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Speaker 1: The only way to bag a classy lady is to

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Speaker 1: give her two tickets to the gun show.

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Speaker 2: This Monday Gun Day with the gun Guy. Swatch up

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Speaker 2: with the guns.

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Speaker 1: They'll get the.

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Speaker 2: Guy stop calling your arms.

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Speaker 1: Gunn Show. Jason Hammer right over there with a very

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Speaker 1: special guest on the hot line to a instructor, to

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Speaker 1: a attorney, and a damn fine American.

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Speaker 3: He's the host of the Gun Guys Show. He is

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Speaker 3: Guy Ralford. Guy, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am great and thanks as always to our sponsor

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Speaker 2: for Monday Gunday. That's Premiere Arms in Brownsburg with the

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Speaker 2: largest selection of new use and historic firearms in the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: And pH lud is located in the farmhouse right out front.

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Speaker 2: Check them out at thirty seven and fifty four South

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Speaker 2: Green Street in Brownsburg or Premiere Arms dot com.

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Speaker 3: Guy, We're still seeing lots of protests taking place after

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Speaker 3: Alex Pretty's shooting up in Minneso. So I think it's

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Speaker 3: a good time to maybe remind everybody what the rules

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Speaker 3: are in Indiana when it comes to firearms protests and

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Speaker 3: encountering law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. First of all, you know,

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Speaker 2: we obviously respect the Second Amendment, here in Indiana unlike

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Speaker 2: a lot of other states, and we have very few

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Speaker 2: restrictions on the ability for law abiding people to carry

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Speaker 2: their firearms. There is no law in Indiana that says

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Speaker 2: you can't carry a gun at a protest. I saw

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Speaker 2: Senator Rabbit or excuse me, Governor Arabbit in Texas just

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Speaker 2: came out late last week and said, hey, I want

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Speaker 2: to make it very clear there's a Second Amendment right

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Speaker 2: to carry your gun at a protest or otherwise in Texas.

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Speaker 2: The key though, and you guys and I have discussed

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Speaker 2: this a little bit, is you don't at any time,

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Speaker 2: especially any kind of a confrontation with law enforcement, you

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Speaker 2: don't want to do anything that creates the impression that

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Speaker 2: you're a threat to that officer. So can you lawfully

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Speaker 2: carry a gun? You bet? Do you want to touch

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Speaker 2: the gun, put your hand on the gun, do you

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Speaker 2: refer to the guns, running with the gun, do anything

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Speaker 2: that looks like you're presenting a risk to an officer

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Speaker 2: or otherwise to anyone else. Of course not. Those are

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Speaker 2: things that responsible gun owners are going to know and

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Speaker 2: understand and have no problem complying with. But it starts

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Speaker 2: with you know, there's a lot of internet bs out

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Speaker 2: there saying, well, it's illegal to carry a gun at

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Speaker 2: a protest. Well, it's certainly not an Indiana Okay.

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Speaker 3: So here's a question on behalf of those people that

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Speaker 3: say that, is it illegal to use a weapon against

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Speaker 3: law enforcement to defend yourself? Right, Let's say that I'm

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Speaker 3: some sort of left wing blue hair protester, I'm mister

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Speaker 3: anti Ice, and I'm out on Monument Circle and I've

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Speaker 3: got a police officer coming up, and I fear for

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Speaker 3: my life. Can I use at any point if I

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Speaker 3: fear for my life my legal firearm.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting because Indiana, a number of years back,

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Speaker 2: we had an Indiana Supreme Court case that came out

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Speaker 2: and said, you know, even if a police officer is

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Speaker 2: unlawfully entering your home, that was the context of this case,

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Speaker 2: in this case, entering a home without a warrant, And

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court of Indiana said, even if even if

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Speaker 2: an officer is entering your home illegally, you can't put

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Speaker 2: your hands on them. You can't use any kind of

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Speaker 2: force against a police officer. And a lot of people

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Speaker 2: got really upset about that ruin, and in fact, the

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Speaker 2: Attorney General's Office even asked for the Indiana Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: to review that on what's called rehearing and decide whether

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Speaker 2: they really intended to go that far. And Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: came out again and said, yep, we said what we said.

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Speaker 2: We don't want force being used against police officers even

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Speaker 2: when they're acting unlawfully, and if the legislature doesn't like that,

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Speaker 2: they can change the self defense Statute. Well, the very

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Speaker 2: next session of the Indiana General Assembly, what did the

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Speaker 2: legislature do? They changed the self Defense Statute and in

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Speaker 2: there now are two whole sections of the self Defense

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Speaker 2: Statute that referred to the use of force in self

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Speaker 2: defense against law enforcement officers. And to answer your question,

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Speaker 2: there's a very very limited as it should be, obviously,

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Speaker 2: and we're not advocating, right and would never advocate for

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Speaker 2: the use of force against police officers. And you and

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Speaker 2: I you guys, and I see IDI completely on that, obviously,

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Speaker 2: But there's a very narrow sliver of situations where you

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Speaker 2: can't actually use or including deadly force against a police officer.

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Speaker 2: And that's where first you have to reasonably believe that

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Speaker 2: officer is acting either unlawfully or outside of their official duties.

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Speaker 2: That's very important. Unlawfully or outside of their official duties.

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Speaker 2: So if it's an officer acting lawfully and he's doing

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Speaker 2: his job or her job, then then all bets are

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Speaker 2: off no force against that police officer.

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Speaker 3: Right if i'mna jump in here real quick, God, let

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Speaker 3: me jump in here real quick. That means, even if

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Speaker 3: you don't like ICE, ICE is the law right. ICE

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Speaker 3: has a right to be there. You might not like them,

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Speaker 3: So that means that because you don't like an officer

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Speaker 3: that's an ICE agent, that becomes irrelevant if they have

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Speaker 3: a legal right to be there.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point and a scenario of what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about, Jason, because you're hundred percent right, is they

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Speaker 2: have a warrant, and they have a warrant, They kick

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Speaker 2: in your door, they come in at night. They're clearly

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Speaker 2: ICE officers that they identified as such. You don't like

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Speaker 2: any of that, but hey, they have a warrant that

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Speaker 2: justifies and authorizes what they're doing. You got to let

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Speaker 2: them do their job. But in this situation where they're

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Speaker 2: acting either unlawfully or outside of their official duties, and

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Speaker 2: force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to you

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Speaker 2: or another person then and only then under Indiana's statute.

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Speaker 2: And this is all under Indiana Code thirty five DASH

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Speaker 2: forty one, DESK three, DESH two and a couple of subsections.

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Speaker 2: Go look those up and it says, in that narrow

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Speaker 2: slivery of situations, then you can actually use force against

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Speaker 2: a police officer in Indiana, and that that's been the

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Speaker 2: law for I'd say in the last twelve years or so.

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Speaker 3: One more thing on this topic and then we'll move on.

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Speaker 3: But I think this is really interesting and I think

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Speaker 3: it's informative for our listeners. Comment on our YouTube chat

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Speaker 3: right now, what if the protest becomes a riot at

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Speaker 3: some point, does that change anything?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, in a riot police officers, first of all,

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Speaker 2: they're going to have that much more heightened awareness. They're

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Speaker 2: going to be that much more concerned about risks, especially

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Speaker 2: where people are already using force against officers. People are

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Speaker 2: assaulting officers, throwing stuff at officers. Now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you know, their situational awareness is off the charts. They're

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Speaker 2: concerned for their own safety is at a heightened level. Now,

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Speaker 2: you do anything that presents a risk to those officers,

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Speaker 2: they're going to respond that much more quickly when they're

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Speaker 2: in a dangerous situation like a riot now is illegal.

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Speaker 2: If I'm carrying a gun at a protest and a

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Speaker 2: riot breaks out, am I suddenly breaking the law because

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Speaker 2: I've got a gun in a holster. No, of course not.

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Speaker 2: But that emphasizes and increases the importance of what we

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Speaker 2: talked about earlier, which is, don't do anything that presents

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Speaker 2: a risk to those officers, because they're going to be

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Speaker 2: obviously very very concerned about their own safety, their fellow

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Speaker 2: officers safety wants a riot breaks up.

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Speaker 1: And guy, what about And this definition that I have

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Speaker 1: might be different than the definition of you have, but

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say this word open carry. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, it's not like you have a handgun in

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Speaker 1: your holster underneath your jacket. It's one of those guys

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Speaker 1: that is out protesting with a long gun that is

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Speaker 1: strapped to his body that he's holding, and he's a demonstrator.

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Speaker 1: He's a protester, maybe even an agitator does And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the laws are different from state to state, but

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Speaker 1: here in Indiana, I'm much more concerned when I see that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, I just like you know, there

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Speaker 1: are those guys as sometimes you refer to him his

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Speaker 1: knuckle heads, that had the legal right to open carry

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Speaker 1: with the long gun across their chest. But is it

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Speaker 1: necessarily beneficial to anybody? Does that change a perspective at all?

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Speaker 2: Well, it changes it in the sense that a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks And then what you're describing is people especially

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Speaker 2: have a long gun like an ar on what we

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Speaker 2: call it taxling and or you know, a sling that

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Speaker 2: basically holds the gun in the low ready position. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of times people carry those and they've already

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Speaker 2: got one hand on the pistol grip of the gun

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Speaker 2: and their other hand on the fore end four end

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Speaker 2: of the gun, the handguard of the gun, and so

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Speaker 2: they're they're very very close to a firing position. They're

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Speaker 2: not pointing the gun at anybody. It's still pointing at

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Speaker 2: the ground, but it's that sort of the low ready

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Speaker 2: and it's very very easy to very quickly take that

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Speaker 2: gun from that position. You don't have to take it

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Speaker 2: off the sling. You don't have to take the sling

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Speaker 2: you off from around your neck. You can just pivot

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Speaker 2: the gun up to a firing position very very quickly.

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Speaker 2: That's why they make slings that hold the gun in

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Speaker 2: that position. That increases that I think that the risk

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Speaker 2: that someone's going to see you as a potential threat

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Speaker 2: where you already have your hands on the gun, the

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Speaker 2: gun's very close to a firing position. That to me,

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Speaker 2: increases the risks for everybody involved. It increases the risk

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Speaker 2: of police officers to that individual who may be perceived

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Speaker 2: as a threat. And that's where you got to You

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Speaker 2: got to mix in. And I know this is your point, notige.

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Speaker 2: You got to mix in not only what's your legal

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Speaker 2: right to do, but what's smarter to the circumstances, especially

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Speaker 2: when violence has been breaking out of a lot of

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Speaker 2: these protests.

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Speaker 3: Guy, thank god we live in Indiana and not New York.

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Speaker 3: We've got our problems. We've got some wishy washy lay

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Speaker 3: Mass Republicans. I get it, But you look at New

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Speaker 3: York lunatic governor. The biggest city is a socialist mayor.

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Speaker 3: So needless to say, they're not going to be real

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Speaker 3: to a friendly con brings us to what happened at

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Speaker 3: Laguardi Airport with a former NFL player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, current off lineman for the Green Bay Packers,

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Speaker 2: Rush he'd walker started at left tackle this year for

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Speaker 2: the packers. You know, no indication this guy's ever been

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Speaker 2: a problem for anybody. Upstanding citizen, owns a firearm in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: has a license to carry a handgun in Wisconsin. But

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Speaker 2: he's in New York. He's getting on an airplane at LaGuardia.

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Speaker 2: He declares an unloaded firearm in a locked box in

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Speaker 2: his luggage, which TSA says, you can carry with an

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Speaker 2: unloaded firearm in a locked box in your in your

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Speaker 2: check in your checked bags. And so he does what

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Speaker 2: he believes he's supposed to do, declares the gun. They're

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Speaker 2: at the ticket counter and a Laguardian police officer steps

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Speaker 2: up and wants to see his New York license to carry.

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Speaker 2: He goes, well, I don't have one. I just have

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Speaker 2: one in Wisconsin. They put him in handcuffs and arrest

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Speaker 2: him on felony charges. And this guy's looking at he

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Speaker 2: gets present having a handgun in New York.

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Speaker 1: That is so re damned deculously, what do you think's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen here? Within a sixty second? I mean, like, realistically,

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen?

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Speaker 2: Guy? You know, it's tough to say because New York

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Speaker 2: is unapologetic about this man, I mean in New Jersey

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Speaker 2: is the same way. There have been people that have

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Speaker 2: been diverted into New Jersey or New York because of

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Speaker 2: bad whether they get stuck there overnight and the exact

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Speaker 2: same thing happens. They come back and go to recheck

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Speaker 2: their bags, right, they take get taken to jail. They go,

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Speaker 2: I didn't even want to come to New York and

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Speaker 2: I got diverted here, and so no, they'll they'll, if

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Speaker 2: history holds true, they'll go after him and try to

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Speaker 2: tag him with felony charges.

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Speaker 3: Guy, if somebody wants to reach out to you, how

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Speaker 3: can they find you.

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Speaker 2: Their website is Relfordlaw dot com. In contracts to the website,

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Speaker 2: or reach out on Twitter or x give me a

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Speaker 2: follow on there as well. I'm just at Guy Relford

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Speaker 2: on X got You're the best.

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Speaker 3: We appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, guys,