WEBVTT - Episode 4660: Tony Katz Today Hour 3 - 08/10/26 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:10.800 Why from vall Hartbeiner and the Crossroads of America. It's 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.600 Tony Katz today. The vast majority of people in America 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.800 know nothing about the Great Barrington Declaration. And the reason 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.640 they don't know about it is because, well, it didn't 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.640 get much play. Oh it was outrageously important. It was 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.720 doctors and health professionals and scientists saying, you know what 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.680 we're doing regarding COVID. This was in the middle of COVID, 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.320 in the heat of COVID. This is not in any 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.640 way smart or proper or good. This is a horrible 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:38.760 way to go about things. We don't know what doctor 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.080 Fauci or doctor Bergs or any of these other people 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.639 pretend that they are doing, but they're going to hurt 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.080 a lot of people. There's a better way to do this. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.600 And as you know, and I know, and we know, 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.600 many of those messages got silenced, whether it be from 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.800 some of the leading doctors and scientists and health professionals, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.760 or whether it be you asking a basic question on 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.560 social media. Tony, Tony Katz today, good to be with you. Well. 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.000 In the Treasure Trove of Things, the Senator Ran Paul 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:13.240 released from the Diary of Anthony Fauci, Doctor Anthony Fauci emails, etc. 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.840 Was this notification? You can find it. I've got it 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.840 over at tonykats dot com. This email that Fauci sent 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.240 to doctor Deborah Burks, you know, the one who wears 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.080 the scarves, asking her to come out against the Great 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:34.520 Barrington Declaration. Phil Magnus joins me right now. His work 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.639 is at the Independent Institute, where he is a Senior 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.600 Fellow and the David J. Threaux Chair in Political Economy. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.959 He also works with the American Institute for Economic Research, 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.360 where he was formerly the fa Hiak Share in Economics 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.720 at Economic History, which means he knows a lot of 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.120 things that we don't, which is good because this does 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.600 have a lot of economic connotations to it. He is 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.600 also the author of the sixteen nineteen project Myth and 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.840 Cracks in the Ivory Tower The Moral Mess of Higher Education, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.400 both of which touch on the concept of what it 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.560 is we are told versus what it is that is. 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.480 Phil Magnus, thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.600 You got a heck of a resume there. But I 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.680 want to discuss the Great Barrington Declaration. Let's start where 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.640 we start, which is what is the Great Barrington Declaration. 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.760 Absolutely so I was one of a very small number 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:32.280 of people that was actually in the room when the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.600 thing was signed in October twenty twenty. And this was 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.880 a document basically challenging the idea that lockdowns were the 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.560 way to deal with the pandemic, that pointed out that 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.760 lockdowns not only were on a very swim evidentiary basis 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.280 they didn't work, but on top of that, they cost 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.480 all sorts of social harms, economic harms. They put people 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.880 out of work, caused mental health issues, kept kids out 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.840 of schools. And this was a document that came together 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.640 during the second wave of COVID. If you remember, in 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.800 fall twenty twenty, the cases were ticking up again and 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:07.959 all of the people who had locked us down back 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.480 in the spring started revisiting those ideas, and in some 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.120 cases many states and many countries are in the world, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.800 they did re enact lockdowns again in the fall of 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.240 twenty twenty. But what happened is we got a group 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.160 of scientists together, and this was Jay Bodicheria, who's now 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:28.880 Fauci's replacement boss figure at the NIH. Donald Trump appointed 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.680 him in part because of his reputation entered this Martin 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.800 Koldorf of Harvard at the time, and Sinetric up to 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.280 of Oxford. So three physicians came together, we held a 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.280 conference on the case against lockdowns, and they articulated those 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:48.440 principles in a short to say summary statement to challenge 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.800 the return of this policy that Fauci and Berks and 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.480 some of the other figures in the so called public 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.320 health establishment were pushing at the time. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.440 One of the things the Great Barrington Declaration states, and 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.520 Great Barrington is where air is located. Correct, that's the 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.840 specific town that it's in. It reads coming from both 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.080 the left and right, and around the world, we have 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.240 devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.800 producing devastating effects on short and long term public health. 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.120 The result, to name a few, include lower childhood vaccination 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.200 rates worse than cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings, and 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.320 deteriorating mental health lead into greater excess mortality in years 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.000 to come, with the working class in younger members of 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:37.039 society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.159 is a grave injustice. When we think of the time 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.359 October twenty twenty as you're describing it, sir. This was 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.400 a very near radical thing to say everything we're hearing 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.240 from on high is wrong. It's a danger. Let us 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.800 say so it gets signed. What was the reaction and 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.080 the response to the Great Barrington Declaration. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.400 Initially it was very positive. It kind of went viral 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.120 on the internet, got picked up in some major news 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.040 media sources. I think the Wall Street Journal covered it. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.760 Fox News picked it up, and they pointed out that 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.760 this says, finally somebody is challenging Anthony Fauci and this 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.120 policy that he has been pushing for several months now 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.240 that doesn't seem to be working, doesn't seem to be 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.560 addressing the pandemic, and oh, by the way, it has 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.560 all these other costs and consequences. So that was the 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.680 initial reactions, generally positive, kind of recognizing, hey, we could 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.800 finally have the scientific debate we were denied in the spring. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.600 And then all of a sudden, this is probably about 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.680 three or four days after the decoration was signed, the 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.400 media turned outright hostile against it, attacks on the authors, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.279 calling them frings, epidemiologists. We got deboosted on the Google links, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.440 Google searches from it. It used to appear on the 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.520 top page along with news media coverage of it, and 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.960 then suddenly, all of a sudden, it's on page four 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:05.000 behind crazy conspiracy blogs announcing the Great Bearington Declaration is 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.159 going to kill us all. So very rapid switch in 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.200 the public discussion around it, and it was kind of 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.080 mystifying at the time of why that had happened, because 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.720 all we were asking for was a public debate over 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.599 the science, a public debate over whether lockdowns actually did 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:21.720 what they promised to do. 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.600 Talking to Phil Magnus, Senior fellow at the Independent Institute, 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.839 David J. Throwhare and political economy and his work with 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:36.080 Aier the American Institute for Economic Research, where he was 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.080 formerly the Fa Hyak Chair in Economics and Economic History, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.680 and we could certainly tie in a lot of what 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.359 we saw in the COVID days to what we have 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.240 seen in economic reality today. But there's also an economic 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.560 reality of what we have done to generations and what 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.599 it is we were doing in trying to from other 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.440 groups silencing this kind of talk you talk about, all 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:05.159 of a sudden it was removed from search engines, etc. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:11.480 This brings us to this email that doctor Fauci sent 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:16.160 out to Deborah Burks saying, so, just a heads up. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.400 Over the past week, I've come out very strongly publicly 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:26.200 against the Great Barrington Declaration. This was from October sixteenth, 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.640 twenty twenty, and asking her to do the same. To 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:35.920 come out against this. In a world of so called science, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.480 people can be hey, I disagree. What was it like 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.000 for him to come out against it? How did that 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:44.600 play out? 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.560 Well, we found out after the fact. You know, all 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.680 this sudden explosion of hate and demonization that was occurring 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.720 around the Great Bearrington Declaration, it actually had a cause, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.920 and Anthony Fauci was a major player in that cause. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.080 Filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the NIH 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.880 office where Fauci worked, way back in twenty twenty one, 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.480 and it actually kind of opened the door to looking 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.760 into this. So all the committee investigation that Ran Paul 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.600 has pursued ever since then, a couple of the lawsuits 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.120 around it. Kind of the starting point was the discovery 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.280 of an email, and this is an email from Fauci's 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.160 boss at the time, Francis Collins, to him saying, this 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.920 Great Barrington Declaration things going around. It has all these 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:38.040 fringe epidemiologists that are challenging lockdowns and colins ordered Fauci said, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.400 I want you to write and publish a devastating published 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.560 takedown of these authors and basically as a directive to 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.520 get this underway because we need to counter it. And Fauci, 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.520 it turns out, is that new email we got from 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.680 Rand Paul's committee and new foyas that have come true. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.640 He actually engages in a very coordinated campaign to smear 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.440 the Great Marrington Declaration in the media, in the press, 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.520 behind the scenes in the White House. He is a 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.160 consummate political actor, not a scientist, is what all these 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.560 emails tend to confirm. He's not looking at the evidence 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.320 on lockdowns or the arguments that were being made. He's 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.000 circulating political editorials in favor of lockdowns and calling friends 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:27.600 in the White House to try to suppress anti lockdown voices. 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.640 So one of the members of the COVID task force 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:34.200 that was a skeptic of lockdowns is doctor Scott Atlas, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.000 who's from Stanford University. He was brought in to kind 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.000 of be a counter voice to Fauci, and it turns 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.120 out right around the time of the Great Bearrington Declaration, Atlas, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.199 who had been favorable to it gets on Fauci's bad side, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.480 and Fauci starts this campaign with Burks to try to 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.400 get him fired and removed from the COVID Task Force 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.480 because they don't want any dissent internally. That's pushing for 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.120 a document like the Great Bearrington Declaration. They wanted be 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.400 able to call the shots on lockdowns. So, rather than 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.000 this being Fauci the science, as he often declared himself 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.400 to be, it's actually Tauci the political operative who is 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.800 trying to maintain control of the narrative and control over 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.800 the policy and steer it toward lockdowns. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:21.160 So the reason I speak to you certainly your connection 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.600 to the Great Barrington Declaration. But this view of this 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.360 in terms of the economics, right economics we think of 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.200 his dollars and cents, But economics is taking a look 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.440 at a situation and asking ourselves, how can we predict 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.720 the consequences right this? Now, Milton Friedman would describe economics, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.040 how do you predict the consequences of changes in circumstances? 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.160 And I do find myself to be a Milton Friedman guy, 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.640 Thomas Sowell guy. I would be more of an fa 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.320 Hiat guy. But just the reading is so incredibly boring. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.760 It's so just if he could write the way he 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.760 would think, I would be a happy man. But the 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:01.720 writing was just tedious. Is I'll get out? But we 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:06.320 talk about the economic consequences, to which there were none 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.120 that came into the thinking. And it seemed to me 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.280 that the Great Barrington Declaration dealt with all of the 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:19.440 potential consequences, and doctor Fauci, doctor Burke's mainstream media cared 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:24.040 not about consequences, but cared about fear for a purpose. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.080 Is that the correct assessment in your view? 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.760 I think it is absolutely the case. You know, as 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:36.120 you mentioned, incentives matter, secondary and tertiary effects of decisions 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.160 we make. They matter. And one of the things that 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.480 happened with the lockdowns, it's not just shutting society down 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.360 to keep this disease supposedly contained, although we find out 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.640 that doesn't work either under lockdowns, like the whole theory 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.360 behind it was wrong. Shutting down society also means that 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.640 people can't go to work. They also can't go out 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.480 to the store unless they're wearing a mask and walking 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.679 in the direction of the stickers on the floor. Hours 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.600 non essential businesses are shut down, and you start thinking 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.760 about this, What are some of the consequences of that. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.840 That means that if I'm living paycheck to paycheck and 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.840 suddenly my job, my business, my restaurant that I work at, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.840 is no longer allowed to be open, that means I 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.880 no longer have a paycheck coming in. And if you're 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.360 sitting there in COVID and you say you're a reporter 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.040 for the New York Times, you can do your job 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.400 at home on a laptop. You can watch Netflix, you 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.560 can get Uber Eats or door Dash or something to 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.400 deliver your meals, and life is actually pretty good. It's 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.400 not disrupted. But if you're just working, you know, paycheck 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.040 to paycheck and a service industry job, and you're basically 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.800 being told you're no longer essential, you're out of work, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.920 and maybe you have a rent payment or a car 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.000 payment due next month, well you're out of luck. This 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.440 is a real economic strain, and we saw it early 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.520 in the pandemic. The states that had the more restrictive 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:06.120 lockdown policies shot up in unemployment. You had very clear 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:10.040 state level measures of this that the worst the lockdown 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.480 state was the higher the unemployment rate, and states that 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.120 remained relatively open or that ended the lockdowns early on, 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.120 like Florida Will their economies rebounded and this has tangible 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.080 effects on the quality of life and the ability to 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.120 even get by for working class Americans, and those were 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.160 completely disregarded by Fauci and people I would call the 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.200 laptop class who could have the luxury of working from 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.840 home and ordering Uber eats and sitting there on their 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.319 laptops while the service industry suffered. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:46.120 Is there concrete data you can point to regarding we 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.480 did this and here's the results we see it. We 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.680 take a look at inflation right now, which certainly I 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.040 could have with you the conversation regarding whether or not 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.640 tariffs are still leading to that as an increase in 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.000 cost and keeping too much cash in the system. We 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.520 could take a look at specific job sectors and see 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.880 whether or not they've recovered and whether or not it 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.440 has been investment in AI that's actually been leading to 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.959 certain issues as opposed to damage done. We could take 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.360 a look at education outcomes as well. What can be 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:24.080 pointed to as this is the result of this shutdown 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.160 and here is the damage done, or maybe you can 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.000 tell me the other way, Well, here's a surprising success 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.560 that came from it, and if the damage is done, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:33.840 what does it take to get out of it? 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.800 Yeah? Yeah, I guess there's two direct implications of COVID, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.960 and one was the immediate I sort of mentioned, is 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.400 like the shutting down of the economy caused people to 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.840 lose their jobs. And yes, when we reopened those jobs 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.960 came back, but we were more or less operating in 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.480 an enforced recession for about a year during COVID. That 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.240 means people are worse off regardless. That means that not 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.880 only is it gnomic arm to disruption to their everyday lives, 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.360 and we saw that in the unemployment data. We saw 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.320 that in the economy essentially crashed in early twenty twenty 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.360 and it took a while to rebound. The second, the 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.080 longer term effect is what did we do in response? Well, 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.960 politicians of course panicked when the economy was shut down, 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.840 when people were closed out of their job, says well, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.280 we need to pass stimulus checks. We need to create 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.640 all these government programs to hold people over. If we're 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.840 going to lock them down, let's throw them a bone. Basically, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.800 so we had the succession of these stimulus checks that 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:40.400 were payouts essentially done on debt from the US government. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.440 There wasn't any revenue to pay for it, but it 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.560 was just to hold people over. And those stimulus checks 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.280 basically get absorbed into the macroeconomic situation of the federal 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.040 government and become one of the major impetuses in twenty 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.920 twenty two. So a couple of years later, in the 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.880 inflationary crisis, we dumped a bunch of money to the economy, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.240 and we pretended as if it was, you know, basically 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.080 a new big deal and it would take care of 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.280 itself and work its way through the system. Well, Joe 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.920 Biden mismanaged the inflationary crisis because it was all supposed 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.280 to be transitory and passed through. And here we are, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.040 you know, four years later, still dealing with the repercussions 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.000 of that, which traces back to the stimulus checks, traces 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.960 back to policies that we had to enact during COVID 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.120 as a result of the fact that we shut down 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:31.000 the entire economy. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.920 Phil Magnus he is senior fellow at the Independent Institute 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.840 David J. Throw Share and Political Economy, and his work 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.840 at AIRE, the American Institute for Economic Research, where he 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.200 was the fa Hiak at chair. I appreciate you taking 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.840 the time to be with us, give us the breakdown. 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.560 We'll talk economics in the future. I hope more to 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.960 get to keep it here. This is Tony kats today. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.240 Low key. So that's where we're at. Now we're at 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.720 we're at having a war with Iran, but it's you know, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.119 slow key, which is different than keeping it on the 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:12.520 down low. Maybe possibly, I mean, nobody knows what it means, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.000 so it can mean anything you wanted to mean. Tony Katz, 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.320 Tony Katz today, good to be with you. The president, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.719 as reported by the people at Axios, saying that you know, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.320 the war with Iran will continue, but it's gonna be 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.040 low key. We're just gonna keep the economic pressure on. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.320 We're not gonna worry about bombings and this and that 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.359 and what have you, and that's it now. Axios says 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.240 that Trump expresses no anger or frustration about the fact 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.000 that a deal hasn't been signed with Iran and they're 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.720 getting all tough about the strait. It was the Wall 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.760 Street Journal that reported that Trump's losing interest in the 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.800 war and Iran's wants hundreds of billions of dollars in 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.480 order to keep the strait open, and that Iran has 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.960 the advantage over Trump because Trump needs the oil prices down. 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.840 He doesn't have the stomach for this. Oh, he's getting 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.199 tired of this whole thing, and the Iranians believe that 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.800 they could just weight him out. I believe that the 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.040 Iranians do believe they can wait him out. They believe 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.399 they could wait anybody out, which is why no negotiation 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.920 with them will ever work, which is why one should 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.159 not negotiate with them, One should end them. Also, we 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.680 have it clear and understood that there is no way 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.240 to negotiate with You're dealing with the IRGC, which is 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.240 working in different factions, all to their own interests, not 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.239 too necessarily. And this is a solid point that I 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.560 saw somebody else Makeing them like that is a various 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.320 two to observation. It's not even to the Islamist point 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.160 of view, right although they want Israel, Gon and America 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.280 gone because those things are the things that keep them 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:49.040 from moving forward as pushing the caliphate, but rather they 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.200 are also things that keep them moving forward from being 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.560 the power in the region, which is why they want 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.840 a nuclear weapon. If you think Iran is a problem 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.399 now ran with a nuclear weapon is impossible. Anybody who 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.840 doesn't believe in ending this regime and stopping this threat 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.160 is in no way America. First, I say it about 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.040 Tucker Carlson, I say that about Thomas Massey. I say 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.600 that about Marjorie Taylor Green. They're laughable, But so is 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.280 the idea that a deal can be made. Can't be made. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:18.040 So if you want to use economic opportunity to in 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.400 sanctions to choke them off, it's the siege mentality, which 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.480 we discussed with a military analyst, Mike Lyons on this 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.879 show weeks ago. Fine, that's what we're doing. That's what 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.040 we're doing. Great, terrific and wonderful. But when they don't 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.280 give you're gonna have to throttle them. You got to 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.959 stop talking about a deal can be made, you know it. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:45.840 Can't stop saying. This is Tony Katz today, Else I 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:47.520 had wins, I will not vote Democrat. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.440 I'll switch over and I'll vote for a candidate with character, whoever. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.119 That might be. That's a Democrat talking. That's a Democrat 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.359 talking in Michigan. Just as the election was taking place, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.479 and Dula ed, I'm sorry. Dull rock on El sayed, oh, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.760 if you don't say his whole name, you can't to 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.239 keep his name out of your mouth. He's such a 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:14.600 pseudo tough guy. Oh what a punk Tony Katz. Tony 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:18.400 Katz today Abduled gives all the vibes of a guy 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.359 who peepes sitting down. He really does the tough guy stuff. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.400 He's been doing boring, He's done it a couple times now. 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.720 It's it just doesn't play at all. But this was 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.600 a Democrat saying he'll vote for He'll vote for someone else, 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.080 He'll vote for someone with character. And this perfectly brings 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.920 us into the midterms because as much as we may 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.280 like it or not like it, you know, it's sometimes 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.320 things happen whether we like them or not. We are 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:53.800 in the full on election mode, ladies and gentlemen. We 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:55.199 are in election season. 0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:58.200 My god. 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:06.320 Okay, it's happening on what's a procedure. That's it. We 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:12.400 are here, and it is horrifying. This is us from 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.880 now until November third. It's not my fault. Oh please, 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:18.400 don't get me wrong. I have plenty of other things 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.760 to talk about, plenty of other things to get to. 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.480 But we're in it. We are in it and One 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.080 of the things that I noticed was that the generic 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:36.119 ballot Democrats versus Republicans congressional generic ballot has Democrats up 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.800 by seven. Now that it's a little higher than where 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.280 they were, they were up plus four. I'm like, this 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:46.159 is nothing. Plus seven, you can see is something. And 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.720 the last five one, two, three, four, five, the last 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.760 five polls plus seven, plus eight, plus eleven, plus six 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.120 and plus six. Get rid of the plus eleven, get 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.920 rid of the plus six, right the bottom score, and 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.320 you're left with a plus seven advantage over the last 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.760 couple of weeks. I can't tell you why that is. 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.080 What I can tell you is this is happening while 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.080 conversation like that one you just heard. It is happening 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:21.080 where someone's like, I'm just gonna switch over. Then there's 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:27.080 the story of this guy. This was a Democrat, a 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:33.920 former chief counsel for the House Judiciary Democrats, and he 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.120 makes a video. His name is Julian Epstein. I don't 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:42.400 think there's any relation on the Epstein side. He is 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.919 a guy. I think he's in Michigan, and this is 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:47.840 his conversation. 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.400 I have been criticizing the Democratic Party for a long 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.879 time as being far to the left of the median voter. So, 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.720 just as a matter of practical politics and pragmatism, I 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:00.520 think the party has gone way too far left. But 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.920 I think the party has also lost its moral center. 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:07.440 I'm Julian Epstein. I'm a longtime Democrat. I was formerly 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:09.960 the chief counsel of the House Judiciary Committee and the 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.200 staff director of the House Oversight. 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:13.000 Committee for the Democrats. 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:19.480 I'm the former CEO of the consulting firm LMG, which represented, 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.800 amongst other people, Hillary Clinton for president. If this is 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:24.760 where the party's going, this is not a party I 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.080 want to have any anything to do with now. 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:30.720 I want to be clear that you could find Republicans 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:32.199 who are like I don't want anything to do with 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.600 Donald Trump. You can find that, of course it exists. 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:40.280