1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: It dominated the news for just about the entire month 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: of February and then poof, we stopped hearing all about it. 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Nancy Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's mother, and what 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: happened to her. Here's a reminder from Savannah Guthrie. 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: We received your message and we understand. 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: We beg you now to return our mother to us 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: so that we can celebrate with her. Every couple days 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: there was a new video being released by Savannah Guthrie 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: regarding her mother and joining us in the WIBC studios, 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: we have former FBI Special Agent Corey Grass, who spent 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: twenty years in counterintelligence, counter terrorism and also hostage negotiations. Now, Corey, 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: before we get started, where can people find you? 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 3: The easiest place to find is on Facebook. Just Corey Grass, 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 3: co Roy gr Ass like you know or apex Defend 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 3: as a company I also cow and consult with. 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: So there's a massive recall campaign going on right now 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: against the PMA County Sheriff Chris Nanos, who who is 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: leading the disappearance investigation of Nancy Guthrie. So with all 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: of your experience, let's start with what is the relationship 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: and how does the FBI coordinate with the sheriff's department 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: in a case like this. 22 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: These kind of cases are exactly why relationships are built 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: in advance, because when things are going poorly and stressed out, 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: that's the best time to have good friends or good 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 3: contacts with those agencies. And I think I mentioned a 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: little bit earlier today, but the FBI is consulting on 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: negotiations Houston negotiations. Is there as a role as a negotiator, again, 28 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 3: is just to consult. We typically don't have a large 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: contendency of negotiators in each field office. Indianapolis had five 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: back in my day to cover the entire state, So 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: we were there to assist the state and locals, or 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 3: we could theoretically run a bigger one like this if 33 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: they requested the help. So it is interesting to watch 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: personalities both inside the FBI and outside the FBI to 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: see how they affect the investigation. It seems like the 36 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 3: sheriff out there is very actively involved in very much 37 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: wants to be in the front and center of the 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: entire case. 39 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 4: That seems to kind of go a little bit against 40 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 4: I think what most people think. I think most people 41 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 4: think that when the FBI gets involved into something that 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 4: the FBI is running the show. 43 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 5: And we see that in movies too. 44 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 4: You see it where the local law enforcement and the 45 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 4: FBI kind of butt heads and this is my show. Now, 46 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 4: this is my show. But what you're saying is usually 47 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 4: the FBI takes a back seat. 48 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 3: I would say usually, but there and it varies on 49 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: the case. There probably are times where those things happen. 50 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: But yeah, people watch too many movies and think that 51 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 3: the FBI is certain things a certain way, and I 52 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: tried to mend those relationships along the way. Always the 53 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 3: primary negotiator is a person you see on the TV, 54 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: on the phone, you know, make negotiation and in the 55 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 3: cool role, I always told local police department, especially once 56 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: I worked for previously that I had worked with in 57 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: my job in the FBI, that I could be the 58 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: primary negotiator for them, or I could go with them 59 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: pizza at anything in between. There I could coach on 60 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 3: the side with another headset on. The FBI does a 61 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 3: lot of good bureaucratic stuff, unfortunately, And one thing they 62 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 3: do is they have a database called HOBUS, which is 63 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 3: the Hostage and Barricaded Subject Stats, and they collate every 64 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: case across the country into a database as much as 65 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: they can get it fed to them by the locals. 66 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 3: And so, for example, as this was dragging on out there, 67 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: they can go to that database and say, if it 68 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 3: lasts this long, what are the odds is going to 69 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: end in a positive way if we had if we 70 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: actually find a suspect they're negotiating with, what percentage of 71 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 3: the helblets go well, for use the clergy member, what 72 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: if it goes to if we let them talk to 73 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: a family member, shoul we record a conversation just to 74 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: let them hear their family member. So they use those 75 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: stats to help consult these cases because they're very unique 76 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: to that department usually, but naturally they occur more often. 77 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: So a few weeks ago, Jim and I were talking 78 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: about this and the ransom dollar amount made a huge 79 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: leap within a matter of days. And you're saying that, yeah, 80 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: that was probably consulting from the FBI. 81 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I said Jim a text that day, had 82 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: I heard them on the air listening you guys every day. 83 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: By the way, I was the one. I was going 84 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: to bring Jim a black robot today because I was 85 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: listing yesterday. But Amazon's robots, couldn't get my robot here 86 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: and tip for Jim so I could get. 87 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 5: Here in our house. 88 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, not mine anyway. 89 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: It seems to me, And I don't have any inside information. 90 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: I just I read what you guys reading the media, 91 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 3: But it seems like this case was pretty handled initially 92 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: by the suspect, pretty amateurly, based on the weapon they 93 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: were displaying on their waistband, the way they carried it, 94 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: the type of holster if you've seen the video, they 95 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: grab some brush from a bush or something, tried to 96 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: cover the camera. 97 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 5: Just a lot of weird things. 98 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: I got the impression that the negotiation for the ransom 99 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: was probably a hoax from people because they negotiated up. 100 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: It seems like the bad guys did and that's not 101 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: normal in most business negotiations or hostages. So a lot 102 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: of things seem weird about it. The fact that she 103 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: was that old and they found blood outside, Like why 104 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: would that be necessary? It doesn't seem like there's an 105 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: agenda for the bad guys at this point. They don't 106 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: seem to be legitimately asking for money. Nobody's come out 107 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 3: with media stuff. Don't you know, bash her daughter? 108 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 5: It seems odd so what's usually. 109 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: So let's say that this is an example because this 110 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 4: was a really high profile case, and let's say that 111 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 4: this was an example where the FBI kind of went 112 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 4: in there and took the lead on that. 113 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 5: What is usually? What are some of the first things 114 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 5: that the FBI does in a case like this. 115 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 3: The FBI has wonderful technology and manpower that they can 116 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: bring in from the DC area or even you know, 117 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: task force people can come in. They want to work 118 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 3: hand in hand with that local department because they know 119 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 3: the area, they know the people. They definitely start canvassing 120 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 3: the area for other people's outdoor cameras, interviewing people in 121 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: case they saw suspicious things or notice anything before or 122 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: after if anything in their family has changed. They will 123 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: just drill down in the weeds on anything they can find, 124 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: and in this case it was doorbell camera videos and things. 125 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 3: And the FBI has really good technology because my understanding 126 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: was that camera's removed, which allowed the FBI to find 127 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: the hidden video that showed the suspect. 128 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: Did it strike you as peculiar that you had cash 129 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: to tell the director of the FBI go out there, 130 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: or was that just because it was a high profile case. 131 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: Probably because of the high profile case. I mean, it's 132 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 3: you know, and I don't know exact laws and Indiana 133 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: or what the FBI's policy was, but typically someone has 134 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: to be missing there around here locally for twenty four hours, 135 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: or there can be some other weird circumstances. But I 136 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: was jokingly said, you know, if the governor's daughter was kidnapped, 137 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 3: it would change the policy pretty quickly. 138 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: On Yeah, what it was you talked a little bit about, 139 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 4: you know, some of the first things that the FBI 140 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 4: does when they go in there in a specific high 141 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 4: profile case like this, what are other what are other 142 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 4: similarities that you've seen or are there any similarities that 143 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 4: you've seen in this case with Nancy Guthrie that are 144 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 4: similar to other cases that you've worked on. 145 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 3: It seems dissimilar in the way that it's so chaotic. 146 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 3: It just doesn't Again this point, we're seven ish weeks 147 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: in and I can't tell you who took her, what 148 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: they're asking for doesn't seem like there's a lot of 149 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: and again a lot of times investigators will control that 150 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 3: information and keep it in house, and there's a purpose 151 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: for that. They're you know, trying to test certain things 152 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: or trying to to fiddle out what's going on. But 153 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 3: in this case, there doesn' seem to be. I couldn't 154 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: tell you who did it, why, nobody's asking for money, 155 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: no one's making any sort of demands of the family. 156 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: You'd mentioned a while back on the air that you 157 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: thought the FBI was coaching the family on what to 158 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: say it. Dude, that's absolutely true. I would guess that's 159 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 3: what we did in cases that I worked for sure. 160 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: What to say on the video is what to wear, 161 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: how to address the bad guys, the keywords of youth 162 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 3: to try and get a response of some sort. 163 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Corey Grass is joining US former FBI special agents twenty 164 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: years in counterintelligence and also counter terrorism and hostage negotiations. 165 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: So in regardless of the digital or. 166 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: Physical evidence, you know you've got the surveillance footage, the DNA, 167 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: cell phone, internet data, what is the most relevant, What 168 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: is the most important in an investigation, Anything. 169 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: That gives you the break you need to start going 170 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: after the bad guys. So it seems like heay of us. Yes, 171 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: anything you can get your hands on it is a 172 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: big plus. The DNA in this case, what I've read 173 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 3: so far, it didn't seem be very helpful at all. 174 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: I mean, they found her blood outside. I think it 175 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 3: was co mixed with somewhere else, but it came back 176 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: to be somebody who wasn't relevant. I've seen they did 177 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: a couple of detainees or arrest and then they ran 178 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: nois on the ground. They did search warrants and it 179 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: sounds like those people are not involved as well. Based 180 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: on what they're releasing. That's that's maybe not factual, but 181 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: that's what they're releasing, So I don't I think the 182 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: digital evidence is fantastic. At least people around the country 183 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: have seen the video of someone in the dark with 184 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: a night vision and what they're wearing, what they look like, 185 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 3: But that's not much to go on. 186 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 4: How long does the FBI stay involved in a case 187 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 4: like this, because you just mentioned that we're about seven 188 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 4: weeks or so into this and it seems like it 189 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 4: seems like things are winding down here. What does that 190 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 4: look like? You didn't get the resolution you wanted, which 191 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 4: is any resolution at all. Everything is still unknown. What 192 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: is the FBI's involvement, And keep in mind this is 193 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 4: a high profile case, So in a high profile case 194 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 4: like this, what are they doing right like right now. 195 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: I would say there early on, especially they're chasing down leads, 196 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,679 Speaker 3: so you'll get fifty percent the leads will be insane, 197 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 3: not make any sense, and fifty percent will be legitimately 198 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: need to be tracked down. So a lot of times 199 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 3: an agent will go with the local police officer and 200 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: start conducting. Somebody call the hotline and say I think 201 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: I have information. 202 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 5: Here's why. 203 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 3: They'll take that basic information down an operational center whereby 204 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 3: sitting together, and then they'll deploy you out to go 205 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 3: talk to those people and you could connect an interview 206 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: and seem like this seems legit and they have something 207 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 3: we need to fall up on, or this doesn't make 208 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: sense and it's going to go in a different file 209 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: that we're not going to follow up on. So that 210 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: was probably very heavily done early on. I would guess 211 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 3: it's starting to taper off now just based on the 212 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 3: amount of information they have. Unless there's things that are 213 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: falling up we don't know about, it doesn't take the 214 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 3: man power to do that. I actually had one here 215 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 3: of Indianapolis. It lasted fourteen months and it kind of 216 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: with the reverse order. It started small because isis had 217 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: our subject from Indiana overseas demanded the family not involved 218 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 3: the governments who had to quietly help. But by the 219 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: end Isis put the information out on national media. So 220 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: then Chim Jumpkins, every politician got involved, every boss in 221 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 3: the FEI I got involved. It really changed the footprint 222 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: of how we were handling it and how we had 223 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 3: to tell, how we had to coach our bosses and 224 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: the politicians not say certain things because we've been telling 225 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: Isis for twelve months that we had not involved the government. 226 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 4: Yet. 227 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: When something like this happens, do you have an initial 228 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: reaction or a gut instinct of who you know? 229 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 2: Who did it? 230 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 3: I don't know enough in this case, I don't know 231 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: enough about I mean, she's high profile, so I think 232 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: the first logical step would be is probably involved with 233 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: their daughter's notoriety. 234 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: But in any case, do you have an initial gut 235 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: reaction like, oh boy, this person is sus. 236 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: A lot of times it's somebody the family are involved 237 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: that you know, a lot of times there's very few 238 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: stranger inductions to just snatch people off the street. It 239 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: does happen, but it's very seldom, And I'm the Lauren Spira, 240 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: CA that blowing to when she went missing was an 241 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 3: FBI negotiator, Dan, And the only thing I was involved 242 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: in that case on was we had a hoax called 243 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: Mill the night saying somebody had her, and we came 244 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: into the local police department set with him, made the 245 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: phone calls, did the work, and it very quickly appeared 246 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: to be fake. 247 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 4: Now, it's interesting you mentioned the Lauren Spear case out 248 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 4: of Bloomington, which I believe is still completely unresolved, and 249 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 4: obviously Nancy Guthrie's case is unresolved. How many instances of 250 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 4: either kidnapping or missing persons like this like Ballpark, what 251 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 4: percentage do you get resolution on and what percentage just 252 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 4: never end up getting resolved? 253 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 3: Well, a good guest like myself would have gone to 254 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 3: the Hope stats and had that answer for you, But 255 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 3: I'm not sure re percentage wise, and kind of your 256 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: last question I'll get back to on the Spirit case. 257 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: I know for sure Bloomington Pedia is still actively involved 258 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: in working in that case, maybe not as heavily as 259 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: they were early on, but I still contact those guys 260 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: a lot. 261 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 5: And how I mean that case is well over ten 262 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 5: years old. 263 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 4: Well, so what is actively involved mean Does that means 264 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 4: there's somebody a guy that's working on it and that's 265 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 4: his job where he's doing it every day, or is 266 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: it something where you spend a little bit of your 267 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 4: time that. 268 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: Week working on it. 269 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 4: What does actively involved mean, especially such a cold case, like. 270 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: I think for a while it was people working, a 271 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: few guys working it all the time. I think now 272 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: it's down to a few guys that work it often, 273 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 3: not all that it's not their full time job, but 274 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: I think there are several people still actively involved in 275 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 3: fallowing up on things going on that case. 276 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: We're going to continue on with Corey Grass, former FBI 277 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: special agent coming up. 278 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: You're listening to ninety three WYBC. 279 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to Casey and Jim on ninety three WYBC 280 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: and we're joined in the studio by former FBI Special 281 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: Agent Corey Grass, who spent twenty years in counterintelligence, counter 282 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: terrorism and also hostage negotiations. We've been focusing on the 283 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie case and do the public tips in the 284 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: neighborhood footage that's often sought out, How do you guys 285 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: prioritize or verify the tips, like what is worthy and 286 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: what is a waste of time. 287 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: Generally, once they find those videos or the stories from neighbors, 288 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: they will go out and verify and do further interviews 289 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: and follow up on it. So again, oftentime, you're looking 290 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 3: for a plate number, obviously pinging cell phone towers and 291 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 3: see what numbers hitting that area. There's just so much 292 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 3: technology in so many different ways to follow up on it. 293 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: But you're looking for somebody that's more concrete. You have 294 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 3: the picture of this guy that from her case, and 295 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 3: they immediately identified the holster came from Walmart. It was 296 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: a Walmart version of the backpacks Walmart. So those kind 297 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 3: of things help. Maybe they want to. I'm sure they 298 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: went to the most local Walmart. It's first thing to say, hey, 299 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: can you identify this person's saying? And they maybe Spider Weather. 300 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: We have to say there's more that we haven't hear 301 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 3: anything about it since. 302 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 5: But let's say it's a call in tip. 303 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 4: It's a call in tip and somebody's like, I think 304 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 4: it's Joe Schmoe over here at one twenty three Main Street. 305 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 4: I'm sure there's tons of those that come in with 306 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 4: just random names. How do you sort through all those? 307 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 4: Or do you have to like actually follow up with 308 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 4: every call in tip when they give you a name, 309 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 4: or hey, I saw this weirdo walking down Highway forty 310 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 4: and I think it's him. 311 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 3: You hut the nail on the head. It's all those things, 312 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: by the way. Ideally the personal working to phones. And 313 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 3: I did this as a new agent at Quantica. Weik 314 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 3: about Unico earlier as a new agent. It was the 315 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 3: highway sniper or interstate sniper case was going on when 316 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: I was there, and they were burning their resources, the 317 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 3: local resources and the FBI resources. So they came to 318 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 3: off our new classes a Quantico as a new agent 319 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: and said, your class will set the phone lines for 320 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: a week and take these tips in. And you hope 321 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 3: that people taking those tips and ask those kind of questions. 322 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 3: You know, they say it's Joe Shmoe and you say, 323 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 3: why do you think it's Joe Shmoe? And if they 324 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 3: think they seem irrational, or if they say it's my 325 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: former brother in law Josh Moo told me. 326 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 5: He did it. 327 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 3: Okay, well, now we've got a little more Valida, we'll 328 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: kind of prioritize that one. But again, oftentimes you can 329 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: tell from talking to someone if it doesn't really make sense. 330 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: You gotta they still fall up on those. By the way, 331 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: they will follow up on every single lead, no matter 332 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 3: how insane it seems, because every once in a while, 333 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: that's the one that's going to set the case. 334 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: You mentioned burning through resources. 335 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: How long will the FBI stay with the case like this, 336 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: Like how long are you? 337 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: I would think definitely not Again, well, they have one 338 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 3: hundred agents sitting in a joint operations center with that 339 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: local sheriff's front. 340 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 5: No, but they will. 341 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 3: They will always have an open file on that and 342 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 3: people assigned to it as because that ways things come 343 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: in and they will It'll be in bunches or are 344 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: just sporadic things over the next weeks, months, years, there 345 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 3: will be somebody assigned to that. 346 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 4: What is how does an FBI decide? How does how 347 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 4: does the FBI decide when they should into involved in 348 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 4: a case and when they shouldn't, Like are there certain 349 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: things that have to happen that trigger Okay, now this 350 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 4: has happened, Now the FBI gets involved. 351 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 3: When I was there, the general rule of thumb was 352 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 3: they need to be gone for twenty four hours or 353 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: have crossed. We had the information they'd cross state lines. 354 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: It was kind of a that's that's a basic trigger. 355 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: But like I kind of joked earlier, if you know, 356 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 3: if the yeah, if Ialue football coach's daughter went missing, 357 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 3: it would totally change the scenario versus a normal It 358 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: just just the way of life. It's just prioritized things 359 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 3: when people have the ability to put pressure on and 360 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: it's unfair, but it's just again, they there's general rules 361 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: they follow and they do get involved in a lot 362 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: of them. 363 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: But do you have an instinct regarding the Nancy Groth 364 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: your case? Who done it? 365 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: I a total shot in the dark. This is a 366 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: total guest, but I think it probably seems like someone's 367 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: trying to break into the house and she was there. 368 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: I don't think it was planned. They didn't because they 369 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: haven't asked for anything since. Then again, she again it 370 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: sounds crazy to put it bluntly, but she is not 371 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: the ideal person that kidnapped. She needed medication, she was 372 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 3: able to get around. Yeah, it's a lot of work. Yeah, 373 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: and it doesn't seem to be a plan they had 374 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: in mind. Doesn't appear to be that way. 375 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to ask you some FBI type questions, 376 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: and uh, do you guys get a car. 377 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 3: Yes, agents have a take home car. They can drive 378 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: to and from work on the most direct path. Only 379 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: there are heavy, heavy consequences for breaking those rules, heavy consequence. 380 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: So you're not doing sdis SDRs, SDRs, surveillance detection roots. 381 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: You can do that. Yes, and yes, she's done her homework. 382 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 3: I feel nervous all of a sudden, she's the she 383 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 3: schooled herself. She's watching movies too. 384 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 385 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: What about pay? 386 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 3: It's pretty darn good pay. I mean it's a government pay, 387 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: so it's on a general scale and you get a 388 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: raise every year typically unless there's a freeze or a holdout, 389 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: and you get paid back usually. Uh, they did consider 390 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 3: us essential employees. So when they're shutdowns, what happened? They 391 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: would you keep payh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh they cancel 392 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: your vacation, which they did for me over Christmas ones. 393 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: They canceled my vacation, they did not pay me and 394 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: I had to be in the office and then they 395 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 3: pay back paid me later. But again it's it's not 396 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 3: fun for weeks. 397 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 4: Does the FBI issue you a firearm? Are you responsible 398 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 4: for getting that? And how much flexibility do you have 399 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 4: in what sort of firearm you carry with you every day. 400 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: Zero flexibility, and they provide all that stuff for you. Actually, 401 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 3: the FBI training is fantastic. I mentioned to Casey earlier, 402 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: but the negotiation training I did thirty years in law enforcement, 403 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: ten as a local and then twenty plus as an agent, 404 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: and the two week class to become certifies an FBI 405 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 3: negotiator was the best facilities, The training, the food to people. 406 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 3: They brought to international people, international people from overseas. I've 407 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: had four for that class. Some big police departments got 408 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: to send people in for providing those hobostats to us. 409 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 3: It was just I'm met great people, The scenarios were great, 410 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: and I went out and used it and feels fantastic. 411 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: So did your training in Quantico? 412 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and FBI training all around. The firearms training 413 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 3: is amazing when you're there for those sixteen or eighteen 414 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: weeks early on, it's amazing. The technology I used to 415 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: help people become better shooters, or become decent shooters at least. 416 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: And again, they provide a clock firearm they're testing. Local 417 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: police departments around the country will pick weapons and ammunition 418 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: and things like that based on FBI testing. They are 419 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: very very good again it being like college professor's level 420 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: of technology. 421 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: And use your thoughts of the announcement that cash Ptel 422 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: is gonna have some of the FBI agents train or 423 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: at least do a seminar with the UFC fighters. 424 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: And it's awesome. 425 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: Do you so? Did Jim and I? A lot of 426 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: people lovell that's ridiculous. 427 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 3: There's always showmanship everything. That gun was doing the showmanship 428 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. But it's awesome because you'll 429 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 3: need it. I think a lot of people have never 430 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: been punched in the face once ever, and they don't 431 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: realize you're gonna get punched in the face. Someone's gonna 432 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 3: spit at you, someone's gonna call you a name. We 433 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: boxed when I was there. Uh, the Dea trains at 434 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: another facility right there, a quantic and everybody else goes 435 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: to a different place. But the DA box more than we did. 436 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 3: But I'd been in plenty of scuffles, I'd been shot at, 437 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: I'd had been spit on, I'd been but man, minute 438 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: guy as big as me beating the crap out of you. 439 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 5: It's tough. 440 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: It scares you, it teaches you how to handle it. 441 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 3: In the field, it's it's it's awesome and not fund 442 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: it's the same. I would go back and choose do 443 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: it right now, but it's it's great training. So I 444 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 3: think the UFC stuff they would teach you a better 445 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: way to fight and protect yourself and not hurt other 446 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 3: people is be. 447 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 4: Great, right, And I would think if I'm either being 448 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 4: recruited to potentially be an FBI special agent or I'm 449 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 4: already one, that just sounds cool. I mean, it's at 450 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 4: the end of the day, being it in the FBI 451 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 4: is still a job, and as the people that run 452 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 4: your job and your bosses, you've got to find ways 453 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 4: to keep people motive, get motivated, and keep people engaged. 454 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 5: And it was my first thinking. 455 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 4: Is oh cool, I get to hang out with the 456 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 4: UFC guys and by the way, learn how to fight too. 457 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 5: That seems like a win win all the way around. 458 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 3: Fantastic for recruiting, because recruiting and law enforce in the 459 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: last twenty or thirty years has gone downhill across the board. 460 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: The FBI learned that the hard way too for years. 461 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 3: When I got hired O two, I applied before nine 462 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 3: to eleven. I got hired after nine eleven. But when 463 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 3: I got hired in O two was right after nine 464 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 3: to eleven, and they had one hundred and twenty five 465 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,959 Speaker 3: thousand applications line final they told us, and I hird 466 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 3: less than a thousand people that year. So now these 467 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 3: days those numbers aren't the same because it's just different 468 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: across And I've made this example for years. If you're 469 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 3: a cyber person and you're just a stud in that arena, 470 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 3: back then you applied the FBI, it took you three 471 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: years to get hired and going to move you across 472 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 3: the country, You have to carry a gun, you gotta 473 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: work odd hours, and the pay is not great for 474 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 3: a cyber person. Unless your family was military agent or 475 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: something was in your heart of hearts, Why would you 476 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: not apply for a local job make getting hired the 477 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 3: next day on the spot, working from home, making double 478 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: the money. Things like UFC will draw certain young people 479 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 3: to the job and say, you know what, it is 480 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 3: kind of cool. I will do that for I worked 481 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: with some guys that came from the tech world and 482 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 3: took ginormous pay cuts to come over the FBI because 483 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 3: they wanted to make a difference. They enjoyed some of 484 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 3: the hands on part and they were really really great people. 485 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: We only have a short moment left, but before you go, 486 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: I want you to tell us that this is Corey 487 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: Grass who's joining us, former FBI special agent, Your Drug 488 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: Dealer Story. 489 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 3: We prepped for the show a little bit. We talked 490 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: about some horrifically bad negotiations that just break your heart, 491 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 3: or unsolved or solved that are terrible. I did have 492 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 3: one in Northwest Indiana once where they called us up 493 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: on a weekend. The only time I missed one of 494 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 3: my kids' birthdays was this one. And it became pretty 495 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: clear after a couple of hours that the vi quote 496 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 3: unquote victim that we were dealing with did not want 497 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 3: us there, only spoke Spanish, may have had some history 498 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 3: in the drug world. His brother got kidnapped. Aus why 499 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 3: we were there. We're there for two or three days 500 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: over our holiday, and we found out because we called 501 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 3: on to what he was saying. We tried to trick 502 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: him into something. He negotiated on his own that night 503 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: without us. He only spoke Spanish, so that was kind 504 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 3: of slowed us download. We had a translator help us. 505 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 3: In the end, he decided he was going to pay 506 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: the bad guys. We against our wishes. You're allowed to 507 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: pay ransom if you want, except a terrorists. You cannot 508 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: provide funds of terrorists. There's a slipper slept there, but 509 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 3: this was a drug case. He decided he was going 510 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 3: to pay the ransom up twenty I think it was 511 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars a. We explained him break clearly, we'll 512 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: try to help you. The bad guys were messing with us, 513 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 3: bring us back and forth to Chicago and just trying to, 514 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 3: you know, give us unrealistic goals and deadlines. But he 515 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,239 Speaker 3: decided to pay the money, and we ended up. We 516 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 3: followed the money. We got us brother back. We did 517 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 3: lose the money went it went into a duplex. We 518 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 3: saw him one to do not we but the FBI 519 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: and the cops all going to a duplex. We got 520 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 3: the brother back. We got a search warrant for the duplex, 521 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: and the Jude wouldn't prove it because it was a 522 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 3: duplex and we didn't see which door it was. So 523 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars walked. But it clearly the quote unquote 524 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: victim did not want us. There was a very strange 525 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 3: conversation for day sitting with a guy at the table 526 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: who does not want to be there with you. 527 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 2: Why would the judge not approve it? 528 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 3: I think the people on the surveyillance didn't see which 529 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: door the guys took the money in. It was a duplex, 530 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 3: which didn't realize probably and it's been this been many 531 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: many years ago. But we told the guy not to 532 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 3: pay it, and he decided to pay it. 533 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: Where can people find you, uh. 534 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: Corey Grass on Facebook or apexdefend dot com. 535 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: All right, we appreciate your time, Thank you so much. 536 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 2: You'll be back next week. 537 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely more FBI stories with our FBI guy, Corey Grass. 538 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: You're listening to ninety three w IBC.