1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: So over the weekend I had the opportunity to speak 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: with Ambassador Michael Lyder, who is the Israeli Ambassador to 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: the United States. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good to be with you. 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: He was in town and he's doing some touring and 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Connection to Connection, and there we sat in the studio 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: having a conversation for well over fifty minutes. A little 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: bit about Bourbon, a little bit about Israel, a lot 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: about Israel specifically the war with Gaza, specifically what he 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: sees from the US media. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: And so I'm. 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: Gonna bring you parts of that interview. I'll have the 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: whole thing up on the YouTube channel at Tony Katz 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: and I'll have it up as a special piece of 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: podcasts share that over there. I asked the questions including 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: who dropped the ball on October seventh? You know, is 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: is this war winnable? 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: Meaning what does it mean to win? 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: And we had an interesting bit of back and forth 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: twice regarding does Hamas remain or not remain? What does 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: it mean disarmed versus dismantled? And it was a very 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: interesting look. But I appreciate very much Ambassador Light's candor. 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 2: It was it was very very present. 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: Not only a bit of the historical references and making 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: sure you understand connection connection pieces to just the current 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: situation and the very honest, sober look at what it 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: is Israelis are dealing with what Americans are seeing in 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: their universities and from their politicos and others. So the 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: conversation it didn't start here, but I'll share it with 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: you here. Where are the Israelis? I mean, are they 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: looking to end Tomas or are they looking for this 32 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: war to be over? Are the people of Israel with 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: you on this idea? Because certainly I have never discussed 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: the destruction of Hamas as in somehow there's a man 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: left standing, But one could argue, how could you ensure 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: you got every last man? 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 3: Are the Israelis with you on this? 38 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: Do they want this fight to continue until Hamas is gone? 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: Or is it get the hostages back and we'll worry 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: about the rest later. Which certainly was a conversation piece 41 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: a year plus ago, certainly seems to have changed since 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: the release of the videos that you're referencing, showing these 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: hostages being starved and horrific conditions, one very possibly digging 44 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: his own grave. 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: I mean that's what it looked like to anybody who 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: had a mind. 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 48 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 4: Well, look, it's a legitimate discussion. Everybody's united that Gaza 49 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 4: could never go back to October sixth. There's nobody in 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 4: Israel doesn't agree to that Gaza could never again pose 51 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 4: a for our Ti Israel. There is a discussion over 52 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 4: whether or not that if we now move back basically 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 4: surrender to get the hostages out. The majority opinion is, 54 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 4: which comes to the fore clearly in all the polling, 55 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 4: is that we will not succeed in getting all the 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 4: hostages out alive and leave Hamas standing at the end 57 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 4: of the day. They're going to hold out to the 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 4: very end, and we could try, but the idea of 59 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 4: surrender and leaving Hamas intact will pose a visceral existential 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 4: threat in the future. So it's a it's a very 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 4: difficult question that we're facing. There is a discussion about it, 62 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 4: but the majority of people are still absolutely convinced that 63 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 4: we have to get the hostages out as we remain 64 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 4: intent on destroying Hamas. It's a it's a hard bridge 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 4: to cross, Okay, it's a it's a hard circle to square, 66 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 4: but we're working on it. And it's important to remember 67 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 4: we started with two hundred and fifty five hostages. We 68 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: got two hundred and five out with a combination of 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 4: both negotiation and military pressure. We did not accomplish anything 70 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 4: without military pressure. The military pressure has to continue, and 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 4: that's the only thing that has a chance of convincing 72 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 4: the last men standing in Fromas to give up. 73 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: Talking to Ambassador Michael Leiter, the Israeli ambassador to the 74 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: United States, one more question about October seventh. It's the 75 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: hard question how who took their eyes off the ball. 76 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: In the end, someone has to be responsible for not 77 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: knowing things that we could argue clearly not everything could 78 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: have been known, but many things should have been known. 79 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, what was it that great philosopher Forrest Gump said, 80 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: stuff happens, and this was bad stuff. It was a 81 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 4: perfect storm. There was a breakdown in the system and 82 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 4: for a good six to eight hours we were dysfunctional. 83 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 4: But nobody should get the wrong idea. We have the 84 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 4: best intelligence in the world. We proved that just a 85 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 4: few months later in Beirut when five thousand beepers went 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 4: off in people's pockets. We proved that A few days 87 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 4: after that with the walkie talkies that went off basically 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 4: decimated Krizbala. This was an organization, a terrorist organization that 89 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 4: was feared across the world, one hundred and fifty thousand 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: storm troopers. We basically masculated them. And then what makes 91 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 4: that even look like a playground was what we accomplished 92 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 4: in the middle of Tehran. Okay, we the same army 93 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 4: that failed on October seventh, created a drone factory in 94 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 4: this center of Tehran over months and sent them into action, 95 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 4: all at the same time, taking out all of the 96 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 4: nuclear scientists and all of the generals that hitted up 97 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: the IRGC in about ninety seconds. Then we had all 98 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 4: of the installations, the missile installations, their any missile installations 99 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 4: taken out, some by air, some on the ground, paving 100 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 4: the way for Midnight Hammer, so that our planes could 101 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 4: have complete dominance over the skies of Iran, opening the 102 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 4: way for the B twos, the American be twos, to 103 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: fly in uncontested to take out these nuclear sites. By 104 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 4: the way, it was an unprecedented collaboration between Israel and 105 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 4: the United States. There's never been anything on this scale. 106 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 4: The intensity of the collaborations, which I was personally witnessed 107 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 4: to being the point man in Washington between the Israel 108 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 4: government and the Trump administration. 109 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: You come in to your job as President Trump is 110 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: getting inaugurated. 111 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: And I mentioned you're born in Scranton, right. 112 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: And so all we've ever heard about Joe Biden, you know, 113 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: a scrappy kid from Scranton, allegedly. I don't know if 114 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: he was scrappy or not. I didn't know him at 115 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: the time. Talk about the difference in support or to 116 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: the extent there is a difference in support between the 117 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: Biden administration and the Trump administration, which admittedly you do 118 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: have a much closer view of than maybe anybody. 119 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 4: Right, Well, a few things. 120 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: I mean. 121 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 4: First of all, I think that Joe Biden belonged to 122 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 4: the traditional Democratic support for Israel. He had a visceral, 123 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 4: you know, belly up natural support for the state of Israel, 124 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 4: which goes back decades. I think that he was dealing 125 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 4: with a situation where there were many demanding of him 126 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 4: more of a heavy handed policy towards Israel. I think 127 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 4: for the most part he deflected it. But there was 128 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 4: something that we had to deal with which is very problematic, 129 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 4: and that was an arms embargo, A functional arms in 130 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 4: Bargo during a seven front war that we had to 131 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: contend with him. The first thing that President Trump did 132 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 4: coming into office was to remove that embargo and put 133 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 4: everything back on track. It took some time, because you know, 134 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 4: the moment you take the train off the tracks, it 135 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 4: takes a little bit more time. Even though they have 136 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: a direction instruction to put it back on, it take 137 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 4: some time, but it was done. It was the first thing. 138 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 4: I don't think we've ever had a better friend in 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 4: the White House President Trump. He brought us the Abraham 140 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 4: Accords in twenty nineteen, and nobody could have imagined that 141 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 4: Israel would have a piece of cord with four Muslim 142 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 4: states without being demanded of to divide Jerusalem, to give 143 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: up the Jewish communities in judaani Samaria, just to live 144 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 4: in peace. And I'll tell you, before the war, I 145 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 4: spent a good deal of time in Abu Dhabi, and 146 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 4: you see, I have a kip a yamakam. I felt 147 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 4: more comfortable in Abu Dhabi then I feel in most 148 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 4: European cities as a Jew. Now, who could have imagined 149 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: that ten years ago? Okay, And some of my deepest 150 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: discussions on philosophy, on theology, on political science taking place 151 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 4: with colleagues in the Muslim world that wouldn't have been possible. 152 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 3: For the abraham A courts now go ahead. 153 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 4: So you know, I think are there differences. I'll tell 154 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 4: you one thing I am absolutely committed to. And it's 155 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 4: difficult because the added the atmosphere in Washington now is 156 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 4: very partisan it but I'm absolutely committed to making and 157 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 4: keeping Israel as bipartisan as possible. It is probably the 158 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 4: most difficult job that I have, or part of the 159 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 4: job that I have, is keeping things bipartisan. I engage 160 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: with senators in congressman a very critical of Israel. I 161 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 4: want to keep the door open for discussion, but obviously 162 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 4: I want to embrace those senators, like the senators of 163 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,599 Speaker 4: Indiana and the congressmen of Indiana, who are so consistently supportive, 164 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 4: like the governor I hope to meet tomorrow, so consistently 165 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: supportive of Israel in every way. And while I'm working 166 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: hard towards a bipartisan embrace, I want to make sure 167 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 4: that I don't leave the very close engagement that we 168 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 4: have with the best friends who are constantly you know, 169 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 4: at our backs and holding firm. 170 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: You mentioned, who would have thought that ten years ago? 171 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: And I think that what we see now is just 172 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: an unbelievable openness to the hatred. But I can point 173 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: back to eleven years talking about European cities Charlie Ebdoh 174 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: and the attack there in France. 175 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 3: This is a constant and consistent thing. 176 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: We can talk about those who have been beheaded by 177 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: Islamists in the middle of the United Kingdom, and yet 178 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: these places still. 179 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 3: Refuse to be on the side. I think of the rational, 180 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: we'll get to that. 181 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: But you brought up the people of Congress, and certainly 182 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: we have seen some people of Congress being not just critical. 183 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: But flat out. 184 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: Would the term be a fabulous or just engaged in 185 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: a radical amount of rhetoric and a very little bit 186 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: of fact. 187 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: We see this in US universities. 188 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 1: You spoke very clearly about this regarding the New York 189 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: Times and the posting of this photo of look at 190 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: this starving child. And it turns out this child is 191 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: not starving. This child has cerebral palsy. This child has 192 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: other issues that lead to the malnutrition. And in the 193 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: photo cut out of the photo there's his brother, healthy 194 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: as can be. 195 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: How much harder. I mean, you actually referred. 196 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: To that as a blood leting, as a demonization in 197 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: the reporting. How much harder does that make the job 198 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: of defeating Humus? 199 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: So the conversation continues from there and I will bring 200 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 2: it to you more ahead, Tony Katz. This is Tony Kats. 201 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Today, continuing my conversation with Ambassador Michael Lighter. Tony Katz, 202 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: Tony Katz today, Good to be with you. His Hebrew 203 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: name is hil Lighter. And I don't know why I 204 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: told you that. It's just I tried to pronounce it 205 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: multiple times, and it's like they wouldn't give me a 206 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: definitive answer on how to pronounce it. 207 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: IM say, just tell me. I don't know if they 208 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: were messing with me or whatever it was. 209 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: I spoke with the ambassador for almost an hour over 210 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: over the weekend. It was a good, good conversation. There 211 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: was pushback, there was there was a history lesson, there 212 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: was there was really I think for me a takeaway 213 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: that the ambassador embodies an approach of we're not apologizing. 214 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: We're not going to apologize in the slightest we are 215 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: not going to pretend that everything is all right and 216 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: We're not going to beg for our supper. 217 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 2: We're going to put an end to these people. 218 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: We're going to fight the propagandists who come at us, 219 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: and we're not going to stop. And that led to 220 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: the conversation regarding the New York Times. You spoke very 221 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: clearly about this regarding the New York Times and the 222 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: posting of this photo of look at this starving child, 223 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: and it turns out this child is not starving. This 224 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: child has cerebral palsy. This child has other issues that 225 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: lead to the malnutrition. And in the photo cut out 226 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: of the photo there's his brother healthy as can be. 227 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: How much harder I mean, you actually referred to that 228 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: as a blood letting, as a demonization in the reporting. 229 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: How much harder does that make the job of defeating humas. 230 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 4: Well? It makes it much more difficult. We can actually 231 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 4: see in the Intel that Hamas hardens its position in 232 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 4: negotiations over the hostages every time the Europeans sound off 233 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 4: in favor of a Palestinian state. I mean, you know, 234 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 4: Madame Macron and Prime Minister Starmer and the Prime Minister 235 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 4: of Canady really have to stop and think, what are 236 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 4: you doing? Are you really going to give the Palestinians 237 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 4: a prize. Now is October seventh going to be Palestine 238 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 4: Independence Day? Now? Our hostages are still rotting in tunnels. 239 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 4: You're proclaiming recognition unilaterally of what does that even mean? 240 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 4: How do you unilaterally recognize? What does that mean? Who's 241 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 4: the government? Well, you know the last time you try this, 242 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 4: you gave elections to the people of Gaza. You know 243 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: they elected, They elected Ramas, and the polls indicate that 244 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 4: today if they were held in ju Dan Samaria, than 245 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: me once again elect Tramas. Now, I want to tell 246 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 4: you the people of Israel have been willing to work 247 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 4: towards a Palestinian state alongside of Israel for decades. That 248 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 4: was Oslo. We try to make Oslo work. We ended 249 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 4: up with buses being bombed. I was the Deputy director 250 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 4: General of the Ministry of Education. One of the things 251 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: I had to deal with in the Second Devada were 252 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of school kids suffering from all sorts 253 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 4: of anxieties because they had to take school buses and 254 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 4: the school buses were targeted. We lost one hundred and 255 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 4: sixty two children during the second and Defada because school 256 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: buses were targeted by Yasar Aarha. It wasn't even Hamas 257 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 4: at the time. It was Yasar Arafa with whom we 258 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: had a peace deal. Now, after October seventh, the bandwidth 259 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 4: in Israel for a Palestinian state west of the Jordan 260 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: has been reduced to about a hair's breadth. 261 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: Right, there's app that was probably the biggest sea change 262 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: is not from from coast to non coast. 263 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 4: I mean, look, somebody's just got to take a look 264 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 4: at the map. As I said before, Israel fits into 265 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 4: Indiana four and a half times. Now, if we're going 266 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 4: to carve out Judaan and Samaria, we're reducing Israel from 267 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 4: a country that is now forty miles wide to a 268 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 4: country that'll be nine miles wide. How do you possibly 269 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 4: protect the country that's nine miles wide? You know, people 270 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 4: often ask why do you have two ports, one in 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 4: Haifa and one in ash DoD on the Mediterranean. One 272 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 4: port in the Mediterranean will be enough. I mean there's 273 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 4: only ninety kilometers in between them. Why do you have 274 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 4: two ports? Well, the reason is that the founder of Israel, 275 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 4: the first Prime Minister of Israel, Bengorian, realized that we 276 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 4: have a country so narrow nine miles wide, it's easy 277 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 4: to cut it in half. He didn't want a situation 278 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 4: where we'd be without a port, so he put one 279 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 4: above the nine mile wide with and one below one 280 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 4: in ash Doad in the south, one HiPE in the north. 281 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 4: That's those are the parameters of the country. So we're 282 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 4: not about to reduce ourselves to the pre sixty seven border, 283 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 4: particularly after we saw what jihadis on our border can do. 284 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 4: So we want to think out of the box. We 285 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 4: want the Palestinians to live in dignity, we want them 286 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 4: to have local autonomy. You want to think of all 287 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 4: sorts of ideas that are going to raise their standard 288 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: of living. And by the way, already they have a 289 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 4: higher GDP per capita than their neighbors in Egypt and Jordan, 290 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: certainly Syria. When I've been talking about that. 291 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: But you brought up Canada and Portugal, the UK and 292 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: France saying they're going to recognize a Palestinian state. We 293 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: talk about how the propaganda of the New York Times 294 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: makes it more difficult. This makes it more more difficult. 295 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 4: Because that's you mentioned New York Times. I got to 296 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 4: point something out to you. Feel free So the idea 297 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 4: that Zionism began in the nineteenth century is nonsense. Zionism 298 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 4: is an integral part of Judaism. There's no Judaism without Zionism. 299 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 4: We're introduced in Judaism to Abraham, right, Abraham. What does 300 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 4: Abraham do as we're introduced to him, Go to land 301 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 4: of Israel. That's our introduction to Abraham. Nothing else. Everything 302 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 4: else follows that. Our very introduction is the between the 303 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 4: first Jew and the Land of Israel, and everything else 304 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: in Genesis centers around that. They have to leave because 305 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 4: of famine. They have to go back to the land. 306 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 4: Isaac leaves because of famine, goes back to the land. 307 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: Jacob is warned despite the famine not to leave. Then 308 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 4: it's exile from the land in Egypt, and then it's 309 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 4: leaving Egypt where the land of Israel. That's the whole 310 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 4: story of the advent of the Jewish people. So this 311 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 4: idea that you know Zionism was born out of German 312 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 4: nationalism of the nineteenth century, it's all poppy cock, it's 313 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 4: all nonsense, it's all attempt post by the way Edward, said, 314 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 4: professor of English literature and Columbia University, who really began 315 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 4: this whole woke nonsense about you know, being us being colonizers. 316 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 4: He said, he had this phrase, the British left Nigeria 317 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: and the French left Algeria, only the Jews remained in Palestine. Yeah. Man, 318 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 4: but Jews are too the land of Israel, not the 319 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 4: British art to Nigeria or what the French are to Algeria. 320 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 4: We're indigenous. We're not usurpers, We're not Aliens, We're not colonizers. 321 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 4: We're indigenous to the land. In the land is indigenous 322 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: to us. 323 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: Talking to the ambassador, the Israeli Ambassador to the United States, 324 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: Michael Leiter, that subject that conversation in order to work, 325 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: has to involve a participant that is actually willing to 326 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: listen to it and impossibly. 327 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 3: Engage your debate in it. 328 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: What you see, as you bring up the New York Times, 329 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: as we talk about this propaganda piece, things that we 330 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: see on college campuses are people who will not listen 331 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: to it. And I would say that this is something 332 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: of American progressives that you could argue that in the main, 333 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: but it's certainly not all Whether we're talking about Senator 334 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: John Fetterman of Pennsylvania and Congressman Richie Torres of New York. 335 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: These are people I disagree with vehemently on a great 336 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: number of topics on Israel. 337 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 3: They are remarkably sound and strong. 338 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: But American progressives keep discussing like the former Transportation secretary, 339 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: former mayor South Bend that you mentioned earlier, Pete Buddha Judge, 340 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: who I'm assuming is trying to figure out whether or 341 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: not he's running. In twenty twenty eight, and went on 342 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: a podcast called Pod Save America, which is run by 343 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: guys who are part of the Obama team, and the 344 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: conversation of Israel came up, and his answers were so 345 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: out of all sides of his mouth that he had 346 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: to come back and further engage clarification. And once again, 347 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: as with so many of these people, the clarification involves, well, 348 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: we need a two state solution. There has to be 349 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: a two state solution. What we need is a two 350 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: state solution. Ambassador, Is there any possibility at all, ever, 351 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: in any way of a two state solution. 352 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 4: Well, it's not two and it's not state, and it's 353 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 4: not solution. But aside from that, let me get back 354 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 4: to that in a minute. I got sidetracked that was 355 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 4: going to say something about The New York Times. 356 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 3: Oh, go ahead, as I said before, the New York. 357 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 4: Times blood libel against the State of Israel, where it 358 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 4: puts a baby suffering from cystic fibrosis on the cover 359 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: and claims and crops out the brother who's perfectly healthy. 360 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 4: And you can't really see that the mother is perfectly 361 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 4: healthy because she's kind of coddling the spine exposed little 362 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 4: boy suffering. They knew what the story was. They knew it, 363 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 4: and it hit some seventy to eighty million people when 364 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 4: they were attracted it five days later, and it really 365 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 4: wasn't a retraction. It was this milli mouth kind of apologetica. 366 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 4: It nearly didn't really say that we were It wasn't 367 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 4: Amia Kolpa. Some fifty thousand people saw it right five 368 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: days later. I didn't even understand the context. That's a 369 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 4: blood libel. I mean, what is the difference between that 370 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 4: and saying that Jews use blood in preparing their mansters 371 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 4: for Passover. That's an excuse to Jews, and we saw it. 372 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 4: By the way, I had two of my employees killed, 373 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 4: two diplomats from the embassy in Jerusalem were shot dead 374 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 4: by somebody who flew from Chicago with a gun and 375 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 4: said free, free, free Palestine and shot them dead. As 376 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 4: a matter of fact, when the young girl, Sarah from Kansas, 377 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 4: beautiful young lady was crawling away after she had been shot, once, 378 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 4: he moved closer to make sure that she was dead, 379 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 4: you know, fired another round. Where did this sickness come from, 380 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 4: if not from this campus insanity or from people claiming 381 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 4: that we're implementing a genocide. Implementing a genocide. It is 382 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 4: unprecedented in the annals of history of modern warfare where 383 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 4: a country at war with a foreign entity is providing 384 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 4: a surge of humanitarian funding. We're not responsible for that. 385 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 4: We're responsible to allow the UNN to facilitate the provision 386 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 4: of humanitarian and we're doing that. And I don't want to. 387 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 3: Get back to them. 388 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 4: No, we're doing it in a big way, a big way. 389 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 4: But let me get back to New York Times, the 390 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 4: New York Times in the early part of the twentieth 391 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 4: century under Jewish ownership. I love it when people say, well, 392 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 4: you know, Bernie Sanders a Jew. Okay, you want to 393 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 4: hear my takes no, Yeah, listen, listen, he's not a deal. Okay, 394 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 4: he's a head of a Jewish mother. Okay, but you know, 395 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 4: don't please, don't claim the mantle. You know that you 396 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 4: have a right to speak and we have the Jewish 397 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 4: people because you had a Jewish mother. That doesn't rate. Okay. 398 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 4: Question is how do you feel about the state of Israel. 399 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 4: How do you feel about the most important thing the 400 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 4: Jewish people have in the world today? Okay? If you're 401 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 4: constantly working to put an embargo on them, don't claim 402 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: the mantle of you know, well, I have a Jewish accent, 403 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 4: and I come from Brooklyn with all due. 404 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: Respect, I loved the whole with all due respect. 405 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: Line because for me, I'll say, I won't speak for 406 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: the ambassador. 407 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: There's no respect to have for Bernie Sanders. None. 408 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders on every level is a failure. A failure 409 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: is a man, a failure in his politics, a failure 410 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to being able to recognize right from wrong, 411 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: a failure to to speak honestly and clearly. He's a 412 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: failed human being who has never provided any value anywhere 413 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: at all. That he has popularity that people like Dana 414 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: bash Over at CNN want a lot and glorify him. 415 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: Really ugly stuff, as I see it, very very ugly stuff. 416 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: My conversation with ambassador and Michael Leiterer of the Israeli 417 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: Ambassador to the United States. 418 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 2: I mean, it covered a lot, a lot. 419 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: A lot of subjects, and I'm going to be posting 420 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: the whole thing, so you have it. 421 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to be playing more of it in the 422 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: days ahead. 423 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: Just a look of philosophy is to like, what moves 424 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: these people, what exactly are they all about? 425 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: And certainly when it comes to the absolute. 426 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: Horror of the New York Times, when it comes to them, 427 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: we have to stop thinking of them as the paper 428 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: of record. 429 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: I've said this before, I'll say it again. 430 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: The New York Post has to be the paper of record, 431 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: and President Trump should say so. 432 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: The New York Times is no longer in charge. This 433 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: is not news. How many more times can they fail enough? 434 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: The New York Post is the paper record, The Washington 435 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: Times is the paper of record. You're the paper record, 436 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: far better track record than the New York Times. 437 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: We need to put an end to this immediately, if. 438 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: Not sooner, keep it here. I'm Tony Katz. This is 439 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: Tony Kats Today.