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Speaker 1: Hello. My name is Nigel Jason Hammer. Right across from

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Speaker 1: me with a very special in studio guest.

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Speaker 2: The governor of the Great State of Indiana is Governor

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Speaker 2: Mike Brawn. We want to be respectful of your time.

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Speaker 2: I know there's a lot going on, so we're gonna

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Speaker 2: kind of dive right into it here. Disregard Nige and

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Speaker 2: I if we have a few drinks of beers in between.

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Speaker 2: But your thoughts on the leader of the Senate in Indiana,

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Speaker 2: Senate pro Tim rod Bray, coming out on Friday saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't really care what the governor has to say.

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Speaker 2: We don't have the votes, so there won't be a

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Speaker 2: special session under my watch. Now I'm paraphrasing that, but

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Speaker 2: that in essence was his message. Your thoughts, I've could.

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Speaker 3: Be more concerned about what you're doing when the President

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Speaker 3: of the United States calls you out for something that

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Speaker 3: he's made very clear that he wants to get it done.

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Speaker 3: And I think that is probably more proublesome and it

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Speaker 3: would be what his future is like. And today was

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Speaker 3: a lot of action, you know, or day, and as

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Speaker 3: we were talking earlier, and I don't think he knew that,

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Speaker 3: but the House is coming back to do maps and

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Speaker 3: they're coming in, so they're going to be sending something

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Speaker 3: over to the Senate. And then a rebuke of half

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Speaker 3: his caucus when they had that vote on whether to

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Speaker 3: come back or not, and he had to get Democrats

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Speaker 3: to go along with him to have the vote scheduled

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Speaker 3: or to come back into session in January. So nineteen

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Speaker 3: we're on the roll call against him, and another senator

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Speaker 3: didn't make the roll call vote that said he would.

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Speaker 3: So that's half of his caucus voted against him. So

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Speaker 3: he's losing control of his own caucus. And when you're

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Speaker 3: being touted by the Washington Post and places like that,

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Speaker 3: they just standing strong. What is that setting him as god?

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post editorial board praising Indiana leaders for standing

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Speaker 1: up to Trump, well, exactly that is. I saw that headline,

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Speaker 1: I was like, uh, that is not endearing to Like

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post is such a liberal, horrible rag. And boy,

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Speaker 1: when I saw that headline, I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be I wouldn't want to be associated with.

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Speaker 3: Next to be Axios and Politico. And when they're noticing

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Speaker 3: it from out there, you talk about getting somebody irritated.

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Speaker 3: In the Oval office that will do it. So, uh,

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Speaker 3: he's in a place now where he probably calculated he

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have to be. I think I told you a

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Speaker 3: week ago this is the beginning of the discussion. And

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Speaker 3: the reason he abruptly said they weren't going to do

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Speaker 3: it is we were getting that close. The White House

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Speaker 3: lists and ours with this public yes in private yes

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Speaker 3: was somewhere around twenty one or twenty two, and that

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Speaker 3: was over a week ago. So the momentum had so

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Speaker 3: much forward momentum to it that that is when he

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Speaker 3: decided I had to put the brakes on because it

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Speaker 3: could have tipped over to where now twenty are formally

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Speaker 3: going against him on a public row call vote, so

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Speaker 3: or on the vote to go back into session in January?

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Speaker 2: So, Governor, does it feel personal with the Senate pro

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Speaker 2: Tim rod Bray at this point? Because the two biggest

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Speaker 2: things that we've talked about the last couple of years

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Speaker 2: have been property tax relief and now the changing of

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Speaker 2: the congressional maps, And you guys have kind of been

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Speaker 2: on opposite sides of the argument here. Is it frustrating

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Speaker 2: to you? Does it feel personal to you?

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Speaker 3: Well? I don't let it become personal or frustrating. In

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Speaker 3: building a business over thirty seven years, lots of times

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Speaker 3: when you have your own bottom on the line financial

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Speaker 3: in you're struggling, that's a bigger deal. Running for office

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Speaker 3: as a state rep and beating two sitting congressmen and

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Speaker 3: a sitting senator that was hard. And let's say five

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Speaker 3: months of negative advertising that you are heartless, a hypocrite,

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Speaker 3: and a liar based on nothing. This is someone making

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Speaker 3: a miscalculation that for some genteel purpose. When the President

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Speaker 3: has talked to him twice, vice President has come in twice,

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Speaker 3: and he's trying to justify that there's not a need

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Speaker 3: to do something because he's not in the mood to

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Speaker 3: do it. And then today when the House broke with

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Speaker 3: the Senate, that's the biggest news of the day. So

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Speaker 3: he is getting cornered more and more. And why you

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Speaker 3: would dig in. You need to bring this vote to

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Speaker 3: the public forum, get the maps that they're going to

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Speaker 3: be sent to him, get him across the finish line

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Speaker 3: or else that he's going to be dealing with. Him

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Speaker 3: and his whole bunch of folks that have held out

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Speaker 3: to where they had to have Democrats today, get him

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Speaker 3: across the finish line. They're going to be looking at

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Speaker 3: longer term political consequences, and Trump's made that very clear.

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Speaker 3: And you've got our entire Republican delegation that's for it.

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Speaker 3: You got one of our two senators, Jim Banks, that's

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Speaker 3: out there. Young, I think is probably softly for it.

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Speaker 3: Our state office holders. I mean, you're going against everyone,

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Speaker 3: Republicans across the country and here in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what it was like seeing your name. You know,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump put out that true social posts and mentioned you.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's mentioned Bray and good, but you were

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Speaker 1: mentioned in that too, and then you had a phone

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Speaker 1: call with the president later a day or two later.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what that was. It was a good phone call.

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Speaker 1: Were you expecting that tweet? I mean, like, were you like,

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Speaker 1: did you know that was coming? Blake.

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Speaker 3: So it tells me that this is priority number one

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Speaker 3: for him and he wants everyone to be engaged. Probably

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Speaker 3: doesn't understand fully the dynamics of how this works. I

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Speaker 3: can call the session in and then the rest is

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Speaker 3: jaw boning and arm twisting, and I think he's wanting everyone,

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Speaker 3: including me, to take that to the limit. And that's

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Speaker 3: going to occur, and the biggest change in the whole

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Speaker 3: dynamic occurred today when Speaker of the House who said

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Speaker 3: they had the votes just formalized it by their coming

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Speaker 3: back in December to give us some maps. That happening

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Speaker 3: was a game changer. And now he digs in with

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Speaker 3: another statement that acts like, well, that may not make

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Speaker 3: a difference. The heat gets turned up and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to guess we're in the second inning now.

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Speaker 2: Kevin and Mike Brawn joining us here on the hammer

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Speaker 2: in Nigel Show. I've heard from some people that's say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this changing in the congressional maps. It's something that I

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Speaker 2: might be in favor of, but it's not going to

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Speaker 2: change my life one way or another. There were only

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Speaker 2: two areas in Indiana where this might create a change,

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Speaker 2: Central Indie with Andre Carson being my rep. And then

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Speaker 2: the Frank Mervan area up north. What's your response when

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Speaker 2: people say, why pick this battle? Why get Washington involved

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Speaker 2: into this battle? Where was this moxie when it came

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Speaker 2: to property taxes and all these other issues.

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Speaker 3: So the battle was picked by the president in terms

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Speaker 3: of doing it, and Texas did it, Missouri did it,

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Speaker 3: North Carolina did it. So you should be able to

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Speaker 3: put two and two together there, and they asked us

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Speaker 3: to do it, and it was probably three months ago,

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Speaker 3: and we were picking them off in a way that

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Speaker 3: had an organic process to it. Time became an issue

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Speaker 3: when I saw that Bray looked like he was going

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Speaker 3: to try to run out the clock. That is when

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Speaker 3: I decided to call it a special session because at

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Speaker 3: that point both the White House and our accounting showed

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Speaker 3: us at twenty one to twenty two senators, fourteen public,

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Speaker 3: six or seven private. Yes, that is the move that

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Speaker 3: he made that I think was a mistake because he

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Speaker 3: thought by not doing it, he then could delay it

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Speaker 3: or it doesn't get done. That is what irritated the president.

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Speaker 3: It irritated me, and picking the battle on property taxes.

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Speaker 3: Got to remember that was SB one. Then he and

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Speaker 3: his leadership team gutted it, so we had to spend

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Speaker 3: three months to get it back to where it was.

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Speaker 3: Didn't please everyone, but most people when they know that

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Speaker 3: their home is going to be exempted sixty six percent

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Speaker 3: of it in five years, and you couldn't have jerked

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Speaker 3: the money away immediately. The loudest complainers are Republican local

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Speaker 3: government officials believe it or not. So that was the

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Speaker 3: best we were going to get. It wasn't worth starting over.

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Speaker 3: And you can why because look who we're dealing with.

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Speaker 3: This guy is now digging in against the President of

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Speaker 3: the United States, the VP, and look what he's doing,

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Speaker 3: and he's cornering himself in a place that is not good.

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Speaker 1: And look, I keep on theorizing, you know, the midterms

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Speaker 1: come and go next year, and what if the Democrats

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Speaker 1: have the majority by one or two Roden Ray, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's what I keep saying. I'm thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: that something could have been done to change that. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm speculating.

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Speaker 3: As interesting as this whole dynamic is, yes, you could

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Speaker 3: almost have crafted a novel around it. In terms of

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Speaker 3: state politics, federal involvement could very well be the case.

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Speaker 3: The merits why to do it. Six bluest states in

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Speaker 3: the country are in New England other than California, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 3: exactly like US, has been gerrymandered to where they haven't

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Speaker 3: had a Republican in nearly two decades. They control three

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Speaker 3: times as many electoral votes as the six retis do. Dakota's, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana.

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Speaker 3: A lot of them have one congressional district. It makes sense.

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Speaker 3: And the Democrats of gerrymandered this as part of their

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Speaker 3: program and they don't have much more to do. That's

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Speaker 3: why they're raising so much cain about it. But yes,

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Speaker 3: we generally lose a few seats in this dynamic, and

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Speaker 3: it could come down to where if we don't do

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Speaker 3: it the one or two seats. Now it's nine to zero.

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Speaker 3: We're going to get it there, and we need to

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Speaker 3: deliver it. And that's what they've done in every instance, analogous.

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Speaker 2: To ours last thing here before we let you go.

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Speaker 2: It seems like we're always talking about special sessions with

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Speaker 2: you for one reason or the other. Last year, again

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Speaker 2: it was about property tax. Now we're talking about congressional

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Speaker 2: maps changing in Indiana. So do you feel like there's

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Speaker 2: a better chance of these maps being changed than a

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Speaker 2: year ago getting the property tax relief that we all want.

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Speaker 2: Because you said at that point that special session was

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Speaker 2: a waste of time.

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Speaker 3: I would say that was seeing into the future. If

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Speaker 3: you were going to get a special session with any

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Speaker 3: cooperation on that issue, no, it would have been here.

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Speaker 3: You got the President, the VP, the governor, and they're

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Speaker 3: digging in. There's no way that would have happened.

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Speaker 2: Governor. Reappreciate your time. I know you've got another couple

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Speaker 2: of events to do here