1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: I have never been one to not speak about my judaism,

2
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,240
Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever discussed the idea of faith.

3
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,040
Speaker 1: For me, that's not my conversation as I approach things

4
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 1: here on the show, as I approach things in my life,

5
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,000
Speaker 1: my judaism is there, But I talk about logic. They're

6
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,599
Speaker 1: always about reason. They're always about what is the principle

7
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 1: for which we are standing engaging, And sometimes that principle

8
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,959
Speaker 1: does have it's faith components. But I find myself always

9
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 1: on the conversation of to each their faith and let

10
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: them have it and have at it. That is different

11
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: than you should keep it in the home and quiet

12
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:48,800
Speaker 1: and not for the world.

13
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 2: I don't believe that at all.

14
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: Tony Katz, Tony Kats today, good to be with you

15
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: into the discussion of the.

16
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 2: Assassination of Charlie Kirk yesterday.

17
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: At the age of thirty one, as he was speaking

18
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 1: at Utah Valley University.

19
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 2: He was not one.

20
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 1: To share that view. We were not friends, We did

21
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: not know each other. We met once that I remember,

22
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 1: But he was someone who spoke of his faith regularly.

23
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: Josh Hammer joins me right now. Newsweek Senior editor at large,

24
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: host of the Josh Hammer Show.

25
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,839
Speaker 2: Josh writes frequently.

26
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,920
Speaker 1: He has written about anti Semitism, writes about our political

27
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: climate and culture. And as you had posted on Twitter

28
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 1: X yesterday, you have a book coming out and you

29
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 1: were speaking with Charlie about it, and Charlie was going

30
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: to be utilizing the book and sharing information about the

31
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 1: book on this tour that he was doing, the American.

32
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 2: Comeback Tour and all the colleges that he would go to.

33
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 2: I did not know you guys were that close.

34
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: So let's start with your thoughts on Charlie Kirk and

35
00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 1: this horrific assassination that took place.

36
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 3: Always going to chat with you. Yeah. So my book

37
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 3: actually came out earlier this year in March, Israel and Civilization,

38
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 3: The Fate of the Jewish Nation, The Death of the West.

39
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 3: I went on the Charlie Kirk Show on the publication

40
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 3: day of the book, actually, and I signed a copy

41
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,280
Speaker 3: of the book for Charlie when I saw him in person,

42
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 3: I guess for the last time, just over a month

43
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 3: ago up in New York. So we were in close

44
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,800
Speaker 3: touch about these issues pertaining to use, his relations, Jewish

45
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 3: Christian relations, rising anti Semitism. I've known Charlie for years.

46
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 3: I first got to know him a little bit when

47
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 3: I was the opinion editor and Newsweek. Now I have

48
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,240
Speaker 3: a different title, but I was running the op ed section.

49
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 3: Charlie was actually a regular columnist for US for a

50
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 3: while there, so I first got to know him through that.

51
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 3: And then he first invited me to do a Turning

52
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,639
Speaker 3: Points conference event back in twenty twenty one, and he

53
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 3: loved the event we did so much that we immediately

54
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,959
Speaker 3: ran downstairs afterwards do an additional hour bonus, which he

55
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 3: for his podcast. And we kind of got closer over

56
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 3: the past year, year and a half or so, and

57
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 3: it got to the point where we were essentially daily

58
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 3: communication about all these issues. And it's true that I

59
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 3: spoke with him, I guess to the final time, less

60
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:24,080
Speaker 3: than twenty four hours before a cowardly assassin gunned him down.

61
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,239
Speaker 3: We were doing a little little just little zoom powout

62
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 3: just in advance of this campus tour. This is the

63
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 3: very first event of what was supposed to be a prolonged,

64
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 3: lengthy campus tours. It was the very first event, and

65
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 3: we you know, he asked for me and a couple

66
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 3: others kind of try to give him you know, good

67
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 3: talking points, you know, good arguments when it comes to

68
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 3: the inevitable, inevitable anti Semitism and anti Israel sentiments that

69
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 3: now kind of flows out of a lot of these

70
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 3: campus events these days. And he had joked me, he said,

71
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 3: you know, Josh, just you know, points to your book.

72
00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 3: He said, Josh, I'm going to help you sell so

73
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 3: many book copies on this book. So we had gotten close.

74
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 3: He was a really really remarkable person, Tony, And you know,

75
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: I think at some point soon I will be able

76
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 3: to take some solace in all that he did and

77
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,840
Speaker 3: be able to double down in my motivation to do

78
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 3: that which I can to further all the causes that he held, dear,

79
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 3: But today is really just a day where I'm still

80
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: in grief, in mourning, and it's just really difficult times.

81
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 1: Talking to Josh Hammer of Newsweek, now we've talked about

82
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 1: the book.

83
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 2: I had you on to discuss the book. I didn't

84
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 2: realize it was.

85
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: The same book Israel and Civilization, The Fate of the

86
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 1: Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West. You can

87
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 1: get that at Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold.

88
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was the same book.

89
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: That was being referenced my mistake there, but the very

90
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 1: conversation of faith which has been on the uptick. And

91
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 1: I have heard about more people coming to Catholicism than

92
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 1: I ever have ever.

93
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,599
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, the Jews are over here

94
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,520
Speaker 2: and we have great food, but still coming to the Catholicism.

95
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,720
Speaker 1: This engagement of faith and TOTO and really this public

96
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,839
Speaker 1: expression of faith, I don't ever lie being somebody with

97
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 1: a with over public expressions of faith is not my way.

98
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I discuss my Judaism here, but I don't engage.

99
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 2: It's not a.

100
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: Daily part of what I do or how people would

101
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: think of me, my brand, how they know me. But

102
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: it certainly was for Charlie as you see American engage conversations.

103
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: Is it just that part of the world that was

104
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 1: paying attention to Charlie Kirk paying attention to the campus

105
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,560
Speaker 1: tours or do you think that there is a real

106
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,560
Speaker 1: faith resurgence going on in America?

107
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 3: Charlie was a particularly important voice from a safe perspective

108
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,039
Speaker 3: in this exact moment that we find ourselves in, Tony.

109
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 3: And let me explain why that is so. First of all,

110
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,240
Speaker 3: let me just say what ought to be obvious, or

111
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 3: perhaps isn't for everyone. He genuinely was a person of

112
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 3: sincere faith. There are a lot of people in elected

113
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:11,279
Speaker 3: Republican politics and conservative media who call themselves Christians but

114
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 3: don't necessarily walk the walk that is taught the talk.

115
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 3: Charlie was a genuine, sincerely believing, devouts evangelic Christian. He

116
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,280
Speaker 3: genuinely believed Scripture to to be the ineffable word of God.

117
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 3: And I think even more relevant for that for the

118
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,479
Speaker 3: current moment we find ourselves in, is that his form

119
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 3: of Christianity, his form of Prosentism, was the prosentism the

120
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,359
Speaker 3: Christianity of the American Founding. I actually was just speaking

121
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 3: about this tony literally last week at the National Conservative

122
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 3: and Conference in Washington, DC. My speech at the conference

123
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 3: was titled the Hebrew Bible and Western Civilization, and I

124
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 3: was basically making an appeal to Protestants and Evangelicals to

125
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 3: recover the Christianity of the American Founding, which rooted itself

126
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 3: in the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, as opposed to

127
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,040
Speaker 3: some of the more fringe stuff that we see from

128
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,240
Speaker 3: the folks of Tucker, Carlston and so forth. Charlie had

129
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 3: the same Christianity of the American Founding. I mean, this

130
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 3: is a man Tony who literally observed his version of Shabbat,

131
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 3: the Jewish Sabbath, from Friday night to Saturday night. Charlie

132
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 3: Kirk would turn his phone off, you know, tarly before

133
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 3: you and I came on. I watched this amazing clip,

134
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 3: this two inn eclip on Instagram. For the first time,

135
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 3: he and his wife Erica getting asked a question about

136
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 3: this exact point about cuthon the Sabbath and the way

137
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 3: that he was talking about it, about how God created

138
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 3: the world in six days the seventh days for us.

139
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 3: He's literally sounded like an Orthodox Jew. And this is

140
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 3: someone who has repeatedly said that with Torah, the Five

141
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 3: Books of Moses is the underpinning not merely of Judaism

142
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 3: but his own Christian faith. He speaks movingly, or he

143
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 3: spoke movingly about how he used to study Torah with

144
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 3: Dennis Praeger, one of his mentors. Another one of his

145
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,120
Speaker 3: mentors was the great late David Horowitz, who was also

146
00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 3: a profound champion of the Christian Alliance and the US

147
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 3: Israel Alliance. This was really really core to Charlie's identity.

148
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 3: He was a robust, robust member of team civilization versus

149
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,440
Speaker 3: Team barbarism. And he understood that it's not merely Christendom,

150
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 3: it's not merely Christianity that wrote the religion that's built

151
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 3: Western civilization. It's not merely the Christians who are part

152
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 3: of this Western civilization alliance. He completely intuited and understood

153
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 3: that the original people of the book, the Jewish people,

154
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 3: have a very special role to play in this alliance

155
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,240
Speaker 3: as well. And that's one of the many reasons, many

156
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 3: reasons why his loss is just so devastating at this time,

157
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,199
Speaker 3: because there are a lot of folks out there, a

158
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 3: lot of provocateurist propagandists who are trying really hard this

159
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 3: moment to not merely distance the US MI Israel, but

160
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,320
Speaker 3: trying to distance Christians from Jews, and Charlie was one

161
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,440
Speaker 3: of the most important voices, arguably the single most important

162
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 3: voice in the country trying to keep that alliance together.

163
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 3: Are trying to heal that gap, trying to heal any

164
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 3: wounds that were festering there. And you know, I just

165
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 3: pray Tony that his version of Christianity ultimately prevails in

166
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,839
Speaker 3: America and not Tucker Carlson's version of Christianity, because that

167
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 3: would look quite a bit different, not just for the Jews,

168
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:17,080
Speaker 3: but for America itself.

169
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,440
Speaker 1: Talking to Josh Hammer of Newsweek, that story the Hebrew

170
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 1: Bible and Western civilization. You can find that at newsweek

171
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: dot com. A preview of the Josh Hammer Report. You

172
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 1: can check that out for yourself. It'll come straight into

173
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,440
Speaker 1: your inbox if you subscribe, and you should do so immediately,

174
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 1: if not sooner. We could get into a conversation about

175
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,679
Speaker 1: the provocatories. We could talk about what has happened with

176
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson and which is obscene, and certainly Candice Owens,

177
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 1: which maybe was always there, certainly, but rather sticking with

178
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: the focus here, sticking with Charlie Kirkin, sticking with what

179
00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,439
Speaker 1: has taken place with the crowds that would ga and

180
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:07,360
Speaker 1: the impact had you saw that that impact take place?

181
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 1: The question that I got to not was whether or

182
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 1: not he was an important voice, which I don't disagree with,

183
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 1: but rather have you seen a faith impact on the

184
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 1: same student body that would show up to these you know,

185
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: prove me wrong events where really a large amount of

186
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: it was watching Charlie bat around a progressive nonsense like

187
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: a cat with a mouse.

188
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 3: Well, Charlie knew what he was doing. I mean, he

189
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,559
Speaker 3: knew what he was doing when he was putting himself

190
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 3: on these canvases. Now I'm not to say that he

191
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 3: knew that he was subjecting himself to a two hundred

192
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,160
Speaker 3: yard sniper assassin's rifle, and that's obviously not what I'm saying,

193
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 3: but he knew that he was going into the lines.

194
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 3: Then he was well aware of that. That was a

195
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 3: big part of what he was trying to do. Actually,

196
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 3: I mean, it was not his intent to simply try

197
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,480
Speaker 3: to to just talk with those parts of the right

198
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,720
Speaker 3: wing conservative cause. Already, he was not just trying to

199
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,280
Speaker 3: talk to turning point in USA campus activists. He was

200
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,200
Speaker 3: actively trying to elicit, trying to draw out folks who

201
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 3: robustly disagreed with him on all drubin issues, transgenderism, abortion, immigration,

202
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,599
Speaker 3: you name it. And those are his most viral eclips

203
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,599
Speaker 3: over the years are the left wing students who profoundly

204
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 3: disagreed with him, and he was trying to, among other things,

205
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 3: model in example, he was trying to model not merely

206
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 3: courage and conviction, and standing for truth and principle in

207
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 3: his Christian faith and conservatism. But he also was trying

208
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 3: to model a robust with civil exchange of ideas. I mean, Tony,

209
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 3: he literally died as a martyr for free speech. That

210
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 3: is literally what happened yesterday in Utah. Was he sitting

211
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,959
Speaker 3: under this canopy that says, prove me wrong. So he's

212
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 3: trying to elicit in a free speech dialogue leftist to

213
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 3: prove him wrong. He believed robustly in free speech. This

214
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 3: is actually one of the things, to be clear. I

215
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 3: also for free speech, but sometimes when it comments aneti

216
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,080
Speaker 3: semitism on campus Title six. You know, we had some

217
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 3: nuanced disagreements over the limits of free speech versus incitement

218
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 3: and so forth there. But he was a true free

219
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,120
Speaker 3: speech absolutist. He believed in that with every single fiver

220
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 3: of his being. And look, I mean talking about, you know,

221
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,439
Speaker 3: gutting someone down the crown in his life at age

222
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 3: thirty one, a young father and husband. It's unconscionably horrific.

223
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 3: It's just absolutely awful. But I guess there's any silver

224
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 3: line to this whatsoever. It's that he died as a

225
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 3: martyr for one of the most cherished ideals that he held,

226
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 3: which was the right to civil exchange and free speech, which,

227
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,839
Speaker 3: by the way, we have a long ways to go

228
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,040
Speaker 3: really to recover that tradition here in America, that is

229
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 3: for sure, but Charlie's doing more than anyone make sure

230
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,839
Speaker 3: that hopefully happens.

231
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody dying as martyrs to ensure that

232
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 1: we have free speech and the ability to engage, which

233
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 1: leads us to what's next. You know, the amount of

234
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: people who reach out to me to ask me if

235
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm okay?

236
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 3: All right?

237
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: I do local radio, I do national radio, not as

238
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 1: big as Charlie Kirk by any stretch of the imagination,

239
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 1: asking if I'm okay, And the answer is, well, I'm

240
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,960
Speaker 1: as okay as anybody else. But eventually, if these people

241
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: feel in Bolden, they're going to come after everybody. And

242
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 1: I'm certainly on that list like you, Josh would be

243
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 1: on that list. So as you discussed with people, you

244
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: talk about this with people, will we still have about

245
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:38,600
Speaker 1: sixty seconds?

246
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,840
Speaker 2: What's your advice on how to proceed, Tony?

247
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 3: I don't have all the answers. Unfortunately, the problem that

248
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,079
Speaker 3: folks like you and I face is that a lot

249
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,040
Speaker 3: of this rod is coming from the left. The left

250
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 3: has a disroportionately hyperpensity to political violence. There are accountless

251
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,439
Speaker 3: examples now that prove that. And there's only so much

252
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,559
Speaker 3: that folks on the right can do to try to

253
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 3: get the left's own house in order. So that's part

254
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 3: of the frustrating part, is that I feel somewhat helpless.

255
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 3: A lot of this is ultimately going to be Democrats

256
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 3: and the left kind of policing their own political rhetoric

257
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 3: and so forth there. But all the folks that you

258
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 3: and I can do this moment is yes, grief for

259
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 3: a loss, but to double down on the mission to

260
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 3: make sure that none of this ever, ever, ever, ever,

261
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 3: ever goes to vane, ever goes to waste, and that

262
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 3: we just fight harder than ever for all the various ideals.

263
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 3: But Charlie and all of us on the right hold

264
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 3: to be so dear. You know, rule of law, one nation,

265
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,440
Speaker 3: under God, all men of creat equal secure borders, national sovereignty,

266
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. These are the ideals that motivated

267
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,080
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, and these are the ideals that should motivate

268
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,800
Speaker 3: you and I and all of our friends and allies

269
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 3: going forward.

270
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: Josh Hammer over there at newsweek dot com the book

271
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 1: Israel and Civilization, The Fate of the Jewish Nation and

272
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 1: the Destiny of the West. Find that at Amazon dot

273
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 1: com wherever fine books are sold. Josh, I appreciate it.

274
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: More coming up, I'm Tony Katz.