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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Hammer and Nigel show.

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Speaker 2: That's really.

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Speaker 1: Him. Are you seeing these same headlines? I am on

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Speaker 1: social media. I'm trying to find it right now, but

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Speaker 1: it's from the Washington Post something about the FBI investigating

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Speaker 1: the death of former Colts owner Jim Mersay.

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Speaker 3: This is yes, they're looking into the doctors and the

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Speaker 3: people that prescribed him the pain medication and the ketamine.

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Speaker 3: This is according to a new report. The Washington Post

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Speaker 3: has it, The New York Post has it. So the

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Speaker 3: FBI issued a federal grand jury subpoena earlier this month

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Speaker 3: with the records tied to Jim Mersey's death, his alleged

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Speaker 3: substance use with illegal and prescription drugs, and his relationship

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Speaker 3: with doctor Harry And I'm going to butcher his last name. Heretan,

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Speaker 3: a California based addiction specialist. Now, again, this is the

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Speaker 3: Washington Post and they're citing court documents and sources close

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Speaker 3: to the investigation. Investigators also spent several days in Indianapolis

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Speaker 3: already this month. Now ersa who passed away last year.

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Speaker 3: We had the guy that broke the story from the

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Speaker 3: Washington Post on our program and he said there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of questions surrounding this, including the death certificate,

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Speaker 3: the body, the way everything was handled.

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Speaker 1: You said, the certificate, they ruled it natural quote unquote

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Speaker 1: natural right, and it was signed by a private doctor,

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Speaker 1: and they said that he died of cardiac arrest, though

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Speaker 1: no autopsy was ever performed.

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Speaker 3: And this doctor allegedly prescribed over two hundred opioid pills

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Speaker 3: before Ersay odeed on two separate occasions back in December

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty three. Once it is Indianapolis home and

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Speaker 3: another in Miami. This is courtesy of the Washington Post.

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Speaker 3: So the Orsay family is not saying much right now,

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Speaker 3: but this is an investigation that is underway. Kind of

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Speaker 3: a Michael Jackson type deal here where Okay, you've lost

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Speaker 3: the big name, but now they're going after the person

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Speaker 3: that prescribed the drugs. Michael Jackson was doctor Conrad Murray,

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Speaker 3: and in this case, it's this doctor that gave him

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Speaker 3: over two hundred pills and allegedly the kenemene. So that

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Speaker 3: is the latest with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the struggle that Ersay had with those

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Speaker 1: opioids is well known. He made it, no, he talked

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Speaker 1: about it, and yeah, I mean I I was on

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Speaker 1: a regiment of I don't know, vicoin or hydrocodeine or

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing. I don't know, but I remember

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Speaker 1: after my nasal surgery, I had deviated septum surgery. I

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Speaker 1: was on like for seven days, like three a day, right,

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Speaker 1: three pills a day, and then afterwards I kind of

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Speaker 1: felt like I had the flu for like a day

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Speaker 1: or too, and I called the doctor. I feel like, crap,

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Speaker 1: what's going on. He's like, yeah, that's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the thing that happens. Imagine taking you know, I was

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Speaker 1: doing three day for seven days. Imagine well, Brett farre

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Speaker 1: he was taking dozens. I mean, there's plenty of documented

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Speaker 1: cases where celebrities and people high status, well known that

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Speaker 1: we're taking dozens and dozens and dozens of these pills.

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Speaker 1: Imagine chasing. So the thing is you're chasing the feeling

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Speaker 1: of not being sick, not some sort of high. Right,

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Speaker 1: once you ingest more opioids, that that flu feeling times

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Speaker 1: five hundred goes away. Now, I mean imagine, I couldn't imagine.

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Speaker 3: I know you didn't get to Ursa or bro nor

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Speaker 3: level here, but is it that you're not chasing a

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Speaker 3: high but because you're taking so many pills, you do

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Speaker 3: feel kind of high that when you come down from it,

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Speaker 3: you don't feel normal. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: You don't feel normal? You feel like, like I said,

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Speaker 1: like the flu from what it's been described to me

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Speaker 1: as the flu times five hundred. Now, I felt like

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Speaker 1: I just was under the weather like I and I

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Speaker 1: didn't have any I didn't have a refill, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any more pills or anything. I just I got

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Speaker 1: over it in a day or two, but I felt

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Speaker 1: like wrap. I couldn't imagine if you're taking thirty, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what Jimmer say was taking or wasn't taking.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That's all.

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Speaker 3: Even if you're not per se sick like in real

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Speaker 3: life's sick, yes, but you feel like it because you're

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Speaker 3: not feeling perfect, If that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the people that are doing thirty a day, you're

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Speaker 1: you're sick until you either right take one through your

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Speaker 1: mouth or snort it right. I known, I've known plenty

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Speaker 1: of people that do, like chop that stuff in because

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Speaker 1: it gets into your bloodstream quicker.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, Matt Maher, I know this isn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily your wheelhouse, per se but you are part of

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Speaker 3: the Supporting Sobriety podcast you do with Ryan Hedrick from

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Speaker 3: the WIBC Newsroom. I'd be curious your perspective on this

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Speaker 3: conversation here, Like when somebody's going through an addiction, Like

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Speaker 3: right now, I feel one hundred percent fine, But if

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Speaker 3: I started taking thirty pain pills a day, oh man,

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Speaker 3: I would want to have that feeling. And when I

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Speaker 3: came down, even though I'm not sick, I would feel sick.

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Speaker 3: Does that make any sense to you?

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Speaker 2: It makes absolute sense. I mean, when you come off

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Speaker 2: any kind of opiate, it feels like like alligators are

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Speaker 2: eating your legs. There are so many symptoms. It is

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Speaker 2: absolutely brutal, and you do feel sick. I'm being really sick.

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Speaker 2: And I know we're talking about katamine here, but any

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Speaker 2: time there's a withdrawal from anything algal, could be drugs opious,

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Speaker 2: whatever it is, there's going to be a consequence to it.

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Speaker 2: That's bad stuff.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: Do we as a nation and a justice department need

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Speaker 3: to start going after these doctors that overprescribe things a

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Speaker 3: little more like there's a fine line between Okay, you

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Speaker 3: gave somebody medication and he overused it as opposed to

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Speaker 3: somebody that gave Michael Jackson lethal doses, somebody that gave

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Speaker 3: an addict like Jim Ersay all these things when you

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Speaker 3: know he was in trouble. Those are the kind of

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Speaker 3: guys I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: I do not have a problem with that at all,

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Speaker 2: and I'll tell you why, because I do believe that

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Speaker 2: the doctors are part of the reason we are in

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Speaker 2: this situation right now with opiate addiction and fittanyl addiction.

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Speaker 2: It's over prescriptions. It's an easy prescription to write. And

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Speaker 2: you remember back in the two thousands, even the twenty

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Speaker 2: tens for that matter, and you know, just opiates were everywhere.

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Speaker 2: They had pain clinics everywhere, and that was part of

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Speaker 2: the thing. You could just get it from anybody at

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Speaker 2: any time. Now it's tightened up since then, but apparently

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Speaker 2: not to the point that if you have a lot

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Speaker 2: of money, if you have a lot of money, you

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Speaker 2: can get whatever you want. And yes, I'd like to

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Speaker 2: look at some of these doctors. I think that'd be

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Speaker 2: a okay with me.

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Speaker 3: Matt Behar If you're down for it, let's continue this

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Speaker 3: conversation tomorrow on your weeklygment. Is that okay? I'd love to,

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Speaker 3: all right, So that's Matt Bhaer back in the traffic center.

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Speaker 3: Download the podcast Supporting Sobriety