1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: So in the midst of everything we're doing in the 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: news cycle, right in the midst of what we're dealing 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: with right now, whether it's Iran, whether it's oil prices, 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: whether it's DHS funding, whether it's the insanity of the 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: political left somehow still thinking that men could be women 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: or women could be men. What is social media? Are 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: we all controlled by the bots? Or is there an 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: actual push for some of the insanity we see? There 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: is a loss of the history lesson how did we 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: get to where we are? And this is not just 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: true of things regarding Trump, things regarding social media. There 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: are these larger scale things that have taken place of 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: a small discussion but very very large effect. Tony Katz, 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Tony Katz today, Good to be here, Good to be 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: with you. John Bachmann joins me right now. He is 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: the host of John Bachman Now on news Max. He 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: is one of the ogs over there since two thousand 18 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: and eleven, the og and his new book Turning Point. 19 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan liberated Grenada and won the Cold War. 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: Who in the world is writing books about Grenada? 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: But you find out this is a book about Ronald 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: Reagan and Margaret Thatcher and really what conservatives like myself 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: view as this era of conservatism where there was a philosophy, 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: there were rules, there was a standard, and it wasn't 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: about being loved, it was about being right. Start with, 26 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: how in the world you decided that this was something 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: that needed a book. 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 3: Hey, Tony, how are you? And hello to your audience. Well, 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: this started as a conversation over dinner I was having 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: with a man named sal Russo, who's reference in the book. 31 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: He was a longtime friend of Ronald Reagan's, and we 32 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 3: were having a conversation about the fact that Ronald Reagan 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: was so cool and calm and collected, especially after he 34 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 3: got shot. He was just operating on a different plane. 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: He didn't get dragged into petty political fights like most 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: people did. He just operated above all of that. And 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: that was the one time that sal Russo told me 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: he saw Reagan where he was freaking out. Was the 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: day after he had authorized Operation Urgent Fury, And that 40 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: was because Reagan was deeply concerned about what it had 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: done to his relationship with Margaret Thatcher. Grenada an independent country, yes, 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 3: but also part of the British Commonwealth, and the United 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: States had made a decision much like the Trump administration 44 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: made the decision to not tell anyone about their going 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: into Venezuela, that the Reagan administration didn't tell a soul 46 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 3: even the British Commonwealth about their decision to authorize urgent 47 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: fury and go into Grenada. 48 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about Grenada. Grenada is 49 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: an island in the Caribbean. It's off the coast of Venezuela. 50 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: It's right there with Saint Lucia Martinique. Barbados is to 51 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: the east. Turned out in Tobago is to the south. 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: It's an island. That's It's a blip. If you missed it, 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: you missed it. 54 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: What was the significance of Grenada to the British and Toss. 55 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: Well, it was significant because of its location exactly where 56 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: you described. You as a great job of describing where 57 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: it is. And the Grenadian government wanted to build a 58 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: massive runway on the tiny island. And obstensibly they were 59 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: doing this because they wanted to attract tourism to the island. 60 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: But the real reason they were doing it is because 61 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: it would have given the Soviets and the Cubans a 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: very critical military outposts where they could fly their heavy 63 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: cargo planes in and out of Grenada without the same 64 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: type of scrutiny that they would if they were flying 65 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: it into mainland South America or into Cuba, which both 66 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: were heavily monitored by the United States. So that was 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: one of the main reasons that it first came on 68 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: the radar, is that the United States got wind of 69 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: really what was a military air base being built on 70 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: this tiny island that would have benefited the Soviets and 71 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: the Cubans. 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Talking to you John Bachman, he's the host of John 73 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: Bachman Now on Newsmax and the author of Turning Point 74 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: How Reagan Liberated Grenada and won the Cold War, which 75 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: is a very interesting way to try, you know, these 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: dominoes falling. But before we get maybe a little bit 77 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: further on the warfront, you bring up Margaret Thatcher and 78 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: the relationship with Margaret Thatcher. 79 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: Dig in a little bit deeper. How did the moves 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: in Grenada. 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about nineteen eighty three here, so we're forty 82 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: three years removed from this. How did those moves affect 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: the relationship about regarding what she was not told and 84 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: then how it went after she was. 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was devastated by the fact that Reagan did 86 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 3: not tell her, and there's a recording of the phone 87 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 3: call that Reagan made to Margaret Thatcher. She quickly forgave him. 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: But what it did was called a lot of political 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 3: turmoil for Margaret Thatcher inside the UK when she was 90 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 3: trying to develop this relationship, you know, leading the Conservative 91 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: Party in the UK at a time when they were 92 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: trying to shrug off their the Labor Party's mistakes and 93 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 3: all the stagnation that they were dealing with there, Margaret 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: Thatcher faced a lot of political ridicule because she was 95 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: not given the heads up by her supposed political soulmate 96 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: from the United States. There's a lot of questions of 97 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: whether or not she had damaged the relationship with the 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: United States as a result of this, but of course 99 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: she was able to move past that with President Reagan 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: and their partnership is is also explored in this this book. 101 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: You know, it's it's safe to say that both relied 102 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 3: heavily on each other to fight back against communism, and 103 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: you couldn't They couldn't have done it without each other. 104 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,239 Speaker 2: Of this, there's no question I heard agree. 105 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: But the issues that it gave to Margaret Thatcher, you know, 106 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: I take a look at the fact that there are 107 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: some European nations and they're being questioned on how come 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: they're not being more supportive of what's happening with Iran 109 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: and why aren't they going to help? And my answer 110 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: has been nobody wants to see being, you know, follow 111 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: the leader, being the second guy there, the last girl 112 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: asked to the dance. If you're going to be part 113 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: of some operation to rid the world of the largest 114 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: state sponsor of terror, you want to be there when 115 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: it happens, so you can be the guy who looked 116 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: strong as opposed to the person who came after that 117 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: all the work was done and you're there basically just 118 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: to sweep up. Was that the kind of take that 119 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher was dealing with with Parliament once this got unveiled. 120 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And there are so many similarities between how the 121 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: global community responded to Operation Urgent Fury and how the 122 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: global community is responding to Operation Ethic Fury. There are 123 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: a lot of parallels there. The European community didn't like it, 124 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 3: and all of the liberals inside the UK didn't like it. 125 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: The media in the United States didn't like it. They 126 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: accused Reagan people. The reason why this story is underreported 127 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: is because it happened just two and three days after 128 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 3: the Beirut Marine Barracks bombing in Lebanon, and Ronald Reagan 129 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: had to make a decision. There was a viral photo 130 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: that going around on social media this week of a 131 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: bunch of Secret Service agents wearing navy blazers and khaki 132 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: pants and boat shoes at Augusta National Golf Club. This 133 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 3: is actually where Ronald Reagan made the decision to both 134 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: respond to the Marine barracks bombings in Beirut and to 135 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: what happened in Grenada, which and on top of what 136 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: I mentioned before with the runway that was being constructed there, 137 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: there were about six hundred American medical students on the island. 138 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: There's a medical school there called Saint George's Medical School. 139 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 3: And the initial Communist taytor who took over from the 140 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: Governor general and the democratic way of running Grenada, a 141 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: guy named Maurice Bishop. He was actually murdered by a 142 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 3: more radical Marxist on the island, the guy who once 143 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: was his friend. But when that coup took place, of 144 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 3: the violent coup of Maurice Bushop, the American medical students 145 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: were put on a curfew, a shoot on site curfew, 146 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: and told that they violated the curfew they would be killed, 147 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: And that happened just a couple of days after the 148 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: Marine Barracks bombing. Ronald Reagan made the decision then to 149 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: go in rescue the American medical students, restore democracy and 150 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 3: send the message to the entire communist world that we 151 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 3: were done tolerating the expansion of communism in the Western Hemisphere. 152 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: Talking to John Bachman the book Turning Point How Reagan 153 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: Liberated Grenada and Won the Cold War? Walk me through 154 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: after effects here, because you know, the question is what 155 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: do we learned from and how does it change things? 156 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: And I think that we can go through our own 157 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: basic histories right, not necessarily being historians and having these 158 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: in depth, detailed understandings of specific instances like you were 159 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: able to do as you dug in on this book, which, 160 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: by the way, the book Turning Point How Reagan Liberated 161 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: Grenada and Won the Cold War available at Amazon dot 162 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: Com or wherever fine books are sold. 163 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: What is the lesson here? 164 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: What is it that the Pentagon that the military leaders, 165 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: that analysts took into effect from what took place and 166 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: how has it affected foreign policy going forward. 167 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Grenada was viewed mostly as a failure 168 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: the way it was portrayed in the media that we 169 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: lost nineteen American service members. But the big takeaway and 170 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: why it ultimately is looked at as a success, is 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: how the Grenadian people feel about the United States coming 172 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: in and liberating their island from communism. They still celebrate 173 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 3: this every year on October twenty fifth as their Thanksgiving Day, 174 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 3: and that is the day that they were liberated from communists. 175 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 3: They still that is the I think the best way 176 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: to measure the success of the operation. Now, we have 177 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: been taught Tony, basically our whole entire adult lives that 178 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: there are only two choices when it comes to military engagements. 179 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: That is, one, don't do it at all. The isolationists theory, 180 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 3: which has permeated through the Republican Party and is we 181 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 3: know from history, is not the best way to proceed. 182 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 3: And then what we also saw in our lifetimes was 183 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: these prolonged, decades long conflicts Iraq and Afghanistan where we 184 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: are in forever wars. What Grenada teaches us is that 185 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: there is a third way there is a limited military engagement. 186 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: You don't establish a occupying force. You turn the island 187 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,479 Speaker 3: back over to its people, You allow them to conduct elections, 188 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: and then you get out. You don't have these long 189 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: hearts and minds campaigns that have not proven successful. You 190 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: can think you can add Vietnam into the mix as well, 191 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: and I think that's what we might be seeing developed 192 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: with President Trump specifically, when you talk about Venezuela and 193 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: the fact that they went in there black bag, Nicholas 194 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: Maduro got him out of there, and now are able 195 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: to run things the way they are. I think they 196 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: need to make more changes. It's really hard for a 197 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: lot of the Venezuelan people to accept Delsea Rodriguez as 198 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 3: the president of that country, considering she was right there 199 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: with Nicholas Maduro doing everything horrible that he did. But 200 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: we don't have an occupying force in Venezuela. That's not 201 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: going to turn into Iraq. Iran is obviously a little 202 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: bit more complicated right now, but it doesn't appear like 203 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 3: that's going to turn into an Iraq or in Afghanistan either, 204 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: And Grenado wasn't that. Certainly a much smaller scale, of course, 205 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 3: but still it was intense conflict and we did not 206 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: turn it into a forever war. So that is the takeaway. 207 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: There is a third option available for the US military. 208 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: John Bachman. 209 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: The book is Turning Point, How Reagan liberated Grenada and 210 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: won the Cold War. You can find that at Amazon 211 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: dot com, wherever fine books are sold. Catch him noon 212 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: every Monday through Friday. On the end too over there 213 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: at Newsmax. John, appreciate you as always, thanks for taking 214 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: the time. 215 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: Always great and to talk to you Tony and look 216 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: forward to having you on the show soon or coming up. 217 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Katz today.