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Speaker 1: Live from Baal Heartbland and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 2: The Pentagon is now threatening to court martial Senator Mark Kelly.

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Speaker 3: Good Now, I don't know if they actually can. I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: You could recall him to active duty service and make

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Speaker 2: this happen. Why is this happening? Well, that's a bigger story.

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Speaker 2: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 3: Great to be here, Good to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Live streaming YouTube dot com slash Tony Katz. Don't forget

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Speaker 2: to subscribe right, make that happen. Let me let me

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Speaker 2: bring this to you. This started with a video of

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Speaker 2: such disgusting proportion.

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Speaker 3: From Senator Mark Kelly.

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Speaker 2: Of Arizona, Senator Alissa Slopkin of Michigan, Congressman Jason Crow,

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Speaker 2: and a host of others, including a congresswoman by the

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Speaker 2: name of Maggie Goodlander.

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Speaker 3: Maggie Goodlander, who.

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Speaker 2: Was a foreign policy advisor to Joe Lieberman and John McCain,

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Speaker 2: a law clerk to Merrick Garland and Justice Bryer, served

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Speaker 2: on the House Judiciary Committee during the first impeachment of Trump.

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Speaker 3: And she is a member of Congress.

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Speaker 2: You know, she's married to Jake Sullivan, the former National

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Speaker 2: Security advisor under Biden. You want to talk about somebody

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Speaker 2: who knows how to be subversive, it's Maggie Goodlander. Maggie

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Speaker 2: Goodlander was amongst those who made this video that said, hey,

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Speaker 2: active service military, the Trump administration is bad and they're

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Speaker 2: putting you in a bad spot, and you do not

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Speaker 2: have to follow illegal orders. You must disobey illegal orders.

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Speaker 2: This was, of course, these Democrats pushing the idea that

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Speaker 2: Trump should not be able to be in charge of

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Speaker 2: the military's commander.

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Speaker 3: In chief and you shouldn't listen to him.

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Speaker 2: It was undermining the presidency, It was undermining the executive branch.

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Speaker 3: It was trying to usurp the duly elected president. It

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Speaker 3: is obscene.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people on your social media feeds and

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Speaker 2: my social media feed have decided that the correct response

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Speaker 2: is what's wrong with letting them active military know what

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Speaker 2: their duty is and know what their rules are. I

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Speaker 2: can't stop people from saying something that ignorantly stupid, and

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Speaker 2: I say it exactly that way, because everybody who is

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Speaker 2: rational knows what these senators and these members of Congress

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Speaker 2: were doing. Everybody the sophistry of they were just saying,

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Speaker 2: what's the law, what's the law? And you don't follow

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Speaker 2: illegal orders. That isn't what they were doing. That's what

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Speaker 2: they said. That's not what they were saying. Rational people

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Speaker 2: understand what is being what they were saying. People who

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Speaker 2: think that everything is a court of law want to

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Speaker 2: go into what was said.

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Speaker 3: We know better, and so does America.

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Speaker 2: And what we saw on Sunday Show after Sunday Show

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Speaker 2: after Sunday Show was the ignorance of people like Representative Goodlander, who, when.

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Speaker 3: Asked about this, sounded like a child.

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Speaker 2: Take away from your message away from Alex.

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Speaker 4: We love this country, We love our constitution. It is

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Speaker 4: our job as lawmakers, and especially in this moment, to

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Speaker 4: be clear morally, to be clear legally, and simply and

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Speaker 4: clearly stating what the law says, what the Uniform Code

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Speaker 4: of Military Justice says. It's not a crime, it is

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Speaker 4: not treason, it is not sedition. It is our job,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's really important that we do our

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Speaker 4: jobs in this.

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Speaker 2: I did not know she also did voiceover for Cartoon Network.

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Speaker 2: Now there's nothing I can do about her voice, nothing

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Speaker 2: she can do about her voice. She certainly does not

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Speaker 2: sound in any way authoritative it happens. But does that

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Speaker 2: sound like somebody who's convinced of her position, who believes

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Speaker 2: in the strength of her position, or is she being

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Speaker 2: a meally mouthed whatever you want to do, then say

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Speaker 2: next by trying to skate around what it is that

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Speaker 2: she thinks her job is and what she says she

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Speaker 2: was saying, when of course that isn't the thing that

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Speaker 2: was being said. But she is not the only one

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Speaker 2: who was doing this. This is representative Jason Crowe.

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Speaker 5: Let's get to the content of what you had in

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Speaker 5: that video you released, because there are also fifteen House

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Speaker 5: Republicans who are also veterans who released a video, including

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Speaker 5: a retired three star Marine Corps General Jack Bergman.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to this, troops, listen up. Any service member.

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Speaker 1: Who refuses a lawful order is subject to court martial

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Speaker 1: for violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. We study

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Speaker 1: what's lawful and what's not lawful, and the Democrats stunt

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Speaker 1: insinuating that their illegal or unconstitutional orders.

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Speaker 3: It's downright dangerous, it is corrosive.

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Speaker 1: It is meant to weaken our country and weaken the military.

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Speaker 5: How do you respond to these allegations from your colleagues,

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Speaker 5: fellow veterans that what you have put out there is

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Speaker 5: weakening and corrosive to the military. Well, these, unfortunately, are

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Speaker 5: some of Trump's core supporters that are rallying behind the president.

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Speaker 2: And these are fellow members of the military who have

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Speaker 2: served with distinction. Now all of a sudden, they're just

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Speaker 2: Trump supporters. I did not know we were allowed to

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Speaker 2: dismiss members of the military because they're on one side

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Speaker 2: of the aisle.

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Speaker 3: Or the other.

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Speaker 2: I thought these were people who sacrificed everything in service

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Speaker 2: of their country, just like you.

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Speaker 3: Guess not.

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Speaker 2: Guess that's not the case. I guess when when you're

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Speaker 2: a Republican your service for the nation doesn't matter, or

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Speaker 2: you can be as absolutely ignorant as Senator Alyssa Slotkin,

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Speaker 2: who when asked about this by Martha Roddicks. Oh, but

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Speaker 2: I should give the warning right now if you're driving

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Speaker 2: hands on ten and two. I know, I know, the

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Speaker 2: kids say you're supposed to have your hands on nine

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Speaker 2: to three because of airbags or something else. I'm an

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Speaker 2: old schooler. It's ten and two a ride or die.

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Speaker 2: At ten and two. That's where the hands go right there.

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Speaker 3: Until you get me.

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Speaker 2: The Jetsons and the truly self flying cars. My hands

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Speaker 2: are on ten and two center or LISSI sluckin. You've

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Speaker 2: been warned.

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Speaker 6: Is very clear that no one should follow an illegal order,

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Speaker 6: But it's very murky when you look at what is

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Speaker 6: an illegal order, and if you go into morally ethically,

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Speaker 6: that's a pretty tough thing to look at and say,

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Speaker 6: how do I navigate this?

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 7: I mean, look a, you're going back to Nuremberg right that, Well,

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Speaker 7: they told me to do it.

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Speaker 3: That's why I murdered people. Is not an excuse.

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Speaker 7: If you look at popular culture, there's like you watch

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Speaker 7: you know a few good men like We have plenty

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Speaker 7: of examples since World War Two in Vietnam where people

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Speaker 7: were told to follow illegal and they did it and

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Speaker 7: they were prosecuted for it.

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Speaker 3: Your argument, let's just slock.

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Speaker 2: Him for making a video usurping the duly elected president

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Speaker 2: of the United States, for putting the idea out there

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Speaker 2: that the commander in chief should not be listened to

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Speaker 2: that he's engaging illegal orders. Is a code read from

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Speaker 2: Colonel Jessup. Kevin Pollack wouldn't have needed Tom Cruise. He

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Speaker 2: could have found you guilty. He could have found you

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Speaker 2: guilty and had time to have done grumpy old men three.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there was a grumpy old men three.

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Speaker 2: There was a grumpy old man and a grumpy old men.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there was a third one. The best

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Speaker 2: you could do is a few good men. You said

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Speaker 2: that Trump was issuing illegal orders.

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Speaker 3: Well, tony, they didn't say that.

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Speaker 2: What you were saying is Trump issues illegal orders and

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Speaker 2: everybody in America saw it, and everybody in America heard it,

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Speaker 2: and no one, no one should think that this is okay.

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Speaker 2: This brings us to the statement from the Secretary of

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Speaker 2: War Pete Hegseth.

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Speaker 3: This statement reads that the video.

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Speaker 2: Made by the seditious six was despicable, reckless, and false.

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Speaker 2: Encouraging our warriors to ignore the orders of their commanders

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Speaker 2: undermines every aspect of good order and discipline that's accurate.

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Speaker 2: He goes on to state their fullest screeds sows doubt

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Speaker 2: and confusion, which only puts our warriors danger. Five of

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Speaker 2: the six individuals in that video do not fall under

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Speaker 2: the Department of War jurisdiction. One is CIA, and four

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Speaker 2: are former military but not retired, so they are no

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Speaker 2: longer subject to the UCMJ. However, Mark Kelly, retired Navy commander,

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Speaker 2: is still subject to the Uniform Code.

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Speaker 3: Of Military Justice, and he knows that. Which brings us.

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Speaker 2: To the story about the Pentagon, which is now threatening

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Speaker 2: to court martial Senator Mark Kelly. They may call on

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Speaker 2: Mark Kelly, They may call him back to active duty

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Speaker 2: and therefore face court martial proceedings or other administrative actions

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Speaker 2: under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

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Speaker 3: The Department saying, quote, this.

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Speaker 2: Matter will be handled in compliance with military law, ensuring

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Speaker 2: due process and impartiality.

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Speaker 3: Good. Good, in every single way.

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Speaker 2: Good. I did not serve. I did not serve in

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Speaker 2: the military. Someone on social media was saying, you were

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Speaker 2: too afraid, and I said, what kind of stupid nonsense

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Speaker 2: is that?

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Speaker 3: It is of disappointment in my life, not that I

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Speaker 3: didn't serve.

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Speaker 2: That my earlier days, my younger days, were engaged in

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Speaker 2: depression and confusion. Sadness kept me from a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of things, and a whole bunch of opportunities, and a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of thoughts of what could have been opportunities.

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Speaker 2: Military was never ever in the cards for me. Ever,

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Speaker 2: back then, there would have been no way to see

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Speaker 2: that one through. There would be no capacity for me

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Speaker 2: to handle that.

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Speaker 3: That is to.

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Speaker 2: Not to my shame, just the reality of what it

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Speaker 2: was for me. I know that people.

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Speaker 3: Joined the military.

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Speaker 2: I knew there was a military, Certainly I had parents

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Speaker 2: who had no interest in me going down that road

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Speaker 2: and never entertained it with me. I will tell you

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Speaker 2: exactly what I told my children. If you told me

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Speaker 2: you want to join the Navy, we'd have a conversation

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Speaker 2: about it. If you told me you want to join

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Speaker 2: the Army, we'd have a different conversation about it. If

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Speaker 2: you told me you wanted to join the Marines, we'd

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Speaker 2: have a really different conversation about it. These are different

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Speaker 2: worlds than I come from, and you've got to understand

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Speaker 2: what it is you're getting into and how these things

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Speaker 2: are different, and what it is you're signing up for

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Speaker 2: because there is no out, there is only through. But

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Speaker 2: I would not have objected. I still would not object.

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Speaker 2: The military is better off that they didn't have to

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Speaker 2: deal with me. I would have been better off not

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Speaker 2: having such a level of depression in my childhood into

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Speaker 2: my early adulthood and having figured it out later and

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Speaker 2: found a better way later in life. I am just

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Speaker 2: thankful I found a better way. You want to call

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Speaker 2: it an excuse, I'm giving you reality. You don't want

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Speaker 2: to buy it. I can't do anything about that. There

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Speaker 2: were people at a younger age far more equipped for

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Speaker 2: what this nation needed.

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Speaker 3: Than I did. And good on them. Good on them

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Speaker 3: for answering the call.

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Speaker 2: Mark Kelly deserves no love now, no harm should come

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Speaker 2: to him from any citizen. All that stuff is madness

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Speaker 2: and nonsense, and the swatting and everything else. It's ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: it's disgusting. It isn't how we do things. I have

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Speaker 2: a ballot. I can do this without all the things

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Speaker 2: that disastrous nations have to go through.

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Speaker 3: But being charged. Hell, yes, hell yes, I favor it.

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Speaker 2: I favor Mark Kelly having to deal with the consequences

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Speaker 2: of his actions.

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Speaker 3: He wants to lecture to us.

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Speaker 2: About how he upholds a code and then does not

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Speaker 2: uphold the code. He should have to live by it.

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Speaker 2: Someone in the chat says, but you're advocating for regular

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Speaker 2: Americans to go to war while you sit at home

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Speaker 2: telling us propaganda. First of all, nothing I have said

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Speaker 2: is propaganda. It is a point of view. If you

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Speaker 2: don't like it, you don't have to listen. Secondly, advocating

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Speaker 2: for regular Americans to go to war you mean soldiers

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Speaker 2: when the moment does call for it, And the answer

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Speaker 2: is yes. I advocate, when the moment calls for it,

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Speaker 2: for us to engage a fighting force of full and

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Speaker 2: outright lethality to destroy the enemy until the enemy is

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Speaker 2: quite literally dead. Can I ask what's wrong with you

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Speaker 2: that you don't I did not say that we should

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Speaker 2: go to war for as the Constitution would describe with

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Speaker 2: the Constitutions declaration sorry, light and transient causes. I don't

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Speaker 2: believe in that. But when the moment comes, the answer

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Speaker 2: is we send other people's children to fight. That's the

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Speaker 2: way it goes. You don't understand that you would not

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Speaker 2: have won World War two, You would not have won anything.

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Speaker 2: You would still be a subject of the king. It's

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Speaker 2: time for grown ups, and it's time for Senator Mark Kelley,

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Speaker 2: and I believe all the rest who should resign in

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Speaker 2: shame to have to deal with the consequences of their

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Speaker 2: despicable actions.

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Speaker 3: Let's see what the Pentagon does. This is Tony Katz today,