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Speaker 1: Hammer and Nigel do you believe these characters are weirdos?

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Speaker 2: Is Nigel Jason Hammer right over there with a very

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Speaker 2: special in studio guests, Michael Paul.

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Speaker 3: Hart is with us a member of your city county

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Speaker 3: council here in Indianapolis, Marion County and counselor. We were

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Speaker 3: talking about how the council meeting last night got a

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Speaker 3: little heated. People were yelling back and forth. It was

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Speaker 3: budget night, the bud shoes? Am I throwing any shoes?

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Speaker 3: Am I flip anybody off last night?

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Speaker 4: You know? Shoes, no chairs? Ww wouldn't here last night.

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Speaker 5: So Tony Katz wasn't there, Okay. I just want to

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Speaker 5: make sure that happened.

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Speaker 3: The approved budget one point seven billion dollars, and I

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Speaker 3: keep hearing there was tense debate.

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Speaker 5: Walk me through what happened last night?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was a few things that happened. There's

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Speaker 1: this budget gets broken out into many sections and then

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Speaker 1: you know each counselor will have their passion about whatever

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Speaker 1: that might be. And so I think the bigger part

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Speaker 1: where was the under spend? So we had twenty million

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Speaker 1: dollars on underspend that was aside from the budget. That's

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Speaker 1: where we started talking about things. You started seeing counselors

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Speaker 1: talk where you had ten million dollars go to homelessness

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Speaker 1: initiatives and about fifteen million dollars goes to roads. So

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Speaker 1: you know that all passed, everybody was happy with it.

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Speaker 1: Another fifteen million. A lot of that was I think

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Speaker 1: inspired by the stuff Republicans were doing in the spring.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see a little bit more money on

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Speaker 1: strip patching than we normally see.

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Speaker 4: That was good.

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Speaker 1: Where it started really getting heated is when we started

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Speaker 1: getting into just the initiatives at the mayor's office really

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Speaker 1: wants to see. And then the disagreements with you know,

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Speaker 1: specifically Jesse Brown. He's always adamantly against him, but he's

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Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, take money away from the police, right,

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Speaker 1: thinking that there's too much money going there. Then I've got,

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Speaker 1: you know myself, I put out an amendment to the

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Speaker 1: budget we talked about. I was trying to move some

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Speaker 1: of this money away from the elevation grant programming. So

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Speaker 1: then you had the Democrats come in and really defend

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Speaker 1: the interrupter program.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's really where the mayor and the Democrats are sinking

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Speaker 1: their teeth in where we.

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Speaker 5: See is that Interrupter program working?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so by anyone.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of money behind it. Look are those

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Speaker 5: guys in the red shirts walking around downtown. Oh that's separate.

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Speaker 4: So that's downtown Indie inc.

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Speaker 5: Okay, okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: So there's multiple multiples of those.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of efforts.

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Speaker 1: Basically the Interrupter program or the Elevation Grant program, we've

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Speaker 1: spent forty million over five years, and it's a pot

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Speaker 1: of money that goes to basically a bunch of little

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Speaker 1: grassroot organizations. And I say kitdle just by size because

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Speaker 1: of maybe five, ten, fifteen, But it could be things

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Speaker 1: like money towards a football team. I've seen that in

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Speaker 1: some of these expenses there about one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: different organizations.

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Speaker 4: Or it could be you know, getting guns off the

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Speaker 4: street type of thing.

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Speaker 3: So I know the police they're a little bit on

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Speaker 3: both sides here. They're happy to get the funding new

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Speaker 3: license plate readers and all that kind of stuff. Rick

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Speaker 3: Schneider talked about that, the FOP president. But in the

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Speaker 3: same breath they also say, but look at what's going

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Speaker 3: on in Marion County. We're only twenty one twenty two

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Speaker 3: percent of the budget. What else is stuff going to

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Speaker 3: taking roads and some other things out of the equation here,

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Speaker 3: counselor what are some of the crap things that we're

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Speaker 3: spending money on that unfortunately are going to be going through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean you touch on a big part

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Speaker 1: of it, right, IMPD, Public Safety, they get a bunch

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Speaker 1: of it. But it's these elevation grants, it's the homeless initiatives,

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Speaker 1: it's house repair funds.

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Speaker 4: There's a bunch of little.

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Speaker 3: Bios don't work because people hear that and they think, well,

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Speaker 3: I want the homeless to get help, and I want

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Speaker 3: people to have their homes fixed up, fixed up?

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Speaker 5: Why is it bad?

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Speaker 1: So because the wet we're not actually solving any of

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Speaker 1: the problems. And that's one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: kept on pulling out last night is that I tell everybody,

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Speaker 1: go to Smartendi, you go to the data site, and

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Speaker 1: I've got a whole page on there that shows homelessness

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Speaker 1: hasn't changed in decades.

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Speaker 4: We've kept the same amount of people.

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Speaker 1: Aggravated assaults haven't gone down in decades. And those are

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Speaker 1: the things that people see, they experience every day when

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Speaker 1: people are coming to the council, they're asking for stuff like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how about we make economic insent or investments in my

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Speaker 1: side of town which would be outside of the downtown area.

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Speaker 4: Or how about you just clean up?

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Speaker 1: How about a street sweeper comes through every Now that

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Speaker 1: those are the things that people ask us for. But

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Speaker 1: then you see, you know, all these random programming dollars

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Speaker 1: like I mentioned football teams or things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: that they think is reducing crime. But when you actually

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Speaker 1: step back and look at the data, they'll they'll match

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Speaker 1: on national trends. Right, So if you look at homicides

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Speaker 1: and major violent crimes nationally, they're down thirty percent. They're

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Speaker 1: down thirty percent in Napolos. But when you look at,

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Speaker 1: like I said, aggravated assaults, we're seeing seventy five hundred

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Speaker 1: of those a year, which is up tremendously.

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Speaker 2: Don't hear about that in the media, now, don't hear

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Speaker 2: that coming out of hog Set's office.

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Speaker 3: And I always hear that, oh, homicides are down, but

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Speaker 3: they never tell you from where, and where is usually

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Speaker 3: the record level that the same people were responsible for

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 4: And that's that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that twenty twenty twenty twenty, they are down from that,

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Speaker 1: you know a few years back. But this, this aggravated

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Speaker 1: assault thing is what everybody should be paying attention to,

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Speaker 1: because I'm talking my data. Go first time I heard

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Speaker 1: it ninety five, and you go from nineteen ninety five

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Speaker 1: until now, and there was you probably had you know,

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Speaker 1: forty five hundred five to less than five thousand, but

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Speaker 1: now you're we're averaging seven thousand aggravator and that's you know,

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Speaker 1: gun like gunshots or knife stabbings or you.

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Speaker 4: Know, hit with a bat, things like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, then I would assume that the Crime Committee would

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Speaker 3: be meeting on the regular counselor to come up with

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Speaker 3: ways to make Indy safer. But it's been brought to

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Speaker 3: my attention that they don't like to meet. They cancel

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Speaker 3: a lot of meetings, and when you do have meetings,

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Speaker 3: they don't want to debate anything.

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Speaker 1: You're spot on. I mean, we we canceled too, not

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Speaker 1: we as a the chairmand canceled. I'm asking that they happened.

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Speaker 1: But the last couple we had they were just all budgetary,

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Speaker 1: so it was listening to the presentations and the last

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Speaker 1: one was just approving it. So it was a really

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Speaker 1: short meeting. We never get in the business of.

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Speaker 4: Actually creating ideas or listening.

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Speaker 1: To people who are who have new ideas to try

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Speaker 1: and come up with solutions of these problems.

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Speaker 3: That sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: It does like the Safety Committee of the Council. Well,

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Speaker 3: we don't really get into ways to make things safe.

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Speaker 2: Let me just read from you the work from WIBC

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Speaker 2: dot com and you tell me exactly kind of what

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Speaker 2: this means. Republicans accused Democrats of cutting off debate. The

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Speaker 2: tensions boiled over when Democrats moved to quote call the

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Speaker 2: question a procedural step that ends debate and forces of vote.

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Speaker 5: Do you know what I'm This is.

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Speaker 4: South of millions exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: So this is where it all kind of came to

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Speaker 2: a head.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and yeah, part of it. There was a few

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Speaker 1: times it kind of escalated. That was So what happens

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Speaker 1: is everybody generally wants to explain their rationale for whether

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Speaker 1: they're voting or not voting for the budget. And we

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Speaker 1: had gotten through maybe eighteen of the counselors and Ron

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Speaker 1: Gibson counselor Gibson says, I want to call it a question.

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Speaker 1: So what that means is that we have to stop

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Speaker 1: what we're doing, and then everybody votes. All the counselors vote,

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Speaker 1: all right, we're just going to stop talking about this proposal.

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Speaker 4: This proposal was the full.

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Speaker 1: Budget, and so then there were still people that wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk. Even Democrats wanted to talk, and the majority

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Speaker 1: of the Democrats because Republicans said no, we're not calling

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Speaker 1: a question, they said, yes, called a question, meaning stop

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Speaker 1: the debate. So we then have to then force a

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Speaker 1: vote on the budget.

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Speaker 2: Did he have dinner plans? Liked? He needed to get

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Speaker 2: out of there a little early, right, And.

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Speaker 3: It feels like this was an important night at the

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Speaker 3: council when you're rolling out the budget and if you're

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Speaker 3: calling for no more chat on the budget, it seems

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Speaker 3: a little counterproductive.

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Speaker 1: It's a one hundred percent counterproductive. That is the most

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Speaker 1: important thing that we do as counselors is pass this budget.

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Speaker 1: And they I mean, he put up the idea, right,

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Speaker 1: and then he had a majority of counselors back in

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Speaker 1: them and say, yeah, we're good. The public doesn't need

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Speaker 1: to know your opinion.

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Speaker 3: Has there been any conversations going back to the crime thing,

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Speaker 3: because I think that's such a hot topic in the

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Speaker 3: city right now. The last time you were in studio,

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Speaker 3: we talked about how they decided to say no more

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Speaker 3: debate on crime. Since then, we've had five homicides in

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Speaker 3: a twenty four hour period.

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Speaker 5: We've been on the.

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Speaker 3: National stage for a number of reasons. You know, the

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Speaker 3: sanchest thing has so many different layers to it.

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Speaker 2: The guy that was arrested ninety nine times, that stabbed

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Speaker 2: the person right at the gas station that made national headlines.

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Speaker 3: Any other conversations taking place, do they want to address

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Speaker 3: this at all?

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Speaker 4: And the committee level, I have not seen.

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Speaker 1: So what you get when you have every of these

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Speaker 1: big meetings like we had last night every Monday, you

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Speaker 1: get an introduction of proposals and the introductions that we're

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Speaker 1: coming in for this coming month, they're all appointments, So

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Speaker 1: we're just reappointing people to boards that exist. There's no

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Speaker 1: new proposal that says this is what we're going to

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Speaker 1: do to start making something safer. The proposal that was

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Speaker 1: tabled for the curfew violations about the pet fines and penalties,

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Speaker 1: that hasn't come back up yet, So we're not going

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Speaker 1: to have that in committee this next month. There's unless

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Speaker 1: he has, you know, some special guest that he wants

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Speaker 1: to invite and put on the agenda, him being Leroy

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Speaker 1: Robinson that the chairman, Unless he puts that on the agenda,

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Speaker 1: and we get that a week beforehand. Right now, there's

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Speaker 1: there's just an appointment to a board for that committee.

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Speaker 3: You know, Republicans and Democrats will have different points of view,

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Speaker 3: and Jesse Brown is the socialist and he's got his own.

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, do your Democrat colleagues on

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Speaker 3: the council feel like crime is not that big of

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Speaker 3: a deal in Indianapolis? Are they okay with it? Do

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Speaker 3: they think people like us are making too much of

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Speaker 3: a big deal of it. When we say that our

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Speaker 3: homicide rate per capital is higher than Chicago's.

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Speaker 1: They quote that thirty percent number over That's all you

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Speaker 1: hear out of them is, well, it's down thirty percent.

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Speaker 1: And what they're talking about is homicide. And what I

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Speaker 1: try to remind and I really got into it last night,

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Speaker 1: when tensions start to rise, is you look at these

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Speaker 1: other numbers and that is indicative of what's actually happening,

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Speaker 1: not in just the downtown in the rest of Indianapolis.

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Speaker 4: And then they justify means.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we got this study going on, we're doing that,

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Speaker 1: We're doing this, and it's but it's the facts are

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Speaker 1: showing it's not getting any better. You have all the

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Speaker 1: stuff on the news every day, and they're not just

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Speaker 1: saying it because they want to say it, but they

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Speaker 1: justify it with some thirty percent reduction number that they

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Speaker 1: just pair it over and over again.

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Speaker 3: Michael Paul Hart is our guest. A city county council

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Speaker 3: meeting was last night. The city approves one point seven

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Speaker 3: billion dollar twenty twenty six budget. Last thing here before

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Speaker 3: we let you go, what the hell is an urban forest?

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Speaker 3: Because I heard you were rolling out some plan for

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Speaker 3: urban forests last night and Nidge to me, this sounds

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Speaker 3: like something from the Piedman catalog. In Seinfeld, there's the

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Speaker 3: urban Sombrero, there's the urban forests.

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Speaker 5: What is this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what it is is, essentially, there's been a

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Speaker 1: group coming to the city council for years, every single

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Speaker 1: month and they're looking to preserve basically forests that exists

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Speaker 1: within the county. And I happen to have one within

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Speaker 1: my district that's one hundred acres and older than America, okay,

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Speaker 1: And to me, it's a community asset that it's privately

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Speaker 1: owned right now, the folks want to sell it, and

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Speaker 1: I see a better use for it being a nature preserve, right,

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Speaker 1: but it also gets to referred to as an urban forest. Well,

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Speaker 1: what I did is I put out a proposal to say,

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Speaker 1: all right, well that the Democrats have been saying for

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Speaker 1: years too that they want to support these urban forest

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Speaker 1: nature preserves things of that nature. I said, well, let's

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Speaker 1: take two million dollars from the elevation grant program that

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Speaker 1: I don't think is working because crime is not going down,

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Speaker 1: and let's move two million to then purchase one of

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Speaker 1: these forests. So that way we can have community have

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Speaker 1: a community asset that I know, if we spend two

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Speaker 1: million dollars a tax payer dollars, we at least have

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Speaker 1: a nature preserve that people can go use, that can

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Speaker 1: help attract housing development, that can bring economic development to

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Speaker 1: the East Side. And that was the intent behind it.

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Speaker 1: The second intent was to show that we can amend

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Speaker 1: this budget, which in six years nobody's put forth an

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Speaker 1: amendment to the budget. Everybody says, oh, it's too hard,

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Speaker 1: it's too hard. I said, well, here's an example, here's

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Speaker 1: how it's done. And then it put them in a

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Speaker 1: hard spot because they've been wanting to put money towards

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Speaker 1: the forest, but they had to say no to all

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Speaker 1: the forest people because they want to up go ahead

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Speaker 1: and keep funding these programs.

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Speaker 2: First, what if so somebody sells that property and then

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Speaker 2: somebody could come in there and just start building, you know,

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Speaker 2: high rise apartments and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: They have to go through the zone process and all that,

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Speaker 1: but it mostly will be industrial type of stuff.

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Speaker 5: But it's interesting though.

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Speaker 3: You kind of put the ball in the court of

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Speaker 3: the Democrats, who are usually all in on nature and

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Speaker 3: forest and things of that nature, and you put them

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Speaker 3: in a position to give them a middle finger. Pretty much, Okay,

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Speaker 3: well done, Urban Forest. It does sound like though, like

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Speaker 3: an Enya cover band, doesn't like if you're going to

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Speaker 3: some like festival a tribute to Enya? Urban Forest? What's

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Speaker 3: coming up on your docket here? What are some things

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Speaker 3: we can keep an eye on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it's Smart India right now. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've got an event next week on the fifteenth down

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Speaker 1: in frank or down in Fountain Square where I've got

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Speaker 1: folks who are doing housing and homelessness prevention in the community,

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Speaker 1: that are leading that aren't using city dollars to get

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Speaker 1: it done. And so there's for those folks that are

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Speaker 1: going to talk to us for ninety minutes, We're going

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Speaker 1: to record it.

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Speaker 4: We're having a great group.

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Speaker 1: Out there just to bring these ideas, because these are

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Speaker 1: the same folks I've tried to bring to committee that

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Speaker 1: committee chairs won't have. So I said, I'll host my

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Speaker 1: own thing in the public and try and generate some

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Speaker 1: ideas from the good folks of Indianapolis.

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Speaker 3: It seems like a lot of these committee chairs don't

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Speaker 3: want to talk about things like you're there where, But

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Speaker 3: just the vibe I'm getting seems like a lot of

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Speaker 3: these committee chairs would rather be doing literally anything else

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Speaker 3: other than sharing a committee.

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Speaker 4: Let's follow the script for them, that's the problem.

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Speaker 5: Michael Paul Hart, thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: My pleasure,