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Speaker 1: Okay, busy day for Stephen Holder as well. He joins

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Speaker 1: us now on the Java House Peel and Port guest line.

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Speaker 1: Coffee Steven, let's get right to this. Is Philip Rivers

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Speaker 1: going to start for the Colts on Sunday?

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Speaker 3: Well, first off, I both need some coffee, it sounds like,

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Speaker 3: so that's a great idea. Number one. Number two will

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Speaker 3: he start this weekend? I think the answer is TVD

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Speaker 3: And that's an honest answer, both from me and the Colts.

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Speaker 3: I think because there is still some potential for Riley

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Speaker 3: Leonard to get back out there. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: his status is. It's been described as week to week,

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Speaker 3: but you know, this is certainly a desperate situation. Maybe

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Speaker 3: he tries to push it. I don't know, and I

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Speaker 3: don't know that the Colts know. I was told that

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Speaker 3: we will know more within maybe the next twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: So we wait and we let that play out. But

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Speaker 3: I think the Colts going out and looking at other

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Speaker 3: options tells you a lot about the situation, right. It

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Speaker 3: tells you that they are at least somewhat doubtful about

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Speaker 3: Rally Leonard playing, or at least concerned maybe is the

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Speaker 3: better word. If they If they thought this was something

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Speaker 3: he could push through, we wouldn't be here. So I

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Speaker 3: think we'll have to wait and see. But the odds

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Speaker 3: are I would say it's not off the table, certainly. Okay,

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Speaker 3: what is the motivation here for the Colts or for

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Speaker 3: Philip Rivers both? That's fair. Well, the Colts, the motivation

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Speaker 3: is we're desperate. They are trying to make the playoffs.

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Speaker 3: I think the alternative is for them, right, is okay

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Speaker 3: we sit here and we just let this, you know,

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Speaker 3: slip away. Whether we think they have a legitimate shot

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Speaker 3: is not the question, right, It's about how you react

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Speaker 3: to this desperate situation. If you just sit here and say,

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Speaker 3: all right, well, we'll just find whoever's out there on

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Speaker 3: the couch. I guess they did that with Philip Rivers.

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Speaker 3: But whatever, you know, a more predictable guy on the

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Speaker 3: couch who really gives you no shot you're not really trying,

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Speaker 3: I guess is what they might might presume there this.

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Speaker 3: While I don't know if it's going to work, I

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Speaker 3: cannot even begin to speculate if it will work, but

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Speaker 3: they believe it gives them a fighting chance. And I

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Speaker 3: think this really boils down to he can function quickly

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Speaker 3: and make quick decisions and deliver the football. He's throwing

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Speaker 3: the ball fine from what I'm hearing. Is he in

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Speaker 3: football shape? Not? Really? Is he? Is he up for

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Speaker 3: taking the punishment? I don't know about that, but certainly

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Speaker 3: he can come in. Anyone else you get off the

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Speaker 3: street isn't going to know the offense and have the

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Speaker 3: history with Shane Stikeen that Philip Rivers has, which is

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Speaker 3: six years of working with him, that is substantial. He

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Speaker 3: can come in and he can operate and that won't

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Speaker 3: be a problem, and that is like half the battle

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Speaker 3: for a quarterback you sign off the street for what's

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Speaker 3: the motivation for Philip Rivers? That's a tougher question. Frankly,

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Speaker 3: I gotta think a lot of this is I'm doing

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Speaker 3: what I can to help my friend, and that is

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Speaker 3: Shane Stikeen. You guys, I don't think people understand they

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Speaker 3: are very close like they are. He's there, he is

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Speaker 3: one of them, by the way.

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Speaker 1: Just not to cut you up there, Steven, I apologize,

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Speaker 1: but for those listening because it's an easy thing to

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Speaker 1: get confused by. When Philip Rivers was here, before he

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Speaker 1: had Frank Reich, he did not have Shane Stykeen. He

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Speaker 1: worked with Shane Stikeen with the Chargers. Correct, Yes, that

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Speaker 1: is correct.

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Speaker 3: So Shane Stikeen's formative years in the NFL were basically

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Speaker 3: all spent with the Chargers. He went there as kind

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Speaker 3: of a glorified intern, I believe in twenty thirteen, and

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Speaker 3: he spent six seasons there with Rivers. And when he left,

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Speaker 3: when Rivers left, I should say, or his final season,

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Speaker 3: I believe it was Shane's first season as offensive coordinator.

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Speaker 3: So he worked very closely with him, including as I believe,

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Speaker 3: quarterbacks coach and receivers coach for a while. So they

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Speaker 3: have a lot of history. They're going to know how

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Speaker 3: each other think, how each other operates. Stiken references Philip

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Speaker 3: rivers like all the time, like all the time, you know.

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Speaker 3: So there's a synergy there. So I guess that's a

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Speaker 3: big part of it. Again, he's helping his friend out,

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Speaker 3: and I guess he's willing to put his body on

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Speaker 3: the line for it a good friend. I guess.

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Speaker 1: The The reality is this, Steven, the Colts are let's

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Speaker 1: go to say it this way. Stephenholder, my guest at

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Speaker 1: ESPN dot com, In your opinion, the Colts are how

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Speaker 1: many wins from securing a playoff spot?

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Speaker 3: Well, securing is a tricky word. I think they believe

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Speaker 3: two wins gives them a shot, like a legit shot.

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Speaker 3: But I think at that point you're hoping. You're probably

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Speaker 3: left hoping that a couple of other teams do you

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Speaker 3: some favors to really control your destiny the way things

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Speaker 3: are going, Like the Chargers winning last night doesn't help.

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Speaker 3: That gets them, I think, to nine wins and they're

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Speaker 3: in the wild card. So I really think if the

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Speaker 3: nine win teams split the rest of their games, right,

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Speaker 3: that gets them to eleven. So you're fighting for that

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Speaker 3: last spot. Are you going to get it with ten wins?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not sure this move.

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Speaker 1: I'm asking this, not rhetorically but legitimately asking Okay, yeh,

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Speaker 1: does Chris Ballard make this move if he is one

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Speaker 1: confident and convinced that he is back next year regardless

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Speaker 1: of the outcome of this one.

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Speaker 3: I mean maybe? And here's why, because now, well, I

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Speaker 3: will grant you that that is probably some extra sauce here. Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's be honest, no one's job, whether it's Chris Ballard

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Speaker 3: or you know, or whoever's starting at you know, at

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Speaker 3: position X, no one's job is really safe ever in

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Speaker 3: the NFL. So you're always straining and striving, you know,

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Speaker 3: to get every morsel you can. So that's the nature

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Speaker 3: of the NFL. So but I do think certainly you

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Speaker 3: could you could make the argument, I don't know, look

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Speaker 3: where we're speculating. We can make the argument that their

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Speaker 3: jobs were on the line a year ago and this

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Speaker 3: has taken a turn for the worst. You can't lose

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Speaker 3: all of your second half games and expect to have

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Speaker 3: not have to answer for that, right, So I think

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Speaker 3: that there has to be at least some thought to, look,

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Speaker 3: we got to do what we gotta do, and then

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Speaker 3: you also owe it to your players. That's the other

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Speaker 3: part of this. You owe it to your players to

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Speaker 3: do everything you can and to do what you think

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Speaker 3: is best. And that is what they're doing here, right

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Speaker 3: or wrong, better or worse. I think that's a big.

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Speaker 1: Part of it, you know the Okay, let me ask

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Speaker 1: you the other side of that, Steven, do you believe

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Speaker 1: And I know I'm probably it's gonna sound like I'm

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Speaker 1: grasping its straws Okay, Well, which is what I do?

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Speaker 2: You mentioned extra sauce.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if they had not made the trade for Sauce

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Speaker 1: Gardner and they knew that they still had a first

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Speaker 1: round pick, and they knew that they had a quarterback

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Speaker 1: that they drafted a handful of years ago that they

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Speaker 1: still don't know who he is, and they have another

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Speaker 1: quarterback that look like he was going to eat perhaps

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Speaker 1: the guy. Fortunately, I hate to say it that way,

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Speaker 1: they had not re signed or they had not signed

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Speaker 1: him to a long term.

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Speaker 2: Deal before this injury. We don't know his status for

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Speaker 2: next year.

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Speaker 1: If they were in play looking at it saying if

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Speaker 1: we make or if we miss the playoffs, at least

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Speaker 1: we have a first round pick to fall back on

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Speaker 1: to bolster ourselves or put ourselves back in position.

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Speaker 2: Does that now become meaningless?

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Speaker 1: So you may as well push all in because you

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Speaker 1: already sent your next two years first round picks elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would say the only thing I'd say that

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Speaker 3: that is something that's considered now. The only thing I'd

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Speaker 3: say is that they're already at eight wins. They are

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Speaker 3: not going to have They were never going to have

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Speaker 3: some sort of top ten pick, even if they have

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Speaker 3: their first round pick. So that's the only thing that's

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Speaker 3: sort of a disincentive if you're picking in the middle.

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Speaker 3: I always feel like, if you're picking fifteenth, you might

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Speaker 3: as well pick like twenty seconds, right, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying. And it's kind of like flavors at that point.

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Speaker 3: The real, the real difference makers, at least the obvious

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Speaker 3: difference makers, the ones that we can tell like halfway

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Speaker 3: through their senior season. Those are the guys that go

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Speaker 3: in like the top five or ten. So anyhow, I

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Speaker 3: guess I would say I don't think it factored that

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Speaker 3: much because I don't think it's going to impact their

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Speaker 3: draft pick that much. The well they're they're they're figurative

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Speaker 3: draft pick.

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Speaker 1: Had they had right I mean that, Steven, it's just

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Speaker 1: so easy to forget that they don't have a first

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Speaker 1: round pick the next two years.

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Speaker 2: But let's get to that situation before we let you

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Speaker 2: go here.

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Speaker 1: Philip Rivers is by the way, if you're just joining

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Speaker 1: us on the program, Philip Rivers signed to the practice squad,

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Speaker 1: who was on the Did they have to make room

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Speaker 1: on the practice squad for him? Or was Bred licked

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Speaker 1: it up and that created the spot?

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Speaker 3: That is a good question. Those machinations, I think are

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Speaker 3: still being worked out because we haven't gotten like official

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Speaker 3: notification of the signing, so that sort of other transaction,

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Speaker 3: corresponding transaction. I guess that usually happens when the actual

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Speaker 3: signing happens, and that hasn't happened yet that I'm aware of,

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Speaker 3: So we will see.

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Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't it feel like Philip Rivers ain't coming

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Speaker 1: here on a practice squad unless he knows he's gonna play.

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Speaker 3: I mean, well, I think there's certainly a good chance

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Speaker 3: of him playing, right. I mean, he didn't come here

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Speaker 3: to be to hold Rally Leonard's hand. He is right correct, right?

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Speaker 3: I think that's fair. I do think that's fair. I

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Speaker 3: do think I do know, I should say that, like

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Speaker 3: Riley Leonard's not ruled out. So in the perfect world,

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Speaker 3: right Leonard plays on Sunday as as as much as

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Speaker 3: we might think Riley Leonard against the Seahawks, come on,

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Speaker 3: I mean, Philip Rivers forty four years old, five years

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Speaker 3: retired against the Seahawks, come on, right, Like they're both ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: But I do think Riley at least gives you a

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Speaker 3: chance because he's been he's been doing this right, he's

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Speaker 3: been doing it all along. And he may not have

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Speaker 3: the institutional knowledge of Philip Rivers, but but certainly he has,

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Speaker 3: you know, twenty three year old legs, and that gives

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Speaker 3: you something to work with. But by the way, you

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Speaker 3: may already know this, but like a subplot to all

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Speaker 3: of this is that Riley Leonard and Philip Rivers are

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Speaker 3: very close.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know that, but like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he tutored him along with Drake may up into the

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Speaker 1: draft process, correct, Yeah, And Rally is.

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Speaker 3: Actually from Alabama, not far from where Philip lives down

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Speaker 3: on the coast. So yeah, just kind of a just.

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Speaker 1: Is that So do you believe that that is that

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Speaker 1: coincidence or is that uh direct tie coincidence.

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Speaker 3: I do think where there is a possible tie is

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Speaker 3: the fact that they drafted Riley Leonard, because you and

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Speaker 3: I can can easily draw the dots there, right like

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Speaker 3: certainly Saint Stych and Chris Ballard. They certainly connected with

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Speaker 3: Philip Rivers for drafting Riley Leonard because of course they did.

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Speaker 3: And so those those conversations and impressions I am sure

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Speaker 3: informed their opinions of Riley Leonard before drafting him. So

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Speaker 3: that's where I think there's a connection.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Steven, let's get to a health standpoint before we

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Speaker 1: let you go here. First off, we'll begin with Sauce

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Speaker 1: Gardner and where things stand there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that we see him this week,

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Speaker 3: but the goal is to have him back in the

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Speaker 3: next few weeks, so I think I think next week

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Speaker 3: is probably where we have we start having a realistic

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Speaker 3: conversation about that, So we will see. But they could

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Speaker 3: really use him in light of what's going on with

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Speaker 3: Mooney Ward. Okay, that's the other one. Mooney Ward.

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Speaker 1: I have serious concerns about this, and I don't mean

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Speaker 1: Steven from a football standpoint. I'm talking about anytime that

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Speaker 1: you have a player who psychologically has had some of

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Speaker 1: the you know, the emotional challenges that he's had, understandably

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Speaker 1: justifiably so with personal loss year ago. But then not one,

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Speaker 1: not two, now, but three concussion protocol visits in the

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Speaker 1: course of a regular season.

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Speaker 2: You gotta start thinking about it, don't you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, one hundred percent. I think every possible outcome is

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Speaker 3: on the table with Mooney Ward, and you know they

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Speaker 3: haven't really not not to minimize this, right, we're talking

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Speaker 3: about a young man's his his his brain. Frankly, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about his brain and his future as a father

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Speaker 3: and what have you. So I would say, however, a

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Speaker 3: related note is that they have not really had any

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Speaker 3: luck at all with their big dollar signings. I mean,

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Speaker 3: their three most I think highest staid players on defense

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Speaker 3: are all hurt at the same time, Sauce Gardner, Mooney Ward,

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Speaker 3: and the Forest Buckner. So I mean, just an unfortunate

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Speaker 3: series of events. But now they have the football gods

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Speaker 3: clearly hate them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay to Forest Buckner, where do things stand there?

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Speaker 3: Close? I think this week is probably pushing it, but

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Speaker 3: I bet he comes back for the forty nine ers

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Speaker 3: game next week. That that's kind of where my sense

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Speaker 3: is right now. But but this week hasn't been ruled

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Speaker 3: out either, so we will see. He's he is definitely close.

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Speaker 3: The lesson I take from the Forrest Buckners that stem

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Speaker 3: cells real, you've done it twice now and has recovered

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Speaker 3: when you know he could have had a season ending injury.

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Speaker 1: From a you know you were talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: Moody Ward concussion protocol. I know Alec Pierce was one

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Speaker 1: that we thought might go into that that would that

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Speaker 1: turned out to not be the case. But I'm curious

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Speaker 1: if this Stephen may be conversation for a later time,

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Speaker 1: but does the quarterback uncertainty for next year factor in

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Speaker 1: to Alec Pearce and his desire to re sign here

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Speaker 1: as opposed to going into free agency across the board.

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Speaker 3: It would for me, I mean, let's be honest, right,

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Speaker 3: who's your quarterback next year? Alex? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's where I think it matters on both sides, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: if you're the Colts and you you aren't sure what

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Speaker 3: you're working with next year, are you also as motivated

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Speaker 3: to pay what it's going to take to keep Alec Pierce?

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Speaker 3: Because I know they were they had come around to

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Speaker 3: that when they thought he'd be paired with Daniel Jones.

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Speaker 3: That is not likely to be the case now, regardless

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Speaker 3: of how optimistic a fan you are, I'm telling you

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Speaker 3: right now, Daniel Jones is not going to be the

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Speaker 3: starting quarterback at the start of next season. That seems

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Speaker 3: extremely unlikely. Right.

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Speaker 2: So do you think he'll be under contract at the

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Speaker 2: start of the next season.

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Speaker 3: Oh? Man, that is a tougher question. I think I

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Speaker 3: think the odds are decent, but it will take a

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Speaker 3: different form. It has to write. I meant, you can't

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Speaker 3: give him some sort of franchise quarterback contract when he's

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Speaker 3: not going to play, perhaps for the first year. I

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Speaker 3: don't know how you handle it. I really don't. It's

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Speaker 3: gonna cost him money, It's going to cost the Colts

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Speaker 3: in terms of certainty, you know what they're signing up for.

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Speaker 3: It's just a completely imperfect situation. The alternative, and you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe this doesn't, you know, get people excited. The alternative

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Speaker 3: is go all in on Anthony Richardson. Maybe you trim

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Speaker 3: the roster a little bit, trim some fat from the roster,

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Speaker 3: pair things down, give Anthony Richardson a shot. See what

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Speaker 3: happens there. Even if you move on from him, at

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Speaker 3: least he benefits by getting to show himself for a

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Speaker 3: free agency, and then you regroup in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, we're so far off from that, I

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Speaker 3: can't even begin to think about it. But those are

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Speaker 3: some of the Those are some of the actual scenarios

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Speaker 3: that are going to be in play. Okay, lastly, Stephen,

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Speaker 3: be honest. Okay, I want you to roll up your

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Speaker 3: sleep and put truth to him in your vein. You ready,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: Did your alma mater, Miami deserve to get in above

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Speaker 2: notre name?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Now here's the deal. I think their losses were

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Speaker 3: very comparable. There were so if you and you can

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Speaker 3: disagree with that. But if you if you, if you

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Speaker 3: agree with that, well then and then you look at

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Speaker 3: heads ahead? Then what are we talking about? Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, the fact that Miami somehow mysteriously bolted them when

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Speaker 1: both of them were idle, Right, isn't that what happened?

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Speaker 3: Well? Sure, but then I think I think the bigger

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Speaker 3: question is why why was there the separation to begin with?

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Speaker 3: I think it is the bigger question, right, And I

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Speaker 3: think that that's the thing that the committee has to

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Speaker 3: do a better job of explaining because they still haven't right.

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Speaker 3: So it's like the head to head didn't matter until

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Speaker 3: it did. So I don't know the process is flawed.

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Speaker 3: I do agree with some of the takes I've heard

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Speaker 3: about the having the two is a group of five

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Speaker 3: teams in there. I think that maybe should be looked

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Speaker 3: at because I mean, let's let's be honest. Congrats to

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Speaker 3: James Madison. I don't know, man, you know, I just

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Speaker 3: don't know. I think they lost.

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Speaker 2: Who did Miami lose? Who were Miami's losses?

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Speaker 3: Louisville and s m U come on both of them, which.

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Speaker 1: That's not that's not comparable. And I realized one of them.

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Speaker 1: The irony here and the thing that makes it murky

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Speaker 1: is one of Notre Dame's losses is to Miami. But

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Speaker 1: Miami in Texas A and m in the first two weeks,

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Speaker 1: both on the road, are less egregious than.

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Speaker 2: I mean, those those aren't.

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Speaker 1: SMU and Louisville aren't terrible, but they're not great losses.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, I would say I think it's

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Speaker 3: after that. The the the number of ranked opponents at

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Speaker 3: the time that they played them. I believe Miami had

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Speaker 3: had the edge there. So like there's always there's always

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Speaker 3: arguments that you can counter with, and you know, you

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Speaker 3: can do it all day long.

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Speaker 2: Right now, Miami plays who in the In the playoffs.

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Speaker 3: They played text A and m so there go. So

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Speaker 3: it's a tough one in Miami. I will say Miami

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Speaker 3: has their offense has has really found it stride, which

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Speaker 3: I think is a product of Mario crystal Ball shutting

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Speaker 3: the hell up and letting his coordinator coach. But that's

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Speaker 3: another story.

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Speaker 2: What's the name of that what's the name of the stork?

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Speaker 1: The that's he's but that's his name, the Ibis bird,

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Speaker 1: And that's because that's the bird that is always the

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Speaker 1: last one to leave when a hurricane arrives, in the

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Speaker 1: first one to come back.

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Speaker 3: Right, legend has it, But you know I don't. I

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Speaker 3: don't tend to stick around to find out that's yeah,

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Speaker 3: if the Ipis.

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Speaker 1: Has just figured out because he's like, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: put that in the pr release and nobody knows the difference.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's sticking around and tell the truth.

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Speaker 3: Or not right right right? You know, do a little

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Speaker 3: bird watching the hurricane and I noticed the stuck around,

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Speaker 3: Like who discovered that? Like what idiot the IBIS did?

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Speaker 1: The IBIS hit a press release because he was on.

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Speaker 3: Top of it.

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Speaker 1: He was at the forefront. It was like me, It

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Speaker 1: was like me trademarking. Why not Indiana? You gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta think of it.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

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Speaker 2: One radom and no abuilt the arc. You know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 3: You gotta know what you're doing. All right. Some professor

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Speaker 3: from the the Arts and Sciences school, you know, and

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Speaker 3: went out and did a research project in middle of hurricane.

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Speaker 2: Apparently the one guy sticking around.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: They found his paperwork after the fact, but not the guy.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Steven appreciate the time as always. I know you're busy,

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Speaker 1: and we'll let you get back to work at ESPN

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Speaker 1: dot com. All right, I'll see you soon.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Holder joining us Java House peeling for guest line