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Speaker 1: You know, Casey. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: in this country right now about autism, and this one

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Speaker 1: front and center again the other day when the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States, along with Robert F. Kennedy Junior,

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Speaker 1: came out with this big announcement about tile and all

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Speaker 1: and its potental links to autism in young kids, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, let's kind of talk to an expert

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Speaker 1: about this. Somebody who has spent a lot of their

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Speaker 1: life dealing with autism and people with autism, and most

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Speaker 1: morely helping people with autism. That's doctor Jim Dalton. He

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Speaker 1: is the CEO of Daymmar Services right here in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: They help thousands of people and have helped thousands of

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Speaker 1: people impacted by autism. Doctor Jim Dalton joins us now,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jim, Hello.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and thanks for the opportunity to talk today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and we always like to say this. Dam Our

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Speaker 1: Services is a sponsor of our State House Happenings program,

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Speaker 1: which airs Sunday mornings here on WIBC. So, Jim, you

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Speaker 1: heard the announcement the other day, and again when these

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Speaker 1: things happened, there's all sorts of conflicting information. I don't

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Speaker 1: think anybody's coming from a position of of anything but

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Speaker 1: wanting to help you as somebody who spent a long

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Speaker 1: time trying to help people and running a company that

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Speaker 1: helped people with autism. What was your reaction to the

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Speaker 1: President and the RFK Junior announcement.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's been an interesting week. As you know,

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Speaker 2: we serve a lot of kids and adults with autism.

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Speaker 2: So I've received lots of phone calls this week from

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Speaker 2: colleagues and of course from parents. And I was actually

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Speaker 2: talking to my board last night and they said, hey, Jim,

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Speaker 2: can you talk to us about this announcement from the

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Speaker 2: White House? And can you talk about it in a

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Speaker 2: non political way? And I, of course we giggled and

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Speaker 2: I said, I'm not sure I can do that. But interestingly,

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Speaker 2: a lot of my colleagues, just as you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: I expect it, just actually kind of rejected the information

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Speaker 2: that came out of the White House just because it

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Speaker 2: came out of the White House. And others, of course,

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Speaker 2: are concerned. And I have a lot of parents call

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Speaker 2: and say, oh gosh, did I do something wrong, and

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of guilt and different things like that.

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Speaker 2: But what I did was I reminded everyone that, you know,

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Speaker 2: what came out of the White House is really not

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Speaker 2: any new information. I mean, we've known for a long time.

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Speaker 2: There's been studies and some general reputable studies that have

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Speaker 2: talked about the associated risks of increased risks for autism

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Speaker 2: based on different things. One of them has been the

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Speaker 2: use of the seed of medicine during pregnancy. Right. So

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Speaker 2: I think the important thing to know is that while

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Speaker 2: there's increased risks with that, and there's research that said that, hey,

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Speaker 2: there may be some association here, there's been not one

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Speaker 2: single study ever done that is said that that is

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Speaker 2: causing autism. No vaccines, there's no studies to say that

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Speaker 2: has caused autism. But there is some increasing risks there

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Speaker 2: that I think we should just acknowledge that. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's also studies that have done seen increasing risks with

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Speaker 2: other things too, like for example, older mothers, you have

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Speaker 2: babies older in life, then you have an increased risk.

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Speaker 2: We've seen studies that support that infections during prega see

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Speaker 2: there's an increased risk birth complications, there's an increased risk.

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Speaker 2: So I think the precautionary statement out of the White

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Speaker 2: House is there's nothing wrong with that, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's actually probably good. But it's nothing new as far

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Speaker 2: back to twenty twenty one. You know, I think there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of cohort large studies that basically said, hey,

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Speaker 2: there is some issues here, let's be let's use some

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Speaker 2: cautions here. So that's kind of how it's gone difficult

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Speaker 2: to get out of the political realm when things come

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Speaker 2: from this White House. But so I think we should

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Speaker 2: just pay attention and continue to go forward with good research.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jim Dalton is our guests, the's CEO of daim

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Speaker 1: Our Services. We're talking about autism and obviously DeMar one

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Speaker 1: of the leading organizations here in the state of Indiana

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Speaker 1: helping people with autism. Does that announcement the other day,

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Speaker 1: Is it helpful for guys like you and companies like yours,

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Speaker 1: because your goal is, hey, no matter what's causing it,

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Speaker 1: we want to help people live more productive, independent lives.

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Speaker 1: And again, I think the President and I think RFK Junior,

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Speaker 1: I think they're coming from a point of trying to help.

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Speaker 1: But for the boots on the ground, is an announcement

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Speaker 1: like that yesterday helpful for the folks who are helping

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Speaker 1: people in real time with autism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I say mostly yes. I mean one of the

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Speaker 2: things I talked to my board about last night was, Hey,

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Speaker 2: the urgency to which the White Houses acknowledge this is

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Speaker 2: something that we should be happy about. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: been studying this for years and spent billions of dollars

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Speaker 2: on it. It's come back up. Oh, it's always been

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Speaker 2: a high priority, but it's come back up as something

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Speaker 2: that we're emphasizing more. You know, an announcement from the

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Speaker 2: White House always gets kind of the engines running. So

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Speaker 2: I do think that it's helpful, and we appreciate the urgency,

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Speaker 2: the awareness, and the struggles that families have and how

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Speaker 2: this has changed their lives unexpectedly and the things that

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Speaker 2: they go through with school age children, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the systems that are struggling with the behavior health symptoms,

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Speaker 2: the ABA clinics, the schools that are trying to manage

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Speaker 2: these children and their special needs. Is just something that

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Speaker 2: there can't be enough focus on that we need to

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Speaker 2: continue to work hard to help resolve and attenuate some

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Speaker 2: of these problems.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Jim Dalton is joining us. I'd like to ask

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Speaker 3: you a question on kind of a broader perspective, What

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Speaker 3: changes would you like to see in autism services at

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Speaker 3: the state or the national level.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a big question, you know. As you

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Speaker 2: know in Indiana, we were having a lot of struggles

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Speaker 2: with our budget, and you know, I've been privileged to

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Speaker 2: be on the Governor's appointed task force for the ABA

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Speaker 2: Task Force, and that's been a great experience. Lots of

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Speaker 2: smart people working on that. But you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that we're struggling with is the increase in

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Speaker 2: cost for these services with the increase in diagnosis. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, in twenty nineteen, I think the Medicaid spend

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Speaker 2: in Indiana was about one hundred and twenty million dollars

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Speaker 2: or so on kids with autism, especially in ABA clinics.

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Speaker 2: This year it'll be about five hundred million dollars, and

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Speaker 2: if nothing changes in twenty twenty nine, it's probably near

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Speaker 2: about eight hundred and fifty million dollars. So that of

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Speaker 2: course is not sustainable. So we have two things happen,

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Speaker 2: and we have an increased focus and increase incidents in autism,

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Speaker 2: and you know, lots of pressures in declining budgets. At

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Speaker 2: least I can speak in Indiana to how to actually

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Speaker 2: intervene in a cost effective way. It's a big challenge

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Speaker 2: right now. I think the focus still needs to be

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Speaker 2: on early intervention, early identification. That's the best way to

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Speaker 2: intervene with autism is to catch it early. Treatment can

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Speaker 2: be extremely effective if it's caught early. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we're trying to educate pediatricians. You know, that's usually the

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Speaker 2: front door by which it's usually first identified. So the

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Speaker 2: more that we can educate pediatricians and the more that

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Speaker 2: they can make their appropriate referrals and get those services

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Speaker 2: in place, that is wonderful. I think there's going to

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Speaker 2: be some recommendations to the governor come out that's gonna,

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Speaker 2: you know, be a reasonable response to our budget constraints,

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Speaker 2: especially around children with autism on Medicaid, which is a

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Speaker 2: big part of lots of kids that are being treated

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Speaker 2: with autism in Indiana. So early intervention is probably the

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Speaker 2: most effective thing that can be done.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Jim, before I let you go, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of talk about the increased rates of autism. Hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago it was this many kids one and

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Speaker 1: this many kids out autism. Yeah, all right, right, can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about whether that's accurate or

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Speaker 1: are we just better at diagnosing it. From your perspective,

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Speaker 1: as an expert who deals with this every single day,

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Speaker 1: can you give us some insight into those numbers.

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Speaker 2: Sure. As you know, many years ago, the the autism

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Speaker 2: became more of a spectrum disorder, so it widened the

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Speaker 2: range of consideration of certain symptoms and behaviors that might

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Speaker 2: qualify for the diagnosis of autism, and that has been

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Speaker 2: a significant has had a significant impact on the increasing numbers.

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Speaker 2: And there's really three things in any country that make

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Speaker 2: a difference in the number of kids that are diagnosed

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Speaker 2: with autism. The first one is diagnostic practices, the second

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Speaker 2: one is really kind of awareness and access to services

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Speaker 2: and diagnosis, and then the third one, which sometimes is

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Speaker 2: a big thing and sometimes not, but it's more the

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Speaker 2: cultural acceptance signs or stigmas of autism. So I do

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Speaker 2: think the expanded diagnostic considerations have made a difference. I

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Speaker 2: also think that we're coming to a point, like we

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Speaker 2: did with ADHD many years ago, that sometimes we're seeing

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Speaker 2: autism when it's not really there. A lot of times,

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Speaker 2: these young teenagers or even young adults with kind of

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Speaker 2: quirky personalities I'm hearing them saying, oh, those kids must

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Speaker 2: have autism. Well, autism can really only be a diagnosed

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Speaker 2: if it's evident in early childhood, so those developmental markers

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Speaker 2: have to be there, so diagnosis has been an issue.

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Speaker 2: I also have always said to my colleagues that there's

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Speaker 2: a true incidents increased in diagnosis in the way and

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Speaker 2: the reason I believe that is because a Jamar we

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Speaker 2: see very very severe autism, and those numbers have significantly

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Speaker 2: increased as well as long as the more what we

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Speaker 2: would call higher functioning, lower needs autism diagnoses. So those things,

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Speaker 2: you know, the United States of America has the largest incident,

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Speaker 2: the highest incident rates. Other countries have high incident rates too,

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Speaker 2: like South Korea is like one in thirty eight, Japan

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Speaker 2: is one in eighty seven. But if you think about India,

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Speaker 2: it's like one in five hundred fifty. And that's probably

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Speaker 2: because of those three things I noted, diagnostic practices, access

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Speaker 2: and awareness, and then the cultural stigma issues that go

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Speaker 2: along with autism. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks for all you do, Jim. If you want

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Speaker 1: to learn more about Daymar and what you guys do,

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Speaker 1: and if they want to help and be a part

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Speaker 1: of it. How can they do that?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Kenwww dot Damar dot org. We have lots of

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Speaker 2: resources for children and adults with autism. Just click on

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Speaker 2: the top. You can also call us directly at three

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Speaker 2: one seven eight five six five two zero one and

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Speaker 2: we will do all we can to direct help or support.

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Speaker 1: Jim Dalton, doctor Jim Dalton, the CEO of Daymar, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: my friend.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to Kendall and Casey on ninety three WIBC