
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: the roadway.

528
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: It's bad for drifting. And here's the problem is, like

529
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: we're under one big system and as Saturday turns into Sunday,

530
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 3: towards Sunday afternoon, it's gonna stop.

531
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: For a little bit.

532
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: But don't be fooled about that, because it's gonna pick

533
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 3: right back up toward the early evening hours and at

534
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: one point we could get an inch an hour and

535
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: that can really overwhelm. I mean, Indiana is just not

536
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: built for heavy snow removal because we don't get.

537
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: A lot of snow here.

538
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: Mean, the average snowfall totals during the wintertime range from

539
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: like twenty five to twenty seven inches. You know, we're

540
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: not built like they are northeast in Buffalo and Philadelphia

541
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: and Boston and places like that.

542
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: So it's gonna looks like a good Saturday night and

543
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Sunday to what stay in tune into ninety three WI

544
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: maybe throw Netflix on at some point. Yeah, Netflix, and.

545
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 3: I had I had dinner plans, but those went out

546
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: the window at about six o'clock when they hit the

547
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: travel advisory.

548
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: So all right, well, hey, thanks to Ryan Hetrick from

549
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: the newsroom for coming in and keeping us advised. We'll

550
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: continue here on ninety three WIBC throughout the evening ended

551
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: tomorrow issuing weather advisories you'll hear from the National Weather

552
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: Service and we'll keep you up to date just as

553
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: much as we possibly can. And we've also posted content

554
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: both from the airport and at the National Weather Service

555
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: on all social media channels Instagram, Facebook, and x We

556
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: have fresh content up and we're going to keep updating.

557
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: We've pushed out a couple of articles in the last

558
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: hour or so, so follow us on those platforms if

559
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 3: you aren't already following us.

560
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thanks again to Ryan Hetrick from the ninety three

561
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: WIBC newsroom. And with that, let's continue with the Gun

562
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: Guy show.

563
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: On this second amendment. This is the Gun Guy with

564
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBZ.

565
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: And welcome back. Thanks again to Ryan Hettrick for joining

566
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: us from the newsroom trying to keep everybody updated on

567
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: the weather conditions, road conditions as much as we possibly can.

568
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: As Ryan mentioned, you want to check out the various

569
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: social media platforms for ninety three WIBC, where the newsroom

570
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: is posting articles and weather updates there as well. And

571
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: with that, let's return to the discussion of this Harmoni case.

572
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: It's US versus Harmani. And the reason that the government

573
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: is named first, by the way we're calling that US

574
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: versus Hamani is the government is actually the one appealing

575
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: the case. The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and the

576
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: District Court in Texas found that the law in question

577
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: here is unconstitutional for violating the Second Amendment. Going up

578
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, Hamani's lawyers are arguing as well

579
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: that it's unconstituted, That is, the state is unconstitutional for

580
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: vagueness and certainly as applied to mister Hamani himself. And

581
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: what do we mean by that? When you make a

582
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: constitutional attack on a statute, you can say that the

583
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: statute is unconstitutional on its face. That is, under any

584
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: circumstance applied to anyone, it's unconstitutional. Based on whatever constitutional

585
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: argument you may have here, there's both vagueness, which is

586
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: a due process argument, and a Second Amendment argument. It's

587
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: not consistent with the text, history, and tradition of regulation

588
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment going back to the time of

589
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: the founding. You can also separately make an argument that

590
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: the statute may not be unconstitutional as to everyone, but

591
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: it's unconstitutional as applied to the particular litigant, the particular

592
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: party at issue in this case, mister Harmioni. And what's

593
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: the difference in those arguments, Well, it can be easier

594
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: to win a case arguing that it's simply unconstitutional based

595
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: or as applied rather to a particular individual, because there

596
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: you're defeating any argument that the government can come in

597
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: and say, well, hold on, if the following circumstances or

598
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: as applied to the following people would be constitutional, then

599
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: it's not unconstitutional on its face. In other words, it's

600
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: not generally unconstitutional if there's any circumstance where it can

601
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: be upheld as being constitutionals. So, for instance, if the

602
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: government were to come in and say, well, hold on,

603
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, we were saying that a person who is

604
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: addicted to or an unlawful or a user of rather

605
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: a user of or addicted to an unlawful drug is

606
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: the wording of the statute. If we're saying that it's

607
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: unlawful for that person to possess a gun, well that

608
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: would apply to someone who's a heroin autic who uses

609
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: heroin every day, who never goes any length of time

610
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: whatsoever without being high on heroin. And it's very clear

611
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: that person's addicted to heroin and a constant user of heroin.

612
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: And we don't want people that are extremely high on

613
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: heroin possessing guns. So it's not vague and it's not

614
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: unconstitutional under the Second Amendment because there are statutes and

615
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: laws going back to the time of the founding, for instance,

616
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: prohibiting people who are intoxicated from possessing firearms while they're intoxicated.

617
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: All right, well, you can find an analog historically. In fact,

618
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: several states had such laws. You can't be drunk and

619
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: in possession of a gun. Then there you go. If

620
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: you can't be drunk, you can't be high on heroin.

621
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: And a person who's high on the heroin all at

622
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: the time, or in a particular case, was high on

623
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: heroin at the time they were found in possession of

624
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: a gun. Statutes neither vague nor unconstitutional under a Second

625
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: Amendment analysis. But when you say, well, okay, that under

626
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: that circumstance, the government may be right, but it's still unconstitutional.

627
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: The statute is still unconstitutional as applied to mister Harmani,

628
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: and what are those facts? First of all, he didn't

629
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: use heroin, he didn't use meth. It wasn't grinding up

630
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: oxy and snorting it. He was an occasional user two

631
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: or three times a week of marijuana, and there was

632
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: no argument or evidence that he was high on marijuana

633
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: at the time he was found in possession of a firearm.

634
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: People or the police rather raided his apartment and found

635
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: both marijuana and a gun. When they questioned him about

636
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: that marijuana, he says, yes, I use marijuana occasionally, two

637
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: or three times a week. No evidence he was high

638
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: on marijuana at the time he was found in possession

639
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: of that gun. So now it was applies applied to him.

640
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: Does that make him a user of or addicted to

641
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: the government didn't even make the argument that he was

642
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: addicted to marijuana. They just said he admitted to being

643
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: a user, okay, a user, but not a user on

644
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: the day he was found in possession of a gun.

645
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: So is he guilty of the crime or not. That's

646
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: where the vagueness argument comes from, and the unconstitutional argument says, again,

647
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: while they're a historical analogs saying intoxicated people shouldn't be

648
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: allowed to possess firearms or laws that said that, And

649
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: there are a couple of laws that talk about habitual drunkards.

650
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: And the government argued, well, if there's a law that

651
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: says a habitual drunkard can't possess firearms, then someone who

652
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: uses marijuana two or three times a week falls within

653
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: the same category. Hold on, the habitual drunkard laws back

654
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: in the day prohibiting firearms possession by those habitual drunkards

655
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: applied to people who routinely and regularly drank to the

656
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: point of severe intoxication as what makes them a drunkard.

657
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: And the government's brief just filed on Thursday makes it really,

658
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: I think an excellent point where it says, hold on,

659
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: if you're going to say that an appropriate analog here

660
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 1: saying someone is a is the same as an habitual

661
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: drunkard is someone who who regularly uses marijuana. And there

662
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: and there's no talk about the amount of marijuana or

663
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: the level of THHG that would possibly be found in

664
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: a person's bloodstream at any particular point in tok. So,

665
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: what you're saying then that the law that says that

666
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: someone who simply has a glass of wine with dinner

667
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: two or three times a week, or a beer with

668
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: a a couple of times a week. A law that

669
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: would prevent those people from possessing a firearm would be constitutional.

670
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: Simply if we having a glass of wine with dinner

671
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: two or three times a week, that would be constitutional

672
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: because of laws historically that prevented quote unquote habitual drunkards

673
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: from possessing gun. Does that make any sense? And the

674
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: point there is those folks habitually abused alcohol. That's what

675
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: made them a habitual drunkard, not that they regularly used alcohol.

676
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: And the Hamani's lawyer's brief actually goes on to say,

677
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: if you were going to say it was constitutional to

678
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: deprive people who simply had the occasional glass of wine

679
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: or beer, that that would have eliminated the ability to

680
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 1: possess firearms from a majority of the people who wrote

681
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: the constitution. I think that was a compelling argument. But

682
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: with that we'll see that the case is set for

683
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: argument probably in March. But since the government's brief was

684
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: just filed yesterday again, I was glad to see the

685
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: ACLU on the brief for mister HARMANI on the side

686
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment. ACLU has not been very active

687
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: in Second Amendment litigation. They seem to love the First Amendment,

688
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: the Fourth Amendment, and about every other amendment the Bill

689
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: of Rights, but they've been very, very quiet, if not hostile,

690
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: towards Second Amendment issues in my experience anyway. And they

691
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: have stepped up and they're on this Hamani case and

692
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: I'm damn glad to see it. I like to see

693
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: ACLU right in their shoulder to shoulder with groups like

694
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: Gun Owners of America and a Second Amendment Foundation and

695
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: NRA and other pro gun rights groups are in there

696
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: fighting at the courtroom to win these battles. We have

697
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: ACLU in there as well. That can only help. And

698
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: with that, we're a little past quarter hour. Take a break.

699
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: This is Guy Ralford on the Gun Guy Show on

700
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: ninety three WIBC. Guy Ralford for Tactical Firearms Training. Our

701
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: most popular classes are Essentials of Indiana Gun Law Class

702
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 1: and we've got another one coming up Saturday, March seventh.

703
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: It's going to be an Indie Arms on the northeast

704
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: side of Indianapolis. It's fifty bucks for an individual, ninety

705
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: five dollars for couples. We'd love to see you there.

706
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: This is five hours of the most important legal information

707
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: you need as an Indiana gun owner. You can sign

708
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: up right online go to Tactical dash Firearms dot com.

709
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: Just click on upcoming courses at Tactical dash Firearms dot Com.

710
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: Your Rights, Your Responsibilities, Your Guns. This is the Gun

711
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WIBC.

712
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: And welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

713
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC. And one of the reasons

714
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: I had a Hawaii Supreme Court case sort of at a

715
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: top of mine and screwed up the name of the

716
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: Hamani case there at the beginning is because I was

717
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: just thinking about the Hawaii case because the oral arguments

718
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court, and this is WO Wolford with

719
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: a W. Wolford versus Lopez oral arguments were just Tuesday

720
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: in the US Supreme Court. And this is the case

721
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 1: involving Hawaii statute that says you cannot carry a gun

722
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: onto private properties such as a business, unless you have

723
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: the prior, express approval and permission of the building owner.

724
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: In other words, the building owner could be completely ambivalent

725
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: to whether you carry a gun there or not. But

726
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: if they haven't expressly given you permission to carry a

727
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: gun there, then you're breaking the law in Hawaii and

728
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: you go to jail. And where does this come from?

729
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: Why did Hawaii pass such a law? Well, Hawaii was

730
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: one of the states that had to go kicking and

731
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: screaming to issue licenses to its own residents to carry

732
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: handguns at all. And then they had a may issue

733
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: that resulted in damn few people ever getting handgun licenses.

734
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: And when the Supreme Court and the Bruined decision threw

735
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 1: that out, they said, listen, there is a constitutionally protected

736
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: right to carry a gun in public. And states that

737
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: have this may issue system where some bureaucrat gets to

738
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: scratch his gin and decide who and doesn't have who

739
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: who does and who doesn't have a compelling enough need

740
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: to carry a gun in public so as to justify

741
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: the issuance of a warrant, that those schemes, those may

742
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: issue schemes that involve some evaluation of need by government officials,

743
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: those are unconstitutional. That's what the Bruin case said. But

744
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: then in some language in the Brewined decision that states

745
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: like New York and Hawaii have jumped all over. The

746
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: Supreme Court said, but by the way, while we're holding

747
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: that there is a right to carry a handgun in

748
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: public for self defense, a defense for your family, we

749
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: are not saying that all restrictions on that right, such

750
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: as prohibitions of guns in sensitive areas, and they mentioned

751
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: schools and the like, that we're not saying those prohibitions

752
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: are also unconstitutional. So they mentioned sensitive places, and I

753
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: get it. There's a federal Gun Free School Zones Act.

754
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: We have a law here in Indiana, and a lot

755
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: of states have a similar act, so you can't have

756
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: a gun on school property, subject to certain exceptions, and

757
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: we have exactly such a law here in Indiana, and

758
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: I spring courts saying, okay, as to those sensitive places

759
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: like schools, we're not saying that those laws are unconstitutional.

760
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: So what did states then like New York? And it

761
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: was their law that was in question and found to

762
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: be unconstitutional in the Brewined decision. That is, their law

763
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: having a establishing a may issue system for issuing licenses

764
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: based on need and sort of a objective evaluation of

765
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: need by government officials. That law was found to be unconstitutional.

766
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: So states like New York read that decision, they said, Aha,

767
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: sensitive places. I know what we'll do. We'll just label

768
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: every damn place a sensitive place. So I started listening,

769
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, listing by statute, by local ordinance or otherwise

770
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: what areas they considered sensitive places where you couldn't carry

771
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: a gun. And what they clearly attempted to do is

772
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: establish so many sensitive places out in public which couldn't

773
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: ever carry your gun in public because you'd eventually and

774
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: are a sensitive place and be subject to arrest. And

775
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: along the same lines, that's exactly what Hawaii did. And

776
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: one of those sensitive places that Hawaii decided to identify

777
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: was any business, privately owned business unless the owner had

778
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: given you prior express consent. So someone sees you in

779
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: a Walmart carrying a gun or a restaurant and that

780
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: a police officer come up to you and say, I

781
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: need to see the prior permission that you obtained from

782
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: the building owner here prior to your entry into these

783
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: premises in possession of a gun. Unless you could come

784
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: across with that prior permission, Boom, you're violating the law.

785
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: You go to jail. Well, that law and whether that

786
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: is consistent with a brewined decision and therefore constitutional was

787
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: argued just Tuesday in Wolford versus Lopez. This is the

788
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: twentieth that you know what twentieth may likely have been Monday,

789
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: now that I think about it. No, No, it was

790
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 1: the nineteenth. Nineteenth was Monday, Tuesday. Tuesday was the twentieth.

791
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: So anyway argued Tuesday, and was interesting when you listen

792
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: to that, you can listen to those arguments live. Is

793
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: it really appeared that all six of the justices which

794
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: would we which we would identify as conservative or quasi conservative,

795
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: which is how I can how I view Chief Justice Robbers,

796
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: but all six of them seemed openly hostile to Hawaii

797
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: in those oral arguments, and and and and I was

798
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: I was glad to see some challenges Justice. Chief Justice

799
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: John Roberts suggested that this case and other recent cases

800
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: coming out of the states like Hawaii, showed Second Amendment

801
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: has unfairly been a disfavored right among those states, and

802
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: he used that term disfavored right. Justice Samuel Alito told

803
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: the lawyer for Hawaii that Hawaii was quote relegating the

804
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: Second Amendment to second to a second class status among

805
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: the Bill of Rights. And we've had multiple justices, including

806
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: Justice Thomas, who's been very vocal on this, come out

807
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, there is no hierarchy of

808
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: rights among the Bill of Rights, among those rights protected

809
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: in the first ten amendments of the United States Constitution,

810
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 1: there is no hierarchy. There are no first class, second class,

811
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: and third class rights among those. They are equal and

812
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: should be treated as equal by the courts. And where

813
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: lower courts do not do so with respect to the

814
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: Second Amendment, those laws should be overturned, those decisions should

815
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: be reversed. And so I was thrilled to see that.

816
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: So I am cautiously optimistic. You know, it's kind of

817
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: an old saying that you don't want to predict the

818
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: outcome based on oral argument. And it is true that

819
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: some judges or in this case, justices will ask questions,

820
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: not necessarily because they're disagreeing with a person, or they

821
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: ultimately will rule against that lawyer that they're questioning, even

822
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: apparently in a hostile manner. Sometimes they're just asking probing questions.

823
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: They want to assert what they think might be the

824
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: strongest arguments against you, and hear what your response is

825
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: not necessarily buying into those arguments. Themselves. So it's an

826
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: old caution among lawyers to always advise their clients and

827
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: others that don't draw too many conclusions from oral argument.

828
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: But sometimes it's pretty clear writing on the wall. And

829
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: I think this oral argument we just saw on Tuesday

830
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: falls in that category. I am, I am, I'll say

831
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: cautiously but optimistic that we're going to see a reversal

832
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: of Hawaii's law. What's always interesting, though, when the Supreme

833
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: Court comes out with one of these decisions is how

834
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: broad is it? And will we get what we consider

835
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: to be an objectively reasonable definition that can be applied

836
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: across the board to what is and what is not

837
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: a sensitive place? In other words, will we just get

838
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: a decision that said, you know what, every business in

839
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: Hawaii that hasn't given someone expressed permission to possess firearms

840
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: not a sensitive place. That's not what we meant when

841
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: we ruled in the Bruined decision talking about laws prohibiting

842
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: guns and sensitive places are okay. So at least as

843
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: to businesses without prior permission, those aren't what we meant

844
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: and leave it at that, or will they go the

845
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: next step and give us a more definite definition that

846
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: could be applicable or applied to other places where other

847
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: states or localities like New York are trying to label

848
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: every damn place a sensitive place. Will we have a

849
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: definition we can apply to those other limitations on Second

850
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: Amendment rights as well that can help to overturn those decisions.

851
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: Always an interesting issue when you get a new Supreme

852
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: Court case is how broad is the case and how

853
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: applicable is the room in that case to other situations

854
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: that are not identical to the facts of the case

855
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: at issue in this case the Hawaii statue that I

856
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: think is what's going to be interesting. But I think

857
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: here in the next couple three months you will see

858
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: maybe a little longer than that before the actual issue

859
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: a decision. But when we see a decision in this

860
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: Wolford case coming out of why, I think you'll see

861
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: that sensitive place restriction in Hawaii you overturned, and then

862
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: we'll see how broadly it can be applied with that.

863
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: Where a little past the bottom of the hour, lets

864
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 1: take a break. This is Guy Ralford on the Gun

865
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: Guys Show on ninety three WIBC.

866
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 2: Now you've got a gun Guy Guy Ralford on ninety

867
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: three WYBC.

868
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

869
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC and producer Gavin Do I

870
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: understand we We have a caller Jeff on the line,

871
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: Osco watch the phone lines and Jeff has been waiting

872
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,959
Speaker 1: for a while. Jeff, welcome to the Gun Guy Show.

873
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 1: Are you there? Jeff?

874
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I am. Can you hear me?

875
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 5: Sure?

876
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: What's god?

877
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 4: Hey guy?

878
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: Thanks?

879
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 4: Listen. You've been to Hawaii?

880
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: Right? I have not been to Hawaii, Hawaii and Alaska.

881
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: I have not been to other than that. I've been

882
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: to all the continental United States, but I've not been

883
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: to Hawaii.

884
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: No. Well, i have a couple of times, and I'm

885
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 4: going to say something in the first place, thank you

886
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 4: for everything you do for our Second Amendment in the

887
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 4: United States of America.

888
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: And I thank you.

889
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 4: I would ask you now it's okay, it's okay, it's

890
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 4: well deserve for you. Thank you, my friend. I've been

891
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 4: there a couple of times, and I've actually listened to

892
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 4: KHVH on every night listening because I can pick up

893
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 4: the George Norris Store, which I can the show that

894
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 4: runs in the middle of the night, but I can

895
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 4: catch it right five hours behind. US, so I don't

896
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 4: have to stay up all night. But everything that I

897
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 4: hear from them is so democratic. It's like, why do

898
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 4: we even have them as a state. I mean, no

899
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 4: offense to Hawaii, but I mean everything that they do

900
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 4: is so democratic. It's incredible. When you listen to the

901
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 4: regular news there.

902
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know, yeah, I hear you, Jeff. But

903
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: you know when you look at it at everything on

904
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: the west coast of continental the United States, I mean

905
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: you Washington, Oregon, California, I think, and then you know,

906
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: they've obviously got to cover a lot of water to

907
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: get out to Hawaii. They're all that way. And I'm

908
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: not sure exactly why that is, what the geographic connection is,

909
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: but it's certainly true. But one thing we know is

910
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: that Hawaii has been incredibly hostile towards Second Amendment rights,

911
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: and we're hoping they get slapped around pretty hard here

912
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court, which it is looking at least,

913
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: I think it's a reasonable prediction coming out of oral

914
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: argument that that's exactly what's going to happen as a

915
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: result of this Wolford versus Lopez case. I think we've

916
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: got Patrick also on the line. Patrick, welcome the Gun

917
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: Guy Show.

918
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 5: And thanks for all you do. You appreciate you, sure, buddy.

919
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 5: My question is is, say, say you you talk about

920
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 5: alcohol and drugs before he's a gun? Uh, you stumbled

921
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 5: across the three guys in an alley get ready to

922
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 5: rape a wooman or something and your good mean the

923
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 5: only thing that should be justifiable is what should be

924
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 5: because you count is that justifiable or not?

925
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the question.

926
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: So you've encountered three guys in an alley, right, and

927
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna what mug are or attack you when someone.

928
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 5: Or are there readiated process and get ready to rape

929
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 5: somebody or yeah, and you got a buzz going on,

930
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 5: but you have your gun.

931
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you're saying. So is the fact

932
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: that you've been drinking does that affect your ability to

933
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: defend yourself or defend somebody else in this case someone

934
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: who may be getting raped, Yes, sir, yeah, no. And

935
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: I'll just apply Indiana law here and listen. Indiana is

936
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: interesting on this issue of alcohol use and gun possession

937
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: because in Indiana, there is no law in Indiana it

938
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: says it's illegal to possess a gun while you're consuming alcohol,

939
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: or even while you're intoxicated. Even though, again, as was

940
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: just argued in the Supreme Court, there appeared to be

941
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: historical analogs for such a law, and there certainly are

942
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: such laws in other states. Indiana doesn't have a law

943
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: that says it's illegal to have a gun while you're intoxicated,

944
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: or in an establishment that serves alcohol, or even while

945
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: you're consuming alcohol. In addition, there's no law that says

946
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: if an act to defend yourself or defend a third

947
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: person is otherwise justifiable, you somehow lose that justification because

948
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: you have some level of alcohol in your system, including

949
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: being intoxicated. So you mentioned, you know, perhaps having a

950
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: buzz on quote unquote, but you're walking through an alley

951
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: someone's about to be raped. Now know, having recited what

952
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: the law is and is not Indiana, Does that mean

953
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea to get intoxicated while

954
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: you're carrying a gun. Well, of course not, and would

955
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: never advise to do so. In fact, I've been teaching

956
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: gun safety courses for a long time. I wrote in

957
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: my book, you know, alcohol and drugs or a bad

958
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: idea in this case, alcohol and gunpowder don't mix, is

959
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: what we've always said over the years. At the same time,

960
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: if you happen to have had a few cocktails and

961
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: you're carrying a gun and you come across the situation

962
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: or you're confronted with a situation where the use of

963
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: force would otherwise be justified, you don't lose that justification.

964
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: What is potentially dangerous And listen, I've had a lot

965
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: of cases over the years. I've defended things like criminal

966
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: recklessness with a deadly weapon or intimidation with a deadly weapon.

967
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: Those are all felonies, or pointing a firearm, which is

968
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: another felony. A lot of times people under the effects

969
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: of alcohol poor judgment, and when the exercise poor judgment,

970
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: then they do something which can easily be accused of

971
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: being a crime because they did something they probably would

972
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: not have done because they would have exercised better judgment

973
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: had they not been drinking alcohol. So you certainly, I think,

974
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: increase the likelihood you're going to do something illegal. But

975
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: if what you did was illegal, or excuse me, if

976
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,959
Speaker 1: what you did was legal had you been sober. It's

977
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: also legal if you happen to have some level of

978
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: alcohol in your system, like I said, if it's otherwise justified,

979
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: it's still justified. After you've had some cocktails, and I

980
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: think we've also got I'll tell you what we need

981
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: to take a break. Let's say let's do this. Let's

982
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: take a break right here. We've got David and Andy

983
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: on the line. Let's take a break here at the

984
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: three quarter an hour. We'll come back so we get

985
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: both of you guys in here on this show. So

986
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: show some patience here with us, if you would over

987
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: the break, we'll be right back. Guy Ralford on The

988
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

989
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 2: Atturney, He's an NRA certified Firearms instructor. He's the Gun Guy.

990
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 2: Guy Ralford on ninety three WYPC.

991
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

992
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WYBC. Let's gorfe to the phone lines,

993
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: and David has called in. David, Welcome to the Gun

994
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 1: Guy Show. Guy.

995
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 4: It's an honor to talk to you.

996
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 5: I have been listening ever since you were on gun

997
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 5: Talk Radio and covering the Greenbrier mallshooting.

998
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: Awesome, Well, thank you. I just had a quick question

999
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: about where do we stand on the ghost gun or

1000
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: the p eighties and the eighty percent lowers in.

1001
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 4: The court system.

1002
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: I haven't heard any news on that or where whether

1003
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: or not we can still produce those or even have them.

1004
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 4: Do you have any guidance on that?

1005
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's one of those situations where we've had

1006
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: some lower court rulings, but we still don't have any

1007
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: definitive rules as far as what we can do going forward.

1008
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: So we've had some lower court decisions, particularly down in Texas,

1009
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: who have said the ghost gun regulations or the new

1010
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: rules are not enforceable. But I wouldn't change anything we're

1011
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: doing right now, David, until we get something more definitive,

1012
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 1: or unless the government withdraws those regulations altogether. I wish

1013
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: I could be more specific for you, but unfortunately where

1014
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: that one is a little bit in limbo. Let's go

1015
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: back to the phone lines. We've got Andy, Andy, welcome

1016
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: to the Gun Guys Show.

1017
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 6: How are you doing? I didn't know if you have

1018
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 6: to catch the interview that Abdul had with Ryan Mears.

1019
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 6: I think the guy name is Ken dall Adams from

1020
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 6: imt IMP about the dropping the homicide raid, and he

1021
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 6: brought I'm dill brought up the point about constitutional carry

1022
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 6: and it had an effect on it, and they were mirrors.

1023
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 6: Of course, didn't say anything, mister Adams was all he

1024
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 6: commented on was the number of people that injured themselves

1025
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 6: in firearm related incidents. As far as constitutional carrying, it's

1026
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 6: totally dismissive of it. So I just, you know, I'm

1027
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 6: kind of disappointed in that. I just don't think that

1028
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 6: still ever changed their attitude towards the constitutional carriage, has

1029
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 6: refused to acknowledge that, you know, the good that it does.

1030
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: You know, Andy, I'm so glad you brought that up,

1031
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: and thanks for calling the gun Guy show. No, Andy's

1032
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: completely right, and it's really kind of interesting because what

1033
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: are we here. You know, before we got constitutional carry

1034
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: passed in twenty twenty two, we heard from people in

1035
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: Mary County, from the police and from city government and

1036
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: from the prosecutor's office. What do we hear? We heard, Oh,

1037
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna be blood in the streets. Oh, we're gonna

1038
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: have more and more homicides. Oh, we're gonna have more

1039
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: and more murders. Oh, this is going to be a catastrophe.

1040
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: And what have we seen since then? We've seen a

1041
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: decline and in fact, from twenty five, or excuse me,

1042
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: from twenty four to twenty five, we've saw one of

1043
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: the most precipitous drops across the country where more and

1044
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: more states twenty nine states now. In fact, if North

1045
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: Carolina can override a governor's veto, we're going to be

1046
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: at thirty states have constitutional carry. So nationwide we're down

1047
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: where more and more states are being compelled to issue licenses,

1048
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:21,959
Speaker 1: in part because of the bruined decision from New York,

1049
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: where more and more states are passing constitutional carry. And

1050
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: right here in Indiana where we've had constitutional carry, now,

1051
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: where we've had constitutional carry and effect now for a while,

1052
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: what do we see another dramatic drop? And exactly as

1053
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: Andy says, you know, when you ask our elected politicians

1054
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: and our police who opposed constitutional carry saying there's going

1055
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: to be blood in the streets, it's going to be

1056
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: the wild, wild West. And we asked them about that,

1057
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: what do you get? You get crickets. And what was

1058
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: really interesting, and I talked about this with Hammer and

1059
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: Nigel a couple of times, is there was an interview

1060
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: where Russ McQuaid was talking to the Chief and the

1061
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: prosecutor's office and they were talking about how the total

1062
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: number of murders were down, but the number of justifiable

1063
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: shootings were up, and they were talking about the number

1064
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: of justifiable shootings being up as a bad thing because

1065
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: they weren't convicting people from murder. No, no, no, it's a

1066
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: good thing because the good guy won and the bad

1067
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: guy died. But that's what we get from elected officials

1068
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: in Marion County. And with that, that wraps up this

1069
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: week's edition of The Gun Guy Show. Remember, always be

1070
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: safe and always shoot straight. This is Guy Ralford on

1071
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.