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Speaker 1: All owned by Radio One, and they've all moved together

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Speaker 1: to a new location here at twenty one East New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: No Saint Joseph. I always want to screw that up

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Speaker 1: Saint Joseph Street here on the near north side of Indianapolis.

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Speaker 1: And there have been a number of issues. If you're

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Speaker 1: listening to WIBC today, well certainly on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: entire team. We apologize to you for that. We thank

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Speaker 1: you for your patience because it can't be easy when

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Speaker 1: you know, the shows are kind of coming in and out,

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Speaker 1: the news gets interrupted and whatnot. But it is not

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Speaker 1: for lack of trying and is not for lack of

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Speaker 1: technical expertise, because we've got some of the best people

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Speaker 1: around who are here trying to resolve these issues. So listen.

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Speaker 1: If you don't hear any bumper music, you don't hear

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Speaker 1: any lead ins I know, beginning the gun Guy Show

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Speaker 1: without without big Head DoD and the boom boom boom song.

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Speaker 1: I mean that right there puts us significantly behind the

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Speaker 1: eight ball. But listen, there's a lot of good there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of good things to talk about. We're

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Speaker 1: glad you're with us, and I do I appreciate your

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Speaker 1: patience if you've hung in there and are willing to

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Speaker 1: listen here to the rest of the gun Guy Show,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see how the rest of those things go out.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, we've got some of the very best

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Speaker 1: people working on it, and we'll see how that works out.

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Speaker 1: One thing that is very much in the news on

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Speaker 1: the Second Amendment issues is that starting January first this year,

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Speaker 1: the tax stamp, that is the tax you pay to

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Speaker 1: register and that is through either making or transferring and

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Speaker 1: an NFA item, specifically suppressors or short broiled rifles or

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Speaker 1: short brailed shotguns, the tax went to zero on each

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Speaker 1: of those items. And that's huge news. It's been huge

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Speaker 1: news news since the Great, Big, Beautiful Bill was finalized

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Speaker 1: and passed by Congress and signed into the law by

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Speaker 1: President Trump, because one of the provisions of that bill

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Speaker 1: was to take that tax to zero. Now, a lot

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Speaker 1: of us fought very hard for suppressors and short browed

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Speaker 1: rifles and short brown shotguns which we call SBRs and

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Speaker 1: sbs is to be taken out of the NFA altogether,

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Speaker 1: meaning you wouldn't have to register them. They'd be treated

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Speaker 1: just like any other rifle. Pistol or shotgun, and a

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Speaker 1: suppressor frankly ought to be treated in my mind as

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Speaker 1: an accessory like an optic or a flash hider. In

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Speaker 1: my mind, a suppressor which merely lessens the decibels, lessens

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Speaker 1: the report of the sound of a fire I don't

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Speaker 1: understand why that's even regulated as a firearm at all.

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Speaker 1: If you look up the definition of firearm in the

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Speaker 1: Federal Statutes, it talks about a weapon designed to expel

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Speaker 1: a projectile by means of an explosive and a suppressor,

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Speaker 1: it actually says, and a silencer or firearm muffler being

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Speaker 1: the terminology in vogue back in nineteen thirty four. So

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Speaker 1: it doesn't meet the traditional definition of firearm, but the

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Speaker 1: federal government in nineteen thirty four lumped it in with that.

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Speaker 1: So we wanted those items to be taken out of

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Speaker 1: the NFA altogether. We'd love to see the NFA overturn

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Speaker 1: completely repealed, gone, there's no real legitimate reason for it.

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Speaker 1: But short of that, what we did accomplish, and this

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Speaker 1: is I think, to some degree both a success and

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Speaker 1: a failing of the Republican Congress here last session is

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Speaker 1: at least we got the tax reduced to zero. So

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Speaker 1: you still have to register your suppressor or your short

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Speaker 1: broiled rifle, short barreled shotgun, but you pay zero dollars

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Speaker 1: in tax, and that can that's a big deal. I

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Speaker 1: mean a typical suppressor that I've bought. I've bought suppressors

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Speaker 1: that were in the six or seven hundred dollars range.

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Speaker 1: I've bought suppressors that were more like twelve hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: And so let's round that off or average that out.

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Speaker 1: Let's say about one thousand dollars for a rifle suppressor,

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Speaker 1: a high end quality rifle suppressor. Talking about twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of the cost. Did you add into that by having

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Speaker 1: to pay for your quote unquote tax stamp to have

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Speaker 1: a legal and properly registered suppressor or in addition, again,

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Speaker 1: I've made two SBRs just in the last year, and

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Speaker 1: they tend to go together. Why is that? Well, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to run a suppressor on your rifle, let's

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Speaker 1: say a typical AR fifteen platform, you know to not

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Speaker 1: be an SBR to be legal without a tax or

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Speaker 1: registration under the NFA, a barrel on a rifle needs

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Speaker 1: to be sixteen inches or more. What's less than sixteen inches.

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Speaker 1: That makes it an SBR short browed rifle. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: if you have a sixteen inch barrel on your rifle

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Speaker 1: and then you add a suppressor and a rifle suppressor

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Speaker 1: is going to be six seven inches typically, and some

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Speaker 1: are longer Somemer shorter, you're going to add to that. Well, Now,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you've got a pretty cumbersome, unwieldy firearm.

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Speaker 1: And you run, you run some training, You go through

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Speaker 1: some drills, getting in and out of vehicles, going down hallways,

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Speaker 1: going through doorways, going around corners, going up and down stairwells.

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Speaker 1: A big old long rifle with a big old long

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Speaker 1: suppressor on it is not particularly maneuverable, and it's not

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Speaker 1: very convenient for defending yourself, defending your home, defending your family.

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Speaker 1: So what a lot of us have done over the

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Speaker 1: years is we've said, all right, well, I want to

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Speaker 1: register and SBR so that I can run a suppressor.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times we make and or you know,

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Speaker 1: put together what we call it two stamper. What's it

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Speaker 1: two stamper. Well, with an SBR that's suppressed, it could

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Speaker 1: be a short barreled shotgun that's suppressed. There are other

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Speaker 1: forms of two stampers, but the most common one is

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Speaker 1: a short barreled rifle. The suppressor on it very very common.

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Speaker 1: If you watch with the military runs, I mean the

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Speaker 1: M four in the military, a lot of times you

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Speaker 1: see fourteen and a half inch barrels with a suppressor.

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Speaker 1: Not all the time, but very odd, very very common configuration.

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Speaker 1: Make the barrel a little shorter, makes a little bit

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Speaker 1: less unwieldy, less cumbersome to run. That combination. So it's

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Speaker 1: a big deal that now both registrations of SBRs and

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Speaker 1: registrations and transfers of suppressors, the tax has now gone

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Speaker 1: to zero. That's the good news. It's not so good

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Speaker 1: news were taken out of the NFL together. But what

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Speaker 1: we also have seen, and this was completely predictable, in

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Speaker 1: fact predict dead by me and many others, that the

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Speaker 1: eform system that the ATF runs so that you can

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Speaker 1: register your suppressor, or you can get a registration so

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Speaker 1: as to transfer your suppressor or build your short barrowed

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Speaker 1: rifle or whatever it might be. The e form system

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Speaker 1: has basically crashed over the last forty eight hours or so.

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Speaker 1: And what do I mean by that? And what am

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Speaker 1: I talking about? You're not familiar with this process traditionally,

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what. This is definitely moving to

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Speaker 1: all e forms, that is electronically filed applications to either

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Speaker 1: make or register an NFA item. It is moving to

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Speaker 1: all electronic They will still ATF will still accept paper filings,

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Speaker 1: as to say, but I'm telling you you heard it

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Speaker 1: here first. In another couple of years, you won't even

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Speaker 1: be able to make paper filings. Predict give it five

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Speaker 1: years on the outside. It's all going to be e forms.

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Speaker 1: So what's e forms? Well, you create an account with ATF,

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Speaker 1: and you can electronically file your Form one, which is

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Speaker 1: to make an NFA item, or your Form four, which

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Speaker 1: is to transfer an NFA item. Well, a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks who are excited about a zero tax waited until

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Speaker 1: what twelve oh one am on January one to submit

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Speaker 1: their Form one to build an SBR or for their

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Speaker 1: Form four to transfer a suppressor. And what do you

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Speaker 1: suppose the system did? I saw numbers? And this was

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Speaker 1: released by NSSF that's a National Shooting Sports Foundation, which

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Speaker 1: is the firearm industry trade group, and they're working closely

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Speaker 1: with ATF and I saw a number that said on

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Speaker 1: January first, where ATF typically receives about about fifteen hundred,

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty five hundred Form ones or Form fours or

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Speaker 1: other applications to register NFA items in a day, they

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Speaker 1: typically get in that fifteen hundred and twenty five hundred range.

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Speaker 1: Ye mean they got on January one, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand, and listen, they shut the system down. As

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Speaker 1: I reported a couple of weeks ago, they shut the

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Speaker 1: system down, the whole eform system so as to prepare

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Speaker 1: for the onslaught they knew they were going to see

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Speaker 1: on January one. They needed to change the fee schedule

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Speaker 1: to reflect the zero tax. They needed to make sure

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Speaker 1: they were ready for a large volume of filings. They

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Speaker 1: didn't anticipate the volume they got, and it crashed the

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Speaker 1: system to a large degree. A lot of FFLs I

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Speaker 1: talked to, that is Federal Firearms licensee gun stores, got

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Speaker 1: a lot of buddies out there. I put a Facebook

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Speaker 1: post out there yesterday said, Hey, any of my friends

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Speaker 1: tried to e file Form one or a Form four

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Speaker 1: to register their NFA item here in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days, And everybody that responded said yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: basically a disaster out a day later, twenty four hours later.

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Speaker 1: What am I hearing? It's getting better? My view is,

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Speaker 1: And listen, I've got another SBR I want to try

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Speaker 1: to register. I'm going to wait a couple three weeks.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let for the real surge to pass a bit,

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Speaker 1: and I'm let ATF work on working out the bugs

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Speaker 1: in their system, just kind of like we're doing here

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Speaker 1: at WIBC, and hopefully that all gets better. Now, what

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Speaker 1: will wait times be? Listen, I about a couple suppressors

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years, and I had a

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Speaker 1: suppressor approved in forty one hours, had a at form

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Speaker 1: one to build an SBR approved in twenty two hours.

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Speaker 1: Now that's before the fees went to zero. So we'll

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Speaker 1: see how that goes. But my advice to you, if

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about filing, you know, by a suppressor and listen,

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Speaker 1: I've said it many times here on the Gun Guy show.

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Speaker 1: You shoot suppressed, you get addicted really fast. It lessens

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Speaker 1: recoil obviously significantly reduces the report of the firearm, not

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Speaker 1: as much as you as you see in the Hollywood movies.

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Speaker 1: Nothing ever, sounds like like it does in the James

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Speaker 1: Bond movie. But it'll take one hundred and sixty decibel

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Speaker 1: report of a firearm, or reduce it to about one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty. That's still allow. That's the sound of

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Speaker 1: a chainsaw renant for a typical rifle shot. Now you

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Speaker 1: go twenty two subsonic, meaning the bullet doesn't break the

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Speaker 1: sound barrier. All right, Okay, you're getting pretty damn quiet.

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Speaker 1: But for our typical rifle shot like five five six,

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Speaker 1: a lot of us are shooting. It just makes it

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Speaker 1: manageable and outdoors you may even get it to a

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Speaker 1: level you don't need hearing protection. Big deal. And the

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Speaker 1: more you do that, the more you're addicted to it.

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Speaker 1: My buddies who hunt with suppressors totally addicted. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to necessarily disturb the hunt of the person on

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Speaker 1: the next piece of property, not going to necessarily scare

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Speaker 1: away other animals that may be in the proximity of

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Speaker 1: where you're hunting. If you take that shot, it's very,

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Speaker 1: very addicting. So more and more people are going to

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Speaker 1: be buying them. I think eventually the cost will come down.

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Speaker 1: I think you'll see more and more manufacturers entering the market,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's all going to be a very

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Speaker 1: very good thing for gun owners in the long term.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, we've got to get through the technological glitches,

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Speaker 1: not only at ATF, but hopefully we do here right

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Speaker 1: here at WIBC as well. I'll tell you, well, let's

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Speaker 1: take a break and we come back on shift gears.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of cases that are getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention. I've gotten a lot of context through

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Speaker 1: social media, through my websites. A lot of people want

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Speaker 1: to talk about a couple of cases where people are

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Speaker 1: being prosecuted, and a lot of gun owners or people

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Speaker 1: in general members of the public are a little upset

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Speaker 1: that a couple of people are being prosecuted for felonies

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Speaker 1: when it may appear to a lot of folks at

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Speaker 1: first blush that they did something that should be or

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Speaker 1: or or or in fact will be born out to

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Speaker 1: be completely legal. We'll get into those issues when we

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Speaker 1: come back and take your calls. I think the phone

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Speaker 1: lines are are working, Producer Gavin. Phone line's gonna work, Buddy,

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Speaker 1: Gavin's going to be a thumbs up, So give us

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Speaker 1: a call. Join the discussion. Three one seven two three,

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Speaker 1: nine ninety three ninety three. That's two three nine ninety

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Speaker 1: three ninety three. We're taking a break. This is Guy

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Speaker 1: Ralford on the Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIVC

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Speaker 1: Guy Ralford for tactical firearms training. Our most popular class

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Speaker 1: is Essentials of Indiana Gun Law, and our next one

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Speaker 1: is coming up. You get a little time to schedule

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Speaker 1: and rearrange your calendar if you need to. It's coming

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Speaker 1: up on March seventh. It's gonna be from nine am

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Speaker 1: to two o'clock PM at Indie Arms Company. It's conveniently

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Speaker 1: located at twenty five to fifty East fifty fifth Street

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Speaker 1: on the northeast side of Indianapolis. It's got a great,

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Speaker 1: beautiful range and a nice, big, comfortable classroom. We can

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Speaker 1: fit quite a few folk in there, and we always

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Speaker 1: have a good crowd. For Essentials of Indiana Gun Law.

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Speaker 1: That's five hours of the most important legal information that

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Speaker 1: you need as an Indiana gun owner, including a detailed

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Speaker 1: discussion of crimes like pointing a firearm or intimidation with

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Speaker 1: a deadly weapon, or criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about people being prosecuted for some

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Speaker 1: of those issues some of those crimes right here on

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Speaker 1: the show tonight, How can you avoid that? As well

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Speaker 1: as a detailed discussion of the law of self defense.

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Speaker 1: When are you justified in drawing your gun, pointing your gun,

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Speaker 1: and certainly in using your gun, which is always considered

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Speaker 1: the use of deadly force. Those are the kind of

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Speaker 1: things we talk about, and a whole lot more and

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Speaker 1: get into a lot of discussion, hypotheticals, what ifs, and

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Speaker 1: take your questions for five hours of essentials of Indiana

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Speaker 1: gun law. Next one's coming up again at March seventh

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Speaker 1: at Indie Arms is fifty bucks for an individual, ninety

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Speaker 1: five dollars for couples. We'd love to see you there.

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Speaker 1: You can sign up right online. It's Tactical dash Firearms

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Speaker 1: dot com. Just click on Upcoming Courses at Tactical dash

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Speaker 1: Firearms dot com and hey, welcome back. I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: Producer Gavitt is on it. He's got some bumper music

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Speaker 1: going there. And I'll tell you what, in all seriousness,

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Speaker 1: got to see the beehive of activity here, some really

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Speaker 1: talented people trying to get the glitches worked out here

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Speaker 1: in the new studio, and man, my heart and my

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Speaker 1: thanks go out to them because they're working hard. It's

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Speaker 1: a tough environment to be in. You're in a new building,

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Speaker 1: all new technology, and it's not an easy process, and

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Speaker 1: you could see if you can see how hard they're working,

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Speaker 1: then you would you would, I think, be appreciative as well.

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Speaker 1: And listen. I hope that that folks are having the

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Speaker 1: patience to stick with us because we're going to broadcast

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Speaker 1: the whole Gun Guy show. Maybe a little ragged around

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Speaker 1: the edges when it comes to the news and intros

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Speaker 1: and other ads and whatnot, but hey, you're going to

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Speaker 1: get a full, full Gun Guy show throughout five to

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Speaker 1: seven pm here on ninety three WIBC. So a case

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Speaker 1: has gotten a lot of attention, and I bet I've

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Speaker 1: had gosh, easily one hundred people send me the video

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Speaker 1: from this because there's security video. Maybe a ring doorbell

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Speaker 1: is what it looks like. And if you want to

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Speaker 1: see this, you can go to my Twitter or X

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Speaker 1: go to at Guy Ralford on Twitter. X may have

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Speaker 1: scrolled down a little bit. I've posted a couple of

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Speaker 1: things since then. If you scroll down a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you'll you'll see this because I reposted it from someone

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Speaker 1: else's Twitter feed. But it's what appears to be about

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Speaker 1: as obvious a self defense in fact a castle doctrine

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Speaker 1: self defense shooting as you can possibly imagine, and what

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Speaker 1: it is. This is in Muncie, and there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of guys who show up on the porch of

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Speaker 1: a house. And it appears from the video, and you

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Speaker 1: tell me if you differ again, to go to my

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Speaker 1: ex or Twitter feed, give me a follow while you're

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Speaker 1: on there, by the way, and you watch the video.

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Speaker 1: But one of them clearly has a gun. It appears

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Speaker 1: to me they both do. One of them actually fires

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Speaker 1: his gun as he's running away. Later on, he's the

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Speaker 1: guy here. I'll give you a little little foreshadowing here,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy who didn't die, which is the guy

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Speaker 1: who's running away, who's one of the bad guys breaking

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Speaker 1: into someone else's home. He clearly has a gun because

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Speaker 1: he shoots it sort of over his shoulder as he's

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Speaker 1: running away blindly, by the way, never a wise move.

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Speaker 1: But these two guys walk up onto this porch. The

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Speaker 1: guy in front starts kicking the door, kicks the door in,

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Speaker 1: goes through the door into the house, at which point

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Speaker 1: you hear several gunshots. And listen, what does the castle

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Speaker 1: die doctrine say? You've heard me talk about this many

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Speaker 1: many times here on the Gun Guy show. Castle doctrine

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Speaker 1: says that you can use reasonable force, including deadly force,

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Speaker 1: to either prevent or terminate an unlawful entry into your home.

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Speaker 1: You're dwelling. So here, guy's kicking your door in with

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Speaker 1: a gun in his hand, by all appearances, kicks your

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Speaker 1: door in and comes into your house. Can't you shoot him? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: yes you can. In fact, you can prevent an unlawful

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Speaker 1: entry into your home. Someone's trying to get in. You

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Speaker 1: have a reasonable belief that someone's trying to get into

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Speaker 1: your house. They haven't inventered your home yet. Can you

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Speaker 1: prevent that unlawful entry with deadly force? The statute and

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Speaker 1: we'll look it up. Thirty five dash forty one dash

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Speaker 1: three dash two. Just google it, it'll come right up.

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Speaker 1: Thirty five forty one three dash two. You can prevent

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Speaker 1: an unlawful entry. You can terminate an unlawful entry into

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Speaker 1: your home. And that's exactly what happens. And he goes

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Speaker 1: through the door, homeowner shoots, bad guy dies, and what happens.

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Speaker 1: Homeowner gets charged well, hold on, there's a lot of outrage,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who upset, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: sending me the video saying what the hell? How can

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Speaker 1: this possibly happen? Is in monthly which is Decatur County

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Speaker 1: prosecutor up there files charges against the homeowner? How can

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Speaker 1: that be? What's the possible explanation should people or should

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Speaker 1: people not be outraged about?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 1: Is the guy going to jail the homeowner? Well, that's

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Speaker 1: what we'll talk about. We come back right now. We're

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Speaker 1: taking a break the it folks, Producer Gavin and other

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Speaker 1: technical experts around here are going to try to get

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Speaker 1: us up and run a little bit more like normal.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to take a break here at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the hour, it says Guy Ralford on The

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Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

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Speaker 3: Your guns. This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford. WYBC.

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Speaker 1: Hey, how about that man? We had bumper music, We

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Speaker 1: had the the re intro producer, Devin, you're a rock

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Speaker 1: star brother, a great job. Well no, well your microphone

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Speaker 1: doesn't work, but which had it? We can't we can't

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Speaker 1: set our expectations too high here. Hey listen, Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always to the folks much smarter than me behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: who are working really hard to make things work here

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Speaker 1: despite all the technical challenges that anyone is going to face.

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Speaker 1: When you move not only just one radio station, but

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Speaker 1: multiple radio stations into a whole new building, that's a

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Speaker 1: big deal. It was pretty astronomical in fact. And listen,

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Speaker 1: they're working through it as best they can, and they

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Speaker 1: have my unadulterated gratitude. But let's go back to this

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Speaker 1: case in Muncie. So you're sitting in your home. You're

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Speaker 1: sitting in your living room. Two guys walk up on

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Speaker 1: to your front porch, start kicking on your front door,

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Speaker 1: and by all appearances, at least one of them to me,

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Speaker 1: they both have guns guns in their hand kicking your

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Speaker 1: door in. Is there a more perfect example, and is

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Speaker 1: there a more perfect justification for the use of deadly

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Speaker 1: force under the castle doctrine than that? No, that's pretty

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Speaker 1: much the quintessential case. So the person in the home,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, the guy who was kicking on

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Speaker 1: the door who went in the home first after having

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Speaker 1: kicked the door in twenty eight year old Marcus Brown,

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Speaker 1: according to the Fox fifty nine report that I'm reading

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Speaker 1: as we speak, well the guy in the house is

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Speaker 1: thirty three year old Danny Songer. Mister Songer is the

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Speaker 1: one who shot the home intruder and killed him then

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Speaker 1: called nine to one one. Police respond and after an

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Speaker 1: investigation of the scene, they arrest Danny Songer. And this

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Speaker 1: is when people got outrageous, when people started sending me

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Speaker 1: the video and they're very upset and saying, how can

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Speaker 1: this be? Well, what's interesting is that mister Songer is

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Speaker 1: not being prosecuted. He's not charged with a crime for

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Speaker 1: the specific act of shooting the guy who just kicked

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Speaker 1: his door in, Marcus Brown. He's not being even prosecuted

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Speaker 1: for killing Marcus Brown, who is now deceased. Well, then

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Speaker 1: you think, well, hold on, if the kicking of one's

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Speaker 1: door of one's home justifies the use of deadly force,

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Speaker 1: then how can it be that Danny Songer is being

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Speaker 1: prosecuted for anything at all. Well, what he's being prosecuted

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Speaker 1: for is unlawful carrying of a handgun by a prohibited possession.

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Speaker 1: It's unlawful carrying of a handgun. And what he did,

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Speaker 1: what he told police is he said, well, I'm not

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Speaker 1: able to possess a gun, and I looked briefly at

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Speaker 1: mister Soner's record on the judicial system database that I

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Speaker 1: have access to, and yeah, he's got a few convictions,

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Speaker 1: including some felony convictions, and in fact a couple of

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Speaker 1: pending serious cases as well. So mister Soner does not

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Speaker 1: appear to be anyone who's a boy scout in any

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Speaker 1: by any stretch of the imagination, and in fact has

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Speaker 1: gotten himself into some serious trouble in the past and

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Speaker 1: has a couple of very serious pending cases involving violence.

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Speaker 1: And in that context, especially with a felony conviction, you

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Speaker 1: cannot possess a firearm. So is it possessing the firearm

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Speaker 1: if someone kicks your door in and you just picked

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Speaker 1: a gun up, and again he told the police it

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Speaker 1: was not his gun, it was a girlfriend's gun. Picks

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Speaker 1: the gun up, shoots the bad guy. How can he

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Speaker 1: still get prosecuted. He's not prosecuting for killing the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: He's not being charged for killing the bad guy. That's

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Speaker 1: what people really need to understand the distinction. And this

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Speaker 1: guy overlooked dramatically. About every post I saw with people

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Speaker 1: expressing outrage over mister Songer being charged with a crime

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Speaker 1: completely missed the point that he wasn't being prosecuted, He's

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Speaker 1: not being charged for killing the bad guy. And this

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Speaker 1: raises an interesting legal issue, and it's actually a legal

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Speaker 1: issue I talk about in every single one of my

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Speaker 1: Essentials of Indiana Gunlaw class that you just heard me

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Speaker 1: pitching during the break, I always address this, which is

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Speaker 1: certain people are prohibited from possessing a gun. One of

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Speaker 1: the categories of people prohibited from possessing a gun or

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Speaker 1: people with prior felony convictions. In fact, you possess a

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Speaker 1: gun after you have a felony conviition, you're potentially looking

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Speaker 1: at ten years in federal prison. In addition, Indiana, when

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Speaker 1: Indiana passed a constitutional carry law, actually created a new crime.

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Speaker 1: We did away with it. I say we, the General

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Speaker 1: Assembly did away with the crime of carrying a handgun

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Speaker 1: without a license. That crime doesn't exist anymore. But there's

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Speaker 1: a new crime that's called carrying a handgun unlawfully or

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Speaker 1: unlawful carrying of a handgun is how it's written in

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Speaker 1: the statute, so that if you're a prohibited possessor, and

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you have any criticism of the

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Speaker 1: fact that this provision is in the law, let me

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Speaker 1: tell you, there's no way constitutional carry would have ever

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Speaker 1: passed or permitlest carry would have ever passed in the

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Speaker 1: Indiana General Assembly if this part wasn't included, Because why,

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Speaker 1: what was the biggest challenge we had. What was the

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Speaker 1: biggest argument against constitutional carry when we were fighting for

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Speaker 1: that in the General Assembly, it was, well, now anyone

428
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: can carry a gun. Felons can carry a gun, Domestic

429
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: abusers can carry a gun, people under domestic violence orders

430
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: of protection can carry a gun. Crazy people, dangerously crazy

431
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: people can carry guns under constitutional carry. And we kept saying, no, no, no,

432
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: this doesn't change who can lawfully possess a gun. You

433
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: can only carry a handgun without a license under constitutional

434
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: carry if you're not legally prohibited already from possessing a firearm.

435
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: So since there is no license requirement, and by the way,

436
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: without that, if felons could carry a gun under constitutional carry,

437
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: or domestic batterers or any number of the other categories

438
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: or prohibited possessors, no way in hell wouldn't have gotten

439
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: to vote in the General Assembly. So to get it

440
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: past that was absolutely mantorally part of the law. And

441
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: so it is. So since a permit is no longer

442
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: a license to use the term that actually applies here

443
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: in Indiana, it is a license to carry a handgun.

444
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: Since a license was no longer required to carry a

445
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: handgun if you can lawfully possess a firearm under state

446
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: and federal law, the crime of carrying a handgun without

447
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: a license disappeared, was repealed, went away. But there's a

448
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: new law that was created as part of the Constitutional

449
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: Carry Statute that went into effect in twenty twenty two,

450
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: and that is unlawful carrying of a handgun. And that

451
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: is if you're prohibited from possessing a firearm and you're

452
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: caught in possession of a handgun, then that you can

453
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: be prosecuted for that. That is a Class A misdemeanor

454
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: most of the time, but it can be enhanced to

455
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: a level five felony. Now there are six levels of felonies.

456
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: Six is the least severe, and then there's all the

457
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: way up to level one and then murder at the

458
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: top of that. So a level five felony is significant

459
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: and that you can do a number of years in jail.

460
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: With a level five felony, it is a second one

461
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: up in the list of felonies. There is a level

462
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: five felony to unlawfully carrying a handgun if you have

463
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: a felony conviction within the previous fifteen years, or you're

464
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: within five hundred feet of a school, or you have

465
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: a prior conviction for unlawfully carrying a handgun or carrying

466
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: a handgun without a license under the prior law. So

467
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: mister Songer in Muncie gets charged with the felony version

468
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: of carrying a handgun without a license, that is unlawful carrying.

469
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: I totally miss misspoke on that not carrying a handgun

470
00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: without a license unlawful carrying of a handgun because he has, apparently,

471
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: for the brief review that I conducted, more than one

472
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: felonly conviction in the past, which means he can't carry

473
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: a handgun. What he's not being convicted of, or excuse me,

474
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: prosecuted for. What he's not being prosecuted for at all,

475
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: is the shooting of Marcus Brown who walked in the door. Now,

476
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: it it's pretty easy to mesh those two things together

477
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: and say, hold on, he needed to pick up the

478
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: gun and possess it quote unquote or carry it momentarily

479
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: in order to shoot the bad guy, Yes he did,

480
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: but you don't lose your justification for the use of

481
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: deadly for so the use of any other level of

482
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: force because you're a prohibited possessor at the same time,

483
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: and here's the distinction. People didn't need to be able

484
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: to get their heads around. You can still be prosecuted

485
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: for unlawfully possessing the gun. What's the difference. Huge difference,

486
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: because if you lost the justiceification for the use of

487
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: deadly force, then in this case, mister Songer could be

488
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: prosecuted for murder or manslaughter. They are talking about much

489
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: more significant crimes with much more time in prison. He's

490
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: not being prosecuted for murder because he didn't lose the

491
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: justification for shooting the bad guy who just kicked his

492
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: door in, But because he possessed a firearm in the process,

493
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: he's being prosecuted for unlawful carrying of a handgun as

494
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: a level five felony because he has previous felony convictions.

495
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: That's how that hashes out. Now he's also being prosecuted

496
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: for a level six felony, which is obstruction of justice.

497
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: Why is that Well, according to a probable cause affidavit

498
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: filed in that case, there was a large box with

499
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of packaged material in it that mister Songer

500
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: gave to his girlfriend and told her to go out

501
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: out and lock it in the truck outside before the

502
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: police arrived. It turned out there were drugs that reportedly marijuana. Now,

503
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: should people get too excited about somebody dealing marijuana, Well,

504
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: it's legal in a lot of states, it's not yet

505
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: in Indiana. Is dealing marijuana still a crime? Yes? But

506
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: apparently according to the police anyway and the prosecutor's office.

507
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: There were conversations between song and his girlfriend about hiding

508
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: the drugs and telling the cops a slightly different version

509
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: of what happened than what really happened. And when you

510
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: induce a witness to light to police, that substruction of justice,

511
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: when you change the crime scene, that substruction of justice.

512
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: The age old ridiculous. Now he talks about this more

513
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: than once here on the Gun Guy Show. The stupid

514
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: ridiculous advice that you see it on the internet, or

515
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: you may hear in a gun shop here or there

516
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: about Well, you know, if you ever shoot somebody on

517
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: your front porch, drag them inside. How many times have

518
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: you heard that? It is unbelievably stupid and ridiculous and

519
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: will likely get you prosecuted a because the forensics guys

520
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: CSI guys are going to absolutely figure out that you

521
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: drug a body across the threshold of your door into

522
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: your living room or entry or wherever you drug it to.

523
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two, it's a crime. It's a

524
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: level six felony to change the crime scene. That's obstruction

525
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: of justice. That's exactly what mister Songer is being prosecuted

526
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: for in this context. But what people really need to

527
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: understand is that he's not being prosecuted for shooting the

528
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: bad guy. Now, what we do have in Indiana is

529
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: something called the necessity defense, and that's where it starts

530
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: getting really interesting. Will mister Songner have a viable claim

531
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: at trial that he's not guilty of possessing the gun

532
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: on lawf leave, even though he has prior felony convictions

533
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: because it was necessary for him to do so. Is

534
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: that really a defense under Indiana law? And how does

535
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: that work? That's what we'll go into and we come

536
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: back and we will take your calls. I think the

537
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: phone lines will work. Give us a call. Three one, seven, two,

538
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: three nine, ninety three ninety three. You have questions or

539
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: comments about this case or anything else you want to

540
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: bring up here in the two way context, give us

541
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: a call. Three one seven two three nine ninety three,

542
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: ninety three, says Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show

543
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: on ninety three WIBC Guy Ralford for the law offices

544
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: of Guy Ralfords. You know, if you have something on

545
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: your record that prohibits you from possessing a firearm, a

546
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: lot of those convictions or other issues on your record,

547
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: we can resolve through expungements or petitions to restore rights

548
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: depending on what's on your record, and it varies tremendously.

549
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: Some crimes cannot be expouished, but an awful lot of

550
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: them can, and we restore the rights of a lot

551
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: of people across Indiana. We've been doing that for a

552
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: long time. If that's an issue for you, someone in

553
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: your family, a loved one, or a friend, contact us

554
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: through the website. It's Ralfordlaw dot com and we'll see

555
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: if we can perhaps give you some relief through the

556
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: restoration of your right to possess a firearm. That's Relford

557
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: Law dot com.

558
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: Now you've got a gun Guy. Guy Ralford on ninety

559
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: three wypc.

560
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: Hey and welcome back, and thanks again to our technical folks.

561
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: Been really working hard here to get things up and run,

562
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: and I think we're pretty much back to normal, however

563
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: you want to define normal. But before we took that break,

564
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: I was mentioning that Indiana has what's called a necessity defense.

565
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 1: And you know what, I don't know that I've ever

566
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: brought this up here on the show. I brought it

567
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: up in the courtroom, certainly, But the necessity of defense

568
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: says here in Indiana that you can justify illegal conduct

569
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: if it was the only reasonable, ultra alternative available to

570
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: prevent a greater harm. And it's rooted in the principle

571
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: that individuals shouldn't be punished for actions taken to avoid

572
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: a greater evil. That's one way to put it when

573
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: there are no legal alternatives available. So if someone is

574
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: chasing you on the highway and shooting at you, and

575
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: you then run one hundred miles an hour trying to

576
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: get away from them, is that illegal? Yes? Could that

577
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: be prosecuted for reckless driving? Yes? But if you then say,

578
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: hold on, if I didn't do that, the people who

579
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: were chasing me would have shot me and killed me.

580
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: That's a greater, greater evil, that's a greater harm. It

581
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: was necessary for me to engage an illegal conduct. And

582
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: how good of a of a necessity defense did mister

583
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: Songner have to say? Some guys just kicked my door

584
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: in with guns in her hand. Under the necessity defense,

585
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: I needed to protect my home, my family, including my girlfriend.

586
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: That's pretty solid. I'll tell you what. We're coming up here.

587
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: At the top of the hour, it is time to

588
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: take a break. Give us a call, join the discussion.

589
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: Three one seven two, three nine, three ninety three. We're

590
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: taking a break. This is Guy Ralford on The Gun

591
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

592
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of

593
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: a free state, the right of the people to keep

594
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the

595
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 3: Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy. Boom boom

596
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom boom boom

597
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: bang bang bo Guy Ralford on NIGHTYVC.

598
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: And welcome back for hour number two. Here The Gun

599
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: Guy Show on ninety three WIBC. I think we've got

600
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: our technical glitches mostly resolved. Reminds me true story. One

601
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: time I was in the airport in Detroit and I

602
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: was gonna ready to get on an airplane. I was

603
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: on one of these little commuter flights. In fact, it

604
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: might even been one. One of these planes was like

605
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: a high wing turboprop. It wasn't even necessarily a jet airplane.

606
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: This goes back a little ways, and I remember they

607
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: kept delaying the flight, saying they have a mechanical problem.

608
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: And they delayed an hour and they said, oh, we

609
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: got it. They still haven't quite resolved our issues. Delayed

610
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: another hour, and after about that third delay, they came

611
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: on and they said, well, we're gonna go ahead and

612
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: board flight. So and so I think I was going

613
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: to uh sagoaw, Michigan, as I recall, So we're gonna

614
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: go ahead and board this flight because and I quote,

615
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: we think we have most of the major problems fixed.

616
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, you know, I've got a real

617
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: problem with two of the words therein we think we

618
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: have three words I have a problem with. We think

619
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: we have most of the major problem. We'll wait a minute.

620
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: Does that mean you're not sure and all the major

621
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: problems aren't fixed? Just most? And what about the minor problems.

622
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a damn airplane. How about fix all

623
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: the problems. So in that context, I think we have

624
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: most of the major problems fixed here at WIPC for

625
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: the remainder of the show at any rate. And seriously,

626
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: thanks so much to the technical folks here on the

627
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: weekend beyond their normal work hours trying to get us

628
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: on the air and get things working. So I do apologize. Listen,

629
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: I know what it's like. I listened to WBC all

630
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: the time. I've heard the glitches, the times that you know,

631
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: shows have gun off the air or you just get

632
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of silence in the middle of the news

633
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: and and no one's missing those things. Believe me, there

634
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: are a lot of eyes on that or ears on that,

635
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: and and people are working hard to get those things resolved.

636
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: And thank you as a listening audience, thank you for

637
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: your patience. You're hanging in there. We don't want to

638
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: lose anybody. We're going to get these things resolved. There

639
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: are some definitely growing pains moving into the new building,

640
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: and we really do appreciate your patience and your loyalty

641
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: and sticking with us here as loyal listeners of WIBC

642
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: and the other radio one stations as well. So I've

643
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: been talking about this case, and apparently my good friend

644
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: Jerry texted me and he said that I had mentioned

645
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: this case from Muncie. He said, I I mentioned that

646
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: it was in Decatur County, and I listen, I don't know.

647
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: Sometimes I say things here on the radio that that

648
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: I would I swear I would deny. I said no,

649
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: I didn't say, of course, I didn't say that Munsey's

650
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: in Delaware County, not to Caterur County. But apparently, uh,

651
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: I said exactly the wrong thing. It is Delaware accounting.

652
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: Uh that obviously Muncie is in And I've been talking

653
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: about this, and listen, you have questions or comments. A

654
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: lot of people feel strongly about this, and we have

655
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: a couple of people on the phone, so we'll go

656
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: to the phone lines here in just a bit. But

657
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 1: if you feel strongly about this, please keep in mind

658
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: what what this case does not mean. It does not

659
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: mean that because you're a prohibitive possessor, you lose your

660
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: ability to defend yourself. And and the the example I

661
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: always given my Essentials of Indiana Gungwall class that you

662
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: hear me pitch all the time here on the show.

663
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: Example I always give is somebody's a prohibited posessor because

664
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: they have a previous filming conviction and they're standing on

665
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: the on the on the side of the road dealing drugs,

666
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: and their rival drug dealer decides they're they're gonna, they're gonna,

667
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna kill this person. So you're you're you're You're

668
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: the felon who's dealing drugs. You're a prohibited posessor, you

669
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: have previous felony convictions, you cannot possess a gun. You're

670
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: on the street corner dealing drugs, and your rival drug

671
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: dealer decides they're going to murder you in a drive

672
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: by shooting. So you look up, you see a car

673
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: rolling slowly past all the windows towards you. Come down.

674
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: You see two gun barrels come out of the window,

675
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: and you realize you're about to be shot. You pull

676
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: your gun that you're carrying illegally and shoot the bad

677
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: guys who are about to kill you in a drive

678
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: by shooting. And I always ask the question of my

679
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: class at that point, all right, are you going to jail?

680
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: And I asked that question about one hundred and twelve

681
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: times throughout the course of that class, because I'm testing

682
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: what people have assimilated in terms of what's legal and

683
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: what's not. Are you going to jail for murder because

684
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: you shot the people who are rolling by because you've

685
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: lost your ability to lawfully carry a firearm? Through that

686
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: fellon and conviction and usually it's about fifty to fifty

687
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: the people in the class. People say, well, yeah, you're

688
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: going to jail because you can't possess the gun. Whether

689
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: you're going to jail or not is too broad of

690
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 1: a question. A more fair question is are you going

691
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: to jail for defending yourself? In other words, did you

692
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: lose the ability to use force, including deadly force and

693
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: self defense because you're a prohibitive possessor who can't possess

694
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: a gun. The answer that's no, you don't lose your

695
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: ability to defend yourself. However, you lose your ability to

696
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: possess a firearm, and you can be then prosecuted for

697
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: a possession of a firearm by a felon or unlawful

698
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: carrying of a handgun, as I talked about in the

699
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: first hour. And that's the distinction. I want to make

700
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: sure people understand that about what this guy in Delaware County. Sorry,

701
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: I screwed that up in the first hour, and thanks

702
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: to my buddy Jerry for correcting me. He's sort of

703
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: my my over the year consciency. He does that to

704
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: me often. Hey, yo, bro, you just screwed this up,

705
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: which is great because it allows me an opportunity to

706
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: correct it. So I don't make sure I made that distinction,

707
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: but as I say, we do have here in Indiana

708
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: the necessity defense, which went over just before the break,

709
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: which could very clearly apply in my mind. I'll tell

710
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: you what. Let's go to the phone lines and I

711
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: don't have names or topics or anything, but let's go

712
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: to our first caller, which got for us? This guy, Yeah,

713
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: it is man, which got for us? And what's your name?

714
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's okay, Marcus. What kind do you for you? Buddy?

715
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 4: I heard you earlier this week on Hamroy and Nigel

716
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 4: talking about buying guns from her friends. Yeah, and one

717
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 4: of my questions was is that I did buy one

718
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 4: from a friend of mine. But what we did was

719
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 4: we signed a contract with a witness.

720
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: Is that is that acceptable?

721
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 2: Yeah?

722
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: I mean, this is just it was his gun, and

723
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: you just bought it directly from him. You paid him

724
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: some amount of money and he said, hey, here's my gun.

725
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we put his name on it and wrote

726
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 4: on there that he so and so sold me his gun,

727
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 4: me his gun, and then this is our witness. And

728
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 4: then we all three signed it and each kept the copy.

729
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean that's more than that's more than adequate.

730
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: In fact, that paperwork, Marcus is not even legally required.

731
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: It's cool, you know, it's cool that you did that,

732
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: and it's it's good that you have some evidence and

733
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: that he has some evidence that the gun was transferred

734
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: for So, for instance, if five years from now, that

735
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: gun is recovered at a crime scene, what happens is

736
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: the cops will run a trace on that gun. What

737
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: happens with a trace A lot of people don't understand

738
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: how this works. What happens is the police recover the

739
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: gun and they get the serial number, and making my

740
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: off of it, they call the manufacturer. Let's say it's

741
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 1: a Glock model nineteen nine millimeters. So the police call

742
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: the manufacturer Glock and they say, hey, may we've covered

743
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: this glock nineteen at a crime scene with serial number

744
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: blank and the manufacturer. Then Glock says, well, we sold

745
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: that to such and such gun shop, or we sold

746
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: it to this distributor. So the police or the ATF

747
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: then call the gun shop or that distributor and they say, hey,

748
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: Glock sold you this gun, Glock nineteen, on such a date,

749
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: this serial number. What'd you do with it? And let's

750
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: say it was sold directly to a gun shop, and

751
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: the gun shop then says, well, I sold that to

752
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: guy Relford. And they have to maintain their forms. That's

753
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: the form forty four to seventy three, that's the form

754
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: you fill out in the gun store. They have to

755
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: keep those in chronological order in searchable format, which mainly

756
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: for years and a lot of folks are starting to

757
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: digitize this process. I think that's very smart to do,

758
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: especially the high volume dealers. But a lot of time

759
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: it's just the paper forms. They're more or less they're

760
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: supposed to be maintained chronologically, and so they have to

761
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 1: go through they're ruffling through these things looking for that gun.

762
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: They find it, they go, ah, I sold that gun

763
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: to so and so. Then it's gumshoe detective work from there.

764
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: So let's say Marcus your friend gets a knock on

765
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: the door and it's the cops and they say, hey,

766
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: we understand from so and so gun store that you

767
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: bought a glock nineteen, serial number whatever, and that gun

768
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 1: was recovered at a murder scene. Where were you that night?

769
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: At which point your friend has a piece of paper

770
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: that you executed with him that says, oh, no, I

771
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: sold this gun to Marcus. And I'm not suggesting for

772
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: a minute that you'd use that gun in a criminal act, Marcus.

773
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: That's not my point. My point is that your friend's

774
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: going to be glad he had that piece of paper

775
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: signed by you, is by another person that says I

776
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: don't own that gun anymore. So it's smart to do

777
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: what you did. But you can also do to transfer

778
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: a gun, and as far as Belton suspenders, this may

779
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: be even smarter is go down to your local gun store,

780
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: go to your FFL, ask them if they do transfers.

781
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: And a lot of times and for years and years

782
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: and years, the typical fee was like twenty five bucks,

783
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: and I think some stores have raised their prices. You

784
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: may be able to find one to do it cheap

785
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: that does it cheaper. But you go to a gun

786
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: store and says, hey, do you do transfers, Yes, we

787
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: do transfers. Great, we want to do a transfer. You know,

788
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: guy wants to sell this gun to Marcus. Okay. What

789
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: they actually do is they take that gun into their inventory,

790
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: they put it and they're what they call their A

791
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: and D logger Acquisitions and Distribution log and they then

792
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: have you fill out the paperwork in the gun store,

793
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: the forty four to seventy three form, and they actually

794
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: do a background check on you. And only after they

795
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 1: after you pass the background run by the FBI through NIXT,

796
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: the National insta Criminal Background Check System, do they then

797
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: turn around and say, Okay, now you can take that

798
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: gun home. So technically your friend didn't even sell you

799
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: that gun. The gun store did. So that's even more

800
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: Belton suspenders. But what's the law on that? Listen, there's

801
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: no formal registration requirement, there's no documentation requirement in the

802
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: law for a private individual to sell a gun to

803
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: another private individual. Is it smart? I have the paperwork

804
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: that you guys have. Yes, is it smart, especially for

805
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: someone you don't know to go down to your local

806
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: gun store and have them do the transfer. What's actually

807
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: a background check? Hell, yeah, that's smart, and I think

808
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: it's responsible what a lot of folks have done. And

809
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: I haven't sold many guns in my lifetime. Just because

810
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: I buy a gun, I tend to hold on to it.

811
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: And on the very rare occasion that I've sold a gun,

812
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: I've asked for a person for their license to carry

813
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: a handgun and their driver's license, and I made a

814
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: cap and did a bill of sale, just like happened

815
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: in your situation, Marcus. And it was funny because I

816
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 1: was selling a rifle. It was a hunting rifle, and

817
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm not a big hunter. A gun was a gift

818
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: and it just wasn't a gun I was going to use,

819
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: and so I decided to sell it to recover some

820
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: money and use it for a different project and SBR

821
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: I was building, And so I sold it to a

822
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: person and I said, listen, I need to see your

823
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: license to carry handgun and your Indiana driver's license, and

824
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: I want to make a copy. And I told him this,

825
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: that it was going to be a condition of the sale.

826
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: He said, no problem. And while we're doing all this

827
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: at my office, he said, by the way, I'm a

828
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: little curious, you don't need a license for a rifle.

829
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: Why are you demanding to see my license to carry handgun?

830
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: I said, Well, because if you've been issued a license

831
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: to carry handgun by the Indiana State Police, you've passed

832
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: the background check that the state police put you through.

833
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: The driver's license you give me tells me, a, you're

834
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: an Indiana resident, because it's illegal to transfer or a

835
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: gun to a citizen of another state a resident of

836
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: another state. And two, your driver's license tells me that

837
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: you're the same person whose names on the license to

838
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: carry a handgun, since our licensed to carry handgun doesn't

839
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: have picture on it. And so that was what I

840
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: decided to do to make sure without necessarily going down

841
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: to the gun store and doing a transfer, that this

842
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: was a person who it was appropriate to receive my rifle. Now,

843
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: what's the law say. The law says you can't knowingly

844
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: transfer a gun to someone who's ineligible to buy their

845
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: own gun from a dealer. That's knowingly. Do you have

846
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: to ask, you have to do a background check, Do

847
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: you have to inquire? Do you have to investigate? No,

848
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: that's not part of the legal requirement. You can't knowingly.

849
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: So if your buddy comes over and goes, hey, man,

850
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: you know I've had all these felony convictions. I can't

851
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: buy a gun in a gun store. Do me a

852
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: favor and sell me that clock nineteen. You sell that

853
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: person a gun. Okay, now you've committed a crime, and

854
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. We're a little past the quarter.

855
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: Ale is take a break. We've got some more people

856
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: on hold. As I understand it. Producer Gavin's nodding yes,

857
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: So let's take a break here. We'll come back. We'll

858
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: go right back to the phone lines. Thank thanks to Marcus.

859
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: That was a great question and appreciate you calling in.

860
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: We'll go back to the phone lines when we come back.

861
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

862
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: ninety three WIBC. Guy Ralford for tactical Firearms training. Our

863
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: next essentials of Indiana Gun Law, where we talk about

864
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: things like pointing a firearm. We're we're going to talk

865
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 1: about it here on the show, about the castle doctrine,

866
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: about transferring a firearm, and a lot more detail than

867
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: we can get into here on the show. That and

868
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: a whole lot of other topics for owning, carrying using

869
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: a gun in Indiana. Our next one's coming up Saturday,

870
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: March seventh. We'd love to see you there. It's fifty

871
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: bucks for an individual, ninety five dollars for couples. You

872
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: can register right online, go to Tactical dash Firearms dot com.

873
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: Just click on Upcoming courses at Tactical dash Firearms dot com.

874
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 3: The show about gun rights, gun safety and responsible gun ownership.

875
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 3: This is The Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on wy PC.

876
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: With us, and I'll tell you what. Let's go back

877
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: to the phone lines and let's see here. I believe

878
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: we've got Frank on the phone. Frank, Welcome to The

879
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show. Hello Guy, Hello, sir, thanks for calling.

880
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 5: How are you.

881
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. I'm doing better than the technical guys

882
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: around here and producer Gavin. They've been sweating it throughout

883
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: the evening trying to get all our glitches fixed. So

884
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing okay, man. But what you got for us tonight?

885
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 5: Anyway, later on this year, my wife and I are

886
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 5: going to take a trip over east and we're going

887
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 5: to hit Philadelphia nine probably Boston, Sesso of Liberty and

888
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 5: hang on just a minute, Alexa pause.

889
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: You're on the radio there, brother, You got gotta hang

890
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: with us here.

891
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I was a polity Alexa because I was

892
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 5: listening to that.

893
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: And oh, I got you.

894
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 5: And anyway, so anyway, of course I carry guns and

895
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 5: everything like every good citizen off too. But well, what

896
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 5: kind of hell do I have to go through to

897
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 5: make sure I don't get thrown in jail in one

898
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 5: of those states?

899
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: Well, several of those states, New York Massachusetts included, don't

900
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: recognize the Indiana licensed to carry and are not constitutional

901
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: carry states, so you just can't carry a gun there period.

902
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: So if you ever traveling you want to look that up.

903
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: I keep an app on my cell phone. It's just

904
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: called CCW. It's got like an outline of the United

905
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: States with a gun overlaid over the top of it,

906
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: and it gives you a law in each of the

907
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: other states. The US Concealed Carry Association, which I've been

908
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: a member of since twenty twelve, I have their carry

909
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: insurance as well. They have a great what's called a

910
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: reciprocity map. And listen, just knowing that your license to carry,

911
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: if you have one of those in Indiana, is recognized

912
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: in another state. And again Massachusetts, you're talking about Boston

913
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: and New York. No, no, no, and no, they do

914
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: not recognize our license, and several other states out east

915
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: do not as well. So you're looking at a felony

916
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 1: if you carry a gun there. And even if your

917
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: license is recognized in another state or they are a

918
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: constitutional carry state, that's only the first part of the

919
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: equation because you've got to make sure you comply with

920
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: all the other laws as well, like where you can

921
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: and can't carry a gun. A lot of places have

922
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: laws that we don't have in Indiana, like you can't

923
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: carry a gun into a place that serves alcohol, or

924
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,280
Speaker 1: into a sports stadium or any number of us others.

925
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: A lot of states have restrictions that we don't have,

926
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: including some states that you would think of as being

927
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: gun friendly, like Texas. Texas has a law about going

928
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: into a bar place that serves alcohol. So you have

929
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: to research that as well. But I hate to give

930
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: you bad news, Frank, but it is unlikely you could

931
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: legally carry your gun on your trip out east. Let's

932
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: go back to the phone lines, and we've got Bob.

933
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: Bob prisis I think on the phone, Bob, welcome to

934
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:33,479
Speaker 1: the Gun Guy Show.

935
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 6: Hey guy, A quick question. I'll get off the air

936
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 6: and listen to your answer. Sure, I just got my

937
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 6: license to carry a couple of years ago. The other

938
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 6: day when I was picking up a gun, I found

939
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 6: out if it's less than five years old, they don't

940
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 6: have to turn your Form forty four to seventy three

941
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 6: to the FBI to ring for a proceed They do

942
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 6: have to have you fill it out for their records. Right,

943
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 6: that's correct. Right, So my question is, can I get

944
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 6: the date on my car change? Can I get it

945
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 6: to extend it? I mean it'll end. I think I

946
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 6: said to your three years, it'll end in a couple

947
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 6: of years, and I have to go back to sending

948
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 6: that to the f behind waiting around for that, or

949
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 6: I get that changed.

950
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: Yep. No, it's a great question, Bob, And your question

951
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: was something that we actually anticipated because I was involved

952
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: in this. When we we're in the process of passing

953
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: an amendment to the licensing statute, or are we changed

954
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: and this goes back to twenty nineteen if I remember correctly,

955
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: where we changed a four year license to a five

956
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: year license, and we did that anticipating it took a

957
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 1: number of years, but we did that anticipating that at

958
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: some point the ATF would make our license to carry

959
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: what's called Nick's exempt. What's Nicks exempt. It's exactly what

960
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: Bob just described, which is going to a gun store

961
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: and you show them your license to carry, and they

962
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: can take that, make a copy of it, and keep

963
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: that with your forty four to seventy three form and

964
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: do that in lieu of as a substitute for a

965
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: background check through the National Instacrimental Background Check System. That's

966
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: why we call it Knicks Exempt. And we made some

967
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: other changes to the five year statute to make it

968
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: Nicks Exempt eligible, But it's only the ATF that makes

969
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: that decision, and not until last year twenty twenty five

970
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: did ATF finally add Indiana to the Knicks Exempt list.

971
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: So it's exactly what Bob described. You can go in

972
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: and you can show that your license. Now the license,

973
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: exactly to Bob's point, has to have been issued within

974
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: the last five years. And by the way, the gun

975
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: store doesn't have to do this. If they don't want

976
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: to do this, they want to put everybody through a

977
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: background check through NIX, that's their prerogative. But if they

978
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: choose to the gun store can take your license in

979
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: lieu of a knicks Check, they just keep a copy

980
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: of it. But again, the license has to have been

981
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: issued within the last five years. The logic for that

982
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: being that if you got your license thirty years ago

983
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: as opposed to two years ago, isn't it much more

984
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: likely that something has happened in the meantime, like a

985
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: felony conviction or an order of protection for domestic violence

986
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: that made you ineligible in the meantime since you got

987
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: your license. Now, if some of any of those things happened,

988
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: the state police provoke your license and they demand that

989
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: you send it back to them, But people could potentially

990
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: ignore the law in that regard. So the idea is

991
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: it has to be a recently issued license. In the

992
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: ATF settled on five years. But we anticipated Bob's question because, Okay,

993
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: what if you got a lifetime license, which I assume

994
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: Bob got and his is good to be Nick's exempt

995
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: because he got it less than five years ago. But

996
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: what if Bob wants to continue to be able to

997
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: buy guns without a knick check. Do you go about

998
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: doing that since he has a five year license. Well,

999
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: that's written right into the statue, and I was in

1000
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: the room when we discussed this because I brought it up.

1001
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: I said, you know a lot of people who have

1002
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: lifetime licenses are going to want to avail themselves of

1003
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: this five year license issue so they can be nixed

1004
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: exempt when they buy guns. And the cure that we

1005
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: came up with was that you can simultaneously hold both

1006
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: a lifetime license and a five year license. In fact, Bob,

1007
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: since you I'm sure since you got your license here

1008
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: recently got electronically fingerprinted, I actually if you contact me

1009
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: through the website it's ralfordlaw dot com, I can actually

1010
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: send you the email where you can email the state

1011
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: police and say, I'm applying for my five year license.

1012
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: I already have a lifetime and I would like for

1013
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: you to use the same fingerprints that you used for

1014
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: my lifetime license. They will do that, complete your background check,

1015
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: which they renew when you're renewing your license for your

1016
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: five year, and mail you your license without even the

1017
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: need to get fingerprinted again. Like me, I got my

1018
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: lifetime license many many many years ago. So after we

1019
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: became nixt exempt this last summer, I think I had

1020
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: to go get refinger printed because I didn't have electronic prints.

1021
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: I had to go get ink prints rolled, but you can.

1022
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: You can possess both a five year license and a

1023
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: lifetime license simultaneously. I do. I've got both of them

1024
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: in my wallet. In fact, I just for the first

1025
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: time ever went in my buddies. I ordered a lower

1026
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: receiver from BCM from Bravo, and I was I was

1027
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: building a new SBR and so I ordered a new

1028
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: lower and since that's considered a firearm by the federal government,

1029
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: I had to go through a background check or I

1030
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: had to fill out the forty four seventy three more

1031
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: accurately showed my license to carry. So my buddies at

1032
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: Pinnacle Firearm, they're at ninety eight West Carmel draw They're

1033
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: my pals. I always want to pitch my friends there.

1034
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: And they accepted my license issued within the last five

1035
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: years in lieu of a background check, and I walked

1036
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: out with my lower receiver. So that's the answer, Bob,

1037
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: is that you can possess both of five years, so

1038
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: you're not renewing year old when you're just applying for

1039
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: a new one. And when it gets to be, you know,

1040
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: four four and a half years old, just apply for

1041
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: a new five years five year license and you can

1042
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: do that in perpetuity here on the on the YouTube feed,

1043
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my buddy Kelly, and Avon said, yeah,

1044
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: the cool kids have both a lifetime and a five

1045
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: year license. Yeah. Well, I'm a little old to call

1046
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: myself a cool kid, but hey, I definitely fall within

1047
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: that club. I'll tell you what. We're past the bottom

1048
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: of the air list. Take a break, we'll come back,

1049
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: we'll shift gears. Talk about another case here in Indianapolis.

1050
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,479
Speaker 1: It's got a lot of people fired up for why

1051
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: the gun owners being charged with a crime and a

1052
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: different circumstance, but one that a lot of people find questionable,

1053
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: as frankly I do as well. We'll talk about that

1054
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: and take your calls. Join the discussion. Three one, seven, two, three, nine,

1055
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: ninety three, ninety three. This is Guy Ralford on The

1056
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

1057
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 3: Your Rights, your responsibilities, your guns. This is the Gun

1058
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 3: Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WIBC.

1059
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: And welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

1060
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC. So here's another case just

1061
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: unfolded and arrest just made and I actually, uh just

1062
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: saw this news story to day to today where it

1063
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: said that, uh, just recently. It was toward the end

1064
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: of December, so it obviously it took a while for

1065
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: prosecutors to decide to file these charges. Actually, this happened

1066
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: according to the newsroup on Fox fifty nine, happened on

1067
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: December twenty third, But apparently a customer in a restaurant,

1068
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: a barbecue restaurant located within what they call the garage

1069
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: food hall. This is part of the Bottleworks district off

1070
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: of Mass Aft in downtown Indy. Here that someone was

1071
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: in the Garage food Hall at the Pigpen Barbecue restaurant

1072
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: and a customer became very very irate at an employee

1073
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: identified as Jacob Asberry, and the customer was upset because

1074
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 1: the restaurant wouldn't accept a coupon that the customer had,

1075
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: and the restaurant reported to the customer that they had

1076
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: we're having some technical issues quote unquote, according again to

1077
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: the news article, and so we can't honor your coupon

1078
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: right now, And the customer got upset and became more

1079
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: and more irate and aggressive at one point said you

1080
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: need to fix this right now. Well, okay, I've said

1081
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: something similar to businesses before. You have caused me a problem.

1082
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: You need to fix this. But then it became somewhat threatening,

1083
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 1: and according to multiple witnesses, the customer said to the

1084
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: restaurant employee, I will snatch your ass right over this counter.

1085
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: I will snatch your ass right over this counter. Now

1086
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: that sounds violent to me, that sounds like a threat.

1087
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: But at that point, the restaurant employee pulled a loaded

1088
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: handgun out of a bag. I don't know whether it's

1089
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: a backpack or what that is, just says out of

1090
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: a and the news report, and pointed it at the

1091
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: customer and said just leave. Didn't say I'm gonna shoot you,

1092
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: didn't say anything else, said, just said just leave, at

1093
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: which point the customer called nine one one. So you

1094
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: have an aggressive customer becomes threatening. And this is this

1095
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: is this is a key term right here. This is

1096
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: gonna be what this case all boils down to. I

1097
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: will snatch your ass right over this counter. Is that

1098
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: a threat of violence? And if it's a threat of violence,

1099
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: is that enough to justify pulling your gun and pointing

1100
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: your gunna ask someone and listen, a really good mindset

1101
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: to have. I've been saying this for a long time,

1102
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: I say this, exactly this, and I've defended dozens of

1103
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: pointing a firearm cases. I'm defending eight or ten right now. Uh.

1104
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: It's a big part of what I do. I can

1105
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: tell exactly how these cases go and what I tell

1106
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: people in my Essentials of Indiana Gunglaw class all the time,

1107
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: as I say, listen, a gun is a tool of

1108
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: last resort. It's not a bluff. It's not to intimidate,

1109
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: it's not to win an argument, it's not to be

1110
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: a tough guy. It's a tool of last resort that

1111
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: you need to use to save your life. And if

1112
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: you don't intend on using it, don't pull it, and

1113
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: for God's sake, don't point it. And I think that's

1114
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: generally good advice. But that advice is pretty conservative compared

1115
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: to what the law says. The law on pointing a

1116
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: firearm says something a little different. That's what we'll go

1117
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: into when we come back. We're taking a break, and

1118
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: I'll talk about what the law asks, because that's what

1119
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: this employee at the pickpen got charged with felony pointing

1120
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: a firearm level six felony. What is that crime? Again?

1121
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: We don't have brandishing in Indiana. We have intimidation with

1122
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: a deadly weapon. We have pointing a firearm. What's the

1123
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: law of pointing a firearm? Is this guy guilty of

1124
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: that crime or not? Again, many facts I'm sure will

1125
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: come out at trial that we don't have, and so

1126
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: we're just going to have a hypothetical discussion based on

1127
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: what we know and what the law says. But that's

1128
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: what we'll go into when we come back and if

1129
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: we have time to take your calls as well. Right now,

1130
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: we're taking a break. This is Guy Ralford on the

1131
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC. Guy Ralford for

1132
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: the law offices of Guy Relford. We'd love to talk

1133
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: to you about potentially restoring your gun rights if you

1134
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: have a conviction or something else in your legal record

1135
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: that's caused you to lose your gun rights for a

1136
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: lot of folks. Certainly not all, but for a lot

1137
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: of folks, we can restore your gun rights. If that

1138
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: applies to you, someone in your family or a friend,

1139
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,479
Speaker 1: family member, contact us through the website. It's Ralfredlaw dot com.

1140
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: We'll talk about restoring your gun rights at lfrid law

1141
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: dot com.

1142
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 3: He's a Second Amendment attorney. He's an NRA certified firearms instructor.

1143
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 3: He's the Gun Guy Guy Ralford on ninety three WYPC.

1144
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: And welcome back for the last segment of the Gun

1145
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: Guy Show here on ninety three WIBC. So you've got

1146
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: an employee after an irate customer says I'm going to

1147
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: snatch your ass over the counter, pulls his gun and

1148
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: points it at the customer. Employee gets charged with a

1149
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: felony pointing a firearm. Well, what's the pointing of firearm

1150
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: statue in Indiana? Say, it's interesting because it starts out

1151
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: with a couple of exceptions, and it starts off saying, well,

1152
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: first of all, this section doesn't apply to a law

1153
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: enforcement officer who's acting within the scope of his official duties. Okay.

1154
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: That goes on to say it doesn't apply to someone

1155
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: who's justified in using reasonable force against another person under

1156
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 1: either and then it gives two statute numbers. One is

1157
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: thirty five forty one Desk three Dash two. What's that?

1158
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: That's the general self defense statute. So if you're justified

1159
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: and using reasonable force under the self defense statute, then

1160
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: you're not guilty of the crime. Appointing a firearm. That's

1161
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: what this whole case at the pickpen they're off mass

1162
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: Ab is going to come down to. The other one,

1163
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,919
Speaker 1: by the way, is if you're justified and using reasonable

1164
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 1: force to effect a citizen's arrest. I can do a

1165
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: whole show on citizens arrest, and that doesn't apply to

1166
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 1: our barbecue restaurant situation. So I'm not going to talk

1167
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,480
Speaker 1: about that one. But when are you justified using reasonable

1168
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: force against another person? Well, when you believe that you're

1169
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: preventing the imminent use of unlawful force against you or

1170
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: a third person. If someone says I'm going to snatch

1171
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: you over that counter, do you have a reasonable belief

1172
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: at that point that you're preventing the use of unlawful force,

1173
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: the imminent use of unlawful force against you. That's what

1174
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: that barbecue restaurant case is going to come down to.

1175
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 1: I'll guarantee you the reason that that happened on December

1176
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: twenty third, and the employee wasn't charged, apparently from the

1177
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: news article anyway, for several days after that. That's what

1178
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office was having to chew over. That's exactly

1179
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: what this gentleman's defense lawyer is going to want to

1180
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: talk a lot about Now, we do have one silly

1181
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: case in the context of defending property, because the self

1182
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: defense statute says you cannot use your You cannot defend

1183
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: your I'm not talking about your home, talk about your

1184
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 1: personal property, your stuff, right, your your wallet, your car,

1185
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 1: your watch, your rings, your stuff. The self defense statute

1186
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 1: says you can never use deadly force to protect your stuff.

1187
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: Your property, your personal property, not your home. Take that

1188
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: part out of your mind for a moment. You can

1189
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: only use reasonable force. And we have one case that

1190
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: says that the pointing of a firearm is not reasonable

1191
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: for us in defending one's property. Well, prosecutor is probably

1192
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: going to ask for a jury instruction in this Barbie

1193
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: restaurant case to say pointing of firearms not reasonable force

1194
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: in the context of preventing the imminent use of unlawful

1195
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: force against you as well. The case I'm talking about

1196
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: only applies to personal property, but by extension, I can

1197
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: see the prosecutor making that same argument. But that's what

1198
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: we're down to. That's what is going to happen in

1199
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: this case is was the person justified in using reasonable

1200
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: force to prevent the imminent use of unlawful force against him.

1201
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to snatch your ass across that counter. Could

1202
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: a jury decide, yes, you're absolutely preventing the unlawful use

1203
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: of force against yourself. Could that then justify that and

1204
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: accept that out of the pointing a firearm statute? Yes,

1205
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: it certainly could. And I'll tell you what. We've got

1206
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: less than a minute. No, No, we've got a little

1207
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: less than two minutes. I believe we have one more

1208
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 1: caller on the phone line. Let's quickly go to the

1209
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: phone lines and bring in. Is it David, David, Welcome

1210
01:11:59,000 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: to the Gun Guy show Man.

1211
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 2: Just to find a little image.

1212
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: David, are you there? But you need to turn your

1213
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: radio or your TV dove, I turned it off. Okay,

1214
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: what you got?

1215
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 2: Well, I just I got a musselel loader that I've

1216
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 2: had for twenty years or so. Like that buddy of

1217
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: mine to give me some firewood and about a rick

1218
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 2: of firewoods and stuff like that, and I thought I'd

1219
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 2: reciprocate by giving him a mussle loader bitch a caliber buseloader.

1220
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,799
Speaker 2: But I didn't know what kind of if or anything

1221
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: I had to hoops. I had to jump tough to

1222
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 2: do that.

1223
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: No, we actually talked about this issue earlier in the show, David,

1224
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 1: as long as and there are actually some exceptions to

1225
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: this for some muzzle loaders. But let's just assume that

1226
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: qualifies as a firearm as long as you don't have

1227
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: any reason to believe that person you're giving the gun

1228
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: to is prohibited from buying his own gun. In other words,

1229
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: he's not a felon, he's not a domestic abuser or

1230
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: anybody like that. Unless you know that he's prohibited from

1231
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: buying his own gun. You can give a gun as

1232
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: a gift in Indiana and that's totally completely legal. Did

1233
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 1: that answer your question? Absolutely? All right? Brother, Hey, thanks

1234
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: for calling. That's going to bring us to the end

1235
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: of the show. Thanks so much to our callers, Thanks

1236
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 1: to our tech guys, including producer Gavin, for fighting through

1237
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 1: the technical issues. I think we made it through relatively unscathed.

1238
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to the Gun Guy Show

1239
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 1: here in ninety three WIBC. Remember, always shoot straight, Always

1240
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: be safe.