1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: He's a close political ally of the governor. He was 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: accused of impropriety. The story went away and now it's 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: back in at allten Us Kennel a Casey show. I'm 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Rob Casey's here joined in studio our old Pally's the 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: former State Police superintendent. 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: Doug Carter joins us. 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: Now, Doug, hello, morning to you. 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: All right, So you are not the person we were 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: talking about there. We're talking about Tom klein Helter. You 10 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: joined us what this has been about a month ago 11 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: now and laid out how when you were the state 12 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Police Superintendent, Tom klein Helter is the sheriff of du 13 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: Bois County. You were overseeing or helping oversee an investigation 14 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: that produced an eighty page probable cause affidavit alleging impropriety 15 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: related to monies being spent out of the commissary related 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: to trips for Clin Helter and his wife. 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: Do I have that correct? Okay? Very good? And there 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: was a special prosecutor involved. 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: You felt like everything was going well, that you had 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: put one of your best men, Jeff Hearing, in charge 21 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: of that thirty five plus years at the Indiana State Police, 22 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: you felt like you guys had I think we'd used 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: the term sort of an ironclad case that had been 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: built there, and then all of a sudden new year, 25 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: Braun becomes governor, you're no longer state superintendent, and magically 26 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: the charges just don't get filed. 27 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 3: Yes, essentially, that's correct. 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: Okay, So you came on, talked about the concerns with that. 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: We did a whole hour on it. That was just 30 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: really great the way you had laid all that out. 31 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: And so now the news across the state, which is good, 32 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: caught onto this story and many people are starting to cover. 33 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: Are you surprised at how the media caught onto this 34 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: story after your interview? 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 3: No, I'm not, and it just shows the breadth of 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: your reach, quite honestly, because that was the first step 37 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: of it. 38 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: So we add the Capitol Chronicle on Casey Smith did 39 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: a big article about it, and one of the things 40 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: that they did is Capitol Chronicle always does they talk 41 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: to everybody, including the special prosecutor herself, Holly Huddleson, who 42 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: is from Orange County, which is a neighboring county. Now, 43 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: to reset this in twenty four when you guys were 44 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: doing this investigation, did anybody give you any hint, Hey, 45 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: she's having reservations, she's got concerns about this eighty page 46 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: powerbable cause, Affidavid, Did anybody lay out anything to you 47 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: at the time of Hey, something seems a misshere. 48 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: From her side or her office? Oh? 49 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely not quite the contrary rob the information that was 50 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 3: learned through the internal investigation indicated by three detectives from 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 3: the state police that she never ever voiced any of 52 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: those concerns. 53 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: Is that normal does a prosecutor throughout the process? Are 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: they kept usually? Are they kept up to data? Do 55 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: they normally if they have concerns? Do they normally say 56 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: something as the investigations going on? 57 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: Oh? Sure, then she did that. She wanted wanted Jeff 58 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 3: to follow up on several facets of the investigation to 59 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: prove intent. 60 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: So she was communicating with him and at no point 61 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: was she like, boy, I got serious case. 62 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: Absolutely not know their emails, text message, just phone conversations. 63 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: Jeff never talked to her independently by himself. He was 64 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: always with another detective when he talked to her, and 65 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: quite frankly thought that the relationship was good. 66 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So, according to the Indiana Capitol Chronicle, they interviewed 67 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: this Holly Huddleston. She claims no one from the Governor's 68 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: office that was in quotes influenced her decision not to 69 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: seek the charges, and she said, quote, I didn't feel 70 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: like there were criminal charges there, so I declined to 71 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: file charges. And we told Casey Smith at the time, Casey, 72 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: I think you were out on vkse I said, said, well, 73 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: no kidding, lady. Obviously there were no criminal charges filed. 74 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: But she doesn't appear to offer any sort of reason 75 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: why she felt the eighty page probable cause affidavit was 76 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: bogus or wrong or whatever. 77 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's absolutely correct. And the question would be, 78 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: did anyone communicate with you about this case? I never 79 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: suggested that Mike Brown called her yeah, or that Josh 80 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: Kelly called her right, But I wonder if either one 81 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: of those two people communicated with the top two or 82 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: three members of the ISP, or if they communicated with 83 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: her directly. The ISP communicated with it was specifically the 84 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,279 Speaker 3: top administration. 85 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: Because one of the things with us. Doug Carter is 86 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: our guest, former state Police superintendent. We're talking about the 87 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: the Tom client Helter investigation. Du Bois County sheriff, who 88 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: was accused of improprieties related to spending commissary money on 89 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: trips that involved his wife. 90 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: No charges were ultimately filed. 91 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: One of the things that I think has a lot 92 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: of people concerned is they basically let when they decided 93 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: not to file the charges. This client helter dude write 94 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: his own press release on why no charges were being filed. 95 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: Is there normally some big expose from the prosecutor, especially 96 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: on a high profile case, on why you're not charging 97 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: issuing charges? 98 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 3: Completely unprecedented. And the meeting that was held to come 99 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 3: to that conclusion included the initial detective that was assigned 100 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: to this case for only a matter of five or 101 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: six weeks. 102 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: Okay, that's important real quick, because I want to reset 103 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,239 Speaker 1: this for people you would initially put somebody on the case. 104 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: It became pretty clear to you, I don't think this 105 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 1: person's doing a very good job. I'm not getting info 106 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: that I I want. So you sent Jeff Heren, who 107 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: did the Jamie Nolan investigation, to Sean Reid investigator said 108 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send my best guy down there right correct, 109 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: And here was not involved in this meeting, even though 110 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: he was the guy leading the investigation at the time. 111 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: No, this was after he was already completed the probable 112 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 3: cause af Dave was already completed ten search warrants, multiple 113 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: facets of technicology technology. So Jeff was not even invited 114 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: to that meeting to discuss this. 115 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: But the original guy who wasn't even involved in the 116 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: case now was there at the meeting. 117 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 3: That's correct. I don't understand that. 118 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: Okay, very good, thanks the answer the question case you 119 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: go ahead. 120 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: Well, I'm curious after the probable cause affidavit was tabled 121 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 4: and Hearin was put on a two day suspension and 122 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 4: also the reassignment, do you feel that that was retaliatory? 123 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: Oh? I don't think there's any question about that. Yeah, 124 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: I mean the facts, the facts are the facts here. 125 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: And some of this has gotten a bit convoluted over time, 126 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: and that's natural because there's so many people involved in 127 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: it now. But there was a release from the Governor's office, 128 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 3: from Governor Brown's office, apparently by Josh Kelly, indicating that 129 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 3: that I was a liar. 130 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: And hey too, we're in a team together, mister Superintendent 131 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: of guys. 132 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: Josh Kelly doesn't like congratulations. 133 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: That I resort to lies in a desperate attempt to 134 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: smear up brave women and women in blue. That's preposterous 135 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 3: and he knows better. 136 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was really bad look for Josh Kelly. 137 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 3: Well, I don't have again my dog in the fight. 138 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: Here is the truth and what happened on my watch. 139 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: And this is not about ninety nine point nine percent 140 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 3: of the members of the India State Police. I love them. 141 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is about your guy. 142 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 3: And I tried to communicate with the current superintendent about 143 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 3: the detail associated with this case and it was so 144 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 3: important that he knew it along with a multitude of 145 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: other cases. But he didn't want to talk to me 146 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 3: about this. Well, now I'm thinking, rob, I mean interrupt. 147 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: So now I'm kind of thinking to myself, Well, now 148 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: I understand, because he might have had a notion of 149 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: how this was going to end, and if he talked 150 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: to me about it and he heard all the detail 151 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: that he would have had no idea about, it might 152 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: have changed the outcome. 153 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: You kind of tiptoed up to this. 154 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: I'm curious what sort of precedent now does this set 155 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 4: for ISP detectives who are working high profile or politically 156 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 4: sensitive cases going forward. 157 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: They need to be aware of this. They certainly need 158 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 3: to be aware of this. And I think the people 159 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: have learned about this internal and what heron was charged 160 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: with and understand that it's superficial at best, make believe probably, 161 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: and they need to be very very careful here. They'll 162 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: do the right thing, those detective stay police detectives will 163 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: do the right thing every single time, and I just 164 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: hope they don't receive the same level of interference. 165 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 2: Well, and that's a great question, casey. 166 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: And there's the other aspect of this too, which is 167 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: we read about these stories about government corruption or alleged 168 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: government corruption all the time, and it seems like very 169 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: rarely something happens. And in this case, when you reason 170 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: that eighty page probable cause affidavit, you guys went above 171 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: and beyond. It seems like ore here and did went 172 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: above and beyond to lay all this out for the public. Yes, 173 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: and then even when we can get somebody to investigate 174 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: it and put together what seems to be a pretty 175 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: strong case. 176 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: If they happen they say that the investigation was complete 177 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: after the initial detective looked at it, Well, my question 178 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: to that would be okay, so you're telling me the 179 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: eighty four page probable cause affidavit is not accurate or truthful. 180 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's ridiculous. 181 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 3: That's absolutely a ridiculous statement. And I rob Casey, I've 182 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: got I've got nothing to gain in any of this 183 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 3: other than headache. Well, and it's a headache I'm willing 184 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: to take. Yeah, but I'm not going to walk away 185 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 3: from it. And I think that this this ten tab 186 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 3: back and forth is just complete nonsense. 187 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 2: Go ahead, case you said you're not going to walk 188 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: away from it. 189 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 4: Okay, So you have come out, You came out on 190 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 4: our show, and now other news agencies are picking up 191 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 4: the story and giving you a broader distribution. What do 192 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 4: you want to come of this? 193 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: I want them to tell the truth. That's all I 194 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 3: want them to do is just simply tell the truth. 195 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: Reopen the case. 196 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: Oh I think it should be reviewed again, Absolutely I do. 197 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: Now it can it be? I'm not sure? 198 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk. Let's talk about that, because that was 199 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: my question to you. Is is it final? Once she 200 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: says no charges? But you have concerns about how the 201 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: whole thing was even put together with her. 202 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: Well, it appears that she never acknowledged or took or 203 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 3: acknowledged the receipt of the judicial assignment to be the 204 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: special prosecutor, nor did she complete a document after her 205 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: decision was made outlining why she came to that conclusion. 206 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: I'm not a lawyer, so I'm summarizing kind of what 207 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: I think the statute says. But the statute is very 208 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: clear that she shall do both of those things. So again, 209 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: I don't know what that means to the legal process 210 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 3: to do process, and we'll just let us We'll just 211 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 3: see how it goes over time. 212 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: Because that was my question to you, was it does 213 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: Is it there a point where like, is the case 214 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: even technically? 215 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: Could it still be open? 216 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: You can change minds obviously, like if you thought, and 217 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is comparative. This what I'm just saying, 218 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: Like if you thought somebody had robbed a bank, but 219 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: you'd have enough to charge him he said, Okay, well 220 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: there's no charges, and then somebody produces a crystal clear 221 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: video four years later you can go back and charge him. Then, like, 222 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: has she closed this out as she relinquished this? Is 223 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: it still open? Could get you know? Could you change 224 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: her mind? 225 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: Like? 226 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: What what even would happen? 227 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 4: Now? 228 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 3: Well, I think judicial review is important and whether or not, 229 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: whether she accepted this or not, it would seemed to 230 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 3: me there's a likelihood that it could be reviewed either 231 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: by again by another state's prosecutor, or by the federal 232 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 3: government by the FBI. But I'm not sure it's out 233 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: of my purview now, it's not my responsibility. 234 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 4: Is it your ability to release heron's affidavin. 235 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 3: Is it my ability? Yeah? 236 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: Can you do that? 237 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 3: I have the initial Affidavid from before before Holly asked 238 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: Jeff to go back and proven, which he did and 239 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 3: she agreed. 240 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: But so wait, I think that's important. 241 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: She asked, She being Holly Huttleson, the special prosecutor, asked 242 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: Jeff here in the state police officer a specific thing. 243 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: And then you're saying after he did that, she agreed 244 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: that he had done the thing she asked for. 245 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 3: She did. 246 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: And this is why I think people like it's this 247 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: conversation somebody yesterday, I said, in government, one red flag 248 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: or anything in your life, right, one red flag? Okay, 249 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: maybe explain that a way. Two red flags you're really 250 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: paying attention. And by the time you get to red 251 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: flag three, four, five, six, you got to think something 252 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: is not right here. And it seems like with this 253 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: case that we're on like red flag number eight, nine 254 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: and ten. 255 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, Rob, this isn't make believe. You know, if somebody 256 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: would have said the things about me that I've said personally, 257 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 3: I would have called you and said, whoa Rob, there's 258 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 3: a whole other side to this story. You need to talk. 259 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 3: You need to talk to me. The only thing I've 260 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: gotten his personal attacks, so they've not had one and 261 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 3: to have any conversation with me about why I feel 262 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 3: the way I do. If this would have happened after 263 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: I after I left, I would not have dog in 264 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: this fight. But I've got a real dog in this fight. 265 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: One because of the of what happened in du Bois County. 266 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: But two how member of the ISP is being treated. 267 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: So it's it's what is more complicated. 268 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 4: What are the broader implications of this case for law 269 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 4: enforcement in Indiana. 270 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 3: Well, as everyone knows, we've had a pretty tough time 271 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: of the course of the last five years with law enforcement, 272 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 3: and the governor of this state knows that. And every 273 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: single time we have even the perception of impropriety, and 274 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 3: quite frankly, the first time I ever heard that word 275 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: was from Governor pens and I lived by that. I 276 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 3: lived by that standard, even the perception of impropriety. So 277 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: every time there's a perception of impropriety, some of them 278 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 3: we can't control. But when we do things that that 279 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: we intentionally do things that cause that, it does damage 280 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: to their to our profession. There's no question about that. 281 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: So I'm I'm concerned about that. 282 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: You you know everybody that everybody will hear this. What 283 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: are the things you want to see that you say 284 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: the public will feel better about this if these things 285 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: are done. 286 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: That's a good question, Rob, And I guess I haven't 287 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: put a whole lot of thought into that. 288 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: Well, well, no better time than now, Doug's there's only 289 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people. 290 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 3: No pressure, no pressure, right, no pressure. I would I 291 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: I've always been the kind of guy that I would 292 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 3: rather deal with the problem direct with the people involved. 293 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: My phone number is the exact same as it was 294 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 3: prior to January thirteenth to twenty twenty five, and if 295 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 3: anybody would like to talk about it, I'd be more 296 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 3: than willing to talk with him about it. 297 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: So if the's got questions. 298 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: The Governor's not going to call a guy like me, I'm. 299 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: Sure, Oh A guy like me, like you fill off 300 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: a turnip truck for the police. 301 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: Well after January thirteenth, I'm just a guy in the 302 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: turning truck and that's okay. That that is that's okay. 303 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 3: But I really think there's a learning opportunities here and 304 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 3: I would I would talk to anybody about this. I 305 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: got nothing to hide. I've got nothing to hide, and 306 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: it's just been a very difficult period of time. I 307 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 3: don't like talking about this. 308 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. 309 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: I was really pissed off about that statement from the 310 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: Governor's office and because of that, you know how we 311 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: get case, you know, we try and let it go, 312 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: and now we're not going to let this go because 313 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: that was completely ridiculous. 314 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: And so one thing. 315 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: I'd like to know Rob, Yes, did anybody from from 316 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: from the Governor leg Braun's staff have any contact with 317 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: the is NOW the now is SP leadership about this case. 318 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: That question has not been asked because I never have 319 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: accused the governor of calling direct, I never accused Josh 320 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 3: Kelly of calling direct. But did they ever have conversations? 321 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 3: Josh apparently has a significant amount of emails that go 322 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 3: that go back and forth about this matter. I don't 323 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: know what they are, but but come on expose them 324 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 3: and if. 325 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: Request, well but they probably before they were in the government. 326 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: Well the other thing that they could do is just 327 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: is talk about the PC on this case. I mean, 328 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: the facts don't lie. 329 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. They need to come out. 330 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: State Police needs to come out, and they need to 331 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: publicly say not in some administrative email or whatever. They 332 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: need to say along with this prosecutor. This is where 333 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Jeff here and screwed up. These are the things that 334 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: he put in there that are not accurate. These are 335 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: the things that we didn't feel rose to the level 336 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: of criminal behavior. See how they compare to the emails 337 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: as you're talking about throughout the course of the process, 338 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: and then say this is why not only were the 339 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: charges not filed, but why this distinguished officer was demoted. 340 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: That is you're absolute, hundred percent right. They do those things, 341 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: and if it's all on board, everybody goes. 342 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: Home and they need to know what occurred during that 343 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: meeting with Holly Huddlestains, What was that conversation? Like, It's 344 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 3: not been documented anywhere that I'm aware of, So what 345 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: actually occurred there? And I was a superintendent for twelve years, 346 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: so when we had something bad happened, I was the 347 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 3: face of it to protect the truth. Essentially. I don't 348 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 3: know why the current guy won't do that. I don't 349 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: know why he won't to dress this directly. 350 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: All right, well you know why, but we'll keep it going. 351 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: I'm giving him the benefit of the you're you're. 352 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: Too good for that. You've interviewed too many people, you 353 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: know what's up? All right, Doug Carter. I'm sure we'll 354 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: have you back on soon. I don't think the story 355 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: is going to go away. 356 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: Thank you. 357 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: Hey, it's good to be with you. I'll have a 358 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 3: good weekend. Thank you.