WEBVTT - Mac & Bone Show - Dave Clawson Interview 0:00:00.050 --> 0:00:03.890 We're talking about Dave Klaassen, ACC Network ESPN, and he 0:00:03.930 --> 0:00:06.750 joins us here on the Mac and Bone Show. 0:00:06.830 --> 0:00:08.740 Coach, what's going on? How are you doing this morning? 0:00:09.820 --> 0:00:11.760 I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on. 0:00:12.539 --> 0:00:14.900 Coach, what do you think? 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:16.980 I know you've got to have a soft spot for 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.180 the Deacs all your years there and the stuff you 0:00:20.220 --> 0:00:23.500 did with them. Man, Jake Dickard has taken the baton, 0:00:23.540 --> 0:00:26.300 and he is running. The latest example was blowing out 0:00:26.410 --> 0:00:29.270 NC State in Raleigh. What do you– I mean, like, 0:00:29.370 --> 0:00:32.150 is this– I mean, you've got to talk about this 0:00:32.250 --> 0:00:35.940 team in terms of getting to Charlotte, potentially, for an 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:37.379 ACC title game, don't we? 0:00:38.580 --> 0:00:42.940 Well, right now you have Miami, who's undefeated in the ACC, 0:00:43.220 --> 0:00:46.920 and you have nine teams with one loss. And of 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.800 those nine teams, I think there's no question that Wake 0:00:49.870 --> 0:00:53.670 Forest has been playing the very best football of those 0:00:53.750 --> 0:00:58.050 nine teams, and they're the most consistent team. 0:00:59.340 --> 0:01:02.340 Coach, I think your dog also agrees in the background 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:03.580 about Wake right now. 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.860 Yeah, our dogs agree. I'm actually dropping my daughter off 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:09.720 at ESPN. 0:01:10.230 --> 0:01:10.730 Oh, nice. 0:01:10.810 --> 0:01:16.310 She works there, and we're passing through the gates together. 0:01:16.510 --> 0:01:17.149 Oh, that's awesome. 0:01:17.170 --> 0:01:19.510 She works for ESPN. for game day, but the dogs 0:01:19.550 --> 0:01:22.110 have settled down. So sorry about that. 0:01:22.130 --> 0:01:23.570 I have a dog that does it every time on 0:01:23.610 --> 0:01:24.850 the phone too. So that's why it's funny. 0:01:25.170 --> 0:01:30.279 Coach SI.com right now has Wake Forest as a, as a, 0:01:30.390 --> 0:01:32.630 as a playoff team as one of the 12 teams. 0:01:32.650 --> 0:01:35.150 Do you, do you think there's a path there for, 0:01:35.270 --> 0:01:38.080 for way to potentially be maybe the second team in 0:01:38.100 --> 0:01:39.740 the ACC to be one of the playoff teams? 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.740 Well, right now, if the ACC gets a second team, 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.380 it would probably be Wake Forest. Now, there's a lot 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:52.960 of football left, and typically the ACC competes with the 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.720 Big 12 to be a two-bid team. So I think 0:01:57.780 --> 0:02:00.920 if you're Wake Forest, and this is going to sound 0:02:01.030 --> 0:02:05.010 really strange, you probably are a big Notre Dame fan 0:02:05.050 --> 0:02:05.630 this weekend. 0:02:07.310 --> 0:02:09.169 You had to take out BYU. It's a good point. 0:02:09.270 --> 0:02:10.110 That's a good call. 0:02:10.290 --> 0:02:14.610 Exactly. I think a lot of times that second bid 0:02:15.630 --> 0:02:22.690 in last year, Miami got in at large. Now this year, 0:02:22.830 --> 0:02:27.889 all the conference champions automatically get in. So you have 0:02:27.970 --> 0:02:33.330 seven at-larges. Probably the SEC will get three or four 0:02:33.370 --> 0:02:35.650 of those. A lot of times it comes down to 0:02:36.540 --> 0:02:37.780 You know, is it going to be a Big 12 0:02:37.780 --> 0:02:40.520 team that gets two bids or an ACC team that 0:02:40.540 --> 0:02:44.400 gets two bids? And, you know, so I think right 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.180 now you're probably talking, you know, Miami, Texas Tech, BYU, 0:02:48.260 --> 0:02:51.350 and Wake would be the four teams fighting for those 0:02:51.370 --> 0:02:54.150 three bids. And there's one easy way to take care 0:02:54.190 --> 0:02:56.830 of that. You just keep winning football games. And right now, 0:02:57.610 --> 0:03:00.450 Wake is playing at a really, really high level. And 0:03:01.930 --> 0:03:05.139 all the other teams they're competing with in the ACC– 0:03:05.820 --> 0:03:08.480 I think Wake is the one team that's good on 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:09.780 both sides of the football. 0:03:10.910 --> 0:03:11.410 That's a great point. 0:03:11.430 --> 0:03:17.510 I think SMU has a great offense. A lot of 0:03:17.550 --> 0:03:20.450 these teams are really strong on one side of the ball. 0:03:22.150 --> 0:03:23.910 And the reason Miami is the team they are is 0:03:23.930 --> 0:03:26.610 they're really strong on both sides of the ball. But 0:03:26.630 --> 0:03:30.500 you'd say Wake is the one team that can score 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:32.660 a lot of points and hold you down as well. 0:03:34.340 --> 0:03:34.720 No doubt. 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.160 We're talking to Dave Clawson, ACC Network, talking, of course, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:42.760 some ACC football. Carolina gets a big win, Belichick's first 0:03:42.820 --> 0:03:46.720 win over a ranked team at UNC. But, you know, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.040 it does feel like they're still limited a bit in 0:03:50.100 --> 0:03:52.570 terms of what they can do offensively, but they found 0:03:52.630 --> 0:03:55.710 a way to win. They're clearly better than last year, Dave. 0:03:55.730 --> 0:03:58.369 Do you think there's more big wins where that came 0:03:58.430 --> 0:03:59.590 from this year for Carolina? 0:04:01.270 --> 0:04:03.830 I do. I've watched them on film a lot this year. 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.220 I had them live once against East Tennessee State. And, 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.890 you know, people will talk about, well, look what Gio 0:04:12.930 --> 0:04:16.630 Lopez is doing with Wake compared to Carolina. For what 0:04:16.750 --> 0:04:20.880 North Carolina wants to do, you know, Billy Edwards probably 0:04:20.940 --> 0:04:25.500 fits their offensive system better. And, you know, Bill Belichick, 0:04:26.380 --> 0:04:28.060 you know, first of all, is a great head coach, 0:04:28.900 --> 0:04:33.409 but You know, he really is known as a defensive expert. 0:04:33.589 --> 0:04:35.230 You know, he won a couple of Super Bowls as 0:04:35.290 --> 0:04:40.110 a defensive coordinator. And they are built right now to 0:04:40.190 --> 0:04:44.690 play defense, run the football. They have a veteran quarterback 0:04:45.350 --> 0:04:47.599 that doesn't make a lot of mistakes and doesn't turn 0:04:47.630 --> 0:04:50.960 it over much. And they've got a formula there. They 0:04:51.020 --> 0:04:54.779 are a much improved football team. And, you know, Bill 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:59.289 Belichick's a smart football coach. And I think... He's made 0:04:59.330 --> 0:05:02.230 the adjustment to college football, and that was a really 0:05:02.290 --> 0:05:05.630 good win they had against Pitt. They made some huge 0:05:05.690 --> 0:05:10.140 defensive stops, and they can run the football and play defense. 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.080 Coach, one staple of the Wolfpack and the Dave Doran 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.719 run has been the consistency of the program and kind 0:05:18.779 --> 0:05:21.700 of knowing each year who they are. This year it's 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.220 not been that way. It's been inconsistent. What do you 0:05:24.260 --> 0:05:27.080 think has led to them being inconsistent this year in 0:05:27.100 --> 0:05:27.700 some of their games? 0:05:29.570 --> 0:05:35.710 Well, it's hard to tell. I mean, again, that's a 0:05:35.770 --> 0:05:38.669 hard question for me. I really like Dave and have 0:05:38.710 --> 0:05:42.380 a ton of respect for Dave. And such a big 0:05:42.420 --> 0:05:45.820 deal was made of them keeping the quarterback, C.J. Bailey. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.140 But people forget that he lost his best offensive lineman. 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:56.180 They lost Hollywood Smothers. And I think part of the 0:05:57.060 --> 0:06:01.369 issue with college football right now, is you no longer 0:06:01.430 --> 0:06:06.150 have programs, you have teams. And when your team is 0:06:06.190 --> 0:06:09.029 switching every year, it almost takes you a month to 0:06:09.110 --> 0:06:13.030 figure out what your team is. You know, so for example, 0:06:13.830 --> 0:06:16.800 sometimes I'd go through training camp and I'd think like, 0:06:16.830 --> 0:06:20.480 you know what, boy, we are really, really good at receiver. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.260 We can throw the ball this year. We're going to 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.100 be able to stretch people and get the ball thrown 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.180 down the field. And then you start playing games against 0:06:27.250 --> 0:06:29.360 other teams and you find out that, you know what, 0:06:29.580 --> 0:06:31.620 we're really not that good at receiver. We're just that 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:37.060 bad at corner. And maybe we're better in some areas 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.860 than we thought. So you always go into a year thinking, 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.820 this is the makeup of our football team. And then 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.250 kind of a month into it, it changes. And, you know, 0:06:48.290 --> 0:06:50.730 I think that's one of the things that all teams 0:06:50.770 --> 0:06:54.730 struggle with, but You know, obviously the Vanderbilt loss was 0:06:54.770 --> 0:06:58.310 a huge loss, but then they come back, they beat App, 0:06:58.930 --> 0:07:01.870 they come back, they have a great win against Louisville, 0:07:02.420 --> 0:07:04.640 and Wake Forest is a really good football team. I 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:06.960 think what Wake Forest did to NC State, they're going 0:07:06.980 --> 0:07:09.900 to do to a lot of people, and if anybody 0:07:09.940 --> 0:07:13.620 who follows the ACC should know one thing, is Dave 0:07:13.660 --> 0:07:16.990 Dorn and NC State out. His teams always get better 0:07:17.030 --> 0:07:18.310 in the second half of the season. 0:07:19.380 --> 0:07:20.420 They do. That's true. 0:07:20.820 --> 0:07:23.550 Last thing I want to ask you about, Coach, is 0:07:24.770 --> 0:07:27.990 what we've seen in terms of coaches in this era 0:07:28.050 --> 0:07:32.020 of NIL. be able to really make quick turnarounds. Obviously, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.500 Cignetti is one that is pointed to, but heck, Eric Morris, 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:40.750 Oklahoma State, Will Stein, Kentucky, Bob Chesney at UCLA. What 0:07:40.770 --> 0:07:43.850 do you think of what we're seeing from coaches that 0:07:43.870 --> 0:07:46.770 are able to go there? And does that make it 0:07:46.930 --> 0:07:51.940 harder on coaches' job security? Because fan bases and boosters 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.260 will look and say, hey, if we make a change, 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.900 we can do what those schools are doing. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.440 How do you view this development in this new era? 0:07:59.670 --> 0:08:04.870 Okay, so you have like five questions in one there. Okay, 0:08:05.030 --> 0:08:09.590 so first off, the Cignetti model, if you can see, 0:08:09.650 --> 0:08:13.810 it's changed how people hire people, right? That before it 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.880 was really hard for a group of five head coach 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.080 to get a power four job. Now those hires have 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:25.320 become very popular because those coaches can bring 15 or 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.010 20 players with them. So Cignetti brought a bunch of 0:08:29.050 --> 0:08:33.069 JMU players with him. Jake Dickard brought a bunch of 0:08:33.090 --> 0:08:38.319 guys from Washington State with him. Bob Chesney brought guys 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.400 from JMU with him. Eric Morris was able to bring 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:46.360 players from North Texas with him. So you're almost at 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.590 an advantage when you're a new head coach because you 0:08:49.630 --> 0:08:53.550 can now bring 10, 15, 20 players with you that 0:08:53.710 --> 0:08:56.990 understand your culture, that can help teach the other players 0:08:57.050 --> 0:08:59.600 in your locker room, this is what this head coach 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.500 is about, and help sell it to the rest of 0:09:02.540 --> 0:09:05.820 the team. Hey, we won doing this at Washington State. 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.600 We won doing this at JMU. So the whole idea 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.080 of it's three or four years before it's your program 0:09:12.140 --> 0:09:16.680 is no longer the case. Okay? So I think that's– 0:09:16.970 --> 0:09:21.250 you see more of a hiring trend of hiring, you know, 0:09:21.350 --> 0:09:26.410 John Sumrall from– Tulane goes to Florida. Like in the past, 0:09:26.450 --> 0:09:29.390 those group of five guys weren't getting that high level 0:09:29.450 --> 0:09:34.579 of a job. And yes, it makes job security harder 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:40.000 because now that you're paying for players, any fan or 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.420 anybody that contributes to the payroll expects an immediate result. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.880 And the truth of it is you're paying for the 0:09:47.940 --> 0:09:51.890 guys that you used to get free four years ago. 0:09:52.940 --> 0:09:57.450 Like everybody's paying. So like, because you're paying a player, 0:09:57.470 --> 0:09:59.250 it doesn't mean you're getting a better player. It just 0:09:59.309 --> 0:10:01.770 requires that. much money to get the Zane player that 0:10:01.790 --> 0:10:05.090 a scholarship used to get you. And so it's created 0:10:05.170 --> 0:10:12.450 this unrealistic expectation. Like I coached against Matt Campbell in 0:10:12.470 --> 0:10:14.530 the Mac. I was the head coach at Bowling Green 0:10:14.590 --> 0:10:19.040 and he was at Toledo. And Matt Campbell is a really, 0:10:19.179 --> 0:10:22.660 really good football coach. Like, to do what he did 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.809 at Iowa State and for all of a sudden people 0:10:25.850 --> 0:10:27.970 at Penn State to be up in arms because halfway 0:10:28.010 --> 0:10:30.610 through his first year he's not undefeated and ranked number 0:10:30.670 --> 0:10:35.590 one in the country. Like, that's, again, what Cignetti did 0:10:36.130 --> 0:10:39.980 at Indiana and is doing. Like, that's the needle in 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.840 the haystack. You're very rarely going to get that. And 0:10:44.620 --> 0:10:47.360 so anyways, you know, again, you're just, you're paying for 0:10:47.380 --> 0:10:49.160 the same guys you get to get for free. And 0:10:49.179 --> 0:10:52.790 I think because of that, fans have a different expectation 0:10:52.850 --> 0:10:55.270 immediately of their football coach and their football team. 0:10:55.429 --> 0:10:57.270 That was a great breakdown. It was a great answer 0:10:57.290 --> 0:11:00.850 to all five of my questions. Coach, you handled it beautifully. Also, Coach, 0:11:00.890 --> 0:11:02.410 my man here is a Penn State fan, so he 0:11:02.450 --> 0:11:06.110 feels heard by what you just said. Yeah, I tell you. 0:11:06.570 --> 0:11:08.390 You're right. It's tough. 0:11:08.470 --> 0:11:12.070 It's like, you know, the patience thing. Everybody can point to, oh, 0:11:12.110 --> 0:11:15.429 look at him, look at them. Coach, great stuff as always. 0:11:15.570 --> 0:11:17.860 And congrats to your daughter as well. That's an awesome 0:11:17.890 --> 0:11:19.270 job working for game day. 0:11:20.700 --> 0:11:26.079 Yeah, she's been to Tuscaloosa last weekend, Baton Rouge. She's 0:11:26.100 --> 0:11:29.960 seen a bunch of college towns, and it's really cool 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.200 for me. I used to bring my daughter with me 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:37.810 on away trips. And so, you know, for this to 0:11:37.890 --> 0:11:41.900 turn out to be her career choice, I think is just– 0:11:42.309 --> 0:11:45.550 I'm really proud of her, and it's kind of neat. 0:11:45.570 --> 0:11:47.250 You know, you have all this guilt as a coach 0:11:47.270 --> 0:11:50.170 all the time you miss from your family. But to 0:11:50.190 --> 0:11:52.810 see that maybe what I did has helped her career, 0:11:53.570 --> 0:11:55.010 it's a pretty cool payback. 0:11:55.110 --> 0:11:57.770 That's awesome. That's awesome. And tell your pup, your pup 0:11:57.790 --> 0:11:59.130 was good on the radio too, Coach. 0:11:59.370 --> 0:11:59.570 All right? 0:11:59.610 --> 0:12:03.339 We love the passion from your dog as well. Thank you, Coach. 0:12:03.380 --> 0:12:04.300 We appreciate it. 0:12:05.420 --> 0:12:07.050 Okay. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. 0:12:07.059 --> 0:12:07.980 Thanks, Coach. All right. Be good.