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Speaker 1: The promise was, we'll be doing things more than just bourbon.

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Speaker 1: Promises made, promises kept. It's eat, drink, smell co I'm

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz. That right there is America's favorite amateur drink

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Speaker 1: or fingers maloy. And this is Baku rum b a cooo.

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Speaker 1: We think we're pronouncing this correctly, the Baku rum.

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Speaker 2: This is a twelve year old rum.

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Speaker 1: Out of the Dominican, coming in at forty percent alcohol

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Speaker 1: by volume or eighty proof. That's yeah, that's very often.

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Speaker 1: Uh what you see, so this is sugarcane. Of course,

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Speaker 1: they utilize a column still aged for twelve years in

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Speaker 1: ex bourbon barrels. So when a bourbon barrel is done,

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Speaker 1: remember it can only be used one time. It's used

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Speaker 1: in a myriad of places. It's used for rum, it's

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Speaker 1: used for scotch, it's used for Irish whiskey, Japanese whiskey.

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Speaker 1: It can be used in a multiplicity of places. And

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Speaker 1: that's what they use right here. First things first, this

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Speaker 1: bottle is gorgeous. The label is beautiful, how it marks

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Speaker 1: the twelve year in those browns and in those gold tones.

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Speaker 1: The actual engraving of the bottle is fantastic. And the

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Speaker 1: color of the juice a little bit lighter in the glass.

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Speaker 1: But still it looks rich, it looks a little Sarah

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Speaker 1: b it's not. I mean, it's not really a viscous

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Speaker 1: por This is not a thick rum by any stretch

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Speaker 1: of the imagination. You like rum, like you, you find

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Speaker 1: yourself good with rum in general.

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Speaker 3: I'm fine with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 3: You bring up the bottle, and if you're the type

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Speaker 3: of person that buys liquor to display it, you're absolutely

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Speaker 3: right about how beautiful this bottle is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fantastic looking. The quirk is great. And have

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Speaker 1: you gone nos yet? No, I'm not go ahead. We

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Speaker 1: should do that. We should do that.

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Speaker 2: That is sweet.

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Speaker 1: It is, it's almost but that's not it's weird. It's

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Speaker 1: more fruity sweet than it is sugary sweet. On the nose,

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Speaker 1: it was a little it was a little faint.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: There, fingers the first your nose right in there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't do this in Glenn Cairen glasses. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we did these in rocks glasses for the for the room.

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Speaker 2: Right here.

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Speaker 3: This is almost like a little bit to me. There's uh,

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Speaker 3: it's fruit and then almost a brown sugar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean you're talking about rum, and

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Speaker 1: I don't find any part of that surprising. I actually

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Speaker 1: am feeling that And I could just be, you know,

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Speaker 1: engaging in a level bit, a little bit of suggestion.

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Speaker 2: You can get some oke in this. Yeah, there is

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Speaker 2: some wood underneath this room, I would hope.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, if it's if it's age twelve years

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Speaker 3: in chart oak barrels, you would you would hope that

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Speaker 3: you would get a little bit old.

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Speaker 2: Right, But enough sniff and fingers, Well, are you ready

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Speaker 2: for this?

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Speaker 3: I've been ready for this all day.

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Speaker 1: He is doing with someone as a Kentucky chew. That's

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Speaker 1: what we do for bourbon. Right, take two steps. First

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Speaker 1: step to test the taste, but second sip's really good

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Speaker 1: idea of flavors. You're moving things around the palate, getting

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Speaker 1: an idea for what it is that you're trying here.

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Speaker 1: Buck ko be acoh back koo rum twelve years old.

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Speaker 2: Very pretty presentation. Are you pleased?

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Speaker 3: It's wonderful? Okay, that fruit is there. There is a

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Speaker 3: little bit of oak. First of all, there is a

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Speaker 3: light sting on the tongue, nothing more than that. And

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Speaker 3: you know eighty proof I don't feel any warmth in

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Speaker 3: the in the chest, but uh, it is that that

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Speaker 3: oak is there. There's a little bit of fruitiness and I,

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Speaker 3: you know, I always like to kind of you'll see

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Speaker 3: what other people say about stuff before we review it.

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Speaker 3: In one review the Barrel Tap, they mentioned toffee, and

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Speaker 3: there's totally a toffee finish on it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going in, I'm going in back Ku rum, twelve

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Speaker 1: year old.

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Speaker 2: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: He's going in, ladies and gentlemen, and he is doing

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Speaker 3: what we like to call the saganaw wish, the Memphis munch,

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Speaker 3: the Chattanooga chomp. Oh, it's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: It's funny.

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Speaker 1: When you take the first sip, you almost wonder something

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Speaker 1: bitter happening here. Then you realize that's the bitter end

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Speaker 1: of the dark chocolate, and then everything else follows. Oh, hello,

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Speaker 1: it's not you know, my point of it looks syrpy,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I think that holds true because it's not as overall luscious.

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Speaker 1: As maybe one would think of a rum. But oh,

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Speaker 1: is that happening right there? There's this chocolate, there's this

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Speaker 1: fruity there, there is the wood, there is the oak.

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Speaker 2: That Oh, that's a good finish too.

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Speaker 3: So what's interesting to.

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Speaker 2: Me is that, Oh, good Lord.

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Speaker 3: That hint of bitterness you're talking about, I'm getting that

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Speaker 3: on the finish where.

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Speaker 2: You're saying, I'll do a second step. Peace should do that.

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Speaker 3: You should do that for each drink smoke nation. Look

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Speaker 3: at him. Look what he does for you people. And

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you you you seem to be really enjoying it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a lot of fun, that is, I know,

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Speaker 2: not being a rum connoisseur. I'm curious what other Oh

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Speaker 2: that is a good finished dang, dang.

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Speaker 1: I don't think my palet's good enough to understand taffee

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Speaker 1: this toffee like butterfinger. Heath Oh, yeah, I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: caught eddying heath bar. So I don't know that's right.

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Speaker 1: Heath bars are terrible. You want to fight me on this,

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Speaker 1: I'm all in. I don't even know who you are anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say a terrible It just not my not

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Speaker 1: my style. Tutsi rolls are terrible. This baku rum Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is an absolute winner because there's just there. There's

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Speaker 1: a great bit of multi dimension happening here with the

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Speaker 1: bit of fruit, and there's it's not vanilla, but it's

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Speaker 1: still kind of.

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Speaker 2: Milk shaky.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting. By the way, would really be good in

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Speaker 3: a milkshake.

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Speaker 2: I'll be fantastic. Do you want me to do that

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Speaker 2: right now? Blender will travel.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't want you to do that right now

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Speaker 3: because I'm doing my best to stay off the carbs.

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Speaker 3: Tony and I walk in here and it's carb city

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Speaker 3: and when I'm walk in here, so no, I would

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Speaker 3: of course, I would love a milkshake, but I don't

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Speaker 3: want a milkshake.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about what this is gonna be like on

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Speaker 1: a cube, and I will try it on a cube,

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Speaker 1: fingers May, but Ku rum aged twelve years. This is

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Speaker 1: different than other RUMs we've tried. This is different than

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Speaker 1: other RUMs that I've had. There's a lot of flavor

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Speaker 1: going on here for a non flavored rum. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what's most interesting. And it's really pronounced. You can

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Speaker 1: pick up a great number of these things, fingers May

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Speaker 1: a kup rum. Is this in your liquor cabinet for

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Speaker 1: twenty nine ninety mins?

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Speaker 3: Oh stop it? Yes, absolutely, And I gotta tell you

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Speaker 3: I'm a little concerned about monkeying with this I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: do a cube.

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Speaker 1: But I'm telling you this is again, I haven't done

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Speaker 1: enough RUMs to engage any level of all. Right, I

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Speaker 1: have a basic understanding here. I have a real palette

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Speaker 1: for these things. You could do this daily. This could

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Speaker 1: be a daily drink if you have a daily bourbon

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Speaker 1: or something else and you want to mix it up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, because it.

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Speaker 2: Actually plays a little bit in that space, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does to me feel like an after dinner

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Speaker 3: drink if you want.

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Speaker 1: Some screw yeah, after work drink, mid afternoon drink with

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Speaker 1: your orange juice, whatever it is you need.

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Speaker 3: To me, it's it's so sweet. It's like one of

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Speaker 3: those things where if you're saying to yourself, I want dessert,

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Speaker 3: but I don't want to have dessert. This is a

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Speaker 3: nice sweet drink that would go great after it.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's it's not just sugar. It's it's it's

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Speaker 2: very multi dimensional. There's a lot going on.

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Speaker 1: There's a there's a fruit aspect, there's another aspect, there's

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Speaker 1: a chocolate aspect, there's a there's a an absolute oak.

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Speaker 1: There's there's more oak on this than I have gotten

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Speaker 1: from bourbons.

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Speaker 2: We tried this is fun.

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Speaker 1: Baku Rum twelve year, Bravisimo, well played. Uh this this

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Speaker 1: might make a list.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is a really interesting drink and.

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Speaker 3: One heck of a pairing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I will get to that cigar in just a moment. Now,

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Speaker 2: changing things.

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Speaker 1: Up a little bit, I'm gonna share Fingers and I

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Speaker 1: are gonna share the interview I did with Michael Herklott's

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Speaker 1: of Farry Otago as we are smoking this timeless from

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Speaker 1: the TA, the twenty twenty four TA Exclusive. That's the

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Speaker 1: Tobacco Association of America. By the way, I got that right,

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Speaker 1: didn't I Tobacco Association of America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just making sure see drink smoke. I'm Tony Katz.

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Speaker 1: That is America's favorite amateur drinker. Fingers molloy, and we're

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Speaker 1: drinking this baku Rum twelve year, very very impressed at

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Speaker 1: twenty nine ninety nine a bottle and I did add

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Speaker 1: a cube to it. Right now because we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to this interview. It's a two parter. You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: want to miss it all. He goes deep into the

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Speaker 1: conversation regarding the cigar business, what it takes to build

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Speaker 1: a brand, what's been happening with cigars right now, this

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Speaker 1: moment in time versus history.

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Speaker 2: It's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: But I threw the cube in there, and I want

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Speaker 1: to see what this rum was going to do this

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Speaker 1: twelve year that dark chocolate, notes Vanillan notes, you can

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Speaker 1: really get the oak out of this something else.

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Speaker 2: It's an ex bourbon barrel. I'm going in.

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Speaker 3: He's going in, ladies and gentlemen. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: before somebody caractsus, it's actually the Topaconist's Association of America.

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Speaker 1: I said, Tobacco Association, my fault.

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Speaker 2: So much, so much better, so much better.

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Speaker 3: What makes it better?

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Speaker 2: It became more luscious, it became more rich. That's excuse me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he's going in again. See I was worried that.

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Speaker 3: I oh wow, for me putting water in, it's eighty proof.

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Speaker 3: I'm worried that it's it's going to really if it

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Speaker 3: takes away some of the sweet, I guess that's okay,

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Speaker 3: but not for me.

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Speaker 2: It's great, Okay. It didn't actually take away the sweet.

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Speaker 1: The sweet's still there. It just made it more luscious.

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Speaker 1: The the oak finish is still there. It actually brought

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Speaker 1: a little bit of heat to the throat really and

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Speaker 1: and the very top of the chest is what it

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Speaker 1: did it. I'm I yeah, this is in the liquor cabinet.

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Speaker 1: This is on the table. I can appreciate if you

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Speaker 1: like it more neat. But man, oh kay, he's done,

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Speaker 1: he's out.

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Speaker 3: I'm a bourbon guy. Yeah you know this. Yes, you're

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Speaker 3: you're you like bourbon. I'm a more of a rye.

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Speaker 3: You're more of a rye guy. This could be an

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Speaker 3: everyday drink for me. One thousand percent, one thousand percent.

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Speaker 3: And the I think the key here is you're getting flavor.

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Speaker 3: You're not getting overwhelmed with alcohol. There's not an ethanol thing,

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Speaker 3: there's not anything else going on. You're getting flavor all

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Speaker 3: the way around. What is going on because the sting

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Speaker 3: has been enhanced based on and that's not what I

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Speaker 3: was expecting at all. This is this is why this

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Speaker 3: is different and it's wonderful and at that price point

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Speaker 3: twenty nine dollars did you say.

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Speaker 2: Twenty nine dollars and ninety nine cents?

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. Yeah, it has to be in your

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Speaker 3: liquor cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am duly impressed.

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Speaker 1: But ku be a coo but kou rum dot com,

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Speaker 1: I think you might see that again at the end

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Speaker 1: of the year. I truly do uh fingers more. I

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Speaker 1: found a list, and you know we are for lists.

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Speaker 1: Here at Eat, Drink Smoke. This is the eight restaurant

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Speaker 1: chains that serve the biggest steaks in America. Oh okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Now I get all of my steaks from Defiance Beef

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Speaker 1: right here in Indiana, delivered to my door, all of it,

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Speaker 1: vacuum packed, frozen, ready to go. But cut to my specifications,

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Speaker 1: because that's what you get from Defiance Beef. Use promo code,

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Speaker 1: Eat Drink Smoke. Get one hundred and fifty dollars off

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Speaker 1: your order A quarter cow, have cow, the whole cow.

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Speaker 1: You want to fill multiple freezers. Oh, they got you covered.

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Speaker 1: Defiancebeef dot Com. Use promo code, Eat Drink Smoke. Get

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty dollars off your order age twenty one days,

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Speaker 1: so incredibly succulent, so tender, and cut to your thickness,

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Speaker 1: cut your specification. The rabbis, the strips, the tenderloins, the brisket.

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Speaker 1: You got ground beef of plenty man. You are going

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Speaker 1: to love the pricing. You are going to love the result.

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Speaker 1: Defiancebeef dot Com are you ready for this list, fingers,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready for this list. Tone the Places the eighth

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Speaker 1: restaurant chains that served the biggest steaks in America. Number

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Speaker 1: one is the Texas Roadhouse. Now I'm starting to question

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Speaker 1: this list. It said the biggest steak. Yes, it didn't

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Speaker 1: say the best steak you'll ever have in your life.

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Speaker 1: We're just talking size baby. Texas Roadhouse is fine. You

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Speaker 1: have a hankering, you don't want to go insane pricing.

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Speaker 1: Texas Roadhouse is just fine.

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Speaker 2: What's there?

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Speaker 3: Do they have onion pedals? I can't remember that because

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Speaker 3: they all they all have some sort of onion boom yeah,

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Speaker 3: I KB boom yeah. So uh you know, if you

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Speaker 3: have enough room for the onion kaboom and they can

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Speaker 3: get yourself a twenty ounce, twenty ounce bon in ribbi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that stuff. And that's under thirty dollars.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: The way Longhorn Steakhouse has U the Longhorn Porterhouse at

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Speaker 1: thirty four ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: It's a twenty two ounce porterhouse.

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Speaker 1: And a porterhouse is a strip and a filet, right, and

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Speaker 1: it has to be of a certain size, of a

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Speaker 1: certain thickness, and it doesn't match.

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Speaker 2: I think this, then it's a tea bone.

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Speaker 1: Tea bone is just a It's a smaller part cut

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Speaker 1: of the meat on each side of the bone. That's

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Speaker 1: the difference between a porterhouse and a tea bow.

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Speaker 3: Now the Longhorn Steakhouse their onion did I believe is

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Speaker 3: the onion branch? I'm maybe making that out up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, outback has the twenty two ounce porterhouse or A

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Speaker 1: said the porthhouse is a twenty two ounce flavorful strip

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Speaker 1: and tenderloin together.

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Speaker 2: As I said, that's what a porterhouse is. Salt Grass?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever seen a salt grass steakhouse?

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Speaker 3: I saw salt Grass open up through Dixie Chicks in

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Speaker 3: ninety eight. It was a fantastic show. Nicely, but no,

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Speaker 3: I've never heard of salt grass before on a dish.

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Speaker 1: Then also them Porterhouse Flemings has the USDA Prime Tomahawk

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Speaker 1: thirty five ounces, one hundred and eighteen dollar.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what's the most you spent on a steak that

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Speaker 3: you remember?

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Speaker 1: You and I in Iowa we were covering the Iowa Caucuses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we drove out there for three days and we

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Speaker 1: went to what I consider to be the best steakhouse

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Speaker 1: in America, which is eight to one chop eight o

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Speaker 1: one chop house, and I figure each of our steaks

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Speaker 1: were some at the time somewhere around seventy five eighty dollars.

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Speaker 3: This was twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I have a picture of you, Steriga,

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Speaker 1: that's sake, Like, my god, how am I gonna eat this?

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Speaker 3: I Tony talked me into it because I didn't want it,

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Speaker 3: because I knew I wasn't going to finish it. I

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Speaker 3: think it was a thirty two ounce prime rib. It

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Speaker 3: was crazy. It was as big as my head with

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Speaker 3: some of my neck to spare.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could talk about Hugo Seller, you can

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Speaker 1: talk about here in Indianapolis, Saint Elmos. These are fine places

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Speaker 1: with great experiences, But in terms of the actual steak,

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Speaker 1: eight O one chop is still the best steak I've

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Speaker 1: ever had in my life.

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Speaker 3: That was nine years ago and we're still talking about

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh.

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Speaker 1: If I was back in De Moin, it's not even

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Speaker 1: a question right there on it. Then Ruth Chris has

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Speaker 1: a twenty six ounce Cowboy Rabbi that you can get Morton's, which.

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Speaker 2: Does a solid job.

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Speaker 1: Twenty eight ounce Empire, cut Bone in New York, Strip Strip,

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Speaker 1: Ribbi Tenderloin.

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Speaker 2: Where are you?

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Speaker 3: I used to be Strip. I'm leaning more towards Ribbi now.

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Speaker 2: I'm totally Rebell guy Strip Medium, Rare, Ribbui Medium.

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Speaker 3: The wife and I stumbled into a Morton's fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 3: not knowing what it was. We know, I mean, we

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Speaker 3: wanted a steak and then we walked in and we're like, well,

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Speaker 3: we weren't expecting to spend this kind of money, but

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Speaker 3: Yolo and so enjoyed the whole experience.

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Speaker 2: Did he just finished banging it off?

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was. It was totally worth the twelve years

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Speaker 3: of payments for that stake.

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Speaker 2: Defiancebeef dot Com. That's right, I'm pushing a sponsor. Keep

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Speaker 2: it here.

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Speaker 1: Our interview with Michael Hrclotz Heat Drink, smoke, Eat, drink, smoke.

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Speaker 2: It is your cigar Bourbon FOODI Extravaganza.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tony Katz that his fingers blow and Michael Hrklotz

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Speaker 1: of Phario Otago was in town. Incredible Cigars. The Suma,

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Speaker 1: the Generoso, the Aleegancia caught up to him at blend

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Speaker 1: Barr's Cigars. He was doing a live event. We talked

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Speaker 1: about the business of cigars. Michael Hrclotz or of Phariotago

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Speaker 1: before we get into the cigar and what you've been

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Speaker 1: doing lately in this I'm gonna call it a rebrand.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you would, but see things seem different.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the cigar world, and we have

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Speaker 1: tariff's galore. We have a very different economy than we

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Speaker 1: had just a couple of years ago during the boom

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Speaker 1: of COVID. What are we because cigars weren't boom because

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Speaker 1: people had free time and free cash.

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Speaker 2: Yes, what's going on.

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Speaker 4: I've been in the industry twenty six years and I've

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Speaker 4: been fortunate enough to be surrounded by peers who are

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Speaker 4: a generation ahead of me because I got in so young.

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Speaker 4: And so let's say my perspective is a forty to

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Speaker 4: fifty year understanding of the industry. I can tell you

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Speaker 4: where one hundred percent certainty, there was never a year

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Speaker 4: where anyone said, well, this one was easier, Right, it

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Speaker 4: doesn't exist. So how far back do we want to

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Speaker 4: go to look at the challenges that our industry faceless from.

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Speaker 4: We were never going to get through a smoking You

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Speaker 4: can't smoke in a restaurant. You can't smoke on an airplane.

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Speaker 4: What are we gonna do? You can't smoking a restaurant.

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Speaker 4: What are we gonna do, FDA, What are we gonna do?

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Speaker 4: You know what we're gonna do. We are gonna keep

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Speaker 4: making the best cigars we can make, and we're gonna

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Speaker 4: keep delivering them at the best prices that we can

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Speaker 4: and we're gonna do stuff like this, and we're gonna

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Speaker 4: find a way to continue to grow and to wing.

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Speaker 4: And that's what our industry does. We are the most resilient,

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Speaker 4: we're the most misunderstood, we are the most confusing, but

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Speaker 4: we're the most beloved by the people who enjoy handmade,

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Speaker 4: premium cigars. And so we will continue to be resilient.

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Speaker 4: And if it's taxes this year and tarifs the next year,

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Speaker 4: and a smoking band here and a thing there, we're

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Speaker 4: gonna fight. We're gonna try and educate, we're gonna advocate,

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Speaker 4: but we are going to continue to persevere.

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Speaker 1: I'm not discussing that the industry isn't resilient, that people

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Speaker 1: aren't resilient. Uh, But this this challenge is certainly a

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Speaker 1: unique one because this isn't so much a question of

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Speaker 1: how you find the smoker. It's a question of whether

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Speaker 1: or not the smoker can afford the thing. The prices

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Speaker 1: have gone up, I mean, that's not really a deniable.

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Speaker 4: Some prices have gone up, But when you look at

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Speaker 4: the full landscape of handmade premium cigars, you can still

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Speaker 4: buy a handmade long filler cigar with good flavor and

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00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 4: good burn for five dollars. You can buy lots of

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Speaker 4: cigars for more than that. Even if you look at

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Speaker 4: our portfolio, we are four years old next month in

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Speaker 4: market understanding how Faryotago is fery Otago. We have brands

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Speaker 4: that are ten years old. We have brands that are

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Speaker 4: almost thirty years old. But when you look at the

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Speaker 4: entirety of our portfolio, you can get into Ferryotago at

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00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 4: seven dollars and you exit at twenty four. And so,

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Speaker 4: even though it's so easy to be consumed by the

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Speaker 4: headlines of one hundred dollars, this in five hundred debt

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Speaker 4: and everything is fifty dollars and up, it's none.

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Speaker 2: And there are.

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Speaker 4: Such incredible cigars on the market today for seven dollars

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00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 4: and twelve dollars and fifteen dollars and eight dollars. You

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Speaker 4: need to find them and they're out there.

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Speaker 1: Michael Herclott's Pharry Otago Cigars, those brands that you guys

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Speaker 1: have coming over from Nat Sherman as you were there

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Speaker 1: spent a number of years there is first time I

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Speaker 1: ever met you was at the at the townhouse. And

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Speaker 1: now introducing you talk about four years, that's nascance, that

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Speaker 1: that is still fetus level. It's zero years in the

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Speaker 1: world of cigars, the whole farioh Tago, the Alegancia, the

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Speaker 1: general asso of the Suma, which I think was well

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Speaker 1: I'm smoking right now and most.

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Speaker 2: People are aware of even.

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Speaker 1: For you and the history you have and the history

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Speaker 1: that you then acquired and taking backs of those brands

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Speaker 1: from that Sherman.

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Speaker 2: It's the cigarettes sold to other groups.

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Speaker 1: How hard is it to build a brand And is

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Speaker 1: it harder now?

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's the hardest.

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Speaker 4: If you think of any any industry that only gets

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00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 4: more mature, it doesn't start over. So you are always

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00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 4: your point of entry is always your point of entry,

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00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 4: and that's day zero for you, and even regardless of

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00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 4: time served, right, Ferry Otago is four years, which is

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00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 4: exactly zero years and brand years. We just had a

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Speaker 4: little VIP gathering with folks and I said, think of

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Speaker 4: all the things you love and consume, the cars you drive,

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00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 4: the shoes you wear, the clothing you buy, the beverages

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Speaker 4: you drink. How many of those are a brand that's

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00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 4: less than five years zero? How do you become relevant

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00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 4: to people who are already in life love with the

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Speaker 4: brands and blends and that they love. It is a

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Speaker 4: herculean feed And you would think it would be the

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Speaker 4: easiest today, because it's the easiest time that we've ever

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Speaker 4: had to speak directly to consumers through social media, through

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Speaker 4: all these other platforms, except those very platforms are against us,

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Speaker 4: our beautiful little craft thing.

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Speaker 2: They're against us, right, So I would say it is the.

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Speaker 4: Hardest time ever to create and build a brand in

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Speaker 4: the history of our industry, because our industry is more

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Speaker 4: mature today than it was yesterday. Now that said, we

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Speaker 4: are very fortunate to have time and market that I've

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Speaker 4: had as a as a person, having the four years

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Speaker 4: we've had in market as a brand, having a great

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Speaker 4: distribution partner like davidov USA representing US throughout the United States,

433
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 4: that having incredible menu factoring partners, like Placentia Casada and

434
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 4: Agro Industrious and Unduras. There's also not a lot of

435
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 4: new brands that have that kind of foundation, And so

436
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 4: that's not to say that it's easier, because with all

437
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 4: of that comes higher expectations. So I would say that

438
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction, and

439
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 4: from a branding perspective, having a start like that comes

440
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 4: with expectations that are very difficult to meet, which is

441
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 4: why we're doing what we're doing. You know, my background

442
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: is music. You don't just sit in the studio and record.

443
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 4: You have to get out and play, and you have

444
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 4: to be live, and you play small rooms and you

445
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 4: play big rooms, and you play festivals and you play

446
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: charity events, and you do whatever it takes for people

447
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: to hear your music and love your work.

448
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 2: Now, that's what we do. To that end.

449
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: Here you are in Indianapolis, where I live, and thrilled

450
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: to see you here at Blend Bar Cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana.

451
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: You were I forget where you were yesterday. I know

452
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna be somewhere else. I forget.

453
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: Tomorrow's at Columbus at Columbus, Ohio, and you're gonna be

454
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: somewhere else Tomorrow. You are on the road, you are

455
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: out there meeting the people. Are other Are other building

456
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: brands doing that or are they just relying on it.

457
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: Hopefully they'll have some good posts on name the social

458
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: media platform that I'll still allow them to post and

459
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: they might get a hit.

460
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

461
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: There was a time when I paid a lot of

462
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 4: attention to what other brands are doing. I'm in a

463
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 4: moment now creatively, and this is particularly inspired as a musician.

464
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: I never as a drummer. I never wanted to sound

465
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 4: like the other drummers. I listen to you that you

466
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 4: take inspiration from what they do to develop your own sound.

467
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 4: We have our own sound in the blends that we

468
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 4: have in market, and so whatever everyone else is doing,

469
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 4: I wish them all the greatest success.

470
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: In the world.

471
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: But I don't know how to do what we're doing

472
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 4: differently than how we're doing it.

473
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: And I believe in.

474
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: Lives as a way to grow, especially when our the

475
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 4: experience of our blends are so unique that it requires

476
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 4: a connection between the audience and the artists.

477
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: We're not playing pop.

478
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: This is different, and so I'm not sure what other

479
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: brands are doing I think we are definitely spending more

480
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 4: time in market talking to retailers and spending time with consumers.

481
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 4: We are spending more time doing that than most brands

482
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: I know, whether they're new or whether they're legacy.

483
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: More with Michael Hrklotz, a Fario Otago coming up, Tony

484
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: Katz fingers LOOI he drinks Mike Tony Katz fingers ALOI

485
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: talking with Michael Hurtklotz, a Fario Otego. Caught up with

486
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: him at Blend Bar cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana. Now talk

487
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: to me about what we've been seeing with the cigar.

488
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: I am smoking the Suma right here at Torpedo. I

489
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: had a Generosso before this, which hit me as a

490
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: lot spicier, a lot more white pepper punch yep than

491
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: I remember.

492
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: Did farryo Otago go through a reblend so.

493
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: Elegancia and Generoso we reapproach annually. They are not core,

494
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 4: so we started with the twenty twenty one, then we

495
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: released Elegancia Generoso twenty two, twenty three, and this year

496
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. Each approach to those experiences are like

497
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 4: a winemaker approaches Charnay and Cabernet, not to replicate the

498
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 4: previous vintage, but to make it again the best they can.

499
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 4: That is specifically the approach with Eleganci in general. So

500
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 4: and that gives us some creative flexibility with those two

501
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 4: blends with Ferry Otago Suma and all of Timeless and

502
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: all of Metropolitan, those are core and so those are

503
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 4: designed to be replicated this production to the last production.

504
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: So even though a tobacco might change, we are adjusting

505
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 4: the blends, so every time you light those cigars, they

506
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 4: are replicative of the last time you had it. Elegancy

507
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: and General, so we take a more vintage approach, a

508
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 4: winemaker's approach to letting each year have a little bit

509
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: of uniqueness to it.

510
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Talk to me about what we're seeing out of Nicaragua,

511
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: out of the Dominican, out of Honduras.

512
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: How is that growing going?

513
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: You know, and we're talking about having a little bit

514
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: of change to things. The tehoah changes, the soil, the experience,

515
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: how things are aging, what's available, what isn't, Especially when

516
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about working with some of the biggest tobacco

517
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: farmers and producers that you deal with. Has it been

518
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: a challenge considering the amount of people who tried to

519
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: get in cigars during COVID thinking that this was going

520
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: to last forever, which nothing lasts forever.

521
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: Yes, it's a similar to answer to how we started.

522
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: It never gets easier. But while it doesn't get easier,

523
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: particularly when you're talking about an annual agricultural crop, you

524
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 4: are at the mercy of God every crop.

525
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: That's an evergreen statement, by the way, but you are also.

526
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: The beneficiary of evolving technology, from irrigation to fertilization, to

527
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: technologies and curing infermentation, and so as we learn more,

528
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 4: which is also an evergreen process, you can apply that

529
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 4: knowledge to each crop to yield better and yield more,

530
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 4: to be more resistant to diseases and molds and pests

531
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 4: that are attacking thoset crops. And so it's not easier,

532
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 4: but every year gets better from a process standpoint, which

533
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 4: is better for everybody. Now, of course, you're facing different tariffs,

534
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: you're facing different governmental issues, you're facing different social issues.

535
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 4: All of the countries, particularly in Central America, Nicaragua and Honduras,

536
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: we're facing mass migration issues of people coming to the

537
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: United States. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

538
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: It forced factories to spend more time doing social responsibility

539
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 4: making life better for their employees. Dominican Republic just did

540
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: a major wage increase, government mandated across all industries. Every

541
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 4: action has an equal and opposite reaction. Prices are going

542
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 4: to reflect some of those investments. But one can't look

543
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 4: at all of that in its entirety and not see

544
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 4: the benefit long term to the sustainability of our industry.

545
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: If people are are yielding better tobaccos, are have better

546
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 4: hiring practices, have better social responsibility practices, Ultimately, that is

547
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 4: sustainable for better, more consistent cigars over the long term.

548
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 4: And if that means it costs a little more, isn't

549
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: it worth it? Because the alternative is unsustainability, it's no employees,

550
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 4: it's dying cross, it's no consistency in production. And then

551
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: where do we end up.

552
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 1: The counter to that conversation, and it is an interesting,

553
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: all encompassing take, is that there comes a moment where

554
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the American consumer part of it than

555
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: let's say the European consumer, where they meet up against

556
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: a price point and say I can't do that anymore.

557
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: So, yes, as that price goes up, is it worth it. Well,

558
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: there's a real question. Let's ask once answer that here.

559
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: It are about what worth it means, no question, but

560
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 4: we can apply that to anything true jeans, sneakers, beer, eyeglasses.

561
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: There will always be something someone can afford, but there

562
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: is also a price and value continuum that continue to evolve.

563
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 4: There are very few things in our lifetime that have

564
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: ever gone down or frankly fluctuated, except for maybe gas oil,

565
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: golden right. Everything else has always gradually crept up. I've

566
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: never paid less for the same pair of Levi's the

567
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: following year.

568
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: Maybe that's why they call them commodities for a reason.

569
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: But you counter that with the European or global market

570
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 4: from a price increase standpoint, the global market has experienced

571
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 4: price increases on their number one cigar origin, which is Cuba.

572
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 4: That is ten x.

573
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

574
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: What the American market has experienced with no baseline to

575
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 4: support what a previous consumer may have considered affordable. Where

576
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 4: that presents opportunity is for the free world companies in Nicaragua, Dominican, Honduras,

577
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: Costa Rica to fill that void with our work, which

578
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 4: for decades has been poop pooed as it's not Cuban.

579
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 4: I'm not smoking it, but guess what now you are?

580
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: And now you are forced to realize that the available

581
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 4: pantry of tobaccos equals the available diversity of flavor, which

582
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: now that the global market is consuming it. The fastest

583
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 4: growing markets are now global markets, international markets versus the US.

584
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: So you had Cuba having its own issues with growing,

585
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: You had this cost thing, and so what you saw

586
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: was an opportunity for other types of cigars to get

587
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: in those European markets, and they seem.

588
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: To be holding like they're holding, sir.

589
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 4: Of course, people want to enjoy cigars. It's become a

590
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,959
Speaker 4: part of their lives. People got into the hobby, let's say,

591
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: in the last five years when where was free money

592
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 4: and free time. There's not anymore. So there was a

593
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: drop off, no different than there was in the nineties.

594
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: But we have plateaued above where we began, and every

595
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: time there are more people who have discovered the hobby

596
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 4: and love it as much as we do and continue

597
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 4: to want to discover it. Every wallet, every budget is different,

598
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 4: every brand is responding to those things. Yeah, but if

599
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 4: we go back to pop there were a lot of

600
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 4: headlines that led with price I think that's serving the

601
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 4: wrong master. I've never had a headline with price. We

602
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 4: have a headline with product and experience. What you see

603
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: today are new headlines with price in the other direction.

604
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 4: And for larger companies that have the ability to scale,

605
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 4: to be adj out, to be mobile, you see new

606
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 4: brands launching every week on the market today with headlines

607
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 4: with more affordable pricing. We are a responsive industry, more

608
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 4: responsive than most, I would say, And so to put

609
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 4: a button on this idea of affordability, I think it's

610
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 4: fair to say that there will always be cigars to

611
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 4: satisfy every budget that are acceptable and enjoyable to the consumer.

612
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 4: Where we put our focus is to make sure that

613
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 4: no matter what we are bringing to market, and no

614
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 4: matter the price, that the consumer is always getting the

615
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 4: best end of that deal. So when you look at

616
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: our portfolio today, you mentioned the general so you smoked

617
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 4: earlier that MSRP price before any local taxes is twenty

618
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: four dollars. Twenty four dollars is not an expension for

619
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 4: a cigar now, But if we look at it in

620
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 4: the landscape of premium cigar pricing today on the American market,

621
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 4: and you look at how many cigars have launched at

622
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 4: twice that price in the last five years, sometimes four

623
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: or five times that price. I feel so confident that

624
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: what you get from Farry Otago at twenty dollars for

625
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 4: that sumer twenty four dollars of this generoso is so

626
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 4: much more than what other brands offer for that money

627
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: that we win.

628
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: Michael Hurcott's appreciate it.

629
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 4: I appreciate you.

630
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: Find this interview in the videos over there at Eat

631
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: drinksmokeshow dot com and on the YouTube channel.

632
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: Just look for Eat Drink Smoke.

633
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: And try yourself a Ferry Otago cigar. Today it's E

634
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: Drink Smoke