1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: It's the Hammer of Nigel Show. Hello, my name is Nigel. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Jason Hammer is here. One of the things that's completely 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: disappeared from the national headlines in the current news cycle, 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: and somewhat understandably so I get it there's a war 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: with Iran, especially with the events that unfolded last night 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: or didn't unfold, But one of the things that's completely 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: disappeared is the case of Jeffrey Ebstein, something we've been 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: talking about on this show forever. We're never going to 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: let it go. We're going to keep it on the forefront, 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: and I just don't know if we'll ever see any 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: justice for any of the victims. I don't know if 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: we'll see any justice for the perpetrators. For that, we 13 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: will go to a Joe d Neil, child abuse expert 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: and survivor. Thank you so much for joining us on 15 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: the Hammery Nigel Show. 16 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for. 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: The honor of being here, and to discuss this issue 18 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: openly with you is truly a dream come true. 19 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, and I appreciate that. Maybe just a 20 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: little bit about your background before we get in to it. 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: Sure, I grew up in a legal family. My dad 22 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: was a trial lawyer. 23 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: I grew up in the criminal courthouse, and I twice 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 3: prosecuted crimes against children, which is a specialized discipline that 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 3: trains the prosecutor how to present these cases to juries. 26 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: I tried more than one hundred cases to Nor Texas 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 3: jurys and learned a lot about perpetrators and professional expert testimony. 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: But most importantly, I learned that the smallest among us 29 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 3: are most often the bravest among us. 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: Jo d tell me exactly where we are now, where 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: the legal system is now with Jeffrey Ebstein, the survivors 32 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: of his abuse, and the other people that are walking 33 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: around free that actually perpetrated that abuse. 34 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: What a great question. 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: On this question, I want to highlight the glaring system 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: failure that is spotlighted right now. In my opinion, there 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: is plenty of a reasonable suspicion contained in these files. 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 3: We have access to three point five million pages of documents. 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 3: Out of my understanding is about fixed and reasonable suspicion 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: is the lowest burden that a detective would have to 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: have in order to get a warrant for a cell 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: phone or a computer of a perpetrator. It is enough 43 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: to unpanel a grand jury the grand jury would then 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: do a probable cause investigation, and those proceedings are secret. 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: All of this could be investigated through grand jury satinas 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: grand jury testimony. 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: There could be a. 48 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 3: Team work in these files, but my understanding is that 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 3: there's not. In fact, my understanding is this has been 50 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: openly stated that is not a priority for the administration, 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: and so you are going to have millions. 52 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: I want you to just take this in. What I'm 53 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: about to say. The most recent CDC. 54 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: Data says that fifty seven million, seven hundred and forty 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: eight thousand American women have survived contact sexual violence in 56 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: the United States, plus one. 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: In six men. 58 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 3: Plus we know that twenty five percent of all little 59 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: girls will be sexually abused before they turn eighteen. 60 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: That's also a CDC statistic. 61 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: Wow, So every single one of these victims is watching 62 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: the complete inaction by the administration and feeling the trade, 63 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: and they're thinking to themselves, why would I ever tell Oh. 64 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, multiple administrations. Now do you know if there's been 65 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: any compensation for the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Galaine 66 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: Maxwell and what happened on that island? Has there been 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: any monetary compensation? Not that I'm saying that that absolves 68 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: anybody of anything, but has there been any sort of 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: compensation or retribution? 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: Yes, And to learn more about that, I would highly 71 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: recommend picking up Virginia Jewfrey's book Nobody's Girl. I call 72 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 3: her Saint Virginia because what she has done for all 73 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 3: survivors across the world is nothing short of seibnik. What 74 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: happened was is civil lawsuits were brought over time, and 75 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 3: many of those settled in the early days, but also 76 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: when Jeffrey Epstein perish see however it was it happened Ye, 77 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: the state had a fund that had claimants, and my 78 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: understanding is that non disclosure agreements were most likely deployed, 79 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: and that's why we really have a pretty limited number 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: of survivors who are openly at educating for additional release 81 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: of the files. Now, non disclosure agreements are becoming illegal 82 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: on a national level thanks to my friend Elizabeth Phillips 83 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: and her work through trade law. But up until right now, 84 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: I believe that there have been civil payments, which generally 85 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 3: non disclosure silence is the price you pay for whatever 86 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: pittance you're able to obtain through a settlement or a fund. 87 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: Are there other countries that are more active in pursuing 88 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: people that have taken advantage of what went on at 89 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: Epstein Island committed crimes against young girls on Epstein Island. 90 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the United States. I'm talking about 91 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 1: now other countries going after people from various places around 92 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: the world. 93 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, in France they have rated a couple of 94 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: private offices the names of the actors being found in 95 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: the Epstein files. Norway is under extreme scrutiny right now 96 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: their monarchy due to being mentioned in the files. And 97 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: I don't mean to tell. 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: You about that famous picture of Prince Andrew. 99 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: I think it's very inspiring the way that they've handled 100 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: this because they actually used. 101 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 2: Information from the Epstein files. 102 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: Exactly as I've described, using reasonable suspicion probable cause to 103 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: implicate him for sort of like trade secrets. He would 104 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: obtain special information through his position as a monarchy about 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: business transactions, company sales, et cetera, high level business stuff globally, 106 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: and he would just forward those emails to Epstein, who 107 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 3: then would act on the insider training effectively to make 108 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 3: his clients wealthy. And so, you know, I think there's 109 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: a lot of crime in those files that needs to 110 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: be looked at, and maybe if it's not a sex 111 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 3: case to be pursued, can be a financial crime, a 112 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 3: white collar crime, even that banks have been held more accountable. 113 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, and big picture here we speaking with Joe D. Neil, 114 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: a child abuse expert. You could find her work at 115 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: neilnowlegal dot com. I think the bigger picture here is 116 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: that there are still people. We know there were crimes committed, 117 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: we know we have victims, we know there were judgments 118 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: in their favor, so which also means that there are 119 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: criminals walking around. I'm assuming very rich, very powerful criminals. 120 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: Do you have a certain profile of the type of 121 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: person and who was actually perpetrating these crimes against the 122 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: young women. 123 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: That's a great question. 124 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 3: In Epstein specifically, I believe that Epstein was a broker 125 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: of child flesh, and I believe that that was part 126 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: of the reason to do business with Epstein is because 127 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: he would make arrangements with you for you to have 128 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 3: whatever it was you wanted. 129 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: And I believe that based largely on Virginia's. 130 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: You Phrase book, and she describes the level of perpetrator 131 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: who Epstein associated with. And it's true Epstein was not 132 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: the guy who was hanging out with the little league 133 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: softball coach, you know, the little girls soccer coach. 134 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: He was he was hanging out with, you know, the 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Israel at the time, or I hope 136 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: I got that right. I don't want them to come 137 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: find me. 138 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: You know, hotel type owners, I mean. 139 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: High level people. 140 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: Hill Gates is in the files, Prince Andrew's in the files. 141 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 2: And so I've come to believe that this is the. 142 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: New big game, hunting for the ultra elite. You know, 143 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: we know the ultra wealthy do not like planned by 144 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: average people laws. We know they think that rules don't 145 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: apply to them, and that this would have been the 146 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: equivalent of. 147 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: You going to Africa and bagging a big lion. And 148 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: so I put nothing past anybody at this point. 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: Where do we go from here? I mean, how difficult 150 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: is it to win a criminal prosecution, especially I mean 151 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,119 Speaker 1: we're talking decades after the crimes. We know Gallaine Maxwell, 152 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's right hand woman, so to speak, who would 153 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: procure some of these young women, befriend them and or 154 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: groom them, going so far as to get her own 155 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: pilot's license. She learned how to fly a helicopter so 156 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: she herself could fly these girls to Epstein Island. How 157 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: hard is it to win prosecutions decades after these crimes. 158 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: The burden of proof in any criminal court in the 159 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: United States, from traffic court to federal court is beyond 160 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: a reasonable doubt. 161 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: Yes, and that is burden of proof that is not 162 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: one hundred percent. It can be done. I did it 163 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: when I was in my twenties in Texas. 164 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 3: You can prove a criminal case and I have using 165 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: a child's testimony, one child alone, beyond a reasonable doubt. 166 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it's eyewitness. 167 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: And we cannot let the criminals who choose the circumstances 168 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 3: by which they're going to commit crimes and the extent 169 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 3: to which they're going to leave behind evidence decide who 170 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: gets prosecuted and who doesn't. If the jury believes the 171 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: testimony of one witness beyond a reasonable doubt, then that 172 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 3: is enough to support. 173 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: A conviction in the state of Texas. So it is 174 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: not impossible. 175 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: It's not nearly as impossible as the DOJ is making 176 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: it out to be. 177 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 2: And they keep saying, you know. 178 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: There wasn't enough evidence to support a conviction. That's not 179 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: the analysis that needs to be made. Is there reasonable 180 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: suspicion to launch a grand jury investigation? That's the question, 181 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: and then let's do the grand jury investigation. If you 182 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: don't think there's enough for a conviction right now from 183 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: a bunch of half redacted files, then let's actually investigate it. Okay, 184 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: because the message that everyone in America in the world 185 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 3: is getting right now is that our government is complicit 186 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: in a cover up. 187 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: That is worst case scenario. 188 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: Best case scenario is we don't have the resources to 189 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 3: take on a billionaire who traffic children. 190 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: Who are we if we can't do something like that? 191 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: We're the United States of America. This is our Bailey 192 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: Wick and we need to get to business. 193 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: Her book is called Outcry Witness. Her name is Joe 194 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: d Neil, Child Abuse Expert. If people would like to 195 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: find out anything more about you or what you do, 196 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: how can people get ahold of you? 197 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 198 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 3: Jodyneil dot com is also on the interwebs. 199 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of media. 200 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 3: I have a podcast, Outcry Witness Unspoken. 201 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: I would be happy to talk. 202 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 3: To anyone who is personally involved with this crime, and uh, 203 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: you know, I'm talking to survivors and this is my 204 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: this is my mission, is to clear to clear some 205 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 3: evil out of this. 206 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: World while I'm alive. 207 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: God bless you, Joe d Neil. Thank you so much 208 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: for taking the time, and please give us any updates 209 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: you have in the near future. We'd love to have you. 210 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: Back on I sure will anytime to keep my cell 211 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: phone number. 212 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: It's The Hammer and Nigel Show.