1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Line from Vall Hartlier and the Crossroads of America. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: It's very weird to see people in America wanting America 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: to fail. But there's a lot of this. There's a 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: ridiculous amount of this, a complete willingness to manufacture what's 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: happening on the ground in Iran, a complete willingness to 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: make the claim that we are behind the eight ball, 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: that we failed here, that somehow we don't have an 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: exit plant, even. 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: Though we may not have everything written down on paper, 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: that it's not satisfactory to them. 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: So therefore this is total bungling and everything's Vietnam all 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: over again. It's kind of remarkable to watch people make 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: these moves. 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: And it's not just on the left, it's on the 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: woke right as well. 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: And when you see pieces from Al Jazeera saying, you know, 18 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: the Iranians are really getting destroyed here. 19 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: What exactly are we looking at? What has happened lately? 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: And how is this war one? 21 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: Tony Kaks Tony Katz today, Good to be here, Good 22 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: to be with you. Chuck Devor joins us right now 23 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: from the Texas Public Policy Foundation, where he does a 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: great number of things. 25 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: He's the chief National Initiatives Officer. 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: He was there in the Reagan era Pentagon served in 27 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: the US military, rising to the rank of lieutenant colonel, 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: And Sir, you do a lot. You've been talking a 29 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: lot about this with the good people over there at 30 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: Fox News. Let's start with where we're at in this 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: military campaign, a little more than two weeks into this. 32 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: What exists or doesn't exist from the Iranian military? And 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: how do you categorize, as a guy who has seen 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: this happen before, how do you categorize how the US 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: military has maneuvered here. 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's start with the last question first. I'd 37 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 3: have to say it's just been superb. I mean, it's 38 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: unbelievable how well the US military, with their Israeli allies, 39 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 3: have functioned, keeping mistakes to a minimum, being ahead of 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: the time schedule, and really achieving some significant strategic effects. 41 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: So let's talk about those effects. You know, one of 42 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 3: the big worries as we started this war was Iran's 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 3: ballistic missile capability and their drone capability, and what you 44 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: see are two things. 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: It's like a virtuous cycle. 46 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: What's happening is is that the US, mostly the US, 47 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 3: and with some help from our Israeli allies, have been 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: destroying the mobile missile launchers as well as the drone 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 3: launching facilities or vehicles, storage sites, manufacturing centers, and so 50 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: what you've seen is the drone and missile fire both 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: have significantly decreased from just a little over two weeks ago, 52 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 3: over ninety percent. But there's another side of that equation, 53 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: which is the effectiveness of the interceptors not only aboard 54 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: US vessels but also in Israel and with our golf 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: Arab allies. And you're seeing the effectiveness of the interceptions 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: of the missiles and the drones go from you know, 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: in the high to mid eighties, low nineties, depending on 58 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 3: the system, to today we're consistently knocking down the drones 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: and missiles at a rate of ninety five to ninety 60 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: eight percent. Now, some of that is because there's a 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: slackening of fire from Iran, and some of that is 62 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: because we're getting better in the Israelis, the US and 63 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 3: the golf Arab allies are all getting really good at this, 64 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: including lastly Tony some very interesting information that we're getting 65 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: out of the golf Arab states where they're taking US 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: apache helicopters that we sold them, and they're using the 67 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: chain guns on those helicopters to shoot down. 68 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 4: The sh Had drones. 69 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: And so finally we have a low cost solution to 70 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 3: shooting down these very cheap and plentifbule drones, which is 71 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: just simply a fire from a helicopter. 72 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: Now, the idea of something being low tech doesn't mean 73 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: that it's bad tech, and really the drone conversation that 74 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: a conversation of cost effectiveness. 75 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: But the success that we're. 76 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: Having, you know, we've taken out the Solemoni class destroyers 77 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: I believe it is from the Iranians. There was the 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: sinking of another ship from a US sub which may 79 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: have been one of the Solomoni class. Talk to me 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: about what has actually been degraded, if not eliminated, by 81 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: US and Israeli forces thus far. 82 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So again, the importance of this cannot be overstated, 83 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,679 Speaker 3: which is that the entire Iranian navy is now combat 84 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: and effective. It's either at the bottom of the sea 85 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: or it's so damaged that it can't do anything. 86 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 4: And let me just say that. 87 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 3: There has not been one confirmed hit by a sea 88 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 3: mine in all of the days of combat that we've had. 89 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: There were some drones and some unknown attacks on the 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 3: you know, the upper side of a ship, but no 91 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 3: sea mines, and that was something that everyone was terribly 92 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 3: fearful of. And of course we've destroyed, uh, the vessels 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 3: that would disperse those mines. So that's number one. Number 94 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: two the air defense systems, and that isn't just the 95 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 3: missile launchers, but of course it's the radar and even 96 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 3: more importantly, the communications nodes that stitch it together as 97 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 3: a system, so that is completely gone. Number three, the 98 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: command and control capability of the I r GC. 99 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 4: That's the you know, the. 100 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 3: Rough equivalent to the Nazi s s in Iran, the 101 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: besiege militia UH, these terrible you know young you know, 102 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: kind of almost thinking like Lord of the Flies or 103 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: Hitler youth or something like that. So the leadership and 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: the command and control for the besiege militia UH, and 105 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: of course other traditional regime command and control, including of 106 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: course regime figures, right individuals who are the leaders of 107 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: this Iranian revolutionary kind of thuggish, corrupt dictatorship. And lastly, 108 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: the missile manufacturing and drone manufacturing facilities as well. 109 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 4: The latter of course, very. 110 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 3: Important for Putin and Russia to help their war against Ukraine, 111 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: because a significant number of the drones being used against 112 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 3: Ukraine where these Shahid drones from Iran, and so their 113 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: ability to manufacture those as well has been largely degraded. 114 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: And so lastly, what you're left with is you do 115 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: have large numbers of individuals who are supposedly still under 116 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: arms for the regime, but they've been decentralized. The Iranian 117 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: government decentralized the command and control as a defensive measure. 118 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: So it's hard to tell at this point just how 119 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: much control they have on the country and whether or 120 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 3: not the long suffering Iranian people, if they rose up, 121 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: might see some measure of success in certain regions. 122 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: Talking to Chuck Tivoor the Texas Public Policy Foundation and 123 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: writes extensively on these subjects, And you know, the taking 124 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: out of the IRGC, as we've discussed here, is everything. 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: You can't have the people making their moves take their 126 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: country back until the Islamic Revolutionary guardcore is destroyed. And 127 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: one of the ways they're destroyed is by hand to 128 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: hand combat, literally boots on the ground conversations. The other 129 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: way they're destroyed is by taking away the funding that 130 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: gives them the power to be there. That happens by 131 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: disrupting the oil flows and putting an end to hard currency. 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: This brings us to the conversation of Carg Island. Kharg. 133 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: We saw the bombing. 134 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: Raids that took place last week, taking out military assets, 135 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: but leaving the oil intact. Ninety percent of Iranian oil 136 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: goes to Carg Island, and that's how they're able to 137 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: get their dollars. We now hear about the USS Tripoli, 138 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: which is an amphibious assault ship heading its way to 139 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: Carg Island there in the Persian Gulf with twenty five 140 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: hundred marines to take the island. I make the argument 141 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: that that's very, very weird to telegraph that you're sending a 142 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: ship it's going to take two weeks ten days to 143 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: get there. Talk to me about Carg Island, the mission 144 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: that was successful in taking out if you think it's 145 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: successful in taking out any military installations on the island, 146 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: and can the capture of this island the ending of 147 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: oil flows. 148 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: Can this end the IRGC? 149 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, So let's go back a few days. 150 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: You may recall that there was a strike on some 151 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: oil refineries on the outskirts of Tehran. 152 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: By the Israelis. 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 4: I believe it was storage facilities as well. 154 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: Now why was that important, Well, because the refined product 155 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: that's used within Iran provides the IRGC with a steady 156 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: stream of income, and that steady stream of income has 157 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: largely ended with the destruction of those facilities. Now, of 158 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 3: course that didn't harm Iran's ability to export crude oil. 159 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 3: That was for internal consumption. So then let's move to 160 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: your question about carg Island and about the inbound marine 161 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 3: expeditionary unit on board the USS Triplele and how poetic, 162 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: right from the halls of Montezumo to the shores of 163 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: Triple E. So the important thing about an me EU 164 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: marine expeditionary unit is that they're like a self contained army. 165 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 4: They you know, of. 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: Course the Marines wouldn't like to hear that, but I 167 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: don't mean army with a capital a lower CASEA. So 168 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 3: this self contained unit has fighter jets in the form 169 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: of F thirty fives, it has helicopters in the form 170 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: of H one z vipers. It's got heavy lift. You know, 171 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: for example, your Osprey's and your C stallions. So it 172 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 3: is a a force that is able to project multiple threats. 173 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: Now go way back with me, if you will, to 174 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: the First Golf War. I was on active duty for it, 175 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: albeit I was supporting the war from the National Training 176 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 3: Center in California, working in you the all sorts of 177 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: intelligence section there. You may recall that we parked a 178 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: large marine amphibious force off the coast of Kuwait as 179 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 3: a feint, and we told Saddam was saying, hey, Saddam, look, you. 180 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 4: Know we have all these marines. You're ready to invade 181 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 4: you from the sea. 182 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: And what that did was it tied down a lot 183 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: of Rock's best units in Kuwait to try to face 184 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 3: this phantom invasion, while, of course the real threat went 185 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: way to the west and did this big left hook 186 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 3: that completely caught the Iraqi forces you unprepared. So the 187 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: MEU coming inbound on the Tripoli has all kinds of 188 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 3: opportunities that it gives your military planners. Could they take 189 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: carg Island, Yes they could. Could they work to destroy 190 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 3: any sort of anti ship remaining anti ship capability in 191 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: the Strait of Hormuz, Yes they could. Could their viper 192 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 3: helicopters be used to shoot down drones when they if 193 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: they begin to do convoy operations, Yes they could. So 194 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: the bottom line is is that this task force, this 195 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: powerful force of marines, simply multiplies significantly the amount of 196 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: options available to the Sentcom commander, of which carg Island 197 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 3: is only one of the many things that this MEU 198 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 3: can do. 199 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: But you bring up something that I was discussing with 200 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: Ed Marcy over at hot air dot com. You're both 201 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: Texas guys. You guys should be talking every day, which 202 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: is the idea of this this pentagon specifically and the 203 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: head fake being able to show one thing and then 204 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: doing another thing. 205 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: They have been remarkably good at this. 206 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Chuck talking to Chuck de Voor of the Texas Public 207 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: Policy Foundation and the you know, the sending up remember 208 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: the original bombing raids on the nuclear facilities at Isfahan 209 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: Foordeaux and Anton's sending B twos this way while you 210 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: were hitting B twos sending B twos that way. Is 211 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: has the deception been as successful here with Iran as 212 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: we have seen it in the past. 213 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: I certainly think so. 214 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: I mean, what's interesting to me about democracies and deception 215 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 3: plans and specifically the US is that our enemies, traditionally 216 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: Nazi Germany, for example, with the deception effort that they 217 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: put in quite successfully to the Battle of the Bulge Right, 218 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: or the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Unions case, deception 219 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: was a major part of their doctrine, And with us, 220 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 3: it's something that we talk about and we train about, 221 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 3: and I think frequently we think that we're not all 222 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 3: that good at it because we kind of view it 223 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 3: more as an afterthought, largely because we have such huge 224 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: advantages and logistics and technology and training and morale. But 225 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 3: in fact we're actually not bad at it. You saw, 226 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: for example, an enormously successful deception plan that went into 227 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: D Day with the signaling of a major of amphibious 228 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 3: assault directly across the channel into Calais, and we worked 229 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: with the French resistance, who frankly didn't quite know what 230 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 3: we were doing. We had patent leading a ghost army, 231 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 3: the first US army that was completely fake, with inflatable tanks, 232 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 3: and we were showing Adolf Feldler in his general Is 233 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 3: exactly what they wanted to see. And then we ended 234 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 3: up invading somewhere else in Normandy. So we're actually historically 235 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: not bad at it. We kind of think that we're 236 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: bad at it, and I don't know historically have perhaps 237 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 3: not put as much emphasis on it. But part of 238 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 3: the challenge, of course is leaks. You know, when you're 239 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: in an open society and you have a democracy like 240 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 3: we do, it's hard to keep a secret. On the 241 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 3: other hand, sometimes you can use that to your advantage 242 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: by almost acting as of oops, you know, we just 243 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: have revealed some information that we didn't intend to, when 244 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: in fact you did intend to reveal this false information. 245 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: So yes, they have been doing exceptionally well. And you know, Tony, 246 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: I think there's another huge thing that is often overlooked. 247 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: Here take a few steps back and look at this. 248 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: Look at where America was Visa vi China and Russia 249 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 3: on the eve of the inauguration of Donald Trump. And 250 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: look at today, where you have Venezuela no longer a 251 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: Chinese outpost. You have Cuba ready to fall to the 252 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: forces of freedom for the first time in sixty plus years. 253 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 3: You have Mexico and their one party dictatorship becoming increasingly isolated, 254 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: and the human trafficking and drug cartels being increasingly pressured. 255 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: And now you have Iran, which is bedoubled American foreign 256 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: policy and the general neighborhood of the Middle East since 257 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine, and a major part of China and 258 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: Russia's war plans that they would be available as a 259 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: irritant or a distraction for the US if anything were 260 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: to happen. If you were Jijingping today, you would have 261 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: to look at the current state of the world and 262 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: determine that America under Donald Trump is so powerful and 263 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: so strong militarily that you don't dare even dream about 264 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: trying to take Taiwan by force. That is the effectiveness 265 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: of what's been going on under Donald Trump and the 266 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: massive increase to our credibility and to our deterrence, which 267 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, significantly increases the likelihood 268 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 3: of peace. 269 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: I've got more with Chuck Devor coming up. Keep it here. 270 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: This is Tony Katz today. Maybe it's better late than never, 271 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: but I'm telling you it's too late. Republicans should have 272 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: been on this two weeks ago. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, 273 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: What am I talking about? How you message on Democrats 274 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: not funding the Department of Homeland Security and putting Americans 275 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: in harm's way and. 276 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 5: Now, when our borders are finally secure, and when criminal 277 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 5: illegal aliens are finally being held to account for breaking 278 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 5: our laws. Now the Democrats want a reverse course. They 279 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 5: want to go back to open borders. They want to 280 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 5: defund the agencies that are responsible for keeping law and order. 281 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: And now Leader Jefferies. 282 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 5: Has claimed the latest proposal to defund CBP will just 283 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 5: allow talks to continue. But you all know because you're 284 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 5: tracking it every day. 285 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: That's nonsense. 286 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: Bipartisan talks were already underway before funding lapsed. It was 287 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 5: Democrats who walked away from the table. They did it 288 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 5: precisely so that they could take the Department of Homeland 289 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 5: Security as their next political hostage. They've made a political calculation. 290 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 5: They're polling says they're not fighting Trump enough, and so 291 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 5: they've determined that Homeland Security was the place to throw 292 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 5: down the gauntlet. 293 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: It's so crazy, it really is. 294 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: You should have been discussing this two weeks ago. America 295 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: has been made unsafe because Democrats hate Trump more than 296 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: they love your kids being safe. That's the argument, right, 297 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: It's a take up on Gold in my ear Well, 298 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: Peace with the Palestinians. When they love their children more 299 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: than they hate us, That's what she said, the former 300 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Israel. 301 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: She was right. You should have been on this week's ago. 302 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: Now you've got Democrats saying, well, well, fund the TSA. 303 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: Why won't you just fund the TSA. 304 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: We're ready to fund the TSA, but they won't fund DICE, 305 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: they won't fund the other things. And so you should 306 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: have been pitting this on them weeks ago, hang this 307 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: around their neck and forcing them to play defense on 308 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: their clear hate for Trump over all things. It's not 309 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: that I mind this talk, is that this talk needs 310 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: to be far more aggressive than it is. 311 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 5: And since they shut down DHS now over a month ago, 312 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 5: we've heard nothing but political posturing from Democrat leaders. They're 313 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 5: not serious about this. The answer is simple. They don't 314 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 5: want to fund homeland security. They don't want to do it. 315 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 5: They're perfectly content jeopardizing the security of our homeland and 316 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 5: hurting the American people if it means protecting criminal, illegal aliens. 317 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 5: And there is no other way to explain this. Democrats 318 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 5: have made that conscious decision repeatedly. 319 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: You know them by their actions. 320 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 5: They're doing it again, and the fall they shut down 321 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 5: the government to try to give taxpayer funded benefits to 322 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 5: illegal aliens, and now they've shut down the government once 323 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 5: again to reopen our borders and shield criminal aliens from 324 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 5: our own laws. The American people are not on board 325 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 5: with this. They're not going to have broken policies. They're 326 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,239 Speaker 5: not going to have us return to that. 327 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: No, the correct answer is Democrats are trying to get 328 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: American kids killed. No Coastguard, safety, in security. We've got 329 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: four hour lines at airports. They don't even want the 330 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: kids to see Grahama for spring break. What's wrong with 331 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: these people? Why can't they just be normal and put 332 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: americans interests ahead. 333 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: Of their own power for just a day? 334 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: Is it too much to ask that Americans get on 335 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: spring break without being inconvenience because Democrats need more power. 336 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: It's shameful, disgusting and wrong. I'm discussing messaging. 337 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: This is the start, this should have been weeks ago, 338 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is gonna be enough. 339 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: No, I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Kats today. 340 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: Find everything at tonycats dot com. 341 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 2: So we have data that shows real successes on the 342 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: ground in Iran. And I have been very. 343 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: Clear that I am supportive of taking out the Iranian 344 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: regime and ending the terrorism. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, 345 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: good to be here to be with you talking to 346 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: Chuck to Vour of the Texas Public Policy of Foundation. 347 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: We see and I agree. 348 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: With you as you are discussing it, incredible successes from 349 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: the United States and the Israelis and taking out the 350 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: Iranian regime. And while the administration won't refer to it 351 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: as regime change, the Net and Yahoo administration won't refer 352 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: to it as regime change. 353 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: I only discuss it as regime change. 354 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: I don't believe we should ever be in a conversation 355 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: that isn't we should be in conversations about what. 356 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: Is The administration. The Trump administration will say that. 357 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: This is to give the Iranian people the opportunity to 358 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: engage regime change. I think it's okay to refer to 359 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: it as regime change. I think people find that off putting. 360 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: I think it is more clarifying with than anything else, 361 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: and people can agree or disagree with me as they choose. 362 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 2: But let us get into. 363 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: The latest news today, which is the taking out by 364 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: Israeli forces of one of the leaders in Iran. They 365 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: took out Ali Larijani, the Iranian security chief who just 366 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: was it a week ago, was out there on social media, 367 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: on the Twitter saying we defy the US and you 368 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: can't bother us and we're never going to capitulate. 369 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: And now now he's gone. 370 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: But we have a lot of people I will personally 371 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: call out Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, all call out 372 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: Congressman Rocanna. I'm sorry, Rocanna of California, where you served 373 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: in the California General Assembly. 374 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: There are people on the woke right who. 375 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: All want to make this claim that it's twofold, we're 376 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: losing and we have no business of being there. Israel 377 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: dragged us into this war. I want to break down this. 378 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: You know, some people will call it a syap. I 379 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: would rather say when you don't, when you when you 380 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: hate Trump and when you have an ideological belief, it's 381 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: sometimes hard to see the rest of the field clearly. 382 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: Let's start with Senator Chris Murphy, Let's start with Representative Rocanna. 383 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: Let's start with people like Chris van Holland out of Maryland. 384 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: This concept that we are losing this war. This was 385 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: absolutely unnecessary, what an awful mistake. We had no plan 386 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: going in talk to me about battle plans, and talk 387 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: to me about where their conversations come from and what 388 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: the value of them are. 389 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 390 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 3: So, first of all, regarding battle plans, I mean, the 391 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 3: US does nothing but plan constantly, whether in peacetime or wartime. 392 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 3: I've been privileged to be part of that planning on 393 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 3: a tactical and a strategic level. When I was a 394 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: twenty four to twenty five year old Reagan appointing in 395 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 3: the Pentagon, I spent a week in the basement helping 396 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 3: to plan an aspect of what eventually became Operation Praying 397 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 3: Mantis in nineteen eighty eight, which was at the time 398 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 3: the US Navy's largest surface action since World War Two, 399 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 3: likely eclipsed by recent action, although of course a lot 400 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: of the current sinkings have been by missiles and you know, 401 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 3: stand off weapons. So so, first of all, the US 402 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: military has planned for all these contingencies endlessly, branch plans, 403 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 3: you know, sequels. They were prepared, they knew what they 404 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: were doing. That's number one. Number two, I suppose you 405 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 3: could say that the main critics, mostly on the left 406 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 3: but some on the right, that are saying that we're 407 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 3: losing are simply reacting to the fact that there has 408 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 3: not yet been a formal regime change in Iran. Now 409 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 3: I would argue that there has been regime change. Simply 410 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: ask yourself who is the leader of Iran today and 411 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 3: who is the leader of Iran twenty one days ago? 412 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 4: Oh, it's different. 413 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 3: And then with regards Ali Laryn Johnny, you know, many 414 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: people were thinking that he was in fact the de 415 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: facto leader because of course we have not seen the 416 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 3: new Supreme Leader at all since that very first night 417 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: of strikes, so you know, he may be or to combat, 418 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 3: so he may be out of the picture anyway. So 419 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: has there been functional regime change? Yes, there has been 420 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: functional regime change. Are the people of Iran in charge 421 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 3: of their own destiny yet? 422 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 4: No? Not yet? Are they closer to that day? I 423 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 4: believe they are. 424 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 3: And so then when you look at, for example, the 425 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 3: progress of this campaign and you look at the how 426 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 3: many aircraft, how many aircrew have been lost to enemy fire? 427 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 6: None? 428 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 3: Right, we have the three fifteen's near the very beginning 429 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 3: of the conflict shot down by friendly fire by Kuwait. 430 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 3: Very natural, dangerous thing to happen. You know, you have 431 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 3: a language barrier, you have training and doctrine, barriers, communications. 432 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: Obviously those things get worked out. Then you have the 433 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,719 Speaker 3: tragic loss of the KC one thirty five crew that 434 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: were over friendly territory. 435 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 4: Again, very dangerous operations. 436 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 3: I've been up in a CAC ten tanker at night 437 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 3: refueling a tens and AC attack aircraft. It was a 438 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: fascinating thing. I got to be back in the tailboom 439 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: and watch the different aircraft come up. They come out 440 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 3: of nowhere at night, right, especially on a moonless night, 441 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: you see nothing that all of a sudden, you see 442 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 3: this aircraft that's like two hundred feet away, you know, 443 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: taking in you know, ten pounds of fuel or something. 444 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: It's just amazing to watch. So, you know, that's a 445 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 3: difficult thing to do. That we trained for all the time. 446 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 3: So if you look at the losses we've suffered, and 447 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 3: if you look at the decline and the rate of 448 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: incoming missiles and drones, you have to conclude that it's 449 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 3: been nothing but a spectacular success. Is the regime writ 450 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 3: large still in charge nominally? Are they barely hanging on? Probably? 451 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 3: Are things going to look a lot different in two months? 452 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? 453 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 4: I think they will. 454 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: The woke right, which is now Tucker Carlson and cand 455 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: of so Owens, and Megan Kelly and and and others. 456 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: This should never have happened. We should not be in 457 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: this position. And they'll do two things. They'll talk about 458 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: forever wars, this this buzzword, and then they'll say, well, 459 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Israelis dragged us into this. Now if 460 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: you follow my social media feed, the new allegation is 461 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: I am paid by Masad, but not as much as 462 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: other people because I'm not as popular. So I'm getting 463 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: massade money, but I'm not getting the real massade money, which, 464 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: by the way, infuriates me to no end, because if 465 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: someone's going to pretend I'm getting paid, I would like 466 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: for them to pretend I'm getting paid all. 467 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 2: The dollars and not some sliver the exchange in their 468 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 2: make belief fantasy. I would like to think of myself 469 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: as a big shot. 470 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: But this is this is the argument, right, I disagree 471 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: with what's happening, so therefore you're paid. 472 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 3: You know. 473 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: It's it's this argument of whether or not Tucker Carlson's 474 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: getting paid by Cutter or Qatar, however you want to 475 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: pronounce it. My answer is I have absolutely no idea 476 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: until you show me some data otherwise leave me be. 477 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: I can't throw that into my thoughts. But this response 478 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: of Israel dragged us into this. How do people who 479 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: have a military background, military leaders, people like yourself, and 480 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: certainly it's never going to be one hundred percent, how 481 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: does this get viewed and what is the purpose of 482 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: this argument? Do you think that there's any any kernel 483 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: of truth or historical connection to it? 484 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 4: Right? 485 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 3: So, I mean, of course, if you go back some 486 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 3: you know, one hundred years, ninety years, you had Smedley 487 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: Butler this I think he was a Marine Corps veteran 488 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 3: of World War One who claimed that it was all 489 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 3: you know, the industrialists that were promoting war and was 490 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 3: a big part of the isolationist movement of the twenties 491 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 3: and thirties. So there's always been this strain in American thought, 492 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 3: and there. 493 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 4: Always will be. 494 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: But let's go back and look at some of the 495 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 3: things that you laid out. First of all, this concept 496 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 3: that Israel somehow dragged us into this. There has recently 497 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: been uncovered video of Donald Trump going clear back to 498 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 3: the eighties. In just a few years after the Islamic 499 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 3: Revolution took over in nineteen seventy nine saying that we're 500 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: going to have to deal with Iran, that Iron is 501 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: our enemy, We're going to have to You know, if 502 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 3: I was president, I would have done it differently. 503 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 4: I would have taken them out. 504 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 3: Okay, So you have that from Donald Trump when he 505 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 3: was merely a moderately high profile real estate developer in 506 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 3: the eighties, and he's consistently said that every decade since, 507 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 3: years before he ever became president. So any thought that 508 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: someone with the personality the force of personality that Donald J. 509 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 3: Trump has somehow being led around by the nose by 510 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: the Israelis is just ridiculous on its face. 511 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: So let's set that aside. 512 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: Now let's talk about ale other aspects of this, the 513 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 3: Forever Wars. You know, there is some concern, there is 514 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 3: some legitimate credibility about that. I mean, I was a 515 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 3: critic consistently of the way we were going about fighting 516 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 3: in Afghanistan in Iraq. I'm a fan of the punitive expedition. 517 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: If you are wronged or harmed by somebody, you go in, 518 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 3: you kill them, you leave their heads on pikes as 519 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 3: warnings to others, and then you leave. And the fact 520 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 3: that you may have messed things up in that country. 521 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: Does not incur upon you a moral obligation to go 522 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 3: back and make it somehow as nice as the fifty 523 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 3: first US state. No, you leave the wreckage as a 524 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 3: warning to others. There's a big difference between a punitive 525 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: expedition and nation building, which is what we got involved 526 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: in through what I believe to be terrible hubris, terrible 527 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: arrogance on our part, that we could go in and 528 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 3: somehow transplant this pluralistic, a rule of law republic concepts 529 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: into this tribal, ancient land of hatreds known as Afghanistan. 530 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: What a fool's erin, you know, trillions of dollars, thousands 531 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: of lives lost, and tens of thousands of people injured. 532 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 4: Later and then we leave with our. 533 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: Tail between our legs, and we see the government fall instantaneously, 534 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 3: and in Bolden Putin to then invade Ukraine the very 535 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 3: next year. 536 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 4: Now, I warned that. 537 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: This would be the case clearback Tony in two thousand 538 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: and nine, when I was running for the US Senate 539 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 3: in California, and the San Francisco Chronicle asked me and 540 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 3: Carly Fiorina to comment on Obama's speech and I warned 541 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: that what we were doing in Afghanistan would what not work, 542 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: and that the government would fall soon. 543 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 4: After we left. 544 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 3: And I was accused by Carl Fiorina's people being soft 545 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: on terror. And what did I say that we needed 546 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 3: to do with the money we saved to recapitalize our 547 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: military to deter the resurgence of China and a revanchist 548 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 3: Islamic Republic of Iran. And so I certainly think that 549 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: I was right on the money there. Now there is 550 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 3: one last aspect of it, and that is anti Semitism. 551 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 3: Anti Semitism has of course been with us for at 552 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: least a couple thousand years, if not longer. And you know, 553 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: what you find is that some people, of course are 554 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 3: genuinely just burning with their hatred for the Jewish people. 555 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 3: But there's a whole other class of people for whom 556 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 3: conspiracy theories are a good way of kind of explaining away. 557 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 3: You know, there's circumstances in life. You know that you 558 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 3: didn't get the promotion, you still rent, you don't own 559 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 3: a home, you know your wife left you. You know 560 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 3: things are bad. It must be the Jews fault, right, 561 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 3: something other than the fact that you lack ambition or 562 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 3: intelligence or whatever to take care of yourself. And so 563 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 3: you often see conspiracy theories. Is this refuge for those 564 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: who aren't doing so well, And so I think that 565 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: you have a combination of all of these factors. There's 566 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 3: no one factor that I think is predominant. But you 567 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 3: know what's going to be interesting at the end of 568 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 3: the day, Tony, when this ends up being a historic 569 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 3: victory on the scale of the fall of the Berlin 570 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 3: Wall in nineteen eighty nine and the subsequent collapse of 571 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union in nineteen ninety one, I think that 572 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: people are going to look back and maybe try to 573 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 3: cover up some of their social media history, maybe make 574 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 3: a few discreete deletions, and do some revision. You know, 575 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 3: I was behind Trump all along. 576 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: That involves people having shame in today's world that just 577 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Chuck devor Texas Public Policy Foundation, I appreciate 578 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: you taking the time to be with us. More is 579 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: coming up on Tony Katz and this is Tony Katz today, 580 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: and of course being Saint Patrick's Day. 581 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: How could one possibly. 582 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: Celebrate a fantastic day, a day that brings people together 583 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: and they share a drink and they have a good time. 584 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: How can you celebrate Saint Patrick's Day and remember the 585 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: patriot saint without, of course, a mention of genocide. 586 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 6: I say this is over the past few years, as 587 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 6: we've witnessed a genocide unfold before our eyes, there has 588 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 6: been deafening silence from so many for those who have 589 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 6: long cared about universal human rights and the extension of 590 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 6: them to Palestinians. Silence, however, is nothing new, for Palestinians 591 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 6: are so often left to weep alone. Yet former President 592 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 6: Robinson has never been silent, not when she was president, 593 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 6: not when she was High Commissioner for Human Rights, and 594 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 6: not in the decades since. As she once said, commemoration 595 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 6: is a moral act. 596 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: Something tells me, if you're ever pronounced a High Commissioner 597 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: of anything, chances are you're a bad person. The High 598 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: Commissioner for whatever it is, I assume always is a 599 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: bond villain. But this is this is a Saint Patrick's 600 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: Day celebrations, and he of course needs to lie. I 601 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: not somebody who is going to be told I have 602 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: to have sympathy for hamas sympathy for a terrorist organization 603 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: is super weird and the idea that the Israelis can't 604 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: fight back against. 605 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 2: It is super weird, and you can. 606 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: Argue, well, then the Palestinians can fight back against it, 607 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: Go right ahead. 608 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: I think they lost. 609 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: I hadn't made this argument early on after October seventh, 610 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: where I support Israel destroying, destroying hamas and destroying any 611 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 1: part of the regime that allows their funding. But I said, 612 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: if it's somehow wrong to take the side of Israel, 613 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: how about. 614 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: Nobody takes a side. Let them fight it out. Why 615 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: are we even thinking about it. Let's stop thinking about it, 616 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 2: let's stop discussing it. Let them fight it out. There's 617 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 2: gonna be a winner, there's gonna be a loser. And 618 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 2: that's just the way it is. It's the law of the. 619 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,959 Speaker 1: Jungle, baby, it's just nature. One's gonna win and one's 620 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: gonna lose. We all stay out of it. No one 621 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: gets funded another dime. Israel doesn't get any more foreign aid, 622 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: and the power Citians don't get any more money from UNRA, 623 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: the United Nations Reliefs Work Agency, where people were getting outrageous. 624 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: Amounts of money. No, no, no, let them fight it out. 625 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: Who's gonna win. 626 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: And that's where you learned very quickly that this wasn't 627 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: about staying out of it. This was about going after 628 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: Israel for their existence and somehow claiming that the Palestinians 629 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: have some kind of morality on their side. I don't 630 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: buy into that, knowing that hostages were held and they 631 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: got no help. 632 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 2: No one cared that they were hostages. 633 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: There was cheering of their capture and cheering of their subjugation. 634 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: There has never been a genocide from Israel towards name 635 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 1: the group. 636 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 2: Just didn't happen. 637 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: It's a debunked lie again and again and again. But 638 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: liars like Zaron Mamdani means bad guys, Unamerican guys. They'll 639 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: keep pushing it and we got to just keep It's gross, 640 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: but it's true. 641 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 2: Find everything at Tony Katz dot com tomorrow. Everyone take 642 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 2: care