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Speaker 1: Tomas Massy said the Epstein scandal is bigger than Watergate,

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Speaker 1: bigger than I ran Contra, longer in time, involved multiple administrations,

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Speaker 1: and that we have to get to the bottom of it,

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Speaker 1: and that seems to be what he is trying to do.

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Speaker 1: We turn our attention to the e Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick,

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Speaker 1: and he admitted under oath that he did visit Epstein's

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Speaker 1: private island, Little Saint James, during a twenty twelve family vacation.

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Speaker 1: He said he had lunch there with his wife, his

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Speaker 1: four children, nanny's and another family were with him, and

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Speaker 1: they spent about an hour on the island together. This

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Speaker 1: after he made an appearance. This was back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five. He was on a podcast and he

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Speaker 1: said that after meeting Jeffrey Epstein, he decided that he

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Speaker 1: would never spend time with him again. Listen to this, and.

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Speaker 2: We left, and in the sixth or eight steps it

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Speaker 2: takes to get from his house to my house, my

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Speaker 2: wife and I decided that I will never be in

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Speaker 2: the room with that disgusting person ever again. So I

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Speaker 2: was never in the room with him socially for business

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Speaker 2: or for even philanthropy, if that guy was there. I

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Speaker 2: wasn't going because he's gross and.

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Speaker 1: So so gross in fact, that he's going to get

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Speaker 1: on a boat with his family and go have lunch

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Speaker 1: with him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. This this is part of the bigger concern that

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Speaker 3: I think everybody maybe some hard truths that everybody's going

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Speaker 3: to have to come to terms with as it relates

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Speaker 3: to the Epstein Files and a lot of the I

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Speaker 3: am very pessimistic that will have any sort of justice

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Speaker 3: that we're looking for out of this. I want people

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Speaker 3: to go to jail. I'm outraged by this. This behavior

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Speaker 3: is disgusting. You know, there's so much circumstantial evidence here.

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Speaker 3: But the problem is most of these potential that could

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Speaker 3: have been committed probably have the statute of limitations has

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Speaker 3: expired on our ability to potentially prosecute them criminally. And

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Speaker 3: most of what we're seeing in these Epstein files are

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Speaker 3: circumstantial evidence. There's very little hard evidence of crimes specifically

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Speaker 3: taking place, the type of evidence you would need to

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Speaker 3: convict somebody in a court of laws. So what are

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Speaker 3: we left with as as a public, as a culture,

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Speaker 3: what are we left with on this? Because we want

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Speaker 3: some decisions about this, we want some justice as it

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Speaker 3: relates to this. So the only thing we're pretty much

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Speaker 3: left with is public shaming of these individuals that looked

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Speaker 3: like something awful was going on and the truth. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know, you've got to give massive props to Thomas

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Speaker 3: Massey for fighting this fight. Also, Democrat Rocana has also

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Speaker 3: been very forward about wanting to have the truth and

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Speaker 3: all of these files come out and redacting as much

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Speaker 3: of them as possible. So we're kind of left with

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Speaker 3: public shaming as it relates to Howard Lutnik. And I'm

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Speaker 3: not quite sure what standard we're going to use to,

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Speaker 3: you know, to apply to people that are mentioned in

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Speaker 3: the Epstein files, because you've got everything from I saw,

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Speaker 3: you know, a very interesting article about this guy who's

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Speaker 3: a hedge fund manager. Never met Jeffrey Epstein, never talked

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Speaker 3: to Jeffrey Epstein, was never in the same room with him.

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Speaker 3: But friends of a friend of a friend knew Epstein

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Speaker 3: and they were communicating via email about some charity event,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, this guy's name shows up

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Speaker 3: in the Epstein files. And by the way, a photo

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Speaker 3: of him with his arms around a couple of young

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Speaker 3: kids also ended up in the Epstein files turns out

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Speaker 3: they were his kids, and that was a photo on

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Speaker 3: his couch in his living room. So you've got people

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Speaker 3: that are, you know, what look to be on the

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Speaker 3: surface as completely innocent, that have been mentioned in these

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Speaker 3: Epstein files, and those people shouldn't, you know, they did

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong, shouldn't have any consequences of this, all the

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Speaker 3: way to the other end of the spectrum, where people

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Speaker 3: are mentioned in the Epstein files thousands and thousands of times,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like Howard Lutnick, current Commerce Secretary of

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Speaker 3: the United States, well after Jeffrey Epstein was committed was

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Speaker 3: convicted of pedophilia in two thousand and eight, showed up

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Speaker 3: on his island with his family in twenty twelve. So

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Speaker 3: it seems like whatever standard we use to apply here

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Speaker 3: to shame these people publicly, it seems like on the

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Speaker 3: surface here Howard Lutnik has met that standard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So after he met Jeffrey Epstein in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, he said he was never going to be

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Speaker 1: in a room with that quote disgusting person ever again.

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Speaker 1: But then in front of the Senate it came out, well, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: actually you did have a continuing relationship of some sort

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Speaker 1: with him, and you've got government documents and emails that

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Speaker 1: show continued contact.

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Speaker 4: Listen to this, I think you understand the root of

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Speaker 4: concern here. It's the way you described very emphatically your

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Speaker 4: first encounter with him in his apartment, said you were disgusted,

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Speaker 4: would never have any contact with him again. Did you

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Speaker 4: in fact make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island.

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Speaker 2: I did have lunch with him, as I was on

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Speaker 2: a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife

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Speaker 2: was with me, as were my four children and nannies.

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Speaker 2: I had another couple. They were there as well with

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Speaker 2: their children, and we had lunch on the island. That

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Speaker 2: is true, for an hour and we left with all

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Speaker 2: of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together.

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Speaker 2: We were on family vacation. We were not a part

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Speaker 2: to suggest there was anything untoured about that in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: I don't recall why we did it, but.

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Speaker 1: To go and look in gawk. Perhaps. I mean, nobody's

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Speaker 1: saying that he did anything nefarious while he was there,

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Speaker 1: but it's the fact that he publicly said he was disgusting,

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Speaker 1: he was never going to be in a room with

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Speaker 1: him again, And then years later after he was convicted,

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Speaker 1: took his family there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a credibility issue for Secretary Lutnek at

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Speaker 3: this because you said that you had no contact with

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Speaker 3: him after two thousand and five and that he was

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Speaker 3: a gross individual. Well, you had a lot of contact,

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Speaker 3: because there's other emails. You know, he was invited to

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Speaker 3: certain fundraising events for Hillary Clinton, donations for charities. There

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Speaker 3: was back and forth communication way after Epstein's conviction in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. So this is a credibility issue

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Speaker 3: because it looked like Howard Lutnik wasn't telling the truth

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Speaker 3: back when he said that he cut off all contact

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and five and then continued to have

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Speaker 3: a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein after his conviction in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eight. It comes down to credibility for Howard Lutnik,

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Speaker 3: and the pressure is being ratcheted up. There are people,

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Speaker 3: including Thomas Massey, they're calling for Howard Lutnick's resignation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are several lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans that are

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Speaker 1: calling for his resignation, saying that his past comments they

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Speaker 1: don't match what the record show. And guess what that's important.

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Speaker 1: We expect that of our elected officials. We probably shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's on us. We expect, we expect them to

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Speaker 1: tell us the truth. Sorry, my bad. I should know better,

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Speaker 1: But you've got the speaker, Mike Johnson. It's number three, Kevin.

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Speaker 1: He says that Lutnick should not resign. When he was

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Speaker 1: asked by reporters.

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Speaker 3: How Lutnick had said that he had cut out ties

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Speaker 3: with Jeffreyft in.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and five doncuments that came out contempt that

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Speaker 2: the Democrats and Thomas Massey said he should resigned.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that Howard Lutnick should resign?

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Speaker 5: And of course not, it's absurd. Howard Lutnik is a

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Speaker 5: great Commerce secretary with an extraordinary jeff of the country,

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Speaker 5: and Thomas Massey should not be Do you.

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Speaker 3: Have any concerns about Lutnick's ties.

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Speaker 5: With I don't know anything about that. I know Howard

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Speaker 5: as an individual, and I thrust his word on it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Of the timing and all that.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure you have to ask.

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Speaker 3: Other two of these.

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Speaker 1: He's saying that it's absurd. No, he should not resign.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's exactly absurd. I mean, obviously Mike

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Speaker 1: Johnson is going to be speaking the administration's talking points

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Speaker 1: and that's what he's doing there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks a lot more absurd to be defending

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Speaker 3: Howard Lutnik at this point. Look, we want justice. We

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Speaker 3: want people to go to jail for these awful crimes

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Speaker 3: that looks like they were committed on these young, innocent children.

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Speaker 3: We want people to face justice and to go to jail,

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Speaker 3: and it's highly unlikely we're not going to get that,

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Speaker 3: so we'll come for something else. And maybe that's your job,

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Speaker 3: Howard Lutnik, And maybe nothing untoward did happen, but I

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Speaker 3: can guarantee you what it looks like allegedly proved out here.

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Speaker 3: You lied to us when you said he didn't have

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Speaker 3: any contact with him after two thousand and five, and

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Speaker 3: you took family vacations there, and you had continued contact

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Speaker 3: with him after his conviction in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: In my mind, that is enough for people to call

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Speaker 3: for his resignation, and Howard Lutnik should resign.

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Speaker 1: There's a new bill called Virginia's Law. It was introduced

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Speaker 1: in Congress by lawmakers alongside the Family of Virginia Gilfree

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Speaker 1: and other survivors of Epstein's abuse and what it would do.

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Speaker 1: It would remove the statute of limitations. Now this is

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Speaker 1: only for civil lawsuits for survivors of the abuse in

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Speaker 1: federal court. It does not include any criminal