1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Line from Vaal Hartbiner and the Crossroads of America. It's 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Tony Katz today. It was a busy morning over there 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. You had Christy Nome, Homeland Security Secretary. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: She was having a news conference. You had Mike Johnson, 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House. I can hear them getting 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: ready right there for their news conference. Then you had 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: the conversation about the vote going on on the Hill 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: to release the Epstein files, which, yeah, I'm totally down 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: for Tony Kats. Tony Kats today, good to be with you. 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: Find everything over at Tony kats dot com. Republicans now, 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: with shutdown over, have to get into Okay, what are 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: the things that we need to get accomplished to help 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: us in the midterms. 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: That's the next step. That step is also. 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Important for us because these are things that we want done. 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: These are things that we want to make our life 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: more enjoyable, to bring down our costs, which is a 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: job number one for Congress to engage in. What are 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: you doing regarding this quote unquote affordability issue. Don't get 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: me wrong, getting the MC files released I think is 21 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: good stuff, but we should be clear, we should engage 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: in full clarity that what will move Americans more is 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: paying less for beef and cheese and coffee. So while 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: we may focus on certain things, we're nerds like. 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: We're deep, deep, deep, deep into this stuff. 26 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: What americans want, Oh, that's what matters, And what they 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: want is to spend less and a recognition of what's happening, 28 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: something we've talked about now for forever, and we got 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: ripped asunder for but we were right. Of course people 30 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: are going to attack. What do I say to Steve 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: Bannon now, who is like calling me a stock Republican? 32 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: Because I believe Scott. 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: Bessen hasn't done enough to engage the conversation about here's 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: what we're lowering costs, here's why things are still high, 35 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: here's what we're working on, Here's what the effect will be. 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: Come join this fight with us. Something I've been saying 37 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: for forever, the conversation about stop telling us everything is 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: good when it's not good. And now they're telling us 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: everything is not good. But here's what they're working on. 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: They took our advice. And it's not like we're so smart. 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: It's just that we were more honest about the thing. 42 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: We didn't think that somehow you could placate people through this, 43 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: which was an absolutely. 44 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: Nuts thing to do. 45 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: Placation was a terrible idea, terrible from Scott Besston the 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: Treasury s actually terrible from the president. Placating is what 47 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: Jennet Yellen did, the former Treasury secretary by telling us 48 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: that inflation was transitory. 49 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: Oh holy hell. 50 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: So these things, these price things, and the removal of 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: tariffs on coffee and beef of. 52 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: Very very valuable, very very smart more moves on that 53 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: matter greatly. 54 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: As for Epstein, Republicans are going to say, listen, we're 55 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: gonna call the vote, but there are some things that 56 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: we do have to concern ourselves with. And they are right. 57 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: They are absolutely right. Specifically, if you can gauge a 58 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: discharge petition, So a discharge petition is a way of 59 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: getting around the standards of the House and bringing something 60 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: to the floor for a vote. 61 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: If you do this and you just release. 62 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: Everything willy nilly, what happens when you release the wrong information? 63 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: What happens when you release names of potential victims? What 64 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: about their privacy? What if you release names of people 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're being called child molesters when 66 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: they did nothing wrong. The release of the files is 67 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: something I have stated I want, I do want. I 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: want people who abuse children to go to jail and 69 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: to go to jail forever. But just because somebody is 70 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: named in these files or in these papers and these 71 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: emails doesn't mean they did anything wrong. It's like the 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: whole thing with Trump. Trump's going to be named nineteen 73 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: billion times. What the bloody heck does that matter. The 74 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: only thing that matters is whether or not Trump was 75 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: involved in the abuse of children, and that doesn't seem 76 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: to be the case at all. And when I see 77 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: that what's his name, Larry Summers is all apologetic, Oh 78 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: my gosh, I shouldn't have been communicating with Jeffrey Epstein 79 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: for all. 80 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: Of those years. 81 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: Well, is that right? You shouldn't have been talking to 82 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: this creep, freak loser for all of those years. 83 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: What gave it away? 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: What gave it away? 85 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: Democrats are in this, and not every Democrat is guilty 86 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: because they're in it. But I believe in its release. 87 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: To the very best of our ability, I believe that 88 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: we should engage the release as much as humanly possible. 89 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: We should not engage a standard discharge petition that does 90 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: not have protections. That's really dumb, guys, that's a bad idea. 91 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 1: If I check out the New York Post, a House 92 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: dem pushing for release of full Epstein files predicts contents 93 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: will shock the conscience of this country. That's Rokhanna. I'm 94 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: not saying, no representative, Kahanna. I'm agreeing with you that 95 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: I am. I am there that what we're going to 96 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: see we won't actually believe based on everything I know 97 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: about this, And I'm not saying I know anything that's 98 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: necessarily differently than you do. What I'm saying is if 99 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: we are not protective of names who did nothing wrong, 100 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: there's a woman and who's gonna be listed in here, 101 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: who's a victim. Maybe she doesn't want to be outed. 102 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: There are some women you know that at press conference today, 103 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: and we want this and you got to. 104 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: You gotta put out this information. We must have this. 105 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: There's someone gonna be like, no, that part of my 106 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: life was there, and I have dealt with it, and 107 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: I deal with it in my own way, and I 108 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: don't need to be outed, and I don't want to 109 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: answer questions about it. When am I gonna tell that 110 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: woman she's wrong? I'm gonna tell that woman somehowt she's 111 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: she's weak or or not taking this seriously. All hell. No, 112 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm not having that conversation with anybody. And if someone 113 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: is going to have that conversation, I just want to 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: be front row with a bourbon some popcorn just to 115 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: see what happens. Telling somebody how they should deal with 116 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: things is something special. And when I say special, I 117 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: mean insane. So I don't know how it's going to 118 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: go down, but I am concerned that they are going 119 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: to release information without focus. And when you do that, 120 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: when you release information without focus, when you release it 121 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: without levels of protections, what you are opening up. I'm 122 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: not saying that all of it's going to be a problem. 123 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: I am saying that some of it may destroy lives 124 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: that don't deserve it. And we should just be clear 125 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: about this. We are here, we are at the precipice. 126 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: I have asked for this, You have asked for this. 127 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: This is the right thing to do. 128 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: And as I've been discussing that Trump is now in 129 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: favor of the release, you absolutely understand ten thousand percent 130 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: to understand that what happened here is that Trump went 131 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: along with the Republicans. Trump saw the writing on the wall. 132 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: He pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed for this 133 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: not to be a thing. Why are you paying attention 134 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: to this doesn't matter. It's all Democrat hoax. He had it wrong, 135 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: as we said it. Then it was a swing and 136 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: a miss from the president. He had it wrong. And 137 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: then you had all these people on the political right, 138 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: the so called influencers. President Trump does wants. 139 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: To talk about this. 140 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: Yes, it's a distraction, whatever he wants, it's a distraction. 141 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: The hell it's a distraction. 142 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: We voted for this. 143 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: Don't you tell us, so called influencers on the right 144 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: what we voted for. You ain't in charge of a 145 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: holy damn thing. I only hope this taught you the 146 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: greatest lesson. Sit down, the people decide. Remember when the 147 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: conservatives came out and said in twenty sixteen, you can't 148 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: vote for Trump, he's not a real conservative. And they 149 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: signed these letters and they put out their missives. You 150 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: know what, the people said, kiss off, We'll vote for 151 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: whoever we want. And now so many of them are. 152 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: I was with Trump the whole time and everything else. 153 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: It would have been better if you've just been honest 154 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: about Trump. Yeah, I got real worries and real trepidation, 155 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: real concerns about him in the first term. But there's Hillary, 156 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: and with Trump, I have a fifty to fifty shot 157 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: of getting what I want. With Hillary, I have no shot, 158 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: which is exactly what was said on this show. Well, 159 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: actually I wasn't even this show at the time. It 160 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: was my other show, my morning show. Trump, I have 161 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: a fifty to fifty shot Hillary, I have no shot. 162 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: I'm going with the odds. 163 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: That's what the rational person does, and that's how we 164 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: need to engage this. These influencers and everybody else who 165 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: think that because they say it, you have to believe it. 166 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: Horse crap. 167 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: You're smarter than them, you know better than them, because 168 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: you know what it is you're looking for. And if 169 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: they make argument, you're like, you know what, I agree 170 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: with that argument. 171 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: That's one thing. But they're saying, we've said it, so 172 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: you have to believe it. 173 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: Oh, screw that, And that's what the president saw that 174 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: you said, screw that. Not paying attention to these people, 175 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: I want the data, kitten. 176 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: What did Epstein do? Who was on the island? Who 177 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: needs to go to jail? 178 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: When do they go to jail and do I get 179 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: to slap the cuffs on the guy or anybody else. 180 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: But you can't just release information, Willy Nelly Man. We 181 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: don't engage protections. There's gonna be a lot of regret 182 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: and a lot of lives hurt for no reason whatsoever, 183 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: and that we should not abide. 184 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 2: I'm Tony Kats. 185 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: This is Tony Kats today. So this cloud Flare outage 186 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: today was a real issue for people on Twitter or 187 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: on Zoom or anybody trying to engage in actual commerce. 188 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: Tony Kats, Tony Kats today, Good to be with you. 189 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: That's real disruption, and we saw a disruption. I want 190 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: to say it was a year ago when Delta went 191 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: down and all the airports had the issues. 192 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: Well what caused that? This time? 193 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: It's a group called cloud Flare where you see this 194 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: all the time. You got to click a little box 195 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: and get to the website. I'm not quite sure what 196 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: it does. I'm not quite sure why everybody needs it, 197 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: certainly Elon musk over at X. 198 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: But every time. 199 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: There's an issue like this, you gotta wonder what kind 200 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: of damage is being done not only to commerce, but 201 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: to the company. Doctor Marcus Rogers joins me right now, Professor, 202 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: Associate Dean of Faculty in the director of the cyber 203 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: Forensics Lab at Purdue Polytechnic Institute at Purdue University, right 204 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: here in my beloved Indiana, not too far up the road. 205 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: And sir, I think we start with a basic I 206 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time. 207 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: What in the world is cloud Flare? 208 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: Clud Flair is a large company. 209 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 4: They look after the security component, so their main thing 210 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 4: is security. 211 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: So when we talk about why all. 212 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 4: These companies have that, it is because all these companies 213 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 4: require security. So they help secure these companies from attacks. 214 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 4: And as ironic as it sounds, they're supposed to protect 215 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 4: companies from outages whereach in this case, they. 216 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: Seem to be the one that caused it. 217 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 4: So, like I said, they're probably one of the largest 218 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 4: security companies in the world, and pretty much every large 219 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 4: company has cloud Flare in their environment. 220 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: How do I always hear about in the world of 221 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: cyber and the world of tech redundancies and having different 222 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: ways of doing things. Does it make sense that one 223 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: company has so much of the space. 224 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 4: No, And this is one of the problems that we 225 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 4: in the security industry warned against way back you look 226 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: at we're dealing with what's something called a single point 227 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 4: of failure problem right now. When these large companies basically 228 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 4: become so big, so ubiquitous that everybody uses them and 229 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 4: there's no other choices, then you have single points of failure. 230 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 4: So if that company happens to have a problem, then 231 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 4: it affects almost everybody in all the largest companies. We 232 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 4: saw this with Amazon a few weeks ago when Amazon 233 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: Aws went down. Because they're the one of the largest 234 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 4: cloud providers out there, they were a single point of failure. 235 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 4: So this is now a big issue. You really don't 236 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 4: have to go out now and attack multiple companies to 237 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 4: cause problems. You only have to attack one of these 238 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 4: large single points of failure, and the entire Internet's impacted. 239 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: Talking to a doctor Marcus Rogers, Professor, Associate deed for 240 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: Faculty and director of the cyber Forensics Lab at Purdue 241 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: Polytechnic Institute at Purdue University, is this the same thing 242 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: that happened to I brought up Delta, which I think 243 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: was about a year ago. Is this the same group 244 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: or was that a different group of same concept? 245 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 3: Same group? 246 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: Oh? 247 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's the same group. And again because they 248 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 4: are literally so big. 249 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: So what is it in this case today with the outage, 250 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: what is it that caused the outage? 251 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: Well, we'll never know for sure, according. 252 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: To well, you're making a conspiratorial sir. 253 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was a single it was. 254 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 4: They claim it was a misconfiguration, which obviously that's the 255 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 4: that's the uh excuse that every company has when something happens. 256 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 4: They're very quick to say that it wasn't an attack 257 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 4: from the outside, that it wasn't anything that was, you know, 258 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 4: a type of cyber terrorism. They claimed that it was 259 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: a misconfiguration internally, which is what every company says when 260 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: this happens. So this is part of the problem when 261 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 4: you're looking at it from the outside is we never 262 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 4: really know what really happened. We only know what the 263 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 4: company wants the world to hear. 264 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Are any of these companies, sir? Are any of them 265 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: like subject to for example, when the NFL puts out 266 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: an injury report, right and this person's out and this 267 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: person's injured. If you lie about that stuff, the fines 268 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: are pretty dang severe. Are there is there anything like 269 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: that that we have in terms of whether it's government 270 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: overside or something else. I assure it would be government 271 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: oversite that checks in on Wait, did you really not 272 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: get attacked? 273 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: Well, no, especially not in the US. 274 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 4: In the EU they have a little bit of a 275 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 4: different structure for basically looking at oversight and what they 276 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 4: do with that. 277 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 3: In the US, absolutely not. 278 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: And I'm not saying I wasn't a misconfiguration. 279 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: But the point is there really is. 280 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 4: No. 281 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: They really do not. 282 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 4: Have to be transparent in what causes because they'll claim 283 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 4: there's all kinds of issues about intellectual property and things 284 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: like that. What I always find kind of very interesting 285 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 4: when these companies claim it was a misconfiguration. Well, you're 286 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 4: such a large company, how could one misconfiguration take everything down? 287 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 4: Aren't you supposed to have single you know, have redundancy, 288 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 4: not have these single points. So I'm always a little 289 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: bit suspicious when oh, it was just one line of code, 290 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 4: that's like, wow, that's not a very good coded program 291 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 4: if that's one line of code took down. 292 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 3: The entire Internet. 293 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: Talking to doctor Marcus Rogers, the director of the cyber 294 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: Forensic Lab after Due Polytechnic Againstutent for Due University, I 295 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: don't know you, so this is the first time we've 296 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: met first time we're speaking. But I think I'm a 297 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: pretty good read on people. You sound angry, I'm frustrated. 298 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: Let me let me say it this way, like, dear Lord, 299 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: how many more of these are we going to witness 300 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: before we do something? So what is your suggestion about 301 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: what it is we as the internet surfing populace do 302 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,479 Speaker 1: And this is where. 303 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 4: We as And I'm not so much angry as frustrated 304 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: because obviously, you know, I'm trying to get on board 305 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 4: online to do stuff this morning. We're trying to do 306 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 4: things and it just impacts everybody. So it's more of 307 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 4: a frustration. 308 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: You know, I understand. 309 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 4: You know, these companies have a business and it's not 310 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 4: you know, if they want to be monopoly and do that, 311 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 4: we let them do that. 312 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 3: That's that's on us. So we as the consumers really 313 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: don't have a lot of power with this. 314 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: This is really something as much as I hate to 315 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,359 Speaker 4: use the R word, there has to be some regulations 316 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: out there that basically say, when this happens, there has 317 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 4: to be transparentancy. We cannot allow for one company to 318 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 4: basically be so large that it takes there's got to 319 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 4: be some competition out their competition is healthy, and we 320 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 4: don't have that right now with the Internet. 321 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: The idea of regulations where you step into my world 322 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: in al ways where I have a massive amount of recoil. 323 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: Do you see this as a national security issue or 324 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: or I mean, can you see it as a national 325 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: security issue? Or is it much more of a this 326 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: is just bad for business issue. 327 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 4: It's actually both, because I tear right now, a lot 328 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: of what you're seeing out there, a lot of what 329 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 4: we're dealing with. As you know, the regular Joe public, 330 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 4: our government is in the same boat. It's the same Internet, 331 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 4: and quite often they are contracting with the exact same companies. Now, yes, 332 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 4: there are there are some secure networks that the Department 333 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 4: of Defense have, but for the most part, the government 334 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 4: is running on the same internet you and I are 335 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 4: running on. So a outage like this not just only 336 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 4: affects us to get on Zoom. It can affect basically 337 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 4: the lawmakers, can affect the government agencies. It can affect 338 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 4: we saw that, you know, effects the airlines. It can 339 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 4: affect a lot of our critical infrastructure, and that makes 340 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 4: it a national security issue. 341 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, doctor Marcus Rogers, Director of 342 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: the cyber Forensics Lab at Purdue Baldi Technique Institute there 343 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: at Purdue University. For any smaller groups using cloud fair, 344 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: what's your immediate suggestion cloud Flair? 345 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: Sorry, what's your immediate suggestion? 346 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 4: Have some patience because quite often if you're using these 347 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 4: and to be quote ninety nine point nine percent of 348 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 4: the time it is they're not having a problem. It's 349 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 4: that one percent that causes us all the you know, 350 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 4: all the eggs. So right now, because you really don't 351 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 4: have a choice, it's not the consumer can go and 352 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 4: say I don't want to use If whoever your backbone 353 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 4: is attached to is using cloud Flare, you're using cloud Flare. 354 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: So we really don't have a choice. 355 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 4: But like I said, it's just a matter of I think, 356 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 4: being informed consumers and maybe kind of letting our frustration 357 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 4: be a little bit more evident to the lawmakers that hey, 358 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 4: this really can't keep going on like this, because here, 359 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 4: right now, this isn't the end of it. We are 360 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 4: going to see more and more of these single points 361 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 4: of failures and in the coming years, because we're hitting 362 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 4: a almost a threshold or a turning point where we 363 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 4: have so much traffic, we have so much going on, 364 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 4: and it's so complicated. 365 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 3: These things are going to continue to happen unless we 366 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: do something about it. 367 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 2: Tipping points, I believe, is the word. 368 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: We're looking forward point, that is it. Doctor Marcus Rodgers, 369 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: I just wanted to be as smart as a professors. No, 370 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: August Rogers, I appreciate you taking the time to be 371 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: with us. More to get to I'm Tony Katz than 372 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: this is Tony Katz today. So speaker Mike Johnson took 373 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: to the podium talking about the Epstein files as I 374 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: was earlier Tony Katz, Tony kats today. He said, first 375 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: things First, you know, these Democrats are a bunch of 376 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: lowly frauds. 377 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 2: Right, These people are frauds. 378 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: The only reason they care about the Epstein vows is 379 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: how they can get Trump. They don't actually care about 380 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: these women. That is obvious and true. I would argue 381 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: that is true for the vast majority. Certainly makes the 382 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: party look bad. I think you can find individuals who 383 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: are actually focused on Hey, I want this information out 384 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: and I want people who need to be in jail 385 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: in jail. I have to believe that does indeed exist 386 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: in some cases as a party, it is only about 387 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: how they can hurt Trump. They don't care about these women. 388 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: I would say that to anyone, and I just did. 389 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: But Mike Johnson, the speaker, goes into a part two. 390 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: This discharge petition idea is a bad idea. You're going 391 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: to release everything. You're going to release information you don't 392 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: want to release. You're going to release information. As I 393 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: was discussing earlier, that you will regret. This was the 394 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: speaker in his own words. 395 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 5: Now, this was an unspeakable tragedy. We said that, and 396 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 5: we have great compassion for the victims, and I'm heartened 397 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 5: that I met with the victims or House Oversight Committee 398 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 5: members met with the victims, and they deserve justice. It 399 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 5: has been too long delayed, not just justice for what 400 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 5: they were made to endure, but also we need answers 401 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 5: on why it took so long for the Department of 402 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 5: Justice itself to do that job under previous leadership. Republicans meanwhile, 403 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 5: are working in earnest to deliver transparency to the American people, 404 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 5: and we're working to do that in a responsible manner 405 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 5: that does no further harm to these innocent people and 406 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 5: the victims who have been wrapped into this. There are 407 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 5: a few key facts here that everybody needs to understand. First, 408 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 5: I mentioned the House Oversight Committee doing its work that 409 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 5: is a bipartisan effort. They are already producing far more 410 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 5: than the discharge petition even anticipates. Chairman Comer is our 411 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 5: chair of Oversight. Some of the biggest bulldogs in Congress 412 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 5: served on that committee, you all know, and I've mentioned 413 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 5: this so many times. They have been on the Republican 414 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 5: and Democrat side. They're deeply dug in. They've been working 415 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 5: around the clock. They worked even through the government shut down, 416 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 5: and they were tranches of documents that were released even 417 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 5: over that period. By last count, it's over sixty five 418 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 5: thousand documents Epstein file documents that are now out in 419 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 5: the public for everyone to review. That includes tens of 420 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 5: thousands of pages from the Epstein estate, and that includes 421 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 5: Epstein's flight logs, his personal financial records and ledgers, his 422 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 5: daily calendars, and so much more. And none of that 423 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 5: is even written or included in the discharge petition. So, 424 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 5: in other words, the Oversight Committee's doing far more than 425 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 5: the discharge even anticipates, and the most valuable information thus 426 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 5: far has come from the Epstein estate files. 427 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: So that's an interesting way of saying our way, Well, 428 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: AC should get you more information, but you just seem 429 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: to be in a rush and careless, which is an 430 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: interesting argument in and of itself. 431 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 5: I brought a chart in here this morning. I do 432 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 5: want to illustrate for you what we are concerned with now. 433 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 5: I was a federal court litigator. The members of our 434 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 5: House Judiciary Committee, Republicans in particular, have many of these concerns. 435 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 5: You have Chairman Jim Jordan and attorneys like Chip Roy's 436 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 5: running attorney general is now. You have Bradnought, who is 437 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 5: a former federal prosecutor. Many members on the committee, Andy 438 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 5: Biggs is running for governor of Arizona. They're lawyers, and 439 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 5: they understand that the way the discharge position was drafted 440 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 5: is haphazard and dangerous. This is why we have been 441 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 5: opposed to this point. Okay, and I could be here 442 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 5: for a long time going through all the details of it. 443 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 5: But the big concern we've all had all along is 444 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 5: at the House bill. If it's passing its current form 445 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 5: and it was signed into law, it is dangerously flawed. 446 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 5: And our problem, in our frustration is there's no way 447 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 5: for us in the House to amend it or correct 448 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 5: these problems, because the authors of the discharge will not 449 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 5: allow it. And that's one of our great frustrations. I mean, 450 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 5: just very quickly, we have a legal document that the 451 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 5: lawyers we have all drafted to explain all this. But 452 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 5: let me give you quick, quick, five quick maybe the 453 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 5: top five concerns about it, and there are more, But 454 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 5: as drafted in the discharge petition, it fails to fully 455 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 5: protect victim privacy. I'm going to read you an excerpt 456 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 5: out of our legal document we put together to explain 457 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 5: on this. Congress should give the Attorney General broader authority 458 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 5: to redact all the victim information. The discharge doesn't do that. 459 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 5: This would prevent the release of information that could be 460 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 5: used to unmask victims who have chosen to remain anonymous. Now, 461 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 5: you have some very brave women who have come forward 462 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 5: and put their names and faces out there and done 463 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 5: press conferences and explain that justice is overdue, and our 464 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 5: hearts go out to them, and they are heroes. But 465 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 5: you have as many as a thousand women, by some 466 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 5: of the accounts, who may be caught up in this, 467 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 5: and the vast majority of them have not come forward. 468 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 5: Probably for obvious reasons. They don't want to be unmasked. 469 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 5: But the discharge petition doesn't have adequate protections. It risks 470 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 5: revictimizing those who are trafficked and exploited. 471 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: That's absolutely correct, and it's kind of amazing that we're 472 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: not taking that into account in this push to release them. 473 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: I want them released. I haven't backtracked for my thoughts 474 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: at all. The only thing that I ask is we 475 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: do it with a bit of rationality, and that doesn't 476 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: seem to be happening, which means Marjorie Taylor Green is wrong. 477 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: I know she wants to Yella Trump. I know she 478 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: wants to call herself the true patriot. But dear Lord, 479 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: I didn't say don't release I said don't engage the 480 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: idea that somehow women want to be known for this. 481 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: You're putting them out there, whether they like it or not. 482 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: That's messed up, especially when you can do something about it. 483 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: It's about being rational, it's about being aware that other 484 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: people's lives and as as Speaker Johnson says it, and 485 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: you would say it too, you're gonna victimize them twice, 486 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: not give them a say twice. 487 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: That's messed up. 488 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 5: Stuff, and the courts have recognized this concern. By the way, 489 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 5: I read you a quick excerpt. On August twentieth this year, 490 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 5: Judge Richard Berman the Southern District of New York issued 491 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 5: an order denying the DOJ's request to release Epstein grand 492 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 5: jury materials, noting quote, names and identifying information of victims 493 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 5: appear in the subject materials unquote. Judge Berman then quoted 494 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 5: a letter related to victim's concerns, which stated the following, quote, 495 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 5: transparency cannot come at the expense of the very people 496 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 5: whom the justice system is sworn to protect unquote. And importantly, 497 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 5: the judge quoted a letter from one of the victims 498 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 5: in the proceeding. She is named as Jane Doe. Two. 499 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 5: She said this, this is one of the victims. Quote. 500 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 5: I beg the court to make sure it is of 501 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 5: the utmost priority that in any sort of release, all 502 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 5: and every detail that could possibly reveal our identities be redacted. 503 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 5: The victims of Epstein's evils deserve that protection, and the 504 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 5: discharge does not currently provide. Okay, number two. 505 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: I don't actually think it gets clearer than that. I 506 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: think that's a compelling argument, and I'd be kind of 507 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: curious to hear who doesn't think it's compelling. But anyway, 508 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: onto some of his other issues and House Republicans issues 509 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: with just a discharge petition. 510 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 2: Which is a way of circumenting the rules of the House. 511 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: It's the House members all voting to say we want 512 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: this brought to the floor, so it doesn't go through 513 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: the normal rules of the House. It's called the discharge 514 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: petition and would go directly to the floor for a vote. 515 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: And that's what Speaker Johnson is concerned with here. 516 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 5: The discharge petition could create new victims, okay, because it 517 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 5: requires the DOJ to release information even in cases where 518 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 5: the DOJ or the FBI has already reviewed it and 519 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 5: determined it is not credible, it is false information. Doing 520 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 5: this and requiring this to come out could ruin the 521 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 5: reputations of completely innocent people, such as those who have 522 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 5: may just have known Epstein but knew nothing of his crimes, 523 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 5: or whose names he exploited. Think of this innocent people 524 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 5: whose names he exploited and used to try to get 525 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 5: close to his intended victims. Their names may be in 526 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 5: these files and they had nothing to do with this, 527 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 5: and so by just haphazardly releasing it, you're going to 528 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 5: destroy their reputations. Releasing information containing the names of innocent 529 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 5: people would subject those innocent people to a guilt by association. 530 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 5: It would create an entirely new group of victims who 531 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 5: have no means to clear their names. That's a concern 532 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 5: of Congress, and it should be. It should be Number three. 533 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 5: The discharge in its current form fails to prohibit the 534 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 5: release of child sexual abuse materials. That is a term 535 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 5: of art. It's called see sam okay, it's defined in 536 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 5: the US Code. The discharge is so haphazardly written because remember, 537 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 5: it's just a political exercise for these guys. They don't 538 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 5: seem to care about this. But they cited the wrong 539 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 5: section of the US Code. So when they try, when 540 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 5: they say that, they're, oh, we don't want child pornography 541 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 5: to come out, child sexual abuse materials, of course, we 542 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 5: don't want that release. They wrote this thing so quickly 543 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 5: that they cited the wrong section. So you know what 544 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 5: that means. It means that it doesn't really bestow any 545 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 5: real legal authority on the Attorney General to redact those materials. 546 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: This is a. 547 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: Very very good dissertation here from Speaker Johnson about how 548 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: we don't will release the files, release the obsceeen files, 549 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: and of course you and I want that done, but 550 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: there's got to be some level of protection here, and 551 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: we're not engaged in this. We're engaged in this fanatical move. 552 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: We're not engaged in a rational move. When you hear 553 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: him talk, what is the democratic argument, screw those women? Well, right, 554 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: we're not talking about allowing men in women's locker rooms. 555 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: That's when they say screw those women. No, no, no, we're 556 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: not talking about men and women's sports. That's when they 557 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: say screw those women. No, no, no, we're talking about Oh wow, 558 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: I guess that's a pattern, isn't it. We're talking about 559 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: us being smarter about doing this, and just a breath here, 560 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: we are don't do it via discharge. That's all he's 561 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: asking for now. If he's asking for something else, like 562 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: not to release the files, and then I would tell 563 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: Speaker Johnson to go to help, that doesn't seem to 564 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: be what he's asking for in any way, and. 565 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 5: I would compel the DOJ to release that stuff into 566 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 5: the public. Every single person in this room knows that's 567 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 5: wrong and you should stand against it. But that's what 568 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 5: the discharge says. Number four jeopardizes the future federal investigations 569 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 5: of the United States. Why because the discharge only allows 570 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 5: the Attorney General to redact limited portions of records that 571 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 5: could publicly identify individuals who are promised confidentiality. In this scenario, 572 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 5: you're talking about whistleblowers. You're talking about confidential informants who 573 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 5: came forward and gave information and evidence in exchange for 574 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 5: agreed to have their identities not revealed, violating confidentiality. Imagine 575 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 5: the chilling effect that would have on future investigations. Who's 576 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 5: going to want to come forward if they think Congress 577 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 5: can take a political exercise and reveal their identities. Who's 578 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 5: going to come talk to prosecutors. It's very dangerous. It 579 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 5: would deter future whistleblowers and informants, and the release of 580 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 5: that could also publicly reveal the identity by the way 581 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 5: of undercover law enforcement officers who are working in future operations. 582 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 5: Dangerous stuff, and they seem not to care. And by 583 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 5: the way, I'm going to remind you again, we went 584 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 5: to the authors. We asked the authors of discharge to 585 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 5: change this, and they said jump in the Potomac. All right, 586 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 5: number five, I very. 587 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: Much doubt they said jump in the Potomac, but. 588 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 5: You get the meaning national security concerns. Okay. The discharge 589 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 5: requires the Attorney General to release within thirty days quote 590 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 5: classified information to the maximum extent possible. This ignores the 591 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 5: principle that declassification should always rest and always has rested 592 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 5: with the agency that originated the intelligence why so that 593 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 5: they can protect their critical sources and methods. It is 594 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 5: incredibly dangerous to demand that the officials or employees of 595 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 5: the DOJ declassify materials that originated in other agencies and 596 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 5: intelligence agencies. I could go on, I won't be here 597 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 5: all morning. But there's a lot of problems. There's also 598 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 5: a whole a lot of legal scholars, and I'm among them, 599 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 5: who are concerned that you've got problems with grand jury secrecy. 600 00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 5: We know Rules six e of the Federal Rules of 601 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 5: Criminal Procedure prohibits the release of grand jury materials, but 602 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 5: the way the discharge is drafted, you can make an 603 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,479 Speaker 5: argument that it requires all that to come out, and 604 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 5: that is a serious problem. Grand juries are not adversarial. Okay, 605 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 5: there's no opportunity there for cross examination. You can't disprove evidence. 606 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 5: You can't challenge the evidence in any way. 607 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: I think he's making a sound argument. I have no 608 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: idea if by the time you hear this they voted 609 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: or not and how they voted. So understand that even 610 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: the vote today, which would be discharge petition, is not 611 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: necessarily the Oh my gosh, Republicans are trying to keep 612 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: everybody from getting this data. President Trump has figured out 613 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: that Americans want this. He had the wrong tact, he 614 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: had the wrong approach. He is now engaged in the 615 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: right approach. Let the information be released, and we will 616 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: see names on their Democrat names and Republican names and 617 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: celebrity names and all sorts of names. And just because 618 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: there are names doesn't mean that they are guilty. It 619 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: doesn't mean they were on the island. It doesn't mean 620 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: they were abusing children. Some may have. That's what an 621 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: investigation is for. And why wasn't this done already? Why 622 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: aren't people in jail? This is where we should keep 623 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: our focus. Everything else we're talking about here is just 624 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: about engaging protection and the level of animosity on a 625 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: subject that Americans should be totally unified on. These people 626 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: were abusing young children find them and throw their butts 627 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: in jail. 628 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: What are we waiting for? What are we waiting for? 629 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: And the answer is, I don't know, but hopefully not 630 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: this discharge petition. But today's the day. I'm Tony Katz. 631 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: Ford needs mechanics. And so if you've got a son 632 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: or a daughter who's like I don't know if college 633 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: is for me, and I don't know what I want 634 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: to do, can I suggest whatever trade school or community 635 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: college offers a certifications in learning how to fix I 636 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: don't know, Ford cars or GM cars or whatever, and 637 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: start doing that now, Tony Katz, Tony kats today. 638 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: Good to be with you. 639 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: You've got the CEO Jim Farley stating quite clearly that 640 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: there are five thousand openings for mechanics and the salary 641 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: is one hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year. 642 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 2: Oh did I not mention that? Did I bury the lead? 643 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 2: It's one hundred and twenty grand a year. 644 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: And there's a question about it, even whether or not 645 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: you're going to actually work weekends. 646 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean, if you're working in a car dealership in. 647 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: Other places, if you, by the way, there's nothing wrong 648 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: with saying to yourself. Why am I working in this 649 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: job that I'm in. I know I'm gonna get downsized. 650 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: I know AI is gonna come. AI is never gonna 651 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: come to change your oil. Oh, they're going to build 652 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,959 Speaker 1: some machine to try and do it automatically. You got 653 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: time go go train up right now. For the record, 654 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: I've thought about things like this, like what if I 655 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: left it all behind and the radio and everything else 656 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: and went in distraction that director, This is one of 657 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: those things. There is a huge opportunity here if you're 658 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: willing to sweat, and two younger generations who are listening 659 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: to this show right if you're in your twenties, in 660 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: your teens, to parents who talk to their kids, grandparents 661 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: who talk to their grandkids. If you're willing to sweat, 662 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: if you're willing to get dirty, the world is there 663 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: for you. Mike grow was right from the beginning. 664 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that. 665 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: There won't be some trades that fill up because more 666 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: and more kids have gotten into it. It means that 667 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: if you are ambitious, if you are creative, if you are. 668 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 2: Willing to do the work, there's a place for you. 669 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: This is an unbelievable number according to the Social Security 670 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: Administration one hundred and twenty grand a year, twice the 671 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: averall average annual American income. 672 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 2: So there you go. There you go. 673 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: Find everything I do over at Tony Katz dot com. 674 00:35:59,120 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 2: I'd appreciate it. 675 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: If you be a part of it happening over there tomorrow. 676 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: Everyone could take it.