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Speaker 1: Thank you to Liz by the way for calling in

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Speaker 1: the program, and in February, I look forward to celebrating

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Speaker 1: Liz's birthday forty ninth birthday. Stephen holder Is with ESPN

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Speaker 1: dot com joins us now on the program on the

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Speaker 1: always busy and shockingly unsponsored guest line, Steven, I'll begin

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Speaker 1: with this the you know, Monday is always kind of

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Speaker 1: the day when the dust settles on a game and

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Speaker 1: you kind of get a chance to look back and

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Speaker 1: get just a better understanding of how things fell, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, and what went right, what went wrong, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe that Shane Steichen, other than giving more

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Speaker 1: clarity and kind of admitting to overthinking that final drive offensively,

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Speaker 1: what areas do you think the Colts look back on

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Speaker 1: and said, you know, even though we won, here are

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Speaker 1: the areas that are of concern.

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Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's it's a red zone. I think

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Speaker 2: that late game situation could have been avoided had they

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Speaker 2: converted when they had an opportunity. I mean, well, excuse me,

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Speaker 2: three opportunities. I believe down in the red zone at

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Speaker 2: least once inside the ten, and I think maybe twice.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact field position. But I mean

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Speaker 2: they were in scoring position all day long. I mean

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Speaker 2: that's what they do now, right, I mean they move

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Speaker 2: the ball, they get down in position, and they get points.

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Speaker 2: But you got to get touchdowns when when your defense

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Speaker 2: is given up points on the other side. So that

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Speaker 2: would be my nitpick outside of the late game situation,

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Speaker 2: which is more than a nitpick, that is a full

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Speaker 2: blown what the hell are you doing? But outside of that,

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Speaker 2: my nit pick would be the red zone and those

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Speaker 2: That's how games work a lot of times, right, These

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Speaker 2: situations unfold early in the game and you don't always

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Speaker 2: know whether they're going to factor into the results. I

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Speaker 2: would say they did because frankly, as I said it,

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Speaker 2: had the Colts converted on on a couple of those

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Speaker 2: or even one more, it would have been maybe a

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Speaker 2: different situation in that game.

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Speaker 1: Stephen, were you here when I think it was the

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Speaker 1: first trip abroad and I'm pretty sure you were here

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Speaker 1: covering the Colts when the Colts played in London against

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville and over the years ago.

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Speaker 3: Yep, okay, with that game, that's right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I believe that game was the low point and final

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Speaker 1: point in the illustrious Colts career of Antonio Cramarti, am

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Speaker 1: I correct in saying.

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Speaker 2: That I know where you're going with this. And I

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Speaker 2: had this conversation the other day, so put to continue.

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Speaker 1: That was though that that game, correct.

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Speaker 3: It was? It was? It was something.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you, was that the last time that

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Speaker 1: we saw a cornerback who had been kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: brought in from craigslist that struggled the way we saw

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Speaker 1: Xavier and Howard struggle.

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Speaker 2: I would say, that's exactly what came to mind as

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Speaker 2: I was watching that sequence play out. I said to

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Speaker 2: Mike Chapel, I said, I'm getting Antonio Carimarti vibes right now.

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Speaker 3: I said that.

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Speaker 2: And and what's what's interesting is that Darius Butler was

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Speaker 2: doing the Colts game on Sunday for I believe ESPN

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Speaker 2: Radio and happened to be there and I said, I, so, wait,

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Speaker 2: do you remember that game? And he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was the guy who was hurt. I was like,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, that's amazing. So so if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 2: Monte Davis, now you rest in peace was injured and

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Speaker 2: then Darius was one of the backups. Darius came in

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Speaker 2: and then he heard his hamstring and missed that game

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Speaker 2: as well, So they had they had signed an Antonio

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Speaker 2: Comarti off the street I don't know, a week or

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Speaker 2: two earlier, and it turned out they needed him that game.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, he had I think the worst singles series

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen a cornerback have. And this was close.

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Speaker 2: Now we'll see. I mean, I think the interesting thing

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Speaker 2: about Xavier and Howard is that I didn't I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say that I had in the issue with his play

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Speaker 2: in week one. What he did was was perfectly fine.

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Speaker 2: But he also wasn't tested in week one, which honestly

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Speaker 2: it raises questions about the Dolphins. Why didn't you test him?

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Speaker 2: Would be my question. But as Luanda Rumo just finished

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Speaker 2: telling us, and in his weekly interview, he said, look,

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Speaker 2: you know when when Servarius Ward is out, and you

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Speaker 2: know you have to he has to play more snaps

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Speaker 2: talking about Howard when he had he had to be

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Speaker 2: pressed into a bigger role, they thought he would get

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Speaker 2: tested and they were right. And so you know, they

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Speaker 2: think that he will play his way into better shape

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Speaker 2: and get his legs back, and that this may be

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Speaker 2: an ongoing process, but he's going to have to play

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Speaker 2: some even if you bring other guys into the folds

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Speaker 2: here in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: You know, Steven, Steven holders our guest when when lou

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Speaker 1: Anarumo was talking about, you know, just defensively and what

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Speaker 1: they have done through two games, and let's get to

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Speaker 1: that before we get over to the offensive side of things.

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Speaker 1: You know, clearly people enjoy or they have found success

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Speaker 1: in kind of the more aggressive defense than what we

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Speaker 1: saw from a year ago. They they do do a

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Speaker 1: little bit more masking. However, it's hard to say, because

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Speaker 1: he has not been given his full slate just due

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Speaker 1: to the injuries in the defensive backfield, how will this

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Speaker 1: defense continue to evolve? And do you think that there

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Speaker 1: are even some schemes that an Arumo has not gotten

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Speaker 1: into because of the fact that he has not had

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Speaker 1: his full arsenal.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you got to go back to week one,

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Speaker 2: and so I thought in week one you saw him

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Speaker 2: do some more creative things. I did not see as

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Speaker 2: much of that in week two, and that tracks right

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Speaker 2: because of what you just said, they had to maybe

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Speaker 2: be a little more, a little more playing Jane, if

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Speaker 2: you will, because you know they didn't have their full

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Speaker 2: compliment of personnel and Lot two is the big one

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Speaker 2: there as well, not jess Ward. It's also a lot

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Speaker 2: to to have that consistent pass rush up front, and

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Speaker 2: you know, you noticed that the pass rush on Sunday

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Speaker 2: was was not nearly consistent enough. Granted, Bone mixes throwing

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Speaker 2: the ball quickly most of the time, you know, but

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Speaker 2: so did you know? So is two attack of ba

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Speaker 2: lois trying to do that as well, and they got

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Speaker 2: a lot of pressure in week one. So I just

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Speaker 2: think that the personnel as a factor, and when you

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Speaker 2: get everybody back, I presume you might be able to

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Speaker 2: try some more tactics that that will maybe, you know,

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Speaker 2: surprise the quarterback. This will be an interesting game coming up.

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Speaker 2: You know, you got a rookie quarterback and cam Ward.

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Speaker 2: They're not taking him lightly, but as and Rumo said,

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Speaker 2: look we're going to try to show him some things

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Speaker 2: he hasn't seen so far, which is probably a lot

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Speaker 2: right for young quarterbacks. So I think this is a

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Speaker 2: game where maybe they do try some different things.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the status on Ward just yet, but

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Speaker 2: he is tracking in the right direction from what Shanan

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Speaker 2: Stykeen has said, so maybe that's promising.

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Speaker 3: And they get him back.

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Speaker 1: I talked about this yesterday, Steven, I want your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on it. Do you believe that Shane Stiken is calling

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Speaker 1: plays because he believes in the skill set of Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones he and therefore is exceeding what we thought or

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Speaker 1: what maybe he even thought in terms of what Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones could do. Or is Shane Stike in calling plays

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Speaker 1: in a way that he believes that Daniel Jones needs

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Speaker 1: to has some limitation and or for he is creative

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Speaker 1: calling it to circumvent those limitations and try to bring

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Speaker 1: things out of him. Does that make sense what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I know what you're saying. I think that it's I

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Speaker 2: think the answer is neither. I think it's a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit of a blend.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is, I think what

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Speaker 2: you have is a is a good combination. Here you

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Speaker 2: have a coach who understands his quarterback, and you have

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Speaker 2: a quarterback who understands what his coach is trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 2: and they're working hand in hand here. I do think

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Speaker 2: this is becoming a really good duo. And I wasn't

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Speaker 2: sure you know how much that would matter, but I

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Speaker 2: do think I understand something now a little better than

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Speaker 2: I did earlier, I think, and maybe this is true

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Speaker 2: for all of us. You know, back during the quarterback battle,

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Speaker 2: there were times when it was like, look, it's not

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Speaker 2: always obvious in at least in training camp. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: always obvious with Daniel Jones. But I think the mental

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Speaker 2: aspect that he talked about and the mastery of the

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Speaker 2: offense and situations, I think you're starting to see that

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Speaker 2: sort of play out and sort of, you know, become

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Speaker 2: a factor and be a reason for Daniel Jones success.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is Saint Styking right

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Speaker 2: now is dialing things up where he's going to get

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Speaker 2: somebody open right off the bat. The first option is

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Speaker 2: open very often so far, and Daniel Jones loves to

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Speaker 2: go to his first option, his first read in the progression,

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Speaker 2: and it's been open, you know, And so that is

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Speaker 2: a credit to Saints s Tyking, you know, getting in

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Speaker 2: the route combinations together in such a way that the

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Speaker 2: first option is available to Daniel Jones. And then there's

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Speaker 2: Daniel jones decisiveness, which Saint Stykeen is certainly aware of.

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Speaker 2: And that's how you sort of have this blend where

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Speaker 2: the coach is putting the quarterback in the positions to

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Speaker 2: the seed, and that quarterback is is very good at

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Speaker 2: what they're asking him to do. So neither one works

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Speaker 2: without the other, and it is working right now because

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Speaker 2: they're both doing what they're supposed to do. So I

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Speaker 2: like this combination look the same, Stiken, I think you're

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Speaker 2: starting to see the you know, the real high level acumen.

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Speaker 2: I think of saying syke in at times right now.

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Speaker 2: The late game management, that's a different topic, but in

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Speaker 2: terms of the play calling, I think you're starting to

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Speaker 2: see it.

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Speaker 1: You know, the play calling for Alec Pierce to me

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Speaker 1: is interesting because they started using him more obviously in

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Speaker 1: that you know, intermediate range or even not necessarily bubble screens,

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Speaker 1: but like you know, just in those crossing patterns, are

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Speaker 1: they setting up with Alec Pierce. We've know Alec Pierce

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Speaker 1: is a deep ball threat. Are the Colts setting it

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Speaker 1: up now, Steven where all of a sudden, Alec Pierce

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Speaker 1: is going to become a dual threat receiver. Where they're

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Speaker 1: going to come in with plays where he does a

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Speaker 1: slight hitch and then go route based off of getting

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Speaker 1: used to seeing him coming across the middle.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that has been an issue with

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Speaker 2: their offense in the past, and they I think in

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Speaker 2: the self scouting, they realized this over the offseason. One

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Speaker 2: of the things that I think has been too limiting

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Speaker 2: is that everybody has been a little predictable in their roles.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about the wide receivers, right, we know what

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Speaker 2: Josh down is going to do or you know, generally

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Speaker 2: speaking right, not saying every single time, but you can

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Speaker 2: kind of predict the kinds of routes each guy's going

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Speaker 2: to run. And for Alec Pears, it was all right,

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Speaker 2: you're the guy who's going to clear it out with

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Speaker 2: the deep routes most of the time, or at least intermediate,

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Speaker 2: and they they brought that to they sort of made

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Speaker 2: that a priority this offseason to kind of figure out

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Speaker 2: the way to address that. So this was a very

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Speaker 2: conscious thing. I heard about it this past offseason, and

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Speaker 2: I think you're starting to see it. You know, Pierce,

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Speaker 2: getting him involved in the way that they have is

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Speaker 2: not going to hurt him at all. It can only help,

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Speaker 2: as you said, if you now have to worry about

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Speaker 2: him maybe breaking that route inside as opposed to taking

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Speaker 2: it down the sideline. You're going to cover him differently,

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Speaker 2: and maybe maybe it is an out and up right,

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Speaker 2: and maybe he's not going to break that route off.

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Speaker 2: So listen, you're making it tougher when you are less

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Speaker 2: predictable for the defense, and I think it's all good.

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Speaker 2: I would also say the Tyler Warren effect is just

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Speaker 2: spectacular because I'm just putting a story together now, like,

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Speaker 2: how are they doing this? What's happening offensively? And one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons is the diversity of their weapons, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of what you're getting at here, and they

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Speaker 2: with Tyler Warren, he's he's the best one in terms

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Speaker 2: of the diversity because he hurts the defense at all

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Speaker 2: three levels. So that's what you gotta do. You got to,

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Speaker 2: you know, you got to be unpredictable and they have

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Speaker 2: to not know what's coming.

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Speaker 3: And that's true.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Steven, We're going to do one of my

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Speaker 1: Jake Querry hypotheticals here. Okay, what's happened very unlike you,

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Speaker 1: but go ahead, speaking of predictable. Okay, So Roger Goodell

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Speaker 1: calls you on the phone. He says, Steven, you've been

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Speaker 1: a good guy for us. You've covered the league. You've

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Speaker 1: you've worked, you've covered owners meetings, you know, you've been around.

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Speaker 1: So we are going to award you an NFL franchise.

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Speaker 1: So you get to pick Steven Holder a city in

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Speaker 1: the United States that does not have We've done this before.

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Speaker 1: I realize that has never had an NFL franchise and

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Speaker 1: only has a maximum of two other pro sports franchises

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Speaker 1: in town. You, Stephen Holder, decide that your franchise is

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Speaker 1: going to be playing where what city?

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Speaker 3: Hmm, this is tricky.

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Speaker 2: Uh, let's see a maximum of two other pro franchises.

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Speaker 3: You said, Okay, well, that makes it tough.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I don't know. I was going to say Orlando,

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Speaker 2: but Florida sucks in terms of sports markets, so we're

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Speaker 2: not doing that. No, I'm Florid. Austin was going to

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Speaker 2: say Austin. I was actually thinking Austin, I was thinking that,

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Speaker 2: but but I was only I was thinking though, So

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Speaker 2: I mean that that gives them one that would that

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Speaker 2: be their third football team?

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Speaker 1: I guess in the state, but out of the city,

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Speaker 1: We're okay, it's big enough, Austin, Toro's are going to

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Speaker 1: be the Steven Holder own team. Now here's the thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now you the the league is going to assign for

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Speaker 1: you a general manager, a team president, and head coach,

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Speaker 1: so a holy trinity of three decision makers. And you,

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Speaker 1: because you were awarded the franchise, you have nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with this. They're going to build the roster, They're

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Speaker 1: going to do everything. You have no saying that whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: But they doing an expansion draft. Well, okay, so they

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Speaker 1: have an expansion draft, all the scrubs. Here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: So they do the expansion draft. Okay. In the expansion draft,

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Speaker 1: the guys that have been selected in this fictional team

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Speaker 1: get to pick one offensive player off every roster in

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Speaker 1: the NFL. Who do you believe if all had to

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Speaker 1: be left unprotected, who do you believe is the offensive

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Speaker 1: player of the Indianapolis Colts that would be the first selected. Wow,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason I asked this.

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Speaker 3: This is tough. I so.

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Speaker 2: This is maybe not the trendy answer because of the position.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sorry. Specialty players, specialty players, not not lineman. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: specialty players.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I know, yeah, but I still think Jonathan

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Speaker 2: Taylor is where this offense begins and ends.

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Speaker 1: Okay, see, I will the reason I say it, I

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Speaker 1: will respectfully disagree. I think it's Tyler Warren, and I

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Speaker 1: think the reason it's Tyler Warren.

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Speaker 3: Is because my second choice.

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Speaker 1: I think Tyler Warren. And I know we're only two

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Speaker 1: games in, but you tell me if I'm wrong. I

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Speaker 1: think Tyler Warren has the more versatile skill set that

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Speaker 1: is the least replicated amongst his peers in a smaller

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Speaker 1: group of people.

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Speaker 2: Now, that's actually I do agree with that. I was

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Speaker 2: just putting something together here. He leads the NFL, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: he leads all tight ends in receiving yards one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty five receiving yards. And I think his the

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Speaker 2: versatility that I was just talking about. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: think about it. I mean, you can put this guy

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Speaker 2: in the backfield, you can the screens that they can

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Speaker 2: run with him. You can throw him deep routes, I

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Speaker 2: know which they just did. I think. I'm just telling

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Speaker 2: you he is more than I expected him to be.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and I expected a.

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Speaker 3: Hell of a lot.

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Speaker 1: Listen, when you have Bernard Rayman and Quentin Nelson, who

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Speaker 1: are very good players, right, when you have guys like that,

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Speaker 1: then you have them there because that reduces the chances

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Speaker 1: of the pocket collapsing. Tyler Warren reduces the chances of

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Speaker 1: the pocket collapsing only because so long as he's floating

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Speaker 1: around within eight to ten yards of the line of scrimmage,

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Speaker 1: you can just get the ball out there before the

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Speaker 1: pocket collapses, and he is going to make a play

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Speaker 1: on it, right Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 2: He's their toughest matchup right now. They don't defenses don't

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Speaker 2: really have a great plan when it comes to dealing

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Speaker 2: with him. I mean he went up against Patrick Surtan

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Speaker 2: the other day and made a tight catch against tych

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Speaker 2: coverage from Patrick Surtan, the defensive player of the year.

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Speaker 2: But great throw by the way by Daniel Jones, who

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what has happened to

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Speaker 2: this guy, by the way, doctor Gouf subject, But like

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Speaker 2: he's throwing the ball into windows where I would never

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Speaker 2: expect Daniel Jones to throw.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what's happened to him, Steven, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what's happened to him. Okay, you're gonna laugh when

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Speaker 1: I say this. I've thought about this. Here's what's happened

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Speaker 1: to m The New York Jets. Okay, the New York Jets.

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Speaker 1: Who's the best quarterback in New York Jet history of

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Speaker 1: the last fifty years?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Namo?

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Speaker 1: Okay, since Joe Namath. How many you know, Richard Todd? Like,

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Speaker 1: how many quarterbacks? Quarterbacks get drafted by the Jets to die?

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Speaker 1: Right that we know it is the New York Giants,

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Speaker 1: the New York Football Giants. Eli Manning. Eli Manning, who

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Speaker 1: grew up around in understood football pressure from the time

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Speaker 1: he came out of the womb. He saw his dad

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Speaker 1: run for his life, he saw his brother playing, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Eli Manning was groomed to be an NFL quarterback. Outside

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Speaker 1: of that, Phil Simms was a hell of a player,

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Speaker 1: no question about it, right, But Phil Simms also had

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Speaker 1: a coach that was the type that took all the

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Speaker 1: pressure and deflected it off his team. Parcels was in

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Speaker 1: that Night Mold right of like it stops with me.

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Speaker 1: I'm the guy that that market. You can't adequately judge

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Speaker 1: what a quarterback is able to do in his initial

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Speaker 1: years in the NFL if he is getting his start

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Speaker 1: with the Giants or the Jets, because outside of maybe

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Speaker 1: three examples I gave, and those were all unique situations

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Speaker 1: that you can't adequately judge it. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: this means that Daniel Jones is going to come here

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Speaker 1: and suddenly become Joe Montana, but I just think that

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Speaker 1: we are starting to see that it was an unfair

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Speaker 1: judgment on who he was based on the dumpster fire

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Speaker 1: that he was playing for and all that comes with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say on that along those lines,

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Speaker 2: I think I see a more confidence.

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Speaker 3: Player right now, totally right.

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Speaker 2: I mean you can see it. Like even from week

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Speaker 2: one to two, I saw even more. I mean, he

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Speaker 2: was better in week two than week one. And you

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Speaker 2: talk about dumpster fires. He was playing a dumpster fire

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Speaker 2: of a team in week one in Miami and playing

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Speaker 2: a real NFL defense in week two, and he was better.

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Speaker 2: All right, there's there's a guy. This is a guy

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Speaker 2: who was playing with confidence. That's why he's standing in there,

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Speaker 2: tall in that pocket and not powering from that pass rush.

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Speaker 2: He was really affected by the pass rush in New

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Speaker 2: York and he was pressured on Sunday week one. He

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Speaker 2: really didn't get any pressure this week, because which is

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Speaker 2: why I was. I was I was sort of skeptical.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, well, yeah, anybody can do that

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Speaker 2: when you never get touched. But this week there was

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Speaker 2: some pressure. I mean, they protected him pretty well, but

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Speaker 2: they came after him and there was pressure. He was

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Speaker 2: blizzed by the way. He was blissed at the highest

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Speaker 2: rate in a single game in his career. Okay, do

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Speaker 2: you hear me in his career, and he had a

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Speaker 2: fantastic game For a guy who never reacted well to pressure.

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Speaker 2: This is a confidence player right now. He is completely

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Speaker 2: unbothered and there is something something has changed within his psyche.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get all psychoanalytical here, but I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you that's what it feels like. I don't I

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Speaker 2: can't see his reada's mind, but it feels like something

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Speaker 2: has changed mentally for Daniel Jos. He's just playing with

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Speaker 2: a different.

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Speaker 1: Air of confidence, which leads to this. In conclusion, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: as Daniel Jones continues to grow, and it's two games,

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Speaker 1: I have to keep her in mind of it. It's two games,

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Speaker 1: right for sure? And do I believe that Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: is now all of a sudden This means he's going

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Speaker 1: to be a twelve year player for the Indianapolis Colts,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know that, but if in fact he

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Speaker 1: has a firm grip on the competency and the continued

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Speaker 1: growth at the quarterback position, and assuming he stays healthy

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Speaker 1: in a league right now where we already see Joe

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Speaker 1: Burrows out right, JJ McCarthy questionable, Jaden Daniels, you know,

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Speaker 1: get to miss a little bit of time, Caleb Boyd

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Speaker 1: or Justin Field's get to miss a little bit of time.

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Speaker 1: And it's only going to increase as quarterbacks continue to

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Speaker 1: not be available in the National Football League week to week,

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Speaker 1: and I know that they've said they're not going to

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Speaker 1: do it. Does this increase any trade value for Anthony

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Speaker 1: Richardson for teams midway through the year, especially if it's

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Speaker 1: very clear that, barring injury, he doesn't get snaps in Indy?

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Speaker 3: It does.

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Speaker 2: The only caveat I would I would mention is this,

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Speaker 2: I think with those situations, for one thing, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: week two and we're already talking about rampant quarterback injury.

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Speaker 2: So every quarterback with with you know who's intriguing their

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Speaker 2: values going up I think by the day, so he

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Speaker 2: would be among them. The only issue with Anthony is this,

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Speaker 2: I think he's more of a longer term project. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's not a guy you're coming into coming in on

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Speaker 2: the white horse to save the day. I think that's

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Speaker 2: the veteran quarterback who the Joe Flacco of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and twenty three for example, right with Cleveland. You're looking

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Speaker 2: for that kind of guy. Oftentimes, if you need a

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Speaker 2: guy for three or four weeks and not Anthony Richardson,

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Speaker 2: who you're going to have to get up to speed

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Speaker 2: and he's going to have to learn your offense, maybe

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Speaker 2: that's not the best situation for him. So I think

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Speaker 2: that underminds his trade value a little bit in that scenario,

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Speaker 2: if that makes sense. But generally speaking, yes, all these

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Speaker 2: quarterbacks who are out there their values going up. And

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Speaker 2: I would say this to close, there might be a

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Speaker 2: scenario where you just say to yourself, you know what, Look,

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Speaker 2: we don't need him to run the full playbook.

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Speaker 3: Let's bring him in.

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Speaker 2: Let's just figure something out, and he's a good enough

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Speaker 2: athlete that we can make it work for a few weeks.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There might be somebody out there who says, who's crazy

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Speaker 2: enough to say that and try it?

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Speaker 3: And i'd let's see it. I'm here for it.

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Speaker 1: If it happens, Stevenholer ESPN dot com, your upcoming story

435
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: will involve of what Steven.

436
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: Well, two things.

437
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: Check out today's piece on the TUSS push, and there's

438
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 2: all sorts of issues surrounding that and why no one

439
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: else can figure out how to run the damn thing.

440
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: And then we're also running through a ticking down all

441
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 2: the reasons this close offense is playing at a historic

442
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: level right now, which I never thought I'd be saying

443
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five.

444
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: It is pretty crazy. But a number of ways in

445
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: which they are doing it, Tyler Warren doing things at

446
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: the tight end position they have not seen in some time,

447
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: their offensive efficiency, their points, all of it right now,

448
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: exactly where Shane Steiken could have only hoped. STEVENHOLDERESPN dot

449
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: com joining us, Steven appreciate it as always, man, go Austin, Toros,

450
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: All right, let's go, all right, Steven Holder on the program,

451
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: joining us now on the program. We have talked to

452
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: him before. He is, without question the gold standard when

453
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: it comes to athletic training, the knowledge thereof in all

454
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: forms of athletics. As I mentioned, he has overseen the

455
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: athletic training or the medical staffs in planning for thirty five,

456
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: if not more, different major sporting events that have come

457
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: through Indianapolis. Ralph Frief joining us from REEF Executive Performance Solutions,

458
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk to you, Ralph about a

459
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: number of different injuries, just because this is the time

460
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: of year where you start hearing him and sometimes you

461
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: start hearing about injuries that people are not as familiar with.

462
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to Tyre's Halliburton as well, but I

463
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: want to begin with this one. Joe Burrow is now

464
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: going to be out a month with turf toe. And

465
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: I remember Marshall Falk had turf toe at some point

466
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: when he was here, and I always just assumed turf

467
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: toe is like when you get up in the middle

468
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: of the night to get a glass of water and

469
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: you stub your toe and the foot rest that you

470
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: didn't realize was there. But what exactly is turf toe?

471
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it's great to be with you, Jake, and yeah,

472
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 5: that middle of the night stubbing the toe is where

473
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 5: you're basically jamming bone surface against bone surface, So it's

474
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 5: sort of a straight line impact turf toe. You get

475
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 5: into multiple angles. So in this particular case, quarterback Joe

476
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 5: Burrows was sort of crunched to the ground, his foot

477
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 5: and ankle got squeezed up, and he got a hyper

478
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 5: extension of his big toe. So if you imagine going

479
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 5: down and grabbing your big toe and just pulling it

480
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 5: up as far as you possibly can. And so he

481
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 5: had a significant injury to the plate or the bottom

482
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 5: of that big toe, and it's quite debilitating and a

483
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 5: lot of soft tissue injury. He ended up going up

484
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 5: to Wisconsin to see doctor Robert Anderson, a very very

485
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 5: good foot and ankle specialist, for that particular surgery.

486
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: Okay, and that surgery would it just be I'm gonna

487
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: sound like an idiot here, Ralph. Now, first off, I

488
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: will tell you the thought of bending my big toe

489
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: backwards as far as it can go. I winced along

490
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: with everybody else when I heard that. And by the way,

491
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: speaking of WinCE, he's also going to get playing time

492
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: another injury. JJ McCarthy of Minnesota. But is it a

493
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: matter of basically just putting the toe back in place

494
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: and then holding it there so everything around it can heal,

495
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: because the toe is an area that obviously is under

496
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: constant movement.

497
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 5: Well, for that all great questions, Jake, And the issue

498
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 5: would be that upon further diagnosis, clear diagnosis of the structure,

499
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 5: with all the various imaging opportunities that are available, plus

500
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: the just the intuitive expertise of the physician, there's a

501
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 5: number of small pieces to that big toe that are

502
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: absolutely critical to function. So if it was if the

503
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 5: matter of maybe the tendon that if you were to

504
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 5: grab your you know, sort of push your toes into

505
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 5: the ground right now, all that force comes from tendons

506
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 5: along the bottom of the foot that go up the

507
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 5: back of the leg and so forth, and so he's

508
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 5: obviously damaged that to some degree. And so the other

509
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 5: element there are really two small bones think of them

510
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 5: as small BB's or pearls, called the cesmoid bones. And

511
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 5: those cesmoid bones are embedded within tendons, and they can

512
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 5: actually get cracked, can lose their formation or their place,

513
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 5: and those are so critical to the biomechanics and function

514
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 5: of the tow that if those were damaged, those needed

515
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 5: to be placed back in their original location and embedded

516
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: there through his surgical procedure.

517
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 4: And so the sesamoid bones.

518
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 5: Think of it a little bit like with IndyCar it'd

519
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 5: almost be like your front end. I think push rods

520
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 5: are the rocker arm that absorbs for worse that's going

521
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: vertical and you want to go horizontal, And the sesimoid

522
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 5: bones sort of form that same function. You don't know

523
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 5: they're there until they're injured. And so that's my bet

524
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 5: is those sesimoid bones got displaced and surgically needed to

525
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 5: be put back into place. And probably the flexor tendon

526
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 5: that caused you to curl your toes up probably need

527
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 5: a little bit of repair as well.

528
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: You know what, Ralph, like I could, I could talk

529
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: to you for six hours about this for two reasons.

530
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: Number one, I find it fascinating. Number two, you have

531
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: a unique ability to speak in new a language that

532
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: somewhat of my lack of intellect can grasp right. And

533
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: number three, and I think this is probably the most

534
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: important thing in like medical training. You just have like

535
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: this calming delivery about it, right where like it just

536
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: it's enjoyable to listen to. So I find it fascinating.

537
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna ask an additional question I had not planned,

538
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: and that's this because I think it's important people that

539
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: are listening right now on and we'll get back into

540
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: some of these NFL injuries rol Free in a second.

541
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: But for people that are weekend Warriors, people that are

542
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: let's say thirty five to fifty to fifty five years old,

543
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: that are going out to stay in shape and they're

544
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: running the monon or they're maybe going to the gym

545
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: and lifting some light weights, what's the most common injury

546
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: that people feel a symptom for and overlook that is

547
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: actually something that they do need to look into. And

548
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: what's the most common one that people freak out and

549
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: think is debilitating but really it's fairly innocuous and not

550
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: something of concern.

551
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 5: Well, Jake, that's a yeah, that's a six hour question.

552
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: But many years ago, when I was at sensioned St.

553
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: Vincent Sports Performance, we saw a number of weekend Warriors

554
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 5: as well as the lead athletes, and we did some

555
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 5: reverse engineering and why were people coming in with various

556
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 5: primarily lower extremity injuries. My front of my knee hurts,

557
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 5: pain under my kneecap, the bottom of my foot, planet

558
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 5: fasci itis.

559
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: Those kinds of things.

560
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 5: And when we did the reverse engineering on that, we

561
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 5: found out that it wasn't so much running on the

562
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 5: flat surface of the monon. It was when a limb

563
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 5: might fall down north of the river and broad ripple

564
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 5: and fall across the monon and you had to jump

565
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 5: over it. And it was that motion that was unnatural.

566
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 5: That jumping mechanism put an additional strain on your body.

567
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 5: That's in this methodical locomotive kind of motion that caused

568
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 5: that injury.

569
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 4: And it's it's that.

570
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 5: Thing you feel, whether it's a sharp pain or it's

571
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 5: a dull ache, or it feels a little bit fat

572
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 5: and swollen, but you really can't see it when you

573
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 5: get home or the next day. That's something you ought

574
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 5: to have looked at because you might be dealing with

575
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 5: a tear of meniscus in the knee that you just

576
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 5: didn't think couldn't have happened. But those are the kinds

577
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 5: of things that that really create issues. And we could

578
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 5: go on and on there. There's you pick, you pick

579
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 5: a joint or a soft tissue in the body, and

580
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 5: we could talk a long time about it.

581
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: Well the okay, so to get to the point of

582
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden feeling like kind of

583
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: that that quick burn of that little pop where you

584
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: just think like whoa you know, in the case of

585
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: Tyre's Halliburton with an achilles, you know, it's obvious and

586
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: it's debilitating. You could see that. Everybody saw that in

587
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: that game. We talked to you. Then, in regards to

588
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton's recovery, I want to be clear, Ralph Reef,

589
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: for your protection, I guess you know you are not

590
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: individually to my knowledge, working with Tyre's Halliburton, but speaking

591
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: in generate, in generality about a recovery from that sort

592
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: of an injury. If that took place some now three

593
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: months ago for Tyrese Haliburton and he is now out

594
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: of the boot, that would appear to be on schedule,

595
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: ahead of schedule. Is there any way to kind of

596
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: analyze from afar what that means?

597
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, and yes, I have no affiliation with Tyrese

598
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 5: Haliburton's recovery, healthcare, et cetera. So I appreciate you mentioning

599
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 5: that the just to put that in perspective. What you said,

600
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 5: his surgery was actually three months ago today, okay, the

601
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 5: sixteenth of June, and so what's that ninety two days

602
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 5: if I counted right. His surgery was the following Monday,

603
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 5: at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City

604
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 5: on Monday the twenty third, So he's eighty two days

605
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 5: out from that repair of the achilles and we don't

606
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 5: know what else was done or the exact type of procedures.

607
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 5: There's you know, there's there's different ways of making spaghetti sauce, right,

608
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 5: and so there's different ways of repairing Theilles tendon as well.

609
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 5: But he went to the Hospital for Special Surgery for

610
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 5: a reason. The person there is really good and they've done.

611
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 4: A lot of high level.

612
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 5: Athletes who have made return to sport, and so he

613
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 5: is on schedule.

614
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 4: That's my opinion.

615
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: I saw some social excuse me, I saw some social

616
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 5: media stuff.

617
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 4: I've seen him at fever.

618
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 5: Games walking round, excuse me, and.

619
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: He is on schedule, is my sense.

620
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 5: And I did notice on social media that he's wearing

621
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 5: a strap around.

622
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 4: His knee, and folks may have seen that too.

623
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 5: That's a firefly scrap that continuously puts his gentle pulse

624
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 5: of electricity into the peraneal nerve, which is on the

625
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 5: side of the leg, and it simulates blood flow throughout

626
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 5: the whole lower leg and into the Achilles tendon area.

627
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 4: So one of the big things.

628
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 5: That can reduce a good repair, To reduce the optimal

629
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 5: outcome is the amount of blood flow that you get

630
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 5: into the areas sort of to bathe that surgical repair,

631
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 5: you want to bait it in good, rich blood, and

632
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 5: without activity.

633
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 4: You can't do that.

634
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 5: So being in the boot is necessary. But to have

635
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 5: this continuous stimulation through this firefly strap is a is

636
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 5: an excellent way to get that done. He can use

637
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 5: that on an airplane, riding in a car, sitting in

638
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 5: a chair. He can use it all the time. So

639
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 5: he's got this continual activity that is assisting his body

640
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 5: with repair. By all indications, he's on schedule.

641
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: Ralph Reef is our guest again. Reef Executive Performance Solutions

642
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: and of course Ralph Reef dot com. That's r E

643
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: I F F Ralph Freef dot com where you can

644
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: read more about his work, also his speaking and the

645
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: work that he's done in terms of training. Ralph. One

646
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: last one for you here. We hear a lot about

647
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: this with NFL quarterbacks right now, and that is concussion protocol.

648
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: You know, we're all familiar with the fact that a

649
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: player shows symptom of a concussion, they go into the protocol.

650
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: Is there any sort of a baseline when it comes

651
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: to concussions of you know, is that the hardest one

652
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: I guess to put a blanket statement on because does

653
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: it seem to have the widest spectrum between the severe

654
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: and the not as severe, but all having to kind

655
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: of be treated the same. Because when you're talking about neurologically,

656
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: you have to be very careful, more so perhaps than

657
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: other areas well.

658
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 5: Severity of a concussion should not come into the initial diagnosis.

659
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 5: A contested brain, a brain that moves from psyche decide

660
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 5: within the skull and it sort of washes back and

661
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 5: forth on a microscopic level. That's what creates the bruising

662
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 5: or the concussion to the brain tissue when it hits

663
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 5: the wall of the skull. And so to determine the

664
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 5: severity is really not done at the time of the injury,

665
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 5: whether someone's knocked out or whether they just walk off

666
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 5: the field and all of a sudden they ask their

667
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 5: teammate a really unusual question, okay, or the spotter upstairs

668
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 5: notices an imbalance in posture and so they red flag

669
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 5: the person. The severity of the concussion really comes down

670
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 5: the road and it really is how long does that

671
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 5: concussed brain take to heal, how long does it take

672
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 5: to recover to normal function. So severity, unfortunately, is hard

673
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 5: to manage. It's hard to say whether going to be

674
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 5: out five days, ten days, you know, any multiple of that.

675
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 4: And so the baseline is done.

676
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 5: There's a number of different ways that NFL teams, collegiate teams,

677
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 5: high school teams, all sports around the world baseline brain activity.

678
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 5: And there's an impact testing which was intended in the

679
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 5: University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Pittsburgh. Obviously UPMC has the

680
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 5: Impact test. There's a sway balance test, there's a SCAT

681
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 5: six score. These are all things that we in healthcare

682
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 5: baseline and if there's moms and dads listening, or an

683
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 5: athlete that just got out of college says, oh, yeah,

684
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 5: I had that done as a baseline, that's very common.

685
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 5: So then it's measured their progression or deterioration is compared

686
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 5: to that baseline. And so you repeat the testing and

687
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 5: you put the athlete.

688
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 4: You'll hear a lot about maybe a.

689
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 5: Five step sequence where they've got to go through a

690
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 5: a walking activity, get on a bicycle at a sub

691
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 5: maximal level, and then recover and do the symptoms still

692
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 5: stay Well, what are the symptoms?

693
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: Headache, can't focus.

694
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 5: Just don't feel good, foggy memory, can't balance on one leg,

695
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 5: And so you wait until those symptoms pass with low

696
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 5: level activity, then you go to high level activity, Jake.

697
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 4: Some athletes can just click through those.

698
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 5: Things on twenty four hour segments and they can be

699
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 5: back really fast. Other athletes, they don't respond as well.

700
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 5: And even to sit in a team room and study

701
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 5: is really really difficult. Now you're into severe injury. And

702
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 5: so that's why at the high school and college level

703
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 5: we put a lot of academic restrictions on student athletes

704
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 5: because of it will actually make the concussion symptom linger

705
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 5: a little longer. Not that that's a free pass to

706
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 5: get out of class, but you know, these are these

707
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 5: are serious situations, and so the concussion progression is truly

708
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 5: unique to that individual.

709
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: Ralph, I appreciate the explanations and the time, as always,

710
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: would love to have you back on as Inevitably, unfortunately

711
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: we see more injuries over the course of the season.

712
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: But for now, enjoy the remaining fabulous weather outside and

713
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll talk to you soon.

714
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: All right, heymen, take care of Jake, Ralph.

715
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: We've joining us on the program. So I hear that.

716
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: I know that. It means we're either going to be

717
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: talking with Stephanie White or Scott agnes Right, do you

718
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: not know what this song title is? Jake? Is this

719
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: Shake it up? Close?

720
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: Shake it off? Yes?

721
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: Sorry, I was thinking of the cars. Sorry, I mean,

722
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: come on, do I get some credit there? I have? Again?

723
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: I go back to I get it. I mean when

724
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: I went to the two shows over in Soa Oasis,

725
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: thought it was fabulous and people were all just coming

726
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: together having a good time. I get it.

727
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: It's cool.

728
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if Scott agnes knew Scott, did you

729
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: know that you share a common Taylor Swift interest with

730
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: Stephanie White?

731
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 6: It doesn't surprise me. But I know her country background,

732
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 6: so that suits it well given where Taylor Swift grew

733
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 6: up in the country world initially.

734
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's be real, if you were to make

735
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: a list of people that you have in common with

736
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: a Taylor Swift, you know, interest or appreciation, it would

737
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: be a pretty long list, right.

738
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 6: Oh, absolutely, yeah, there's good odds of that one.

739
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.

740
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to it. Scott agnesfield House Files joining

741
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: us on the program tonight. It is a win or

742
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: stay home, as I had mentioned, because if they win,

743
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: they go back to Atlanta for Game three. If Atlanta

744
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: is able to win, the year is over for the Fever,

745
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: and it would be disappointing to not advance. Admittedly, but

746
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 1: you have to say, when considering the injuries and everything

747
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: this team has gone through this year, it has still

748
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: been pretty positive just to get to the playoffs. But

749
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: let's focus on the now this game tonight, Scott, tell

750
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: me the things that Indiana did not do in Game

751
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: one that surprised you that need to be corrected.

752
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the number one thing to me is

753
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 6: just shooting. You can't go two of fifteen from three,

754
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 6: and we knew coming into this season. We thought it

755
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 6: was going to be one of the top three point

756
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 6: shooting teams, and then obviously injuries negatively affected that. But

757
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 6: no matter who's out there, you expect for them more

758
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 6: than two players that is to knock down some of

759
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 6: those shots. I thought, Given the fact also that the

760
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 6: Dream shot below forty percent and were held to a

761
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 6: couple bad quarters, and still the Fever weren't unable to

762
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 6: take advantage of that. And then probably the third thing

763
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 6: to me, Jake, is the fact that the Fever, despite

764
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 6: their issues and concerns with the officials, not just that

765
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 6: game but all season long, really is they attempted more

766
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 6: free throws and there were more fouls called against the Dream,

767
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 6: but still it was that really threw off the Fever's rhythm,

768
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 6: I thought, especially in the fourth quarter Boston with a

769
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 6: foul which was a bad one, one that I thought

770
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 6: was legitimate than Stephanie White technical Odyssey Sims technical Scott.

771
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: By the way, when I was talking about and I

772
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: asked Eddie, I said, so, you know, the Fever and

773
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: Atlanta split in the regular season, what did Indiana do

774
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: in the regular season that has eluded them so far?

775
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: And Eddie's immediate answer was, well, they had Caitlin Clark

776
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: to begin with, pretty big difference, right when you look

777
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: at their inability to shoot from the outside in Game

778
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: one and going two for fifteen. Sometimes Scott shooters just

779
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: there's a lid and it's just not going down for them.

780
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: Other times, though, you can look at it and say

781
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: Atlanta did something to take away open looks or Indiana

782
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: did not do something. They normally do to get shooters

783
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: open or in rhythm, where either one of those things

784
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,479
Speaker 1: presented in Game one. Yall.

785
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 6: First, I want to go back to their head to

786
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 6: head meetings. It was this really speaks to bores scheduling

787
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 6: on the WNBA. These two teams face two of the

788
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 6: first three games, and the season series of four games

789
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 6: was over in the first twenty games, before the midway

790
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 6: point of the season, before Caitlin's injury, and before they

791
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 6: lost four other players two season ending injuries. So I

792
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 6: think it was really a head to head matchup that

793
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 6: you can't garner too much from and for the dream

794
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 6: they also just needed time with this iteration. This group,

795
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 6: this is a team that if not for what the

796
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 6: Valkyries have done, I think you'd have Coach of the Year.

797
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 6: They more than double their win total and have really

798
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 6: had an oppressive season. Now, in terms of the three

799
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 6: point shooting for the Fever, I think one, it's the obvious.

800
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 6: It's personnel. You're dealing with a bench that didn't contribute much.

801
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 6: It's a bench that's limited in what they were doing.

802
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 6: They were out of the league and out of the country,

803
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 6: so I recognize that number one. And then defensively, they

804
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 6: were really this is the most physical team in the

805
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 6: league to me, and it really is jarring for the Fever.

806
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 6: It was all season long, and I think that physicality

807
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 6: number one took them out of their spots, didn't allow

808
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 6: them to easily cut through the lane or get to

809
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 6: their open corners. And then foul trouble I thought with

810
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 6: Aleah Boston was significant because the way they utilize her

811
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 6: is more of a point guard and trying to set

812
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 6: things up and her having to go to the bench

813
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 6: with five fouls first thing in the fourth quarter obviously

814
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 6: negated and negatively impacted what they were able to do

815
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 6: out there.

816
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: I thought when Indiana had the injuries they've had Scott

817
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: Scott Agnes, our guest from field House Files, I thought

818
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: the Fever perhaps would kind of reshuffle, if you will,

819
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: their offensive sets to become an Aliah Boston epicentered team.

820
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: And obviously Kelsey Mitchell has had an outstanding season, and

821
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: so Mitchell allowed them to continue to work on the perimeter.

822
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: If they incorporate the low post as much as they should,

823
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I would agree with that.

824
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 6: I'd like to see Aliah get more touches underneath, but

825
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 6: they also have been playing her outside on a long

826
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 6: numper more often. She had success there late in the game.

827
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 6: I mean we're talking about their starting center Jake, and

828
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 6: she led the team and assists. If that doesn't speak

829
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 6: to the state of this group and also the evolution

830
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 6: I think of Elia's game in her third year, but

831
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 6: I would like to see her get more touches, even

832
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 6: if it doesn't result in an automatic shot, but play

833
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 6: more of that inside out game. I will those stress

834
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 6: in this matchup that is a little bit more difficult

835
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 6: because of the size Bree Jones, Nas Hillman, Ryan Howard,

836
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 6: even they're playing, Britney Grinder played just eight minutes off

837
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 6: the bench, and that's another you probably Hall of Fame

838
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 6: type big. And by the way, my fun note of

839
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 6: the game is the last time the Fever had a

840
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 6: home playoff game, Britney Griner was in that one. She

841
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 6: was playing for Phoenix at the time. A Fever assistant

842
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 6: coach Brion January was on the court, and Stephanie White,

843
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 6: she was in year two coaching.

844
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: So it's been a while. That's what we're getting at, right.

845
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: It asked quite a bit Scott, what would you say though,

846
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: about you know, I guess basketball and sports in general

847
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: at times can be so mental, and you know, we

848
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: saw it in Game one. Perhaps there were times they

849
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: did lose their cool, you know, the technicals, you know

850
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: you mentioned, even with some calls that kind of went

851
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: their way. But overall and being around this franchise, this

852
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: group from a coaching standpoint, a players standpoint, how would

853
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: you explain the way that they navigated from a from

854
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 1: a mental standpoint, All that has gone into the attrition

855
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: of this season.

856
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's truly been remarkable, all the different things, even

857
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 6: early on with de Wanna Bonner less than a month

858
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 6: in wanting out, Stephanie White dealing with the death in

859
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 6: the family. She was away from the team for two games.

860
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 6: Nothing about this season has been typical. And I think

861
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 6: what they really did was rally around each other. About

862
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 6: a month into the season, they had a big road

863
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 6: trip out West, and I feel like that was one

864
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 6: of the changing points in this group and now, Jake,

865
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 6: it's one of the most tight, tightly wound groups, and

866
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 6: the chemistry and how they pour into each other is

867
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 6: one of the most impressive things, especially when you factor

868
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 6: in those individuals who haven't been around the team more

869
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 6: than a month, and how close they have seemingly got

870
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 6: engelled within the team, the challenges it's limiting what you

871
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 6: can do offensively, and the play calls and the certain things.

872
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 6: The thing they keep discussing is defensively some players not

873
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 6: being in the right spots and not communicating and such.

874
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 6: But I think to your point, I think the season

875
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 6: to me has gone far better than expected given the circumstances,

876
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 6: because they went they won more games in last season,

877
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 6: and that was not factoring in even the four more

878
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 6: games that they added this season. And so the fact

879
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 6: that Kelsey Mitchell is having the best season of her

880
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 6: career at Leah Boston's adapted Lexi Hall has literally laid

881
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 6: her body on the line. I don't think you can

882
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 6: say enough about it that even if the season does

883
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 6: end tonight, while disappointing, I'm not sure what else you

884
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 6: could have expected given these unprecedented injuries that they dealt

885
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 6: with all season.

886
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: And with that those and I hate to put the

887
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: cart before the horse here, because you know, I don't

888
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: think they lose tonight. Actually I think they go back

889
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: to Atlanta. But for the sake of the discussion, the

890
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: players that have come in as kind of emergency roster,

891
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, fill ins and those that were lost, I

892
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: mean like a Sophie Cunningham for example. And I am

893
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: naive to this, so I apologize. Contractually speaking, this team

894
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: will look similar or different next season.

895
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 6: How I would guess somewhat different. Here, here's the challenge

896
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 6: in all this, and I'm vague because there are so

897
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 6: many issues league wide that have not been resolved. We'll

898
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 6: start with the new collective bargaining agreement, then Jake, two

899
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 6: more teams added in. We don't know how expansion works,

900
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 6: we don't know how many players you can protect. And

901
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 6: then the other thing in all this, probably maybe the

902
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 6: biggest factor is the fact that all the players knew

903
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 6: it was going to be a new collective bargaining agreement,

904
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 6: heightened contracts that might be worth two or three times

905
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 6: what they're getting paid. Therefore, I think there were only

906
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 6: a couple players this offseason that signed multi year deals.

907
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 6: So I don't know what the percentage is, but it

908
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 6: feels like, you know, outside of rookies players on their

909
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 6: rookie scale contract, more than ninety percent of the league

910
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 6: will be free agents. Now, I think there is a

911
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 6: group of core players that you certainly hope will be back,

912
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 6: starting with Kelsey Mitchell. Leah Boston will still be on

913
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 6: the rookie deal. I don't foresee Alexi Hall or Sophie

914
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 6: Cunningham necessarily going anywhere, but that bench I think could

915
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 6: change quite a bit, both due to injuries like a

916
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 6: Sidney Colson, your third string point guard had acl surgery

917
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 6: in the middle of the season. What will she look

918
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 6: like next season or do you need to bring someone

919
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 6: that can help immediately? So I would say the roster

920
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 6: probably looks dramatically different just given the direction this league

921
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 6: is headed. But there are way more question marks than

922
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 6: answers at this juncture.

923
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: Scott Agne is our guest Fieldhouse Files, where you can

924
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: read his work Fever and The Atlanta Dream. Tonight, Scott,

925
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: let's switch to the pacer side of things. Your thoughts.

926
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: I have my own cynical thought here, but your thoughts

927
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: first and foremost on Tyre's Halliburton's shoe.

928
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is something a lot all these players cove it, right,

929
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 6: is to have a signature shoe, and clearly Nike wasn't

930
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 6: going to do it, and so he went to Puma

931
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 6: is able to do a lot more to it in

932
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 6: terms of involvement and design, and we know Tyrese is

933
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 6: big into fashion and so this means probably even more

934
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 6: to him. I do like how they're kind of doing

935
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 6: a rollout locally. I think that's often missed. So I

936
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 6: do like that. The design I'd like to see start

937
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 6: out with maybe more pacer colors or Iowa state color

938
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 6: or something like that. I think his first one, by

939
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 6: the way, was the boomer or pinstripe looking. I really

940
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 6: like that one from a fever or a pacer centric

941
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 6: shoe as he dropped it.

942
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to be not a cynic here, okay,

943
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 1: but I'm genuinely curious of this. Did it hurt? It

944
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: had to have, I mean, Puma had to have been like,

945
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. And I do not think they are affiliated.

946
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't think they're related. I want to be very

947
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: clear here. As a matter of fact, I love Puma's

948
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 1: and Adidas are my shoes, Like, I'm Puma's in Adidas

949
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: guys ninety nine percent of the time. But when when

950
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: you see the up close personal film clips of the

951
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: Haliburton injury and he's wearing low cut Puma shoes that

952
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: are basically the same design of what now are his

953
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: signature shoe. That has to be a marketing nightmare right.

954
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 6: A little bit, although I take it the other way

955
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 6: to remember that Game one comeback where he makes the

956
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 6: big shot. I think it was Game one down in OKC.

957
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 6: After the game, at his press conference he put his

958
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 6: brand new halle Ones, which are pink, I leave on

959
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 6: the court. So it was it, wrote the promo to me,

960
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 6: wrote itself ultimately.

961
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: But yeah, except for that, people, you know, you wonder

962
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: if there are people that are gonna say, oh, he

963
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: wasn't wearing a high top, that's why he didn't, that's

964
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: why he got hurt, et cetera. I know that that's ludicrous,

965
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: but I'm saying.

966
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 6: You know what I mean, I do, and I totally

967
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 6: understand that. I think they kind of got the best

968
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 6: of both worlds. They got the high moment of a

969
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 6: game winner wearing the shoes in its debut, and then

970
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 6: obviously the Achilles injury and all this. I'm fascinated by

971
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 6: this in general because we're seeing a lot more maybe

972
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 6: third party companies enter the fold with players, and a

973
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 6: lot more players wanting to do these brands with new

974
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 6: balance getting back into the fold, and Anta is a

975
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 6: big company overseas in particular. Now, most of these guys,

976
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 6: I think the high levels have their own orthotics and such.

977
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 6: But as we see maybe an uptick in injuries or

978
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 6: a change in injuries, the first thing I often wonder about,

979
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 6: to your point, is the shoe and the build, and

980
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 6: have we got away from function for style? I don't know,

981
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 6: but it feels like there is something there. I just

982
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 6: don't have anything to back it up.

983
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: I like Aaron Nesmith's shoes. Aaron Neesmith wears blue and

984
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: yellow New Balance. I think they're cool shoes.

985
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I haven't bought a New Balance in a while,

986
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 6: but everybody seems to be raving about them.

987
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: Halliburton ones are cool for sure. Now how many different

988
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: colors will they initially come out with.

989
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 6: Well, we already did the pink one, and so I

990
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 6: think this is the second one that we know of.

991
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 6: I would guess there's four or five in the first year,

992
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 6: but I think a lot of that certainly depends on

993
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 6: the demand, and him being out this season probably is

994
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 6: the worst factor in all that, because he won't be

995
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 6: wearing him on the court and there'll be no visuals

996
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 6: there from him in game.

997
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: And this is a dumb question. Do you know how

998
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: much they'll be? One and forty dollars? That's and look,

999
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: that's a lot of money. And I know for a

1000
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: lot of people, I mean, that's a lot of money,

1001
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: but for a basketball shoe of an upper echelon NBA player,

1002
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: that's pretty much market value.

1003
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, I'm sorry, one hundred and thirty. I should

1004
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 6: get it right, one thirty. The kid's shoe is one ten.

1005
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 6: I think what we have seen I forget who it was.

1006
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 6: Maybe Shack or like a Brandon Jennings wanted to make it.

1007
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 6: Maybe it was No, it was Damian Lillard most recently,

1008
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, in Adidas, and I think he is not

1009
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 6: only having a shoe available at like one hundred dollars,

1010
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 6: but he's going to wear that shoe. So it's a

1011
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 6: lesser shoe, but he's going to wear it on court

1012
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 6: and say, hey, look, you know, if it's good enough

1013
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 6: for me, it's good enough for you.

1014
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: But that you know what I mean. Shaq eventually did that.

1015
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: Marbury did it, and people kind of made fun of it,

1016
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: but I thought it was cool that Marbury did it,

1017
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Had his own line, the

1018
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: Starberry shoe. You know, there was a time Scott. The

1019
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: shoe thing to me is fascinating because you know, obviously

1020
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: Jordan was the epicenter of this, and I remember, you know,

1021
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: when the Air Jordans came out, David Letterman had a

1022
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: fabulous line about that on Letterman and when he was

1023
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: getting fined for it initially, but then every player started

1024
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: getting their own shoe, and then it got to the

1025
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: point where it went like too far the other way,

1026
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: where it seems to me, in other words, like we're

1027
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: back to the point where you have to be a

1028
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: start like in other words, it is a compliment to

1029
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton that he has his own designed shoe because

1030
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: I mean there was a time there where, like you know,

1031
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: Jordan Poole was getting a shoe, you know whatever. But

1032
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: they kind of scaled that back, did they not?

1033
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 6: Oh, I think a little bit. But because you're seeing

1034
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 6: more shoe companies enter the NBA and get players to

1035
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 6: wear them, I think Puma is a perfect example. Like

1036
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 6: five seven years ago, I'm not sure anybody wore Puma.

1037
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 6: Well remember Puma in basketball and so and so as

1038
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 6: part of that what I'm getting at is you have

1039
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 6: more more opportunities for players to get their own shoe,

1040
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 6: like LaMelo Ball who hasn't really done much in the

1041
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 6: league as marketable. But Puma's kind of leaned into that.

1042
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 6: But you're absolutely right, number one, you're a big baller brand.

1043
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 6: I think he later admitted that's part of the reason

1044
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 6: I think he had that injury.

1045
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

1046
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: I mean not yeah, but you know what I mean, Hey, Scott,

1047
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: before we let you go, Eddie points this out, but

1048
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you a chance to expand on it.

1049
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: Pacers are back working out at Pascal Ciautcomes House, right.

1050
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1051
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 6: This is the second straight year that Pascal's hosted them

1052
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 6: down to Orlando, Florida. He's got an incredible gym down there.

1053
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 6: It's really his off season home and so it's a

1054
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 6: player's only mini camp where they can get in whatever

1055
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 6: work they want with within each other, for each other.

1056
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: Often.

1057
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 6: I think it was last year, maybe they brought the

1058
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 6: maybe it was Tyres or a player too, brought in

1059
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 6: a couple speakers. They have team dinners together. This is

1060
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 6: the start the formation of what this group does leading

1061
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 6: into training camp, which Jake believe it or not two

1062
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 6: weeks from today.

1063
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Believable, well unbelievable, but you know what good I mean.

1064
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: And again I keep going back to like you think, like,

1065
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: oh man, I'm so excited just in the finals. It

1066
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: is going to be a different team. But I think

1067
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: that there are areas that are going to be that

1068
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm very intrigued by with it, including what Huff can

1069
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: do and you know why men, and you know there

1070
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: are still some big question marks for certain and some

1071
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: big areas of intrigued. Fieldhouse Files where you can read

1072
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: about all of that, including tonight's game between the Fever

1073
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: and the Atlanta Dreams. Scott Agnes will have all of it.

1074
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: Scott appreciate it as always my pleasure to thank you,

1075
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: Jake Scott Agnes joining us on the show.