1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: I think one of the big problems we have is 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: that we don't have a good definition of terms. We 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: hear about these things happening. We see these things happening, 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: but if we ask ourselves what they mean. If we 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: take a look at the election of Mamdani in New York, 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be told that the reason that this 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: communist got elected was because of affordability. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 2: But I'm not so sure that's the case. 9 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: But neither here nor there, I'm not so sure we 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: understand what affordability actually means. 11 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: And every time I hear Tucker Carlson. 12 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Kandas owns, Nick Fuentes and Grouper's, I'm assuming half the 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: people say, I don't know what a groper is, but 14 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure if I take some kind of salve 15 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: or penicillin, it. 16 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: Will go away. The terms, the words have meaning. 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: We got to know what they are in order to 18 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: be able to understand what we're dealing with. Tony Katz, 19 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Tony Katz today, good to be with you. Noah Rothman 20 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: joins me right now from National Review. That's where you 21 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: find his work, National Review dot com. And you have 22 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: been on these subjects right talking about affordability regarding the 23 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: ma'm donnie election and talking to. 24 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: Me about one day. 25 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: So I want to start with affordability first, because this 26 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: is the buzzword, and President Trump has. 27 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: Been making the argument. 28 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: Finally, in my view that you know, the economy is 29 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: better than people say, we're just not talking about it enough. 30 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: I don't think everything is great, but he can make 31 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: some arguments. 32 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: So when you take a look at this affordability conversation, 33 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: how Zoron Mamdanni ran what his Republicans are now saying, 34 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: what do you take from them? 35 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 3: Well, I kind of share your skepticism that the affordability 36 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 3: argument is what won the election from Mamdani. He managed 37 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: their majority of the vote in New York City, in 38 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: which Democratic nominees for New York City may are typically romp. 39 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 3: But that said, I think it would be folly to ignore, 40 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 3: especially for Republicans conservatives, to ignore the salience of the 41 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 3: affordability issue and the apparent popularity of his solutions to them, 42 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: which amount to top down government style entitlement programs an 43 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: unfunded liabilities that we're already drowning in. But I wrote 44 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: about this yesterday. There's some Yuga polling, for example, that 45 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 3: shows majorities even two thirds of voters support things like 46 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: rent freezes and free childcare whatever that means, and government 47 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: owned grocery stores and raising the minimum wage to thirty 48 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 3: dollars an hour, as though these will have no macroeconomic consequences. 49 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: The conservative argument. The Republican argument has typically been that 50 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: whenever you hear this sort of stuff from socialists, they're 51 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: arguing for more vociferous efforts to solve the problems they 52 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 3: created and using the same solutions that created the problems 53 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 3: in the first place. And what we're hearing, I don't 54 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: think what we're hearing counter your impression that what we're 55 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: hearing from Donald Trump is an especially adroit political argument 56 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 3: against the very salient fact that the cost of living 57 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: in the United States is too high, and it has 58 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 3: been growing over the course of Donald Trump's presidency, his 59 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: second term presidency, we've seen upwards of three, four, five 60 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: six percent increases in the cost of food, home and renters, insurance, appail, bedding, furniture, 61 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: you name it. And the President's response to this is 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: to say, I don't want to hear about affordability, he 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: tells reporters, He tells Laura Ingram, you know, it's a 64 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: con job by Democrats, the notion that the cost of 65 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: living is too high. What he should be arguing, and 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: what conservatives and Republicans have been arguing typically in the 67 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: pre Trump era, is that when cost of living increase 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: increases to an unsustainable level, it is exacerbated by efforts 69 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: to remove from the economy your money, taking your income 70 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: out of your pocket and shoveling it into really ineffective 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: and inefficient government programs that do not deliver the services 72 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: they're supposed to deliver, and limit the macroeconomic benefit that 73 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: we would have if you were allowed to patronize the 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: firms that you wanted to, not because they're the best connected, 75 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 3: but because they're the most efficient, effective, and maximize your happiness. 76 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: That process, in the aggregate is what we call free 77 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: market economics, and nobody talks about individual economic liberty anymore. 78 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 3: Nobody talks about your ability to navigate your own environment 79 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: to see the people in services that you think are 80 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 3: doing the best and signal to the broader market. But 81 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 3: because they're doing the best, others in the competition in 82 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: that space have to either change what they're doing or 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: fold that process of creative destruction is what generates economic 84 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 3: growth and prosperity and wealth. And it's the sort of 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: thing that Republicans used to talk about with self confidence 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: and assuredness because those principles are time tested and true. 87 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: They no longer do. But right now what they're offering 88 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 3: is something like socialism light. 89 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: It's weight with socialism I think has happened here. And 90 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: I don't mean interp talking about that often. I'm not 91 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: for review. I'm going to take a clumsy stab at. 92 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: This, but it has been in my head for a 93 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: while that I don't think you call it the woke, right, 94 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: that's I think I might be a different group of people. 95 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: But they see that conservatism under the Bill, crystals of 96 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: the world didn't work, and they have now extrapolated that 97 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: out to capitalism under the Bill crystals of the world 98 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: didn't work, and there has to be more done by 99 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: government to help people or engage protectionism, which is tariffs, 100 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: et cetera. And the very idea of free markets seems 101 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: to be well, that's just that old school stuff that 102 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: didn't work. 103 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: I am not a buyer in that. I'm not a 104 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: believer in this. 105 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: And there's this very interesting conversation going on regarding something 106 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro said that if a place is too expensive, 107 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: find a place that's less expensive. And you have others 108 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: saying this is exactly the problem. That's exactly the issue. 109 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: You're gonna lose elections this way. I don't know how 110 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: you lose elections by saying you can't afford New York. 111 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: If you can't afford New York, so don't live in 112 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: New York, which is something every father has said to 113 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: every son and every daughter, usually more sons than daughters, 114 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: because they. 115 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: Let their daughters do what they will. 116 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose I have a little less sympathy for 117 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 3: the notion for the invocation. For example, Bill Crystal, a 118 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: writer who has absolutely no influence over the evolution of 119 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: economic policy on the planet Earth since the Enlightenment. And 120 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 3: we're talking about Adam Smith, not Bill Crystal. So I 121 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: just find it to be completely erroneous to even bring 122 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: them up. Second, now, the notion here that that dynamism, 123 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: that agency that your individual efforts to shape and change 124 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 3: your own reality are somehow untoward or suggesting that you 125 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: have that capacity to navigate your environment and change your 126 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: circumstances even up to and to the point of picking 127 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: up roots and derascinating is essential to the American ideal. 128 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: This is not something that is just new and unique. 129 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: And we've always had a protectionist social covenant in which 130 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 3: you can be expected to spend generations on the same 131 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: plot of land. You know. That's like an old world ideal, 132 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: and it's one that is accompanied by stagnation. Why would 133 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 3: we want to import the social covenants of Europe to 134 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: this place where we have such economic dynamism, where we 135 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: have individual liberty and individual rights, and the notion that 136 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: you yourself are responsible for your lot in life and 137 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 3: therefore have the freedom and opportunity to shape and change it. 138 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: It's a romantic notion that the rest of the country 139 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: should shell out their taxpayer dollars so that you can 140 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: afford a certain lifestyle in a place that no longer 141 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: sustains it. But it's not going to change economic reality. 142 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: We can prop you up for a certain amount of time, 143 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: but an unsustainable proposition is an unsustainable proposition and will 144 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: not be rendered sustainable merely because we throw money at it. 145 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: We're having the same debate Obamacare right now, in sort 146 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: of a microcosm. The Democrats are arguing that the subsidies 147 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: that they themselves sunset in order to meet the measure 148 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: of a medical emergency is somehow something that we have 149 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: to now accept in perpetuity, even though the costs that 150 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: they're trying to stop gap here are growing growing, not shrinking, 151 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: and we will be continued. We'll just sign ourselves up 152 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: for continually trying to support this unsustainable evidence until edifice, 153 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: rather until it inevitably collapses. Rather, we should allow the collapse. 154 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: We should allow the creative destruction out from which a 155 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: better status quo can emerge. If something does not is 156 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: not going to work forever, we have better accept it 157 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 3: and shape it and change it now until the before 158 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 3: the consequences become far worse than they would be today. 159 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: Talking to Noah Rothman of National Review dot Com of 160 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: Acroy of freeop was making this argument with me yesterday 161 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: that you can engage the subsidy conversation all you want, 162 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: but in the end you have to change the fundamental 163 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: dynamics of Obamacare if you want anything to be better. 164 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: Because it doesn't actually work. And I do agree. 165 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: That President Trump has an argue about some prices coming down, right, 166 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: he could talk about gas prices coming down he can 167 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: make that argument, but it's very hard to make the 168 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: conversation and the argument and Toto as some kind of 169 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: complete thing that everything has come down when it hasn't, 170 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: some of which could be attributed to Trump policies and 171 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: some of which are just remnants still of Biden policies. 172 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: But I'm going to put that to the side for now. 173 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: Because you have a Part two conversation really as a 174 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: second story as it's been enveloping the political right. 175 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: And no, I do not believe there's a civil war. 176 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: There is no civil war in the political right at 177 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 2: all in my view. 178 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: But this the gropers are losing, and you've got the 179 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: picture of Nick Fuentes right there. This is playing on 180 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: the fringes, except the people it's playing on the fringes 181 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: with have very large scale audiences. And so to the 182 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: extent that I am remiss to bring it up because 183 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: giving these people airtime is gross in my tape, my view, 184 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: my take, it has to be done because you have 185 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: to understand what's happening. 186 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: So let's start from a baseline. Noah Rothman, what in the. 187 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: World is a groper and what possibly is the argument 188 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: here that they are losing considering Flentes is now get 189 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: in time with Tucker and Tucker's getting a defense from 190 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, et cetera. 191 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: So gropers are the name that has been adopted by 192 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 3: fans of Nick Flentes who mimic his affect and share, 193 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: to one degree or another, his outlook. And Nick Flentes's 194 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: outlook is explicitly racist. He has described himself as a racist, 195 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: described himself as a Hitler fan said, you know, women 196 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 3: want to be raped, et cetera. So forth, he's a 197 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: provocateur and he strikes the most anti social position you 198 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 3: could possibly imagine, and that's very attractive to his fellow provocateurs, 199 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: some of whom are just purely nihilistic. To describe them 200 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: as concerned of a republican even is to a tribute 201 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: to the mediological motives they don't have. They do have 202 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: small audiences. They have disproportionate influence in the halls of power, 203 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: particularly on the American right, and the American right has 204 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 3: engaged this influence after it was It became a scandalizing 205 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: controversy when Heritage President Kevin Roberts put out this video, 206 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: a really sordid video, in my view, consisting that he 207 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: was defending, he would not defend or he would not 208 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 3: dissociate his institution from Tucker Carlson, with whom he has 209 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: this very deep and enduring bond, because that would be 210 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 3: to intervene in a conversation on the American right, and 211 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 3: we would direct all our fire on the American left. 212 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: It was self evidently false, if only because Tucker Carlson 213 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 3: does not engage in that same project. I don't remember 214 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 3: the last time he criticized the left at any length. 215 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 3: His political project is to co op the right and 216 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: undermine its institutions and shape and change the direction of 217 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: its political evolution in a far more paranoid and conspiratorial direction. 218 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: That's self evidently the case. And Kevin Roberts put his 219 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: thumb on the scale for that while saying he wasn't ignited. 220 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 3: This conversation on the right that I think is entirely salutary, 221 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: totally healthy, and it actually puts in stark relief the 222 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: Democratic parties avoidance of this question when they were confronted 223 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 3: with violent anti Semites who tore at the emergency fencing 224 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 3: around the Democratic National Convention like a zombie horde. You know, 225 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: its members would say they have a point. The President 226 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: would say they had dobbed by Joe Biden. They have 227 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: a point. Tim Waltz would say, you know, or rather 228 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 3: Kamala Harris would say, they have exactly the right emotion 229 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: when confronted with the horrors that were witnessing in the 230 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 3: Middle East, and you know, et cetera, so forth. As 231 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: late as Halloween in twenty twenty four, the Associated Press 232 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 3: said that the Kamala Harris campaign was trying to integrate 233 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 3: these individuals into their mood movement and validate their concerns 234 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: quote unquote, so that could harness their energy. There is 235 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: an element of that on the right that sees the 236 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 3: passion and verve with which the racist elements that are 237 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 3: very provocative and very inflammatory signal to them the illusion 238 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 3: that they're talking about a much broader spectrum of American 239 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 3: American voters and there could be political power there. So 240 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: we can't afford to alienate them. You alienate one, if 241 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 3: you throw anybody under the bus one Sister Soldier moment, 242 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 3: you can lose the whole coalition. And why I think 243 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: that this whole moment has been really healthy and revealing 244 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 3: is because we're all living in Plato's cave. We don't 245 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: really know how many gropers there are and how powerful 246 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 3: and influential they are until they're tested. And when they're tested, 247 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 3: and they have been tested, we've seen them show a 248 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 3: lot of leg they have been on the back foot. 249 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: Kevin Roberts is now, i think, on his fourth apology 250 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: for that video. Yeah, he's been backtracking ever since. Just 251 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: About every Republican of stature who doesn't ingratiate themselves to 252 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: the fringes of American political thought has come out against 253 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: this movement. The Wall Street Journal, Ben Shapiro, the newly 254 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: revamped Washington Post opinion page, which is far more conservative 255 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 3: than it used to be. You're seeing the institutions on 256 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 3: the American right sort of come out and have some spine, 257 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: shows some self confidence, and evince the conservative principles that 258 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 3: have been not in fashion on the American right for 259 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: the better part of a decade. I think that's pretty heartening. 260 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: And it's only because they've seen how little actual actual 261 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 3: power that this faction of the American right can bring 262 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 3: to bear when it's really tested. And I think that's 263 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: going to be helpful for everybody who wants to who 264 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: wants some clarity about just how powerful this group of 265 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 3: malcontents are.