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Speaker 1: An incredible story. You got to Hear to Believe ninety

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Speaker 1: three WIBC. It's Kennelly Casey Show. I'm Rob Casey's here,

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Speaker 1: and there is an unbelievable new book out by a

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Speaker 1: world renowned author and television star about an elementary school

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Speaker 1: teacher who allegedly stabbed herself twenty times. And our next

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Speaker 1: guest is, I don't think so. The book What Happened

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Speaker 1: to Ellen, An American miscarriage of Justice, is written by

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Speaker 1: you nor from television and her number one books across

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Speaker 1: the country, Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace joins us now in

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Speaker 1: the WIBC hotline. Nancy Grace, Hello, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me, Rob, I got to tell

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Speaker 2: you the first time I saw Ellen, it reminds me

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Speaker 2: a little bit of the first time I saw Kelly Anthony.

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Speaker 2: You knows the daughter off top Mom Casey Anthony. Ellen's eyes,

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Speaker 2: the beautiful brown eyes just looking out at me, almost

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Speaker 2: as this year was saying, ye, do something, help me.

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Speaker 2: Ellen be full the world in front of her. She's

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Speaker 2: just sent out her saved the dates for the wedding.

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Speaker 2: She finally found mister right. Her parents have gone through

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Speaker 2: their entire savings and just sold their house, trying to

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Speaker 2: fight for justice and clear the name. Ellen was teaching

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Speaker 2: first grade near Philly. She got all the children on

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Speaker 2: their way home. There was a nor'easter, a blizzard coming.

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Speaker 2: She got home to her apartment, she's stared with the fiance.

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Speaker 2: She called every single parent to make sure their child

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Speaker 2: got home, started making a big fruit salad. The fiance says,

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Speaker 2: he comes home, he sees her, he talks to her,

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Speaker 2: He goes downstairs to work out in the weight room.

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Speaker 2: I've got him on a video going down there. When

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Speaker 2: he comes back up, I'm working out. She has been

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Speaker 2: stabbed twenty times at least Why do I say at

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Speaker 2: least rob because when stab wounds overlap, you can't really

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Speaker 2: tell how many times somebody's been stabbed. It's like trying

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Speaker 2: to tell how often someone has bitten into jello. You

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Speaker 2: just can't really tell. But we know of twenty stabs.

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Speaker 2: Eleven of those rob to her back, including slicing her

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Speaker 2: own dura, the protective sheet around the spinal cord. And

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Speaker 2: she kept stabbing herself. That did not happen, is telling you.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is our guest. She has a new book

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Speaker 1: out This is so interesting. It's called what happened to

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Speaker 1: Ellen an American miscarriage of justice.

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Speaker 3: All right, so let's touch on that. This this this.

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Speaker 1: Event, I guess we'll call it is ruled a suicide.

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Speaker 1: How did they how did they possibly come up with that?

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Speaker 2: Well, when police got there, they were told by the fiance,

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Speaker 2: and they observed that there was no break in, nothing

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Speaker 2: was missing, so they went, oh, okay, suicide. And not

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Speaker 2: only that, when Ellen's body got to the medical examiner,

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Speaker 2: that would be Dtor doctor Osborne, he ruled it a homicide.

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Speaker 2: He said she was murdered, which of course she was.

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Speaker 2: Then a few days later there was a closed door meeting,

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Speaker 2: which I don't like anything with the door close between

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Speaker 2: a rep from the District Attorney's office and the police

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Speaker 2: on the scene. The police had said it was a

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Speaker 2: suicide because they were told no break in. The door

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Speaker 2: flocks from the inside, that's what they were told, and

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Speaker 2: they said suicide. So when in me he goes, no,

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Speaker 2: this is a homicide, they have this closed door meeting

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Speaker 2: and he was pressured to change his ruling. He said

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Speaker 2: that in a sworn deposition that the DA, the elect

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Speaker 2: Assistant DA, the police pressured him to change his ruling,

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Speaker 2: and he's changed it from homicide to suicide. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, that female Ada has gotten immunity on the case.

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Speaker 2: So let me tell you something. I was ten years

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Speaker 2: prosecuting felonies in inter city Atlanta. I was a fed

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Speaker 2: three years before that. I never had to take immunity,

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Speaker 2: so I couldn't get prosecuted on one of my cases.

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Speaker 3: Nancy Grace is our guest.

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Speaker 1: She has a brand new book out, What Happened to

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Speaker 1: Ellen An American Miscarriage of Justice. Okay, so how do

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Speaker 1: you decide when you're going to do a book. You're

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Speaker 1: obviously a TV star. You've written many many books that

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Speaker 1: are that are critically acclaimed, very well received. You you

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Speaker 1: sort of have your pick of what you're going to do.

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Speaker 1: Why did you decide this case to write about?

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Speaker 2: Because there's injustice and I am not making any money

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Speaker 2: off this. My proceeds are going to National Center Missing

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Speaker 2: Exploited Children, so I don't have a money dog in

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Speaker 2: the fight. But I'm telling you her parents have been

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Speaker 2: fighting this thing and figning it and finding it for years.

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Speaker 2: And you know me, I hate politics. I just hold

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Speaker 2: my nose and vote for the one that sinks police.

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Speaker 2: I don't like the Republicans. I don't like the Democrats.

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Speaker 2: They're all lying, they all they Oh, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about politics. It makes my skin fall. Why

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Speaker 2: Josh Hero, the governor of Pennsylvania, has not jumped into

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Speaker 2: the prey, I do not know. How could he stand

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Speaker 2: by and let this happen?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how hes sleeps at night? How do

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Speaker 2: it because nobody else is doing anything?

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Speaker 1: How long does it take you to put a book

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Speaker 1: like this together from start to finish?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven, A long time. My first nonfiction,

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Speaker 2: believe it or not. I worked on that for ten years.

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Speaker 2: But in the interim I wrote another nonfiction called Objection.

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Speaker 2: I launched a show, I got married, I had twins.

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Speaker 2: A whole lot happened in that ten years before I

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Speaker 2: could finish Eleventh Victim, which is based on, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the things I lived through as the

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Speaker 2: prosecutor in Atlanta. So it depends. But I really work

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Speaker 2: literally around the clock on this book to get it

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Speaker 2: out so it can make a difference. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: I don't normally do this. Ied the audiobook myself I'd

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Speaker 2: have stopped multiple times because I get so shucked up

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Speaker 2: reading about what happened. This is their only child, their

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Speaker 2: only child, and they have spent everything they've ever made

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Speaker 2: trying to get her name cleared, and nobody is helping them.

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Speaker 2: That girl did not stab herself twenty times that did

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Speaker 2: not happen, including eleven times in the back of Kea's sake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems like a bit of a stretch. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace is our guest television star, acclaimed author her new book,

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Speaker 1: What Happened to Ellen An American Miscarriage of Justice. So

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Speaker 1: do you have a theory on exactly what took place

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Speaker 1: and why? Like, as you said, she didn't kill herself,

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Speaker 1: so clearly you think there's a cover up.

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Speaker 3: Why the cover up took place?

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Speaker 2: Yes, of course I have a theory, But I have learned.

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Speaker 2: I've learned the hard way. You do not go into

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Speaker 2: an investigation with blinders on thinking, oh, this one did it,

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Speaker 2: that one did it, this is what happened, because things

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Speaker 2: change over the course of an investigation. I'm on the

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Speaker 2: outside looking in, and if I blurt out my theory

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Speaker 2: right now, it could change the course of this investigation.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think I just plus not only that.

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Speaker 2: As I said, things change, you learn new facts, you learn.

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Speaker 2: For instance, was she being stalked at school? She's absolutely gorgeous.

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Speaker 2: Was there a delivery person in the building that David

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Speaker 2: I don't know about who had access? Was there video

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Speaker 2: footage of who was going in and out of that hallway?

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Speaker 2: There could be any number of things that happened. I

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Speaker 2: saw the fiancee on video and going to work out

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Speaker 2: like you said he did. But did anyone go into

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Speaker 2: her apartment? Someone waiting for him to leave? I don't

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Speaker 2: know all the answers, So it would be literally reckless

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Speaker 2: to blurt out a theory right now before I.

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Speaker 3: Let you go.

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Speaker 1: How often in this cause, look, obviously, the world follows you,

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Speaker 1: the world knows you. How often when someone like you

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Speaker 1: takes on a case like this, writes a book about

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Speaker 1: a case like this, how often does it sort of

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Speaker 1: change the tide in terms of how law enforcement and

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Speaker 1: the public looks at a case like this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that it's not necessarily what my theory

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Speaker 2: is that changes the public opinion. A lot of times,

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Speaker 2: the public doesn't know about a case until I publicize it,

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Speaker 2: until I get it out there and then it doesn't

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Speaker 2: take a lock at scientist to figure it out to

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Speaker 2: understand that she did not commit suicide. Did I remember

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Speaker 2: to say she had breathe marks around her neck to

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Speaker 2: suggest that she was subdued before she would stab Do

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Speaker 2: you think she strangled herself too? Okay? What I don't

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Speaker 2: like about this is politicians the dirty dogs. They are

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Speaker 2: are standing by and doing nothing while these parents waste

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Speaker 2: away financially, physically, mentally, emotionally, and they do not lift

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Speaker 2: a finger. And I got to ask, why.

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Speaker 3: Nancy, Where can people get the book.

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Speaker 2: At They can get it online on Amazon, you can

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Speaker 2: get I love audio books. I just finished an audiobook

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Speaker 2: while I was jog clash walking more walking was jogging,

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Speaker 2: And I love audio books, so that anywhere you buy books, Amazon,

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Speaker 2: you name it. We've done multiple programs on it, on

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Allen's Parents, which is on YouTube, and

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Speaker 2: every podcast origination. So I'm trying, I'm trying. Please join me,

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Speaker 2: Rob help me.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what we do here. We try to help people,

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Speaker 1: and you've helped a lot over the years. The Great

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the book What Happened to Ellen? An American

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Speaker 1: miscourage of Justice.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: PS did he did it?

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Speaker 1: That's a Kettle and Casey Show ninety three, WIBC