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Speaker 1: Live from Vaal, Hartland and the Crossroads of America.

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Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 1: So I followed what happened in the Supreme Court yesterday,

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Speaker 1: this case about tariffs, and went back and listened. And

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Speaker 1: it seemed to me that's Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary

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Speaker 1: who was in the room. He might be having a

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Speaker 1: bit of wishful thinking, because the argument certainly seemed to

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Speaker 1: be against the Solicitor General of the United States. Hey,

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Speaker 1: John Sower, you don't really have a great argument here.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong. So I brought in the legal experts,

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz. Tony Kats today, Good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: William Jacobson joins us right now, Cornell Law, professor of

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Speaker 1: the mind behind legal insurrection dot com and of course

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Speaker 1: equal protect dot org. A tremendous amount being done to

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Speaker 1: ensure universities and other places are playing things fair. You're

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Speaker 1: the legal legal you have seen more of these cases

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Speaker 1: than I have. This case is about whether or not

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Speaker 1: the president can unilaterally impose tariffs, and those tariffs then

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Speaker 1: raising revenue, which was I think a piece people weren't

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Speaker 1: prepared for. Talk to me about the case that's brought

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Speaker 1: before the Supreme Court and what you saw from the

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Speaker 1: court in its reaction, Well.

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Speaker 3: I think the media reaction has been that it was

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Speaker 3: a very bad day for the Trump administration. I'm not

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Speaker 3: so sure that's right. I think it's a lot closer.

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Speaker 3: I think this one could go either way. The issue

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Speaker 3: here is that there's a statute that gives the president

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Speaker 3: emergency powers to do a variety of things. The word

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Speaker 3: tariffs is not in the statue, but the word regulate

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Speaker 3: imports is in the statute, and a lot of the

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Speaker 3: argument was whether that term would encompass imposition of tariffs.

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Speaker 3: And there's two levels to that. One is, everybody, including

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Speaker 3: the challengers, conceded that that word regulate impact ports would

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Speaker 3: give the president the power to completely suspend trade with

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Speaker 3: foreign companies or countries, or at least the imports from

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Speaker 3: foreign countries. And so the argument is, if that extreme

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Speaker 3: power falls under the word regulate imports, why doesn't tariffs?

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Speaker 3: Does that make any sense whatsoever? And I think it was.

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Speaker 3: Kavanaugh referred to it as a huge donut hole, and

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Speaker 3: the lawyer for some of the challengers had acute comeback, well,

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Speaker 3: it's a different type of pastry. But the point is

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Speaker 3: You're supposed to read statutes to make sense. You're supposed

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Speaker 3: to read statutes to assume Congress made sense when it

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Speaker 3: did it, And how does it possibly make sense? And

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Speaker 3: I think this was Kavanaugh questioning, how does it possibly

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Speaker 3: make sense that you're giving the president the power to

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Speaker 3: suspend the imports from China but not to impose a

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Speaker 3: one percent tariff? And so that was kind of the

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Speaker 3: first level. The second level is the government argument. These

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Speaker 3: are not like ordinary tariffs, and they try to distinguish

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Speaker 3: between regulatory tariffs and revenue raising tariffs. These are tariffs

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Speaker 3: which are being used as a foreign policy tool to

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Speaker 3: negotiate trade agreements and other conduct by foreign countries, such

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Speaker 3: as releasing rare earth minerals things like that. And so

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Speaker 3: this is a tool the president is using, not intended

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Speaker 3: and primarily to raise revenue, but using the tariffs as

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Speaker 3: part of the president's foreign policy to which the courts

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Speaker 3: are supposed to give deference. So I don't think this

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Speaker 3: is as close as anyone is set. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't think this is as lopsided as anyone is saying.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying Trump's going to win this one, but

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Speaker 3: I think it's a lot closer than people are giving it.

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Speaker 1: The regular conversation, completely with you. If the president has

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Speaker 1: the power under the IEEPA to regulate trade, this should

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Speaker 1: be within those powers.

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Speaker 2: The argument is if it's raising revenue and tariffs are attacks.

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Speaker 1: Which they seem to agree on as I heard them,

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Speaker 1: then their argument is taxation is something that happens in Congress,

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Speaker 1: and I was all I could think of was John

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Speaker 1: Roberts and Obamacare and deciding that Obamacare was a tax

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Speaker 1: to find.

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Speaker 2: The way to make it be legal.

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Speaker 1: That was the kind of thought that I thought they

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Speaker 1: were going with, regardless of the regular conversation, which I

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Speaker 1: agree with you on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that's going to be an issue.

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Speaker 3: What is the purpose of these tariffs and can you

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Speaker 3: have tariffs that are meant to serve another purpose as

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Speaker 3: opposed to permanent terriffts tariffs that are primarily a revenue

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Speaker 3: raising And so I think that's going to be the issue.

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Speaker 3: Then they got into some subsidiary but potentially important other

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Speaker 3: legal issues like can Congress even delegate to the president

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Speaker 3: the power of taxation things like that so called non

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Speaker 3: delegation doctrine, And if this is a power given by

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Speaker 3: Congress to the president. Is the so called major Issues

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Speaker 3: doctrine going to come in When it's a big issue

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Speaker 3: that affects the entire nation and affects society. It has

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Speaker 3: to be explicit, It has to be clear. You can't

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be arguing over what is the meaning of the

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Speaker 3: word regulate that that's not enough. So there could be

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Speaker 3: some technical legal grounds, but I think this is going

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Speaker 3: to come down to John Roberts. Basically, in Obamacare, he

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Speaker 3: found the individual mandate to be a tax, Okay, to

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Speaker 3: fall under Congress's taxing power. That's the one that required

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Speaker 3: you to buy a policy from an insurance company. And

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Speaker 3: that was a tax that blindsided everybody. It wasn't. It

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Speaker 3: was an argument made during the case by the Obama administration,

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Speaker 3: but nobody focused on it. It came out of, you know,

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Speaker 3: like left field. No one was focused on that except

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Speaker 3: for John Roberts, and he found that that meant it

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Speaker 3: was a taxed Here, if he finds this is a tax,

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Speaker 3: it's just the opposite. It's to rein in the executive branch,

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Speaker 3: not empower it the way Obamacare did or Congress. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know which way this one is going to

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Speaker 3: go clearly the three liberal women are against this. I

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Speaker 3: mean they don't you know. The one thing I'll say

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Speaker 3: about the three liberal women there, they don't hide which

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Speaker 3: way they're going to go, right, you know, by the

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Speaker 3: end of every oral argument, which way they're going, at

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Speaker 3: least on politically charged important issues. The other ones, I'm

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Speaker 3: not so sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, talking to William Jacobs and Cornell Law professor Legal

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Speaker 1: insurrection dot Com, I would say to you that it's

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Speaker 1: it's not even a question that that happened to all

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Speaker 1: be women, the liberal justices. You never have to question

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Speaker 1: where they're at. We always know where they're at. I

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Speaker 1: want to share this with you. This was a commentary

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Speaker 1: over there at CNN regarding this case and regarding President Trump.

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Speaker 2: Let me know if you can hear this listen.

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Speaker 3: Coming from.

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Speaker 4: Questions, but we can just start with Chief Justices Robberts.

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Speaker 4: Why not use the chief justice? As he mentioned, generally,

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Speaker 4: the Congress has the power to tax, and it's a

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Speaker 4: power that's reserved only for them. Trump's lawyers or the

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Speaker 4: administration lawyers are saying that this isn't a tax. What

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Speaker 4: they're doing is essentially regulating imports. This is more about

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Speaker 4: foreign policy, and what they're doing is trying to bring

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Speaker 4: manufacturing jobs back to the United States, So they're regulating

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Speaker 4: import to allow that to happen, and that any taxes

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Speaker 4: that comes from that is incidental. The lawyers on the

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Speaker 4: other side are saying, as BS, this is a tax

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Speaker 4: and only the Congress has the right to do that. Now,

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Speaker 4: it is a note that just as illegal did bring

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Speaker 4: up that in emergency situations, the president does have more power,

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Speaker 4: and we're going to hear this question answered of Trump

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Speaker 4: has this notion now that he can decide when it's

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Speaker 4: an emergency, and he's tried to use that with immigration,

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Speaker 4: he's tried to use that with Terris. I think we're

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Speaker 4: going to get an answer as to whether or not

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Speaker 4: a president can unilaterally decide when it's an emergency, so

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Speaker 4: he should get more power.

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Speaker 1: Then he probably the fundamental problem with that argument, William Jacobson,

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Speaker 1: as I see that's Dante Mills, a criminal attorney there

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Speaker 1: on CNN. If the president can't decide when the emergency is,

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Speaker 1: who in the world decides.

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Speaker 3: I think Trump's going to win that one easily. The

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Speaker 3: issue of ken is this an emergency? I don't think

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court's going to second guess him on that.

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Speaker 3: If they do second guess him, then it's over for

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration. But I don't think, you know, the

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Speaker 3: statute gives the president the power to decide if there's

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Speaker 3: an emergency, and I don't see the Supreme Court, unlike

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Speaker 3: maybe some district court judges nitpicking whether this is an emergency.

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Speaker 3: So I think he wins that. The question really is

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Speaker 3: if this is an emergency and if he did properly

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Speaker 3: invoke emergency powers. Is one of those powers the power

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Speaker 3: to impose tariffs. That's where I think this is going

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Speaker 3: to rise or fall.

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Speaker 1: I've got more with William Jacobson, Carneol Law professor Legal

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Speaker 1: insurrection dot Com coming up talking about Heritage Foundation and

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Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson that leaked meeting with Kevin Roberts the president

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Speaker 1: where people were demanding he resigned. Some people say he

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Speaker 1: wants to stay. But in either case, what really happened here?

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Speaker 1: William Jacobson has the story that's coming up next.

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Speaker 2: Keep it here.

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Speaker 1: This is Tony Katz today, So once again, Speaker Mike

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Speaker 1: Johnson is taken to the podium to talk about the

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Speaker 1: Democrats shutdown, and there was an interesting piece from Byron York.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Byron York where he said, if

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Speaker 1: Democrats are going to continue this thing, you got to

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Speaker 1: start doing oval office addresses and let Trump do the

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Speaker 1: heavy lifting to beat.

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Speaker 2: The snot out of these people. The problem is.

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Speaker 1: Trump wants to end the filibuster, and the Senate has

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Speaker 1: been very clear it ain't happening, it ain't coming.

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Speaker 2: We're not doing it. Stop talking about it. Not that

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Speaker 2: Trump's gonna stop talking about it.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Tony Katz, Tony Kats today, good to

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Speaker 1: be with you. Yes, you heard me right. There is

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Speaker 1: a thought process that Schumer's gonna keep this thing going.

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Speaker 2: Well, we want in New York, we want in Virginia,

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Speaker 2: we want in New Jersey. Clearly we're very.

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Speaker 1: Popular and the people love us. Let's keep it going.

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Speaker 1: Let's keep it going. Let's see how much pain we

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Speaker 1: can exact because we actually believe that Republicans are taking

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Speaker 1: the hits here.

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Speaker 2: This is not the case.

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Speaker 1: But if you can keep pushing a messaging that way

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Speaker 1: without an effective messaging back.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you can turn the tide.

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Speaker 1: And I put forth to you that I think Speaker

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Speaker 1: Johnson has done an outrageously good job regarding the messaging,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it needs a different messenger.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: It's like when your company.

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Speaker 1: Has a CEO and then you realize, wait, this CEO

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Speaker 1: was only built to do this. To get to the

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Speaker 1: next phase, you need a CEO that does something else.

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Speaker 2: This is the difference between the peace time and the wartime.

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Speaker 1: Concilieri, I am not arguing against whether or not Speaker

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's been good at his job.

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Speaker 2: Better.

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Speaker 1: I think that anybody assumed he has handled the speaker position,

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Speaker 1: and I think he's going to be speaker for really

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Speaker 1: as long as he wants to be speaker. But if

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Speaker 1: you want somebody who can drop a hammer on the

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Speaker 1: left and I mean just beat the living you know

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Speaker 1: what's not out of them, then of course what you

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Speaker 1: need is Trump. That's exactly what you need. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's not kid ourselves here. This could be the way,

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Speaker 1: but you can't have the fellow uster conversation involved.

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Speaker 2: But leave that to the side.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible that Democrats think, well, everything's so good,

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Speaker 1: we we're gonna keep getting this. We're gonna fight till

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Speaker 1: we get the subsidies. We're gonna fight, We're gonna keep

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Speaker 1: things closed down things are gonna get bad.

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Speaker 2: People.

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Speaker 1: Grandma is not gonna make it for Thanksgiving. And that's

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Speaker 1: not me talking to you, that's me talking to my kids.

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Speaker 1: Because grandma is supposed to make it for Thanksgiving? What

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to do? Actually let her get on

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Speaker 1: a plane that's gonna be diverted somewhere because of air

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Speaker 1: traffic control.

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Speaker 2: That is not gonna work out well.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I need I need a private plane.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. Why don't I have a private plane.

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Speaker 1: It's madness, I tell you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're serious, right.

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Speaker 1: They're like, our messaging on lowering costs has resonated.

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Speaker 2: This is the clear victory. Let's go keep getting victories. Now.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole conversation here to get into about the

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Speaker 1: election post mortem where Republicans are like, Okay, we've got this,

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Speaker 1: we see what happened here, We're good. Some of it

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Speaker 1: is a touch reactionary. Some of it is stuff we've

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Speaker 1: talked about right here. If you're going to try and

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Speaker 1: sell look how well things are doing, look at where

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Speaker 1: the economy is, you got to actually go sell your message.

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Speaker 2: And Republicans haven't done it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, we know tariffs are increasing costs, here's why we're

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Speaker 1: doing it, and here's why it's gonna help in the

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Speaker 1: long run. Make people feel like they're a part of something.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing to do. The Republicans haven't done it.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this here numerous times, and they're finally

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Speaker 1: starting to get the message.

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Speaker 2: The problem with Democrats is that they overplay their hand.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren said, Democrats have.

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Speaker 1: Cost the country last night, who ran on affordability one,

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Speaker 1: because that is at the heart of what Democrats are

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Speaker 1: fighting for right now. Healthcare is the tip of that,

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Speaker 1: but it's also utility costs, grocery costs, housing costs, all

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Speaker 1: the things that Donald Trump promised to that in fact

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Speaker 1: have increased, Well, they all haven't increased. Settled down, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think you get to blame the president for

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Speaker 1: a lack of housing. That's weird unless you're going to

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Speaker 1: point to a specific policy that keeps the housing from

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Speaker 1: actually taking place. But if your answer is rent control, okay, comedy,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have this conversation and we're gonna show what

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Speaker 1: has happened to New York in other places when they

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Speaker 1: tried this, and how utterly it failed, and how it's

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Speaker 1: going to destroy everything, and how all the money is

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Speaker 1: going to flee, and therefore they're going to raise taxes

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Speaker 1: on people who make sixty two thousand dollars a year

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Speaker 1: and no one's going to be able to afford anything. Well,

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Speaker 1: everyone's dependent on government. It's an ugly scene in scenario.

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Speaker 1: But if you think you can win with that, well,

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Speaker 1: then go about it. That doesn't mean that Republican shouldn't

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Speaker 1: talkbout affordability. It means we should be talking about why

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Speaker 1: the policies we have have more value for you and.

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Speaker 2: Your kids in the long run. But you can't deny that.

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Speaker 1: If you're increasing tariffs and people are paying more for goods,

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Speaker 1: that's a bad scene. You cannot deny economic realities. That

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Speaker 1: is nutty, it's dangerous, it's foolhardy, it's ignorance. And I

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Speaker 1: have said this about Scott Bessett, the Treasury Secretary and others.

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Speaker 1: You can't tell people things are great when it's not.

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Speaker 1: They won't buy the lie, and it is a lie.

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Speaker 2: It's a lie. I don't think you should lie.

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Speaker 1: But the Left always overplays their hand, and their answer

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Speaker 1: is going to be more government, and their answer is

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Speaker 1: going to be more control. And that is going to

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Speaker 1: turn people off. Their answer to affordability is text the

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Speaker 1: other guy more. That's gonna be the whole message. That's

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Speaker 1: going to be the whole everything. Every answer from the

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Speaker 1: left is you pay a little bit more, and you

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Speaker 1: pay a little bit more. And they believe this message

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Speaker 1: was so strong and they can can continue the shutdown.

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Speaker 1: So this is what Republicans are now up against. And

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Speaker 1: Speaker Mike Johnson has thoughts.

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Speaker 6: But they've been out in their districts working very hard

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Speaker 6: to help their constituents navigate through the chaos that's been

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Speaker 6: created by the Democrat shutdown. And if you're keeping count,

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Speaker 6: this is day thirty seven, thirty seven.

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Speaker 7: It seems unbelievable to us that we've gone this long.

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Speaker 6: It is officially, and shamefully, the longest shut down in

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Speaker 6: US history. Republicans feel very helpless about the situation because,

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Speaker 6: as we've noted, there is really nothing for us to negotiate.

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Speaker 6: We sent them a clean cr as you know, back

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Speaker 6: in September September nineteenth, we passed it out of the House.

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Speaker 6: It feels like a lifetime ago, but that was a

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Speaker 6: non partisan measure. It was twenty four pages in link

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Speaker 6: that has no Republican priorities on it at all.

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Speaker 7: It was merely the.

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Speaker 6: Status quo to keep the lights on so that the

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Speaker 6: members of Congress and the Republican and Democrat Party could

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Speaker 6: work together to finish the government funding appropriations process.

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Speaker 2: See.

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Speaker 1: I think this is a right example of right now.

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson might not be the best approach. The approach

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Speaker 1: is we're on day thirty seven of the shutdown and

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Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer wants to starve your kids to death.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Why he wants this, but he will not vote to

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Speaker 1: reopen the government. And Democrats have said, we don't care

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Speaker 1: if your kids die, and we don't care if grandma

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Speaker 1: makes it for Thanksgiving. Democrats have said, we're the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party and we don't give a damn.

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Speaker 2: That's the way it has to be said.

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Speaker 1: And Mike Johnson needs to change the temperature.

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Speaker 2: He needs to do that right now, and.

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Speaker 7: The Democrats try to turn that into a game. Now.

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Speaker 6: We're gonna give you the latest updates on that and

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Speaker 6: where we think this is headed. But I just first

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Speaker 6: want to address in a bit more detail the current

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Speaker 6: state of our politics. It has been very interesting to

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Speaker 6: us to see all the pundits trying to spin the

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Speaker 6: results of the election on Tuesday. I just want to

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Speaker 6: point out some simple facts here, and as usual I

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Speaker 6: try to be concise and give you the highlights here,

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Speaker 6: but there's some things that we really need to point out. First,

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Speaker 6: there were no surprises on Tuesday night. Okay, you had

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Speaker 6: blue states and blue cities that voted blue, to the

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Speaker 6: alarm of no one, to the surprise of no one,

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Speaker 6: that was what was expected. It just so happened that

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Speaker 6: New York and New Jersey and Virginia were the states

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Speaker 6: that were.

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Speaker 7: In the national spotlight on Tuesday.

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Speaker 6: If the tables have been turned, and if the calendar

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Speaker 6: had been different and you had three red states, we'd

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Speaker 6: have an entirely different narrative that you all would be

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Speaker 6: writing about.

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Speaker 7: Don't lose the simple facts.

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Speaker 6: Second, the big headline that everyone is writing about appropriately

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Speaker 6: is that the future of the Democrats was set in

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Speaker 6: New York City. A thirty four year old Marxist is

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Speaker 6: now the leader of the Democratic Party. And it is

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Speaker 6: a very dangerous road for them to go down.

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Speaker 2: But they're going down it without question. They are going down.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, that is a good point that

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Speaker 1: he made. Now It's not a perfect point, but it

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Speaker 1: is a good point. There is an election mortem, and

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Speaker 1: I've been giving it that not everything that you see

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Speaker 1: is the end of civilization, and not everything that you

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Speaker 1: see is actually what is happened. Take a look at numbers,

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Speaker 1: take a look at data. Data tells the story, and

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Speaker 1: when you look at it, you see, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: We are not a communist.

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Speaker 1: Nation, but we do have to be aware of who's running,

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Speaker 1: who gets emboldened.

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Speaker 2: We are not a progressive nation. We have to take

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Speaker 2: a look at what people are.

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Speaker 1: Actually paying attention to, not what we think is so valuable.

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Speaker 2: The numbers don't lie. I've got that coming up. This

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Speaker 2: is Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 1: So I continue my conversation with William Jacobs and Cornell

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Speaker 1: Law professor Legal insurrection dot com regarding all the brujaja

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Speaker 1: regarding the found the Heritage Foundation, this defense that Kevin Roberts,

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Speaker 1: the president of Heritage, put on Tucker Carl the interview

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Speaker 1: with Nick Founts when it was seemed pretty clear based.

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Speaker 2: On the video, he didn't quite understand what had happened.

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Speaker 1: He didn't understand what Tucker was saying, what Nick Fuentes

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Speaker 1: was saying who Nick foun Dace was what Tucker has

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Speaker 1: said before, there was this outrageous disconnect that was taking

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Speaker 1: place right in front of everybody's eyes. Tony Katz, Tony

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Speaker 1: Katz today, good to be with you. I get back

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Speaker 1: to William Jacobson of Legal insurrection dot com. This story

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Speaker 1: is about Kevin Roberts and his defense of Tucker Carlson's

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Speaker 1: interview with white nationalists and ju hater Nick foint Tace.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I'm saying anything that isn't one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Percent accurate based on Nick point as his own comments

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Speaker 1: and commentaries and giving this full throat a defense of

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Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, not that he would have somebody on that

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Speaker 1: you disagree with, but rather any conversation of noticing that

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Speaker 1: is siding with globalists and siding with mouthpieces.

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Speaker 2: The response from Heritage has been.

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Speaker 1: Inside the room massive people have resigned from the Anti terrorism.

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Speaker 2: A task for us here.

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Speaker 1: You have been very very strong on this conversation, as

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Speaker 1: you often are. But Robert said, after a staff meeting

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Speaker 1: was leaked, he's staying in. He's going to remain at

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Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation. If you are going to distill this to

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Speaker 1: a fundamental to an elevator pitch. You are trying to

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Speaker 1: explain this to somebody else's to what the real issue

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Speaker 1: is here?

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Speaker 2: What's the real issue here?

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Speaker 3: The issue is Tucker Carlson, It's not Nick Foenes, okay.

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Speaker 3: And the issue is that the Nick Foentes interview did

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Speaker 3: not is not a one off, okay. This is a

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Speaker 3: two year pattern, basically since October seventh, of Tucker Carlson

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Speaker 3: trying to dram up Christian hatred of Jews, trying going

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Speaker 3: being on a jihad against Israel. So this comes after

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Speaker 3: Tucker has already platformed and promoted and called the most

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Speaker 3: honest living historian, a guy who claims Churchill was the

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Speaker 3: bad guy in World War Two and Hitler was just misunderstood.

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Speaker 3: He found himself in a difficult situation with all these

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Speaker 3: Jews who had no place to go, and he didn't

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Speaker 3: really want to kill them. I mean, that's the gist

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Speaker 3: of what he's saying. So we have that guy, we

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Speaker 3: have Tucker platforming people who are anti Israel, priests who

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Speaker 3: claim that israel I e the Jews are responsible for

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Speaker 3: the decline of Christianity even in the Muslim world, portraying

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Speaker 3: Jews as the problem, Jews as the enemies of Christians,

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Speaker 3: Jews as wantonly killing Christians in the Middle East, when

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Speaker 3: we all know it's the Muslim world that's doing that.

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Speaker 3: In fact, Israel is the one place where Christians are

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Speaker 3: safe in the Middle East. And there's dozens of other

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Speaker 3: instances where he for two years has been on a

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Speaker 3: tear non stop, almost every show or at least every week,

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Speaker 3: platforming and promoting and nodding along with these people who

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Speaker 3: blame Jews for everything, Blame Jews for control of the

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Speaker 3: US government, Blame APAK, which is an American organization of

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Speaker 3: American citizens, for somehow controlling the United States. It's been

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Speaker 3: NonStop with Tucker for two years. And there was huge

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Speaker 3: opposition to Tucker long before the flent Day's interview. Remember

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Speaker 3: all the turmoil at Turning Point USA involving Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 3: was not about Israel. Charlie Kirk was always an Israel supporter.

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Speaker 3: It was over TPUSA platforming Tucker. Tucker has been a

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Speaker 3: chaos agent. He is destroying the MAGA movement, he is

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Speaker 3: on his own agenda, and now he's destroying heritage because

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Speaker 3: for some bizarre reason, there seemed to be a lot

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Speaker 3: of people, including the president of the Heritage Foundation, who

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Speaker 3: put their loyalty to Tucker Carlson, over the loyalty to

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Speaker 3: their organization and over their loyalty to the conservative movement.

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Speaker 3: But give me thes.

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Speaker 1: Are, give me this state, and I think hits people

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Speaker 1: very odd. Tucker's destroying MAGA. Give me give me the

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Speaker 1: basis that you take from that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what is the MAGA movement. It is a coalition.

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Speaker 3: It was a coalition of multiple religions and multiple racists

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Speaker 3: and multiple ethnicities that united around the United States and

439
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 3: making us create again. He has been trying to tear

440
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 3: apart that coalition by ostracizing Jews from it. If in

441
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 3: his price of admission for Jews in American society now

442
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 3: political society, is you have to be anti Israel and

443
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: you have to buy into this notion that Israel is

444
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 3: against Christians. And so he's tearing that apart. People who

445
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 3: support him on the HB one visa went after viciously

446
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: Indian Americans, Okay, And so what he's doing is he's

447
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 3: picking at fault lines in the MAGA movement and he

448
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 3: wants to make it into a essentially a white Christian

449
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 3: Nationalist movement. And if you do that, you have destroyed

450
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: the MAGA movement because you've destroyed the coalition. Remember Donald

451
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 3: Trump had a great victory in twenty twenty four, but

452
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: it wasn't like a twenty point victory, it was a

453
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 3: few points. You start picking away at that coalition, you

454
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 3: start driving people out, You start only accepting into that

455
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: coalition Christian nationalists. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be

456
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: part of the coalition, but I'm saying they're not enough.

457
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: They cannot alone win elections, and so he is destroying it.

458
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: He's going to hand the White House to a Democrat

459
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 3: if this continues. JD. Vance is the heir apparent to

460
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: the nomination. Very troubling how close he is to Tucker,

461
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: and there's been no transparency on that. JD. Vans gave

462
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: got his job apparently because Tucker lobbied Trump to back

463
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: Vance for the Senate and then to make him the

464
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: VP nomination. There's some sort of bizarre relationship here that

465
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: has not been transparent. And I've been calling for over

466
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 3: six months for Jagievans just tell us what your relationship

467
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 3: now is with Tucker. I don't care whether your close

468
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: friends or you're not close friends. We as a voting

469
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: public are entitled to know, and that's not been forthcoming.

470
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 3: So I think you look at how Tucker is picking

471
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: apart the coalition, and that's what I mean when I

472
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 3: say he's destroying the MAGA movement. He's picking apart the coalition,

473
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 3: and that coalition was the only way Republicans can win

474
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 3: an election. You cannot win an election with just one

475
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 3: group or one piece of that movement.

476
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: So now let me remember, I'm not happy with Tucker

477
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: at all. I don't agree with Tucker his comments about

478
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: Russian supermarkets, the interview with Nick Foanta's his conversation about

479
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: Israel at large. But someone's going to say to you,

480
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: what's wrong with criticizing Israel. That's going to be the

481
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: response when you say that about Tucker and the Israel conversation.

482
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: Argument is he isn't criticizing Israel. You're saying he's lying

483
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: about Israel's position vis a vie.

484
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 2: For example, Christians, Yes, exactly.

485
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 3: He always frames things in terms of Christian Christianity. So

486
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: Israel accidentally hit a church in Gaza, he doesn't focus

487
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: on the fact that for twenty years twenty five years.

488
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 3: Christians have been driven out of Gaza by Hamas and

489
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: the Islamis Okay, the popular Christian postpulation of Gaza is

490
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: down to, I think a couple of thousand people. So

491
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: they have been ethnically cleansed from Gaza. Hamas launches a

492
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: war on Israel. In the course of that war, a

493
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: church is hit. And that's what Tucker focus is on. Okay.

494
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 3: Has he even talked about Sudan. Has he talked about

495
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 3: the massacre of Christians throughout the Muslim world. He hyper

496
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 3: focuses on Israel, frames it in terms of well, I

497
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: think I'm almost quoting him exactly. Well, I'm a Christian,

498
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: I'm entitled to be concerned about this. Why does he

499
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 3: phrase it that way? And he phrases it that way

500
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: because if you look at what his agenda is, his

501
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: agenda is to use Israel as a cudgel against Jews

502
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 3: around the world, but including American Jews, in order to

503
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: drive them out of our political system. And so, yeah,

504
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: nobody Israeli's criticized Israel. Everybody criticizes Israel. This notion that

505
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: we're not allowed to criticize Israel, well, everybody criticizes Israel.

506
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 3: But when you hyper focus on it, when it's the

507
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 3: only thing you care about, when you pose it in

508
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: religious terms, when you lie about it, when you do

509
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: all those things, there's something wrong here. And we don't

510
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: have to ignore what we're seeing with Tucker Carlson. It's

511
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: very clear what his agenda is. And if it wasn't clear,

512
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: it became clear when he gave a fluff interview to

513
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: a neo Nazi. I think you were way too kind

514
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: towards Nick Fuentes. Okay, and think about this, Tucker car

515
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 3: is good friends, we believe still with jd Vance, Nick

516
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: Fine has said the worst things.

517
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: About jd Vance and jd Vance's wife and.

518
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: Jd Vance's wife using racial epitaph to her because she's

519
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: of Indian background, And Tucker brings this guy on his

520
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: show and doesn't confront him about this. So Tucker doesn't

521
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 3: even stand up for the wife of his best friend

522
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: on that show with Nick Fuentes. What is going on here?

523
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: And so you know, Tucker has become a malign influence.

524
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: Uh.

525
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: And I think it's not going to get better. And

526
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: I really wish that Donald Trump would speak out about it.

527
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: He did speak out about it when Tucker, when Tucker

528
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: sided with Iran, Okay, literally sided with Iran, and I

529
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: think Trump called him Kookie Trump. I think you know,

530
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: Trump has been so good on so many of these issues.

531
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: He's I hope he realizes the damage Tucker is doing, uh,

532
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 3: not just to the present, but to the future, to

533
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight. I think Tucker's doing damage to the

534
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: coalition that's necessary for a Republican to win. I think

535
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: he's doing damage to our efforts to get things done

536
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: within the government. And I think he's doing tremendous damage

537
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 3: to JD. Vans, who has done a great job as

538
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: Vice president. I'm not ampti JD. Vans, but he's got

539
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: to address the issue that the most malicious force, the

540
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: most damaging force in Republicans sphere nowadays, is his best friend.

541
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 3: And he's got to address that. And that's all I've

542
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: been calling for. Tell us what you think about it,

543
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: don't hide behind words, don't be silent about it. This

544
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 3: is not going to go away, and it's not going

545
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: to get better. Address it, and then people can make

546
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: a decision as voters, and we will leave it.

547
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: There are two things I don't know if the term

548
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: was kooky that President Trump used about Tucker, but he

549
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: clearly disagreed with Tucker's assessment that going after Natan's and

550
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: Isfahan and Fourdeau.

551
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: These nuclear sites would lead to World War three.

552
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: And clearly Tucker Carlson was very, very very wrong about

553
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: what that would be. And never in my life have

554
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: I been told that I'm way too kind.

555
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: To Nick Fintes. That's universally a first for me, for sure.

556
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: William Jacobson, Cortnell, Law professor, Legal insurrection dot com. I

557
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time to be with us more

558
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: to get to I'm Tony Katz.

559
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: This is Tony Katz today.

560
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: Of course, the headline is that Nancy Pelosi isn't seeking reelection,

561
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: but we already telegraphed that. We told that story last week.

562
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: Tony Kats, Tony Katz today. Good to be with you.

563
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: But I think that what we need to be getting

564
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: into is from this off year election, the post mortem,

565
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: because I have never seen the Republicans move so quickly

566
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: in saying, okay, we see the problem.

567
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: We got this all right.

568
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: This affordability conversation is really it really the issue, really

569
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: the story, and you know what it's our fault for

570
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: not talking about it, not selling our message better.

571
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 5: You'll hit another record high, like really record high. It's great,

572
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 5: and that equates this not just rich people. That's four

573
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 5: oh one case. I mean that equates to everybody. And

574
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 5: the country is doing very well. But as Republicans, you

575
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 5: have to talk about it because if you don't talk

576
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 5: about it, you know, I saw that they kept talking

577
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 5: about affordability. Well, Biden was a disaster with affordability. He

578
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 5: had the highest inflation rate in the history of our country.

579
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 5: But you have to talk about it. It's no good

580
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 5: if we do a great job and you don't.

581
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: Talk about it.

582
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: He is talking about the press and I'm talking about him.

583
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: Did I tell hello, Tony Katz, good to be with you.

584
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: That's the president and he's right. You have to talk

585
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: about these things. You have to sell your story. Well,

586
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: one of the stories being sold. And this is just

587
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: part of the election post mortem. The data matters. We

588
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: can we can be drawn into social media talking points

589
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: from so called influencers, or we could actually take a

590
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: look for ourselves.

591
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: Data tells stories.

592
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: Now, one of the pieces of data that tells the

593
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: stories that mom Donnie gets elected as the mayor elect

594
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: in New York and the fire commissioner resigned the day after.

595
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: Tells a story. That story connects.

596
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: With the idea that well, one million, thirty six thousand

597
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: people voted for Mamdani, million people voted for Zorn Mamdani.

598
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: I would like to give you some context that matters.

599
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: There are eight point four million people who live in

600
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: New York. Now, you can argue.

601
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: That some of them are children, and they're not all voters,

602
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: but eight point four million of the eight point four million,

603
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 1: the number of votes that I see right now that

604
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: we're cast two million, fifty five thousand. There's an estimated

605
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: remaining of one hundred and forty five thousand, So call

606
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: it two point two million votes, two point two million votes.

607
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: But since those other one hundred and forty five thousand

608
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: aren't in yet, we don't know the results.

609
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: Right, There's always some straggler things.

610
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Let's say it as it is, two million, fifty five

611
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: thousand votes.

612
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: In a city of eight point four million people.

613
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Of those two million, fifty five thousand, one million, thirty

614
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: six thousand and fifty one people voted for Czarron Momdanni

615
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: a million out of eight point four that's twelve point

616
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: three three percent. Let's round it up to twelve point

617
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: three four percent. Less than twelve and a half percent

618
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: of New York voted for this kami. Maybe we all

619
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: need to take breath. Maybe we all need to recognize

620
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: that elections are won by the people who show up.

621
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: Maybe a ground game is very, very important, and maybe

622
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: some dollars should have been put into these ground games.

623
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: But Republicans didn't bother with that because they were running

624
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: Curtis Sliwa and they knew that was a mistake from

625
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: the beginning, so much so that they had to go

626
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: for Andrew Cuomo. Now there's an interesting piece of data

627
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: there that people who didn't have a college degree or

628
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: an advanced degree went for Cuomo and people who had

629
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: advanced degrees went for Momdani. And that'll make the left say,

630
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: you see, smart people go for the smart guy. No

631
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: college educated people are indoctrinated.

632
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 2: To vote for comedies. That's the data point.

633
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: The numbers matter, and if we're not going to look

634
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: and learn from that, we're nuts. If we're going to

635
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: learn from everything a every so called influencers yelling at

636
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: this group and yelling at that group for their own fiefdom.

637
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: We are lost.

638
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: You can't win that way, you can't organize that way,

639
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: you can't focus that way.

640
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: Screw that.

641
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: Let's be smarter than that. Find everything at Tony kats

642
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: dot com. Tomorrow, everyone take care of

643
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: His na