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Speaker 1: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of

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Speaker 1: a free state, the right of the people to keep

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Speaker 1: in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy.

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Speaker 2: Boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom, boom,

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Speaker 2: boom bang bang.

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Speaker 3: Bom Guy Ralphord on ninety three WYBC.

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Speaker 4: And good afternoon, and welcome to the Gun Guy Show

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Speaker 4: on ninety three WYBC. Thrilled to be here. It's beautiful day. Sorry,

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Speaker 4: how nice is it that it's cooled off a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you what I'm going to enjoy tomorrow. I'm

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Speaker 4: going to get out after church and shoot some sporting class.

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Speaker 4: If you're up at Indiana Gun Club there midday or so,

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Speaker 4: may very well see you. Would love to run into you.

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Speaker 4: Great weekend to be busting some primers and exercising your

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Speaker 4: Second Amendment rights outdoors. The shooting that we saw this

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Speaker 4: past week and four people were killed, it's fair to

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Speaker 4: call it a mass shooting. We had a guy with

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Speaker 4: the history of mental problems, as mass shooters tend to have,

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Speaker 4: who drove all the way from Las Vegas to Manhattan

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Speaker 4: and New York City and he's a guy who believed

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Speaker 4: that he had traumatic brain injury from playing high school football.

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Speaker 4: And listen, I don't discount the possibility that that happened.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I played football from third grade through four

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Speaker 4: years of college, and I'd like to think that I

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Speaker 4: don't have any symptoms of a lot of times they

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Speaker 4: call CTE or traumatic brain injury to use a different term,

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Speaker 4: but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen to some other people,

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Speaker 4: depending on what contact you experienced and how many direct

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Speaker 4: blows to your head, any number of other things. And

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Speaker 4: my point in bringing this up is not to debate

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Speaker 4: football or the safety of football, or whether football players

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Speaker 4: suffer traumatic brain injuries or whether this particular individual did.

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Speaker 4: But that was the basis for his being upset, apparently

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Speaker 4: with the NFL, and so he reports. Now the reports

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Speaker 4: have changed on where he got his rifle. He had

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Speaker 4: an AR fifteen, and a lot of us have seen

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Speaker 4: the picture of him holding the AR fifteen down by

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Speaker 4: his leg by the pistol grip as he's literally walking

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Speaker 4: down the street to walk into the building in Manhattan

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Speaker 4: which was the NFL headquarters, among other things. And he's

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Speaker 4: walking down the street and by the way, in that moment,

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Speaker 4: because this has of course fostered lots of calls for

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Speaker 4: gun control, in that moment, was he breaking New York law? Yeah? Absolutely,

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Speaker 4: New York has a so called assault weapon ban, New

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Speaker 4: York has public carry bans, any number of different laws

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Speaker 4: he's violating. So all those laws that New Yorkers say

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Speaker 4: keep them safe, and New York politicians say, keep them safe,

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Speaker 4: did absolutely nothing to prevent a guy from illegally walking

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Speaker 4: down the sidewalk with a rifle, walking into the building

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Speaker 4: there in Manhattan, shot an unarmed security guard, shot a

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Speaker 4: police officer, shot another employee, then went up to the

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Speaker 4: thirty third floor, reportedly shot another person who died, shot

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Speaker 4: an NFL employee apparently who was seriously injured but not killed.

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Speaker 4: So four killed one seriously injured, and then turned the

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Speaker 4: gun on himself as they ought so often do these

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Speaker 4: coward lead mass shooters and died as a consequence. And

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Speaker 4: you knew what was going to happen, especially after the

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Speaker 4: picture of him walking down the street with an ar

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Speaker 4: You knew you were going to hear all the usual

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Speaker 4: calls for gun control, and how many times over the

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Speaker 4: years after a mass shooting or otherwise. Have we seen

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Speaker 4: calls or heard calls for a so called assault weapon

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Speaker 4: ban after a shooting, And that tends to happen, by

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Speaker 4: the way, whether the mass shooting actually involved an AR

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Speaker 4: fifteen rifle or not, or anything that the politicians would

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Speaker 4: group together with the made up political term assault weapon.

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Speaker 4: But another term they love to use is military style

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Speaker 4: assault rifle. And there's a lot of public debate about

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Speaker 4: the use of that term. And of course we're hearing

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Speaker 4: that now. We're hearing this as a result of the

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Speaker 4: New York shooting, as we will anytime there's any kind

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Speaker 4: of a crime committed with an AR fifteen or similar

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Speaker 4: semi automatic platform with a detachable magazine, whether it's an

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Speaker 4: AK forty seven or an AR fifteen, or any number

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Speaker 4: of other similar firearms that bear that commonality of features,

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Speaker 4: which is semi automatic, detachable magazine in traditional rifle calibers.

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Speaker 4: But I wanted to take some time here on the show,

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Speaker 4: and and and as always we wanted to take your

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Speaker 4: questions and comments, So give us a call, join the discussion.

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Speaker 4: Three one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three

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Speaker 4: three one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three

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Speaker 4: because you know, a lot of folks on our side

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Speaker 4: of the gun control debate, when they hear that term

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Speaker 4: military style assault weapon get very very defensive, and they'll

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Speaker 4: and they'll they'll jump into the debate, and they'll say

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Speaker 4: things that are absolutely accurate in defending our right to

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Speaker 4: possess such firearms and the coverage the protection such firearms

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Speaker 4: receive under the Second Amendment, And they will correctly say

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Speaker 4: things like, well, you can't call it a military style

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Speaker 4: rifle because traditionally and historically, certainly in modern military terms,

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Speaker 4: military rifles are invariably select fire or automatic, and of

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Speaker 4: course different militaries across the world use a variety a

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Speaker 4: whole bunch of variety of different firearms, including semi automatic

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Speaker 4: and bold action rifles and semi automatic pistols and any

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Speaker 4: number of others. But in terms of what we think

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Speaker 4: of as the quote unquote military style assault rifle or

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Speaker 4: military style rifle to begin with, that's carried by the

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Speaker 4: world's infantries, for instance, we think of select fire or automatic.

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Speaker 4: So people say it's not military style and get very

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Speaker 4: defensive about that, And I've seen the NRA come out

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Speaker 4: with ads it's not a military style rifle. It's some

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Speaker 4: automatic and there's a dramatic difference. And that's true. There

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Speaker 4: is a very significant difference, no question, not debating that.

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Speaker 4: But I thought i'd take some time on the show

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Speaker 4: here tonight and push back a little bit on the

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Speaker 4: idea of how defensive we should be from a constitutional

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Speaker 4: perspective and a historical perspective on this issue of whether

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Speaker 4: United States private citizens, not members of the military, should

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Speaker 4: be and in fact are legally allowed to carry military

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Speaker 4: style rifles. And I'm sure there are people out there

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Speaker 4: getting nervous right now, and you may see this played

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Speaker 4: back at some point by anti gun people going, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, that nutcase on WYBC is advocating for civilians

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Speaker 4: to carry the weapons the military carries. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 4: blood in the streets. But I want to look at

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Speaker 4: this issue from the perspective of the founders, look at

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Speaker 4: it from the perspective of the Supreme Court decisions we

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Speaker 4: have on the Second Amendment, and raise what I think

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Speaker 4: is a legitimate rhetorical question, which is exactly how defensive

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Speaker 4: we should be on this issue of oh, no, egads,

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Speaker 4: we have military style rifles in our homes in the

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Speaker 4: form of AR fifteens, now again, I don't conceive the

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Speaker 4: argument that these are the same as what modern militaries

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Speaker 4: carry because of the semi automatic versus select fire or

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Speaker 4: automatic distinction. I get that completely, and I've made that

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Speaker 4: point publicly too. But there's another perspective that I don't

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Speaker 4: think we should lose sight of, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: people have, and to me, it's an important one to

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Speaker 4: be true and intellectually honest to what the founders really

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Speaker 4: intended when they wrote the Second Amendment doesn't get enough

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Speaker 4: coverage and discussion. From my perspective, you're curious, you will

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Speaker 4: make a comment, join the discussion three one seven, two,

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Speaker 4: three nine three ninety three Right now at the quarter

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Speaker 4: of hour, we're taking a break, says Guy Ralford on

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Speaker 4: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC, second.

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Speaker 3: To nine on this Second Amendment.

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Speaker 1: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety

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Speaker 1: three WYBC.

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Speaker 4: And welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

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Speaker 4: Show on ninety three WIBC. So, after many of the

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Speaker 4: mass shootings that we've unfortunately seen in this country, where yes,

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Speaker 4: certainly some of them, in fact several have involved sei

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Speaker 4: automatic rifles what the left would call assault weapons, we

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Speaker 4: see these cries for a so called assault weapons ban,

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Speaker 4: and certainly a number of states have passed them. I

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Speaker 4: still expect the Supreme Court to take one of those

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Speaker 4: cases here fairly soon. In fact, we saw when they

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Speaker 4: turned down one of those cases. Just recently we saw

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Speaker 4: I believe it was Justice Kavanaugh that came out and said,

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Speaker 4: we really need to address this issue. I would expect

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Speaker 4: in the next term or so, so the Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: can rule on exactly the issue that I'm discussing tonight.

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Speaker 4: But where we see these calls for a so called

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Speaker 4: assaultpin ban, and when the politicians start waving their hands

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Speaker 4: around saying these weapons of war have no place in

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Speaker 4: private hands, and weapons of war have no place in

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Speaker 4: private homes or on city streets, and we as the

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Speaker 4: gun owning community, and certainly a lot of the firearm

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Speaker 4: ownership advocacy groups. So they're talking about NRA and the

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Speaker 4: Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America, Firearms Policy Coalition,

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Speaker 4: there's some really good ones out that really really good. FPC,

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Speaker 4: Firearms Policy Coalition, and Gun Owners of America have really

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Speaker 4: I think distinguished themselves well, especially in the courtroom here lately.

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Speaker 4: But a lot of times and I've seen ads, for instance,

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Speaker 4: from the NRA on this where they dispute the idea

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Speaker 4: that are commonly owned sei automatic rifles like my AR

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Speaker 4: fifteens and the like are in fact weapons of war

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Speaker 4: or military style rifles. And I get it because to

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Speaker 4: the extent that someone buys that argument, well, if they

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Speaker 4: are weapons of war, then only the military should have them.

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Speaker 4: And if you're not actively fighting a war on behalf

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Speaker 4: of the United States military, then those aren't the kind

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Speaker 4: of firearms that you need. Quote unquote, now whole nother discussion.

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Speaker 4: I may likely delve into this here yet on this show.

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Speaker 4: Don't talk to me about what I need, man whenever.

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Speaker 4: And there's there's so much of this gun control groups. Well,

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Speaker 4: you don't need that to go hunting. Well I'm not

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Speaker 4: talking about hunting. Well, you don't need that for self defense.

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Speaker 4: You don't need a thirty round magazine for something. How

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Speaker 4: do you know what I need. You're somebody who doesn't

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Speaker 4: think guns should even be owned by private citizens. Never

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Speaker 4: take any training, You have no idea what the hell

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Speaker 4: you're doing. You have not studied defensive shootings. He's making

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Speaker 4: some general, rash statement about what you think I need

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Speaker 4: when you know nothing about the subject matter and it's

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Speaker 4: something I've been studying and training in for my entire

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Speaker 4: adult life. I'll decide what I need. I could care

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Speaker 4: less what your opinion is on what I need. And frankly,

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Speaker 4: gun owners can get really bad on this point too.

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Speaker 4: You be on some gun related forum, people start saying,

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Speaker 4: you know, because they choose to not avail themselves of

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Speaker 4: opportunities they have in terms of equipment or cessories or

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Speaker 4: whatever it may be. You don't need to carry a

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Speaker 4: spaar magazine, You don't need a light on your carry pistol. Well,

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Speaker 4: tell me what I need. I'll decide what I need.

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Speaker 4: If you don't think you have a need for that,

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Speaker 4: God bless you man. It's a great country. You get

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Speaker 4: to make those choices. Oh why would you need a

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Speaker 4: spare magazine if you can't handle a threat with your

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Speaker 4: first X number of shots? Your first people say, I

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Speaker 4: carry a five shot revolver because if I can't stop

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Speaker 4: a threat in five shots, then I need to take

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Speaker 4: more training and I need to become a better shot. Well,

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Speaker 4: the best accuracy I've ever even read about in a

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Speaker 4: private defensive situation and the most incredible marksmanship under incredibly

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Speaker 4: trying circumstance I've ever seen, was performed by my friend

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Speaker 4: and client, Eli Dicken in the Greenwood Park Mall on

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Speaker 4: July seventeen, twenty twenty two. We just experienced a three

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Speaker 4: year anniversary of that, and Eli saved countless lives, as

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Speaker 4: I've talked about many times, and I was so incredibly

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Speaker 4: honored to be his attorney and now his friend. And

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Speaker 4: he started shooting from forty three yards away at a

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Speaker 4: guy with a rifle all the way across the opposite

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Speaker 4: end of the Greenwood Park Mall food court, and Eli

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Speaker 4: made eight out of ten shots, two out of four

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Speaker 4: from forty three yards and then six verse six as

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Speaker 4: that engagement continued. Most incredible Marx switch up I've ever seen,

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Speaker 4: and it still took ten shots. Some knucklehead. If you

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Speaker 4: want to carry five shot revolver, God bless you. I

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Speaker 4: don't care what you care. If you deem that sufficient

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Speaker 4: for your purposes, God bless you. I support you. I'll

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Speaker 4: train with you, and I will advocate for you to

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Speaker 4: do exactly what you care to do. I I'll support

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Speaker 4: you one thousand percent, But don't tell me if I

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Speaker 4: carry his spare of magazines, because I don't need that.

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Speaker 4: Just like the politic editions, the anti gun politicians shouldn't

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Speaker 4: be able to tell me how many rounds I need

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Speaker 4: to carry in my rifle, whether I need a semi

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Speaker 4: automatic rifle at all. I'll decide what I need. As

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Speaker 4: She've heard me say many times, and there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of people say out in public, it's not the bill

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Speaker 4: of needs, it's a bill of rights. The metaphor I've used,

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Speaker 4: and I've heard a lot of people repeat this. Whether

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Speaker 4: they got it from me or created it on their own,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but I always say I talk about

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Speaker 4: Rosa Parks and people get all offended that middle aged

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Speaker 4: white guy kind of talk about Rosa Parks. A lot

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Speaker 4: of people get mad really quick. But Rosa Parks had

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Speaker 4: an absolute human right then at the time, protected by

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Speaker 4: the fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, to have

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Speaker 4: equal protection under the law and sit any work, damn place,

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Speaker 4: any damn place that she wanted to sit on that bus.

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Speaker 4: If she chose to sit in the front seat, by God,

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Speaker 4: she had an absolute human right to do so. It

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Speaker 4: was a right. Did she need to sit in the

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Speaker 4: front seat, the front seat in the back seat, are

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Speaker 4: going to the same place you're gonna get to your destination.

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Speaker 4: No price difference. No, she didn't need to sit in

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Speaker 4: the front seat. And who the hell cares. It's completely irrelevant.

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Speaker 4: It's not even worthy of discussion whether she needed to

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Speaker 4: exercise a basic human right bestowed by God but protected

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Speaker 4: by the Constitution. You don't talk about her need to

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Speaker 4: have her basic human rights protected. It was a right.

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Speaker 4: Once it's a right, the discussion of need disappears. That's

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Speaker 4: exactly my point on my basic human right to defend

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Speaker 4: myself and my family, not created by but protected by

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Speaker 4: the United States Constitution. So don't talk to me about

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Speaker 4: me about need. But I also I'm going to address

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Speaker 4: this issue of why we shouldn't, in my mind, be

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Speaker 4: too awfully defensive about these attacks that we get, oh,

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Speaker 4: the weapons of war and a military style assault weapon.

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Speaker 4: There's the political debate, and I get it, But then

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Speaker 4: there's the legal, constitutional, and historical debate, and that can

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Speaker 4: go in a little different direction, and certainly should. I mean,

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Speaker 4: look at the wording of the Second Amendment, a well

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Speaker 4: regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,

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Speaker 4: the right of the people to keep in bare arms

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Speaker 4: shall not be infringed, and a Supreme Court ruled in

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Speaker 4: two thousand and eight in DC versus Heller that the preamble,

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Speaker 4: the opening phrase of the Second Amendment, a well regulated

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Speaker 4: militia being necessary to the security of a free state,

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Speaker 4: does not limit the right of the people. It was

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Speaker 4: somewhat of a discussion of the origin and the motivation

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Speaker 4: to protect individual rights, but was not a limitation on

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Speaker 4: that right. And for the first time, in a five

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Speaker 4: to four decision, the Supreme Court said, no, the Second

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Speaker 4: Amendment and the rights protected by the Second Amendment are

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Speaker 4: not contingent upon are not dependent upon service and a

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Speaker 4: military unit. And that's awesome and that's right, and thank

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Speaker 4: god that the constituency of the Court, by one vote,

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Speaker 4: reached the appropriate decision on that point, because otherwise, if

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Speaker 4: you're not in the National Guard right now, had that

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Speaker 4: decision gone a different way by one vote, second Amendment

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Speaker 4: would offer you no protection whatsoever. People don't understand how

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Speaker 4: close to constitutional catastrophe we really were. But the fact

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Speaker 4: that the opening phrase red militia being necessary to the

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Speaker 4: security of a free state does not create a limitation

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Speaker 4: on the right of the people to keep in bare arms,

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Speaker 4: which is the fundamental ruling that certainly goes beyond that,

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Speaker 4: but it's a fundamental ruling of Heller doesn't deprive ofs

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Speaker 4: of the context of the thinking of the founders when

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Speaker 4: they wrote those words. Because the discussion of a well

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Speaker 4: regulated militia, regulated meaning capable of its doing its job,

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Speaker 4: well armed, well equipped, well trained, well disciplined, like a

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Speaker 4: regulated clock keeps appropriate time. That's the use of the term.

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court ruled on that issue. That's in the Heller

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Speaker 4: decision as well. But why is the discussion of the

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Speaker 4: militia important and why is the militia necessary to the

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Speaker 4: security of a free state. Well, the militia just played

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Speaker 4: a huge part of winning the war for Independence against

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Speaker 4: King George the Second and England. And we saw the militia,

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Speaker 4: that is, citizen soldiers standing right next to the continental

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Speaker 4: Army as we fought the British, and there was a

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Speaker 4: lot of discussion that we did not want a standing army.

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Speaker 4: Having just fought a war against tyranny, we did not

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Speaker 4: want to see it replaced with another tyrannical government supported

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Speaker 4: by and enforced by a standing army. So the discussion

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Speaker 4: was well necessary to the security of a free state.

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Speaker 4: There's two important words, security and free. We need to

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Speaker 4: have citizen soldiers and we need them to be as

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Speaker 4: well regulated, being trained, and equipped as the army. That's

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Speaker 4: not the limit of the right protected by this Second Amendment,

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Speaker 4: but it's the context. And if that's the thinking of

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Speaker 4: the founders. If the Founders wanted me as a private

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Speaker 4: citizen to be as well armed and equipped as a

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Speaker 4: standing army, because they were specifically concerned about a tyrannical

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Speaker 4: government replacing the former tyrannical government and the role that

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Speaker 4: a standing army would play in that process, they wanted

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Speaker 4: me to be able to stand up to the army.

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Speaker 4: There's no historical debate about that. There are people that

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Speaker 4: can bastardize history and twist logic to such a degree

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Speaker 4: to come up with some silly argument, but there's no

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Speaker 4: rational debate on this point. So if the Founders wanted

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Speaker 4: me as a citizen soldier, as a private citizen, to

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Speaker 4: have the ability to stand up to a potentially trannical

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Speaker 4: government with arms equal to that government's army itself, where's

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Speaker 4: the argument to say that, oh, no, a private citizens

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Speaker 4: should not possess quote unquote weapons of war or in

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Speaker 4: modern language, military style assault weapons. I guarantee you the

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Speaker 4: Founders would look at that issue and say, well, of

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Speaker 4: course they could. That's the point. And when some idiot

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Speaker 4: like Joe Biden stands up and says, well, I don't

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Speaker 4: know why you need an AR fifteen. You don't need

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Speaker 4: that to go duck hunting. It's not about ducks, Joe.

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Speaker 4: Where are ducks or deer or whatever hunting game you

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Speaker 4: want to mention in this argument mentioned in the Second Amendment.

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Speaker 4: It's not there. It's not their ash.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 4: Now, there was certainly a desire to protect the right

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Speaker 4: to keep in bare arms so that private citizens could

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Speaker 4: put could put food on the table, make no mistake,

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Speaker 4: and that is certainly part of the right. And that's

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Speaker 4: also discussed in the Heller decision. And we've since by

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Speaker 4: constitutional amendment right here in Indiana protected the right to

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Speaker 4: hunt and trap and fish right here in Indiana. And

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Speaker 4: it's a huge part of the right. I don't minimize that,

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Speaker 4: but that's not part of the historical context, and that's

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Speaker 4: not part of being necessary to the security of a

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Speaker 4: free state that the Founders wrote in a Second Amendment.

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Speaker 4: When Joe Biden says, well, there are limits on how

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Speaker 4: many rounds in your gun you can carry when when

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Speaker 4: you go hunting duck, but there are no limitations on

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Speaker 4: the rounds you can have in your self defense. Right,

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, we need to we do a better

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Speaker 4: job of defending ducks in this country then we do people.

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Speaker 4: And I would look at that, and after rubbing my

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Speaker 4: temples for a while, I'd say, Joe, because the ducks

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Speaker 4: don't shoot back. But that's where we are. But how defense,

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Speaker 4: if should we be on this term? And what did

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court say? And really the first meaningful decision

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Speaker 4: on the Second Amendment in nineteen thirty nine in US

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Speaker 4: versus Miller. This is US versus Jack Miller. You want

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Speaker 4: to jump on wikipedia case involving the National Firearms Act

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Speaker 4: and a sold off shotgun brought against two guys, Frank

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Speaker 4: Layton and Jack Miller. And the issue in that case

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Speaker 4: was the constitutionality of the National Firearms Act, still on

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Speaker 4: the books today, that says you have to have registered

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Speaker 4: and at the time paid your two hundred dollars tax

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Speaker 4: stamp in order to have a short barreled rifle, short

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Speaker 4: barreled pistol, machine gun suppressor, and a couple other regulated

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Speaker 4: categories of firearms. What did the Supreme Court say in

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Speaker 4: US v. Miller. How does that bear on this discussion

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Speaker 4: of how defensive we should be on Oh no, don't

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Speaker 4: call my rifle a military style rifle. We'll get into

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Speaker 4: that when we come back join the discussion. Give us

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Speaker 4: a call. Three one seven, two three nine, ninety three,

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Speaker 4: ninety three, says Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show

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Speaker 4: on ninety three WIBC.

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Speaker 2: The.

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Speaker 1: Show about gun rights, gun safety, and responsible gun ownership.

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Speaker 1: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety

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Speaker 1: three WYPC.

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Speaker 4: Man, welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

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Speaker 4: Show on ninety three WIBC. Before we get back into

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Speaker 4: the constitutional discussion, I was engaged in. We've had Lance

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Speaker 4: call in, I believe with a question. It kind of

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Speaker 4: bears on the issue of ownership of AR fifteen's and

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Speaker 4: the like. But Lance, which got for.

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Speaker 6: Us, Well, I was just wondering, you know, I agree

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Speaker 6: with you completely with the idea that the Second Amendment

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Speaker 6: is we were just overthrow a tyrannical government with citizens

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Speaker 6: carrying firearms, as you should have said, so there should

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Speaker 6: be no reason to apologize for having weapons and citizens'

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Speaker 6: hands that are military style weapons. And I just mentioned

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Speaker 6: that I bought a forced reset trigger because of another

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Speaker 6: thing that shouldn't have been done. Two things in curasure

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Speaker 6: the lawyer you know the dates and stuff better than

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Speaker 6: I will. But the Firearms Act of nineteen thirty whatever

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Speaker 6: it is, after the bank robbers scared everybody, Bodny and

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Speaker 6: Clyde that oh my god, these bank rubbers have machine guns.

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Speaker 6: So they made it with the tax stamp and all that.

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Speaker 6: And then in nineteen I was at eighty when they

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Speaker 6: decided that any fully automatic weapon that was produced after

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Speaker 6: nineteen eighty couldn't be purchased without you know, without you know,

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Speaker 6: all were manufactured, so you have to have a tax stamp,

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Speaker 6: and those guns are gone crazy expensive.

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Speaker 4: Yeap eighty six is the actual win that I went

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Speaker 4: into effect. But yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 6: So anyway, like I said, I bought a force reset trigger,

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Speaker 6: and you know Trump, you know, got bust Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: The ATF was confiscating them and as you know, forcing

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Speaker 6: the company that was selling them, yeah, Triggers. That's where

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Speaker 6: I bought my trigger from. And anyway, the you know,

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Speaker 6: now the at F under the Trump administration you know,

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Speaker 6: mailed all those back to people and told rare Breed

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Speaker 6: they could go ahead and manufacture them. Of course, what

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Speaker 6: I worry about is, you know what about when the

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Speaker 6: next administration comes. Am I going to get a call said, hey, Lance,

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Speaker 6: that trigger you have, we want it back?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, especially since you know they're listening to the gun

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Speaker 4: Guy show and they've just made a no Lance to

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Speaker 4: come to come look you up.

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Speaker 6: Now I didn't say my last name, Well I lost

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Speaker 6: it in a boating accident right after I got.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, let me let me tell you where I

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Speaker 4: think we are on these And by the way, if

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Speaker 4: people don't understand or don't know, that term forced reset

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Speaker 4: trigger really fall in two categories. The original we're developed

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Speaker 4: and certainly primarily commercialized by a company called rare Breed Triggers.

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Speaker 4: That's what it sounds like. It's a it's a trigger

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Speaker 4: mechanism that is designed to go into some of your

433
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 4: my automatic rifle and it does what the name implies,

434
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: which is, as you pull the trigger, so you exert

435
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 4: force on the trigger, you pull that trigger back when

436
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 4: the gun goes off. The mechanism of the operation of

437
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 4: the bolt through the construction of the trigger and the

438
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: design of the trigger forces the trigger forward so as

439
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 4: to reset the trigger. So the trigger does have to

440
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 4: come forward to reset. You don't have to lessen your

441
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 4: pressure on the trigger, the pressure from your finger on

442
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 4: the trigger in order for the trigger to come forward again.

443
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: So if you just maintained a constant rear word pressure

444
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: on the trigger, you just press the trigger to the

445
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 4: rear word and maintain that pressure. The gun will continue

446
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: to shoot because the mechanism of the trigger is forced

447
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: to reset, and you don't need to pull release, pull release,

448
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 4: pull release at the same time. The trigger has to

449
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 4: go through a separate function for each shot, and that's huge.

450
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: It's very important. And by the way, there's another category

451
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 4: of these that result in exactly the same thing happening,

452
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: but a lot of people call them super safeties. I

453
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: have one of these on one of my guns, and

454
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 4: I think personally, in having looked at it, I like

455
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: the design better. It's a simpler design, but it does

456
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 4: the same thing. It just does it a slightly different

457
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 4: way through one particular bar connecting the trigger mechanism to

458
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 4: the action of the gun. And it's got kind of

459
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: a cool push through safety feature like a push button

460
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 4: type safety a little different than the lever safety you

461
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 4: typically see on an AR but operates the same way

462
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 4: and it does the same thing in the sense that

463
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 4: just a constant rear word pressure will make the gun

464
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: continue to shoot. However, the trigger has to reset, meaning

465
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: there's a separate function of the trigger for each shot,

466
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: and that's critically important under what Lance was referring to,

467
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: which is the National Firearms Act in nineteen thirty four,

468
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 4: as the definition of a machine gun is a gun

469
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: where one function of the trigger results in multiple shots. Well,

470
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: it's not one function.

471
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 7: Of the trigger.

472
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 4: If you just press it rear word, it's maybe one

473
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: action of your finger. Doesn't say one function of the finger,

474
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 4: says one function of the trigger. And in fact, in

475
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: the bump stock case, the Cargill versus US went up

476
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: to the US Supreme Court. Supreme Court has ruled on

477
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: this point. It was in the context of bump stocks,

478
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: but it was the same argument that the government then

479
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: was making, different than the government position now out of

480
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 4: the Trump administration. But they were saying, well, pull the

481
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: trigger once and the gun bounces off your shoulder, and

482
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 4: you hold your finger steady, and with one function of

483
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: your finger, you get multiple shots, that's a machine gun.

484
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 4: Supreme Court in the United States says, no, the trigger

485
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 4: still has to be pulled separately for each shot. It's

486
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 4: not one function of the trigger to get multiple shots. Therefore,

487
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: it's a semi automatic, not an automatic. Does not fall

488
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: within the National Firearms at nineteen.

489
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: Thirty four, or.

490
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 4: What we call the the Hughes Amendment to the firearm

491
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 4: Otors Protection Acts in nineteen eighty six that said, as

492
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: Lance mentioned, that you can't register a machine gun that

493
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 4: wasn't imported or manufactured before. I believe it's April of

494
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, which made all bumpstocks illegal because they

495
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: all came along well after nineteen eighty six. So that's

496
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 4: all a done deal. So the settlement that the DOJ

497
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: announced just a few months ago between the DJ and

498
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 4: rare Breed triggers, because they had litigation going on on

499
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 4: this point. The DJ agreed with rare Breed and said,

500
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: you know what, You're right, it takes multiple functions to

501
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 4: the trigger to get multiple shots. This is not a

502
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: machine gun. And after Biden's ATF had seized a bunch

503
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 4: of triggers, the government agreed to send them back. There's

504
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: a little curveball in that whole situation, in that that

505
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: some states have since stepped in and banned force reset triggers.

506
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 4: Indiana is not one of those states, as you wouldn't

507
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 4: expect it to be, but several states attorney general attorney's

508
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 4: general filed a lawsuits saying, well, you can't ship those

509
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: back to residents in our state because they're illegal under

510
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 4: state law, and their dog, I think, went back and

511
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 4: they amended that settlement to say, okay, well we can't

512
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: ship them back into states where they're illegal understate law.

513
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 4: But so we have an agreement from the government that

514
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 4: a forced reset trigger is not a machine gun. We have, yes,

515
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 4: and that that can certainly change with the different administration,

516
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: as Lance says, but that doesn't changed. The Supreme Court's

517
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: ruling in the car Guild case on bump stocks, just

518
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 4: in my mind makes it very clear that a force

519
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: reset trigger is it does not make a gun a

520
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 4: machine gun, which is why I have a super safety

521
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: in one of my SBRs and it works great. It

522
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 4: took a little tweaking, took a little gunsmithing. In fact,

523
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 4: my friends had at Pinnacle Firearms and Carmel helped me

524
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 4: get it run and like it needed to run. But

525
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: it runs like a top now and it's a lot

526
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 4: of fun. I enjoy the hell out of it. And

527
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: it's absolutely legal, and I think it will continue to

528
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: be legal notwithstanding any changes in administration too. I've blonne

529
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 4: pass the three quarter an hour, so it's time to

530
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 4: take a break. We'll be right back and finish up

531
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 4: the first hour of The Gun Guy Show on ninety

532
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: three WIBC.

533
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: Now you've got a gun Guy Guy L three on

534
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: ninety three WYBC.

535
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 4: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

536
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: Show on ninety three WIBC. I've got a bit of

537
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 4: a short segment here, but we're gonna get into a

538
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: nineteen thirty nine decision from the Indiana, excuse the Indiana,

539
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 4: the US Supreme Court on really at the time the

540
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: only meaningful gun control law on the books in nineteen

541
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: thirty nine. That's the National Firearms Act in nineteen thirty four,

542
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 4: and as I mentioned, you know, it severely limited the

543
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 4: ownership of items such as shortbaild rifle, shortbaild shotguns, machine guns, suppressors,

544
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 4: destructive devices, and what are called any other weapons. Won't

545
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: go into all those categories, but it included short bail shotguns.

546
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: Well.

547
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 4: A guy who was reported to be a somewhat infamous

548
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 4: bank robber at the time in the nineteen thirties, guy

549
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 4: named Jack Miller, and allegedly his fellow bank robber, guy

550
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 4: named Frank Layton, got arrested for transporting across state lines

551
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: and possession of a shortbel shotgun. And it goes up

552
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court, and it goes up under pretty

553
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 4: unusual circumstances because Miller and Layton didn't show up. In fact,

554
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: their lawyers didn't even show up. Nobody showed up to

555
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 4: argue the case for the Millers. And I'll go in

556
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 4: after the break to why that was. But in ruling

557
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 4: in favor of the NFA saying it was not unconstitutional,

558
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 4: they discussed specifically the justice is a Supreme Court discussed

559
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 4: whether a short bail shotgun or whether there was evidence

560
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 4: that a short bailed shotgun was useful for military service,

561
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 4: and the answer was no. Therefore they found it was

562
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: not protected by the Second Amendment. How does that bear

563
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 4: on this discussion. It's huge. We'll discuss that in the

564
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 4: second hour. Right now, we're taking a break. This guy

565
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 4: Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

566
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of

567
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: a free state, the right of the people to keep

568
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: in their arms shall not be infringed.

569
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 3: This it's the Second Amendment. And this is the Gun.

570
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: Guy a boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang

571
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: boom boom boom boom a.

572
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: Bang bang bo Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

573
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 4: And welcome back for hour number two The Gun Guy

574
00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 4: Show here in ninety three WIBC. So we're discussing repeted

575
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 4: calls for the banning of so called military style assault weapons.

576
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 4: We've seen renewed calls exactly along those lines after a

577
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 4: very vicious attack in Manhattan in the building that contains

578
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 4: the NFL headquarters there in New York, but several other

579
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: businesses as well. But we saw four people murdered, and

580
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 4: the guy took an ar he reportedly bought from his boss.

581
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 4: He worked at a casino in Las Vegas and bought

582
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 4: both a gun and a car from his boss, then

583
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 4: drove to Manhattan and murdered for four people. He didn't

584
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 4: know he was there to. Supposedly lodged some kind of

585
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 4: a protest against the NFL over traumatic brain injuries. He

586
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: believed playing high school football had caused him to incurb

587
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: CTE or a form of traumatic brain injury, and so

588
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 4: that's what he did, breaking many, many, many laws of

589
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 4: the State of New York in New York City in

590
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 4: the process. And of course those laws did absolutely nothing

591
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 4: to prevent that crime. But on the issue of as

592
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 4: I've been discussing in the first hour, how defensive should

593
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 4: we be as gun owners or as people who own

594
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: guns like the AR fifteen. I own more than one.

595
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 4: There are several different configurations. I have them in different calibers,

596
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 4: some full length barrels, some SBR, some suppress, some not,

597
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 4: some with longer range optics. That it's kind of a

598
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: lego kit for adults. And the optimization of them and

599
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 4: the accessorization of them as one of the many attractions

600
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 4: to the platform. But how defensive should we be on

601
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 4: this military business? Because again I was talking about the

602
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 4: nineteen thirty nine decision from the US Supreme Court us

603
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: Is versus Us versus Miller, and again an interesting run

604
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 4: up to that case, and that Miller and Layton, the

605
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: defendants in that case, were reported the time to be

606
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 4: well known bank robbers, and Miller had just turned state's

607
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: evidence and testified against a bunch of his fellow bank robbers.

608
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 4: And there's been speculation since then and some historical accounting

609
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: saying that the District court judge who actually ruled the

610
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 4: NFA as to short barrel shotguns was unconstitutional, was really

611
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 4: in favor of the gun control law and didn't think

612
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: people should own short barreled shotguns. But he knew that

613
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: Jack Miller, the defendant, primary defendant in the case, had

614
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 4: just turned state's evidence and was going to have to

615
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 4: go on the run and go into hiding immediately after

616
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 4: that case, so that in all likelihood he would not

617
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 4: even show up to the Supreme Court, and the government

618
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 4: would have a free run and its lawyers would be

619
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 4: able to argue unopposed in the US Supreme Court. And

620
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 4: that's exactly what happened. Miller didn't show up, his lawyers

621
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 4: can show up, and in fact, before the decision was

622
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 4: even handed down from the Supreme Court, Miller was found,

623
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 4: as I recall, out in the woods, tied to a tree,

624
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 4: having been murdered. But the decision was from the Supreme Court.

625
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 4: The decision was based on looking at the Second Amendment itself,

626
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 4: and and and the entire Second Amendment, including a well

627
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 4: regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state.

628
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 4: I said, well, a weapon has to have some connection

629
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 4: to being useful in military service, or else it doesn't

630
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 4: fit within the context and the meaning of the Second

631
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 4: Amendment itself to be protected. And they said, there's no

632
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 4: evidence the short barreled shotguns were useful in military service.

633
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 4: Now again, there was no one there providing the argument

634
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: on behalf of Miller. And there are certainly shotguns used

635
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: all the way back in World War One and would

636
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: be again in World War II. We call trench guns,

637
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: which were extremely useful, especially in World War One, and

638
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 4: many of them, yes, were short brown shotguns. But no

639
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 4: one was there to provide that evidence, or make those arguments,

640
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 4: or make sure that the lower courts record was full

641
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 4: of that evidence to begin with. But the issue was

642
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: short broil shotguns being not useful for the military, aren't

643
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 4: protected by the Second Amendment? Doesn't it completely then turn

644
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: that ruling on its head, People will argue, or at

645
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 4: least it's ignoring that ruling from the Supreme Court. When

646
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 4: people argue, well, these are military style weapons, that is

647
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 4: the AR fifteen of the like or the AK forty seven.

648
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 4: It need to be taken out of civilian hands. They're

649
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 4: not protected by the Second Amendment, and they shouldn't be.

650
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 4: They should only be in the hands of our military.

651
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 4: How do you get there? And unfortunately, for all the

652
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 4: great things that the Heller decision did in two thousand

653
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 4: and eight, and again, had Heller not gone the way

654
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 4: it did on the foundational issues of do you have

655
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: to be in a militia do you have to be

656
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: in the National Guard today to be protected by the

657
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 4: Second Amendment at all? To have any rights protected by

658
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 4: the Second Amendment? That's where Heller really it was so critical.

659
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 4: I mean, it was night and day how bad things

660
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: and how opposite things would be today. I fell had

661
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: gone the other way. So we owe Justice Scalia a

662
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: huge debt of gratitude for that, as well as the

663
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: other justices that voted with him in a five to

664
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 4: four decision. But there's a quote in the Heller decision

665
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 4: that I've never been able to understand, because you know,

666
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court justices obviously most of them here recently,

667
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 4: we certainly think gifts option or two to this but

668
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 4: most of these people are brilliant, brilliant people, and most

669
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 4: of them have really really, really smart people that they've

670
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 4: employed as law clerks that do research and help him

671
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 4: do the writing and make sure that what they're writing

672
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 4: is either consistent with prior Supreme Court precedent or there's

673
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 4: a logical argument for why they're changing that precedent. And

674
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 4: what nobody can explain to me, and what doesn't make

675
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 4: sense from the opinion itself, is why Justice Scalia chose

676
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 4: to include one particular phrase in the Heller decision because

677
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 4: he's talking about because and what Heller was about. The

678
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 4: context in terms of the firearms and discussion were handguns

679
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 4: DC had the District of Columbia had what was essentially

680
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 4: a complete ban on handguns because in order to possess

681
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 4: a firearm of any kind in DC, you had to

682
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 4: have a license from the District of Columbia, and they

683
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 4: didn't issue licenses on handguns, so you could know own

684
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 4: a handgun. It was a de facto band. Then they

685
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 4: also said whatever firearms you did have in your house

686
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 4: had to be disassembled or locked up and inaccessible. And

687
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 4: Supreme Court said, well as to handguns, which are commonly

688
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 4: used for lawful purposes in the US, and that was

689
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 4: the test they laid out commonly used for lawful purposes.

690
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: Since handguns certainly call follow within that category, handguns are protected.

691
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: But in saying that handguns are protected, Justice Scalia has

692
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 4: this line. He says, now we're not talking about other

693
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 4: longstanding prohibitions. And he talked about how there were certain

694
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 4: classifications of people like felons and the dangerously mentally ill

695
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 4: that can still be prohibited. And then he said and

696
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 4: that some weapons, including weapons most useful for military service.

697
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: He says, the M sixteen of the like may be banned. Now,

698
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: that wasn't necessary, that phrase, that sentence wasn't necessary to

699
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 4: the decision. So a lot of lawyers would call that

700
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: what we call dicta the icta. What's dicta dicta is

701
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 4: a commentary from a court in a controlling opinion that

702
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 4: isn't necessary to the outcome of the case. It's providing context,

703
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 4: it's providing background. But there's an argument to say it's

704
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 4: not really part of the decision itself. It's not part

705
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 4: of the precedent that that case sets that must be

706
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 4: followed by other courts. But a lot of lower courts

707
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: and in those circuit courts of appeal that have interpreted

708
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: Heller since the decision came down in two thousand and eight,

709
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 4: a lot of them have said, well, an AR fifteen

710
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 4: is like an M sixteen. Hell, it looks identical, right,

711
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 4: The only difference is one semi automatic one's autom but

712
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 4: it's still like an M sixteen. And so since the

713
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 4: Heller decision says we can ban those firearms most useful

714
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 4: for military service, we can ban the M sixteen and

715
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 4: the like. And if an AR fifteen is like an

716
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 4: M sixteen, then boom, we can ban them. And we've

717
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: seen the Seventh Circuit, which Indiana is part of. Again,

718
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 4: we don't have to worry about the Indiana General Assembly

719
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 4: ban banning AAR fifteen's any time soon, but if they did,

720
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 4: the Seventh Circuit would uphold it today unless the Supreme

721
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 4: Court turns that around. And we've seen several other circuits

722
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 4: come out and use this M sixteen like. But but

723
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: what will be perpetually confusing to me, it makes no

724
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 4: sense to me, is the Miller case is still authority,

725
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: it's still precedent, and they talk about a firearm is

726
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 4: not even protected by the Second Amendment if it's not

727
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 4: useful for a military service, like a short barreled shotgun

728
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 4: supposedly is not. And then just as school Leah, who

729
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 4: I have unlimited respect for, I wish he was still

730
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 4: with us. I hate that he tragically died while on

731
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court, and the hell Are decision, for the

732
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: most part, is fabulous.

733
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 6: But this.

734
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 4: Firearms most useful for military service. The M sixteen them

735
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 4: the like turns Miller on its head. You can't get

736
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 4: there from here. And I think that's fundamentally wrong. And

737
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 4: maybe that's today why people feel the need to apologize

738
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 4: and back up and argue when people say, well, these

739
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 4: are military style weapons that ought to be banned out

740
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 4: to be out of civili en hands. Oh hell no.

741
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 4: The founders of this country and the Supreme Court understood

742
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirty nine. These are exactly the kind of

743
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 4: weapons our founders wanted us to have, yes, because they're

744
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 4: necessary to the security of a free state. And I will,

745
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 4: I think, be intellectually honest and historically accurate in arguing

746
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 4: that I'm not too apologetic about what label you want

747
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 4: to put on my rifle. It's a rifle. The founders

748
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 4: of this great country wanted us to have and that

749
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 4: we're going to take a break. I'm gonna switch gears.

750
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 4: Go to the phone lines. If we've got anybody on there,

751
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 4: I think we have at least one caller on there.

752
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 4: Give us a call, Join the discussion. Three one seven

753
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 4: two three nine ninety three ninety three. That's three one

754
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 4: seven two three nine ninety three ninety three. This is

755
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 4: Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

756
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: Second to none on this second amendment.

757
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety

758
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: three WYBC.

759
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: Hey, welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

760
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 4: Show on ninety three WIBC. Tim, let's go to the

761
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 4: phone lines. We've had some people call in and Tim

762
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 4: is called Tim. Welcome to the Gun Guy Show. How

763
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 4: you doing good, Budd? Are you doing all right?

764
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 8: Yep?

765
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 7: Doing great.

766
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 8: I'm got a couple questions.

767
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 6: Where do you go shoot?

768
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 8: Besides you said you were going to go shoot some

769
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 8: clay pigeons, where you're going to go shoot your AR fifteen?

770
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: So well as a great question, I'll tell you what.

771
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: As far as indoor ranges around Indy and listen, I've

772
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 4: got a relationship with these people, So take this for

773
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 4: what it's worth because I've been teaching there for a

774
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 4: long time. But at Indie Arms, they've got my favorite

775
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: indoor range that I've ever shot at. It's really incredibly

776
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 4: well lit and very important for an indoor range.

777
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 8: It's what about for distance?

778
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: For distance, you know what. I've been looking at Indiana

779
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 4: Ordnance Innovations and they're out in Brookville or out in

780
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: that area, and they've got I think up to thirteen

781
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 4: hundred yards now it requires a membership. But then there's

782
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 4: bass and bucks up in Wabash. I've been up there

783
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 4: where you can get some distance, and then I've been

784
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 4: up to Long's No Young's long Shot, which is also

785
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 4: way up north. It's kind of like go to Fort

786
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 4: Wayne and turn left, but you can get out to

787
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 4: one thousand yards. I took my three hundred win back

788
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 4: up there and love shooting way long distance there out

789
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: to a thousand long I got.

790
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 8: So yeah, well, well, and I just recently obtained a

791
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 8: Daniel defense by by six.

792
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, well, I mean five five six. It

793
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 4: depends what you're training for, right, I mean, if you've

794
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 4: just got a red dot like a lot of us,

795
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 4: do I mean I have different ars.

796
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 8: No, I'm hunting.

797
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, well you can still you can still get

798
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: zero out at twenty five yards, but no, I'd want

799
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 4: to find something longer than that. I believe Adderbury. Somebody

800
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 4: calling or message me on the YouTube feed and tell

801
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 4: me if this is wrong. I think you can still

802
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 4: get out to one hundred yards down at Adderbury and listen,

803
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 4: a lot of hunters are going to take shots obviously

804
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 4: longer than one hundred yards, but depending on what they're hunting,

805
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 4: of course. But it doesn't mean you can't get a

806
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 4: good zero and understand exactly what your trajectories are, assuming

807
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 4: you know about the ballistics of the rounds that you're shooting,

808
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 4: giving the rifle that you're using. Go back to the

809
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 4: phone lines and Zach is called Zach. Welcome to the

810
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 4: gun Guy Show.

811
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 9: Hey guy, I hope you're having a good day so far.

812
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 4: You too, brother, I appreciate it.

813
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, so I reload. It's a great hobby if anyone

814
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 9: who does, as you're curious about it and should totally

815
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 9: get into it. I just wanted your thoughts on Harry

816
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 9: handloaded self defense damndition, you know, and in my case a.

817
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 4: Dim elevad or you know so, yeah, and I'm and

818
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I don't know if you were breaking up

819
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 4: a little bit, Zach, but I was having trouble understanding

820
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 4: you my thoughts on what exactly would you mind repeating that.

821
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 9: I'm sorry, carrying handloaded.

822
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 4: Oh, for defensive purposes and yes, sir, oh you know this,

823
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 4: Zach is such a good question. And I've had that

824
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 4: question many times, and a lot of people say, uh,

825
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 4: you know, you should only carry factory AMO. And then

826
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 4: there's kind of a favorite uh line on the internet

827
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 4: that you see where people say, oh, I only carry

828
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 4: what my local police department carries, uh in terms of

829
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 4: factory AMMO, but specifically, should you not carry your own

830
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 4: handloaded AMMO. Listen. The the only hesitancy I would have

831
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: at all about doing that is is just reliability. And

832
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 4: it sounds like you've been doing it a while and

833
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 4: I'm sure you know exactly what you're doing. And if

834
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 4: you're confident in the reliability of your AMMO, I mean,

835
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 4: you know, they're You've heard a lot of people say

836
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 4: uh that have been in real gunfights, which I have not,

837
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 4: But people will say there's there's no louder sound you'll

838
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 4: ever hear than a click when you were expecting a boom.

839
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 4: But hey, uh, if you're you know, you know what

840
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 4: your components do, You're using quality components. You know what

841
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 4: you're doing in the reloading process. That and that's if

842
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 4: that's not a concern to you. And you're also able

843
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 4: to use self defense style bullets. People certainly do a

844
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 4: handload and reload using jacketed hollow points, which I would

845
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 4: always recommend for defensive purposes. Hey, if you're comfortable in

846
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 4: those rounds, I don't know, and i'd defend self defense

847
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 4: cases for a living. I have never seen anywhere a

848
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 4: case where a legal justified shoot, that is, someone met

849
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 4: the prerequisite for self defense. In Indiana, it would be

850
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 4: out in public, you had a reasonable belief that the

851
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 4: use of deadly force was necessary to prevent serious bodily

852
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 4: injury to you or a third person, or the commission

853
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 4: of a forcible felony. I've never seen a case un

854
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 4: or whatever definition was being employed, even in other states

855
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 4: where a prosecutor was able to successfully argue, well, yeah,

856
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 4: this would have been the justified use of force and

857
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 4: self defense, but they used reloaded AMMO. And so it's

858
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 4: not what how does that change anything? I mean, if

859
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 4: if you're justified in using deadly force, then you can

860
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 4: use deadly force. And that means you can shoot them

861
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 4: with factory am O, you can shoot them with reloaded AMO,

862
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 4: you can shoot them with ball AMO, you can shoot

863
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 4: them with hollow points, or you can hit them over

864
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 4: the head of a bowling ball. Deadly force is deadly force.

865
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 4: And and I'll tell you and I don't engage in

866
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 4: a lot of internet debates on social media debates because

867
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 4: there are complete waste of time. But you know, there

868
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 4: are a lot of commentators out there, and Messada you

869
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 4: has written articles on this may even be in his book.

870
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 4: It's been a while since I've read it. Now I

871
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 4: want to say that it is is he even talks

872
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 4: about accessorizing your gun. Oh well, you know, if you

873
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 4: put a lighter trigger in your gun, well, then a

874
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 4: prosecutor is going to use that against you. Or if

875
00:53:54,920 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 4: you have a red dot or you know, whatever it

876
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 4: might be, then that's going to be used against you.

877
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 4: And listen. And I have a lot of respect from

878
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 4: massaut Iu and others. I've seen articles in organization that

879
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 4: I'm a member of and I respect us Concealed Carry

880
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 4: Association said similar things. You know you put a lighter trick.

881
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: What's a hair trigger?

882
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 4: You're you're putting a hair trigger in your gun? So

883
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 4: that that indicates intent? I see that all the time

884
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 4: out on social media. That indicates intent. Hold on intent.

885
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 4: If somebody kicks my door in in the middle of

886
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 4: the night and he comes in with his short barreled

887
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 4: shock then with a note in his back pocket that

888
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 4: said murdered guy and steal all guy's stuff, and I

889
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 4: put my handge at the middle of his chest and

890
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 4: pull the trigger three times? Did I intentionally, at that

891
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 4: point shoot him with deadly force? Is there a very

892
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 4: probable outcome that me shooting him in the chest would

893
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 4: cause his death? Of course it is. Did I intend

894
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 4: to do that? Yes? I intended to stop the threat.

895
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 4: I intended to prevent him from coming in and hurting

896
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 4: me and my family. I intended to prevent an unlawful

897
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 4: entry into my dwelling, which is a separate justification under

898
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 4: the self defense statute. Of course I intended it. I

899
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: pointed the gun at him and pulled the trigger. What

900
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 4: do you mean it has to do with intent? The

901
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 4: issue is not whether I intended it. If I'm justified,

902
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 4: I can intend it all day long. And I've had

903
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 4: I don't countless number of cases involving guns where somebody

904
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 4: pulled a trigger. I don't remember a prosecutor ever even

905
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 4: mentioning evidence, assuming the police either even gathered the evidence

906
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 4: of having measured the trigger pull and said, oh, well,

907
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 4: that's only got a three and a half pound trigger

908
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 4: in it, so it's an aftermarket trigger, where that gun

909
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 4: from the factory comes with five and a half. Well,

910
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 4: it's a lighter trigger. Therefore they must not be justified.

911
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 4: What the legal argument makes no sense to me. And

912
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 4: I tend to think that this is a way to

913
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 4: sell articles because it's a way for people to go ooh.

914
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 4: And there's this favorite phrase people use out there, the

915
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 4: aggressive liberal prosecutor or. You know a lot of times

916
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 4: people in other states say da, which, we don't have

917
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 4: district district attorneys in Indiana. We have prosecutors and deputy

918
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 4: prosecutors at least in every jurisdiction I've been in, which

919
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 4: is pretty much all of them. Well that you know,

920
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 4: the aggressive liberal prosecutor will use that to get well,

921
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 4: it doesn't change the law. I did have a deputy

922
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 4: prosecutor one time say to me, well, you know, we're

923
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 4: you know, and this is in a case it has

924
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 4: been charged and it was in my mind clearly self defense.

925
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 4: So we ended up establishing that and ended up getting

926
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 4: all the serious charges dismissed. But at one point I

927
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: have a deputy prosecutor said, well, if this goes to trial,

928
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 4: I just really don't think the jury's going to like

929
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 4: the fact that your guy used an AR fifteen, and

930
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 4: I the jury's really going to be swayed by that.

931
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 4: And at the time, this is a while ago, where

932
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 4: I had actually had a book of the US statutes

933
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 4: and actual book form hard copy, and I pulled it out.

934
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,479
Speaker 4: I turned to the Indiana Self Defense Statute article where

935
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 4: section Indiana Code, section thirty five forty one DESH three

936
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 4: DISH two I talked about all the time here on

937
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 4: the show. And I handed him the Self Defense Code

938
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 4: and I said, please turn to the section in here

939
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 4: where it talks about a separate standard for the use

940
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 4: of really really deadly force. And he looked at me, like,

941
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 4: what are you talking about. I said, well, no, you're

942
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 4: saying my guy used an AR fifteen and that that

943
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 4: was somehow more gun than he should have used. So

944
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 4: there must be a different standard for the use of

945
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 4: really really deadly force. He could have used deadly force,

946
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 4: could have shot the guy with a with a handgun,

947
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 4: or I suppose the way a lot of people think,

948
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 4: you know, instead of a five to five to six round,

949
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 4: which is a medium caliber gun, and people talking about

950
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 4: a high velocity, a high powered rifle, it's not the

951
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 4: one caller talked about hunting with five five six, Well,

952
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 4: five five six isn't even legal to hunt most places.

953
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 4: And I'm not a hunter, and I'm not an expert

954
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 4: on the DNR regulations, but the reason five five six

955
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 4: isn't even legal in most places to hunt deer is

956
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 4: because it's not lethal enough and you can't humanely ethically

957
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 4: predict a clean kill. But the way a lot of

958
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 4: people think you could pick up your your three hundred

959
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 4: wind mag or your threeho eight or your thirty odd

960
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 4: six hunting rifle and shoot a bad guy with that,

961
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 4: well that's okay, that's a hunting rifle, but you're super

962
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 4: lethal deadly ar fifteen. Well that's too much gun, which

963
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 4: makes no sense from a bilistic standpoint. From a lethality standpoint,

964
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 4: it makes no sense at all. But I said, show

965
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 4: me the different standard it's required for the use of

966
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 4: really really deadly force. He said, well, there's no separate standard. Well, no,

967
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 4: there's not, is there. You either justified in using deadly

968
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 4: force or you're not. And if you are, the method

969
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 4: you use to employ deadly force makes no sense. Now,

970
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 4: I will say this about like Triggers were talking about modifications.

971
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 4: If you accidentally discharge your gun, you have a negligent

972
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 4: discharge and ND as we call them, and a lot

973
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 4: of us have stopped using the term altogether. I don't know,

974
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 4: fifteen plus years ago, I stopped using the term accidental discharge,

975
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 4: which actually is germane to a topic I'm going to

976
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 4: bring up earlier on the show if we have time

977
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 4: about the said P. Three twenty. But if you have

978
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 4: a negligent discharge, your gun goes off when you did

979
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 4: not intend for it to go off, when you had

980
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 4: your finger on the trigger but you didn't mean to

981
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 4: pull the trigger, and somebody gets hurt and you're charged

982
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 4: with a crime like criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon.

983
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 4: Does the fact that would the fact that you put

984
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 4: a lighter trigger in that gun that arguably led to

985
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: your negligent discharge when the gun went off when you

986
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 4: did not intend it to, because the trigger took two

987
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 4: pounds or three pounds less pressure for that gun to

988
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 4: go off than if you'd left it alone. Would that

989
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 4: modification come back to haunt you? Yes, yes it could,

990
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 4: Yes it could, but that's not what we're talking about here.

991
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 4: And when most people say, don't ever accessorize, or going

992
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,439
Speaker 4: back to the caller's question, you know, if you load

993
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 4: to plus P pressures, which is higher velocity depending on

994
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 4: the particular ammunition, the particular projectiles you're using going to

995
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 4: be a bit more lethal or at least cause more

996
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 4: penetration or more expansion, again, all depending on what kind

997
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 4: of ammunition you're putting together. Could somebody say, well, you

998
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: loaded super lethal ammo with your plus P pressures or

999
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,919
Speaker 4: plus P plus which is even higher with a hollow

1000
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 4: point bullet. So you're some mercenary thinking, you know, ultra

1001
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 4: violent person who loaded this ultra dangerous ammo. Could a

1002
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 4: prosecutor make that argument? Sure, a prosecutor could make that argument.

1003
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 4: Do I think it goes anywhere? No? Do I think

1004
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 4: any competent lawyer, self defense lawyer, criminal defense attorney. Could

1005
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 4: they say, ladies and gentlemen, the jury, assuming he even

1006
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 4: gets that far, question is about whether deadly force is

1007
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 4: justified here or not, and if it is, there's no

1008
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 4: such thing as really really deadly force. It's all about

1009
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 4: what was justified on the front end. So it's a

1010
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 4: much longer answer to the question that we had just

1011
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 4: it was just about AMO. But I think it's an

1012
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 4: interesting question, and it's one that comes up a lot

1013
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 4: in discussions and certainly something I've had as well. I'll

1014
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 4: tell you what, We're past the bottom of the hour,

1015
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 4: so it's definitely time to take a break. We'll come back.

1016
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 4: We'll talk a little bit about the sig P three twenty.

1017
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 4: I am not so proud anymore owner of two P

1018
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 4: three twenties. I've taken one of them, I've carried one

1019
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 4: a lot, and I've taken another one through multiple training courses.

1020
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 4: They've been fabulous guns for me. What's going on with

1021
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 4: those guns? What's the consensus on where that issue is

1022
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 4: going from here? That is, will this gun discharge when

1023
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 4: you do not pull the trigger? That's a big deal.

1024
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 4: I've been very very reluctant to buy into the anti

1025
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 4: SIG arguments on this point. Very very reluctant. But I

1026
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 4: think I'm about there and I'll expla and why when

1027
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 4: we come back. Also, go to the phone lines three

1028
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 4: one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three three

1029
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 4: one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three, give

1030
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 4: us a call. Is this Guy Ralford on The Gun

1031
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 4: Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

1032
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: Second to none on this second amendment?

1033
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety

1034
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: three WYPC.

1035
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, welcome back. This is Guy Ralford on The Gun

1036
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 4: Guy Show on ninety three wibc's going back to the

1037
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 4: phone lines, and Jerry has called in, I think with

1038
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,479
Speaker 4: a comment. Jerry, Welcome to the Gun Guy Show.

1039
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 7: Hello.

1040
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 5: I had a comment about assault weapons.

1041
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 9: Uh, you were talking about earlier.

1042
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 5: When I hear politicians say that we need to ban

1043
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 5: assault weapons and they're talking about the AR fifteen. To me,

1044
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 5: an assault weapon is an automatic weapon. I hope that

1045
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 5: our military is sending our soldiers into battle with this

1046
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 5: semi automatic AR fifteen.

1047
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 7: They're not.

1048
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 5: They're using an assault weapon.

1049
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, you're You're right, Jerry, And I made that point.

1050
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 4: And it's a valid distinction. But the discussion I had

1051
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 4: earlier is that I don't think we should be too

1052
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 4: apologetic about what we call them. And even if they're

1053
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 4: described as so called military style rifles, I agree with you,

1054
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 4: they're fundamentally different. An assault weapon is to me, a

1055
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 4: politically made up term just trying to demonize the most

1056
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 4: popular rifles in America. But I don't think we use

1057
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 4: the gun owners and owners of ar fifteens and aks

1058
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 4: and the like. I don't think we should be just

1059
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 4: too defensive about that, given the origins of the Second Amendment,

1060
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 4: which is what I went through earlier in the show.

1061
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 4: So I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, and I

1062
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 4: think there's a huge distinction, and the Supreme Court and

1063
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 4: the Cargo based on bump stocks specifically recognized the important

1064
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 4: mechanical distinction between semi automatic and automatic, and that was

1065
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 4: in the context of the NFA regulating machine guns. But

1066
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 4: I agree with you, I just don't think that I

1067
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 4: that I personally don't choose. I don't feel the need

1068
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 4: to choose to be too defensive about that when I

1069
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 4: think the founders wanted me to have equal weaponry to

1070
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 4: the government military to begin with, And that was a

1071
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 4: long discussion I had at the beginning of the show.

1072
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 4: Let's go to Felix. Felix, welcome to the Gun Guy Show. Well, yes, sir,

1073
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:37,919
Speaker 4: which cut for us?

1074
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, I can't defend myself. I can't buy a gun

1075
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 10: because all the guns I looked at it in the arms.

1076
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 10: For example, I can't pull the trigger. I'm eighty years old.

1077
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 10: My finger is not strong enough to pull a trigger.

1078
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 10: Is there a gun that's really easy to pull the trigger,

1079
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 10: like a toy gun that I can defend myself with?

1080
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are certainly guns with lighter trigger polls. I

1081
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 4: mean that a standard self defense gun Felix is going

1082
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 4: to have a trigger poll around five and a half

1083
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 4: pounds or so. I mean, you want to stay away

1084
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 4: from the big double action revolvers or double action semi

1085
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 4: automatics because one pole a trigger has to both cock

1086
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 4: the hammer and release the hammer, and that can be very,

1087
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 4: very difficult and for a lot of people, especially that

1088
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 4: have diminished hand strength. But you can also look at

1089
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 4: modifications to lighten the trigger even after market, and I've

1090
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,919
Speaker 4: shot guns that had all the way down to three

1091
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 4: pound triggers or so now there's a very important safety

1092
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 4: consideration as part of that, and you have to balance

1093
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 4: that and the rules of gun safety ought to be

1094
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 4: adequate to protect us in this, which is we're not

1095
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 4: going to point the gun at anything we're not willing

1096
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 4: to shoot. We're going to keep our finger completely off

1097
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 4: the trigger until we're on target and ready to engage,

1098
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 4: those being the primary ones involved. But the lighter the

1099
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 4: trigger is that more likely you are to have an

1100
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 4: accidental discharge or negligent discharge of it, as I was

1101
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 4: just describing, which you have to balance. But you can

1102
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 4: certainly find guns with much lighter triggers, and you can

1103
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 4: have aftermarket modifications made to lighten the trigger. Just where

1104
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 4: we have to be really, really, really really careful about

1105
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 4: following the rules of gun safety, particularly keeping anything and everything,

1106
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 4: including our fingers away from the trigger until we're actually

1107
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 4: on target ready to fire, especially when you've got a

1108
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 4: very very light trigger, what some people will call a

1109
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 4: hair trigger. Let's go one more phone call here before

1110
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 4: we take a break and go to Jay. Jay, Welcome

1111
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 4: to the Gun Guy Show.

1112
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 7: Hi got how you doing good?

1113
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: Jay?

1114
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 7: You're doing all right doing so pray. I just got

1115
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 7: a quick question. I live in a rural address. I

1116
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 7: live about three hundred yards off the road. This happens

1117
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 7: a lot. I go through some phrase like and I

1118
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 7: live up on a hill. But I see people at

1119
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 7: twelve one o'clock to driving up my driveway stop maybe midway,

1120
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 7: because I have two signs saying no trespassing. I've even

1121
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 7: had him coming even closer than that. Would I get

1122
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 7: in trouble if I just walked out there, if I

1123
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 7: had a gun, I got multiple guns, But say like

1124
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 7: an MPX or something.

1125
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll tell you the problem is. And I've defended,

1126
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 4: in fact, I'm defending cases right along these lines right now, Jay,

1127
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 4: where when you have the gun and the person can

1128
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 4: see the gun, then if they call police and say

1129
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 4: this guy was threatening me with a gun, then the

1130
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 4: cops always going to ask him, well, did he point

1131
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 4: the gun at you? And the history of police officers

1132
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 4: asking anybody who's called and said, oh my god, this

1133
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 4: crazy guy was threatening me with a gun. And the

1134
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 4: history of the question did he pointed at you? I

1135
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 4: would guess somewhere around ninety eight point five percent was

1136
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 4: oh yeah, oh my god, he pointed it. Whether you

1137
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 4: did or you didn't, that's just a natural, I think

1138
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 4: human response and where people want to escalate or people

1139
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 4: want to exaggerate what actually happened to put you in

1140
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 4: a worse light. Now you potentially got criminal charges for

1141
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 4: pointing a firearm because you're not justified in pointing your

1142
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 4: gun at someone who's simply trespassing. And a lot of

1143
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 4: people don't like hearing that, and they think I'm trying

1144
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 4: to rationalize and justify the way the law exists on

1145
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 4: that point.

1146
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 6: I'm not.

1147
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 4: I'm just telling you what the law already is. So

1148
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 4: if it were me and somebody was there, I would

1149
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 4: be prepared to defend myself and my family and my

1150
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 4: home from within my home. I would not go out

1151
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 4: and confront them. And if I did, I wouldn't have

1152
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 4: a gun visible on me because the downsides are just

1153
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 4: too great now. If they're really there for nefarious purposes,

1154
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 4: they're there to break in. It's a home invasion. There's

1155
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 4: six of them in there there arm or where would

1156
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 4: you rather be? Would you rather be out in your

1157
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 4: driveway standing there with you know, with a gun at

1158
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 4: your side, or you know, in a holster on your hip,

1159
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 4: or would you rather be in your house from a

1160
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 4: defensible position with cover that'll stop a bullet, with a

1161
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 4: phone available to call nine point one if things really

1162
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 4: go south. You know, that's an obvious answer to me,

1163
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 4: So I would not recommend going out and confronting them

1164
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 4: with a gun. That's frustrating to people. A lot of

1165
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 4: people think, well, hell, that's one of the reasons I

1166
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 4: have guns, so I can keep potentially threatening people away

1167
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 4: from my family and my home. But that's using a

1168
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 4: gun to blove, for to intimidate, and that's what gets

1169
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 4: us in trouble more often than not, as opposed to

1170
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 4: you using it as a tool of last resort when

1171
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,959
Speaker 4: you're live for another innocent light life or your family's

1172
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 4: safety is involved fundamentally different issues. So it's a little

1173
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 4: more conservative than most people want to hear. Jay, But

1174
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,759
Speaker 4: that's what I've seen unfold and based on my experience,

1175
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 4: that's my answer. Let's go ahead and take a break.

1176
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 4: We'll come back for what's going to be a short

1177
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 4: section to conclude this week's Gun Guys Show, but I'll

1178
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 4: mention kind of where I am on the p three

1179
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 4: twenty here in the closing segment. Thanks so much to

1180
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 4: our callers. Will be right back this Guy Ralford on

1181
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 4: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

1182
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: Now you've got a gun guy, Guy Ralford on ninety

1183
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: three WYPC.

1184
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 4: And welcome back. We've only got about a minute, but

1185
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 4: I'll go into more on this in later shows. But

1186
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 4: on the issue with a SIG P three twenty, I've

1187
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 4: been a number of reports from across the country and

1188
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 4: now a couple of juries. I've ruled against SIG saying

1189
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 4: that the P three twenty is capable of firing without

1190
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 4: the trigger being polled. And I got to tell you

1191
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 4: I own two three twenties. I've trained with both of them.

1192
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 4: I set up one as a suppressor host with a

1193
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 4: thread of barrel. I took the other one to last

1194
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 4: time I went to gun site and it ran great.

1195
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 4: And I've always trusted those guns. But the reports are

1196
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 4: getting to two consistent and two numerals and I'm taking

1197
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 4: mine out of commission. I'm not going to carry him anymore.

1198
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 4: And I'll go into this on more in more detail

1199
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 4: on future shows. Right now, that's it for this week.

1200
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 4: We hope you enjoyed it, hope you come back. This

1201
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 4: is Guy Ralford. I'm a Gun Guy show on a

1202
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 4: free to pibacy