1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Listening to the Hammer and Nigel Show. Yeah, really excited 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: for this this next interview, my name is Nigel. Jason 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Hammer is here. We'll go straight to the hotline and 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: bring on a former NASA test director, Mike Cinelli, who 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: is going to talk about Artemis two facing its most 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: dangerous task yet safely touching down to Earth. Mike, thank 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: you for coming on the Hammer Nigel Show. Maybe talk 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: a little bit about your background as a NASA test 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: director before we continue with Artemis two and what kind 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: of dangers they're facing when they laying back on Earth tomorrow. 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, well, thank you so much for spending time with 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: you this afternoon. Well before this, I spent thirty years 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: at NASA and primarily as a NASA test director. So 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: basically it's in the operations stage. You get the vehicles 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: ready to go as you get this opportunity to launch, 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: do a launch contown. So we're part of the launch 17 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: team that commits the astronauts the flight, does launch contown 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: and sends them on a ride. 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: So it's been quite a journey. 20 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, absolutely. And then you were also part of 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: the recovery efforts following the Space Shuttle Columbia tragedy. Just 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: maybe talk a little bit about that and compare that 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: and the advancements that have been made in terms of 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: what Artemis is facing upon re entry tomorrow. 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely, well, thank you. 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: You know. One of the things, it's a great job 27 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: and it's a lot of fun to launch rockets, but 28 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: there's so much responsibility and you said it perfectly. You know, 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of things 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: can go wrong, and in Columbia's case, you know, we 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: tell the families, we tell the crew, we're going to 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: get you back home in a couple of weeks, and 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 2: I can tell you when that doesn't happen, it's not 34 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: a good moment. So we didn't get the crew home, 35 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: we didn't get Columbia home, and that we became very 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: dedicated after saying, you know, we're going to do everything 37 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: we can to learn the lessons of our mistakes, be 38 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: very transparent what went wrong, and with the good things 39 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: as well. And so that's our mission now is to 40 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: go out there and share this with the world and 41 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: tell everyone, you know, here's how you can learn from 42 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: NASA's mistakes, here's how you can learn the good things. 43 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: That NASA has done. 44 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: Incorporate those in your lives and hopefully be more safe 45 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: and successful. So it's like walking a high you know, 46 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 2: a high wire act. It's a lot of excitement, a 47 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: lot of fun, but also it doesn't take much to 48 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: have a bad day. 49 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: Mike, can you kind of reset Artemis two why it's important, 50 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: What is happening exactly and the things they did differently 51 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: back in the sixties it's compared to now and what 52 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: exactly happened with Artemis two and what are we looking 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: forward to tomorrow? 54 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well, you know, in the nineteen sixties we 55 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: were in a space race with the Russians, right, we're 56 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: in a space race or the Soviet Union to be 57 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: first on the moon. So we accomplished that nineteen sixty 58 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: nine with Neil Armstrong and so now we're over fifty 59 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: years later looking back at our next steps after the 60 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: Space Shuttle program, So we want to go back to 61 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: the moon. So Artemis two is part of the campaign 62 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: to get there. So Artami is one with a flight 63 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: to test the capsule out without a crew. Now Artemis 64 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: two has a crew on board, so we're testing it out. 65 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: What it's like to have people on board checking out 66 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: the systems, checking out the software and all that. So 67 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: it's really a sounding check of the ground systems and 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: the vehicle, and then that sets us up for the future, 69 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: which is pretty exciting. So the next flights, we're going 70 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: to do some more testing in Earth orbit. We're going 71 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: to test the landers we're going to use, and then 72 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 2: we're going to learn everything we did on Artemiss two, 73 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: Artemists three and one put that all together, and then 74 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: Artemis four were actually go back to the Moon and 75 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: put boots on the Moon. 76 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: So put people back on the. 77 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: Moon with the emphasis of hopefully it's starting to build 78 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: a moon base. So the difference really effected is you know, 79 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: you know, pollow is to. 80 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 3: Prove we could do it. 81 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: We'd stay for maybe one, two or three days, but 82 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: now the objective is that go back to the Moon, 83 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: but stay permanently, build a moon base and have folks 84 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: spend not only days, but weeks and months on the 85 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: lunar surface. 86 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: We're speaking with Mike Chianelli. He is a former NASA 87 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 4: test director. We're talking about Artemis two, scheduled for splash 88 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: down here tomorrow back on Earth. So Mike walk me 89 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 4: through what we're going to see tomorrow. What has to 90 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 4: happen for a perfect landing tomorrow. 91 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: There's a lot of moving parts, right, So think of this. 92 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: We just went to the moon quarter million miles to 93 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: the moon. We actually get a slingshot around the moon, 94 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: a really close slingshot gave us energy coming back. So 95 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: we're now we're on the trajectory back towards Earth. So 96 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: those folks are heading about twenty five thousand miles per hour. 97 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: So think of this a caps about the size of 98 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: a minivan. We're heading back twenty five thousand miles per hour, 99 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: and we've got to hit the exact right spot of 100 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: the atmosphere coming back in because you're coming in. If 101 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: you come in way too shallow, you actually skip off 102 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: like a skipping stone out a pond. You don't want 103 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: to do that because then you're not going to come home. 104 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: If you come into steep and too sharp, it's going 105 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: to overload the vehicle with heat and thermal stresses. So 106 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: what you want to do is you want to hit 107 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: it just perfect, git the orientation back in, hit the 108 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: atmosphere at the right spot, and even doing so, we're 109 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: coming back in and you're going to heat the vehicle on 110 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: the outside. 111 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 3: About five thousand degrees right. 112 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: To think about that, the surface of the Sun is 113 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: about ten thousand, so we're almost hitting half the temperature 114 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: of the surface of the Sun getting back, and so 115 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: that's why you got to come back at the right angle, 116 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: really precise, so you're not overloaded the vehicle with those stresses, 117 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: get those folks through the atmosphere, slammed aga into the 118 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: air from return, and then splash them down just off 119 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: the coast of San Diego. And we're going to do 120 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: it all, hopefully perfectly by the minute, touching down at 121 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: eight o seven tomorrow evening Eastern time. 122 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 4: And what's the role of those on board the capsule 123 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 4: right now? Is it just pretty much all in the 124 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 4: hands of mission control at this point, or do the 125 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 4: folks that are on board right now that, like you said, 126 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 4: are going twenty five thousand miles an hour, you know, 127 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 4: seven miles a second heading back into Earth, do they 128 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 4: have responsibilities? 129 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 3: They certainly do. 130 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: So, there's a lot of systems on board, there's a 131 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: lot of interfaces. Most of the entry they won't be 132 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: flying it manually. They did do some checkouts and they 133 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: do test some of the maneuvers on the way back, 134 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: and this is also a shakedown cruise for the vehicle. 135 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: It's a brand new vehicle, so they're testing out the 136 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: systems to making sure everything is right and they're learning 137 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: how it operates in space. But really when it comes 138 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: back to that re entry itself, it's going to be 139 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: run by the computers. As you mentioned so well seven 140 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: you know, some mile a second, it's moving so fast, 141 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: the computers will take over. It'll keep the orientation fly in. 142 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: The jets would be firing and keeping it positioned correctly, 143 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: but they're gonna be watching everything, so they're also in 144 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: charge of any contingencies. If things go wrong, they have 145 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: the ability to step in and take manual control role and. 146 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 3: Help troubleshoot problems. 147 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: So between the ground control, the mission control folks, and 148 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 2: the flight team on orbit the astronaut, they're gonna be 149 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: watching over every single thing, and if anything doesn't look right, 150 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: they're certaining a report to the ground and they're going 151 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: to fix it real time. So it isn't like you 152 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: can pull your car over and think about it. These 153 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: folks have to operate and get a right spot on 154 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: every time. 155 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: Former NASA Test director Mike Cinelli spent thirty years inside 156 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: the US Space program. You spend roles, spend time including 157 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: launch operations, leadership, astronaut briefings. Hey, Mike, I've seen the 158 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: movie with Tom Hanks, Apollo thirteen, one hundred times great movie, 159 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: and that was in the sixties. I'm assuming that there 160 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: have been advances in the technology, but it's still a 161 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: dangerous operation. Can you maybe talk about the differences between 162 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: then and getting back into the Earth's atmosphere now? 163 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Well, exactly. There's so many similarity in so many differences, 164 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: So you think back in the nineteen sixties. What makes 165 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: it even more amazing what they pulled off back then 166 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: is the lunar module, the landing system to the moon, 167 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: and the computers. Our cell phones today, the cell phone 168 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: every's holding in their hand today has more power by 169 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: many factors than the computers on board that spacecrafted So 170 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: you think about that wo theylew, they flew to the Moon, landed, 171 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 2: took over, and landed the vehicles and dealt with all 172 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 2: of that with less computing power than we do to 173 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 2: check the weather and do things on our phone. So 174 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: that technology has advanced tremendously. 175 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: The simulations, all the training for the crew. 176 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of advancements and technology and hardware advances, 177 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: but the essence what you said was perfect spot on, 178 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: is it's still a dangerous mission. 179 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: It'll always be risky. 180 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: You're flying edge of the envelope, it's super high speeds. 181 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: You know, you're using fuels and quantity of the fuels 182 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: that have the explosive. 183 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: Power of an atomic bomb. 184 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: So you still have all of those risks associated with it. 185 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: And that's why we really do everything we can to train, 186 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: to practice. You know, we're doing this on behalf of 187 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: the American people. We've got to make sure we got 188 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 2: it right. And our friends are sitting on top of 189 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: this and you want to get them home. So it's 190 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: a lot of practice and a lot of humility to 191 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: realize we're doing something very audacious and a lot of 192 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: things can go wrong very quickly. So again, a lot 193 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: of similarities in the risk posture for back then, but 194 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: also the technology has certainly helped us in a lot 195 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: of ways, making the safety improvements and making a little 196 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: bit easier on the astronauts flying on the board. 197 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 4: My last thing here before we let you go. We 198 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 4: got about thirty seconds left here, but I was talking 199 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 4: with a friend the other day. This is one of 200 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 4: the few things that I think brings everybody together, Republicans, Democrats, 201 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 4: it doesn't matter who you are. People who know normally 202 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 4: fight about everything, usually on Facebook and social media, but 203 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 4: they're all in on wanting this to be successful. Like 204 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 4: the Space program, when the United States is out there 205 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 4: kicking ass in the space program, this is something that 206 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: brings everybody together. Would you agree? 207 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 208 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: Everybody, all your hoosiers out there, everyone else. You're all 209 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: part of the space program. We thank you for your support. 210 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: And it's got an American flag on the side of 211 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: that rocket. We're all in this together, and when they 212 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: land tomorrow, all of us are going to land and 213 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 2: that caps will together be proud of what we all 214 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: did as a nation. 215 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 4: Mike Janelle, thank you so much for your time and 216 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 4: we love to have you back. 217 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: Thanks Mike, thank you, my pleasure. Thank you guys. 218 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 4: It's the Hammer and Nigel Show.