WEBVTT - Tony Katz on Media Backlash on Sophie Cunningham

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<v Speaker 1>Live from ball Heartbyer and the Crossroads of America.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Tony Katz today.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not quite sure there's anything left to say about

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<v Speaker 1>the WNBA.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've got the.

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<v Speaker 1>Telegraph talking about Sophie Cunningham as basketball's new anti trans

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<v Speaker 1>maga poster girl. What when did she say she was

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<v Speaker 1>anti trans? Girls should be in girls sports, Girls sports

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<v Speaker 1>are for girls. That's anti trans. No, no, no it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>And who's still fighting this fight? And why?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what we said here from the beginning was

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<v Speaker 1>was that Sophie Cunningham of the Indiana a Fever has

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<v Speaker 1>done absolutely nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>She has said absolutely nothing wrong. She said that.

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<v Speaker 1>Girl sports should be for girls and that children is normal.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the rational course, Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, so

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<v Speaker 1>good to be with you. Find everything I do with

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<v Speaker 1>Tony kats dot com. It was a story from the Guardian.

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<v Speaker 1>Sophie Cunningham isn't rejecting politics, She's cashing in on them.

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<v Speaker 1>This whole article ends in the following manner. Sophie Cunningham

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<v Speaker 1>has been.

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<v Speaker 2>In the league eight years.

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<v Speaker 1>She'll be thirty later this month, five and a half

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<v Speaker 1>years older than Clark, and for the large majority of

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<v Speaker 1>those years, she's been a serviceable, unremarkable player who was

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<v Speaker 1>a top notch three point shooter. She wasn't even who

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<v Speaker 1>the marketers picked to sell sex to the boys. The

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<v Speaker 1>role of the glambed up blonde beauty baller belonged to

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<v Speaker 1>six or four inch Cameron Brink. Cunningham needed the war

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<v Speaker 1>to get on the map, needing it as much as

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<v Speaker 1>it needed her, and all it took was a silly

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<v Speaker 1>fingerpoint and being in opposition as someone black to the

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<v Speaker 1>aggrieved whites standing up to someone black men standing up

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<v Speaker 1>for them. Add transphobia to her portfolio, and the result

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<v Speaker 1>is a star, the latest participant in an old game

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<v Speaker 1>no more complicated than checkers, but far less interesting. The

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<v Speaker 1>author of this piece of the guy the name of

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<v Speaker 1>Howard Bryant. Now that paragraph tells the story of part

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<v Speaker 1>of the WNBA story, which is the media that covers

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<v Speaker 1>the WNBA is desperate for that league to stay black

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<v Speaker 1>and gay. Now I could get in a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of trouble for saying that. I could have people coming

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<v Speaker 1>after me for saying that. I just quoted the author

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<v Speaker 1>who said that's what we do here and put it

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<v Speaker 1>in the context of.

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<v Speaker 2>White people are just so angry.

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<v Speaker 1>No, white people aren't a group, like black people aren't

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<v Speaker 1>a group, like gay people.

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<v Speaker 2>Are in a group.

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<v Speaker 1>They have their own minds and their own thoughts, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>mister Bryan's or anybody else. If they could just stop

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<v Speaker 1>being bigots for five minutes, we could have ourselves a

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<v Speaker 1>better conversation. The issue here is that Caitlin Clark is

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<v Speaker 1>a star. We know the story here. She's simply better

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<v Speaker 1>than the rest. And even if she isn't actually better

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<v Speaker 1>than the rest, she has captured the imagination.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the way it goes.

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<v Speaker 1>You think Taylor Swift is really a super great songwriter

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<v Speaker 1>and a super great voice, No part of that is true.

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<v Speaker 1>She has captured the imagination, and that's why it's stadium

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<v Speaker 1>tour after stadium tour after stadium tour.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what she was able to do. Cook has sold

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<v Speaker 2>out stadiums.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't ask me captured the imagination For just a moment,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you the most unpopular opinion in the history

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<v Speaker 1>of mankind, Andrew Dice Clay was never that funny, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was a really good routine. Captured the imagination, and

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted to be a part of it. The attitude

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<v Speaker 1>was fun. Stadium tours, Comics in stadiums. Man, that's the goal.

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<v Speaker 1>Because every comic wishes they were a rock and roll guy,

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<v Speaker 1>wishes that they were a rock star.

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<v Speaker 2>We know this to be true.

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<v Speaker 1>Rock Stars want to be actors. Actors want to be comics.

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<v Speaker 1>Comics want to be rock stars. As I believe that

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<v Speaker 1>is the circle of life. The WNBA has every opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to be better off because of Caitlin Clark. She captured

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<v Speaker 1>the imagination. She brought people to the sport. She brought

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<v Speaker 1>the players from commercial flights to flights. She brought them

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<v Speaker 1>better hotels, she brought them better contracts, she brought them

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<v Speaker 1>more money.

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<v Speaker 2>She did it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a lot to put on a twenty four to

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five year old, but she did it. That's the end.

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<v Speaker 1>Sophie Cunningham didn't come along to be a star because

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<v Speaker 1>of Caitlyn Clark. She came along to be a star

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<v Speaker 1>because the WNBA had no interest in having a star

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<v Speaker 1>like Caitlyn Clark because she was too white and too straight.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that's a very rude thing to say, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not the one saying it.

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<v Speaker 1>I notice that they say it constantly and consistently, over

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<v Speaker 1>and over and over and over again, overshadowing this one

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<v Speaker 1>and overshadowing that one.

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<v Speaker 2>The only reason.

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<v Speaker 1>People like hers because she's white in this and then

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<v Speaker 1>the media needs a straight white woman as a post.

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<v Speaker 2>She brought the excitement, ride the wave. Call a penalty

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<v Speaker 2>on her when it's her penalty.

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<v Speaker 1>Call a penalty on Sophie Cunningham when it's Sophie Cunningham's penalty.

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<v Speaker 1>But because Sophie Cunningham has decided to be protective of

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<v Speaker 1>Caitlyn Clark, because Sophie Cunningham isn't afraid of a fight,

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<v Speaker 1>because she's able to utilize social media can make a

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<v Speaker 1>moment like the meme of the point right, all the pointing,

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<v Speaker 1>she gets attacked and vilified, and when playing the Minnesota Lynks,

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<v Speaker 1>she gets elbowed in the face and she gets called

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<v Speaker 1>for the penalty. Let me say it again for the

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<v Speaker 1>people in cheap seats. She got elbowed in the face

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<v Speaker 1>and she got called for the penalty. She didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>the ball. The player with the ball elbowed her in

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<v Speaker 1>the face, and Sophie Cunningham got called for the penalty.

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<v Speaker 1>And then she had the audacity, the audacity to say

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<v Speaker 1>that girls sports should be for girls, and that was it,

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<v Speaker 1>That was it, game over. She is a bigot, and

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<v Speaker 1>she is terrible, and she's maga and all the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the nonsense.

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<v Speaker 2>The hate machine went full throttle.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, not only did I believe the Guardian

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<v Speaker 1>referred to her as anti trans, they referred to her

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<v Speaker 1>as anti black. The media that covers the NBA is

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<v Speaker 1>amongst the most bigoted and the most terrible out there.

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<v Speaker 2>They really are awful, positively awful. But what is worse.

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<v Speaker 1>Possibly are the coaches, the coaches who have put them

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<v Speaker 1>in a position of being in favor of men in

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<v Speaker 1>their sport.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, a lot of people have.

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<v Speaker 1>Been discussing what happens when the WNBA allows this, When

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<v Speaker 1>the WNBA allows men in because they identify as this,

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<v Speaker 1>that or the other, that's going to be the end.

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<v Speaker 1>That's going to be the end of the WNBA. By

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<v Speaker 1>the way, did I call it a penalty and not

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<v Speaker 1>a foul, my mistake. I apologize for that. I was

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<v Speaker 1>looking that the US men's soccer team did just sign

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<v Speaker 1>Pochettino to a long term contract through twenty thirty, and

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<v Speaker 1>maybe that's why I was doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>It just came up foul, not penalty. My apologies.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, coach after coach after coach got asked what they

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<v Speaker 1>think about Sophie Cunningham standing up for girls in girl sports,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a normal position.

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<v Speaker 2>She didn't say a single thing that's political.

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<v Speaker 1>The people who say she says something political are the

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<v Speaker 1>people who are broken. They are fools, and they are

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<v Speaker 1>a danger to themselves and others. Why do I say

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<v Speaker 1>such a thing, Because if you can believe that girls

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<v Speaker 1>sports are not for girls, you'll believe anything. If girls

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<v Speaker 1>sports are not for girls, there are no girls sports.

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<v Speaker 2>The end.

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<v Speaker 1>It is such a factual statement, such a clear statement,

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<v Speaker 1>such an understandable statement. It can't be denied. Only the

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<v Speaker 1>irrational can deny it. And those people are irrational, and

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<v Speaker 1>they should be mocked. People who are going through this

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<v Speaker 1>mental illness, I think should be shown respect and love

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<v Speaker 1>people who want to push mental illness on others or

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<v Speaker 1>get you to buy into that somebody else is meant

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<v Speaker 1>to own.

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<v Speaker 2>This means you have to change the way you live.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those people, those people, they need to be pushed aside,

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<v Speaker 1>mocked them, ridicule to s Fine, So we get back

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<v Speaker 1>to the coaches, because one by one they're asked, what

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<v Speaker 1>do you think about what Sophie Cunningham said?

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<v Speaker 2>They can't figure out how to be rational.

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<v Speaker 1>I have got the coach of the Minnesota Links, quite literally,

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<v Speaker 1>wearing a she's got a shirt on, and what does

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<v Speaker 1>the shirt say? The shirt says trans kids belong?

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<v Speaker 2>What does that even mean?

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<v Speaker 1>What possibly could that mean? Trans kids belong belong? What

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<v Speaker 1>girls belong in girls' sports? Boys who say they're girls

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<v Speaker 1>do not your shirt? Trans kids belong is nothing more

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<v Speaker 1>than some kind of irrational sloganeering. It's virtue signaling. Look

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<v Speaker 1>at me, I'm nice, Look at me I care. You

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<v Speaker 1>don't care. You sure as hell don't care about kids.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't care about girls. And that's the story time

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<v Speaker 1>and again into the WNBA and what has come.

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<v Speaker 2>Out of this. It isn't about Caitly Clark. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>It isn't about Sophie Cunningham or Caitlyn Clark.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about the media that covers the WNBA and the

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<v Speaker 1>coaches within the WNBA who.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't care about women. They are bigots and they are

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<v Speaker 2>proud of it.

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<v Speaker 1>And they are desperate to see women be demoralized and

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<v Speaker 1>moved out.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the coach of the Golden State Valkyries.

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<v Speaker 1>Her name is Natalie Nikoss, and she is asked a

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<v Speaker 1>basic question.

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<v Speaker 3>Ever again in the regular season, but coming out of

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<v Speaker 3>the break, one of the big news stories has been

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<v Speaker 3>Sophie Cunningham and the protest for her and protests against her.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, they had a national televised game today

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<v Speaker 3>and Cheryl, you know, wore a shirt and it's just

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<v Speaker 3>a conversation. I'm wondering, just what do you think about it?

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<v Speaker 3>Do you do you think that's good for the league?

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<v Speaker 3>Does it does it detract from the basketball?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it? Is it just noise?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just wondering what your opinion is.

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<v Speaker 4>I think thank you for that question.

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<v Speaker 2>I think just in terms of.

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<v Speaker 4>How I'm seeing it is if I could answer it

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<v Speaker 4>was like for me, sports, sports is about belonging.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about inclusivity.

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<v Speaker 4>It's about allowing everyone to be their authentic self. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm big on that, just because I have been criticized

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<v Speaker 4>for my for my ethnicity. I've been in those you

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<v Speaker 4>shouldn't belong here many times, and for me, I don't

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<v Speaker 4>want that space, especially Golden State, to ever feel like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is a broken league and a broken coach.

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<v Speaker 1>I would tell her directly what an absolutely surreal argument

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<v Speaker 1>sports is about belonging. I didn't say that somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>thought they were a woman couldn't play basketball. Go play basketball.

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<v Speaker 1>You just can't play organize against other women. If you

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<v Speaker 1>want to play in a league that does that, go

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<v Speaker 1>do that. But if you want to tell women they

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<v Speaker 1>have to take a back seat to men, first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what kind of feminism that is.

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<v Speaker 2>Secondly, my gosh, that's bigoted. That's ugly.

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<v Speaker 1>Since your ideology comes before your humanity, you lost all

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<v Speaker 1>sense of rationality.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't even stand up for you. Look at me.

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<v Speaker 1>They came after me because of my ethnicity. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>even know what that's supposed to me. And I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>tall enough, this and that. And now you're saying that

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<v Speaker 1>other girls should have to sit down because well they're girls.

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<v Speaker 1>You're saying to me, Tony, this conversation isn't making sense.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'll say to you, trying to make sense of

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<v Speaker 1>the left's argument is madness. Let me give you the

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<v Speaker 1>baseline of all of their arguments. They were told that

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<v Speaker 1>if they don't accept the fact that men can be women,

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<v Speaker 1>they will be excommunicated, and they simply can't get excommunicated,

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<v Speaker 1>so they have no way of explaining how it is

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<v Speaker 1>they really feel. They just simply do what they are

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<v Speaker 1>told so they get to stay in the fold.

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<v Speaker 2>The WNBA is telling you on every level, we are

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<v Speaker 2>a league for.

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<v Speaker 1>Black women and gay women, and that's it, and that

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<v Speaker 1>if anything should come around questioning that, we will go

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<v Speaker 1>to further and further extremes to prove it, and we

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<v Speaker 1>will give every nonsense answer, literally no sense, to try

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<v Speaker 1>and get out of the conversation. Sports is about belonging. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes the guy who isn't good enough doesn't make the team.

0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>He wants to belong but he doesn't make the team.

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was about winning, so I thought a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of it was about Sophie Cunningham said absolutely nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>But the WNBA's response is outrageously wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe this is what we need, Maybe this is what

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<v Speaker 2>we need. Maybe what we need.

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<v Speaker 1>Is for them to be able to out themselves completely

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<v Speaker 1>so we know what it is we're dealing with.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, what does it mean for the WNBA. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>because it doesn't look to me like the NBA is

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<v Speaker 2>ever going to change the league.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't look like they're going to do anything except

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<v Speaker 1>continue this welfare project. Our job, I think, is to

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<v Speaker 1>ask ourselves what this is talking to or doing to

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<v Speaker 1>us via culture, and how do we make changes from there,

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<v Speaker 1>Because right now they're a little girls saying thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Sophie Cunningham for standing up for us, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>are the coaches saying, how dare you stand up for girls?

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<v Speaker 2>I have a couple of theories of where this can go.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get into those in the days ahead. Keep it here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Tony Katz, and this is Tony Katz today.