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Speaker 1: Why from the heart by it and the crossroads of America.

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Speaker 1: It's Tony kats today.

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Speaker 2: One of them.

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Speaker 3: Still later on, I was active for four days, leaving

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Speaker 3: my wife.

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Speaker 2: I wish the audio was a little better.

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Speaker 4: This was a hostage speaking to President Trump before he

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Speaker 4: spoke at the Canesset, sitting next to Benjamin Att.

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Speaker 2: Yahoo.

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Speaker 4: This man who was captive thanking President Trump for getting

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Speaker 4: his life back. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, incredible, incredible

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Speaker 4: stuff as we take a look at what has happened

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Speaker 4: today and the freeing of the hostages held in captivity

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Speaker 4: by the Hamas terrorists, supported by Columbia University students and

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Speaker 4: far too many others around the globe. President Trump telling

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Speaker 4: Trey yinst that this was really.

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Speaker 2: Possible because of what we.

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Speaker 3: Did in around Mister President, thank you for speaking with

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Speaker 3: Fox News.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much doing a great job. By the way,

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Speaker 2: thank you, sir.

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Speaker 3: Twenty Israelis who were held hostage by Hamas for more

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Speaker 3: than two years were released today as part of your

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Speaker 3: peace plan. What did that moment mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Everything you see, the enthusiasm really beyond is all over

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 5: I've never seen anything like it, and I think it

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Speaker 5: just means peace for the Middle East, and it somehow

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Speaker 5: represents to become representatives of peace for the Middle East.

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Speaker 5: And that's why it's gone like this. Nobody's ever seen

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Speaker 5: anything quite like it.

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Speaker 3: Talk me through how this deal came together. There were

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Speaker 3: very intense negotiations. Our reporting indicates that you were personally

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Speaker 3: on the phone to get this across the finish line.

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Speaker 3: What happened and when did you know that Hamas was

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Speaker 3: going to release the hostages?

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Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you, I think it really started when

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Speaker 5: we took out the nuclear capability of Forehran.

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Speaker 6: When you look at what they had.

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Speaker 5: You couldn't have made this deal of somebody sitting over

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Speaker 5: there with a nuclear weapon over your head.

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Speaker 2: And I think when.

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Speaker 5: We did that, and there were other obviously very warlike

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Speaker 5: things that we did over the course of four or

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Speaker 5: five years. If you've you know, sitting the table, But

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Speaker 5: when we did the when we took away that destructive

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Speaker 5: capability from Iran.

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Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson hurt worst.

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Speaker 4: I guess it didn't start World War three, and I

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Speaker 4: certainly hope we never see a World War three. But

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Speaker 4: we should be clear that Iran is the reason for

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Speaker 4: so much of the horror and the destabilization. And what

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Speaker 4: we're seeing now is the opportunity for something I don't

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Speaker 4: know if it's gonna work, might take a couple tries,

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Speaker 4: but certainly better than what we've seen. Do I think

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Speaker 4: for a second you can have peace with Hamas? I

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Speaker 4: don't Hamas. You cannot have peace with because Amas is

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Speaker 4: a terrorist organization, and one cannot have peace with a

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Speaker 4: terrorist organization.

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Speaker 2: Now is that rhetoric?

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Speaker 4: Do I need to tone down the rhetoric? I have

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Speaker 4: been staring at the scene. Of course, you guys know,

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Speaker 4: I do six hours of radio a day, and I

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Speaker 4: do work on on on TV, a whole bunch of

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Speaker 4: newsmacs these days, and and and and a lot of conversations, consulting,

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Speaker 4: some thinking, and I have been hearing about this, toned

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Speaker 4: down the rhetoric constantly, but sicily, we need to tone down

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Speaker 4: the rhetoric. And it hasn't it hasn't sat right, it

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Speaker 4: hasn't hit right.

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Speaker 2: It's it's very it's it's.

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Speaker 4: Malcolm Gladwell blank, something's wrong and I'm just not sure

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Speaker 4: what it is yet. And I started thinking about I

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Speaker 4: wasn't the first person to come up with this, and

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Speaker 4: I don't know who was, and I don't remember when

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Speaker 4: I first heard it, but I started thinking about how

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Speaker 4: we think of ourselves as people, or people like to

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Speaker 4: think of themselves as being in the center.

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Speaker 2: The center right.

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Speaker 4: You know, usually you hear this ridiculousness. Well, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm not a Republican on a democrat. I like to

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Speaker 4: hear both sides. Well, great, me too. You ever noticed

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Speaker 4: that one side is right and one side is wrong?

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Speaker 4: What does it mean to be like? Oh, no, no, I

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Speaker 4: Lom'm in the middle. You know, I like to hear

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Speaker 4: both sides. What does that even mean? That is a

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Speaker 4: nonsense statement from nonsense people who have no mind and

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Speaker 4: no willingness to open their minds. There is nothing more

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Speaker 4: closed minded than the idea I like to hear both sides.

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Speaker 4: It means you're not willing to say out loud a truth.

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Speaker 4: This side has chocolate chip cookies. This side is stabbing

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Speaker 4: your grandmother to death? Do you not have an opinion?

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Speaker 4: Is one side better than the other? Is one thing

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Speaker 4: better than the other? Is one thing more comfortable to

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Speaker 4: you than the other? I mean, I don't know how

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Speaker 4: many ways I have to do this. Well, you know,

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Speaker 4: I like to hear both sides. What does that matter.

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Speaker 4: It's a nonsense statement. It is an ignorant statement. All

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Speaker 4: rational people want to hear about all the sides. They

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Speaker 4: want to hear all the ways something can be discussed,

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Speaker 4: and then well, based on the analysis this some things

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Speaker 4: you might not have an opinion on. Do you like

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Speaker 4: walnuts in your chocolate chip cookies?

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Speaker 2: You may not have an opinion.

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Speaker 7: Me.

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Speaker 2: I don't mind.

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Speaker 4: Walnuts in a chocolate chip cookie, but just don't call

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Speaker 4: it a chocolate chip cookie because I bite into a

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Speaker 4: chocolate chip cookie and there's walnuts. I'm gonna call your

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Speaker 4: mom names because this was a chocolate chip walnut cookie.

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Speaker 2: Be proper.

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Speaker 4: But something about that center thing, something about that center thing,

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Speaker 4: and you start thinking about something I brought up earlier,

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Speaker 4: which is where the parties have been and where they've

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Speaker 4: gone and what we have seen throughout our recent history.

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Speaker 4: Let's go back to Paul Ryan and how Democrats said

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Speaker 4: to Paul Ryan, the Republican who was the Speaker of

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Speaker 4: the House from Wisconsin. He was the vice presidential running

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Speaker 4: mate with Mitt Romney. You know, Paul Ryan wants to

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Speaker 4: push Grahma off of Cliff What I know he did

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Speaker 4: p ninety x and he was pretty strong.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think he.

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Speaker 4: Wants to push Grahma off of cliff. That's an insane

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Speaker 4: thing to say.

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Speaker 2: But the political left said it would. The political left

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Speaker 2: have said that twenty years ago. You know, when we.

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Speaker 4: Talked about when Democrats were democrats, we just disagreed on

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Speaker 4: some things. You know, Oh my gosh, we could all

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Speaker 4: disagree and argue and harangue each other and all the rest.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, we get go

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Speaker 4: out and share a beer together. Now, never mind that

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Speaker 4: that's got its own level of issues. The question is

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Speaker 4: if you're calling Paul Ryan, if you're saying of him

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Speaker 4: he wants to push Grahma off a cliff, I don't

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Speaker 4: care what you think about Paul Ryan.

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Speaker 2: It means nothing to me.

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Speaker 4: We can argue that that's different that you could take

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Speaker 4: a look at the center and say, well, to the

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Speaker 4: right of the center is the Republicans, and the left

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Speaker 4: of the centers of Democrats. But when you're talking about

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Speaker 4: pushing Grahma off the cliff, the left has gone a

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Speaker 4: little further over to the left, but the right didn't

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Speaker 4: move from where they are. So if you start with

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Speaker 4: a center. Pick any pick anything, pick any object, put

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Speaker 4: it in front of you, and then put your hands

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Speaker 4: in front of you equal distant from that thing that's

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Speaker 4: in the center. Now, move your left hand a foot

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Speaker 4: to the left. The center's no longer the center. Center

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Speaker 4: shifts And this is what the left has been doing

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Speaker 4: for decades, shifting the center left and then proclaiming by default,

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Speaker 4: look how far the political.

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Speaker 2: Right is to the right. They never moved.

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Speaker 4: The left moved to the left because they went from

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Speaker 4: we disagree to Paul Ryan wants to push Grandma off

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Speaker 4: a cliff to it's okay to assassinate Charlie Kirk because

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Speaker 4: he said things we don't like.

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Speaker 2: That's that's what happened.

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Speaker 4: They went from we disagree to push Grandma off the

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Speaker 4: cliff to we don't let Jewish students walk around this

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Speaker 4: camp as while feeling fear.

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Speaker 2: They went from.

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Speaker 4: We disagree grandma cliff to we destroy your signs if

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Speaker 4: you're against abortion, and we might attack you while we're

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Speaker 4: at it because you're messing with our religion. The left

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Speaker 4: moved further left, the right stayed where it is, and

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Speaker 4: the center moved. Now, I will argue that it is

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Speaker 4: very clear that of course, there are people on the

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Speaker 4: right who have done things.

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Speaker 2: That are unacceptable.

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Speaker 4: There are people on the right who right now are

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Speaker 4: engaging in this woke right nonsense, whether that be Tucker

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Speaker 4: Carlson or Candas Owns, as we've brought up before.

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Speaker 2: But as a matter of policy, as a matter of.

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Speaker 4: Generality, they've stayed here and the center has shifted. So

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Speaker 4: how does somebody now tell me to tone.

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Speaker 2: Down the rhetoric. I'm not the one who got extreme.

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Speaker 4: I still think taxes should be low, if not nonexistent.

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Speaker 2: I believe in property rights.

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Speaker 4: I think capitalism is awesome because it is and communism sucks.

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Speaker 4: I that was true when I started my radio career.

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Speaker 4: Still true. What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: Tone down the rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: There were these people protesting immigrations and customs enforcement and

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Speaker 4: over in Portland they decided they were going to protest

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Speaker 4: this anti ice protest, these people attacking immigrations and customs enforcement,

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Speaker 4: and they're riding their bikes nude down the street.

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Speaker 2: That was their protest. And they want me to tone

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Speaker 2: down the rhetoric. But what rhetoric? When I say men

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Speaker 2: are not women and women are not men, that's not rhetoric.

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Speaker 2: That's fact.

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Speaker 4: When I say buy guns, biamo, get trained, go home alive,

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Speaker 4: protect yourself and the ones you love. And if you

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Speaker 4: go to your synagogue, your church or place of worship,

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Speaker 4: you should always be armed because there are people out

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Speaker 4: there trying to do you harm for practicing your religion.

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Speaker 2: That's rational. It's not stream at any level.

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Speaker 4: When I say we should deport illegal immigrants and we

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Speaker 4: should work towards having zero illegal immigration while having a

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Speaker 4: very robust program of legal information immigration for people who

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Speaker 4: actually want to be Americans.

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Speaker 2: What is my rhetoric? What rhetoric are you referring to

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Speaker 2: that I have to tone down the statement. We have

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Speaker 2: to tone down the rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: Is meant solely to silence under the guise of civility,

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Speaker 4: and that is not civility. Civility is not please and

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Speaker 4: thank you and holding the door open. Civility is the majority,

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Speaker 4: not tyrannizing and slaughtering the minority.

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Speaker 2: That is civility. I have been staring.

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Speaker 4: At this line, toned down the rhetoric, as we've talked

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Speaker 4: about it for a great number of years, And what

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Speaker 4: I have determined is no, because you don't mean it.

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Speaker 4: Those people who say it and say it with some

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Speaker 4: level of earnestness like they care. You don't mean it,

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Speaker 4: and you cannot point to the specific quote unquote rhetoric

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Speaker 4: that must be toned down, because if you tell me,

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Speaker 4: I have to tone down the truth of men are

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Speaker 4: not women, women are not men. We don't allow children

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Speaker 4: to abuse themselves. We don't allow grown ups to abuse children.

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Speaker 4: You cannot change your gender, and we should not feed

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Speaker 4: into mental illness. I can't tone down the facts, can't

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Speaker 4: tone down the truth. I can't tone down the honesty.

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Speaker 4: So you don't mean toned down, you mean stop talking,

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Speaker 4: not you they and the answer is no, we should

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Speaker 4: fire everybody in the federal government who is not essential

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Speaker 4: to the running of the government that the citizens require.

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Speaker 2: Toned down the rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: No Ilhanum Armashida taleb or anti Semite space on their

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Speaker 4: own words, tone down the rhetoric. Oh they mean, don't notice, Oh,

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Speaker 4: oh gosh. No, we absolutely should not tone down the rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: Better said, we should not pay any attention to that

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Speaker 4: nonsense problem of a statement, because they don't mean, hey,

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Speaker 4: let's get back to just having some disagreements. No, they're

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Speaker 4: well out here on the left and they're trying to

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Speaker 4: establish a center where you are silenced.

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Speaker 2: I think you should say no to that, because I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say no to that very loudly. I'm Tony Katz,

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Speaker 2: and this is Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 6: And as I said earlier, I intend to be a

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Speaker 6: partner in securing a better future. We're going to be

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Speaker 6: working You're going to be working with the United States,

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Speaker 6: and we're going to make sure that the Middle East

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Speaker 6: is going to be a safe and secure place. It's

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Speaker 6: a very important place in the world. Means so much.

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Speaker 6: It was so many people who said the Middle East,

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Speaker 6: and this has been going for many, many decades. I've

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Speaker 6: read it many times that World War three will begin

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Speaker 6: in the Middle East. It's not going to happen. That's

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Speaker 6: not going to happen.

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Speaker 4: President Trumps speaking now after signing some documents.

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Speaker 2: World leaders behind them, there's.

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Speaker 4: Kir Starmer, who despicably recognized Palestine giving aid and comfort

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Speaker 4: to Hamas. And there's Georgia Maloney of Italy, who famously

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Speaker 4: rolls her eyes at people like Kir Starmer. Tony Katz,

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Speaker 4: Tony kats today, good to be with you, President Trump,

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Speaker 4: just saying the country is going to be putting money

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Speaker 4: into Gaza, not rebuilding, actually building it for the first time,

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Speaker 4: proper and well in his words, and then saying that

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Speaker 4: it will be demilitarized, which might be news to hamas.

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Speaker 2: They cannot have any weapons.

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Speaker 4: They need to be gone and in jail, and worse,

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Speaker 4: a little bit more from President Trump.

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Speaker 6: They didn't get along, some did, some didn't, but they're

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Speaker 6: getting along now. This has brought the people together. This

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Speaker 6: is the first time the Middle East crisis has brought

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Speaker 6: people together as opposed to driving them apart, and to

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Speaker 6: declare that our future will not be ruled by the

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Speaker 6: fights of the generation's past, which is foolish. So together,

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Speaker 6: let us continue and the spirit of cooperation and good

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Speaker 6: will that has finally brought us to this incredible, historic breakthrough.

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Speaker 6: If we do together, we will reach the Middle East

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Speaker 6: incredible destiny is safe and prosperous and beautiful crossroads of

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Speaker 6: culture and commerce, faith in humanity, and geographic center. This

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Speaker 6: will be the geographic center of the world. So I

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Speaker 6: just want to thank everybody for being here. I want

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Speaker 6: to thank you all for what you've done and for

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Speaker 6: this quick quick notice. It all came together just at

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Speaker 6: one little period.

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Speaker 2: It just came together.

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Speaker 1: The greatest deals happened that way.

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Speaker 6: If you do anything about deals, it's all I've done

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Speaker 6: all my life is deals. The greatest deals just sort

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Speaker 6: of happen. And that's what happened right here. And maybe

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Speaker 6: this is going to be the greatest deal of them all,

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Speaker 6: not just nation building, not just having to do with

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Speaker 6: this or the political whims. This will be maybe the

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Speaker 6: greatest deal of them all, period. And I want to

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Speaker 6: thank all of you and all of these great nations

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Speaker 6: and this region for what it's gone through and all

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Speaker 6: of the fights it's had, or life over death and

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Speaker 6: hope over strife and harmony over hatred. That's what we want.

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Speaker 6: We want it to be that way, because together we're

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Speaker 6: going to forge a magnificent, great, and enduring peace. I

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Speaker 6: want to just end by saying, God bless you all,

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Speaker 6: God bless the Middle East, God bless your countries, and

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Speaker 6: God bless you. Thank you very much, everybody, thank you,

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Speaker 6: thank you very much.

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Speaker 4: Okay, the President was not that poetic at the Knesset.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, but that's don't ever question if

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Speaker 2: the man's genuine. That's what that was. In every way

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Speaker 2: I see Antonio Guterrez is there from the UN.

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Speaker 4: Just remember the UN takes our money and they didn't

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Speaker 4: do anything except provide money to the terrorists who attacked Israel.

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Speaker 4: We should really discuss getting out of the UN. Noah

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Speaker 4: Rothman breaks it down next, keep it here. This is

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Speaker 4: Tony Katz today. So yes, it's a peace deal with

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Speaker 4: Israel and Hamas. Really it's the return of hostages and

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Speaker 4: after that. I don't know what's going to happen. And

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Speaker 4: I would tell you that there as many people who

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Speaker 4: hope the peace hold as there is people who say

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Speaker 4: you can. You got your people back. Great, Now go

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Speaker 4: endem us once and for all. There is a call

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Speaker 4: for that, without question. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, great

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Speaker 4: to be with you, but you can't engage today without

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Speaker 4: the recognition that Trump did good.

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Speaker 2: You like him, you don't like him. That's inconsequential to

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Speaker 2: the madness of the policy that gets us here.

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Speaker 4: Yet, the former Secretary of State, Anthony Blincoln, the Secretary

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Speaker 4: of State under Joe Biden, actually said that it's good

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Speaker 4: that President Trump and I'm quoting here adopted and built

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Speaker 4: on the plan the Biden administration developed after months of

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Speaker 4: discussion with Arab partners. Noah Rothman joins me right now,

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Speaker 4: senior writer at National Review, author of the Rise of

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Speaker 4: the New Puritans, The Rise of the New Puritans, fighting

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Speaker 4: back against progressives, were on fun and unjust, social justice,

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Speaker 4: and the unmaking of America. You have the column over there. No,

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Speaker 4: this is not Joe Biden's peace deal. This is a

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Speaker 4: maddening statement from Anthony Blincoln, and one that not only

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Speaker 4: shows a detachment from reality, but now makes everyone question

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Speaker 4: what kind of things were they pursuing in those first

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Speaker 4: four years if they think they were laying a groundwork.

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Speaker 7: Your take, sir, Yeah, I mean, I guess you could

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Speaker 7: defend Anthony Blincoln's statement by saying that everything begets everything right,

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Speaker 7: I mean, just by virtue of the fact of our

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Speaker 7: existing in the year twenty twenty five. There's been a

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Speaker 7: series of precedents that got us here, and in that sense,

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Speaker 7: everything has, you know, some sort of cosmic consequential sequence.

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Speaker 7: Sequential everything flows sequentially from that. But that doesn't make

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Speaker 7: a lot of sense if you actually know the terms

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Speaker 7: that they were negotiating. The September twenty twenty four peace

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Speaker 7: agreement is think what they're referencing. That was the quote

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Speaker 7: unquote take it or leave it deal that the Biden

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Speaker 7: administration put to Benjamin that Yahoo, which is, you know,

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Speaker 7: kind of puts the lie to the notion that the

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Speaker 7: only reason why we have this agreement is because this

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Speaker 7: is something Progressives tell themselves that Donald Trump successfully muscled

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Speaker 7: Benjamin that Yahoo into it, cajoled, coerced use the kind

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Speaker 7: of strong arm tactics that Joe Biden was just he

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Speaker 7: was just too nice to apply that sort of thing

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Speaker 7: to the Israelis. That's just a revisionist history. But the

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Speaker 7: terms of that deal were nothing like the terms of

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Speaker 7: this deal. It would have compelled him us to release

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Speaker 7: only women, elderly, the ill, not fighting age men, which

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Speaker 7: is basically everybody who is in their captivity at that point,

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Speaker 7: with the exception of some of the hostages that were

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Speaker 7: seized and released by Israeli forces in Southern Agaza, and

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Speaker 7: when the Biden administration would not let them go into

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Speaker 7: Southern Gaza was hemming and hauling over it. And then

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Speaker 7: they say that, you know, it looks a lot like

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Speaker 7: either that deal or terms that were implemented by Steve

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Speaker 7: wood coffin the Trump administration. In January of twenty twenty

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Speaker 7: five as a short lived cease fired deal then as well,

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Speaker 7: but it was also again Phase one did not release

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Speaker 7: all the hostages, did not release the bodies, and it,

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Speaker 7: you know, sidesteps the best part of this agreement that

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Speaker 7: Donald Trump negotiated in the region, which is this regional

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Speaker 7: buy in from eight Muslim dominated governments, including Pakistan and

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Speaker 7: Turkey and Katar in Indonesia, all of whom have signed

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Speaker 7: on to the notion that Hamas cannot govern the Strip,

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Speaker 7: that the Palestinian authority needs to commit to some unspecified

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Speaker 7: reforms before it assumes leadership over the strip, and that

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Speaker 7: the IDEF has a semi permanent presence in the Gaza Strip,

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Speaker 7: which is now legitimized and ratified. Arab world is acknowledging

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Speaker 7: Israel's permanent interests in the Palestinian territories. This is all

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Speaker 7: historic and it can't be undone. That's the sort of

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Speaker 7: thing that you can't just like take back. So it's

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Speaker 7: not Joe Biden's peace deal. It doesn't really even resemble

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Speaker 7: Joe Biden's peace deal. And even to talk about it

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Speaker 7: like it's Joe Biden's peace deal ignores the things that

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Speaker 7: the Biden administration either couldn't do or didn't even have

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Speaker 7: the imagination to envision. So it's it is a kind

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Speaker 7: of a defunct talking point. But I get that they

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Speaker 7: need to solve their wounds today because they look uniquely

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Speaker 7: inept when compared to the president's first eight months in office.

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Speaker 4: Night and I do wonder how this plays out on a.

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Speaker 2: On an election.

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Speaker 4: Stage talking to Noah Roffman of National Review. But you

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Speaker 4: bring up the Kataris and this deal these Muslim nations,

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Speaker 4: and I want you to.

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Speaker 2: Get a little bit more into that.

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Speaker 4: But first things first, the Kataris have hamas living in

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Speaker 4: their worlds and spending their billions. The Kataris are investing

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Speaker 4: and putting money into universities and trying to gain influence

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Speaker 4: all across the United States. You've got the Trump administration

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Speaker 4: signing deals saying that we'll protect the Kataris via executive

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Speaker 4: of Order. There's conversations about land investments and military investments

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Speaker 4: here in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Are you worried about the.

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Speaker 4: Kataris and them playing a Chinese esque influence game in

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Speaker 4: the US?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I am, and they are.

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Speaker 7: You know, the line in Washington is, you know, have

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Speaker 7: I play both sides? What are you going to do

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Speaker 7: about it. You got to live with the world as

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Speaker 7: it is. They're not savory actors, but sometimes they're on

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Speaker 7: our side, and sometimes they are on our side. In

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Speaker 7: this case, they're on our side. You could say the

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Speaker 7: same thing with Turkey. It doesn't it's not engaged in

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Speaker 7: as far as I know, an influence operation in the

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Speaker 7: United States like the Kataris are, but they're an unreliable ally.

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Speaker 7: The question is do you want them inside the tent

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Speaker 7: or outside of it? And the prevailing view is in

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Speaker 7: Washington and elsewhere that you want the Kataris in the tent,

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Speaker 7: not outside of it, not you know, cast out of

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Speaker 7: the international order, made a pariah state, suffering with sanctions,

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Speaker 7: what have you, because you'll only get more of this

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Speaker 7: sort of thing. I'm of two minds on that. I

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Speaker 7: can see the realist case for working with the Katari

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Speaker 7: the government of Guitar as it is, but it's certainly

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Speaker 7: not a model exemplar in the region, and it's not

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Speaker 7: much of a partner either when it comes to the

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Speaker 7: strategic benefits that it provides the United States. But just

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Speaker 7: by virtue of the existence of this air base and

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Speaker 7: US sent com positions inside the country. It's more of

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Speaker 7: a gift to the Qataris, and it's designed to keep

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Speaker 7: them from folding into the Iranian orbit, and I see

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Speaker 7: the value of that. Is these are not easy, the

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Speaker 7: decisions that are put before Western leaders, to say nothing

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Speaker 7: of the American president, but it's you know, it's one

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Speaker 7: of those things where you have to take them where

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Speaker 7: they're doing good, then take them when they're doing good,

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Speaker 7: not then you make it an issue.

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Speaker 8: But it's a case by case basis. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 4: So my two notes were one about the Qataris and

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Speaker 4: then I wrote, why agree you talk about these nations agreeing?

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Speaker 4: Is this about Iranian hegemony? Is everything built into Hey,

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Speaker 4: we're going to build up our power and diminish their power.

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Speaker 4: We really hate those people. And that's really where maybe

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Speaker 4: the Obama Biden administration cabal has its biggest issue, because

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Speaker 4: they were convinced that they could work with Iran, they

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Speaker 4: could deal with Iran, they could appease Iran, and these

440
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 4: other nations were.

441
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: Clearly saying you can't. You're out of your mind.

442
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: How much of what we're seeing in this agreement is

443
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 4: because of the desire to diminish Iran's hegemonic.

444
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 7: Power a lot of it, and I don't think you

445
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 7: would have gotten I mean again back to the sequence

446
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 7: of events for everything to get to everything. I don't

447
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 7: think you would have gotten the Abraham Accords without the

448
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 7: Iran nuclear deal with JCPOA, because the logic of the

449
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 7: Abraham Accords was twofold. First, it's presented to the Sunni

450
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 7: Arab states in the region a real existential conundrum because

451
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 7: they opposed the Iran and I have strategic and tactical

452
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 7: differences with Iran, and Iran poses a threat to their securities.

453
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 7: So the Abraham Accord said, listen, this is the big threat.

454
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 7: Let's deal with this first. And then the second part

455
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 7: of that was let's put the Palestinian issue on the

456
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 7: back burner.

457
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 8: It's not forgotten, it's not.

458
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 7: Over, but we're not going to get to peace that way. First,

459
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 7: we do that last. And the logic of that was

460
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 7: very compelling, and the effects of it are self evidently

461
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 7: gratifying if you actually do seek something like a durable

462
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 7: peace in the Middle East, because this begat security ties,

463
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 7: military and intelligence sharing between these countries at a culvert level,

464
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 7: and then it's subsequently flowered into diplomatic relations and commercial.

465
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 8: Ties, and that's the sort of thing that.

466
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 7: Eventually yields normalization in the sense that we mean the

467
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 7: word normalization normal relations between these between the Arab States

468
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 7: and Israel.

469
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 8: And there's the Biden administration.

470
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 7: Went to work trying to undermine that, and initially the

471
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 7: Trump administration set about undermine that when President in his

472
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 7: second term, the first couple of weeks of the second term,

473
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 7: the President started talking about the Palestinian conflict like it

474
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 7: was the root of cause of violence in the Middle East,

475
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 7: of disunion and war in the Middle East. And then

476
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 7: you started talking about displacing Palestinians and making you know,

477
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 7: Gaza into a seaside resort. And this is the sort

478
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 7: of thing that made the Palestinian issue once again front

479
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 7: of mind for the Arab world, which is not what

480
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 7: you want. You want it to be back of mind.

481
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 7: You want it to be the last thing that gets done.

482
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 7: And I think now that the President's sort of abandoned

483
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 7: that approach, and I think it was smart to do so.

484
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 7: And now that we have a real legitimate strategic victory

485
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 7: on all fronts, mostly on all fronts by Israel, I

486
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 7: think you're going to see the peace process resume and quickly,

487
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 7: and in ways that just indicate that this operation was

488
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 7: really just a bump in the road, and in fact,

489
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 7: it demonstrates that Israel is once again the all but

490
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 7: unquestioned military hedgemon in the region. And that's going to

491
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 7: get more countries that want to align with the strong horse,

492
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 7: putting aside their grievances with Israel and the Palestinian issue,

493
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 7: which is still very important to them.

494
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 8: They'll say in statements, but.

495
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 7: They're going to move forward with a normalization process, especially

496
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 7: now that Iran has been not neutralized, but the Iranian

497
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 7: nuclear program is set back significantly, and a precedent has

498
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 7: been established that I think future presidents will observe that

499
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 7: we will not sit by and allow Iran to nuclearize.

500
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 7: I don't think a future Democratic president would say, Okay, well,

501
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 7: you know, we struck them once, but we're not going

502
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 7: to do that again.

503
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 8: Why not? I think they would, and I think they would.

504
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 7: Just maintain that balance because a nuclear ran is not

505
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 7: a popular proposition in the United States. So if you

506
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 7: want to stay on the right side of the American people,

507
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 7: you would make sure to tend the grass, as it were,

508
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 7: and ensure that Iran never develops.

509
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 8: A nuclear program.

510
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 7: Again, all this stuff is apocle huge shifts in the

511
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 7: course of events, and it has everything to do with

512
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 7: the force of arms and fighting a war to win it.

513
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 7: That changed circumstances on the ground in ways that the

514
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 7: endless diplomatic peace process never could right.

515
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: The attack from Hamas change things, But it was Israel

516
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 4: unrelenting in its response that really kind of set a

517
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: stage for opportunity. Talking to Noah Roffin of National Review,

518
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: let me go back again to something you said, which

519
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 4: is these nations working with Israel, how will the college

520
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 4: campus anti Semite, the Palestinian flag waving program program, how

521
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 4: will they be able to square the circle that Islamic

522
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: nations are engaged in normalized relations with the Zionists while

523
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 4: they're out there flag waving and hoping to engage some

524
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 4: toppling of society.

525
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 8: I don't know.

526
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 7: I imagine they'll still be quite violent and quite disruptive.

527
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 7: What attracted a lot of these people to the cause

528
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 7: of freeing Palestine, freeing Gaza, as they say, the genocide,

529
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 7: the famine that never was, is that it's anti Western.

530
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 8: There are fans of that.

531
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 7: Which is hostile to Western dominance, and Israel is coded

532
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 7: as Western and because it is Western aligned and the

533
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 7: Palestinian cause is not. And I think that really is

534
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 7: the basis of it, in part because you know, a

535
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 7: lot of these people were violent before October seventh, violent radical,

536
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 7: They didn't have a unifying cause, and now they do.

537
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 8: But I think that.

538
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 7: Cause will fade into the background if we no longer

539
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 7: have Israel at the top of the headlines every day,

540
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 7: and they'll lom onto some other cause to be disruptive

541
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 7: about what happens to them. I think they're probably going

542
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 7: to continue their campaign of anti Western agitation in some

543
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 7: other guys.

544
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 8: Some other form.

545
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 7: But do they reconcile what they're seeing with the facts

546
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 7: on the ground, No, they do not. They inhabit a

547
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 7: very strange universe. It's a it's a universe in which

548
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 7: normalization deals aren't peace deals, and that the regional threat

549
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 7: environment is as bad or worse as it was on

550
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 7: October sixth, twenty twenty three, that Benjamin Netanyahu had to

551
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 7: be strong armed into accepting this agreement which ratifies just

552
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 7: about every Israeli proposition and then has a regional buy in.

553
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 8: Like this, This is what they tell themselves.

554
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 7: They're talking as though, and this is not just on

555
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 7: the left, this is also folks on the far right,

556
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 7: the influencer side of the far right, which is very

557
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 7: skeptical of, if not hostile towards Israel, saying the same

558
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 7: things that you're hearing from the American left. That Ah,

559
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 7: you know Benjamin Niel, who was such a recalcitran party,

560
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 7: he was such a.

561
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 8: Violent actor that there's no way he.

562
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 7: Would have accepted this peace deal. It's not sense, it's laughable.

563
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 7: And they tell themselves now that it gets Israel supporters

564
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 7: are just disconsolate today and all the hostages are home

565
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 7: for the first time in almost seven hundred and fifty days.

566
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 8: It's just it's insane.

567
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 7: They live in a strange world that does not reflect

568
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 7: our own world, and they will continue to inhabit it

569
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 7: and do a lot of things that make your little

570
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 7: sense to us because they're not consuming our shared reality.

571
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 7: They're contemptuous of our shared reality.

572
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: Noah Rothman.

573
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 4: By the way, that's a whole conversation that we should

574
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 4: get into one day. But that's going to involve Bourbon

575
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 4: and the land of make believe versus real life. The

576
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 4: land of make believe, by the way, that should be

577
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 4: your next book, because if I would write books, that

578
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 4: would be my next book.

579
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: But that I'm giving you that one right there. You

580
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: take that, you run. No, Rothlin, I think that was.

581
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 8: A I think I was a kids show that was

582
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 8: on when I.

583
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: Was That was part of mister Rogers. I'll walk you

584
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: through it.

585
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 8: Great.

586
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, no National review. I appreciate you taking the time.

587
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: More coming up.

588
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 4: I'm Tony Katz not to put too fine a point

589
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 4: on it, but to put the fine points on it.

590
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 4: Trump in an interview, he did some comments to Trey

591
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: Yankster over there at Fox News, discussing what made all

592
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 4: this possible, a peace deal possible.

593
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: Quote.

594
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 4: I think it really started when we took out the

595
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 4: nuclear capa of Iran.

596
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: When you look at what they had.

597
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: You couldn't have made this deal with someone sitting over

598
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 4: there with a nuclear weapon over your head. Tucker Carlson

599
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: was wrong, Candice Owens was wrong, Dave Smith was wrong.

600
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 2: They were all wrong.

601
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 4: So the question is were they wrong because they didn't

602
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: think the US should get involved? Were they wrong because

603
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: just like those of us who watch these geopolitics.

604
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: They knew that with Iran not being the.

605
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 4: Hegemonic power, there was an opportunity to create a better life,

606
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 4: and that's the last thing they wanted, a world where

607
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 4: Israel survives.

608
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: I'm just asking. Is that the way they do it?

609
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: They put up their heads like, oh, I'm just asking

610
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: because I can sell that story because it might very

611
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: well be true. I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Katz Today.

612
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: Find everything at Tony Kat's latop