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Speaker 1: Live from the heart Bland and the crossroads of America.

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Speaker 1: It's Tony Katz Today.

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Speaker 2: It's a conversation about strategy.

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Speaker 3: How does one take the information given.

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Speaker 2: And how then do you go about utilizing it to

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Speaker 2: your advantage?

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Speaker 3: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today. Good to be here, Good

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Speaker 3: to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Find everything I do over at tonykats dot com. And

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Speaker 2: this is a story of what took place this week.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about some of the we've talked about some

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Speaker 2: of the data.

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Speaker 3: But we have not asked ourselves. Does this election that.

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Speaker 2: We have just seen over there in Virginia, in New Jersey,

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Speaker 2: in New York?

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Speaker 3: Does this apply to the rest of the country. Is

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Speaker 3: there a lesson that needs to be learned?

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Speaker 2: Is this really all about affordability twenty four seven, three

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Speaker 2: sixty five? Is that what it's all about? Is there

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Speaker 2: something else we should be taking from this? Is there

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Speaker 2: some other lesson that we should be learning? Is there

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Speaker 2: such a thing as an overreaction? These are the questions,

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Speaker 2: and they're not bad questions. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: of the smart questions I had mentioned yesterday that I

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Speaker 2: never in my life, ever one ever, ever ever heard

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Speaker 2: anything as quick from the from the Republican Party as

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Speaker 2: the post mortem of this election and saying, you know what, affordability,

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Speaker 2: That's what it's all about.

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Speaker 3: Shawn Spicer joins me right now.

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Speaker 2: You know him from the Shawn Spicer Show on the

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Speaker 2: First a former Press secretary to President Trump. His book

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Speaker 2: The Briefing, Politics, the Press, and the President available at

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Speaker 2: Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold in Shawn,

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking the time to be here, the

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Speaker 2: time to be with us. The election that we just

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Speaker 2: saw the Democrats winning all the places they won. Is

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Speaker 2: there a great lesson to learn from this that Republicans

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Speaker 2: need to take. You see, at least the phonic running

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Speaker 2: for governor New York and saying, first things first, affordability

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Speaker 2: is the key? Or are these silent events and we

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Speaker 2: should treat them as such?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, every election you learned something. And that's the thing.

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Speaker 4: And it's like every game if you're a soccer player

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Speaker 4: or whatever. I mean. I even think, like you know,

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Speaker 4: as a professional, I look at shows that I do

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Speaker 4: and I'll say, Okay, what went well there, what didn't

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Speaker 4: go well? How can I improve? I think that's frankly

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Speaker 4: just how personally and professionally. People should live their lives

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Speaker 4: trying to figure out how can I be better personally professionally.

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Speaker 4: So you should always look at an election and say,

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Speaker 4: what do we do well and what didn't we do well.

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Speaker 4: I think there's two things that I stand out for

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Speaker 4: me on this election, Tony. One is the messaging. Two

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Speaker 4: is the mechanics and the messaging front. Look, I think

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Speaker 4: the economy and safety crime are always going to be

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Speaker 4: the number one and number two issues for people. If

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Speaker 4: you don't feel like you're doing well, that you can

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Speaker 4: spend money, put money away, take care of your kids,

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Speaker 4: then the economy isn't good for you, no matter what

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Speaker 4: statistic somebody tells you. Two is on the safety front,

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Speaker 4: the same thing. If you can't walk down your street

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Speaker 4: and feel safe, then it's not good. And Republicans, you know,

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Speaker 4: as you look at what that you and I talked

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Speaker 4: about this on my show, like they're sitting around talking

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Speaker 4: about social issues. I'm not minimizing those social issues, but

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Speaker 4: do you really care about you know, what's going on culturally?

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Speaker 4: If first and foremost you can't afford what's going on

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Speaker 4: in the world to pay for food or rent, and

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Speaker 4: that's where Republicans missed the vote. And then on the mechanics,

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Speaker 4: there's two things. Number One, to get out the vote

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Speaker 4: effort sucked. I can't discuss that enough sucked. And when

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Speaker 4: you look at Virginia winsom Seers underperformed southwest Virginia and

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Speaker 4: even in northern Virginia, like a county like Loudon County,

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Speaker 4: which is not far from DC, she underperformed by twenty points.

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Speaker 4: Twenty points. You can't win like that. And secondly, look

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Speaker 4: the world that we live in today. I was talking

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Speaker 4: to Robert Kahley just going to pull in in Virginia

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Speaker 4: and he and I were having a conversation and I said,

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Speaker 4: he said, Sean, if you can pass this on to

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Speaker 4: the candidates, I appreciate it. And again he didn't make

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Speaker 4: any money off these guys and he's not bowling for them.

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Speaker 4: He said, the problem with the J. Jones scandal is this.

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Speaker 4: If you are getting your information from legacy media, then

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Speaker 4: you hear about it, you see about it. But younger

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Speaker 4: voters aren't getting their messaging and their information from legacy media.

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Speaker 4: You need to tell them to go heavier on digital

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Speaker 4: and to really reach out to influencers that can help.

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Speaker 4: But fundamentally, here's the problem, Tony. Consultants don't make money

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Speaker 4: like that, and so they ignored it. And I talked

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Speaker 4: to person after person who said I'd reached out to

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Speaker 4: the campaign. I never heard back. These guys. Their messaging

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Speaker 4: and their mechanics sucked. And I'm sorry, it's just it's

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Speaker 4: a it's a root awakening. But you know what, I

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Speaker 4: think Republicans betting into midterms need to hear this. Your

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Speaker 4: messaging needs to get better, and the mechanic about how

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Speaker 4: you get people to hear about that and to get

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Speaker 4: your vote out needs to do a lot more. As

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Speaker 4: you head in. I'm just everyone wants to put their

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Speaker 4: head in the sand and go, oh, well, it wasn't this,

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Speaker 4: It wasn't that. I just gave you the solution. The

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Speaker 4: question is whether or not, if you're a candidate, you

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Speaker 4: want to listen and take that advice.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's a whole conversation of the medium is

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Speaker 2: the message. Talking to Sean Spicer, host of The Shawn

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Speaker 2: Spicer Show on the first at sewn Spicer sbi cer

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Speaker 2: on the Twitter X. But the underperforming is the underperforming

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Speaker 2: because you just don't reach a younger audience or is

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Speaker 2: the underperforming because the overall message didn't actually connect with

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Speaker 2: where Virginians, New Jersey's New Yorkers were.

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Speaker 4: No, that's actually a fantastic question. It's both. They go

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Speaker 4: hand in hand. You can't turn people out if they

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Speaker 4: don't have a reason to vote. So if they're like, hey, great,

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Speaker 4: you got you contacted me, But why do I care?

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Speaker 4: What is this election? Why is my life going to

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Speaker 4: be better worse because of you? So if you don't

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Speaker 4: give them a message or reason, then they're not going

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Speaker 4: to get out and vote. That's just a fact. And

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Speaker 4: so the problem is they lacked a the message and

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Speaker 4: then be the ability to motivate these people to get

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Speaker 4: out and vote. And when you don't have either, you're

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Speaker 4: in big trouble. I mean, they go hand in hand,

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Speaker 4: just to be clear, but you know, they didn't have

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Speaker 4: a message and they didn't have a way of driving

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Speaker 4: people out. And so for those reasons, I feel like

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Speaker 4: it's on shark tank, you know, for that reason, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Out the message of affordability.

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Speaker 2: Right Democrats think, Aha, we've got the right message, but

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Speaker 2: their message would be a weird one compared to what

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Speaker 2: that happened in the four years of Joe Biden. I

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Speaker 2: mentioned Elie Stephanic, the congresswoman who basically got hosed out

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Speaker 2: of being the ambassador.

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Speaker 3: To the UN.

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Speaker 2: She's running now against Kathy Hokeel for that governor's mansion

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Speaker 2: in New York.

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Speaker 3: And her first message, message number one is sordability in

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Speaker 3: New York. Was that message?

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Speaker 2: Is that message a broad scale message for the Republicans

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Speaker 2: going into midterms?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, yes, yes, but but again, part of this

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Speaker 4: is it's not as simple as like, hey, tell me

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Speaker 4: what the message is and then I'll just repeat it.

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Speaker 4: There has to be a localization of that, right. So

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Speaker 4: in the case of New Jersey, for example, Uh, their

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Speaker 4: energy bills are going way up. So you can't just

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Speaker 4: say the word affordability, affordability, affordability. Oh, I got it.

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Speaker 4: You've got to You've got to make it actually resonate

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Speaker 4: in a way that makes sense. So in New Jersey,

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Speaker 4: energy costs makes sense. So you know, focus on that.

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Speaker 4: But you can't just it's not It's it's like again,

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Speaker 4: too many times people want the simple, right, So what

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Speaker 4: what is it that makes it unique to New York

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Speaker 4: or New Jersey or whatever. So for people in downstate

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Speaker 4: New York. You know, I think about Kathy. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, the state put knows, uh, you know, New

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Speaker 4: York City Graphic whatever. They're called congested pricing, and they're

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Speaker 4: you know, so maybe it's the Maybe it's what your

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Speaker 4: commute is costing you in New York City. That might

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Speaker 4: be different in Buffalo or Albany. But and the reason

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Speaker 4: I say this is sometimes people are like, okay, so

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Speaker 4: give me the answer. What's the answer, right. It's like

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Speaker 4: when people say to me, Sean, I want to be

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Speaker 4: more like Trump, and my answer to them is, don't

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Speaker 4: be like Trump. Be yourself. What Donald Trump does, he's

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Speaker 4: himself equal sense the authenticity of Donald Trump. And when

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Speaker 4: people say I want to do what Trump did, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 4: donald Trump is Donald Trump. You are you be you

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Speaker 4: be authentically. You don't try to pretend that you're Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: Because only he can get away with half the crack

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Speaker 4: that he does, because he's got the background, the experience,

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Speaker 4: the personality to pull it off. I mean I joked

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Speaker 4: with the President all the time. He'd said you know

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Speaker 4: what you should do, Sean, and say, sir, you can

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Speaker 4: pull that off. I can't talk. Let me look back

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Speaker 4: and go. You know you're right.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Sean Spicer, host of you Know, The Shawn

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Speaker 2: Spicer Show on the first and the book The Briefing, Politics,

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Speaker 2: the Press, and the President that's available at Amazon dot com.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to a part two as we look into

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Speaker 2: the midterms and try and engage some philosophy and some

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Speaker 2: crystal balling here.

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Speaker 3: And that's the concept of Trump hate.

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Speaker 2: We know that the last ten years have been Trump

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Speaker 2: as a threat to democracy. Trump's a danger, Trump's authoritarian,

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Speaker 2: Trump's a fascist. As I see it, the MSNBC's of

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Speaker 2: the world are flat out guilty of trying to secure

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Speaker 2: lone wolves to do damage, just like we saw it

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Speaker 2: in Butler what they tried to do at mar Lago.

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Speaker 2: This idea we see in the polling that the political

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Speaker 2: left has said that political violence makes sense if somebody

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Speaker 2: says something you disagree with, this horrifying reality that we

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Speaker 2: are all in. But we've also made the argument that

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Speaker 2: hate broughts the brain and hate is not a winning

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Speaker 2: message and of itself, because people want something to aspire to,

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Speaker 2: they want something to reach towards, to.

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Speaker 3: Be a part of.

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Speaker 2: As you see it, can Trump hate truly help democrats

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Speaker 2: carry as they look to the midterms.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think it can be part of it, but

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Speaker 4: you're absolutely right, right, So like, for example, you could

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Speaker 4: say it's not it's a two part proposition. So you've

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Speaker 4: got someone to say you've got it, not like Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: And then oh, by the way, I made better alternative

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Speaker 4: because you know, fill in the blank, I'll keep you safer,

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Speaker 4: I'll make you more prosperous. And that's what I always

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Speaker 4: call this the comma. So you know, I'll give you

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Speaker 4: an example where I think the Trump administration is falling

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Speaker 4: short on affordability. As the President did this big drug

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Speaker 4: roll out yesterday. I thought it was fantastic, but they

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Speaker 4: need to say, and here's why it matters to you.

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Speaker 4: Because you're spending one thousand dollars a month on a

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Speaker 4: GOP one drug. We're going to make it one hundred

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Speaker 4: and forty nine dollars. Oh, I get it. Now, where's

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Speaker 4: the comma? And the problem that Democrats have? They go Trump,

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Speaker 4: we don't like Trump, tromp Trump Trump, and then you go, comma,

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Speaker 4: what and they they're missing the So vote for us

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Speaker 4: because because right now, no one believes that they are

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Speaker 4: a better alternative and that's their problem. They got the

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Speaker 4: first part of the sentence down, but they have no

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Speaker 4: way of filling any because nobody believes that they are

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Speaker 4: a better alternative. And I think at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, the one thing about Trump is that he

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Speaker 4: has shown them that Okay, maybe you you buy into

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Speaker 4: some of the crap the Dems are selling, but he's

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Speaker 4: got the country moving in the right direction. He's fighting

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Speaker 4: for for you know, fairer deals and better better uh

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Speaker 4: you know, foreign direct investment in the country, better jobs.

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Speaker 4: So they're missing the what comes after the comma And

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Speaker 4: and I think that that's where they're going to have

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Speaker 4: a problem, is because they've they're all over the map

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Speaker 4: when it comes to issues like you know you Zoran

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Speaker 4: Mundami and to your point, like they've excused political violence

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Speaker 4: with whether it's Jay Jones or the terror sympathizing Mendami

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Speaker 4: or some of the other instances. But like they are,

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Speaker 4: there's no consistency to what their message is. Therefore, whatever

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Speaker 4: gets them into power. See that's the difference with the Democrats.

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Speaker 4: It's not it's a hodgepodge quilt work of coalitions to

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Speaker 4: get them whatever it takes to win. It's almost like

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Speaker 4: a parliamentary system. If you look at the Democrats, they

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Speaker 4: are just a atchwork of coalitions, not there's no overriding

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Speaker 4: philosophical belief.

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Speaker 3: Before I let you go.

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Speaker 2: Seawan Spicer, host of the Shawn Spicer Show on the

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Speaker 2: First You can find them on Twitter x Sewn Spicer

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Speaker 2: and the book The Briefing Politics, the Press and the President.

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Speaker 3: Get that at Amazon dot com.

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Speaker 2: The Democrats have now decided, after Tuesday's election, we don't

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Speaker 2: care if the country stay shut down. We're winning and

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Speaker 2: there's something to win here. You had Senator Blumenthal, who

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Speaker 2: lied about his Vietnam service, saying that it makes no

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Speaker 2: sense to stop now. You know, Senator Chris Murphy Betameil

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Speaker 2: Connecticut stating quite clearly, we can't turn now and show

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Speaker 2: our base, well we'll we'll lose out on the midterms.

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Speaker 2: Advice for the Republicans on how to counter this argument

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Speaker 2: or for Americans in general.

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Speaker 4: So, Tony, I think that that kind of going back

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Speaker 4: to the way I described the last thing. The Republicans

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Speaker 4: can't just why why are we in this position? So

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Speaker 4: right now they're making a process argument, which is, hey,

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Speaker 4: we're voting to keep it open. They're not they need

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Speaker 4: to get more personal about this is you know, it's

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Speaker 4: not just that they're voting. That's a that's that's a

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Speaker 4: process argument, but they need to start saying why it

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Speaker 4: matters so because we want, you know, what are we?

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Speaker 4: What are what is that great big fight that you're

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Speaker 4: fighting for?

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Speaker 1: Why is it?

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Speaker 4: The American people should be on your side. And I

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Speaker 4: think that they have to explain what they're trying to,

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Speaker 4: what their overall arching goal is. It's not just to

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Speaker 4: open open governments. Who are the stake of opening government?

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Speaker 4: Do you know what I'm saying, Like, we're not fighting

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Speaker 4: for that. What is it that we really care about?

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Speaker 4: We're really fighting for? And I think part of this

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Speaker 4: is to get to the point that we're talking about

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Speaker 4: making sure that government is more effective, have more efficient

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Speaker 4: working for you, as opposed to just existentially opening it

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Speaker 4: up for no reason.

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Speaker 2: Shawn Spicer, I appreciate you taking the time to be

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Speaker 2: with us. Check this show out over at the first

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Speaker 2: and find them on Twitter X Sean Spicer appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: More's coming up. I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Katz

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Speaker 3: Today