1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,400 Speaker 1: Well, this is step one. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 2: The President and Congress has talked multiple times what the 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 2: next step might be. We have been in briefed or 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 2: we've been in briefings, we've been in classified settings. This 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: is literally the first step to put more pressure on 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: Russia if we need to. 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: I believe we probably will. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: I don't think putin and someone is going to pay 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: attention the first time his hand had slapped. I think 10 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: you're going to see this get ratcheted up farther and 11 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: farther to the point to where either we're going to 12 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: bring them to their knees economically, or they're going to 13 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 2: decide that fighting in Ukraine isn't worth it. At the 14 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 2: same time, I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing 15 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: us give the accessibility to new weapons for Europe to 16 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: buy for Ukraine to be able to fight against Russia 17 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: and their aggression in Ukraine. As I said, Jake, this 18 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: is just the first step. But this is the first 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: step of a lot of options we have on the table. 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: This is about sanctions on oil. 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: This coming from the Trump administration yesterday via the Treasury 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 3: Secretary Scott Besson, Tony Katz, Tony Kats today. 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Good to be with you. 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: The move is to go up against the Kremlin war machine. 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 3: That's what that's what Scott Bessont referred to it as 26 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 3: the Kremlin war machine. And in the words of Scott 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: Bessens himself, let me see if I can get that 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: to you in. 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: Validity to it. And I wondered if you wanted to comment. 30 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 3: I know your meeting with the Chinese very soon, so. 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 4: Larry, good to be back with you. I'm leaving this evening. 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 4: Jamison Griers already on his way to Kahala lamp And 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 4: in Malaysia on Saturday and Sunday. We're going to be 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 4: meeting with our Chinese counterpart, the Vice Premier Julik Fong. 35 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 4: And you just talked about some of the potential sport 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 4: controls we may put on. But the Chinese announced on 37 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 4: October eighth this wide ranging export controls on rare earth 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 4: magnets are excuse me, just on rare earth all over 39 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 4: the world. This is China versus the globe. It's not 40 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 4: just on the US. And I can tell you that 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 4: this licensing regime that they proposed is unworkable and unacceptable. 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: I'm not saying no, but I want to talk about 43 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: Russian oil there, mister secretary Saw, I'll get back to 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: you on that. 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: What happened here? 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: Trump meets with Vladimir Putin in Anchorage. Seems to be 47 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 3: a lovely meeting. Everybody seems to be an in agreement. 48 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: Trump then gathered some world leaders at the White House 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 3: and there's kir Starmer the UK, and there's Georgia Maloney 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: of Italy sneaking a cigarette, and there Finland showed up. 51 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 3: The Hans hunts is it Stumer? 52 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: I forget his last name, A nak Ruber, that's the 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: guy from Diehard, And. 54 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: So he shows up and everybody's there and they're like, 55 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: what's the deal? And Trump's like, well kinda. And they're like, oh, 56 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: we've been down this road, mister president. And the President's like, yeah. 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: I know. 58 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: They thought they had something. They thought there was actually 59 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: some level of movement. 60 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: There wasn't. 61 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 3: This led to more drone attacks. This led to the 62 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: Russians showing their incapability of actually running a military by 63 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: having this drone incursion into Poland, which got the Poles 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: all sorts of worked up. They put out an Article 65 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: four notification of hey, get ready. That leads to an 66 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: Article five, which is an attack on one is an 67 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: attack on all. This is a NATO conversation. The Russians 68 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: keep hitting these Ukrainian spots. Ukraine has been unbelievably effective 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: in hitting these areas of Russia, specifically refineries. 70 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: Trump tried, like the Dickens to. 71 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: Get Ukraine to be Okay, you're gonna give up this lane, 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: you're gonna give up that land, You're gonna give up 73 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: the other land. 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: And there was really, I think a moment. 75 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: Where Ukraine was going to give up those parts of 76 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: the Dunbas, Dnetsk and Luhansk, that part of Zaportia, and 77 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 3: they were gonna have this massive line of Ukrainian territory 78 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 3: down to Crimea, which they already control. 79 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: And then Putin said, yeah, I don't need you. 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: I'll do what I want to do. I ain't interested 81 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 3: in you, Trump, I ain't interested. I'm just not that 82 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 3: into you. I lied to you, I played you. 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: Now. 84 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: The one thing that we said here is that no 85 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: one should trust Vladimir put But never once did I 86 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 3: think that Trump was going into this somehow blindly, and 87 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: when a deal doesn't work, he's gonna go, oh my gosh, 88 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: I can't believe I couldn't. He shows Vladimir. We're such 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,119 Speaker 3: good friends. I mean, I mean he texts me every 90 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: night and we're part of the Tailor Swift fan club. 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 3: Sh don't tell, And it's just so awesome when we 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: share our most innermost secrets. 93 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: Never once did anybody think that you you you understand 94 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: Trump for who he is. Trump is. We're gonna try 95 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: this thing. Those things didn't work. Damn all right, we're 96 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: gonna try that thing. 97 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: And that thing is saying Vladimir's Lenski. My guy, come 98 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: over here. You're crazy, not Yeah, you don't need to 99 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 3: wear a suit. Suits suits are for suckers. You get 100 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 3: over here. Let me tell you. You're the You're the best, 101 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: uh you are and you are funny. You're You're gonna 102 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 3: go back to being a comic after this is all 103 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: said and done. You are a funny, funny, funny guy. 104 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: That's what you are. You know, Jadie Vancy was wrong 105 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 3: to have a challenge in the Oval office. Wrong, wrong, wrong, 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 3: But I've always been with you. You know what we're 107 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 3: gonna do. You know we're gonna do to Vladimir. We're 108 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 3: gonna mess his stuff right up. We're gonna mess it. 109 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: We're gonna go powell ping. It's gonna be like it's 110 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: gonna be like Good Fella's Part two, Ping, pow pang. 111 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: We're gonna put him in the trunk. 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: What do you want, Henry the leg of the wing, 113 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: and we're gonna take care of business, You and me, 114 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: Vladimir hot diggny dog. 115 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: And that's what's happened. 116 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: What's happened is if you understand Donald Trump at all, 117 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: for just a moment, that Trump looked at the situation 118 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 3: and said, Putin won't be reasonable. Okay, we'll go the 119 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: other way. Maybe now he'll be reasonable. Which hard did 120 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: we put the pressure in Ukraine? It seemed to work. 121 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: Putin didn't want it. Now put the pressure on Putin. 122 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: What's the pressure on Putin? Well, let's start with the 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: allowing of or i should say, the restricting the lifting 124 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 3: of restrictions on missiles, specifically something made in the UK. 125 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: This is the storm Shadow missile. It can travel one 126 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty miles. It can't travel from Kiev to Moscow, 127 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: but if it was on the northern border, maybe a 128 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 3: little bit into Russian territory, it could probably do some 129 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: damage hit a Russian rocket fuel an explosives plant in 130 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: a place called Briansk. 131 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that could be a successful hit. 132 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: Probably take out some more refineries, Probably take out some 133 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: oil fields or pipelines. 134 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: From distance, you don't have to get too close. 135 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: President Trump is still considering the utilization of Tomahawk missiles. 136 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: He has said that he has withdrawn that. But you 137 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: never know. 138 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: It's on the table, it's off the table, it's back 139 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: on the table. Okay, I'll pull it off the table. 140 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: Keep over here. That's how he works, that's how he operates. 141 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: That's who he is. 142 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 3: And he has said, you know, I know there's no 143 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: reason why why Ukraine can't get their land back. A 144 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: month earlier, he was convincing Ukraine to give up the 145 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 3: land to get the peace. 146 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: Now you know Ukraine can get the land back. Why not? 147 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: It's Trump oneh one. Putin doesn't want to come to 148 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: the table. Okay, we'll make life more difficult. We'll get 149 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: him come to the table one way or another. We'll 150 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: just do it now. I think there's an interesting part 151 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: of this conversation about the United States is not providing 152 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: hardware to Ukraine as much as they are selling hardware 153 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: to NATO, and NATO is then moving things to Ukraine. 154 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: But the sanction of Russian oil, as we see. 155 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: It is a very very large deal. Canceling of the 156 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: meeting with President Putin Trump saying, quote, it just it. 157 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Didn't feel right to him. 158 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 3: It didn't feel like we were going to get the 159 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 3: place we had to get, So I canceled it. But 160 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 3: we'll do it in the future. Again, more standard typical Trump. 161 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that as a negative. This is 162 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: how the man operates. It's about understanding how he works. 163 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: So the question is can any of this pressure work? 164 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 3: It certainly is understood by the way. Actually, note that 165 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 3: the sanctions block subsidiaries tied to a series of energy companies, 166 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 3: the two largest oil companies. It isolates them, trying to 167 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 3: isolate the Russian economy, impacting their ability to raise revenue. 168 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: It was oil that Reagan used to take out Gorbachev 169 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: and the Russians by driving oil prices down. As we've discussed, 170 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: the only sensible thing that the late Senator John McCain 171 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: may have ever said is that Russia is a gas 172 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 3: station masquerading as a country. 173 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: That's accurate. 174 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: So by pushing oil prices down, Russia was not able 175 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 3: to compete economically, and that was the ballgame. 176 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. Putin is not dumb. He's certainly a 177 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: student of history. He's got to be aware. 178 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: That this strategy it can be used and utilized when 179 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 3: talking about someone like Trump, who's completely willing to do it. 180 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 3: But I have seen nothing within Putin that shows that 181 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: he has any interest in stopping. I haven't seen a 182 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: thing that says he's going to somehow come to the 183 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: table and say fine. So I'm not sure if this works. 184 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 3: I'm not objecting to the strategy. I'm just saying I'm 185 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 3: not sure if it works because nothing seems to look 186 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: like Putin is looking for a way out. There have 187 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: been a lot of conversations about even looking for an 188 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 3: off ramp in this war because he knows he can't necessarily, 189 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: quote unquote win it. It's a level of salemate, especially 190 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: if NATO gets more involved. 191 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: He can keep throwing bodies out of it. 192 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 3: Eventually people stop seeing their kids returning in bags and boxes. 193 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: All politics are local. Hasn't changed. 194 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 3: But there's nothing that says yet that he's going to 195 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: stop anytime soon. I don't know if this works, but 196 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 3: degrading their capacity to profit from oil. This goes back 197 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: to the conversation yesterday where Trump said of Indian Prime 198 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 3: Minister Mody that he's going to stop buying Russian oil. 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: I have not seen that, but if Mody and India 200 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: stop buying Russian oil, that's a big deal. That's a 201 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: big hit. So a lot of pieces a play here. 202 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: We won't know for a little while if any of 203 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: it's gonna work. It'd be nice to see peace in 204 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 3: the region, but I do not know how one gets 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: it's peace with Vatimir Putin. I'm Tony Katz. This is 206 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: Tony Katz today.