1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,160
Speaker 1: And good afternoon, and welcome to the Gun Guy Show

2
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,320
Speaker 1: here on ninety three w ib C. We're glad you're

3
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: with us a lot to talk about. One thing that

4
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,479
Speaker 1: a lot of folks have contacted me about that I

5
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: will not be discussing with any specificity at all or

6
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,000
Speaker 1: directly is the shooting in Whitestown. And it was a

7
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,919
Speaker 1: horrible tragedy. As anyone knows who's familiar with the process

8
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: and familiar with the case, there is no case this

9
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,160
Speaker 1: open investigation, but there was a tragic shooting. It really

10
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,240
Speaker 1: looked like due to mistake, a cleaning crew went to

11
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 1: the wrong house's And that's about as much as I'm

12
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,200
Speaker 1: going to say about it. Because I've been hired by

13
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:49,279
Speaker 1: a party involved due to the obvious self defense issues

14
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 1: there and to assist them through that investigation. I've talked

15
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: to the Boone County Prosecutor and been in contact with

16
00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Whitestown Police and they are doing I think a very

17
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 1: esational and thorough investigation, and we'll see where that goes.

18
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I'm not going to be talking

19
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: about that case on the radio. If anybody has questions

20
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,119
Speaker 1: about that case, I'm going to have to say I'm sorry,

21
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: I can't discuss it. I think to be a professional,

22
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,399
Speaker 1: that's the only option. If somebody has general questions about

23
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,959
Speaker 1: the law of self defense and how the law of

24
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,920
Speaker 1: self defense operates in Indiana, I'm happy to answer those

25
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,680
Speaker 1: generic questions, not with application to that specific shooting. And

26
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,600
Speaker 1: I've been talking about those issues for a generation or more.

27
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 1: That's what I teach in my classes. So the law

28
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 1: is the law, and I'm happy to discuss those issues.

29
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 1: So if you have questions about the law of self defense,

30
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,600
Speaker 1: you have questions about the castle doctrine, our standard ground law,

31
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,080
Speaker 1: what's the difference. What makes Indiana's law a castle doctrine

32
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: or a standard ground law. If you just want to

33
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: know how the law operates in this area, hypothetically or generically, Hey,

34
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: that's fair game. I've been discussing those issues and teaching

35
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: those issues for a long long time, So give us

36
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 1: a call, join the discussion. We really do want to

37
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: take your calls throughout the show as we always do

38
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 1: Area code three one seven ninety three ninety three, and

39
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 1: you will actually if you call in here during this show,

40
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 1: you will get to talk to celebrity guest producer Kylon

41
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 1: tally is Is is producing the show tonight. Producer Jack

42
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 1: has gone on to a career outside WIBC, and so

43
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,680
Speaker 1: we were lucky enough to uh to actually score again

44
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 1: guest celebrity producer Kylon. Tell you can see Kylon in

45
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 1: productions over at Indiana Repertory Theater at other neighborhood theaters

46
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,520
Speaker 1: around Indianapolis. She is an accomplished actress and uh and

47
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 1: we love having her here producing the show. So Kylin,

48
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here.

49
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Out of all of the shows that

50
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 2: I'm constantly producing on this station, it's honored to be here.

51
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,080
Speaker 1: See there you go. That's why we like Kylon right there,

52
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,640
Speaker 1: But give us a call join the discussion. Three one

53
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 1: seven two three nine ninety three. Well, there's a lot

54
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: going on in front of the Supreme Court. In fact,

55
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,200
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court has agreed to take the Hermiani case,

56
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,079
Speaker 1: and you've heard me talk about that. That is a

57
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: case involving a person who was ostensibly prohibited from possessing

58
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: firearms by federal law because he was a quote unquote

59
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 1: user of or addicted to illegal drugs, specifically marijuana. And

60
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 1: we'll see where that goes and what the Supreme Court

61
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: does with that. But in the meantime, there are several

62
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 1: other cases that the Supreme Court is considering and may

63
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: very likely take, and it's going to be really interesting

64
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: to see what they do in terms of those cases.

65
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: And some of them are I think cases that the

66
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 1: Supreme Court absolutely positively should take. These are issues that

67
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 1: need to be considered, things like a so called high

68
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: capacity magazine ban, things like Florida's relatively new law while

69
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 1: they passed it after the Parkland shooting at Marjorie Stoneman

70
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,360
Speaker 1: Douglas High School, but that no one under twenty one

71
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 1: can buy any firearm whatsoever long gun included rifle shotguns.

72
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 1: Federal law, of course, prohibits those under twenty one from

73
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,840
Speaker 1: purchasing a handgun, and that law at the federal level

74
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 1: is also being challenged in a case that the Supreme

75
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 1: Court is considering. In e fact, each of those cases

76
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 1: is going to be considered in committee that in conference

77
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,360
Speaker 1: they call it at the Supreme Court. So how does

78
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,360
Speaker 1: that work? So when a case is resolved at a

79
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,920
Speaker 1: lower court level, usually by the highest court of a state,

80
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: like the Florida Supreme Court. In the case of the

81
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: ban on under twenty one year olds not being able

82
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: to purchase a firearm at Florida or in a federal

83
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: appeals court, like happened in the federal case involving the

84
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 1: federal law that says you can't buy a handgun if

85
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 1: you're under twenty one. If someone doesn't like that result,

86
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: a loser at that level can file what's called a

87
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: petition for serciarrari in the Supreme Court. A lot of

88
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,160
Speaker 1: times we just abbreviate that and call it a petition

89
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,640
Speaker 1: for cert and the Supreme Court then considers whether it

90
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,679
Speaker 1: will take that case. And what's really interesting I've always

91
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: found this fascinating is the Supreme Court applies what they

92
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 1: call the rule of four. What is the rule of four?

93
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 1: You will not find this in the Constitution, you will

94
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 1: not find it in a federal statute anywhere. You won't

95
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: find it anywhere other than the habit and custom of

96
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, which goes back a couple or or

97
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 1: it goes back one hundred or a couple of hundred years,

98
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 1: which is that if four justices of the Supreme Court

99
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 1: out of the nine, so it's not even a majority,

100
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 1: want to hear a case where for cert has been filed.

101
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,280
Speaker 1: Then the Supreme Court takes the case and they grant

102
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 1: CIRCIARRAI that doesn't indicate necessarily what they're going to do

103
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 1: with the case. A lot of times people think, well,

104
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,839
Speaker 1: if they're okay with a result below, they'll just denied

105
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,360
Speaker 1: cert and so if they take it, they're more than

106
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 1: likely to reverse. I do not think that's the case.

107
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: I just think a lot of times there's a difference

108
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,599
Speaker 1: among circuit courts. So if you have a four circuit

109
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,119
Speaker 1: ruling one way in the ninth circuit ruling another way,

110
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court feels the need to resolve that disparity

111
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 1: in the rulings of the different circuit court of appeals,

112
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,599
Speaker 1: and so it will resolve that. It may resolve it

113
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,560
Speaker 1: by affirming whatever the lower court did with it in

114
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: the case that's specifically being appealed to the Supreme Court.

115
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,159
Speaker 1: So I don't know that you can necessarily draw any

116
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: conclusions when the Supreme Court takes a case. Sometimes when

117
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,280
Speaker 1: they don't take a case, I think it's not necessarily

118
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: because they don't have four people that want to hear it.

119
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,600
Speaker 1: For justices that want to hear it. I think it

120
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't take a case because the justices that

121
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 1: think the lower court case should be overturned don't necessarily

122
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,800
Speaker 1: think they have the votes, that is, that fifth justice

123
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 1: to reach the result they want. So even though we

124
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 1: may have four that really want to overturn the result

125
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 1: in the lower court, they won't get to four. They

126
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 1: won't get four up votes because they don't think they

127
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 1: have a fifth necessarily. Now, with a more conservative court here,

128
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: with the Trump appointees being confirmed over the recent years,

129
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 1: I think that's become less of an issue, which is

130
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 1: why you see the Supreme Court taking more Second Amendment cases.

131
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 1: And they took the Bruin case, for instance, and that

132
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 1: dramatically changed the way Second Amendment issues are resolved in

133
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 1: courts all across country. And they've taken others since then

134
00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 1: as well, including the Harmonic case, which I discussed. So

135
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: we'll see where these go. But I'm really interested and

136
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 1: excited to see what the Supreme Court does with these.

137
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 1: I would love for them, for instance, to take the

138
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,800
Speaker 1: case it says if you're somewhere between eighteen and twenty,

139
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: you can't buy a handgun. It makes no sense to me.

140
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 1: For instance, applied here in Indiana, how old do you

141
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 1: have to be to get an Indiana licensed to carry handgun?

142
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: Even though you don't necessarily have to have a license

143
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 1: to carry since we've passed constitutional carry back in twenty

144
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 1: twenty two, it's still a very good idea to have

145
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 1: a license. In fact, you know what, after this next break,

146
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 1: I'll go into some of the reasons why it's still

147
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,560
Speaker 1: a really good idea to have a license, one in

148
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 1: particular that also deals with the application of federal law.

149
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 1: But how old do you have to be to get

150
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,760
Speaker 1: a license? Eighteen? How old do you have to be

151
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: to carry a handgun concealed or openly under constitutional carry? Eighteen?

152
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 1: How old do you have to be to buy a

153
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 1: gun from a private individual? How old does a buyer

154
00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 1: have to be for you to legally sell a gun

155
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:06,319
Speaker 1: too that private individual? Eighteen? And at federal law says

156
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,199
Speaker 1: they can't go into a gun store and buy their

157
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 1: own gun from the gun store, that the federal firearms licensee,

158
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 1: that is, that licensed dealer can lose their license and

159
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 1: they're actually violating federal law. That the nineteen or twenty

160
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: year old can go to prison when they can walk

161
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: out into the parking lot and legally buy a gun

162
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 1: from a private individual. Does that make any damn sense?

163
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 1: Of course it doesn't. And the reason you hear often,

164
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 1: and you've heard it from me and you hear it

165
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 1: from others, which is, if you can serve in the military,

166
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 1: if you can walk down and volunteer into the armed services,

167
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,520
Speaker 1: and someone's going to hand you an M four select

168
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 1: fire automatic weapon, or teach you to drive a tank,

169
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 1: or operate an artillery unit, or operate a drone and

170
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,720
Speaker 1: handle any number of high tech lethal weapons for the

171
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 1: United States and the service of your country. And that's

172
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 1: totally okay, and we're all okay with that. In fact,

173
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 1: we praise those people rightfully so and thank them for

174
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 1: their service and putting themselves in harm's way. And then

175
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,439
Speaker 1: they come home and if they're not twenty one yet,

176
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 1: having just been driving a tank in the military, as

177
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: I say, an artillery unit, they can't walk in their

178
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,040
Speaker 1: local gun store and buy a handgun. Come on. So

179
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,319
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court taking that case, I think would be

180
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: a wonderful thing, and overturning that law would be a

181
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280
Speaker 1: wonderful thing as well. The Hamani case on a marijuana user,

182
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 1: do I think marijuana users should be prohibited from possessing firearms,

183
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: absolutely not. And listen, marijuana use is not a high

184
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 1: priority issue for me. I learned in college marijuana and

185
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,920
Speaker 1: I told it along. I want to go crill up

186
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: in a funeral position and go to sleep, not talk

187
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 1: to anybody. And I learned that early on. And so

188
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,439
Speaker 1: that issue in particularly doesn't really mean much to me.

189
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: I can tell you, having spent many years doing my

190
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,200
Speaker 1: children's laundry, it is an issue for a couple of

191
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,959
Speaker 1: my kids. I learned that if you know what a

192
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,959
Speaker 1: lot about your kids doing laundry, there's no doubt about that.

193
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: But notwithstanding the fact that I don't have any personal

194
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 1: interest in the legalization of marijuana as far as personally,

195
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: you know how many veterans I've talked to they say

196
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 1: it helps them tremendously with PTSD. The man of people

197
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: have to talk to you, including veterans that say it

198
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: helps them with pain management. I've got a couple of buddies,

199
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 1: separate and apart from military service, that just have stomach issues,

200
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 1: gastru intestional issues, and they say marijuana use settles their

201
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 1: stomach down. I'm not sure I understand the physics or

202
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 1: the physiology is a better word for that, but hey,

203
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: if it works for them, so be it. Even if

204
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 1: it's a plus. If it works for them, so be it.

205
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 1: Should any of those people, including the veterans for crying

206
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,920
Speaker 1: out loud, that suffered PTSD in the service of their country,

207
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 1: having put themselves in harms way, should they then come home?

208
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 1: And because they've decided and in many states in consultation

209
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: with their doctor, to use marijuana for remedial purposes, they

210
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,040
Speaker 1: should lose their Second Amendment rights. They just put themselves

211
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 1: in a harm way, harm's way defending your constitutional rights

212
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: and my constitutional rights, our freedom, our way of living.

213
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,199
Speaker 1: Then they come home and they can't exercise their own

214
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: constitutional rights under the Second Amendment. That makes any sense

215
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: to you, of course it does not. So I think

216
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court will do the right thing as to marijuana,

217
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 1: use it and listen, even though I'm not a marijuana user,

218
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 1: because again, it doesn't get along with me. I haven't

219
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 1: met very many beers I haven't liked. So am I

220
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,839
Speaker 1: a beer drinker? You bet it do? I think I

221
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 1: should be prohibited from possessing a firearm consid drink beer.

222
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,480
Speaker 1: Of course, not at the same time. If somebody, let's

223
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: say somebody's driving home and I happen to be in

224
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,160
Speaker 1: front of them on the interstate, they're driving up behind me.

225
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: If I had my choice between that person having had

226
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,520
Speaker 1: ten beers in the last hour or smoked a couple

227
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 1: of joints, which do you think I'd choose? I'll take

228
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 1: the joints all day long. You know, you don't hear

229
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: that many people. I'm sure it happens. Again, I don't

230
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,599
Speaker 1: run in these circles. How many people go out and

231
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 1: crash their car because they smoked a joint. I don't

232
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,560
Speaker 1: know that that happens a lot compared certainly to drunk drivers.

233
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 1: Even though I'm an alcohol user and not a marijuana user,

234
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 1: there's a pretty decent challenge that, in terms of impact

235
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: on society, alcohol users ought to be impacted in terms

236
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 1: of their Second Amendment rights more than marijuana users. Now

237
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 1: my advocating for that, of course not. But you see

238
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,720
Speaker 1: the logic or lack thereof when it comes to prohibiting

239
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: people from possessing firearms simply because they smoke a joint

240
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 1: from time to time. So anyway, we'll see what goes

241
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: on there. I'll talk about some of these other cases

242
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court, and we'll start taking your calls.

243
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: Got a Second Amendment question, whether it's self defense or otherwise,

244
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,559
Speaker 1: some of these cases pending before the Supreme Court. Again,

245
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 1: give us a call. Talk to producer Kylon who's hit

246
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 1: setting in for us tonight. It's three one seven two

247
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,240
Speaker 1: three nine, ninety three ninety three. This is Guy Ralford

248
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC, and

249
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 1: welcome back. I'm Guy Relford on The Gun Guy Show

250
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 1: on ninety three WYBC. Hey, during that break, I learned

251
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 1: something about celebrity guest producer Kylon that I did not know.

252
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: Starting the twenty first, so that's the Friday before Thanksgiving

253
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 1: over at the Indianapolis Zoo. Kylon will be over there

254
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: entertaining the kids as the Ice Princess, and that's going

255
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 1: to go on through Christmas all the way to New

256
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 1: Year's and so you want to go there. You would

257
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: get pictures taken only with the penguins and other fabulous

258
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 1: animals at the Indianapolis Zoo, especially ones that are active

259
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: in the winter time, but get you get your kids

260
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: picture with the Ice Princess Kylon tally as well. That's

261
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 1: kind of a cool gig. How'd you how that happened?

262
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 2: I love it so much. I had started as one

263
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 2: of their witches with Zoo boo when you might have

264
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 2: heard about it, or if you go to the zoo

265
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 2: and trick or treat there, that's what I was doing.

266
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 1: Hold on, you went from a witch to the ice Princess.

267
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 2: That's a pretty broad range there, pretty one eighty yeah,

268
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 2: but I'm yeah, the Ice Princess, Princess Noel. I'll be

269
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 2: hanging out in the ice area when you first enter

270
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 2: the zoo, but then also by the seals. The seals

271
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 2: are very active, you be ring winter, and then you

272
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 2: can go to the Santa's village and take a picture

273
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 2: with Santa.

274
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 1: Oh okay, how cool was that one? There you go.

275
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Even my grandkids are getting a

276
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 1: little old, uh for that kind of thing, although I

277
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: bet I can talk them into that.

278
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 2: And the lights, Yes, there's so many beautiful light displays

279
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,880
Speaker 2: for you to see zoo.

280
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 1: Yes, that's they have those up already.

281
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 2: They're working on it. They started putting them up during Halloween.

282
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,360
Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's a long process. That's fantastic, gorgeous in

283
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 2: a lovely night out.

284
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: Well, there you go. There's a lot of cool things

285
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 1: to do in Indiana Annapolis, but going to the zoo

286
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 1: and hanging out the penguins, the seals and the ice princess,

287
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: it's got to be pretty cool. So check that out.

288
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Let's go to the phone lines,

289
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,040
Speaker 1: and Paul has called Paul. Welcome to the gun guy ship.

290
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 3: Good guy. How are you today, good brother? How you

291
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 3: doing good? Got a question about starting pistols. Yeah, I

292
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 3: work at an antique store and there's a dealer that

293
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 3: sells black powder guns. But he had a starting pistol

294
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 3: in there, and we don't think it's legal to sell

295
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 3: starting pistols only for the reason as I look it

296
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 3: up online, they're really convertible, like you can take the

297
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 3: barrel off even though it's a starting pistol. Is it

298
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 3: legal to sell those, I mean without a license?

299
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Paul, It's really it's an interesting question, and

300
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 1: it's I haven't looked at this particular statue in a while,

301
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: but the definition of firearm in federal law under federal

302
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: law in Indiana's definition is a little different. But federal

303
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: law in terms of what's legal to sell and whatnot,

304
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: and what's legal to sell without a license. Federal law

305
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 1: controls that anyway. Federal law defines a firearm as a

306
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 1: weapon expelled to eject, to expel a projectile by means

307
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: of an explosion. I'll start that over a weapon designed

308
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,439
Speaker 1: to expel a projectile by means of an explosion, and

309
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 1: starter pistols. So under federal law they actually have a

310
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 1: specific reference to starter pistols. And then they go on

311
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: and also say or a suppressor or silencer, or as

312
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,440
Speaker 1: they call it under federal law, a firearm muffler, or

313
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 1: a frame or receiver for any such weapon. And so

314
00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 1: federal law names starter pistols specifically. Paul, So I think

315
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 1: your concern is warranted, and if I were that person,

316
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: I'd be a little concern. Now, one little caveat. I've

317
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: not looked at that statute myself in quite some time.

318
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's been changed. But the last time

319
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: I looked at it, they called out starter pistols specifically,

320
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 1: to bring starter pistols within the definition of a firearm,

321
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: and the readily convertible language also is a potential problem.

322
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: But you know, a lot of starter pistols to actually

323
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 1: have like solid barrels and whatnot, so they couldn't expel

324
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: a projectile if you wanted them to without actually completely

325
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 1: replacing major components. But anyway, that's the answer to that,

326
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. Also on the phone, we had a

327
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: person call in and asked me through producer Kylon, what

328
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 1: my opinion is of the burner type weapon. I talked

329
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 1: about these a little bit here recently in the context

330
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: of a person who'd gotten arrested in Fissures for impersonating

331
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: police officer and also for criminal recklessness with a deadly

332
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: weapon and I believe pointing a firearm as well, and

333
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 1: intimidation with a deadly weapon if I'm remembering the charges correctly,

334
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: after he was waving around what turned out to be

335
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 1: a burn a pistol in a bar or restaurant in Fishers. Now,

336
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: if I don't have those facts just exactly right, please

337
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: forgive me, because it's been a few weeks I think,

338
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: since I read the news articles on this, and I

339
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 1: was not contacted about that particular case, so I'm not involved.

340
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 1: But in that context, I was talking about the burna guns.

341
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 4: What is that.

342
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: It's a CO two powered gun, as I understand, I've

343
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: never fired one, I've never operated one. I've read up

344
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: on them because I get the questions about them all

345
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: the time. People contact me through social media want me

346
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 1: to know what I think. They'll say, You know, my

347
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: wife is uncomfortable with the idea of shooting someone, but

348
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,719
Speaker 1: I'm so I'm going to get this burner. And what

349
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: they do is they shoot either a solid projectile what

350
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: I think they call their ballistic rounds, if I'm remembering correctly,

351
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: that's like just solid plastic and it's basically just designed

352
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: to hurt a lot, right, It's a solid projectile that

353
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: hits you. It's not like an airsoft that's just plastic

354
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: and hollow. It's like solid, and so it's got some

355
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 1: inertia behind it, some weight behind it, and so it's

356
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: going to leave a big old welp and maybe knock

357
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: you off your feet. I do not know whether it's

358
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: got that kind of muzzle velocity or not. Or they

359
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: also fire a pepper ball round, where it's a projectible

360
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: round projectile that's got some kind of oc or mace

361
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: type compound inside it that bursts when it hits something.

362
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 1: So if you shoot somebody in the chest and that

363
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: burst and you know, not only are they saying ow

364
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: because they just got shot in the chest with this

365
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 1: plastic projectile, but they also now have a burst of

366
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: oc like pepper spray for a more common term, perhaps

367
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, and that's going to somehow

368
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: incapacitate them. I'm not a big fan of things like that.

369
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: I think if someone you know is on drug, ugs,

370
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 1: or crazy or some combination thereof, or just highly motivated,

371
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: I don't know that I want to rely on a

372
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: plastic projectile that mainly is just inflicting some amount of

373
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: pain on them to you know, dissuade them. If they're

374
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: said on being a bad guy. I'm not sure that

375
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 1: it's going to be all that effective to convince them

376
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: to not be a bad guy in that particular instance.

377
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 1: And so I don't know how reliable they are. So

378
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: for that reason I've I've not given them like my

379
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: heartfelt endorsement. But listen, better than nothing, right, people say,

380
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: the best gun you have is the gun that's in

381
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: your hand, and if that's only a burnout and I

382
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 1: prefer that over empty hands, all, hell, yeah, you bet so.

383
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: But I just don't know that they're entirely reliable, so

384
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: I can't give my heartfelt endorsement on that basis. And

385
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: with that, I'll tell you what. We're little past the

386
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: bottom of the hour. So with that, we're going to

387
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 1: go ahead and take a break. Give us a call,

388
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: join the discussion and we'll get you right on the

389
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: air with producer Kylon. This is Guy Ralford on The

390
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC, and welcome back.

391
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety

392
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: three WIBC. And actually just looked up the news article

393
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: on this gentleman in Fisher's who's being prosecuted. I should

394
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: look up his case in the system I have access

395
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: to by being a lawyer and see what the status

396
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: of that case is. But when it happened was This

397
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: is interesting to me because we're talking about this Burna,

398
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: which is a CO two powered gun. She's either a

399
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: solid projectile called a kinetic round. I think I called

400
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: it ballistic or something. Just now before the break, Berner

401
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: calls it a kinetic that's the solid one that isn't

402
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: loaded with any kind of pepper compound, and then the

403
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: OC round being separate. But he was charged with with

404
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: three felony counts of intimidation that's intimidation with a deadly weapon,

405
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: and then two felony accounts of criminal recklessness with a

406
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: deadly weapon and also charged with impersonating a police officer.

407
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: But that's kind of interesting to me because if you say, well,

408
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: I don't get the downsides of carrying or using this

409
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: thing because it's a non lethal quote unquote, and I

410
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: think most people trained in the area would call it

411
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: less lethal, not non lethal. And in fact, I think

412
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 1: where that deadly weapon park comes from is Burna on

413
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: their website, if I recall correctly, actually warns you to say, well,

414
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: if you hit someone in the head or the spine,

415
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: you can potentially kill or paralyze them, and so that's

416
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: obviously serious bodily injury. And if it's capable of causing

417
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: serious bodily injury, then it can be termed a deadly

418
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: weapon in court. And I'm sure that's where his intimidation

419
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: with a deadly weapon and criminal recklessness with the deadly

420
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: weapon counts come from, at least according to the prosecutors

421
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: in Hamilton County. But I'll say what a couple other

422
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: folks have called in wanting to talk about Berna and Matt.

423
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: I think, Matt, you've had some personal experience. I hope

424
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: you were on the right end of that personal experience.

425
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 5: Oh. Absolutely. And I'll also say that I got I

426
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 5: was able to friend you on Facebook when you switched

427
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 5: your stuff, and I'm grateful for that because I like

428
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 5: to associate with people that are smarter than them, smarter

429
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 5: than me.

430
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure that's true, but I take that.

431
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: By the way, I didn't just switch my stuff quote unquote,

432
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: I lost my account completely on Facebook. I got thrown off, yes,

433
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: and I'll tell that story one of these days, but

434
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: I think I probably have in the past. But yeah,

435
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: I lost twelve thousand followers and I had to start over.

436
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: But anyway, glad we made contact on Facebook. But tell

437
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: me the story about you. What using a burner?

438
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it came across my feed. So I did

439
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 5: a bunch of research, watched a bunch of videos, and

440
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 5: number one, burners are crazy expensive, are they really? So

441
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 5: there's yeah, yeah, they're like four hundred dollars. But then

442
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 5: there's other companies that make a similar product that has

443
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 5: the same feet per second, the same ballistics, you know,

444
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 5: for way less. So I bought one.

445
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: What is the muzzle velocity on the thing? You say,

446
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: the same feet per second? What do you know? What

447
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: do you call off hand?

448
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 5: Three hundred?

449
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:11,239
Speaker 6: Oh?

450
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 5: Okay per second is what I remember.

451
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and somebody put that in perspective, A relatively slow

452
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: handgun round would be like a forty five ACP, which

453
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: is about seven hundred and fifty eight hundred feet per second,

454
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: so appreciably slower even than what we consider a pretty

455
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: slow handgun round. But I'm sorry interrupted.

456
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 5: You no, no, that that's relevant. So anyways, I'm raising

457
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 5: a crazy seventeen year old son and he has goofy friends.

458
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: So we put the I put face protection on him,

459
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 5: you know, full face shield, and twenty feet away, my

460
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 5: son's friend, you know, took three rounds to the chest.

461
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: Oh, this is all experiment.

462
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, and I will I'll send you the video

463
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 5: because we're Facebook friends.

464
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: And but this is I have questions. Did you have

465
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: any kind of protective gear? Are you wearing like an umpire,

466
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: padded vest or you know anything? I mean, is this

467
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: is it? It is just like taking one with a

468
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: with a T shirt or a flannel shirt, no.

469
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 5: Full face shield. Oh I had his I had his

470
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 5: face completely covered and he was just wearing a regular

471
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 5: T shirt. It was summertime.

472
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 3: Wow.

473
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 5: And he was about twenty twenty five feet away. And

474
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 5: I had already seen a bunch of videos of this

475
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 5: being done, so I knew I wasn't endangering this kid's.

476
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: Life, right, Yeah, So shot him in the chin. Yeah. Yeah.

477
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 5: Three rounds and the last round was it was a

478
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 5: pepper was a pepper ball boy and this kid, this

479
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: kid probably weighed, you know, one hundred and forty pounds

480
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 5: And at first he was like out ouch and it

481
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 5: didn't bother me, and he walked up to us. It

482
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 5: took it took about five or six seconds for the

483
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 5: pepper round to actually take effect, no kidding, And and

484
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 5: the end result was something that you would see if

485
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 5: you ever competed in a in.

486
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 7: A paintball tournament.

487
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

488
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 5: And my my point to this is that large person,

489
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 5: small person, a person in a state of rage or whatever,

490
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 5: it's not going to stop them.

491
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

492
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 5: No, that's that's my opinion.

493
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: Well, if it even took five or six seconds for

494
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: it to register, I mean, a bad guy can get

495
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: a lot of bad things done in five or six seconds.

496
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, what's the average I mean like seven feet,

497
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 5: you know, the average confrontation, and you.

498
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: Know, inside of eno of you, No, you're right, that

499
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: average confrontation happens that just beyond arm's length actually is

500
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: the most common confrontation distance, even for a self defense shooting. Well,

501
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: that's interesting. So did you come out of this then

502
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: concluding that Berna's not for you?

503
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's better than nothing,

504
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 5: but it's not. It's not going to save your life.

505
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: It's yeah.

506
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: Well, hey, Matt, thanks so much for calling. That's fascinating.

507
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: I loved hearing that story. And you know, and that's

508
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: also keep in mind Matt's son, I think it was,

509
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: or one of his friends. He said it was one

510
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: hundred and forty pounds. That's not a real big guy.

511
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: I mean I weigh eighty pounds more than that. And

512
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: then you add in like some winter clothing, and then

513
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: you add in drugs or oh say insanity, and you know,

514
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: I get some three hundred pound meth head just kicked

515
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: my door in. Do I want him in that situation?

516
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 6: Now?

517
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how many three hundred pound meth heads

518
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: there are. Now that I think about that for a second,

519
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: but having said that, whatever they happen to be high on,

520
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: do I want that person, you know, go an owl

521
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: and then continuing to do what they intended to do

522
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: when they kicked my door in No, nope, nope, nope,

523
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: and nope. Plus that, let me tell you from a

524
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: legal perspective, there's still an interesting issue, which is I

525
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: told you the definition of fire or under the federal law,

526
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: a weapon designed to expel or projectible by means of

527
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: an explosion. We Indiana, it has the same definition expel

528
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: a projectile by means of an explosion. If you look

529
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: up the Dictionary definition of explosion, it just says a

530
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: sudden release of gases. That's an explosion. Well, is air

531
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: a gas? Well?

532
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 7: Sure?

533
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: Oxygen, oxygen, nitrogen mixed? Is that a gag? Of course

534
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: it is? Is CO two a gas?

535
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 4: Yes?

536
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: So isn't a CO two gun still a weapon designed

537
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: to expel a projectile by means of an explosion? And listen,

538
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, I've been a lawyer for a damn long time,

539
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: and I practice exclusively the area of a Second Amendment

540
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: for a very very long time, and I have never

541
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: seen a case in Indiana where someone was prosecuted for say,

542
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: being a felon in possession of a CO two pistol.

543
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: I've never seen that. Does that mean I would be

544
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: one thousand percent confident, one hundred percent confident that if

545
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: someone were to say, use a CO two pistol in

546
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: some way to have the police called and have the

547
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: police then look into their background determine that they're a

548
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: fellon in Indiana, of the prohibition is for serious violent

549
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: fellons owning a firearm. Could I see a prosecutor or

550
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: taking a position that that CO two pistol, because it's

551
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: a weapon designed to expel a projectile by means of

552
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: an explosion, was a firearm and try to prosecute them

553
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: for a possession of a firearm by a serious violent fellon. Now,

554
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: that is something I have not researched. I have not

555
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 1: had that case. If I had a client come in

556
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: and say that was happening to them, they were being prosecuted,

557
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: I would do a deep drill on that research. And

558
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: then may very well be a Court of Appeals or

559
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: Indiana Supreme Court decision out there that says no, the

560
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: legislature when it said explosion meant the combustion of gunpowder,

561
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: not just the release of CO two or air like

562
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: in an air rifle. I mean, listen, I have an

563
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: adult air rifle I call it manufactured by Beman, that

564
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: I use to shoot squirrels in invading the bird feeder.

565
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: I have to do it both. I have to sneak

566
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: up on the squirrel and I also have to do

567
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: it so as not to get caught by my wife

568
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: because she yells at me when I shoot the squirrels.

569
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: But I shoot him in the butt, and you know

570
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: that knocks them off the bird feeder and they decide

571
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: that's not a bird feeder they probably should come back to.

572
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: But that thing shoots at one thousand feet per second.

573
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: Now it's shooting a little point one point seven pellet,

574
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it loses velocity very very quickly. But

575
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: at short distances a thousand feet per second. Would I

576
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: want to get shot with that thing? Oh hell no.

577
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: Could I think it could pier skin? Oh hell yes?

578
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: Do I consider that AI? Do I consider it a weapon? Certainly?

579
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 4: I do.

580
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: Do I think you need to follow all safety protocols

581
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: when it comes to shooting an air rifle? Oh hell yes.

582
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: Do I think someone should go to jail for a

583
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: possession of a of a firearm when it's illegal for

584
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: them to possess a firearm because they possessed an air

585
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: rifle or a CO two pistol. Now, I'll sure us

586
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: all don't. Anyway, we went off on a bit of

587
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: a tangent but interesting discussion, and thanks so much to

588
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: call her Matt, who called in with his own personal experience.

589
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 1: Matt's my kind of guy. The guy who will say, hey, kid,

590
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put a face mask on you

591
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: so I can shoot you with this birth That's my

592
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: kind of guy. Right there. I'm glad we're friends on Facebook.

593
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: Right now, we're taking a break. This is Guy Ralford

594
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBCYH. Welcome back.

595
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what we've got kind of a short

596
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: session segment. I should say here at the top of

597
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: the hour, but let's go to my phone lines. Our

598
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: buddy e Buzzmore has been on hold a bit, e

599
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: buzz How you doing real good? How are you doing,

600
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: guy good Man? We don't have a lot of time,

601
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: but I think I can fitch in what you got

602
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: for us.

603
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 8: Okay, my question is on the whole opposite end of that. Okay,

604
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 8: say you get some hyped up, goofed up kid that's

605
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 8: all doped up, and an anemic nine millimeter does not

606
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 8: stop him. Now normally it's two to the chest, one

607
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 8: to the head. If that doesn't stop, like you just

608
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 8: glance off the skull or something, what there is too

609
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 8: much excessive force.

610
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you that's probably a longer answer, Buzz

611
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: than we may have time for. But the question comes

612
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: down to if deadly force was justified in the in

613
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: the beginning, if you are justified in using deadly force.

614
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: As soon as deadly force is justified, then you can

615
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: use whatever level of force is necessary to stop the threat.

616
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: And listen, I carry a nine millimeter. I wouldn't call

617
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: it anemic, especially with modern performance ammunition. Two to the chest,

618
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: one to the head, assuming adequate shot placement, glance off

619
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: the skull isn't going to happen if you're hitting someone

620
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: in what we call the cranial ocular cavity, which is

621
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: basically around the eyes, you know, top of the head

622
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, I can bounce off, but with

623
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: good shot placement, let's put down anybody that I can imagine.

624
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: And with that we're at the top of the arrow.

625
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. This is Guy Ralford on The

626
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC, and welcome back.

627
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety

628
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: three WIBC. We're glad you're with us. As we get

629
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: into our number two, tell me let's go immediately to

630
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: the phone lines. We've had Brad call in, and Brad

631
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I think had a question perhaps in a previous show

632
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 1: that he didn't quite get answered. So I get that right, Brad,

633
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 1: is something you like to kind of raise again?

634
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, about three or four weeks ago, there was

635
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 4: a gentleman that called in about expungement and his crime

636
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 4: could could not be exposed. So my question is if

637
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: someone has had a serious crime that cannot be exposed,

638
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 4: and he sends letters to a governor for a state

639
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: law or to the president for a federal law and

640
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 4: shows a proof of a chain life or whatever, could

641
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 4: be pard and actually be stronger and give them back

642
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 4: their Second Amendment rights.

643
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: Yes, no, it's a great question, Brad, and I'm glad

644
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: you called to raise it because when people have called

645
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: me before, and the gentleman you called that you were

646
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: mentioned that called in before, as I recall, had a

647
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: conviction for a sex crime, and most sex crimes that

648
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: are that are felonies, cannot be expunged. And I think

649
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: anybody can understand the public policy behind that. It's not

650
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: me being judgmental, as just explaining why, or at least

651
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: understanding the rationale behind the law. And when people call

652
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: and they're asking me about expungement and I have to

653
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: give them that the answer that it can't be expunged

654
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: or in some cases very very difficult to get an expungement,

655
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: they say, well, what you tell me, I have no

656
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: options whatsoever. And my response to them as well, you

657
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: can get a governor, a pardon from the governor, or

658
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, for a federal crime, a pardon from

659
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: the president. And and and I've had a couple It's interesting,

660
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: in all these years and I've been practicing law, I've

661
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: had a couple of people say, well, would you help

662
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: me request a pardon? And I've said sure, I mean,

663
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: I've never done it before, but yeah, every every trail

664
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: has to be blazed the first time at some point,

665
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: and so I'll say, hell, let's let's figure it out.

666
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: And and it's gotten to the point though, where no

667
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: one's actually hired me to do that. I'd love to

668
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: try it one time, just to go through the process.

669
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: And I'm sure the way you phrased the question, Brad,

670
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: is is exactly the right way to approach it, which

671
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: is to, you know, show one that they're mitigating circumstances

672
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: about the crime itself, that perhaps it wasn't as egregious

673
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: and you know, as perhaps just the crime itself would suggest.

674
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: But then secondly, talking about how someone's life has changed

675
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: and how they've they've turned their lives around, and and

676
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: who knows, I don't know how many pardons you know,

677
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: are actually granted. I'm sure it varies by governor. I

678
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: don't know how many pardons Governor Holcom issued during his

679
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: time as governor. I don't know now whether Governor Braun

680
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: has has has you issued any as well at all,

681
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: But but it'd be interesting to look into. But yeah,

682
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: that is exactly the answer to that question. And and

683
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: just to talk a little bit more, I mean, I

684
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: was talking about this during the live read, but let's

685
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that. The general requirements

686
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: for expungement for a misdemeanor, a misdemeanor to get it

687
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: expunged off your record. It takes five years with a

688
00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: clean criminal history that that that doesn't include parking, driving offenses,

689
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: speeding and whatnot. Those are those aren't convictions, aren't Those

690
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: aren't criminal convictions. Those are infractions or ordinance violations, so speeding,

691
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: things that are non criminal that didn't count. So you

692
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: can't have any kind of a criminal conviction for the

693
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: last five years. You have to have paid all your fines,

694
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: fees and court costs. If there is any restitution, that's

695
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: usually paying back the victim. So a lot of times,

696
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: like in theft type convictions or criminal conversion, we're just

697
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: kind of a misdemeanor level theft type crime. You have

698
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: to pay somebody back for something you may have stolen.

699
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: You have to have paid your restitution, met other conditions

700
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: of your probation, and if you've paid all your fines, fees,

701
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: court costs, you've had that much time a misdemeanor and

702
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: actually the lowest level felonies what used to be what

703
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: we call class D das in Delta and now what

704
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: we call level six. We went from classes and letters

705
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: for Fellon needs to levels and numbers back around twenty

706
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: and twelve twenty thirteen something like that, and we went

707
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: from ABCD class felonies to one through six plus murder

708
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: at the top. And for the lowest level felony level

709
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: six now or class d's and misdemeanors, it's actually mandatory

710
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: for the judge to grant your expungement if you are

711
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: eligible for expungement. Now for felony, it's eight years with

712
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: a clean criminal history again, paid all your fines, fees

713
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: and court costs and restitution, met the conditions of your probation.

714
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: For level six or class D felonies, if you you're eligible,

715
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: judge has to grant it, and so a lot of

716
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: times they don't even they don't even hold hearings on those.

717
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: Now for level five or class c's and more serious crimes,

718
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: those are discretionary and assuming it's an expungeable conviction, the

719
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: judge can granted or not granted. So like let's say

720
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: you have a Class C or Class B dealing cocaine conviction,

721
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: and it's from thirty years ago. I had had one

722
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: client and I asked him if I could share generically

723
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: his story, and he said I could, which I appreciated

724
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: a lot because it's to me it was a lot

725
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: of fun to represent him. But he he called me

726
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: one time and he said, man, I just tried to

727
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: buy a gun and I was not able to and

728
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: they told me that not only am I a felon,

729
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: but I'm a serious violent felon. And I was just

730
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: shocked because I've never done anything violent in my life.

731
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: And in fact, for the last thirty five years or so,

732
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: I've been a pastor and I'm the leader of my

733
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: church and I'm the lead pastor, and you know, I've

734
00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: established you know, orphanages for children and drug rebuilt clinics,

735
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: and I've done all these wonderful things throughout the last

736
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: thirty five years or so. And I'm a pillar of

737
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: the community. And I'm being told I'm a serious violent felon,

738
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: and that just shocks me to my core. And I said, well,

739
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: you mean you've never actually had any kind of criminal conviction.

740
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: He goes, well, there was that cocaine thing way back when.

741
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, that cocaine thing. That's interesting. What

742
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: cocaine thing are we talking about it? He said, well,

743
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: back in seminary school, which immediately got my attention. He said,

744
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: my study group and I were having trouble staying awake

745
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: to study. We try to do all nighters or study

746
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: late for a test, and we just couldn't stay awake.

747
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: And one guy's roommate had given him a little bit

748
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: of cocaine just to sort of experiment with, and he said, man,

749
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: I took a little bit of cocaine and I could

750
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: just stay up all night and I could focus and study,

751
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: and I did better on the test, and I crashed afterward.

752
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: And so some of the other folks in the study

753
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: group said, well, man, I'll try that. And so the

754
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: guy went back to his roommate and figured out where

755
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 1: he could get a little bit of cocaine. And later

756
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: on the first who turned out to be my client,

757
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: went and asked the same question, goes man, where'd you

758
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: get that? And he said, well, I went and I

759
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: bought it from this guy. And he went and bought

760
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: not a large amount at all, but enough for the

761
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: group to use for the next study session before some test.

762
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: And of course, one of those other kids got caught

763
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: with cocaine during a traffic stop, and the cops immediately said, well,

764
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: who's your dealer, And he said, well, I bought it

765
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: from so and so, who was just another kid in

766
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: the study group. So he ends up with a felony conviction.

767
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: It was a Class B felony B as in Bravo,

768
00:42:50,680 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: for dealing cocaine and all these years ago, and it

769
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: apparently didn't affect him all that much in his lifetime.

770
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: I think he told me he had to transfer schools,

771
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: but got admitted somewhere else and it really hadn't affected

772
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: him much since then. He did have to do a

773
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: little bit of jail time, but I think they let

774
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: him serve it on weekends or something, if I recall correctly.

775
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: But he goes they're telling me that was a felony,

776
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: and I didn't really do much time in jail. Well,

777
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: whether it's a felony or not is based on what

778
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: the maximum penalty for that particular crime is, not the

779
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: amount of time you were actually ordered to serve. So

780
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: if something's punishable by over a year, that's a felony.

781
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: If you have a felony conviction, any felony conviction, violent, nonviolent,

782
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how long ago. I had. Somebody called

783
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: me one time said said, well, after a certain period

784
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: of time, don't those fall off your record, Like after

785
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: twenty years doesn't a felony fall off your record, And

786
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: I would no, nothing falls off your record. If it's

787
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: on your record, it's on your record unless you do

788
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: something to take it off. And that's what expungement's all about,

789
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: and so they don't fall off. But this guy was

790
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: shocked to learn that in Indiana he was a serious

791
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: violent felon when all he did was saw a little

792
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: bit of cocaine, didn't do anything violent at all. But

793
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: if you look up the statute that defines serious violent

794
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: felonies in Indiana, the Indiana legislature decided, yess obviously violent

795
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: crimes like armed robbery and rape and murder and those

796
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: types of crimes that we considered to be obviously violent.

797
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: Not only those are people that we don't then afterward

798
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: want possessing firearms according to the legislature. There's a good,

799
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: very good argument, and I have many other people make

800
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: this argument, and I think it carries a lot of logic,

801
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: which is, if you're not so dangerous that society believes

802
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: you can be released out of prison and actually re

803
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: enter society, If you're not so dangerous that you shouldn't

804
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: be locked up, then are you so dangerous that you

805
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to exercise your constitutional rights. That's an

806
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: argument that to me has some logic behind. Now, do

807
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: I think anytime soon the Indiana legislature is going to

808
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: remove the prohibition against serious violent felons possessing firearms A hill, No,

809
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: I see absolutely no appetite for that whatsoever. But the

810
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: legislature in defining serious violent felons, which in Indiana under

811
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: state law, that's who can't possess a firearm. Them plus

812
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: domestic batterers, even misdemeanor crimes and domestic violence can't possess firearm.

813
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: But why did they make the crime of dealing cocaine?

814
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: Why did they make a conviction for that a serious

815
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: violent felony? Because they also decided they didn't want drug

816
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: dealers carrying guns. So have a conviction for dealing heroin,

817
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: dealing meth other schedule one drive Schedule one. They don't

818
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: handle drug cases, but I forget that terminology, but other

819
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: controlled substances, and you have a dealing conviction. Not only

820
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: are you a felon, but you're a serious violent felon.

821
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: So what did we do? It was a higher level finally,

822
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: so it was discretionary. So we filed for the expoonishment.

823
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: He was clearly eligible. It's been thirty some years with

824
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: absolutely pristine record. And then Judge scheduled for your hearing.

825
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: This is in Hamilton County, and I said, listen, we

826
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: want people to come in and you know, from the

827
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: from the from from the community, other community leaders, maybe

828
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: other members of your church. You know, if you've got

829
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: a few people that you think are reputable and whose

830
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: testimony would be convincing to the judge, then I have

831
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: them come down and I'll meet them before the hearing

832
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about their stories and what they can say,

833
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: and we'll decide who we're going to call. And I

834
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: show up for this hearing and they had to he

835
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: had to have thirty people there. They're like filled the

836
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: hall outside the courtroom. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

837
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: The court schedule is these hearings for about half an

838
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: hour at the most. And I said, we got a

839
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: whittle of this down, and so we decided on four

840
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: people who are pillars of the community, also community leaders.

841
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: They had law enforcement, senior law enforcement for person there

842
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: like a deacon from the church, and all these very

843
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: impressive folks, and my client got on the stand and

844
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: told his story and it was all this time ago.

845
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: And then he told his story of all these wonderful

846
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: things he'd done in the community, and I put somebody

847
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: on you talked about like the home for a child

848
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 1: or parents children that he had established, and the guy

849
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: got on, talked about the drug rehabilitation clinic that my

850
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: client went on. And I finally judge looked at me

851
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: and said, counsel, enough, I'm granting the petition. Stop. And

852
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: he also saw like the thirty seven people sitting in

853
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: the back of the courtroom looking at me like you're

854
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: not really going to call all these people, are you?

855
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: But we got a granted even though it was discretionary.

856
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: But that's an example of where yes, it's discretionary for

857
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: it because it was a higher level felony. So the

858
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: judge has a hearing. He wants to hear what have

859
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: you done with your life? What were the circumstances going

860
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: on in your life when you had this conviction? Are

861
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: you someone who deserves a second chance, deserves to have

862
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: your rights reinstated. And in my mind, and in my experience,

863
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: which is extensive, because I filed an awful lot of

864
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: I was working on expudgement petition this morning before watching

865
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: the IU game, and I do a lot of them,

866
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: and in my mind, even the discretionary ones, the judge

867
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: think if the judges typically think that if you're going

868
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: through the process of wanting to have your rights legally restored,

869
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: you're not the kind of person who's going to go

870
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: up pick up a gun at for some first opportunity

871
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: and commit a crime, especially true where you've gone all

872
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: this time with a clean record, which you have to

873
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: have done eight years for a felony to be eligible

874
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: for expungement to begin with. So I think judges have

875
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: a positive attitude about people to go through the process,

876
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: and a lot of times people have really compelling stories

877
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: to tell that you know, now they're professional, now, they're

878
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: happily married, now, they you know, support their children, now,

879
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: they are gainfully employed, no long productive employment history, and

880
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there are a lot of good

881
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: stories to tell out there, and judge are really inclined

882
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: to grant those so they they they meet with a

883
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: lot of success, and as they should, because people deserve

884
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: that second chance, which is exactly the reason the legislature

885
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: liberalized the statute in twenty thirteen to make that many

886
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: more people eligible for expongement. And I love doing them.

887
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: I love to see look on people's faces and when

888
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: their rights are restored. I've had people say, you know,

889
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: I was a deer hunter my whole life, and then

890
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: I got this conviction, and for the last ten or

891
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: fifteen years or whatever it is, I haven't been able

892
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: to even have a gun next to the bed at

893
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: night to protect my family. I haven't been able to

894
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: go deer hunting. I haven't been able able to go

895
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: squirrel hunting with my kids and all the things I

896
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: used to do with my dad because I had this

897
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: conviction on my record. So it's a big deal. There

898
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: are certain crimes that are not expongeable. There are also

899
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: crimes what are called crimes of domestic violence where you

900
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: can get an expungement for those. But an expungement does

901
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: not restore gun rights. I says right in the expungement statue.

902
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: An expungement for a conviction for a crime of domestic violence,

903
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 1: it removes it from your record. If it's a misdemeanor

904
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: or low level felony like a D or a six,

905
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: it removes it from your record, but it doesn't restore

906
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: your gun rights. But there's a separate restoration process for that,

907
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: and a lot of people unfortunately have picked up a

908
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: conviction for battery, for instance, or domestic battery, and there's

909
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: a definition, very broad definition for crime and domestic violence

910
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: that results in people having lost their gun rights, and

911
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: that comes as surprise to a lot of people, which

912
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: I'll go into here a little bit after this break.

913
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: Right now, we're taking a break. Join the discussion. Give

914
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: us a call three one seven two three nine ninety

915
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: three ninety three. You have questions or comments about a

916
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: Second Amendment issue, give us a call. We'll get you

917
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: on right away, Producer Kylon Will. It's three one seven

918
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: nine ninety three ninety three, says Guy Ralford on The

919
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC. And welcome back.

920
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety

921
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 1: three WYBC. Just before that break, I was talking about

922
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: crimes of domestic vio violence, and I'll tell you what

923
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 1: this catches people unaware a lot. And I hate having

924
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: this conversation because invariably it ends up with people very

925
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: upset at their prior lawyers. But for instance, a crime

926
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: of domestic violence is a very has a very broad definition.

927
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: It's any crime, doesn't matter what you call it. It

928
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: could be battery, could be domestic battery, could be criminal confinement,

929
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: could be intimidation. If it meets a certain definition, which

930
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: is any crime, doesn't matter what you call it, if

931
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: it has as an element of the crime either the

932
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: use of physical force. By definition, any battery involves the

933
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: use of force. You know what a battery is, I've

934
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: been saying for a long damn time. A battery is

935
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: the easiest crime for any prosecutor to ever get a

936
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: conviction on it. There's the easiest crime to ever prove.

937
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: You know what a battery is. Battery is touching someone

938
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: in a rude, angry or insolent manner. Touching in a rude,

939
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: angry or insolent manner, you don't have to hurt them.

940
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: You have to be trying to hurt them. You shove someone,

941
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: Is that a battery? Yeah, it is if you do

942
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: it in a rude, angry or insolent manner. The thing

943
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: guys do where we poke each other in the chest,

944
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to kick your butt. He poke somebody with

945
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: your index finger? Is that touching someone in a rude

946
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: angry or insolent manner. Hell yeah, it is, so if

947
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: it involves either the use of physical force or the

948
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: threatened use of a deadly weapon. So you don't even

949
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: have to touch anyone. You wave a knife around, you

950
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: wave a baseball bat around, certainly a gun threaten them.

951
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: That's why intimidation can apply. Criminal confinement. You know, criminal

952
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: confinement is that's just preventing someone from moving. So someone says,

953
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: that's it, I'm leaving, I'm leaving the house. You stand

954
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: in front of the door and say no, hell no,

955
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: you're not, and you put your hand on them. You

956
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: use force to keep them from walking out the door

957
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: because you put your hand in the middle of their

958
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: chest or you grab them by the shoulders. That's now

959
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: criminal confinement by way of a bat. It's also a battery.

960
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: And if that person now is a family or household member,

961
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: and family or household member has an incredibly broad definition.

962
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: Anyone you've ever dated, been in a romantic relationship with

963
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: someone you're related to by blood, your great grandson, and

964
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: it goes on from there. It's very broad definition. So

965
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: any crime, don't I what call it. So there are

966
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: people that happens all the time people get charged with

967
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 1: domestic battery because they got an angry argument with their spouse.

968
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: Somebody calls nine to one one, the police arrive. So

969
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: what happened, Well, he shoved me, he pushed me, he

970
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: hit me, she hit me, she pushed me, she scrashed me.

971
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 1: Whatever it might be. Those are batteries and they're against

972
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: a family or household member. So a lot of times

973
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: people get charged with domestic battery. And then here's what happens.

974
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: Sometimes the prosecutor will come to him and say, you know,

975
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: if you get a conviction for a domestic battery, you'll

976
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: lose your gun right. Because a lot of times they'll know,

977
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: like I've had clients or cops or firearms instructors or

978
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: avid hunters or competitive shooters, and prosecutor figure out their

979
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: gun rights are a big deal to them. They'll say,

980
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: we'll drop the domestic battery if you just plead guilty

981
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: to battery as a misdemeanor, no jail time, only a

982
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: year of probation, go on with life. And so they

983
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: plead guilty to battery where they because they drop the

984
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: domestic battery and everyone is under the impression the defense

985
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: attorney certainly the client, often the judge, maybe even the prosecutor.

986
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: Because I'm not saying this is even done intentionally. Sometimes

987
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: it's just done out of not understanding how the law

988
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: in this area works, because not everybody is a student

989
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment issues as controlled by Indiana law

990
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: or federal law. So somebody will will plead guilty to

991
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: battery after domestic battery is dropped, and are there then

992
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: very upset to learn later on they go to try

993
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: to buy a gun, or they apply for their license

994
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 1: to carry and they're told you can't possess a gun

995
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: because you have a conviction for a crime and domestic violence.

996
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: A lot of times then they call me and they say, well,

997
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: what is going on here? Because I had this case.

998
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: My lawyer told me they were dropping domestic battery. I

999
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: just played guilty to battery and says it's not domestic

1000
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: but it's not a crime and domestic violence. I said, well,

1001
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: who was the victim? What doesn't matter who the victim was,

1002
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: it matters a lot. Well, victim was my wife, victim

1003
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: was my husband, victim was my ex husband. Well, it's

1004
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: a crime of domestic violence. And they often then want

1005
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: to explain to me that I just don't understand because

1006
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: they say, no, no, no, they dropped the domestic battery. I go,

1007
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 1: doesn't make any difference even though it's just battery. Since

1008
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: it was a crime involved in the use of physical

1009
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: force and the victim was a family or household member,

1010
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: it's a crime of domestic violence, and there's a separate statue.

1011
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: There's one statute says if you have a conviction for

1012
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: domestic battery, you can't possess a gun. There's another statute says,

1013
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: if you have a conviction for a crime and domestic violence,

1014
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: you can't possess a gun. So they dropped domestic bata.

1015
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: You're okay to the one statute, but not the other one.

1016
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: You do have a conviction for crime and domestic violence

1017
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: and you can't possess firearm. And then sometimes they'll even

1018
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: call me and say no, no, no, you don't understand. I

1019
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: had it expunged. So when they're upset, because they should

1020
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: never in their minds, should have never lost their rights

1021
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: at all because it wasn't domestic battery, it was just battery.

1022
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: And then they had it exposed, and I said, well,

1023
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 1: I got more bad news for you, because an expungement

1024
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: for a crime domestic violence does not restore your gun rights. Now,

1025
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: they're really upset because they may have spent quite a

1026
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: bit of money on the expungement, paying a lawyer to

1027
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 1: do that for him. And the only good news in

1028
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: that scenario is that there is a restoration process after

1029
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: a crime of domestic violence. If it's been at least

1030
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: five years since the conviction for a misdemeanor crime domestic violence,

1031
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: you can file what's called a petition for restoration of rights.

1032
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: It's a whole separate process from expungement. If you also

1033
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: want it off your record, you can also file on

1034
00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: an expungement for the restoration. Again, it's discretionary like an

1035
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: expungement for a higher level crime. So even though it's

1036
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor or a low level fellony, it's discretionary. It

1037
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what level crime it is. If it was

1038
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: a crime of domestic violence, again, you file those judges,

1039
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: set them for hearing, they go in and you present

1040
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: your case. Here's what happened, Here's what resulted. Here's what

1041
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: this person's life's been like. Here's what their relationships have

1042
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: been like since then. Here's their employment history. Here's their

1043
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: contributions to their community, whatever it might be. Here's why

1044
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: this person deserves to have their rights restored. And again,

1045
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: judges look at that for the most part and say, hey,

1046
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: if this is someone who's turned their lives around, who

1047
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: learn from their mistake and a lot of times that

1048
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 1: you know and listen, I am not minimizing the problem

1049
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: we have in this country with crimes and domestic violence.

1050
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: We have a horrible problem with it. My mother was

1051
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: a victim of horrible domestic violence, not from my father,

1052
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: from a subsequent relationship after my parents were longer together.

1053
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: It's somebody I'm still somewhat blessed that I'm not personally

1054
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: in jail based on what I wanted to do this

1055
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: person after he battered my mother. So we have a

1056
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: horrible crime. We have a horrible problem with crimes and

1057
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: domestic violence, and nothing I'm ever going to say is

1058
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: going to diminish that. However, there are also situations that

1059
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: evolve a pretty minor transgression, a push, a shove, a scratch,

1060
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: something done in anger that everybody learned from, everybody's remorseful for,

1061
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: and that's why there's a process for getting your rights

1062
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: restored after that I'm glad that there is, but a

1063
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: lot of times people are dismayed that they ever lost

1064
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: their rights to begin with, much less if there's a

1065
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: legal process they have to go through separate and apart

1066
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: from expungement in order to get those rights restored. But

1067
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: that's something that we do a lot of and I'm

1068
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: glad to do, and I'm glad to let people know

1069
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: how that works. And I see what a couple of

1070
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: people have called with some questions about that. Tell you what,

1071
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break here at the bottom

1072
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: of the air and we come back. I'll go right

1073
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: to the phone line. So yancey, casey. Oh, my buddy

1074
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: Kelly is on there too. We'll go right to the

1075
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: phone lines when we come back. This guy Ralford on

1076
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC, and welcome back.

1077
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being with us here on the

1078
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show this Seaven. Let's go right to the

1079
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: phone lines, and my pal Kelly and Avon is on

1080
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: the phone, otherwise known as the Assistant Legislative director or

1081
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: co legislative director. Excuse me, I almost gave you a

1082
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: demotion there, Kelly, co Legislative director at the Indiana State

1083
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: Rifle and Pistol Association, and so ISRP I and Kelly

1084
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: and I work together closely, and Kelly which got for us, Buddy.

1085
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 7: Oh well, first off, guy, I have to say I've

1086
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 7: been calling your show for years you have, and Kylon

1087
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 7: is by far the nicest producer you've ever had. So

1088
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 7: whoever you got to poach her from to make her

1089
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 7: your producer, I would say, do it.

1090
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1091
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately we can't afford Kylon on any kind of

1092
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: a regular basis. She's got many more jobs. She's just

1093
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: being nice enough to sit in because producer Jack's gone

1094
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: on to other things. And so that's why I called

1095
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: her our celebrity guest producer. We wouldn't be lucky enough

1096
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: to talk her into doing it all the time. She's

1097
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: got more important things to do, but we do. I

1098
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: appreciate her being here and helping out really out of

1099
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: the goodness of her heart. But I couldn't agree with

1100
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: you more. If I could talk her into accepting the

1101
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: gig full time, I'd be all over it.

1102
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, that would. I would definitely recommend that. Well, you've

1103
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 7: already said, well, we can't talk about tonight. Yeah, I

1104
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 7: thought I'd bring up the legislative session that's coming up there,

1105
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 7: you bet not only a short session, but going to

1106
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 7: be a short short session. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean,

1107
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 7: with it starting early to argue over redistricting. And if

1108
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 7: you look at how the legislative session works, the only

1109
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 7: place you can shorten the timeline on this is have

1110
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,959
Speaker 7: fewer bills come up in hearing. That is the only

1111
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 7: way you can do it. It's not like you can say, well,

1112
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 7: we're going to skip first reading and go straight here,

1113
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 7: or well, no amendments were going straight to third reading.

1114
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 7: I'm probably there's probably laws against that. I don't think

1115
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 7: they can do that.

1116
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: No, you're right, the processes is set and as far

1117
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: as the different stages that have to bill has to

1118
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: go through in order to get passed. And your point, Kelly,

1119
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: and I don't want to go off on too much

1120
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: of a tangent here, but when Governor Bron called a

1121
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: special session not only for the legislature to address redistricting

1122
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: at the request of President Trump and Vice President Vance

1123
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: and others in Washington, but then also to address aligning

1124
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: Indiana's tax code with changes in federal tax code, Governor

1125
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: Bron called a special session. And you know what the

1126
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: legislature essentially did was said no, which that's kind of

1127
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: not how the Indiana constitution works. The governor calls a

1128
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: special session. If he calls a special session, governor said,

1129
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: or the legislature said, no, we're not really going to

1130
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: have a special session. We're just going to start the

1131
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five session a little early in order to

1132
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: address these things. But they didn't give themselves very much time,

1133
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: which means it's going to eat up time for other

1134
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: legislative matters, which is a long winded way of saying,

1135
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: I agree with you that I'm a I'm a little

1136
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: disappointed that we're not going to have more time in

1137
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: a short session. Anyway, just for everybody understands that every

1138
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: other year is a budget year, that's a long session,

1139
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: and then we have the short session, which originally never

1140
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: didn't occur at all. The short session was when they

1141
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: started convening legislature every year, which for years after Indiana

1142
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: became a state, legislature only met every other year. So

1143
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: anyway we're in a short session anyway that's going to

1144
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: get eaten into by redissecting and tax alignment and so

1145
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: what the hell are we going to get done?

1146
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 7: Becomes the question, Yeah, because I think ye, when I

1147
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 7: know there's a lot of folks listening to this. They

1148
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 7: get emails from you from the two A project, They're

1149
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 7: going to get emails from Nick boogia at from the NRA,

1150
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 7: and it won't have my name on it, but they

1151
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 7: will get an email drafted by me from the State

1152
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 7: Rifle and Pistol Association talking about legislation, and it's going

1153
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 7: to be a We're going to have to hit them

1154
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 7: fast and furious to uh to get their attention to

1155
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 7: get something to get through there, because yeah, we're as

1156
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 7: it is. If they shortened the number of weeks are

1157
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 7: having committee hearings, it very well could be, Uh, you're

1158
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 7: supporting a bill on the Senate side and I'm on

1159
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 7: the House site supporting a similar bill. But because they're overlapping,

1160
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 7: we can be in two places at once.

1161
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. And you know some of the things

1162
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: that I think are going to require a lot of

1163
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: debate and protracted fighting over, like we're you know, we're

1164
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: going to try to bring back campus cary, which is

1165
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: to require state universities in Indiana to allow the obsession

1166
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: of firearms on campus. That's going to be a contentious issue.

1167
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: In a regular session, I would have some optimism. Uh, well,

1168
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: we'd at least have a fighting chance in a short session.

1169
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: I just don't think many, let when many committee chair

1170
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: are even going to want to take that on given

1171
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: the extreme shortness of the session.

1172
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's one. I've got three to five minutes

1173
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 7: ready to go on it right now.

1174
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1175
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1176
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: Well, and one that's to me easy, And it's an

1177
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: extension of what I got done in terms of a

1178
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: bill I wrote last year, which is our requiring expungement

1179
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: of red flag proceedings once a determined a person is

1180
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: determined to be not dangerous in a red flag proceeding.

1181
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: We got that done last year. That's already I've already

1182
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: used that multiple times for clients, and I love doing it.

1183
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: I just had a hearing on Thursday where I've already

1184
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: submitted a proposed to order. It's going to expunge all

1185
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: those records under that. But an extension of that is

1186
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: to also require the appointment of counsel for anyone who

1187
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: can't afford their own lawyer in a red flag case

1188
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: because it's not a criminal case. So you don't have

1189
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: a right to counsel, which is ludicrous to me. If

1190
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: you can lose a constitutional right, your Second Amendment rights

1191
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: become a prohibitive possessor and you can't afford a lawyer

1192
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: and you don't get a lawyer, how is that consistent

1193
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: with due process? And so I think that that one's easy,

1194
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: straightforward and simple enough. The only problem is it's a

1195
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: non budget year, and so we may run into a

1196
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: problem where it has to go through ways and means,

1197
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: and there has to be an allocation of money because

1198
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: someone's going to say who's going to pay for the lawyer?

1199
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: They're now going to be appointed for people they can't

1200
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: afford their own. But but but whether we're going to

1201
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: take a break here at pretyson Kelly, what what would

1202
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: you say as a priority for I s r p

1203
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,439
Speaker 1: A and trying to get it done this year?

1204
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 7: Well, I'll tell you that's uh that the bill you

1205
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 7: just mentioned is definitely one I think we could get

1206
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 7: across because it's you walk in and your opening statement

1207
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 7: is last year expungement passed unanimously out of both houses

1208
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 7: did have a pretty good start.

1209
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a good point, And this to me

1210
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: is a logical extension of that. So hey, thanks so

1211
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: much Kelly for calling in. Always glad when you do

1212
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: call in. Love working with you and the good folks

1213
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: at is r P I. Right now we're taking a break.

1214
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: Is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety

1215
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: three WYBC, And welcome back to our last segment here

1216
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show. I tell you we've got

1217
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: some people on hold for quite a while. Let's see

1218
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: if we can do a little bit of a blitz

1219
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: on the phones here. Keep it succinct if you don't mind,

1220
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: and we'll see if we get to everybody online. And

1221
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: Yancy is called Yancy. Welcome to the Gun Guy Show.

1222
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 9: Yes, sir, I did not know that you had a

1223
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 9: low and attorney background, so that's interesting to learn.

1224
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: Also, God, yes, well, I.

1225
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 9: Was wondering, I don't have a background as far as

1226
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 9: I passed in regards to guns, I don't know. I'm

1227
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 9: not a gun person. I don't have any past history

1228
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 9: of background in regards to harming. We come to sexual

1229
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 9: aural things like that, but there's a brief domestic not domestic,

1230
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 9: rather than I'm sawt on my background as a jubidole.

1231
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 9: But my question is this though, if you do have

1232
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 9: your get exponged, is there any protection for those persons

1233
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 9: who have this initiative to try to find out what

1234
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 9: would be in your background and as fur as when

1235
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 9: you come to work related when employeers are trying to

1236
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 9: find things, or is there any loopholes that even attorneys

1237
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 9: can even employ to try to find out even if

1238
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 9: there's an expongement that has occurred, that they could still

1239
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 9: find out if you have a track record of such,

1240
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 9: I mean that legal for them to try to even

1241
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 9: do that if you have any no legal.

1242
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: If it expunged off your record, then really it's sealed

1243
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: off the public record. The only people have access to

1244
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: that the court system and law enforcement. And yeah, there

1245
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: are protections, and in fact, the statute even allows you

1246
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: to answer no. Somebody asks you if you ever have

1247
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: any criminal conviction, if you've had a conviction exponged, you

1248
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: can say no. And there's even an anti discrimination provision

1249
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: in the expungement statute that says if you're discriminated against

1250
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: for employment or otherwise on the basis of an expunged convictions,

1251
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: actually against the law to discriminate someone on the basis

1252
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: of that. So there are protections building to the statute

1253
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: that really make it worth worthwhile, and the legislature I

1254
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: think did a really nice job in doing exactly that.

1255
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the phone lines, and Casey's been

1256
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: on hold for a while. Man, thanks for your patience, Casey, it's.

1257
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 6: All right, I'm sorry, I said, that's okay.

1258
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: Okay, what you got First.

1259
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 6: Let's say you got a neighbor in distress. You live

1260
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 6: out in the country, you can't see their house, they're

1261
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 6: screaming whatever.

1262
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 4: And then.

1263
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 6: So you go down there to see what's going on

1264
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 6: or try and help them out. When would it be

1265
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 6: all right to use deadly force when you got to

1266
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 6: their house.

1267
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's a great question, Casey. And since it's

1268
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: not your house. Indiana's castle doctrine, which allows you to

1269
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: defend your home, it actually allows you to use deadly

1270
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 1: forced to either prevent or terminate an unlawful entry into

1271
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 1: your home. A lot of people commenting on Indiana self

1272
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: defense laws right now on social media don't understand that part.

1273
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: You can use reasonable force, including deadly force, if you

1274
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: reasonably believe that force is necessary to prevent or terminate

1275
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 1: an unlawful entry into your house. But that only applies

1276
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: to your house, that's where you're staying, where you're living.

1277
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: If it's your neighbor's house, the castle doctrine doesn't apply

1278
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: to you. So to answer your question, when you can

1279
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: use deadly force to protect your neighbor other than yourself,

1280
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: is you have to reasonably believe that you're preventing serious

1281
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: bodily injury to you or a third person. That third

1282
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: person can obviously be your neighbor, or the commission of

1283
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 1: a forcible felony. So let's say you get over there

1284
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: in the screaming. It turns out you know that your

1285
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: neighbors being raped out on the lawn. Well, rape is

1286
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 1: obviously a forcible felony. Can you use deadly force to

1287
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: defend your neighbor absolutely against a violent crime of what

1288
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,719
Speaker 1: we call a forcible only like rape? One hundred percent?

1289
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: Or it's an armed home invasion and people are in

1290
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: there pointing guns at your neighbor, can you use deadly force? Yes,

1291
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, to the extent you reasonably believe that

1292
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to

1293
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: your neighbor. And I'll tell you what I think we

1294
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: got time for our last caller the chap has called

1295
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: in Chap welcome to the Gun Guy Show.

1296
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 10: Hey guy, I'll be quick for and I appreciate your

1297
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 10: work with everybody. I know some of the stuff may

1298
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 10: seem basic to you, but it's so so interesting. The

1299
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 10: rest of us, our family is moving to the west

1300
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 10: side of the needed Utah, and I'll preface this with

1301
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 10: outside of Illinois, we're going to have everything we own

1302
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 10: trailing behind our vehicle and I fully plan on either

1303
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 10: open carrying or it may be underneath a short where

1304
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 10: it is truly concealed. I do have my ADI analysis

1305
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 10: to carry, so I am in the system. Any advice

1306
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 10: you can give in the event we end up in

1307
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 10: contact the law enforcement, whether it's a traffic stop, seem

1308
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 10: in address area, is something like that for the.

1309
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 1: Trip in Illinois specifically, or in any other stand.

1310
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 10: Illinois, I'm putting it in the back of the car.

1311
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 10: I ain't touching it. I'm as the rest of the states.

1312
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 10: I'm also a member of USCCA, so I've done a

1313
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 10: lot of our research on what I can do. I

1314
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,600
Speaker 10: know Illinois is a dead stop. I'm not going to

1315
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 10: do a thing or I'm going to be at sixty

1316
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 10: five miles an hour in a sixty five.

1317
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1318
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say thanks for calling buddy. One thing.

1319
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: Let me just we don't have much time, so I'll

1320
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: answer your question this way, going through Illinois. Illinois changed

1321
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,719
Speaker 1: our law recently where you now, if with an Indianna

1322
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: license to carry, you can possess possess a gun in

1323
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:47,799
Speaker 1: your vehicle in Illinois, only in your vehicle going through Illinois.

1324
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't stop for gas, get gas in Tara

1325
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: Hate or wherever it is, do not stop in Illinois.

1326
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: But you can possess a gun now in Illinois with

1327
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: your Indiana license to carry. And that's a wrap for

1328
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: this week's Gun Guy show. Hope you enjoyed it, Hope

1329
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: you come back. Remember always shoot straight and be safe.

1330
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: This is Guy Ralford on ninety three WIBC