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Speaker 1: Joining me now on the Java House Peel and Poor

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Speaker 1: Guest line. You hear him on this show, I would

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Speaker 1: say nearly weekly because there are always new injuries to

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Speaker 1: talk about. He is the foremost expert when it comes

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Speaker 1: to athletic training. Ralph Reef dot com r e i

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Speaker 1: f f dot com. You should go to the website

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Speaker 1: just to look at the different places in which Ralph

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Speaker 1: has worked as an athletic trainer and the different places

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Speaker 1: in which he's had an impact on that profession, because

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Speaker 1: that alone is impressive. But he joins us now in

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Speaker 1: the program, and Ralph, I want to begin with this.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the time before we get into the Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones injury. Riley Leonard, who is a player that trained

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Speaker 1: going into the draft with Philip Rivers, amongst other quarterbacks

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Speaker 1: who have done so. But Riley Leonard after his game

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Speaker 1: in Jacksonville with the Colts, now we know has a

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Speaker 1: Grade one PCL sprain. I have no idea what that means.

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Speaker 1: So that means roughly what and how severe is something

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Speaker 1: like that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, good afternoon, Jake and Riley Leonards. So PCL

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Speaker 2: is the posterior cruciate ligament of the knee. There are

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Speaker 2: four substantial ligaments in the knee. The anterior cruciate ligament

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Speaker 2: a c L, we know, so the brother of that

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Speaker 2: is the PCL, and it does very little work compared

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Speaker 2: to what the ACLAN.

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Speaker 1: So that's the knee ligament. The Jake knee ligament is

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Speaker 1: the PCL ligament.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So Jake, you're you're pretty much not needed

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Speaker 2: a lot of the time, okay, And until such time

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Speaker 2: that basically the knee might get hyper extended. And so

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Speaker 2: the big leg or the big bone on the bottom

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Speaker 2: of the leg, the tibia slides backwards a little bit

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Speaker 2: and in the knee joint and its sprains or stretches

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Speaker 2: that PCL. And that lines up with his what I read.

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Speaker 2: You know, he finished the game, he got on the plane,

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Speaker 2: he went home, walked into the complex Monday morning and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: my knee hurts. And so quite honestly, that's really good

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Speaker 2: news that he's got a Grade one sprain of the

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Speaker 2: post chair cruishit ligament that can be managed. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of good ways to manage that in a short

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Speaker 2: period of.

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Speaker 1: Time, okay. And the so let me ask you this, Ralph,

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Speaker 1: when the average weekend warrior, and maybe there's no definitive

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Speaker 1: answer on this. I realize every situation is different. But

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Speaker 1: for the average person that just goes out and plays

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Speaker 1: some pickup ball with some buddies, or you know, does

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Speaker 1: some pickleball, whatever it might be, and they get they

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Speaker 1: simply get home and like, man, my knee was just

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Speaker 1: last night, I got to be honest with my knee

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Speaker 1: was kind of sore. Is that typically would the PCL

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Speaker 1: be the most likely of the injuries that the average

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Speaker 1: person and would.

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Speaker 2: See, No, no, it's not, Jake. The PCL is it's

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Speaker 2: not high on the list of ligament injuries in the knee.

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Speaker 2: The MCL, the medio collateral ligament, is the most commonly

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Speaker 2: injured ligament of the knee. That's where your knee sort

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Speaker 2: of buckles in to the inside. So there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that support the back side of the knee.

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Speaker 2: The hamstring tendons come down and cross across the back

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Speaker 2: of the joint, and the calf muscles come up and

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Speaker 2: attach above the knee joints, so there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: bracing back there naturally, so the PCL has a lot

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Speaker 2: of protection. So I assume he got you know, It's

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Speaker 2: the NFL, right, So any hit is a big hit.

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Speaker 2: And so something occurred that jammed him either in the

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Speaker 2: lower leg or up in the quad the thigh area

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Speaker 2: that that forced that knee into its pretty sessive hyper extension.

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Speaker 1: By the way, for the mcl I loved their bag Telapia,

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Speaker 1: Their big Telapia is fabulous. The cinnamon rolls at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day at mcl are also fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Ralph. For what say earth? They had some fish? What

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Speaker 2: was the almadine? The fish Almandine? I think was really good?

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Speaker 1: Fantastic, right, I mean no question. Ralph Reef is my

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Speaker 1: guest Java House, Peel and Port guest line. Okay, Ralph.

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Speaker 1: So the the Riley Leonard, I know that one thing

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Speaker 1: that I've learned in the discussions that we've had is

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Speaker 1: that when there are ligament injuries or stress to a ligament,

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Speaker 1: you always, as a trainer, like to see twenty one

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Speaker 1: days from day of impact. For lack of a better phrase,

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Speaker 1: would that be the case with Riley Leonard with a

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Speaker 1: Grade one PCL strain? Is it still under that? Look,

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Speaker 1: he's going to need three weeks before we bring it

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Speaker 1: back in and revisit it mode or is that a

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Speaker 1: shorter term injury.

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Speaker 2: Well, they graded this as a Grade one, which is

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Speaker 2: as mild as you can get on the grading scale.

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Speaker 2: So they did that via imaging, MRI et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: so so you shorten the clock. So because it's minor,

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Speaker 2: you're going to have need less time for that to

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Speaker 2: feel better. And really, from this standpoint, Jake, you're right,

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Speaker 2: and I appreciate you being a good student of the

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Speaker 2: biology of these things, but we're going to shorten that

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Speaker 2: timeframe for the PCL. Again, the hamstring, all that musculature

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Speaker 2: on the backside of the knee helps protect it and

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Speaker 2: it can sit there and sort of bathe in its

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Speaker 2: own inflammation and it'll heal pretty well with that. But again,

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Speaker 2: tight clock, and that PCL is going to heal up

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Speaker 2: quicker than the twenty one day clock that I usually

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Speaker 2: put on them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the injury to Daniel Jones. And

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Speaker 1: again Ralph Rief is my guest, and I want to

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Speaker 1: be clear, you know, out of respect to Ralph, these

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Speaker 1: are not situations where you are the trainer on record

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Speaker 1: for them, So we're speaking in generalities here as opposed

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Speaker 1: to this. You know, a specific nature on say Daniel Jones.

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Speaker 1: But when we know that Daniel Jones had the torn

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Speaker 1: achilles and it was in a leg opposite of where

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Speaker 1: we had previously talked about the fibula fracture, is it

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Speaker 1: possible or even probable that that tear came from a

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Speaker 1: compensation of the way he was moving because of the

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Speaker 1: pain from the other side.

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Speaker 2: Your intelligence starts today, So yes, that is very much

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Speaker 2: a compensation issue. The first thought I had I happened

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Speaker 2: to be up in Green Bay and folks up there

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Speaker 2: came out and said, Hey, Daniel Jones, I think he

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Speaker 2: just tore his achilles. And I was like, which leg

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Speaker 2: is it? And and they said it was his right leg,

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Speaker 2: And I said, he's been limping. He's been putting all

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Speaker 2: his weight on that right leg ever since the injury

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Speaker 2: to the fibula, and so predictable. No, but ben once

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Speaker 2: should happen to say man, A high percentage of the

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Speaker 2: rationale of why has to go to the fact that

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Speaker 2: he was basically doing one leg at hops for this

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Speaker 2: entire injury period. You know, we mentioned last week talking

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Speaker 2: about how painful that intererossious membrane is between the fibula

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Speaker 2: and the tibia, and I watched him on television with

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Speaker 2: some of his warm up stuff and that they had on,

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Speaker 2: and I could just see, you know, hips lifted a

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Speaker 2: little higher on that left side. He was really putting

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Speaker 2: a lot of pressure on the right leg and didn't

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Speaker 2: anticipate it. But I'm not shocked that that compensation caused

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Speaker 2: that incident to occur.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of an injury, Okay, And we're going to

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Speaker 1: speak again in generalities here, but a high level athlete

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Speaker 1: that is twenty eight years old and has the phibi

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Speaker 1: the issue on the left side, and now the achilles

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Speaker 1: on the right. The achilles is going to be the

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Speaker 1: longer term injury. If we are in December right now,

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Speaker 1: the a realistic time frame as to when Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: will have complete range of movement and basically unimpeded movement

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Speaker 1: getting back onto the field would be what month.

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Speaker 2: Well, don't compare it to Tyrese because of the difference

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Speaker 2: in sports, right and so I would anticipate that between

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Speaker 2: now and camps in May. You know, that's six months

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Speaker 2: from now, he could very much be flat footed, no boot,

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Speaker 2: no restriction of flat footed movie sort of getting up

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Speaker 2: on his toes and throwing the football, and so I

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Speaker 2: would anticipate seeing that as well. That you know, come May,

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Speaker 2: I think people will be very excited and say, boy,

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Speaker 2: he looks great. He looks great, but there will be

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Speaker 2: an additional probably four months of time. So now we're

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Speaker 2: into ten months, which puts us into what October to

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Speaker 2: where sitting here in the cold of December and trying

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Speaker 2: to forecast this, I would say, ten months from now

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Speaker 2: you would have a very normal looking quarterback with both

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Speaker 2: legs available.

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Speaker 1: So would he be able to go the full rigor

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Speaker 1: of workout, say in August, in September you're saying, Ralph,

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Speaker 1: and then October is when he looks good or October

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Speaker 1: is when he can then finally begin to ramp that up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in generalities, and now Jake, in generalities, I would

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Speaker 2: see that as he would be a be able to jog,

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Speaker 2: be able to be in controlled settings, so you know,

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Speaker 2: he might mirror a coach or an athletic trainer that

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Speaker 2: sort of mirrors his tells him to move left, move right,

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Speaker 2: move backwards, forwards, backpedal, so forth, in controlled environment where

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Speaker 2: you can ask questions after each movement, how do you feel,

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Speaker 2: what's that look? Like, what's your heart rate at? And

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Speaker 2: so yeah, he'll have a lot of good controlled activity

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Speaker 2: throughout the summer months.

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Speaker 1: Ralph, Before I let you go, I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you this. You know, I had somebody that told me

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Speaker 1: once they were in the in the Air Force, and

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Speaker 1: their job in the Air Force is they were a

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Speaker 1: mechanic on the Air Force, you know, in the Air Force,

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Speaker 1: and they worked on some of the carriers out in

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Speaker 1: the you know, at sea. And he said, man, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what. He goes. There was there was always

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Speaker 1: such a cool thing when the pilots would take off

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Speaker 1: after we had done a routine maintenance on the plane.

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Speaker 1: They would kind of dip the wings as they took off,

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Speaker 1: kind of as a salute and a tip of the

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Speaker 1: cap to the guys that had worked on the planes.

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Speaker 1: And he goes. It was always such a gratifying feeling

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Speaker 1: and it was so cool and it made my work

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Speaker 1: worth it. Do you, as a trainer feel that when

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Speaker 1: you see an athlete? And I know that as a trainer,

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Speaker 1: you know, you get to know individuals, but at the

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Speaker 1: same time, you still have a job to do, right,

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Speaker 1: which is just to treat to determine what's going on

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Speaker 1: and then to advise on how to get a player

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Speaker 1: healthy again. Do you get that feeling of a gratifying

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Speaker 1: feeling when you see an athlete going out and running

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Speaker 1: back out on the field for the first time.

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Speaker 2: You captured it very well, Jake, And I'm almost emotional

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Speaker 2: as you talk about that, because i can recall so

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Speaker 2: many times where you assist an athlete as an athletic

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Speaker 2: trainer and you've got them at their most vulnerable time

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Speaker 2: when they're you know, initially injured, and you work with

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Speaker 2: them through the time going back and they're the ones

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Speaker 2: who can fight in you. Uh, they cry on your shoulder,

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Speaker 2: they cuss at you, there's all of that process. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: when they when they get back to their craft at

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Speaker 2: full go, there's there's an unbelievable amount of of of

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Speaker 2: pride and and so forth. I'll give you a true

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Speaker 2: story from this weekend. I was in Green Bay with

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Speaker 2: the Packers Chris Carr doctor Chris Carr sports psychologists. He's

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Speaker 2: worked with multiple organizations around the world. He's been with

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Speaker 2: the Packers the last six years full time, and their

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Speaker 2: quarterback Jordan Love, made a comment in the media this

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Speaker 2: week that he says, you know, the game goes well

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Speaker 2: when I get in the flow, and that comes exactly

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Speaker 2: from doctor Chris Carr sitting with him and teaching him

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Speaker 2: about mental toolkits and and how to manage the game.

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Speaker 2: And so I was with Chris and he shared that

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Speaker 2: comment with me and replayed the tape and Chris's eyes

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Speaker 2: watered up. I mean, yeah, we get pretty tied up

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Speaker 2: in these athletes and what they do. If it's a

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Speaker 2: driver getting behind a car, if it's a pit crew member,

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Speaker 2: if it's somebody coming back from any kind of injury

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Speaker 2: or mental health situation. It's very very gratifying that that's

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Speaker 2: what fires the engine each day.

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Speaker 1: Ralph Ralph excuse me, reef dot com r e i

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Speaker 1: F F Ralph reef dot com Executive Performance Solutions, and

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Speaker 1: you can read all about his incredible journey as a

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Speaker 1: trainer in the different work that he has done and

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Speaker 1: continues to do, which includes the biggest task of all,

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Speaker 1: and that is occasionally saying that I'm intelligent on this

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Speaker 1: radio program, which is very much appreciated, even if only

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Speaker 1: for a fleeting moment, and even if it's only over

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Speaker 1: the agreement of the fabulous food at MCL. Ralph appreciate

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Speaker 1: the time as always and certainly look forward to talking

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Speaker 1: to you again.

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Speaker 2: Okay, have a great day, Jake.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Ralphreef joining me on the program on

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Speaker 1: the Java House, Peel and Poor Guest slot