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Speaker 1: Live from Vall Heartland and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Cats today.

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Speaker 2: I have no issue with Maduro being removed from power,

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Speaker 2: absolutely none. This entire move done by the US military,

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Speaker 2: we can argue was unbelievably successful and well planned, well

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Speaker 2: thought out, well prepared.

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Speaker 1: I think that is a very very defensible.

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Speaker 2: Thing, that oil would now be sold in benefiting the

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Speaker 2: Venezuelan people.

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Speaker 1: I'm also okay with taking a look at the.

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Speaker 2: Oil that's been sanctioned and how we keep it out

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Speaker 2: of the hands of the Russians and the Chinese.

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Speaker 1: I'm down with that.

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Speaker 2: And of course this very idea of a rethink, if

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Speaker 2: not just a re implementation of the Monroe Doctrine and

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Speaker 2: the protection of the United States and of the Western hemisphere.

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Speaker 1: Is this what our new world requires?

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Speaker 2: These, I think are good things, smart things, and worthy things.

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Speaker 1: Tony Cats, Tony Cats today. Good to be here, Good

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Speaker 1: to be with you.

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Speaker 2: But how does one think that there is success in

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Speaker 2: Venezuela when Delsa Rodriguez is still there, that's Maduro's vice president.

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Speaker 2: Everybody else is still in place, And is the argument

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Speaker 2: being made from the administration that they're going to stay

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Speaker 2: Noah Rothman joins me. Right now, you know his work

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Speaker 2: from National Review, National Review dot com.

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Speaker 1: His latest piece at National Review.

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Speaker 2: Trump's approach to Venezuela lives down to the left's caricature

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Speaker 2: of the Iraq War, which is which is a perfectly

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Speaker 2: Noah Rothman thing to write, because it's it's it's not

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Speaker 2: only you saying we're handling something wrong, but we all

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Speaker 2: we in your view, we all misunderstood what happened in

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Speaker 2: the Iraq War, and there was more good there than not.

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Speaker 2: It's the caricature that we're fighting. Now you're gonna get disagreement,

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Speaker 2: maybe on both parts. But let's start where we start.

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Speaker 2: The taking out of Madureau as it was done by

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Speaker 2: the United States, a military your thoughts on.

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Speaker 1: That mission, and it's quote unquote.

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Speaker 3: Success incredibly successful, I mean not just successful, tactically successful,

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Speaker 3: strategically certainly warranted literally by an American court. Madua went

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Speaker 3: through the justice system, was sought by the US justice system.

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Speaker 3: Could not be a more legitimate exercise of law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: The legality of the strikes is a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a self looking ice cream cone. In the Trump administration's

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Speaker 3: estimation they were serving this warrant. Therefore, those who were

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Speaker 3: serving the warrant were under threat. Therefore offensive operations had

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Speaker 3: to be taken. Therefore those offensive operations were defensive in nature.

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Speaker 4: It's a theory.

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Speaker 3: But it's not one that I think would hold up

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Speaker 3: under any scrutiny. But that doesn't mean I don't like

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Speaker 3: the results. I certainly think that the operation itself was justified,

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Speaker 3: even though the regime is in place. It communicated to

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Speaker 3: our adversaries abroad Russia, China, Iran, q et cetera, the

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Speaker 3: efficacy of US special forces in combination with combined arms

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Speaker 3: and our air assets. It was a spectacularly successful operation.

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Speaker 3: Even China's you know, propaganda's mouthpeat the Global Times, you know,

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Speaker 3: and its piece covering this was said, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: horrible as the violation of international law, but subtextually it

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Speaker 3: read you gotta.

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Speaker 4: Hand it to them. It was a heck of an operation.

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Speaker 3: So it's the sort of thing that conveys to our

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Speaker 3: adversaries that we are a potent force not to be

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Speaker 3: messed with, contrary to a lot of the Dowur conversations

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Speaker 3: inside the United States.

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Speaker 1: And I think that matters.

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Speaker 2: I think that that is that is a piece of

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Speaker 2: this that is left out when when the Israelis hit has.

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Speaker 1: Blowed with the page Er attack.

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Speaker 2: Certainly for the Israelis one could argue, you never want

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Speaker 2: to let your adversary know what exactly you're capable of

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Speaker 2: what it is that you can do. And then the

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Speaker 2: other side of it, Oh my gosh, look at what

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Speaker 2: the Israelis just did here.

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Speaker 1: It kind of sets to hey, maybe I don't want

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Speaker 1: to mess with them. Is there in your view?

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Speaker 2: Was is there a little bit or a lot of

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Speaker 2: bit of that that this was we really can get

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Speaker 2: anywhere anytime, and you're not even going to see us coming.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it, not just our capabilities when it

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Speaker 3: comes to hard power assets, traditional hard power assets things

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Speaker 3: that blow stuff up, but our cyber elements were at

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Speaker 3: play here. We shut off the electricity in Venezuela via

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Speaker 3: cyber operations in ways that we're pretty impressive, and our

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Speaker 3: clandestine assets, I think was actually something that also communicated

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Speaker 3: to our adversaries a very important message. There's been a

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Speaker 3: lot of reporting inside the United States that while American

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Speaker 3: signals intelligence intercepts are bar none the world standard, we

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Speaker 3: can intercept communications electronically wherever and anywhere we want, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of our allies depend on our signals intercepts capabilities,

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Speaker 3: but our human intelligence capabilities, our capacity to develop clandestine assets,

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Speaker 3: flit assets on the ground in places where we need

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Speaker 3: human intelligence, that has been in doubt for some time.

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Speaker 3: We have been can We are considered an unreliable friend

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Speaker 3: for many reasons that are perfectly valid. But we have

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Speaker 3: information that's publicly reported now that we were developing intelligence

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Speaker 3: sources close to, indeed inside Cuban intelligence which had surrounded

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Speaker 3: Madurea with his security team and amateur security team and

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Speaker 3: generally penetrated the people very as close as possible to

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Speaker 3: the regime here, which sends a signal to other anti

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Speaker 3: American regimes out there that we can get close to

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Speaker 3: you too, all very very valuable. However, how we get

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Speaker 3: to the However, Yeah, there's this very bizarre conspiracy of

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Speaker 3: shared interests abroad between Trump's critics and the president's allies

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Speaker 3: and the president himself, all of whom are devoted to

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Speaker 3: calling this operation a regime change operation.

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Speaker 4: It was not.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we need to get into. Talking to

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Speaker 1: Noah Roffman.

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Speaker 2: Of National Review, and this is the point of your

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Speaker 2: piece and I had discussed this on my morning show,

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Speaker 2: and I bring it here. If you still have Delse Rodriguez,

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Speaker 2: the vice president now running the show, if you still

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Speaker 2: have the rest of the Maduro regime in place, it's

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Speaker 2: just like Nicholas Maduro is on some kind of extended vacation,

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Speaker 2: but he's still the CEO. I mean, that's even we're

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Speaker 2: taking the oil, we're selling the oil. We're going to

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Speaker 2: give the profits part of the prophets, if not half,

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Speaker 2: the profits of not.

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Speaker 1: More than that to the Venezuelans.

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Speaker 2: Well, it only matters that the Venezuelan people can stop

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Speaker 2: eating pigeons and actually turn on the lights in their house. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a there's a real disconnect between this unbelievable operation

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Speaker 2: and the result that one would think, or at least

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Speaker 2: the Venezuelan people, from their celebration would think, which is

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Speaker 2: the better day?

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Speaker 1: Is ahead? Trump's saying It's not. This is just we

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Speaker 1: just got rid of a guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my wife, you know, just as a personal note,

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Speaker 3: my wife's dear friend is a Venezuelan ex pat. She

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Speaker 3: grew up with her and her mother was, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the very celebratory mood, was making tentative plans to

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Speaker 3: move back, and I had to say, why the regime

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Speaker 3: is in place. Nothing has changed. This was never the

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Maduro regime. It was the Hugo Chavez regime, establishing

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Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine, survived the two thousand and two

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Speaker 3: coup in which it purged all dissenting elements and really

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Speaker 3: established the socialist despotism that it became.

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Speaker 4: Nicholas Maduro was like Brezhnev.

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Speaker 3: He was in the right place at the right time

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Speaker 3: when Hugo Chavez died in twenty thirteen. He was a

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Speaker 3: bus driver. He was a union thug. He was not

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Speaker 3: never the power behind this regime. He was an avatar

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Speaker 3: of it. And the regime, as you said, is largely

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Speaker 3: in place. Delveza Rodriguez, one of Maduro's deputies, has blood

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Speaker 3: on her hands, as implicated in the regime's worst crimes.

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Speaker 3: More than that, the ostado called Cabello, who was in

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Speaker 3: charge of the military and in political apparatus. The intelligence

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Speaker 3: apparatus is still in place. The regime is still as

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Speaker 3: dependent as ever on the militias, the collectivos, as well

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Speaker 3: as the drug cartels for domestic legitimacy. It is as

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Speaker 3: dependent as ever on anti American powers abroad for support

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Speaker 3: overseas Iran, Cuba, Russia, China. It hasn't changed its character

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Speaker 3: in any appreciable way, save for the fact that it's

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Speaker 3: surrendered to the United States one tanker which has thirty

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Speaker 3: to fifty I think, yeahon million mares of crude sour crude,

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Speaker 3: which is by no means the highest huighest quality, and

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Speaker 3: that's approximately what the United States produces domestically in about

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Speaker 3: three days of production. And they've released a couple of

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Speaker 3: political prisoners five last I checked, which is great, which

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Speaker 3: is good, and the Trump administration deserves credit for leaning

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Speaker 3: on Karakas to do that. But that's just a drop

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Speaker 3: in the barrel, and it's not a chape and change

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Speaker 3: in the character of the regime. It's a sap with

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Speaker 3: a gun pointed to their head. Again, which is great.

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Speaker 3: And the administration's work is not over. It has been

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Speaker 3: ongoing and attempts to seize these, for example, the ghost

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Speaker 3: fleet ships that are transporting illicit weapons and oil to

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Speaker 3: and from Russia and Iran. That's all valuable, but it

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Speaker 3: does it does demonstrate why the Venezuelands are correct in

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Speaker 3: public reports to temper their enthusiasm, their initial enthusiasm for

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Speaker 3: what they believed because everybody was telling them that it

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Speaker 3: was regime change. When it turns out that it's not

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Speaker 3: that we could just be in the Trump administrations. Who

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Speaker 3: knows where the Trump administration is going with this. Their

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Speaker 3: statements are so conflicting. I don't think they have a strategy.

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Speaker 3: So let's could end up with something akin to a

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Speaker 3: Turkey or a Saudi Arabian the Western Hemisphere and authoritarian

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Speaker 3: regime that we can nevertheless work with.

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Speaker 2: So first, there's a piece in the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 2: about the ghost ships and how this oil is maneuvered.

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Speaker 2: It's a very interesting piece, is a kind of a

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Speaker 2: primer for exactly what's going on and how many of

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Speaker 2: these ships that are out there, and you can find

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Speaker 2: that at Tony Kats dot com.

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Speaker 1: But it isn't regime change.

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Speaker 2: And so now you have these two very unique conversations,

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Speaker 2: which is the no More Forever Wars Donald Trump and

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Speaker 2: the donro doctrine Trump and the Monroe doctrine. The Western

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Speaker 2: Hemisphere belongs to us, and we're going to protect it.

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Speaker 2: Right now, as you have now laid this out, these

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Speaker 2: two things cannot exist. A George divided against itself cannot stand,

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Speaker 2: said Seinfeld. That's but I don't think I'm wrong. I

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Speaker 2: think I'm staring at this properly. These two things are

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Speaker 2: in conflict. What wins out, what should win out?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just not the nineteenth century anymore. There's no

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Speaker 3: way for you to execute the kind of hemispheric operation

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Speaker 3: in which you're attempting to area deny our adversaries abroad

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Speaker 3: without conflicting conflicting with our adversaries abroad in their hemisphere,

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Speaker 3: in part because the United States is positioned all over

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Speaker 3: the planet Earth and has been since World War Two,

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Speaker 3: and rolling that back is not something that you can

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Speaker 3: simply decree. And if you were to try to actually

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Speaker 3: actively withdraw retrench from our interests abroad, you would create

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Speaker 3: a lot more chaos than we've seen so far because

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Speaker 3: they're not actually doing that.

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Speaker 4: They talk a big game, but they're not actually doing that.

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Speaker 3: And to get to the peace about Iraq, the extent

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Speaker 3: to which the President seems inclined in my view, to

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Speaker 3: live down to the left smiths about the Iraq War,

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Speaker 3: it's because he talks about this again sort of in

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Speaker 3: a delusional way, as though we've executed regime change. He says,

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Speaker 3: we're there, We're going to run the country. We are

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Speaker 3: in charge now. These are quotes that he has said.

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Speaker 3: And in New York Times he was asked how long

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Speaker 3: we are going to be the political overlords of Venezuela,

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Speaker 3: and he says pretty much indefinitely for a very long time,

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Speaker 3: which is just an outlook divorced from reality, but it

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Speaker 3: does convey an element of imperialism, a semi colonialist enterprise

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Speaker 3: that he's trying to incept here, and it is entirely

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Speaker 3: for in his estimation, commercial benefits that we are going

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Speaker 3: to take the oil, he says this very plainly, will

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Speaker 3: take the commodities that Venezuela very has mismanaged. It used

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Speaker 3: to produce more than two thirds the amount of oil

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Speaker 3: that it produces today. Its oil industry essentially exists to

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Speaker 3: keep the regime in a stasis level state of comfort,

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Speaker 3: not for the Venezuelan people, and it would take a

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Speaker 3: lot to redevelop that industry.

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Speaker 4: But it's sort of like.

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Speaker 3: It kind of sounds exactly like how the left characterized

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Speaker 3: the Iraq War, which was always wrong.

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Speaker 4: The left characterization of.

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Speaker 3: The Iraq War was that it was a war for oil,

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Speaker 3: blood for oil, it was an imperialist, colonialist enterprise.

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Speaker 4: And it was never those things. It was just the

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Speaker 4: opposite of those things.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the Bush administration was so self conscious over

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Speaker 3: the administrator or his left wing critics attacks on that

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Speaker 3: enterprise that it actually kind of hindered the operation because

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Speaker 3: he would play into that. We didn't follow the Powell

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Speaker 3: doctrine deploying overwhelming force because the Bush administration was afraid

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Speaker 3: that the footprint would look so large that it would

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Speaker 3: look like an imperialist enterprise. He got a lot of

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Speaker 3: criticism for pushing to have national elections in Iraq in

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Speaker 3: January two thousand and five. It was not ready. The

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Speaker 3: insurgency was already blooming, Fallujah had just fallen. He was

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Speaker 3: getting a ton of criticism for that, but the Bush

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Speaker 3: administration forged ahead. Why because he wanted to assuage those

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Speaker 3: who were concerned that the United States was running Iraq

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Speaker 3: like it was a satrap and Paul Bremmers In two

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Speaker 3: September two thousand and three, Paul Bremmer's Occupational Authority privatized

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Speaker 3: the Soviet style oil industry in Iraq, not so that

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Speaker 3: we could pilfer it and take the proceeds so that

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Speaker 3: Iraq could stand up its own oil industry and fund

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Speaker 3: of government, which by two thousand and five funded the

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Speaker 3: government to the tune of ninety four percent. It was

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Speaker 3: basically the sole revenue source on which the Iraq regime

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Speaker 3: managed to survive. The Iraqi government survived so and by

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Speaker 3: the way, I linked to this piece, which is very

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Speaker 3: funny and Jacobins as far Left magazine.

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Speaker 4: So by the time it was clear that the.

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Speaker 3: United States was not actually pilfering Iraqi oil this piece,

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Speaker 3: rather than confront its own misleading priors said, well, it's.

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Speaker 4: Clear that this was a war for oil. The Bush

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Speaker 4: just messed it up.

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Speaker 3: Not that I was wrong all along, right, but that

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Speaker 3: Bush probably just screwed it up, like he screws up everything.

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Speaker 2: By the way, great words satrap, which is about having

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Speaker 2: like a subordinate ruler.

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Speaker 1: I mean the sometimes I.

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Speaker 2: Just enjoy your vocabulary talking to Noah Rothman from National

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Speaker 2: Review before.

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Speaker 1: I let you go.

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Speaker 2: So, what we're looking at from Trump's as a guy

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Speaker 2: who sees things as transactional in almost all regards, as

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Speaker 2: long as we can get the oil, whatever happens there

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Speaker 2: happens there. As long as we can keep Shina in

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Speaker 2: Russia out, that's enough a Monroe doctrine for us.

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Speaker 1: We don't need to do anything else.

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Speaker 2: The problem there is that it doesn't satisfy I think

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Speaker 2: in American populace that would say out loud, wait, we're

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Speaker 2: going to leave that regime in control.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it also sacrifices our interests. I mean, if you

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Speaker 3: can't sort of a Turing test thing here, the international

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Speaker 3: environment is a narcic hard power. Military power is what

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Speaker 3: moves the wheels of history. Granted, I've been saying that

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Speaker 3: since I've been talking to about international affairs, since I

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Speaker 3: was a graduate student, arguing with people about the nature

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Speaker 3: of soft power. Soft power, diplomatic power, international institutions are

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Speaker 3: really fictions that are buttressed by hard power.

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Speaker 4: This has been my position forever.

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Speaker 3: But I also understand that soft power exists, and if

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Speaker 3: you can't tell me what soft power is and what

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Speaker 3: it does or what it's supposed to do, I don't

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Speaker 3: trust you to actually navigate the environment. And soft power

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Speaker 3: does matter insofar as it contributes to the desire of

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Speaker 3: people who are living in captive nations to yearn for freedom,

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Speaker 3: to celebrate liberty an individual and individual agency, and.

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Speaker 1: That's a story.

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Speaker 3: And the United States is predicated on the notion that

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Speaker 3: power is justly derived from the consent of the governed,

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Speaker 3: and that does provide us with some benefits. And the

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Speaker 3: President himself acknowledges that from time to time, as we

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Speaker 3: have seen in Iran, the President has adopted some thing

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Speaker 3: like a neo.

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Speaker 4: Con position on steroids.

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Speaker 3: When it comes to the Iranian protests, he is now

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Speaker 3: sayings and seems really inclined to follow through with it,

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Speaker 3: that if the Iranian regime were to violently suppress the

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Speaker 3: demonstrations that are represent at this point in existential threat

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Speaker 3: to the stability of that regime, that he would intervene

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Speaker 3: in a humanitarian way on their behalf.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of neocons back even in two thousand and five who

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Speaker 3: would have agreed with that position. It's essentially it's akin

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Speaker 3: to a Samantha power right to protect doctrine, which would

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Speaker 3: get the UNITEDS to which I oppose because it would

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Speaker 3: get the United States involved in conflicts where it didn't

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Speaker 3: have any material or strategic interests. But we certainly do

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Speaker 3: have material and strategic interests in Iran, in the Middle

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Speaker 3: East in particular. This is the most evil regime on

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Speaker 3: the planet Earth in my view. It has fueled conflicts

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Speaker 3: for the better part of a half century. It has

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Speaker 3: killed and targeted Americans on American soil. It's an enemy

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Speaker 3: of the United States, and the day that it has

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Speaker 3: gone will be a better day for the United States

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Speaker 3: than the world. Great like that, But the administration and

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Speaker 3: the President doesn't really want to make the case for it.

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Speaker 4: They're sort of back to Iraq.

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Speaker 3: They're sort of predicated on this origin myth that the

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Speaker 3: Maga movement exists in opposition to the Bush administration's foreign policy,

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Speaker 3: and yet it is executing in Venezuela again a cartoonish, caricature,

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Speaker 3: left wing vision of what George W. Bush's foreign policy was,

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Speaker 3: while at the same time rehabilitating the instincts, at least

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Speaker 3: in Iran and perhaps nowhere else, but at least in Iran,

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Speaker 3: that the world will be a better place when Iranians

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Speaker 3: manage to achieve the full flourishing of their human desire

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Speaker 3: for liberty and freedom. That could not be a more Bushian.

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Speaker 3: It belongs in the two thousand and five Inaugural Address

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Speaker 3: it is as a bushy and a foreign policy of

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Speaker 3: approach as you can get.

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Speaker 2: His name is Noah Rothman. Find his work at National

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Speaker 2: Review dot com. Noah, I appreciate you taking the time

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Speaker 2: to be with us. More is coming up on Tony Katz.

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Speaker 2: This is Tony Kats Today. So Miami is able to

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Speaker 2: get past Old miss in a really incredible game the

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Speaker 2: Fiesta Bowl, and now it's just a question of whether

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Speaker 2: or not the Indiana Hoosiers are going to join them.

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Speaker 2: Tony Katz, Tony Kats Today. You guys know, I broadcast

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Speaker 2: out of Indiana, and I did not go to IU

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Speaker 2: or anything like that, but I live here and IU

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Speaker 2: basketball was always the thing. And the fact that football

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Speaker 2: is this good under coach Signetty has this place out

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Speaker 2: of control nuts, It has it nuts.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Oregon is easy to get pasted.

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Speaker 2: I know they did it before. I'm just I just

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Speaker 2: don't think it's written on the win. But of course

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Speaker 2: it's what you want because for the Hoosiers and understanding

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Speaker 2: this team to go and have to play in Miami,

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Speaker 2: because that's what the National Championship is against Miami.

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Speaker 1: You mean, it's like a home game. And now the

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Speaker 1: IU Hoosiers will think of themselves as the underdogs.

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Speaker 2: The Hoosiers love thinking of themselves as underdogs like that.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of thing that moves and motivates them.

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Speaker 1: So I look at that Miami game.

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Speaker 2: Miami has been unbelievably surprising, as that's the game where

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Speaker 2: I think i U has its best shot. Man, I

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Speaker 2: do think they can beat Oregon. It's just not easy, noney,

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Speaker 2: That is just not an easy team. That said, this

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Speaker 2: place is going nuts, and if they go to a championship,

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Speaker 2: the state of Indiana is going to go crazy crazy.

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Speaker 1: Hope what happens. I'm Tony Katz.

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Speaker 2: So the jobs report comes out and it's less than

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Speaker 2: the expectation, But then again, it's Midston's. It has been

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Speaker 2: so long since we've seen a job's report that comes

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Speaker 2: out on time, and this one is a yes, out

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Speaker 2: on time. We're like, my gosh, what do we do

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Speaker 2: with this information? Well, the market seems to not know

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Speaker 2: what to do with this information. Maybe less jobs means

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Speaker 2: we need to cut more rates so we can spur

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Speaker 2: this economy. Maybe less jobs means we're not manufacturing anything,

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Speaker 2: and that in and of itself is a problem. Tony Katz,

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Speaker 2: Tony Katz today, good to be with you. Doctor Mattwill

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Speaker 2: joins me economist at the University of Indianapolis. Fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: instead of seventy six thousand. The November jobs report got

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Speaker 2: revised downward to fifty six thousand, and the unemployment rate

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Speaker 2: falls to four point four percent. What do I care about?

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Speaker 2: What do I not care about?

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Speaker 5: Oh gosh, this is the most fascinating report I know.

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Speaker 5: On the headline looks like it's blah, but it's not. Okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: we only add a fifty thousand jobs, but if you

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Speaker 5: dig into the details, there's some very interesting parts here.

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Speaker 5: We lost eight thousand jobs in manufacturing, We lost twenty

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Speaker 5: one thousand jobs in goods productions, and we lost twenty

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Speaker 5: five thousand jobs in retail. That's the bad side. On

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Speaker 5: the good side, we added fifty eight thousand private jobs

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Speaker 5: in healthcare government that's not good. And leisure and hospitality

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Speaker 5: forty seven thousand. But the most important part of this

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Speaker 5: is why why was this such a low number? Why

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Speaker 5: was fifty thousand? Why was fifty six thousand revised down?

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Speaker 5: It's actually for two good reasons. I know this sounds weird,

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Speaker 5: productivity and a broad based recovery. These two things are

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Speaker 5: happening Tony. We saw yesterday the productivity report came out.

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Speaker 5: Productivity increased four point nine percent. That is the amount

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Speaker 5: that you and I produced per hour of labor, how

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Speaker 5: much we can produce as workers. That is three hundred

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Speaker 5: percent higher than last year. We are blowing it out

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Speaker 5: of the water in this economy as far as productivity

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Speaker 5: driven by you know the answer to this, AI, And

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Speaker 5: that's why the employment rate is not that good. That's

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Speaker 5: why we aren't adding the number of jobs. Because AI

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Speaker 5: is making us a much more productive economy. And let

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Speaker 5: me finish my whole thing here. The broad based economy

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Speaker 5: recovery is here. We saw that and I've talked about

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Speaker 5: this on the show before. The S and P went

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Speaker 5: up eighteen percent last year. It wasn't driven by the

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Speaker 5: MAC seven for the first time. Yes, they were hired,

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Speaker 5: they were twenty eight percent. But the S and P

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Speaker 5: four ninety three was still up eleven percent last year.

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Speaker 5: We have a broad based recovery. That is a good thing.

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Speaker 5: AI is making us more productive. So there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of good things. There is some bad parts, but there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of good in this report.

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Speaker 2: Talking to doctor Matt Will, economists at the University of Indianapolis,

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Speaker 2: recovery is everything because not only is recovery good for

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Speaker 2: the economy large, but that's a conversation about the midterms.

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Speaker 2: That's a conversation about how this information is utilized by

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Speaker 2: parties when they're trying to sell America on whether or

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Speaker 2: not they should get votes.

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Speaker 1: A recovery is a good thing. Explain it to me.

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Speaker 5: Okay, let me explain the recovery is not a good thing.

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Speaker 2: I know, using confusing, man. You just said this is

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Speaker 2: the good part of the report.

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Speaker 5: The report's good because of the productivity, because they brought

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Speaker 5: based recovery. But you said the midterms, And let me

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Speaker 5: tell you why it's a bad report for the midterms,

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Speaker 5: because the one area that's super weak in this is

437
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 5: manufacturing goods production. These are the two areas that are

438
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 5: massively down in the report. And they're down.

439
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: Why.

440
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm a professor. I have to give a test, Tony.

441
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 5: They're down because of one word. And what's the reason.

442
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: Well, I thought that was ai. I thought that's the

443
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 1: answer to everything.

444
00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 5: Manufacturing is down because of tariffs. Manufacturing and goods productuction

445
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 5: are down because of tariffs. The terriffts are shrinking the

446
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 5: economy relative to manufacturing. Broad based recovery fantastic Trump. I've

447
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 5: talked about this many times. Trump's his own worst enemy.

448
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 5: He's doing everything right when it comes to the economy

449
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 5: except for tariffs. Terrorifts are dragging this economy down. GDP

450
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 5: is up, the employment report looks good. Productivity is doing great,

451
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: the broad based recovery is here. But the tariffs are

452
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 5: hurting manufacturing and that's going to hurt it because those

453
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 5: are jobs. Those are people in factories that are losing

454
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 5: their jobs. They're not working, and they vote, and that's

455
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 5: what's going to hurt him. So as all the good

456
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 5: things in this report are going to be counteracted by

457
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 5: the fact that the bad part of it is the

458
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 5: tariffs are hurting manufacturing.

459
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that isn't necessarily how it's going to play

460
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: in a midterm.

461
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: You could argue that the tariffs.

462
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: Overall are a giant painting the butt, which I agree

463
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: with that it makes Americans.

464
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: Pay more for things, and I agree with that too.

465
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 2: But if there is a conversation that the White House

466
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: can have about broad based recovery, that's a win.

467
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: That's a plus. When you say recovery, give me.

468
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: The places that I should be looking, others should be

469
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: looking that we actually see the tangible results.

470
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: We see the recovery in action.

471
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 5: Well, okay, when I say the recovery profits, So profits

472
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 5: are up across the board for companies. That's why the

473
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 5: market is up. The profits are up because costs are down.

474
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 5: Why are costs down? Because AI companies are more efficient.

475
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 5: We're able to do more with fewer people. That's why

476
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 5: I go back to the harming it politically. Now I

477
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 5: am not the political guide. I will defer to you

478
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 5: on that. But from my standpoint, all this good news,

479
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 5: which is more productivity, more profits, expanding private economy, it's

480
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 5: coming at a cost. And what's the cost people? The

481
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 5: AI and the increase in productivity is reducing the amount

482
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 5: of labor that we need. The tariffs are reducing the

483
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 5: amount of labor that we need. So this report line

484
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 5: is not a good headline, but underneath it I see

485
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 5: good things for the economies. Kind of like when the

486
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 5: Internet came out, and when computers came out, we were

487
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 5: oh no, no more typewriters, oh no, less manual labor.

488
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 5: Well that was good in the long term. AI is

489
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 5: going to be good in the long term, but it's

490
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 5: going to cause a short term pain to people, and

491
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 5: people vote.

492
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: Talking to doctor Matt Will economists at the University of Indianapolis,

493
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 2: I've argued that as long as that gets explained, you

494
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: can get people on your side. People want to be

495
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: in the fight. They don't want to have just things

496
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 2: happen to them. They want to be part of something

497
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: that's going to create the better opportunity for them, for

498
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: their kids, et cetera. The other part of this was

499
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: how the market responded and reacted and whether.

500
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: Or not the markets would go up or down in

501
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: this field.

502
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: That you know, if you've got less jobs than you thought,

503
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: this could be a way to pressure Jerown Powell into

504
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: more rape cuts. Now the pressure has been on ron

505
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Pal for a year and a half to get more

506
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: rate cuts, they haven't necessarily come. Does this signal to

507
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: the Federal Reserve this is a good time to cut

508
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: a quarter point or more.

509
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 5: No, absolutely not, because we have a very robust GDP

510
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 5: at the moment. You've talked about it on the show.

511
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 5: I've mentioned it. This GDP is good, so we don't

512
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 5: have a problem there, and we're technically still at full employment.

513
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 5: Even though the jobs number is getting worse, it's not

514
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 5: as good as it should be. It's still technically within

515
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 5: a range of what we call full employment. So the

516
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 5: two mandates, which is price stability and employment. Again I'm

517
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 5: not a fan of the employment part is not a problem.

518
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 5: So there's no reason to cut rates for employment purposes.

519
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 5: But there is a reason to keep rates higher because

520
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 5: of inflation. And we've seen inflation. It's still there. It's

521
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 5: in the PMI report and the CPI report and the

522
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 5: PPI report. We still have inflation. It's not at two

523
00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 5: percent yet.

524
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: You should be never mind never mind the reports for

525
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: a second gold at forty four and eighty four dollars

526
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: an ounce, silver at seventy nine dollars and twenty two

527
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: cents an ounce. Of course that can change is when

528
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: people hear this weather, it's podcast or anything else. The

529
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: point is we've got silver that has cossed eighty dollars

530
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: an ounce. That isn't happening because people think, oh, silver

531
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: is the future. It's the hedge conversation. So this tells

532
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: me that the market still does believe that inflation is there.

533
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 5: You're correct. You you added data to exactly my point,

534
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 5: which is inflation isn't dead. Silver and gold are perfect

535
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: indicators of that. In addition to the data the nerdy

536
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 5: data points I just gave to you, you gave a

537
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: real hands on example of what people see every day

538
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: that inflation is here and the said needs to fight inflation.

539
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 5: Now will they fight it. We'll see what the next

540
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: SED chairman does. But if it's Kevin Walsh, I'm optimistic

541
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 5: he's going to do the right job really quick.

542
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: Before I let you go talking to doctor Matt Well,

543
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: economist at the University of Indianapolis, and maybe you're not

544
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: totally up on this. The President has said he wants

545
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: to help people with housing and the idea is to

546
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 2: buy mortgage loans, like two hundred billion dollars in the

547
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: purchasing of of of mortgage loans, and that's going to

548
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: now create a great opportunity to home buying. I have

549
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: not been able to make any sense of this whatsoever.

550
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: And this just took place yesterday. I don't think everybody

551
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: has has seen it yet. The question is is there

552
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: something the government can be doing about buying mortgages that

553
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: is going to bring down the cost of buying a home.

554
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 5: No, no, no, oh, tony. This is this is where

555
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 5: I said. Trump is in the in the boxing ring

556
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 5: with himself. He's winning, he's losing. He's winning, he's losing.

557
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: And this is the losing part of it. To He announced,

558
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: for people that aren't aware of it, two hundred billion

559
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 5: dollars that the government is going to purchase of mortgages.

560
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 5: That's what they did during the quantitative easing. That's what

561
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 5: they did in the too Big to Fail crisis. The

562
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 5: government stepped in and bought mortgages to produce the economy.

563
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 5: That's the opposite that will cause inflation. We need the

564
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: government to be selling all the mortgages that they own.

565
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 5: The government is the largest owner of mortgages at the

566
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 5: moment it started in two thousand and nine. That's wrong.

567
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 5: He's got the wrong attitude on this. He's got to

568
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 5: not get in the home buying business. He can't get

569
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 5: into the denying companies to invest in homes business, which

570
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: he mentioned he was to regulate the salary of executives,

571
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: the payments that they make to their employees and to

572
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 5: their shareholders. This, you know, I don't know what happens

573
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: Trump wakes up on one side of the bed and

574
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 5: he's awesome. He wakes up on the other side of

575
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 5: the bed and he's a disaster. I can't figure it out.

576
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: That is doctor Matt Will, economists at the University of Indianapolis.

577
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: Dr Matt Will on the Twitter X.

578
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: If you want to follow them there, I appreciate you,

579
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: sir as always more coming up. I'm Tony Katz and

580
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: this is Tony Katz Today. Find everything at Tony kats

581
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: dot com. Something to note as we watch all of

582
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: these people engaged in their protests, and I'm not just

583
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: talking about the protests about ICE, which are not protests.

584
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: The left is trying to kill members of ICE. The

585
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: left is only interested in destruction. They want to set

586
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: things on fire. They want George Floyd two point zero.

587
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: Then they want George Floyd three point zero. This is

588
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: who they are, this is what they want. Tony Katz,

589
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: Tony Katz Today, good to be with you. I'm not

590
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: going to listen to them, and I don't think you

591
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: should either. I mean, they're gonna say things. We know

592
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: what's what they want to call people fascists, They want

593
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: to call people authoritarians. You get people like Rachel Maddow

594
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: going on to Jimmy Kimmel's show, Dear Lord, Jimmy Kimmel

595
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: still has a show, and you get conversations out there

596
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: that go on like this. I know you highlight these

597
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: peaceful protests on your show regularly.

598
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: Do you do any good? Do you think that anything

599
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: comes from them?

600
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 5: Yes? You do?

601
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.

602
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 6: I mean, in political science terms, there's what's called the

603
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 6: three point five percent role, which is that if you

604
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 6: look at authoritarian regimes of various kinds all over the

605
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 6: world over the last century, once you have three and

606
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 6: a half percent of a population protesting non violently against

607
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 6: a dictator or an authoritarian, that is essentially an unstoppable force.

608
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: That is the news media and the culture media telling

609
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: you that the person you may have elected, Donald Trump

610
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: and you are authoritarians and dictators and you have to

611
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: be stopped. That only gets stopped with violence. And these

612
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: people feel good about it when they ram ICE agents.

613
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: They feel good about it. When they shoot at ICE agents.

614
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: They feel good about it. When they assassinate Charlie Kirk.

615
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: They feel good about it. When they almost assassinate Donald Trump.

616
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: Oh if he had only turned his head a little

617
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: bit faster or a little bit slower, whatever it is

618
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 2: they say. I don't know what violent people say, but

619
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: it's something like that. Always remember that the thing that

620
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: they say that they're doing isn't the thing.

621
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: That they're doing.

622
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: And allow me to give you an example. And I'm

623
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: not the first person to come up with this example,

624
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: but I think it's good that others have done it. First,

625
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: All those people who are on the street saying that

626
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: Israel is involved in a genocide, and Israel is oppressing

627
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: the people in Gaza, and free.

628
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: Palestine, where are they for the Iranian people?

629
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 2: Where are the protests in favor of the Iranian people

630
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: throwing off the shackles of a true authoritarian regime, a

631
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: hellscape wherever nineteen hundred people were executed by the mothers,

632
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: the hardliners and the clerics.

633
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: Where are they?

634
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: Where are those people marching to the streets of New York,

635
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: LA and Chicago and name your city, saying free the

636
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: people of Iran, my brothers and sisters in Iran, free

637
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: them little The answer is they're nowhere. And why are

638
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: they nowhere? Because they never cared about the quote unquote

639
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: Palestinian people.

640
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: They only wanted Jews dead.

641
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: They wanted to destroy Israel, which will then make it

642
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: easier and allows them to move on to destroy America.

643
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: It's always been the one two punch. We have discussed

644
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: this numerous times. How many more ways do you need

645
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: to see it? This is who they are and I

646
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: get it. It sucks and it's dangerous.

647
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: And you've heard me say this a million times. I

648
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: don't lie. I don't lie for anything. The only way

649
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: out is through. That's it.

650
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 2: The only way out is through. Because this is not

651
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: stopping anytime soon. Now, there are things we can do

652
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: to help curtail it. You got to stop sending your

653
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: kids to schools that engage and promote this nonsense.

654
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: I don't think that means every person has to stop sending.

655
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: Their kid to a public school, although I oppose public

656
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Speaker 2: schools and I send my kids to public schools. In

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Speaker 2: the end, if the teachers' union is in charge and

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Speaker 2: not the actual student and the parents, it's an untenable situation.

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Speaker 2: And anything involving the NEA or the American Federation and teachers, Nope,

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Speaker 2: you can't have it. And you can't send your kids

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Speaker 2: to colleges that teach this nonsense and promote this nonsense

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Speaker 2: and that you decide where your money goes. If a

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Speaker 2: kid doesn't like it, tell them too bad, you're saving

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Speaker 2: their life.

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Speaker 1: Then we have to stay away from the.

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Speaker 2: Cultural things like Kimmel and his sponsors that promote this violence.

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Speaker 2: And you got to starve them economically. And you say

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Speaker 2: to me, Tony, those are small.

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Speaker 1: Things, yes, but they're the start to think it's a

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Speaker 1: I'll have more on this.

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Speaker 2: Find everything at Tonycotts dot com Monday.

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Speaker 1: Everyone, take care,