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Speaker 1: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of

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Speaker 1: a free state, the right of the people to keep

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Speaker 1: in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy.

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Speaker 2: Boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom

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Speaker 2: boom boom bang.

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Speaker 1: Bang boo, Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

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Speaker 3: Welcome afternoon, and welcome to the Gun Guy Show here

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Speaker 3: on ninety three WIBC. We're throwing here with us, and

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Speaker 3: I got a lot to get into, as I always

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Speaker 3: do you know this first topic I'm going to discuss.

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Speaker 3: I really I'm usually pretty decisive on what I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about on the show and what I don't

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Speaker 3: what I want to write about, whether it's out on

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Speaker 3: the internet or otherwise. I've usually got a pretty clear idea.

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Speaker 3: And I really went back and forth on this, but

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Speaker 3: really decide I did I think for the right reasons

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Speaker 3: that I do want to address some real I think

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Speaker 3: scam artists and grifters that are out there claiming to

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Speaker 3: be Second Amendment advocates, and I just think at every opportunity,

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Speaker 3: those of us who have been involved in the fight

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Speaker 3: for a long time, and those of us who actually,

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Speaker 3: oh say, show up at the state House, who actually

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Speaker 3: take part in drafting legislation and then fighting to get

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Speaker 3: it passed. Those of us who fight to stave off

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Speaker 3: the attacks on our Second Amendment rights with a lot

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Speaker 3: of success here in Indiana. You know, when we see

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Speaker 3: somebody really I think, just trying to profiteer off others' efforts.

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Speaker 3: And there are a lot of people fighting every day

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Speaker 3: for Second Amendment rights, and a lot of people have

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Speaker 3: done some amazing things right here in the state but

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Speaker 3: to protect our Second Amendment rights. And occasionally, though, we

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Speaker 3: see a scam artist come along, really just trying under

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Speaker 3: line their own pockets. And that's exactly what we have

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Speaker 3: in a gun group that I'm starting to get solicitations

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Speaker 3: from on email. I don't know how I ended up

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Speaker 3: on their email list, because I certainly have not sent

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Speaker 3: any money to this organization and I haven't signed up

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Speaker 3: in any way to receive their stuff. But apparently I'm

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Speaker 3: on some list because I get solicitations for money all

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Speaker 3: the time from them, and it's always in relation to

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Speaker 3: you know, oh no, there's this horrible bill that's been filed.

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Speaker 3: I've got a couple here lately and I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: the Indiana Firearms Coalition. There's the group I'm talking about,

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Speaker 3: and this is this is the Door Brothers d r R.

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Speaker 3: And listen, if you're you know, not in your car,

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Speaker 3: you know a place where you can you can safely

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Speaker 3: do so at your computer on your phone. Just google

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Speaker 3: Door Brothers, Scam Artists or Aaron Door, Chris Door, and

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Speaker 3: the third one I think is Alan I'm not entirely sure,

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Speaker 3: but Chris Door and Alan Door are the two I

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Speaker 3: think faces the organization. And they have these so called

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Speaker 3: gun rights groups that have popped up in several different states,

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Speaker 3: and apparently, according to a video they just released, they

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Speaker 3: formed Indiana Firearms Coalition in twenty twenty one. And the

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Speaker 3: video that kind of set me off and the reason

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Speaker 3: I decided to talk about them here on the show

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Speaker 3: tonight is video they put out here just recently that

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Speaker 3: they called, you know, the origins of IFC or Indiana

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Speaker 3: Firearms Coalition, and they talked about, well, why did we

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Speaker 3: form Indiana Firearms Coalition? And you know, what are the

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Speaker 3: wonderful things we've accomplished and what are we trying to

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Speaker 3: fix in terms of the problem with all these other

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Speaker 3: people that are failing so miserably to protect Second Amendment

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Speaker 3: rights in Indiana. And that was the tenor of the video.

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Speaker 3: And I don't so much want to direct people to

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Speaker 3: the video because they start off bragging about the number

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Speaker 3: of views they get on their YouTube videos, and hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm guilty. I went and watched the thing, and by

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Speaker 3: the time it was over, I was so angry. I

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Speaker 3: was angry generally. I was angry on a personal level

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Speaker 3: because they really tried to claim credit for a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that I directly contributed to. If not, we're

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Speaker 3: responsible for. And I tried to be an adult on

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Speaker 3: those things. But it's something that can certainly set you

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Speaker 3: off a bit, as it did me. But the Indian

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Speaker 3: A Firearms Coalition, and listen, I think they intentionally created

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Speaker 3: a name very close to the Firearms Policy Coalition. Now

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Speaker 3: that's a national group. And let's just talk about gun

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Speaker 3: rights groups for a minute before I get back to

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Speaker 3: the door Brothers being the grifters and the scam artists

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Speaker 3: that they are. There are a lot of national organizations

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Speaker 3: out there, and listen, for decades, for generations, we had

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Speaker 3: really since the not long after I believe it was

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Speaker 3: a civil war the NRA was for him and and

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Speaker 3: and NRA has been the big kid on the block

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Speaker 3: with gun rights groups and and have done an awful

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Speaker 3: lot of good for an awful lot of years. A

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Speaker 3: lot of us have become very concerned about the direction

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Speaker 3: of NRA, especially under Wayne law Pierre there I think

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Speaker 3: he was executive vice president, but he was the guy

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Speaker 3: running the organization. And there were whole kinds of litigation

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Speaker 3: involving mismanagement of funds, and and and the direction of NRA,

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Speaker 3: you know, drifted to a large degree, and so many

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Speaker 3: so much of its resources and the money people contributed

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Speaker 3: started going to defending the lawsuits against NRA as opposed

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Speaker 3: to going out there and doing the things that we

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Speaker 3: really needed to get done. Now, make no mistake, I

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Speaker 3: am a benefactor level life member of NRA, and I

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Speaker 3: truly believe we need a strong, fully resourced, powerful influential

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Speaker 3: NRA in this country. Gun rights are better off when

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Speaker 3: the n RA A is fully functional, fully fully funded,

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Speaker 3: and doing the job that they they were chartered to do.

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Speaker 3: When when the group was created again, it started off

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Speaker 3: as really a marksmanship focused group, and it's quickly focused

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Speaker 3: to being policy and legislative and lobbying to a large

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Speaker 3: degree after so many of the attacks started being launched

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Speaker 3: on our Second Amendment rights. But n RA in recent

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Speaker 3: years is one of the reasons I formed a two

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Speaker 3: A project. I was worried about a gap between n

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Speaker 3: ra's influence and ability to help us fight off attacks

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Speaker 3: on our two AA rights, help us get uh pro

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Speaker 3: two AA legislation passed. I said, you know what, I

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Speaker 3: don't wanna. I don't I don't want to. I don't

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Speaker 3: want to. I'm wanna. I don't want to miss any

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Speaker 3: opportunities here. I don't want to need gaps. And and

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Speaker 3: this says nothing against NRA. I'm still a proud member.

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Speaker 3: I go to their national meetings, but a lot of

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Speaker 3: us lost a lot of confidence, especially over the last five, six,

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Speaker 3: seven years in NRA. But again I'm a defender and

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Speaker 3: supporter and member and will remain so of NRA. And

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Speaker 3: I'm very glad we now have three board members at

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Speaker 3: NRA from Indiana. We have Craig Haggard, state representative now

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Speaker 3: running for Congress. We have Charlie Hilton and who's president

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Speaker 3: of the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association, a good

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Speaker 3: friend of mine, and just a great guy, as is

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Speaker 3: Craig Haggard. And then you have Jim Jim Toms, state

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Speaker 3: Senator from Indiana, who drafted our preemption law here in

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Speaker 3: Indiana went into effect back in twenty eleven, which is

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Speaker 3: still one of the most important pro gun bills we've

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Speaker 3: ever gotten passed in this state, which prevents local governments

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Speaker 3: from regulating firearms, which is huge. If you allowed Bloomington

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Speaker 3: and Fort Wayne, in East Chicago, Hammond, all these different

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Speaker 3: communities to regulate guns the way they would independently as

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Speaker 3: a local government, we'd have a whole different situation here

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Speaker 3: in Indiana. So Jim Toms did that. Tom's tomes you

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Speaker 3: hear different pronunciations. I just call him Jim when I

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Speaker 3: see him. But he and I've worked together a lot too.

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Speaker 3: So with those three guys on the board of NRA,

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Speaker 3: I'm hopeful they can really help steer NRA in the

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Speaker 3: right direction because we need NRA. But in addition to NRA,

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Speaker 3: there are some other really great groups that have had

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Speaker 3: a lot of success here recently, especially in the courtroom,

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Speaker 3: and there I'm talking about Gun Owners of America. I'm

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Speaker 3: also a proud member of Gun Owners of America GOA.

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Speaker 3: They've done some great things. They've won some great victories

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Speaker 3: for US in court. Firearms Policy Coalition, and that's the

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Speaker 3: group I mentioned because I'm concerned that Indiana Firearms Coalition,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Firearms Policy Coalition is the national group that

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Speaker 3: I'm fully behind. They do great work, They've won some

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Speaker 3: great victories in court in a firearms coalition. Is are

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Speaker 3: the Door Brothers. That's a Door Brothers organization. They've set

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Speaker 3: up similar lobbying quote unquote groups or so called gun

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Speaker 3: rights groups across multiple states. These guys are from Iowa apparently,

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Speaker 3: but they've set up these kind of sister organizations in

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Speaker 3: different states. But there are some great national groups out

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Speaker 3: there doing great things right here in the state. You've

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Speaker 3: got the two A Project, that's the organization I've founded.

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Speaker 3: You got Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association. And I

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Speaker 3: worked very closely with those guys. We're on each other's

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Speaker 3: email distribution list. We share strategy, we get together before

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Speaker 3: every legislative session, we sit together at the committee. Here

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Speaker 3: again I mentioned Charlie hilltonan long term great friend of mine.

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Speaker 3: Kelly and Avon Kelly Myers here calling to the show

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Speaker 3: often also a member of the two A Project, but

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Speaker 3: co director of legislative Affairs along with Jerry Torr, recently

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Speaker 3: retired state representative, also co director of Legislative Affairs for ISRPA.

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Speaker 3: The eight people, good people whose hearts are in the

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Speaker 3: right place, who are doing great work, and who show up.

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Speaker 3: They're there. I know because I'm there, and I've been

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Speaker 3: going there and being there and fighting in the State

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Speaker 3: House for a damn long time. And so when you

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Speaker 3: see the folks that have fought hard and assisted in

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Speaker 3: drafting legislation, that's one thing I do of anybody I

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Speaker 3: just named, And I'm not trying to pat myself on

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Speaker 3: the back. It's just something that I've done and I'm

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Speaker 3: comfortable doing. I've drafted the most legislat I've drafted our

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Speaker 3: self defense immunity law that passed in twenty nineteen. I've

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Speaker 3: passed or excuse me, I drafted the expungement law relative

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Speaker 3: to our red flag cases that now allows people found

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Speaker 3: not dangerous to wipe that off their record. I've drafted

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Speaker 3: improvements to the guns on School Property bill. I've drafted

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Speaker 3: improvements other improvements that greatly whittled down the dramatic over

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Speaker 3: breadth that allows for dramatic misuse and abuse of the

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Speaker 3: red Flag Statute. I've drafted multiple bills that have assisted

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Speaker 3: in pairing that down to the way it ought to be.

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Speaker 3: I actould say multiple provisions of a bill to greatly

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Speaker 3: improve that law, which we've done. But there are people

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Speaker 3: here doing good work, and I'm a small part of

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Speaker 3: that team. But now what we have. We have the

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Speaker 3: Indiana Firearms Coalition. And if you get emails from these people,

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Speaker 3: they always start off with some crisis. And you know what,

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Speaker 3: NRA was doing a little bit too much of this too.

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Speaker 3: I would get email. I actually unsubscribed from a lot

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Speaker 3: of NRA's emails because I was getting emails. I say,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, there's this huge crisis. Send us money.

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Speaker 3: And with the door brothers, they're Indiana Firearms Coalition. Invariably,

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Speaker 3: the crises that they identify in these email are complete

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Speaker 3: false flags. They are complete red herrings. I mean I've

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Speaker 3: seen them here lately help us defeat Senate bill whatever

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Speaker 3: which would ban semi automatic weapons, or which would do

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Speaker 3: this or do that. And invariably you look at these

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Speaker 3: I'll say, hold on, what are they raising money on?

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Speaker 3: That basis for to fight that bill, because that bill's dead.

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Speaker 3: That bill died in committee. By the way, we're not

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Speaker 3: even in the legislative session right now. So if they

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Speaker 3: sent you some email that says, look, there's this horrible bill.

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Speaker 3: It was a bill that was filed last year and

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Speaker 3: last session, or could be this year in a session

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Speaker 3: that now that ended this spring, and it's not on

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Speaker 3: the table now. It may make it refiled next year,

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Speaker 3: and if it does, then we'll put the call out

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Speaker 3: to go kick its ass. But these false flag emergencies

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Speaker 3: and always end with and help us save your Second Amendment, right,

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Speaker 3: send us money, Send us money, Send us money, and listen.

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Speaker 3: I don't mind solicitations for money. I've engaged in that

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Speaker 3: too on behalf of the two A project. You don't

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Speaker 3: hear me talk a lot about that here, because I

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Speaker 3: don't know that people listen to the gun Guy Show

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Speaker 3: because they want to get solicited for money, other than

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Speaker 3: perhaps signed up for my classes, which I pitch on

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Speaker 3: the regular. But I don't mind so much the solicitation

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Speaker 3: of money, But it's what are you getting in return

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Speaker 3: for that in terms of what's being delivered to you,

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Speaker 3: in terms of the efforts on your behalf and are

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Speaker 3: they being stray with you on the reasons they're asking

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Speaker 3: for money. And that's where the Door Brothers Indiana Firearms

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Speaker 3: Coalition clearly, unquestionably are simply grifters. And listen, if I

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Speaker 3: mentioned before, if you're near a phone, you're near your computer,

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Speaker 3: you're not driving. Just google these guys, do your own search.

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Speaker 3: Read the articles. It's article after article after article about

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Speaker 3: what do these guys do. They do nothing in the

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Speaker 3: state houses where they have organizations, including here in Indiana.

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Speaker 3: Seeing these guys once ever in the state House, not

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Speaker 3: ever once, And I'm always there there's gun related bill,

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Speaker 3: I'm there. A lot of people will tell you that.

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Speaker 3: You know, they'll say, well, we send a lot of emails,

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Speaker 3: they post YouTube videos. They'll certainly attack people that they

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Speaker 3: say are selling out gun rights quote unquote. But it's

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Speaker 3: a way of causing division and the process put money

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Speaker 3: in their own pocket by getting people to donate to

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Speaker 3: the organization. Not believing that the other organizations or even

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Speaker 3: some of our best pro to A legislators are really

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Speaker 3: fighting for their rights. I say, well, gosh, maybe I'm

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Speaker 3: being sold out by these other people, by these other

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Speaker 3: organizations included maybe I ought to just send money to

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Speaker 3: these guys because they're the as they say, no compromise group,

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Speaker 3: and they'll stand.

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Speaker 4: Up for me.

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Speaker 3: Except PROBAB. They do is take your money and do

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Speaker 3: absolutely nothing. Then they wait to see what actually happens,

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Speaker 3: and then they swoop then take credit for it. We're

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Speaker 3: going to take a break. I'm a little past the

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Speaker 3: quarter hour. I'm gonna give you some specific examples based

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Speaker 3: on this most recent video that they posted where they're

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Speaker 3: taking specific credit for accomplishes. Accomplishments we've had it right

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Speaker 3: here in Indiana that they had absolutely nothing to do with.

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Speaker 3: And listen, I don't take pleasure in any of this

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Speaker 3: because pro two A groups, conservatives in general, we all

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Speaker 3: ought to be shoulder to shoulder, all ought to be

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Speaker 3: marching in lockstep. And I hated even gun owners.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 3: I'll go out there on the gun related pages that's

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Speaker 3: on social media or otherwise, and gun owners always want

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Speaker 3: to attack each other. You know, somebody will post a

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Speaker 3: picture of their rifle and other people will be making

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Speaker 3: fun of their dime store optics or there, this, that

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Speaker 3: or the other thing. It's like, come on, man, we're

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Speaker 3: sharing interest here. We're on the same team. And lately,

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Speaker 3: you know with this overused term of rhino, well that

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Speaker 3: people over there are rhinos. Listen, I'm not immune. I've

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Speaker 3: used that term. I've used it recently, but anymore that

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Speaker 3: gets used to create infighting, not because the target of

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Speaker 3: those attacks has legitimately sold us out, but because people

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Speaker 3: see that a way as a way to fundraise, and

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Speaker 3: that's the distinction without ever delivering any work product or

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Speaker 3: even any effort in the process. So it pains me

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Speaker 3: to go after a group that's ostensibly fighting for your

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Speaker 3: two AA rights. But I'll tell you what, I don't

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Speaker 3: want these people in Indiana. I don't want them getting

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Speaker 3: your money and having them not deliver on what it

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Speaker 3: is they promise, because I'll guarantee you they don't. They

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Speaker 3: collect your money and laugh on the way to the bank.

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Speaker 3: And that's that. And just google it, do your own research.

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Speaker 3: You'll see how many times across the country, legislators other

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Speaker 3: pro two A groups. Respected groups like NSSF National Shooting

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Speaker 3: Sports Foundation, which represents the firearms industry, including retailers and

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Speaker 3: manufacturers and gun shops and gun ranges and instructors. The

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Speaker 3: reason I'm a member but we're taking a break. We'll

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Speaker 3: come back. I'll get it more into this discussion and

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Speaker 3: go through some of the specifics of this most recent

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Speaker 3: Door Brothers video and how completely outlandish it is in

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Speaker 3: terms of the attacks they make on Indiana legislators, the

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Speaker 3: attacks they make another pro two AA gun groups, and

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Speaker 3: the credit they try to claim themselves for things they

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Speaker 3: had absolutely nothing to do with. It angers me and

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Speaker 3: it's time to call them out. This is Guy Ralford

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Speaker 3: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

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Speaker 1: Second to nine on this second amendment of This is

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Speaker 1: the Gun with Guy Ralford on WYBC.

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Speaker 3: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on the Gun Guy

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Speaker 3: Show on ninety three WIBC. So we're talking about this organization,

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Speaker 3: Indiana Firearms Coalition really set up by set of brothers.

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Speaker 3: There's actually four brothers, but the two that are most

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Speaker 3: vocal you see out there on YouTube and whatnot are

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Speaker 3: the oldest Aaron doordr R and his brother Chris, and

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Speaker 3: they do the same thing state to state to state.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, gun rights are not their only deal.

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Speaker 3: They really got going I think during COVID because they

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Speaker 3: started launching these fundraising efforts around fighting COVID restrictions, and

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Speaker 3: then they decided that conservatives were pretty good about opening

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Speaker 3: up their checkbook or getting their credit card out, and

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Speaker 3: they decided to set up the pro life anti abortion

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Speaker 3: websites and organizations and they were fundraising on that basis,

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Speaker 3: and then decided to add the Second Amendment to the mix.

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Speaker 3: And okay, you know, anybody can advocate for whatever causes

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Speaker 3: they believe in, and those are all causes that I

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Speaker 3: personally believe in. The problem is, what are they returning

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Speaker 3: as far as return on investment based on the donations

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Speaker 3: that they receive. And there are reports out there these

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Speaker 3: people nationally received millions of dollars, which is like a

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Speaker 3: punch in the gut to think that they're really just

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Speaker 3: putting that money in their own pocket and getting rich

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Speaker 3: off other people's desires to really fight to preserve liberties

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Speaker 3: in this country. But in the video that kind of

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Speaker 3: set me off. The reason I'm talking about it here

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Speaker 3: on the show is they talk about why they formed

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Speaker 3: Indiana Firearms Coalition and it was formed in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: and they talk about Indiana's red Flag law. And listen,

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Speaker 3: anytime we're going to talk about the red Flag law.

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Speaker 3: When I explain to people how the law works, and

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Speaker 3: I explained to them what is and isn't wrong with

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Speaker 3: the law, a lot of times people will misperceive that

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Speaker 3: and then mischaracterize that into believing that somehow or portraying

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Speaker 3: my discussion is that I'm somehow defending in the Indiana's

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Speaker 3: red flag law. There's no one that's been more vocal

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Speaker 3: than me in talking about the flaws and the abuse

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Speaker 3: associated with Indiana's red flag law. I litigate those cases.

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Speaker 3: I'm in court fighting for clients under this statute. And

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Speaker 3: I'm the only lawyer in this state who took the

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Speaker 3: statute up to the Indiana Court of Appeals arguing as

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Speaker 3: strongly and with as much powers of advocacy as I

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Speaker 3: could summon that it's unconstitutional. And in a two to

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Speaker 3: one decision, the Indiana Court of Appeals disagreed with me,

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Speaker 3: and the Supreme Court didn't choose to take the case.

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Speaker 3: But I argue the whole DM statute was unconstitutional law

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Speaker 3: to be set aside. So I'm not the guy who's

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Speaker 3: going to come into any discussion defending our red flag law.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, when people take issue with it

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Speaker 3: or talk about why it ought to be repealed. I

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Speaker 3: want to make sure if we're going to be effective

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Speaker 3: advocates for the Second Amendment, we need to do so

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Speaker 3: from a position not only of strength, but of accuracy

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Speaker 3: and of intellectual integracy, integrity. And by that I mean,

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Speaker 3: let's be right and let me tell you, as set

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Speaker 3: out in this video from the Door Brothers, they got

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Speaker 3: about every damn thing wrong. They clearly haven't taken the

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Speaker 3: time to even understand Indiana law and recent Indiana changes

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Speaker 3: or changes in Indiana law, or they're just not particularly bright,

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Speaker 3: or some combination of the of all the above. Let's

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Speaker 3: talk about the red flag law. It was passed in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five. Indiana was the second state in

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Speaker 3: the country to pass a red flag law, after Connecticut,

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Speaker 3: and the momentum behind getting it passed two thousand and

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Speaker 3: five was the murder, totally senseless murder of a very

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Speaker 3: beloved Indianapolis Police Department patrolman named Timothy nicknamed Jake Laird

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Speaker 3: and everybody knew him by Jake, thirty one years old

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Speaker 3: at the time, has happened on August eighteenth, two thousand

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Speaker 3: and four, and the person who murdered Jake Laird. Officer

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Speaker 3: Laird was a thirty three year old guy who lived

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Speaker 3: on Deet Street down on the Near south Side named

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Speaker 3: Kenneth Charles Anderson. And Kenneth Anderson was a guy who'd

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Speaker 3: had a history of mental health problems. He was a paranoid,

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Speaker 3: skidst a fronter, and he also had a bunch of guns.

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Speaker 3: He'd never been involuntarily committed to a mentalist, which would

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Speaker 3: have made him ineligible to possess guns or buy guns.

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Speaker 3: And he'd never been convicted of a serious crime like

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Speaker 3: a felony that would have also prohibited him from possessing firearms.

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Speaker 3: And multiple times when he would stop taking his medication,

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Speaker 3: he would start getting threatening. He would threaten violence, he'd

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Speaker 3: be loud, police would be called. He had had guns,

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Speaker 3: his guns taken from him. But he would then he

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Speaker 3: start taking his medication again, he'd calm down. He'd go

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Speaker 3: down to the police station and say I want my

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Speaker 3: guns back. And at the time, there was no legal mechanism,

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Speaker 3: there was no legal way for police to say no,

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Speaker 3: you can't have your guns back. He wasn't a prohibited possessor,

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Speaker 3: and so they had to give him his guns back.

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Speaker 3: There his property well, on August eighteen, two thousand and four,

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Speaker 3: again he's not taking his medication. He's having a schizophrenic episode.

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Speaker 3: He ends up murdering his wife and he goes out

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Speaker 3: into the street with a se automatic SKS seven to

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Speaker 3: sixty two rifle. It's firing shots, screaming and yelling. Police

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Speaker 3: are called. Multiple police respond, there's a shootout, a couple

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Speaker 3: of different officers were wounded, and Patrolman Jake Lair is killed.

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Speaker 3: And the legislature in the very next session looked at

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Speaker 3: this and a lot of people and when, for all

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Speaker 3: the flaws of our red flag law, I understand this,

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Speaker 3: A lot of legislators said, hold on, we knew this

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Speaker 3: guy had serious mental illness, we knew he didn't reliably

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Speaker 3: take his medication, we knew he was dangerous when he

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Speaker 3: didn't take his medication. Why couldn't his guns be taken

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Speaker 3: from him? Was the thought prize. And I'm not defending

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Speaker 3: any of this. And if somebody wants to sit down

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Speaker 3: a debate with me whether you should have your gun

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Speaker 3: sees from you when you haven't been institutionalized and you

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Speaker 3: haven't been convicted of any crime, I know which side

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Speaker 3: of that argument I'm going to take based on purely

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Speaker 3: constitutional grounds. I'm trying to explain to you the rationale

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Speaker 3: of the legislature, and the legislature said to be a

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Speaker 3: mechanism if someone's truly dangerous. So the way the statute

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Speaker 3: has worked and worked since the beginning is police can

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Speaker 3: either go to and this can be based on a

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Speaker 3: report from anybody. There's another where the door brothers are confused.

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Speaker 3: Since it's been passed in two thousand and five, the

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Speaker 3: Indiana Red Flag Statute allows your neighbor could call police

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Speaker 3: this guy's crazy, he's point of gun at me. I've

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Speaker 3: had this case, this guy's random and raven and point

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Speaker 3: of gun to me. That a family member can call police.

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Speaker 3: Police can just observe you directly as you're out in public,

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Speaker 3: or police get called to your house for whatever reason

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Speaker 3: and you're behaving in a way that make police think

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Speaker 3: you're both dangerous and possession of a firearm. Police can

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Speaker 3: either go to a court and ask for a judge

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Speaker 3: to determine whether there's probable cause based on information supplied

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Speaker 3: by the police officer that you're dangerous, and if so,

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Speaker 3: the judge sign's a warrant that says yes, go seize

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Speaker 3: this person's firearm. Are in more of an emergency situation

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Speaker 3: when it's just the police who encounter person who may

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00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: be dangerous. Police can seize the firearms. Then within within

431
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: forty eight hours, they have to submit. Now it's called

432
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: an aff David. That's changed a little bit. They used

433
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: to be able to report still some kind of a

434
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: report to the judge saying here's why I see this

435
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 3: guy's guns. And a judge then reviews that for probable cause.

436
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: And if a judge says no, there's no probable cause,

437
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: they say give him his guns back. If they say yes,

438
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: there's probable cause, okay, keep the guns, and then they

439
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: set up for a hearing, which is supposed to happen

440
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: in fourteen days. And that's where the person has full

441
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 3: blown due process. Now, when people say guns can be

442
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: seized on the front end with no due process, is

443
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: that true or is that not true? That is, a

444
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: police officer can take the guns and there's no court hearing,

445
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: there's no opportunity to argue your case, no opportunity to

446
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: have a lawyer. That doesn't sound like due process, does it.

447
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: We'll tell you what. We're a little past bomb in

448
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 3: the ar I'm going to break there. We'll come back

449
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: and it is their due or is there a sufficient

450
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 3: new process, which is a whole separate question in the

451
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 3: Red Flag Law. I'll come back then and talk about

452
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: the attacks on Indiana, attacks on Indiana legislators by these idiots,

453
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: the Door Brothers, and how it's really completely not only unfounded,

454
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: I think it's intentionally disingenuous, purely as a grift, purely

455
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: as a scam to raise money to line their own pockets.

456
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: That's what we'll get into when we come back, says

457
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

458
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 1: This show about gun rights, gun safety, and responsible gun ownership.

459
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety

460
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: three WYPC.

461
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: And welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

462
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: Show on ninety three WIBC. So, again, if anybody's just

463
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 3: joining us, I'm explaining how our Red Flag law, that

464
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: is a gun seizure law that allows guns to be

465
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: sees from people that are quote unquote dangerous, how it works.

466
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: And please do not take my expl for how the

467
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 3: statute works to be an argument by me that I'm

468
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: in favor of the law. That's not my point. I'm

469
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: simply explaining the way the law functions and explaining what

470
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: attacks on the law are legitimate and which ones don't

471
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: have any real legal support. And that's an important point.

472
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: If we're going to be intellectually honest about the discussion

473
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: and how we can we can either improve it or

474
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: get rid of it altogether. Let's do so on the

475
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: basis of facts and correct legal interpretation of how the

476
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: statute actually functions. So a policeman encounters someone who's acting

477
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: strangely threatening people waving a gun around. They take that

478
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: gun away from them, and in that moment that that

479
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 3: person has their gun, sees has there been any due process? No,

480
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: none whatsoever. Okay, But the police officer has to submit

481
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: now an affidavit to a judge who reviews that affidavit

482
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 3: to determine whether it establishes probable call us that the

483
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: person's dangerous, so that the officer was correct in seizing

484
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: the gun, because that's the standard for the police officer

485
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: to seize the gun to begin with probable cause to

486
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: believe dangerousness. When the judge reviews the affidavit for probable cause,

487
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: that's the first step in due process, not complete due process.

488
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 3: But consider this people, let say there's no due process.

489
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: And again I'm not defending the statute. I'm explaining how

490
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 3: it works. When a police officer sees you, let's say,

491
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: sees you commit an arm robbery on the sidewalking downtown Indianapolis.

492
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: Police officer sees you, pulls up, pulls their gun, disarms you,

493
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: puts you in the back, puts you in the back

494
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: of the police cruiser, and takes you to jail. Now,

495
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: there's a dramatic difference in that situation, because you've just

496
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: committed a serious felony and you deserve to get arrested

497
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: based on that officer observing you. However, the only point

498
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: I'm making is in the moment the police officer puts

499
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: you in the back of the car, in handcuffs and

500
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: takes you to jail, you've had no due process whatsoever.

501
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: So how is that constitutional if you can't be deprived

502
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 3: of life liberty. Well, if you're in handcuffs in the

503
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: back of a police car on the way to jail,

504
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: you've been deprived of your liberty without due process. How

505
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: can that possibly be Well, because we can't convene a

506
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: court session there on the sidewalk to determine whether it's

507
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: probable cause for your arrest. So the system and what's

508
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: been determined to be constitutional in the context of due

509
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: process is, yes, you go to jail, but then you

510
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: promptly have a hearing before a judge for the judge

511
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 3: to determine whether there's probable cost for you to be held,

512
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: and only if, and then this can be done in writing,

513
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: it could be done on the submission of Affidavit's very

514
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: very similar, not identical to what we're talking about with

515
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: red flagwaws. A judge then determines probably cause, aha, no

516
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: probable cause. You get set free due process. But then

517
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: the real point is, do you, in an a timely

518
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: basis get to have full due process, have a lawyer

519
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: to compel witnesses to testify on your behalf, confront the

520
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: witnesses against you, all the elements of due process. None

521
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: of that's immediate. It all happens eventually, and therefore that

522
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: process is constitutional in the due process area. The red

523
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: flag law was designed around that. No, you don't get

524
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: due process when your guns are seized by a police officer,

525
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: but a judge reviews the seizure for probable cause, just

526
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: like an arrest. No, you don't get full due process

527
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: at the time the judge is reviewing that affidavit. That's

528
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: just one side only. And yes, eventually it's supposed to

529
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: be happening in fourteen days unless you ask for more time.

530
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: As the person's who person whose gun was seized, you

531
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: get a hearing where you have full due process. So

532
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: for people to come out and say there's no due process,

533
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: well it's not perfect due process. But let's attack the

534
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: statute on legitimate basis and let's reform it and let's

535
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: cure the abuses. That's why I've been working on for

536
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: a damn long time and with a lot of success.

537
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: I wanted to lay that out and give you that

538
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: context before we get into the specifics of the Door

539
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: Brothers attack on Indiana, on Indiana legislators, on other pro

540
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: gun groups based on what's happened with our red flag

541
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 3: law in recent years. We'll get back into that discussion

542
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: here in just a moment. By the way, we have

543
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: a very short short segment. We come back. Our phone

544
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: lines are apparently down. I got producer Jack working on that.

545
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 3: Hopefully we can get that fixed in the next hour.

546
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: And ten minutes. But right now apparently the phone lines

547
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: are down, which happens here somewhat on the regular at WIBC.

548
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: Hopefully we can get that cured, and if so, I

549
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: will let you know. Right now we're taking a break.

550
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: Is this Guy Ralford on the Gun Guy Show on

551
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: ninety three WIBC.

552
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: Is your rights, it is your responsibilities, your guns. This

553
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WYVC.

554
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: So in explaining a little bit how the red flag

555
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 3: law works, again, I can't emphasize this enough. Do not

556
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: take that as me defending the red flag law. I

557
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: was explaining it and explaining why there's some attacks make

558
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: more sense than others, an attack that I've been making

559
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: since day one and really points to how this was

560
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: rushed through the General Assembly in two thousand and five.

561
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: Is the horrible, horrible.

562
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: Definition of dangerous that was in the statute. These door

563
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 3: Brother idiots start off their video early on saying, oh, yeah,

564
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: I was passed and there was no definition of dangerous.

565
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: It's whatever a police officer thinks it is. No, there

566
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: was a definition. It's in section one of the statute.

567
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: I'm not really sure how you missed it. There, guys,

568
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: But there was a definition, but it was just horribly overbroad.

569
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: The definition started off, if a person's an imminent risk

570
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 3: of personal injury to themselves or others. Okay, well, that

571
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: part makes a little bit of sense. Imminent risk of

572
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: personal injury to yourself for others. But then it went

573
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 3: on to say, or the person may be a risk

574
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: of personal injury to themselves or others in the future,

575
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: may maybe in the future. How incredibly overbroad is that?

576
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: And one of two things. Either they have a mental

577
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: illness is controlled by medication, but they don't reliably take

578
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: their medication, or there's documented evidence which will give rise

579
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: to reasonable belief that they have a propensity for either

580
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 3: violent or emotionally unstable conduct. And I asked you, I

581
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: we know what violent conduct is, You're trying to hurt somebody.

582
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: What's emotionally unstable mean? What does that mean? What is

583
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: emotionally unstable me? It means whatever a judge wants it

584
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 3: to meet. That was the original definition. That was a problem,

585
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 3: and that's what we needed to fix and we did.

586
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 3: Right now, we're taking a break. Top of the hour.

587
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: Is is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

588
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: ninety three WYBC.

589
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of

590
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: a free state, the right of the people to keep

591
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: in their arms shall not be infringed. This it's the

592
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: Second Amendment. And this is the gun Guy a boom.

593
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: Boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom boom,

594
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: boom bang bang bom.

595
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC, And.

596
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: Welcome back for our number two the gun Guy Show

597
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 3: here on ninety three WIBC. So, I'm talking about some

598
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: scam artists, some absolute unquestionable grifters in form of the

599
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: Door Brothers who have this organization now one of several

600
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 3: state organizations that are popped up across the country founded

601
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: by these guys called Indiana Firearms Coalition, and it's a

602
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: scam group. They don't actually do anything. They send some

603
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: emails looking for money and then they post YouTube videos

604
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 3: claiming about their victories, but they don't actually have any victories.

605
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: What they're doing is claiming credit for what others have accomplished,

606
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: and in the process they'll criticize anybody actually involved in

607
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 3: the fight for two A rights in the various states

608
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: where they have a presence, as slimy A presence as

609
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: it may be. And we're talking about this video that

610
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: they posted here just recently, and my friends at Indiana

611
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: State Rifle and Pistol Association sent it to me and

612
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 3: they knew it would set me off, and of course

613
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: it did. So they're talking about why they formed the

614
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: Indiana Firearms or excuse me, the Indiana Firearms Coalition, and

615
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: they said, well, we did it in two thousand and

616
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 3: twenty one, really in reaction to the horrible Rhinos expanding

617
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: the red flag lawn in twenty nineteen and making it

618
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: much worse, and so we just felt we had to

619
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: do something for Indiana gun owners. Well, what actually happened

620
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen. I was explaining before the break the

621
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: top of the hour that one of the main problems

622
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: with the Red Flag Law and something and I actually

623
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 3: this was part of my argument for why the two

624
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 3: A or why the red Flag Law is unconstitutional as

625
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: it previously existed anyway, is the incredibly vague and overly

626
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: broad definition of dangerous because it not only, as I

627
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: said before the break, not only did it include someone

628
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: who's an imminent danger an imminent risk of personal injury

629
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: to themselves or others, but it included if they may

630
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 3: be a risk of personal injury to themselves or others

631
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: in the future. Maybe. And I actually had an mdphd

632
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 3: psychiatrist on the stand in one Red Flag hearing and

633
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: he was asked by a prosecutor, well, is the respondent

634
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: and that's the person whose guns were sived? Is mister

635
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: so and so a potential future risk? When the psychiatrist said, well,

636
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 3: everybody's a potential future risk, Boom, You've just checked that box.

637
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: But then the second box it has to be checked

638
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 3: under this alternative definition of dangerous is either the person

639
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: has a mental illness controlled by medication, but they don't

640
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: reliably take their medication, or there's documented evidence which will

641
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 3: give rise to a reasonable belief that they have a

642
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: propensity for a violent or emotionally unstable conduct. Now, why

643
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: did the legislature go beyond someone who's an imminent danger

644
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: and talk about someone who just may be a danger

645
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: in the future. Because that's as I argue to the

646
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: Court of Appeals, and I still think this was absolutely correct.

647
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 3: Why that's unconstitutionally vague is because it's put in judges

648
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: and at least on the street. Initially, police officers in

649
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: the position of trying to read minds. And in fact,

650
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: I made the analogy to the movie Minority Report with

651
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise, where it was this futuristic police department and

652
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: they formed a department of pre crime and they had

653
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: these three psychics called Precogs. And the Precogs I recall,

654
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: they kind of drifted around in this sensory deprivation kind

655
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 3: of an environment and they and they did psychic things

656
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: and they predicted the future and they would come back

657
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 3: and they say, well, guy Rufford's going to commit a

658
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: crime three weeks from Monday and he's going to commit

659
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: this horrible murder or whatever it might be. And they'd

660
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: go arrest you before you committed the crime. And this

661
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 3: is all great because now it's crime prevention, right, And

662
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: of course that all breaks down and innocent people start

663
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: getting carted off to jail, and that's the point of

664
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: the movie. And I said, you're asking judges at a hearing.

665
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: If you say somebody may be a dangerous in the future,

666
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: may be dangerous in the future, you're asking judges to

667
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: be the Precox from the Minority Report, something they're ill

668
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: equipped to do. I don't know that a psychiatrist is

669
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: equipped fully to predict someone's behavior in the future. I

670
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: know for a fact they're not much less a judge.

671
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: It's not what they're trained to do. And I still

672
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: think I'm right on that argument, and respectfully disagree with

673
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 3: the Court of Appeals didn't throw that provision of the

674
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: statute out. But it was a huge problem, especially and

675
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: maybe a danger in the future combined with this danger

676
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: or excuse me, violent or emotionally unstable conduct. What's emotionally

677
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 3: unstable me? I made this argument many many times before

678
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 3: we finally got the statute improved. I started to say fixed,

679
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't go that far improved in twenty nineteen.

680
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 3: And what's emotionally unstable? And if I'm watching a Colts

681
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 3: game and the quarterback throws an interception and I cuss

682
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: a lot and throw my pillow at the TV, my

683
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 3: wife would say, that's emotionally unstable. Do I have a

684
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: propensity for emotionally unstable conduct? And if so, since I

685
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: may be a risk of personal injury in the future,

686
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: since everyone's a potential risk, then boom, I can have

687
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: my guns taken away from me. That's not okay, especially

688
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 3: going back to the baseline position, if should anyone ever

689
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: have their guns taken from them and they've not committed

690
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 3: any crime, which is the fundamental attack on red flag laws.

691
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: And so in twenty nineteen, a couple of things were

692
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: happening together. And by the way, you need to know

693
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: these facts to fully understand how completely off base and

694
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 3: dishonest the Door Brothers are in their attack on legislators

695
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: who were involved in this process or gun rights groups

696
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: that were were not involved in this process. Approaching twenty nineteen,

697
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: a number of things were going on. I was going

698
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 3: to legislators saying, we got to fix this vague statute

699
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 3: of dangers. You're having people lose red flagcses and have

700
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: their constitutional rights destroyed in the context of the Second Amendment. Anyway,

701
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: who are truly not dangerous. It's because judges were rely

702
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 3: on this emotionally unstable business. When emotionally unstable doesn't mean

703
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: they're going to hurt anybody, and it certainly doesn't mean

704
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: they're going to use a gun to hurt anybody. Why

705
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 3: are we taking constitutional rights away from people on that basis?

706
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: Makes no sense. At the same time, on the other

707
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: side of the equation, a lot of Republican lawmakers were

708
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: getting approached by law enforcement, and they also got approached

709
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: by people I deeply, deeply respect. That's the parents of

710
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: j Claired and and and I met Michael Laird on

711
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 3: multiple occasions, and his wife he always calls missus l

712
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 3: so I can never remember her first name, and I

713
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 3: apologize for that if they listen to this or get

714
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: wind of it. But Michael Laired a true gentleman. And

715
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: he's obviously very very very pro cop, being the father

716
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: of a murdered police officer, but he's he's also pro

717
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: two W A A. He's not an anti gunzela or

718
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: a gun grabber or any other of the names you

719
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: want to want to put on people who are trying

720
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 3: to deprive people of their constitutional rights. That's not who

721
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 3: he is. But police officers, including the Lairds, realized that

722
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: there was, from their perspective anyway, a hole in the

723
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 3: red Flag statue, which is that, yes, if you're found

724
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: to be dangerous, you get your full due process and

725
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: you bring your own lawyer in, you present your own arguments,

726
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 3: present your own evidence, but the judge rules against you

727
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: and finds you to be dangerous under the law as

728
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 3: it existed before twenty nineteen. You could say okay, which

729
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: meant that the police would keep the guns they seized

730
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: from you. But you could walk right out of the courthouse,

731
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 3: walk across the street to a gun store and buy

732
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: another gun, and it was nothing that prohibited you from

733
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 3: doing that because you weren't a quote unquote prohibitive possessor

734
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: by being found to be dangerous under state or federal law.

735
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: And listen, have I ever seen cases where people were

736
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: legitimately dangerous? Yes, I have seen that case. Doesn't mean

737
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: I'm supporting the red flag law. I'm just telling you

738
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 3: there are people out there who are truly dangerous. And

739
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: so a lot of momentums started building up in the

740
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: General Assembly to put in a penalty for buying a gun,

741
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: or acquiring a gun, or even possessing a gun after

742
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 3: you've been found to be dangerous. And I got consulted

743
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: on this by several different lawmakers, including Donna Shibiley, who

744
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: was really in the forefront and working with the lairds

745
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 3: on this issue of this whole of where yeah, you

746
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: can be found to be dangerous, but you can just

747
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: go out and buy another gun. And I said, well, listen,

748
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: I'll get involved in this I'm not going to advocate

749
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 3: for the change you want to make because that's expanding

750
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 3: the red flag law and that's not something I'm going

751
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: to support. But if you think there's overwhelming support for that,

752
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: I said, I'll tell you right now. There are many

753
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: other things in this statute that are horribly flawed and

754
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 3: we need to fix. And the number one thing is

755
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 3: this ridiculously overly broad definition of dangerous, including this emotionally

756
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: unstable bs. And I was talking to Representative Shibly, who

757
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: by the way, was my representative at the time because

758
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: her district covered Scienceville, where I live no longer does

759
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 3: and she didn't run for reelection. But and she goes, well, guy,

760
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: emotionally unstable. Where you know, I think the rest legilature

761
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: was trying to reach people that are suicidal because we

762
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 3: want to be able to to keep people safe who

763
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 3: are suicidal by by separating them from their guns. And

764
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: I said, well, then say suicidal. That's easy because I

765
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: can in court, I can prove or present evidence on

766
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 3: whether somebody is suicidal or not. Have they tried to

767
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 3: kill themselves no, and they talked about killing themselves.

768
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: No.

769
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 3: Have they locked themselves in the bathroom with a gun

770
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 3: to their head. No, they're not suicidal. I win give

771
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 3: them his guns back. Violent. Yes, he tried to hurt somebody. No,

772
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 3: he's not violent. So violent or suicidal conduct makes some sense.

773
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: And by the way, on this may be a danger

774
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: in the future, that's not based on any evidence. That's

775
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: just speculation. So we changed that to according to the

776
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: bill that I helped or at least I contributed to

777
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen, make it at least probable they will

778
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 3: be a danger. And why was that maybe a danger

779
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 3: in the future in there at all? Kenneth Anderson the

780
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 3: crazy guy who murdered Ja Laird. He was a paranoid

781
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 3: schizophrenic who didn't take his medication, so they but he

782
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: had documented evidence that he'd been dangerous in the past

783
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: and threatening hadn't committed a crime or at least been

784
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 3: convicted of a crime. So they wrote this may be

785
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 3: a danger in the future thing specifically around the facts

786
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: of the Laired case and Kenneth Anderson's owned conduct prior

787
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: to the murder of Officer Laird. And I get that,

788
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: I understand their motivation, but they wrote a ridiculous, overly

789
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 3: brought in my view, as I argued unconstitutional statute in

790
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: the process, so we changed that to say it's probable

791
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: they will be a danger in the future.

792
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 4: Ah.

793
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 3: Now that takes some evidence based on what and it

794
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 3: has to be clear and convincing evidence. By the way,

795
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 3: now we've firmed up this definition, I'll tell you right now,

796
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: I have won a good at least a dozen Red

797
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 3: Flag cases because we firmed up that definition of dangerous.

798
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 3: That was a huge, huge, huge improvement to that bill,

799
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: and we built in several other improvements. Now instead of

800
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 3: police necessarily holding onto your gun while you're fighting over

801
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: whether your gun should have been seized under the Red

802
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: Flag law, now you can have them be held by

803
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 3: a quote unquote responsible person, your buddy with the gun safe,

804
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 3: a gun store. You know somebody owns a gun store.

805
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: Hey man, can you hold my guns while I'm going

806
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 3: through this red flag thing. Sure, they signed affidavit that says,

807
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 3: I guy a secure place to store them, and I

808
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: won't give them back until the person's found it not

809
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: be dangerous. Now you can have your guns not stored

810
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: in a barrel in the damp basement of the city

811
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 3: County building in the impd property room, but held in

812
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 3: a way, they won't be damaged. We build in if

813
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 3: they are damaged because they're not stored responsibly by the police,

814
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 3: are handled responsibly. The police departments is now liable for that.

815
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: They have to write you a check and compensate you

816
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: for that. That's an improvement we made. In twenty nineteen,

817
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 3: there were some departments across the country that were engraving

818
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: either the receiver or the barrel of a gun, engraving

819
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 3: it with the cause number of the red flagcase to

820
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 3: identify that gun for the red flatcase. I'll tell you

821
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 3: what I've got some I don't have any real, real

822
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: expensive guns, but I've got some nice guns. You engrave

823
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 3: the barrel of my gun with a hand engraver like

824
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: some of these departments were doing. Hell no, we said

825
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: it's illegal to do that, and several other significant improvements.

826
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: And what we were bargaining with, especially to get this

827
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: ridiculous definition of dangerous improved, was the momentum that was

828
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 3: already behind the amendment of the statute to include making

829
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 3: someone who's been found to be dangerous a prohibited possessor.

830
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 3: And listen, that train was going to leave the station.

831
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: I talked to a lot of different legislators and said, yeah, man,

832
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: I've heard from a lot of cops on this, if

833
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 3: you know a lot of other people in the community,

834
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 3: this is something we got to fix in this statute.

835
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: And I said, well, hold on, before you do that,

836
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 3: let's fix some things on the other side of the

837
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: ledger that are really wrong with the statute from a

838
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 3: gun owner's perspective. And we ended up getting a ton done,

839
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: including the dramatic improvement of the definition of dangerous. So

840
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,720
Speaker 3: that's what's happened in two thousand, that's what actually happened

841
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen. What did the Door Brothers say about

842
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 3: all that? Why did they say they founded Indiana Firearms

843
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 3: Coalition because gun owners were getting sold down the river

844
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 3: by existing organizations based on the amendment of the Red

845
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: Flags tab shoot in twenty nineteen. The amendments I just

846
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: described to you is the context. That's what we'll get

847
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: into when we come back. Right now, we're taking a break.

848
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

849
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 3: ninety three WIBC.

850
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: Now you got a gun guy, Guy Ralford on ninety

851
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: three WYPC.

852
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 3: Welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show

853
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 3: on ninety three WIBC training out the Indiana Firearm Coalition,

854
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 3: and again, I hate it when gun rights groups turn

855
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: on each other, but these guys are just griffers and frauds,

856
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 3: and I really want to expose them for what they are.

857
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: A lot of other people have seriously just google it

858
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 3: Door Brothers two A whatever you want to call it,

859
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: dal r R and it did a lot of different articles.

860
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 3: By the way, my friend Chris Lee at the National

861
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 3: Shooting Sports Foundation wrote a great article in Shooting Sports

862
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: that talks about these guys and really exposes them. So

863
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: in the same video talking about of course, they went

864
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 3: after Chris personally posted a picture of him with hunting

865
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 3: gear on holding a beautiful pheasant up, and they ridiculed

866
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 3: him for, you know, being a false firearm enthusiast because

867
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 3: he had you know, quote unquote new hunting equipment on

868
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 3: and all that was just bus I know Chris, I've

869
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 3: known him for years. He's been a long time hunter

870
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 3: his whole life and a true advocate for Second Amendment rights.

871
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: And it just shows you how idiotic the attacks these

872
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 3: people make on people really can be. By the way

873
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: they went after Chris, by the way, I'm fully expecting

874
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 3: something along the lines coming after me. Hey, take your

875
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 3: best shot. But their position in this video is they

876
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: formed the Indiana Firearms Coalition because of the horrible rhinos

877
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 3: and backstabbers that not only stood by while the red

878
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 3: Flag statue was passed in two thousand and five, but

879
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 3: then stepped up and actually made it much much worse

880
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen. And then they said, boy, we just

881
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 3: can't let this spread. And this is going to enfluce

882
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 3: in so other states, and it allows lawmakers in other

883
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 3: states to say, wow, if red state like Indiana can

884
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: pass this horrible red flag law, that we should be

885
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 3: able to do it here. So they need to step

886
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 3: up and save us from what's going on in the

887
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 3: Indiana General Assembly. And so they formed the Indiana Firearms

888
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: Coalition in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty one. Rather and listen,

889
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 3: they're just wrong about the statute. In twenty nineteen, we

890
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 3: dramatically improved the statute. I was right in the middle

891
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: of the process. I was the one fighting to fix

892
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: the definition of dangerous and we got that done. And again,

893
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: there are people right now that still have their gun

894
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 3: rights because we took out this ridiculous emotionally unstable and

895
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 3: maybe a danger in the future, but now there has

896
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: to be real evidence of dangerousness or including being suicidal,

897
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 3: and people will win cases for generations based on those improvements.

898
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 3: That wasn't selling anybody down the river. That wasn't turning

899
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 3: our backs on gun owners. That was fighting the fight,

900
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 3: as participating in the process, being at the table. I

901
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 3: know a lot of this was around my table in

902
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: my office in Carnibal Well, meeting legislators, going here's how

903
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: we can improve this thing that needs to be improved.

904
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 3: And yes, they added criminal penalties to say, if you

905
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: buy a gun or possessed gun after you're found to

906
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: be dangerous, then now that's a mist By the way,

907
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 3: they wanted to make it a felony, and I participated

908
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: in discussions where we talked him into reducing it only

909
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 3: to a misdemeanor. It's a felony. If you provide a

910
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 3: gun to someone knowing they've been determined to be dangerous,

911
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 3: you yourself only a misdemeanor. So we held that down.

912
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 3: But yes, you could say that was an expansion of

913
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: the red flag statute. That's fair, but it was more

914
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 3: than counterbalanced by the dramatic improvements we made in it,

915
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 3: and that's helping a lot of people. I know because

916
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 3: I handle the cases on the ground in the courtroom.

917
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 3: And with that, I'll tell you what. Let's go to

918
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 3: the phone lines because Anthony has called in to I

919
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 3: believe talking about the Door Brothers as well. Anthony, Welcome

920
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 3: to the Gun Guy Show.

921
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, good evening. I'm glad you stepped up to talk

922
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 4: about these grifters. Uh. I want something that you haven't

923
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 4: mentioned yet.

924
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: Uh.

925
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 4: And they do this with every single one of their

926
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 4: headquarters though, what seventeen different headquarters bet.

927
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're ups box stores, Yeah, the.

928
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 4: UPS Mail and Parcel drop box. Yeah, Washington Street in Indianapolis, Yeah,

929
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 4: I know, and every single one. The other thing is

930
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 4: is that you know these guys are going after kind

931
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 4: of you tangently. But some of the guys in the

932
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 4: Indiana General Assembly who get no credit from them for

933
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 4: doing stuff like Ben Smaaltz.

934
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 3: There, they went after Ben in this same video. They said, Oh, well,

935
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: we're gonna primary Ben Smalltz and that's going to put

936
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 3: the fear of God in him because we're gonna, we're gonna,

937
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 3: we're gonna fund his opponent Ben Smallts isn't losing any

938
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: primary anytime soon, certainly not because of the Door Brothers.

939
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, you and Jim Lucas did the Kisney's law. Yeah

940
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 4: you know, where were these guys, you know, cricketing?

941
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 3: Well, exactly, and listen, Anthey, thanks so much for your call.

942
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: I've never seen these guys in the state House. And listen.

943
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: Aaron dor in particular, he's kind of he's the older one,

944
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 3: he's the most vocal. I think he says he brags

945
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 3: about being so involved in the legislative process. He's a

946
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 3: noticeable guy. He's a great, big, heavy guy, balding. Hey,

947
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 3: don't put that. I don't hold that against him. But

948
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 3: he's got these big dark circles under his eyes. He

949
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 3: just looks as shady as he really is. He's not

950
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 3: a guy you're gonna miss walking around the hallways of

951
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 3: the state House, much less showing up in a a

952
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 3: in a committee hearing somewhere. He's never ever shown up

953
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 3: in support of a bill. I've seen a couple of pictures.

954
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 3: In fact, I've seen articles from other states where he

955
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: was made fun of and ridiculed because he showed up

956
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: with a tripod to take a picture of himself in

957
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 3: the state House pose for the picture, took the tripod

958
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: down and the left, and they were in the middle

959
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 3: of the legislative session. His only involvement was just to

960
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: catch a picture of himself in the state House before

961
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 3: we ran out the door. Let's go back to the

962
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 3: phone lines and Kelly and Avon, my buddy has called.

963
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 5: Hey, Kelly, Hey guy, how are you doing.

964
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 3: I'm all right, get myself a little riled up here.

965
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 6: Me too.

966
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 5: I also wasted thirty eight minutes and fourteen seconds of

967
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 5: my life yesterday watching watching that video. I'll tell you what, though,

968
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 5: Indiana gun Owners caught some actual hate from the oldest

969
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 5: door brother there. I kind of view that as street

970
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 5: cred for Indiana gun Owners.

971
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: Which, yeah, you know, and if you don't know about that, yeah,

972
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 3: people don't know about that. It's Indiana Gun Owners dot Com,

973
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 3: affectionately known as NGO, and I'm a member. I just

974
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 3: posted a little bit on there. I don't post here

975
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 3: as much as they used to, but in goes a

976
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 3: great resource. There's a ton of different forums and topics

977
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: you can select from, including the legislative legislating the Second Amendment,

978
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 3: which is one that I look at often and contribute

979
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 3: to on occasion, and as does Kelly. But but now

980
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 3: for him to come around and go after Ingo, I

981
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: mean the largest forum online for gun owners in Indiana

982
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 3: after he's formed Indiana Firearms Coalition. That doesn't seem to

983
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: be Does it seem to be a very productive enterprise

984
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 3: for him in my mind?

985
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 6: Kelly, Well, you know we were out in front in

986
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen identifying them as grifters and scam artists, so

987
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 6: that might be why he said we attacked them. But

988
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 6: if he would have hung around a little more, he

989
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 6: would see that sub forum you mentioned the legislation of

990
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 6: the Second Amendment, where I mean members here are very

991
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 6: active in this, not only legislation here in Indiana but

992
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 6: around the country well and ego members of the people

993
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 6: stepping up when there needs to be phone calls and

994
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 6: emails and even even old fashioned snail mail to our

995
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 6: representatives to let them know.

996
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 4: Where out here.

997
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: You bet, you bet well. Ingo does a great service.

998
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of the forum. It's like any online forum.

999
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: You can run into a knucklehead here or there, but

1000
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 3: for the most part it's really I think well done,

1001
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 3: well moderated, and very very useful for the Indiana Gun

1002
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 3: Owner tell you what, let's call it there, let's take

1003
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 3: a break, we come back. I'm gonna go more through

1004
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 3: some of the horrible attacks again on other organizations, on Ingo,

1005
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: the Indiana Gun Owners Forum, on other gun rights organizations.

1006
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: But and then, and what really kind of set me

1007
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 3: off and the reason I decided to talk about these

1008
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 3: grifters on the show tonight is they started taking credit

1009
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 3: for things that they had absolutely nothing to do with

1010
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 3: and a lot of which I was directly involved in.

1011
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 3: That sets me off. You set me off like that,

1012
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 3: I'm gonna call it, especially right here on the Gun

1013
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 3: Guy Show. And with that, let's take a break. This

1014
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 3: is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety

1015
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 3: three WIBC.

1016
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: He's a Second Amendment attorney, he's an NRA certified firearms instructor.

1017
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: He's the Gun Guy, Guy RALFORDYPC.

1018
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 3: And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

1019
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 3: Show in ninety three wibc's talking about the Indiana Firearms Coalition. Unfortunately,

1020
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 3: some grifters, scam artists among us, trying to get your

1021
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 3: contributions and in the process virtually nothing for gun owners.

1022
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 3: In Indiana and then try to take credit for the

1023
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 3: hard work and success of others, which is setting a

1024
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: lot of us off who are actually involved in the fight.

1025
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 3: And so it's time to call them out. And again

1026
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 3: there's a great thread on ingo Indiana gun Owners. It's

1027
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 3: Indiana gun Owners dot Com under legislating the Second Amendment,

1028
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 3: and it just lays it out. Even Kelly Navon, who

1029
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: just called even has timestamps on one post here that

1030
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 3: talks about the different topics these guys get into and

1031
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 3: how completely off base they are. But with that something

1032
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 3: that got me, so they said, okay, Well, in response

1033
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 3: to all the rhinos and the backstabbers, you know, expanding

1034
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 3: the red Flag law in twenty nineteen. Now, we dramatically

1035
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,439
Speaker 3: improved the red Flag Law in twenty nineteen in ways

1036
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 3: I went through. That's when we formed the Indiana Firearms Coalition.

1037
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 3: And boy, it's a good thing we did that. We

1038
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 3: formed it in twenty twenty one in reaction to what

1039
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 3: happened in twenty nineteen. And by the way, if you

1040
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 3: formed Indiana Firearms Coalition in twenty twenty one, that means

1041
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: you were formed during the fight for constitutional care. Probably

1042
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: the biggest and again, there are others out there. The

1043
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 3: rest of the preemption bill is you know, prevents local

1044
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 3: governments from regulating firearms, is huge, huge, huge huge. The

1045
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 3: self defense Immunity bill that I wrote and we passed

1046
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen is also big. But I don't have any

1047
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: problems saying constitutional carries the biggest pro two way achievement

1048
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 3: we've achieved here in Indiana, and it was a ten

1049
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 3: year fight to get it done, and I was involved

1050
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: all ten years. Well, if Indian a Firearms Coalition was

1051
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: formed at twenty twenty one, that means they were they

1052
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: were formed, They were supposedly fighting for two A rights

1053
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: in Indiana in twenty twenty one. Where were they in

1054
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two when we finally got it passed. For

1055
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 3: all the hearings, all the conversations in the hallway, all

1056
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 3: the strategy sessions, all the meetings with legislators, Where was

1057
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: Where was Aaron Dor? Where was Chris Dorr? Where were

1058
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 3: the other two door brothers? They weren't in the State House,

1059
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 3: I know because I was there. Never testified in the

1060
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 3: committee hearing ever. Once at one point they show a

1061
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 3: picture of somebody testifying in one of the committee rooms

1062
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: in Indiana, and Aaron Dorr goes, yeah, you know, some

1063
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 3: of these Midwest courthouses or state houses are not great.

1064
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 3: You know, look at this conference room. Yeah, it's in

1065
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 3: the basement. I've testified in that particular room dozens of times.

1066
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 3: And I'm going I've never seen you there. You're making

1067
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 3: it sound like you've been there.

1068
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1069
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 3: You may have stopped buying, taken a picture. You've never

1070
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 3: shown up for any significant event. Hey, you sure's hell

1071
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 3: weren't involved in the fight for constitutional carry when we

1072
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 3: finally got it passed in twenty twenty two. I'm sure

1073
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: you want to take credit for it. But then in

1074
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 3: the video they go on to say, boy, sure is

1075
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 3: a good thing that we're around here in Indiana, because

1076
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three, they attempted to expand the red

1077
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: flag law again, and we snuffed it out. We stepped

1078
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: up and headed it off, and we got our email

1079
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 3: campaign out, and we sent text messages to legislators and

1080
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 3: we got involved, and we snuffed out another attempt to

1081
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 3: expand the red flag law on twenty twenty three. Well

1082
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 3: what are we talking about. Yeah, there was a horrible

1083
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 3: attempt to expand the red Flag Law on twenty twenty three,

1084
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 3: and what it was, it was a bill. The worst

1085
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 3: thing were several bad things about it, but the worst

1086
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 3: thing about it it would have made you a prohibited

1087
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 3: possessor immediately upon a judge finding probable cause to believe

1088
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 3: that you're dangerous, or a judge issuing a warrant based

1089
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 3: on probable cause to seize fire arms from you based

1090
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 3: on probable cause that you're dangerous. Now, at this point,

1091
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 3: you've had no due process other than the judge reviewing

1092
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: and essentially an application. It's an affid David about establishing

1093
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 3: probable costs, but you haven't had your own day in

1094
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 3: court yet. And in that sense, to make you a

1095
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 3: prohibited possessor, you've lost your Second Amendment rights. You cannot

1096
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 3: go into a gun store and buy a gun. You're

1097
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 3: a prohibitive possessor, just like a felon when you haven't

1098
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 3: had a court hearing yet. And we said, oh, hell no.

1099
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 3: But the prosecutor's office and several police departments around the

1100
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 3: country we're saying, oh, we need this because you know,

1101
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 3: these people still have access to guns before they have

1102
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 3: their hearing, and these things can stretch out for a

1103
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 3: while if they ask for more time before they're hearing,

1104
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 3: and we're worried, you know, they're going to go out

1105
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 3: and commit crimes or hurt people in the process in

1106
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 3: the interim, So we need him declared prohibited possessors and

1107
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 3: make it illegal for them to have a gun before

1108
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 3: their day in court where they get to come in

1109
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 3: and present their own evidence and have a lawyer represent

1110
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 3: them and have all the other elements to do process.

1111
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 3: And that was a bill filed in the Senate and

1112
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 3: it was assigned to Aaron Freeman's committee. Senator Aaron Freeman,

1113
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 3: chairman of the Courts and Criminal Code Committee in the Senate.

1114
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 3: And Aaron listen, Aaron, I always give him credit. In

1115
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two during constitutional carry, I think he saved

1116
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: us on constitutional carry in the Senate and he was

1117
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 3: just a rock stars and I always get will and

1118
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 3: give him credit for that. And he's been very solid

1119
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 3: on two A issues in the past. But Aaron was

1120
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 3: and Aaron you know, has a lot of former connections

1121
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 3: to law enforcement himself, and it's always considered very pro

1122
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 3: law enforcement in addition to being pro two way, and yes,

1123
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 3: you can be both. I put myself in the same category,

1124
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 3: but he's getting pressure from the Prosecutors Association and police

1125
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 3: departments to say, yeah, we ought to make people prohibited

1126
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 3: possessors before the hearing, but oh, by the way, when

1127
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 3: they get their hearing, and if they're not shown to

1128
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 3: be dangerous at that point, then okay, then that prohibition

1129
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 3: gets lifted. And we actually had a meeting and it

1130
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 3: was Senator Chairman Aaron Freeman and me and three members

1131
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 3: of the Indiana Prosecutors Association who were pushing for the bill,

1132
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 3: and I was there on the pro two A side,

1133
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 3: and the prosecutors were pushing the bill, and we had

1134
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 3: a discussion and I talked about how I would never,

1135
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 3: could never support a bill that would make people a

1136
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 3: prohibited possessor before they ever had their day in court

1137
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 3: to present their own evidence. And I talked about all

1138
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 3: the cases I've won. They said, well, you got to

1139
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 3: understand these people are going to lose eventually. I mean,

1140
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 3: there's a reason the judge found probable cause. And I'd

1141
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 3: say I'm batting about eight eighty on winning these things

1142
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 3: in terms of I win most of them. And that's

1143
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 3: not because I'm a great lawyer. It's because I take

1144
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 3: cases I believe we should win and a person's not dangerous,

1145
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 3: and I said, we're gonna make those people prohibit a

1146
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 3: possessor before their day in court. Hell no, that's and

1147
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 3: to me, I will litigate that. I will take that

1148
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 3: up and I will I will win that on due

1149
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 3: process crowns in the Court of Appeals of the Indiana

1150
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 3: Supreme Court or the US Supreme Court. I will litigate

1151
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 3: this issue, and I believe I will win it. And

1152
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 3: I wasn't disrespectful to anybody, and the prosecutors were all

1153
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 3: very respectful as well, and we had a nice professional conversation.

1154
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 3: But the end of the day, Senator Freeman said, I

1155
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:42,919
Speaker 3: don't believe this bill should move forward in its current

1156
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 3: form for the reasons that we've discussed here, meaning the

1157
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: reasons I discussed there. And so that bill died in committee,

1158
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 3: didn't get a hearing. And in this video the door

1159
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 3: brothers after knowing that history myself, I mean, having known

1160
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 3: about that meeting and and and how Senator Aaron Freeman

1161
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 3: killed it because of the right reasons, because he's a

1162
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 3: solid senator and I think a great representative of Indiana

1163
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 3: citizens in the Indiana and General Assembly. He made the

1164
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 3: right decision. And yes, I had a lot of input

1165
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 3: on that point, and I think I was persuasive in

1166
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 3: the process. But the Door Brothers said, yeah, we launched

1167
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 3: our campaign because we had stepped in and gotten involved

1168
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 3: in Indiana. And boy, it's a good thing we did,

1169
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,959
Speaker 3: because we snuffed out this bill in twenty twenty three,

1170
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 3: and they took all the credit. I never heard from

1171
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 3: these people, I never saw them. I never talked to

1172
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 3: any legislators that had ever heard from them. They did

1173
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 3: nothing to achieve that result in twenty twenty three, and

1174
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 3: that they took all the credit. Not okay with that,

1175
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,919
Speaker 3: but get this and we'll wrap up when we come

1176
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: back on this point again. A short segment the bill

1177
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 3: I wrote last year to where if people are found

1178
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 3: to not be dangerous or no longer be dangerous, and

1179
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 3: they can now spunge that off their public record so

1180
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 3: they don't lose jobs lose relationships. I wrote that I

1181
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 3: fought for it in the General Assembly. Ben Smaaltz introduced it.

1182
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 3: Guess who to credit for that bill as well? Yeah,

1183
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 3: you guessed it. The slime balls at Indiana Firearms Coalition.

1184
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 3: Right now, we're taking a break. This is guy Ralford

1185
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC, Second.

1186
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: To none on this second amendment. This is the Gun

1187
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

1188
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 3: So this legislative session, I realized and there's something I'd

1189
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 3: been talking to legislators about before. In fact, I had

1190
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 3: a bill I wanted to get introduced last year in

1191
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. Didn't get that done until this year.

1192
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 3: But it was a bill that addressed another huge problem

1193
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 3: with red flag, which is that if someone accuses you

1194
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 3: of being dangerous and authorities begin a person against you,

1195
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 3: even if you win, that stays on your criminal history.

1196
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 3: It's not even a criminal proceeding. It's a civil proceeding.

1197
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 3: But just like traffic tickets and whatnot, you go to

1198
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 3: my case, for instance, I use a separate system called

1199
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 3: dockspop that a lot of lawyers use, but I use

1200
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 3: the lawyer's version of my case as well, and you

1201
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 3: can you can sign on there, just the publicly accessible

1202
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 3: version of the site and put in somebody's name and

1203
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,759
Speaker 3: come up with their whole background. You can see civil

1204
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 3: cases filed against them, you can see criminal cases, but

1205
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 3: you'd also see red flat cases and in a criminal case.

1206
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 3: If you're found not guilty or a case is dismissed,

1207
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 3: that is immediately expunged. Even if you're found guilty, you

1208
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 3: can go back for a lot of crimes, not all.

1209
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 3: This is what I talk about when I'm plugging expungements.

1210
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 3: You can go back and expunge criminal conviction for a

1211
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 3: lot of convictions. But because a red flag proceeding was

1212
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 3: civil and not criminal, there was no way to expunge

1213
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 3: that off your record. So people were being found to

1214
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 3: be not dangerous, but then going and applying for a

1215
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 3: job and they run it and they go, well, wow,

1216
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 3: what's this red flagcase where you had gun sees from you?

1217
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 3: We don't think we want you working for this company.

1218
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 3: And it was costing people relationships and volunteer opportunities. Had

1219
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 3: lady who wasn't allowed to teach her to coach her

1220
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 3: daughter's softball team, said well, you know, we see you

1221
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 3: had this red flat case. Yeah, but I won. Well,

1222
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 3: we're not comfortable with that. And so last year I

1223
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 3: wrote a bill because I saw the need in my

1224
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 3: cases with my clients, so we ought to be able

1225
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 3: to clean this off people's records that shouldn't influence them

1226
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 3: after they win. So I wrote that bill and Ben

1227
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 3: s Maltz was the author in the House, sailed through

1228
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: committee unanimously. Get this. It passed unanimously on the floor

1229
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 3: of the House, went over to the Senate, passed unanimously committee.

1230
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 3: Out of that, I testified both places and then passed

1231
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 3: unanimously on the floor of the Senate. There you go,

1232
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 3: we win. It passes now the law Guess who took

1233
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 3: credit for that in their video the Door Brothers. They said,

1234
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:20,599
Speaker 3: because the legislators were so afraid of them, they felt

1235
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 3: the need to do something on red Flag, had to

1236
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 3: appease them and passed my expungement statue. That's the scumbag

1237
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 3: these people are. That's this week's show. Hope you enjoyed it.

1238
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 3: Come back next week, and I always remember, be safe

1239
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 3: and shoot straight.