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Speaker 1: The only way to bag a classy lady is to

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Speaker 1: give her two tickets to the gun show.

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Speaker 2: This Monday Gun Day with the.

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Speaker 3: Gun Swatch out with the guns they'll get stop calling

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Speaker 3: your arms gunn.

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Speaker 4: You can hear him on Saturdays from five until seven.

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Speaker 4: Ten years you've been working on that program. Congratulations. Also

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Speaker 4: a second Amendment attorney Guy Ralford in the studio and

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Speaker 4: how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am great and I always want to thank our

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Speaker 2: sponsor for Monday Gun Day. That's Premiere Arms in Brownsburg

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Speaker 2: with the largest selection of new, used, and historic firearms

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest and Pa Jules located in the farmhouse

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Speaker 2: right out front. Check them out at thirty seven and

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Speaker 2: fifty four South Green Street in Brownsburg or Premier Arms

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 4: All right, we have to talk about this story out

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Speaker 4: of Fisher's. This guy was charged with multiple felonies after

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Speaker 4: allegedly pointing a gun inside Joe's Bar and grill.

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Speaker 1: But was it a gun? Is it a considered a gun?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? See, this is really interesting. This guy apparently is

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Speaker 2: a knuckle ahead on several different levels, was in there

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Speaker 2: and apparently intoxicated and starting threatening people. And at one

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Speaker 2: point he pulled out what the callers to nine to

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Speaker 2: one one reporter to be a gun. Fisher's PD response.

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Speaker 2: It turns out it's not a gun gun. It's something

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Speaker 2: called a burnout launcher, and it looks if you looked

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Speaker 2: at one to the uninitiated, it's going to look like

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Speaker 2: a typical firearm, but it's not. It's actually powered by

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Speaker 2: CO two kind of like a paintball gun or you

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Speaker 2: know your Co two pistol if you grew up with

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Speaker 2: those as a kid, firing BB's or pellets, but it fires.

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Speaker 2: It's designed to fire a couple different things. It can

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Speaker 2: fire a an OC round what we call it, which

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Speaker 2: is basically pepper ball, so it hits somebody, it sort

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Speaker 2: of explodes, you know, it hits a body and then

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Speaker 2: it hits them with essentially pepper spray. Or this one

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Speaker 2: was loaded with a sixty eight caliber kinetic round. What

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Speaker 2: that is is a hard plastic it's hard polymer that's

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Speaker 2: designed a you know, like a rubber bullet that cops

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Speaker 2: may fire at riots, kind of like that. But he

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Speaker 2: was waving this thing around and threatening people with it.

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Speaker 2: Said he was a member of the FBI Terrorism Task Force,

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Speaker 2: which they can't verify, which is why he's also been

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Speaker 2: charged with impersonating a law enforcement but was charged with

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Speaker 2: three different foulon or three different intimidation with the deadly

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Speaker 2: weapon charges, and then two different criminal recklessness with a

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Speaker 2: deadly weapon. And it's kind of interesting because the issue

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Speaker 2: comes down to is this thing really a deadly weapon?

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Speaker 2: Because it's design did not be a deadly weapon. For

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Speaker 2: people who don't want to use a deadly weapon or

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Speaker 2: cannot legally carry a deadly weapon like a firearm, that's

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Speaker 2: a big issue too. And so I think it's going

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Speaker 2: to be an interesting case that gets prosecuted there in

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Speaker 2: Hamilton County Suprior Court.

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Speaker 4: So I have shopped one of these and premiere arms. Well,

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Speaker 4: it was before I took lessons from you.

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Speaker 2: Well, we need to just back up right there for

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Speaker 2: just a minute, by the way, because you need to

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Speaker 2: brag just a little bit. You and I. It was

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Speaker 2: a good friend of yours, and we went together and

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Speaker 2: I gave you some very minimal instruction. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 2: went and we went out on the range. And how

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Speaker 2: did you do, by the.

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Speaker 1: Way, I did all right?

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Speaker 2: Hold on, I did all right. When you go buy

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Speaker 2: Casey Daniel's office here at WYBC, what do you have

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Speaker 2: upon the wall.

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Speaker 1: I've got my target.

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Speaker 2: Office. And why did you put that up on the wall.

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Speaker 1: Well, because I got some center masks on a.

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Speaker 3: Brag on yourself a little bit. You're very good shot

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Speaker 3: center mask.

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Speaker 2: She was drilling all bulls eyes. She had other people

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Speaker 2: on the range stopping shooting, watching coming over watching her

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Speaker 2: shoot because she was hitting all bulls eyes.

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Speaker 3: And you're as you should take all that.

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Speaker 2: But but no, that was just you're just a badass,

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Speaker 2: is what it is.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you, so are you, and you are a

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Speaker 4: good instructor. And I always the one, the one takeaway

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Speaker 4: I always have was just to breathe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then but the thing was about this projectile that

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Speaker 4: this guy in Fisher. Okay, they're saying that if you

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Speaker 4: do fire it at someone's head or neck or spine,

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Speaker 4: it could cause serious injury or death.

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Speaker 2: And it says that in the owner's manual. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: that's where they're getting this deadly weapon, because they're saying,

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Speaker 2: if you hit someone in just the right place head, neck,

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Speaker 2: or spine exactly as you say, then now you could

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Speaker 2: cause you could you could cause death in that in

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Speaker 2: that situation. Although deadly weapon isn't only necessarily a weapon

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Speaker 2: that can cause death, because a weapon causes capable of

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Speaker 2: causing serious bodily injury, which can be something much less

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Speaker 2: than death, even something including severe pain or loss or

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Speaker 2: dysfunction of a bodily member or organ as part of

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Speaker 2: the definition. So there's different parts of it. But it's

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Speaker 2: just interesting because people carry these because they're like, I

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Speaker 2: won't get in the same trouble I would if I

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Speaker 2: was carrying a gun with this. And here's a guy

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Speaker 2: now charged with five different felonies that typically we only

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Speaker 2: see when people are charged or with carrying a firearm

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Speaker 2: or using a firearmy I legally.

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Speaker 4: Multiple felonies and what the pre trial hearing is scheduled

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Speaker 4: for December ninth.

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Speaker 5: How clear is the law on these less than lethal

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Speaker 5: weapons like this? Like, for example, you know, you know

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Speaker 5: you're if you're a convicted felon, you can't carry a

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Speaker 5: firearm right that include one of these?

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Speaker 3: How clear is the law on this.

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Speaker 2: Is such a good question because the definition of firearm,

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Speaker 2: both in Indiana and at the federal level, says a

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Speaker 2: weapon that expels a projectible by means of an explosion, Okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: And so a lot of times people have looked at

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Speaker 2: that and said, well, explosion, that connotes combustion, and if

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Speaker 2: you're not burning gunpowder, then that's not an explosion. If

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Speaker 2: it's just a CO two gun like this one or

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Speaker 2: an air pistol, then that's not an explosion quote unquote.

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Speaker 2: But you look up the definition of explosion in Websters,

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Speaker 2: what's it saying. It says the sudden release of gases.

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Speaker 2: Oh so CO two is totally is the CO two

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Speaker 2: of gas. And there are some states that have have

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Speaker 2: either amended their law or have cases that say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: an air rifle includes or is a firearm to they

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Speaker 2: extend it expels a projectible by means of the sudden

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Speaker 2: release of gas, whether it's oxygen or just or CO two.

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Speaker 2: And so we don't have a case like that in Indiana.

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Speaker 2: So people tend to believe, without necessarily legal authority to

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Speaker 2: support the proposition that they can carry a CO two

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Speaker 2: or air rifle because it doesn't meet the definition of firearm,

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Speaker 2: for instance, if they're a prohibited possessor, if they're a

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Speaker 2: felon or otherwise prohibited. And I've always I've always told them,

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Speaker 2: I go, well, we don't have a single case in

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Speaker 2: Indiana that says, Okay, you're a fehone in possession or

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Speaker 2: a violent felon in possession of a firearm and you're

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Speaker 2: going to jail because you were carrying an air pistol.

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Speaker 2: Don't We don't have that case from the Court of

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Speaker 2: Appeals or Supreme Court of Indiana. The statue doesn't say that.

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Speaker 2: But you look at the definition, and I always tell

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Speaker 2: people make your own decision. But it is susceptible to

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Speaker 2: that definition.

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Speaker 5: So the biggest takeaway I'm hearing is if you're buying

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Speaker 5: one of these less than lethal guns thinking that you're

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Speaker 5: reducing any potential legal liability you might have if you

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Speaker 5: that's probably that's unclear at this point.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a really smart way of putting it.

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Speaker 2: And I think I think that's a great way of

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Speaker 2: putting it. What I tell people, first of all, I

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Speaker 2: don't recommend them. If I if I have some three

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Speaker 2: hundred pound meth head that just kicked my door in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night, yeah, I don't know. By

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Speaker 2: the way, I don't know how many three hundred pound

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Speaker 2: meth heads.

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Speaker 3: That's a hungry meth head. Yeah, good appetite.

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Speaker 2: But you know, if I have some crazy person, drunk person,

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Speaker 2: drugged out person to kick just kick my door in.

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Speaker 2: Don't want to shoot them with a burner, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, no, I'm going to shoot him with something

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Speaker 2: that's going to stop the threat and stop the shit

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Speaker 2: the threat immediately. And so that's where I come from.

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Speaker 2: But I recognize, though, there are people out there that say, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to take a human life under any circumstances,

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Speaker 2: even if I'm about to die, even if my family's

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Speaker 2: about to die, I don't want to take a human life. Hey,

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Speaker 2: that's a personal decision. I respect that. Then maybe one

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Speaker 2: of these things is for you. What I would not

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Speaker 2: recommend to your point, which is such a good point,

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Speaker 2: is if you're prohibited or otherwise you want to wave

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Speaker 2: it around in a bar and do something knuckleheaded that

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Speaker 2: you think you can get away with because it's not

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Speaker 2: a firearm, that's not a good decision.

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Speaker 4: There's three different types of projectiles that can come from that, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's at least two. There's the what they call

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Speaker 2: the kinetic rounds, which are inert there's solid plastic, and

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Speaker 2: then there's the OC rounds or the pepper ball.

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Speaker 1: Pepper ball, Yeah, yeah, what I was thinking. And we're

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Speaker 1: continuing on with Guy Ralphord, the gun.

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Speaker 4: Guy, because we have so much to talk about right now,

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Speaker 4: is holding up my target.

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Speaker 5: So this was requested by the YouTube chat. By the way,

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Speaker 5: you can watch it on YouTube. Just go to YouTube

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Speaker 5: type in WIBC. The YouTube chat was requesting if we

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Speaker 5: were talking about how Casey completely you know, lit up

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Speaker 5: the range when she was there with Guy Ralford, and

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Speaker 5: how good of a shot she was. I wanted to

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Speaker 5: They requested the target. It is hanging in your office.

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Speaker 5: So I went and took it off the wall in

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Speaker 5: your office. And this is what we're looking at right now.

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Speaker 5: This was your result.

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Speaker 1: Five bullets one hole.

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Speaker 2: Lest you think I was exaggerating, you know, the highest

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Speaker 2: praise we ever give him to a shooter out on

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Speaker 2: the range when we're shooting Bull's eyes is a one

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Speaker 2: hole shooter. That's right where your your all your bullet

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Speaker 2: holes touch each other. And what we're looking at right now,

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Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, is one hole. It's one jagget hole.

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Speaker 2: That's as good as it gets out on the range.

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Speaker 2: That's a tight group. And that's that's why I was

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Speaker 2: bracking on you earlier. I'm so glad that you went

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Speaker 2: and got that because that proves my point.

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Speaker 3: What distance was this from? Approximately? Guys? This is about

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Speaker 3: ten yards? Is that usually?

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Speaker 2: What about ten yards?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 5: You know, I've always been told that's where most encounters happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, to your point, it's actually ten feet or less

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Speaker 2: is where ninety percent of self defense shootings happened. So

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Speaker 2: you can shoot like that at ten yards thirty feet,

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Speaker 2: then you are well equipped to defend yourself with a handgun.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I was so excited to see that.

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Speaker 1: I believe the handgun that I was using was a glock.

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Speaker 2: It was a glock extramee.

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Speaker 1: I say, well, you know.

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Speaker 4: What, because I originally I think I was either going

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Speaker 4: to do the SIG or the pea welfare and you said, no,

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Speaker 4: let's do the glock because it was the bigger of

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Speaker 4: the guns.

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Speaker 2: Though that was my clock?

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Speaker 1: Was it yours?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 4: I do know?

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Speaker 1: Or I thought it was mine?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I forgot what you brought to the range

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Speaker 2: because I always have a glock in my range bag

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Speaker 2: when we go, so no, if you own one, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it was yours.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think I remember you saying no, No, let's

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Speaker 4: train on the big one.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of.

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Speaker 4: Glocks, I brought that up because you had directed me

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Speaker 4: to this. The California Governor, Gavin Newsom, he signed ABY

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Speaker 4: eleven in twenty seven, which prohibits firearm dealers from selling

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Speaker 4: block and block platform pistols into law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, think about this. An entire I know, we don't

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Speaker 2: have much time now, an entire manufacturer banned, has been

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Speaker 2: banned in California. And the ostensible reason is because you

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Speaker 2: can take one of these and modify it to be

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Speaker 2: fully automatic. So they go, well, well, you can modify

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Speaker 2: it to be a machine gun, which is illegal. It's

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Speaker 2: illegal in Dana, it's illegal federally, it's illegal in California

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Speaker 2: if you illegally modify this gun. Oh no, that's a

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Speaker 2: bad circumstance. We don't want in California. So we're going

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Speaker 2: to ban the entire Glock line of handguns. And of

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Speaker 2: course it's California, so we get b too shocked. What's

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Speaker 2: going to be really interesting is NRA is already in

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Speaker 2: several other gun rights groups already talking about sewing them. Sure,

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Speaker 2: they're going to sue them. We'll see if this stands

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Speaker 2: up under a Second Amendment and analysis, and let me

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Speaker 2: tell you right now, not a chance in hell.

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Speaker 4: So they're saying, once again they're attempting to violate landmarks,

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: Decisions absolutely well, the Heller decision and already yeah, absolutely

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Speaker 2: saying that that if if a firearm, type of firearm

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Speaker 2: is commonly used for lawful purposes by US citizens, then

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Speaker 2: it's legal and it's protected by the Second Amendment. This

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Speaker 2: is the most commonly owned handgun in America. How's that

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Speaker 2: going to play out?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so most likely that will go to a court.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming in and doing the

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Speaker 4: double shot.

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Speaker 2: It's great to see you guys. Absolutely here