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Speaker 1: Live from Vall Hartland and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 2: I have made this argument now a few times, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: The only one making the argument, but I.

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Speaker 2: Often think on this one subject, am I not being

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Speaker 2: clear enough?

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Speaker 1: Which is insane for me to think.

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Speaker 2: You guys have known me now long enough to know

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty clear. Tony Katz, Tony kats today. Good to

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Speaker 2: be here, Good to be with you. The United States

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Speaker 2: is doing outrageously well in taking out the Iranian threat.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe we should leave until the regime is

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Speaker 2: completely gone, totally gone, no concept of supporting terrorism, no

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Speaker 2: concept of anybody connected to the Iatola in a position

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Speaker 2: of power, and I would like to not have to

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Speaker 2: think about the Middle East for five minutes. But as

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Speaker 2: that is happening, we've got people on the political left

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Speaker 2: and on the woke right who to me very much

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Speaker 2: seem like they're rooting for America to lose, or really,

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Speaker 2: if I could be more clear, for Donald Trump to lose.

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Speaker 2: They don't actually hate the military, but as long as

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Speaker 2: Trump loses, they're somehow better off with their methodology, their psychology.

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Speaker 2: It's really and truly obscene and even though Trump is

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Speaker 2: doing well, he does things like calling Iran an excursion

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Speaker 2: that kind of minimizes the threat to our military and

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Speaker 2: what happened to thirteen soldiers who.

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Speaker 1: Lost their lives in this fight.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm clear, but sometimes I don't think I'm

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Speaker 2: perfectly clear.

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Speaker 1: Noah Roffman joins me right now.

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Speaker 2: You catch his work at National Review Nationalview dot com.

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Speaker 2: His third book, Blood and Progress, A Century of Left

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Speaker 2: Wing Violence, will be available in May. You find at

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Speaker 2: Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold.

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Speaker 1: You can pre order right now. You have the the

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Speaker 1: Iran War successes.

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Speaker 2: They don't want you to hear about you. You're not

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Speaker 2: a historian by trade, but you are a man who studies.

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Speaker 2: Do we take a look at what we have seen

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Speaker 2: and base it on other events and history in terms

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Speaker 2: of world wars, in terms of actually declared wars? Are

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Speaker 2: we talking about seeing what we've seen with Iran comparing

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Speaker 2: it to other actions that have taken place over the

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Speaker 2: last thirty years.

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Speaker 3: Well, in that piece, I try to make the point,

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Speaker 3: and it's an over long piece. It's like twenty seven

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Speaker 3: hundred words, but it need it to be very long

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Speaker 3: in order to be comprehensive because there is so many

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Speaker 3: misapprehensions floating around. And yeah, and the piece I make

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Speaker 3: the claim that compared to what is the most important

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Speaker 3: question that you can ask yourself in these sort of situations,

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Speaker 3: because it grounds you in counterfactuals that other people can

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Speaker 3: actually test and scenarios. For example, all the wargames that

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Speaker 3: we've been running against Iran over the last thirty years,

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Speaker 3: and compared to what indicates that we're doing spectacularly well

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Speaker 3: on the battlefield tactically. And you know, people are very

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Speaker 3: quick to note, well, tactical games do not beget strategic successes,

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Speaker 3: which I write in that piece that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who have just recently stumbled into that little piece

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Speaker 3: of insight and then you know, bandied about as though

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Speaker 3: they know this is their discovery, and therefore you probably

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Speaker 3: weren't aware of it either. But no, it's pretty obvious

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Speaker 3: that you can make the case that the United States

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Speaker 3: fumbles the post war has probably you could argue since

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty five, we're not there yet entirely theoretical, and

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Speaker 3: the coverage of this war from its outset, from day one,

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Speaker 3: has been focused almost exclusively on the strategy at the

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Speaker 3: expense of the tactics. And that's like covering the end

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Speaker 3: of a novel by skipping over the first chapters. You

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Speaker 3: don't know what you're looking at, you can't accurately assess

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Speaker 3: what you're seeing, and you can't relate to the public

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Speaker 3: in a way that conveys the totality of the information

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Speaker 3: that you want to convey by focusing on the post

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Speaker 3: war environment in the middle of the war. And I

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Speaker 3: think it's absolutely right what you've said that there is

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Speaker 3: a contingent in the press, international and domestic, as well

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Speaker 3: as in the political class. By the way, American Democrats

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Speaker 3: and Republicans who want to see Donald Trump fail, not

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Speaker 3: the war, not the American people, not the soldiers. They

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Speaker 3: want to see BB and Donald Trump humiliated, and whenever

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Speaker 3: they have the opportunity, they rush to that conclusion to

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Speaker 3: see some sort of indignity visited upon the president, like

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Speaker 3: what we saw on Monday and the immediate aftermath of

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Speaker 3: the President saying, you know, I was going to hit

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Speaker 3: these power plants in five days. I'm going to put

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Speaker 3: that off for a second because we're talking behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes with Iranians and the rush on the part of

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Speaker 3: mainstream reporters, really knowledgeable folks who understand warfare, people like

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Speaker 3: Garislav Trofemov over at the Wall Street Journal Jonathan Martin

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Speaker 3: at Politico insisted without any evidence that Trump was just

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Speaker 3: making it up, attempting to manipulate oil markets, or trying

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Speaker 3: to find some sort of off ramp for this disastrous

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Speaker 3: situation he's gotten himself into. And it was true and true.

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Speaker 3: There was no evidence behind it. It was a supposition

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Speaker 3: based only on their own prejudices, and it exposed the

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Speaker 3: on prejudices. I'm happy to criticize the president's rhetoric. I

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Speaker 3: think you're right calling this an excursion merely to avoid

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Speaker 3: going to Congress for war powers or saying that the

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Speaker 3: war is won, even as the tempo of combat operations accelerates. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it gives people misgivings. They don't think you're taking this seriously,

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Speaker 3: or they think you're gulling them into a narrative that

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Speaker 3: is not true. And the people do not trust this president.

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Speaker 3: He's made it clear that he doesn't trust them either.

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Speaker 3: He's not going to them with the proper rationale and

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Speaker 3: asking them to bear and endure the sacrifices that this

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Speaker 3: war has already imposed on them. He really should. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that has nothing to do nothing to do with combat operations,

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Speaker 3: the efficacy of Israeli military operations on the ground, or

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Speaker 3: the strategic elements that we're putting in place for a

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Speaker 3: longer campaign against this regime, the destruction of which is

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Speaker 3: the only way we're going to eliminate the threat from

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Speaker 3: its missile in nuclear programs.

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Speaker 2: The hardest part of this conversation, Noah Noah Rothman, National

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Speaker 2: Review dot Com is that people have a hard time

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Speaker 2: with the idea that you can be laudatory and get

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Speaker 2: engaging in excruciating details failures at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't find it difficult. Well, you're a special free.

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Speaker 3: Too, oh, Tony. I have heard in arguments over this

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Speaker 3: war from my friends, from my allies, people with whom

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Speaker 3: I usually agree a lot of first person pronouns when

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Speaker 3: talking about this war. I think my friends, me and

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Speaker 3: others who have a certain outlook on this war, whose

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Speaker 3: personal brand is bound up in skepticism and critic and

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Speaker 3: being critical of Trump and being supportive of Trump whatever

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Speaker 3: it is seeing this war through the prism of domestic

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Speaker 3: politics and their position within domestic politics. And that's just

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Speaker 3: the wrong way to look at it. It's very parochial,

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Speaker 3: a little bit selfish, and it results in that analysis.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen a lot of that analysis on the

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Speaker 3: tactical and strategic levels.

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Speaker 2: Let's engage a little bit of analysis on two things. First,

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Speaker 2: the idea of the five day pause. He puts out

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Speaker 2: the post untruth social you're gonna stop this or I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna take out basically all of your energy, the any

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Speaker 2: energy reserves here, any power plant over here.

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Speaker 1: And then before that forty eight.

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Speaker 2: Hours he gives is up, he says a five day pause.

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Speaker 2: Then before the five day pauses up, he says ten

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Speaker 2: more days.

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Speaker 1: Now, all of this could all be sub diffused.

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Speaker 2: Right and could lead to you could see a bombing

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Speaker 2: happening as we speak. But the question is these delays

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Speaker 2: is seen as this is a guy really negotiating to

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Speaker 2: try and not engage any more war. Is this something

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Speaker 2: that do we have any news or information that makes

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Speaker 2: us believe that there's actually somebody on the Iranian side,

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Speaker 2: which is at least a legitimate question.

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Speaker 1: If you've killed the leadership, who are we talking to?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't know, I don't know. Subsequent reporting is

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Speaker 3: indicated that there is shuttle diplomacy going on between the

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Speaker 3: United States and whatever representatives of the Iranian government exist presently,

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Speaker 3: and they're being shuttled through representatives for the governments of Pakistan,

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Speaker 3: Egypt and others. I'm forgetting, but at least those two

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Speaker 3: major Muslim powers, and that's perfectly believable. It's not like

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Speaker 3: it's hard to comprehend the notion that there are a

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Speaker 3: back channel contact between two warring parties during a conflict.

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Speaker 3: That happens all the time. So you know, I was

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Speaker 3: not at all predisposed to say that the president was

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Speaker 3: making this up, as so many people did. But the

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Speaker 3: notion here being a bandied about by his critics is

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Speaker 3: one that he was desperate for diplomatic off ramp and

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Speaker 3: is testing, for example, the prospects for diplomacy, which is

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Speaker 3: not necessarily a mark of capitulation or pusillanimity. It's merely

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Speaker 3: an avenue to explore an end to this conflict, which

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Speaker 3: is again not pursuing it, but identifying it. That others

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Speaker 3: said he was manipulating oil markets because of what he

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Speaker 3: says the or is going to end all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: all the horrible things that we're hearing about are happening

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Speaker 3: to the oil markets, which are going to persist for decades,

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Speaker 3: disappear in the markets, and then and oil and West

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Speaker 3: Texas crew go back to normal range prices, and the

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Speaker 3: presidents you know, he has the capacity to do that

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Speaker 3: with a true social post, but he won't have the

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Speaker 3: capacity to do that forever the market price is in

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Speaker 3: jaw boning like that.

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Speaker 1: If it is jow bonding.

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Speaker 3: But there are other possibilities too. Some have suggested that

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Speaker 3: the President could be sowing dissension within the ranks of

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Speaker 3: whatever remains of the leadership, selling paranoia, getting them to

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Speaker 3: think that some people are talking to the Americans, maybe

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Speaker 3: my brothers in arms are going to sell me out.

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Speaker 3: Or maybe he's stalling for time so that this eighty

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Speaker 3: second Airborne and the marine expeditionary units that are en

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Speaker 3: route to the Middle East get there and stand preposition

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Speaker 3: ahead and give the President options for ground operations and

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Speaker 3: islands and the Persian Gulf. All of these could be true.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, none of them could be true.

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Speaker 3: We have no idea and no capacity to evaluate whether

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Speaker 3: or not this is true. A little bit of epistemological

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Speaker 3: humility would be desirable on the part of the people

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Speaker 3: who are trying to assess the information environment, which I

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Speaker 3: guarantee you is deliberately saturated right now with misdirection design

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Speaker 3: not only to misdirect us, but to misdirect our enemies abroad.

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Speaker 3: And that's the sort of thing that's difficult for reporters

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Speaker 3: to assess. They're just giving you the facts, right, so

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Speaker 3: they have to relate every one of these little whether

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Speaker 3: it's true or not. You know, the efforts to manipulate individuals, combatants,

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Speaker 3: noncombatants through the information environment mean and so yeah, we

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Speaker 3: just can't assess it. But you don't see that kind

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Speaker 3: of humility from people who are desperate for evidence that

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump is messing this whole thing up.

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Speaker 2: Let me, I want to rephrase it, because very few

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Speaker 2: people are using a pistemological humility, and let's change it

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Speaker 2: to something that we would say on the streets. It's

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Speaker 2: very okay for the president of the United States, the

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Speaker 2: commander in chief to engage in open deception with the

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Speaker 2: enemy so we can get a better result. That's the

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Speaker 2: argument and the idea that we are not told exactly

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Speaker 2: what the endgame is. When the endgame happens and how

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Speaker 2: everything's can get wrapped up in a bow. That's real life,

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Speaker 2: a real politique, as opposed to what the left wants,

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Speaker 2: which is somehow everything plays up beautifully like in a book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's our video game. No videole have just don't

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Speaker 3: really understand what it's like to win a war anymore

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Speaker 3: because we don't fight to win wars. But even when

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Speaker 3: we were fighting for a draw, like go back to

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Speaker 3: the nineteen ninety one go Forth, we lost like fifty

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Speaker 3: six wing aircraft in that contest. We destroyed our rack's

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Speaker 3: capacity to generate power the entire country dark. That was

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Speaker 3: just how wars were fought, and it.

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Speaker 1: Was bloody and it was brutal.

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Speaker 3: We had people who were shut down, we had people

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Speaker 3: who were killed, we had people who were captured. None

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Speaker 3: of that has happened in this war. And we expect

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Speaker 3: war to be some sort of antiseptic experience. Now that

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Speaker 3: lasts for twelve hours or so, and it's an incredible

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Speaker 3: triumphant experience. Do you think we're the aliens from Independence Day?

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Speaker 3: Like if anybody lays a finger on us, it's mark

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Speaker 3: of a impossible strategic failure. It's very strange, but it's

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Speaker 3: also reflective of just how how much the American people

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Speaker 3: are just not acclimated to an actual, real war fought

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Speaker 3: to a strategic objective. Looks like it looks like the

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Speaker 3: wars that Israel have been fighting since October seven, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three. And that's the kind of war we're fighting.

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Speaker 3: We're fighting a war on an Israeli style term, and

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Speaker 3: it's actually being very successful, and that's freaking people out.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Noah Rothman of National Review, his latest book,

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Speaker 2: Blood and Progress, Essentury of Left Wing Violence, will be

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Speaker 2: available at Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold.

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Speaker 1: May of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: You bring up Israel fighting it in this way, which

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Speaker 2: is fighting to a win or to a victory. I

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Speaker 2: agree wholeheartedly that we have forgotten what victory looks like.

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Speaker 2: Since we live in a broadband world, we expect things

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Speaker 2: to happen at a broadband speed. Can any part of

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Speaker 2: the regime exhist and the US call it victory For

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Speaker 2: President Trump, victory is you know, the first two rules

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Speaker 2: of trump Ism. The first rule is Trump wins, and

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Speaker 2: the second rule of trump Ism is that a deal

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Speaker 2: can always be made as long as that adheres to

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Speaker 2: the first rule. Of trump Ism. So that allows the

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Speaker 2: president to say, at any moment, we did what we

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Speaker 2: came to do. We're done. But if the regime remains

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Speaker 2: in any way, is that success.

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Speaker 3: Well, So, given your stipulation there that the president reserves

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Speaker 3: the right to declare victory and retreat at any point

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Speaker 3: in this conflict, you can't rule that out. I do

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Speaker 3: not want to rule that out, and I think it's

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Speaker 3: wise to keep in mind. The prospect that the president

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Speaker 3: will disengage before we've achieved our tactical and strategic objectives

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Speaker 3: in the combat phase of this war totally possible. However,

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Speaker 3: everybody in this administration, with scars and stripes, stripes on

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Speaker 3: their shoulders, stars and their epulets, have been very clear

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Speaker 3: and have not changed their forecast for how this war

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Speaker 3: was going to unfold and stages. The first stage was

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Speaker 3: to attack Iran's capacity to project power, it's active military assets.

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Speaker 3: The second stage, which we're in right now, is to

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Speaker 3: decimate Iran's capacity to build military assets, its military production facilities,

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Speaker 3: its defense industrial base. All the while, by the way,

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Speaker 3: Israel is attacking regime targets, symbols of regime stability, the

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Speaker 3: terror apparatus, the IRGC, the besiege, the stuff that keeps

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Speaker 3: the Iranian people down or shot in the streets. The

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Speaker 3: third stage is always and was always going to look

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Speaker 3: like defeat for people who want to see a triumphant moment,

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Speaker 3: a definitive point at which the United States can look

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Speaker 3: at the ground and say, Okay, we won. It was

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Speaker 3: going to be a negotiated settlement with somebody who can

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Speaker 3: claim to represent the Iranian people, whether it's the remnants

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Speaker 3: of the Islamic Republic, whether it's some transitional figure who

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Speaker 3: knows that was never part of the plan, never explode,

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Speaker 3: you know, never elucidated precisely who that figure was, because

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Speaker 3: we didn't know that figure was going to be. But

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Speaker 3: when that happens, and it will be negotiated se with

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Speaker 3: whatever remains, then you move on to phase three, which

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Speaker 3: is the quiet process of undermining this regime from within.

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Speaker 3: And everybody has said the IDF Benjamin and Yahoo. Brad

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Speaker 3: Cooper is the head of Sentcom who said as much

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Speaker 3: this week. Quote, there will be a clear signal at

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Speaker 3: some point, as the President has indicated, for you to

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Speaker 3: be able to come out, he told the Iranian people

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Speaker 3: in an interview with an Iranian diaspora outlet. He said,

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Speaker 3: this time has not come yet, but it will. And

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Speaker 3: all the reporting that we have from NPR, from the

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Speaker 3: New York Post, which has gotten in touch with Iranians

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Speaker 3: on the ground, is the Iranian people are waiting for

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Speaker 3: the signal and they are primed. And who knows what

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Speaker 3: we're doing on the ground in order to facilitate the

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Speaker 3: arming of potentially insurrectionary elements, the fomenting of a potentially

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Speaker 3: insurrectionary attack on this regime from within. That's the sort

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Speaker 3: of thing that we're going to engineer later after the combat.

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Speaker 1: Phase is over.

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Speaker 3: We're still in the middle of the combat phase. And

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Speaker 3: I think the biggest hurdle right now everybody acknowledges as

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Speaker 3: the biggest hurdle is opening the Strait of Hormus. And

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Speaker 3: there is the sense that if we allow the Iranian

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Speaker 3: regime to maintain even notional control over the strait such

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Speaker 3: that it's able to extort the ships that come through

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Speaker 3: it for a two million dollars apiece, for example, which

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Speaker 3: is what they're doing now, that it will be a

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Speaker 3: strategic loss. I think it will be a strategic setback,

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Speaker 3: an ambiguous end to this war. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's going to end there, but it could, and if

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Speaker 3: it did, it would not It would fall short of

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Speaker 3: all of our key objectives most certainly. But the notion

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Speaker 3: here that Iran is going to emerge from this, as

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Speaker 3: so many say that Iran is going to emerge from

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Speaker 3: this stronger, more emboldened, more of a regional power, is insane.

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Speaker 3: It's incredible, literally incredible. The notion here that Iran will

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Speaker 3: emerge as this more potent force in the Middle East

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Speaker 3: even when all its military and military industrial complexes are

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Speaker 3: destroyed is bizarre. The notion here that it will be

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Speaker 3: a more potent force in the region even as it

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Speaker 3: has a race the entire Middle East against it. Openly,

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Speaker 3: you have the UAE and the Saudi Arabians flirting with

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Speaker 3: active combat operations against Iran, to say nothing of what

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Speaker 3: they're doing behind the scenes, and the entire Gulf and

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Speaker 3: the Middle East, including places like Syria, Jordan, Egypt, all

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Speaker 3: these places are turning against the Uranium regime. They've always

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Speaker 3: had it, they haven't had exactly had a soft spot

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Speaker 3: for the Mulas, but it's been sort of a cat

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Speaker 3: and mouse game. Little subterfuge here allow these front companies

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Speaker 3: to exist there so they can evade sanctions here. All

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Speaker 3: that stuff is gone, it's not coming back. The Uranian

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Speaker 3: regime is as weak as it's ever been and will continue.

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Speaker 1: To be weak after this war.

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Speaker 3: And it's just it makes no sense to me that

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Speaker 3: so many people are resistant to this obvious notion, Like

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Speaker 3: the argument against it just is very difficult to make,

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Speaker 3: and yet you see so many making it more.

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Speaker 2: With Noah Rothman coming up, keep it here. I'm Tony Katz.

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Speaker 2: This is Tony Katz Today. There's a story out of

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Speaker 2: Fox News that Dave and Busters one of their locations,

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Speaker 2: maybe not the whole company. Tips are being a applied

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Speaker 2: to the post tax total.

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz, Tony kats today. That is not right. I

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Speaker 1: do not tip on tax i tip on whether or

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Speaker 1: not I get good service.

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Speaker 2: And the idea is, well, here's the bill, and then

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Speaker 2: it's fifteen percent of the bill. Well really, now twenty percent?

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Speaker 2: I mean everyone is tipping twenty percent. You may, you

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Speaker 2: may tip less, you may tip more. My problem is

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Speaker 2: is when you're in a you're using a Kioska, would

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Speaker 2: you like to leave a tip?

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Speaker 1: No convenience store.

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Speaker 2: No. The overtipping is madness, But this is an interesting thing.

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Speaker 2: You want to apply a tip to the tax? No,

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Speaker 2: I don't tip the government. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: the idea of tipping the government is exactly what's wrong

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Speaker 2: with a great number of societies.

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Speaker 1: But that's an ugly thing to do. And if, if

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Speaker 1: indeed David Busters.

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Speaker 2: Is doing that, that's a reason not to go.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not an anti David Buster's guy. It's fun.

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Speaker 2: There's arcade games for adults, arcade games and beer.

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Speaker 1: What could go.

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Speaker 2: Wrong aside from everything, But this tipping culture is nuts.

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Speaker 2: Not everything deserves a tip. It certainly doesn't deserve twenty

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Speaker 2: or twenty five percent at all times.

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Speaker 1: But tip on the tax, that's something to look out for.

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Speaker 2: You know how many times that's probably happening out there

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Speaker 2: and people don't know it and they just do it,

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Speaker 2: or somebody's getting added into the bill and people don't

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Speaker 2: really check.

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Speaker 1: Check it's your money. It's okay, it's not rude.

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Speaker 2: And if the service is good, tip well that would

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Speaker 2: be me more to get to.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tony Katzan.

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Speaker 2: This is Tony Katz today. So much of the conflict

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Speaker 2: with Iran war. Listen, I say it's regime change because

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Speaker 2: it is regime change. I think we're fooling ourselves, kidding ourselves,

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Speaker 2: lying to ourselves if we don't call it that.

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Speaker 1: And I don't believe in doing any of those things.

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Speaker 1: Tony Kats, Tony Kats today, Good to be here. Good

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: Noah Rothman stays with us from National Review. His book

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Speaker 2: Blood in Progress, A Century of Left Wing Violence, available

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Speaker 2: at Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold, that

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Speaker 2: will be in May of twenty twenty sixth. You can

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Speaker 2: pre order right now. Blood in Progress, a Century of

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Speaker 2: Left Wing Violence. One of the things that you said

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Speaker 2: earlier was about how the United States is engaging in

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Speaker 2: taking out the Iranian regime in an Israeli way, and

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Speaker 2: you noted, and we've discussed it here before, that since

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Speaker 2: October seventh, Israel has defied all the critics and all

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Speaker 2: the standard norms of how they did things. They'd drop

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Speaker 2: a few bombs, they'd get angry, and then they'd have

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Speaker 2: to relent because of world pressure. Post October seventh, there

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Speaker 2: was no relenting. And I was in Israel some months

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Speaker 2: after October seventh, and it was very clear from people

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Speaker 2: you speak to on the streets and.

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Speaker 1: The feel of that nation.

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Speaker 2: As you observe, they were done every try they gave

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Speaker 2: to the Palestinians, every attempt they gave to build up

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Speaker 2: areas around the Gaza envelope. Those mayors who wanted to

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Speaker 2: build factories and create opportunities and would they would kibbutzes,

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Speaker 2: would go into Gaza and bring people back to work. Well,

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Speaker 2: those are the people who laid out what was happening

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Speaker 2: in the kibbutz is, where the armory was, where people were,

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Speaker 2: where the families were, etc. So Hamas and Palestinians could

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Speaker 2: go in and murder everyone they saw. It was those

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Speaker 2: people who the Israelis were trying to help that helped

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Speaker 2: map out how to kill them. And Israeli said, we've

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Speaker 2: had enough here. And that has been true and that

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Speaker 2: has gone on, and that is what's created so much

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Speaker 2: angst amongst the left in screaming of genocide, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: They can't accept the fact that Israel wouldn't take it.

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Speaker 1: But it's an interesting statement from you.

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Speaker 2: I had not considered this thought process that the United

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Speaker 2: States is doing this in an Israeli way. But we

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Speaker 2: also discuss how many people are rooting for President Trump

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Speaker 2: to fail if Israel wasn't involved. If this wasn't a

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Speaker 2: US Israel operation, but it was a US UK operation,

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Speaker 2: or pick another nation or just the United States, would

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Speaker 2: these same leftists and people on the wolk right be

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Speaker 2: rooting for Trump to fail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, because it has very little. I mean,

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Speaker 3: their antipathy to Israel is total, but their antipathy to

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Speaker 3: the West and the West as represented by the prima

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Speaker 3: interparis the United States of America, the foremost exemplar of

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Speaker 3: the capitalist world, is there was always a permanent factor.

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Speaker 3: And you know, you can go back to the seventies

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Speaker 3: and the sixties and even the early nineteen eighties for

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Speaker 3: the origins of this kind of Marxian approach, to the

435
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: evolution of lessling militancy from Marxian insurgents to pan Arab

436
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: nationalists to Islamist theocrats as they gravitated towards the Islamic Revolution.

437
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 3: All this is very well documented. I actually wrote a

438
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 3: review for Commentary about Jason Burks on this phenomenon. The Revolutionists,

439
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: very good book on the bizarre evolution of the far

440
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 3: left hostility to the capitalist world, manifesting in support for

441
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 3: the Cuban regime and the Cuban regime, support for the

442
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 3: Islamis regime. All these guys are connected in ways that

443
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: you would if you didn't know the actual history of it,

444
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 3: you'd be called a conspiracy theorists for identifying all these

445
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: all these connections. I will say, you stipulated that after

446
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: October seventh, Israel, you know, took the gloves off and

447
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: was not constrained. That is not true. It was constrained

448
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: by the Biden administration. For example, it did not go

449
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 3: into Conunis when it wanted to. When it eventually did,

450
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: it did so in defiance of the Biden administration, where

451
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 3: they eventually captured and killed the yak Ya Suin war,

452
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 3: but they were prevented from doing so. And that's typical.

453
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 3: The United States puts the reins on Israel. The Bush

454
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 3: administration did, the Obama administration certainly did, the Biden administration did,

455
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 3: and even Trump one point zero was you know, cagey

456
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 3: about the extent to which it was supporting and the

457
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 3: flourishing of what would eventually become the Abraham Accords, because

458
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 3: it was a fraud project. Not so after twenty twenty five, Yes,

459
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: Donald Trump took the gloves off. Yes, prosecuted these wars

460
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: alongside Israel in ways that Israel would recognize as the

461
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: way you fight to victory. That's a very new development.

462
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: But you know, is Israel to blame for the hostility

463
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,479
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump is experiencing from the international press, the

464
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 3: international left. Now, I really don't think so. I think

465
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: we would have experienced this exact same phenomenon as we

466
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 3: did after.

467
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: The Iraq War.

468
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: And in the middle of the Iraq War win, the

469
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: Bush administration handcuffed the Israelis, and the Israelis didn't want

470
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 3: us to go into Iraq. They said, focus on Iran,

471
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: that's the head of the snake. And they were also

472
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 3: very cagy and leary about experiencing a Gulf War style

473
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: attack when Sam Hussein's regime drops scud missiles on Israelis

474
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: and they were prevented from responding, They were not allowed

475
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: to respond by Georgie W. Bush's administration, and they did

476
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: not want to repeat that experience. So America's relationship with

477
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 3: Israel has been a lot more fraud than it was

478
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: than it has been under Trump two point zero, and

479
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: the American left well hostile to Israel and the Zionist

480
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: project generally going to this Marxian origin story in the

481
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties is more hostile to Washington

482
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: and more hostile to the United States because it is

483
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: the foremost power in the world that exemplifies hostility to

484
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: the socialist project and the international anti colonialist Project, which

485
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: by the way, are pretty much the exact same thing,

486
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: different derbiage.

487
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: So now take that, put it to the side, but

488
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: just uses a bit of kind of a baseline.

489
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: Let's move this into the woke right.

490
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: We can call that Candice Owens, Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly,

491
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: Alex Jones, these people who are telling us that Trump

492
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: was dragged into this by Israel as opposed to how

493
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: you're discussing things that Israel's often constrained by the United States.

494
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't actually go the other way around. And then

495
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: we get into JD.

496
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: Vance and a lot of people for months now been

497
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: discussing that JD Vance's relationship with Tucker Carlson is going

498
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 2: to hurt him in a general Come twenty twenty eight,

499
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 2: other people say that Jade Vance is the guy that

500
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: of the woke right because he understands that this relationship

501
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: with Israel is leading to America's downfall. I argue that

502
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: we see people in the medium, We see the woke

503
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: right pushing this idea that we're losing, or we're failing,

504
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: or they want to see Trump lose, and it is

505
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 2: a wholly un American proposition. It's said very generally, and

506
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: that what they are looking for is for us to

507
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: learn our lesson that we should be. You might refer

508
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: to it as isolationist. I would refer to it as

509
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: we can't get involved in these entanglements even when removal

510
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: of terrorism is clearly to our benefit. Is Jade Vanson

511
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: in between a rock and a hard place? Or did

512
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: he put himself there?

513
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: I'll put it this way.

514
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 3: There is a large contingent within the United States that

515
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 3: does want to see a humbler foreign policy has for generations.

516
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: This is what George W. Bush ran on in the

517
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: year two thousand. But there's a smaller contingent within that

518
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: broader universe that believes that the United States needs a

519
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 3: humbler fall up foreign policy, and if it won't execute

520
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 3: a foreign humbler foreign policy in its own, it must

521
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 3: be humbled. And the people around JD Vance's camp do

522
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: seem to be members of that contingent. We have a

523
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: piece in Axios today that sparked my absolute frustration, a

524
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 3: visceral level of hostility to what was coming out of

525
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: JD Vance's allies, because they're actively attempting to drive a

526
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 3: wedge between the United States and Israel in wartime against

527
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 3: an implacable foe. Maybe not the Vice President himself, but

528
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: his people are telling reporters Barack Reviede and Mark Puto

529
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 3: at Axios that the Vice President is willing to play

530
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: his part, and he has his thoughts on this war.

531
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 3: We all must be a breast of Jade Vance's internal

532
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 3: torment at this moment, and they believe that the that

533
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: Benjamin Nia who sort of guld the President into this war,

534
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: promised him that this would be some sort of a

535
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 3: very quick, clean, triumphant campaign, which we have not heard

536
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: from public statements from any of the people who are

537
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 3: talking to Axios on background off the record. And also

538
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: that it's an Israeli up against gd said one administration official,

539
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: citing claims that were widely reported on that whatever remnants

540
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 3: we're talking to with Iran are interested in negotiating with

541
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 3: JD Vance alone in part because they understand him to

542
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 3: be more skeptical of this war. And they understand him

543
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: to be more skeptical of this war. Because he's more

544
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: skeptical of this war. He has made no secret about it.

545
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: His allies have made no secret about it.

546
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: They want.

547
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: His brand was built on the notion that the United

548
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: States is overextended abroad and needs to retrench behind its

549
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: oceans into its shores. This is the argument that has

550
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 3: been bandied about by the restrainers, the quote unquote self

551
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: described restrainers in the Pentagon for years, even before this

552
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: administration was inaugurated. And J. D. Vance has aligned himself

553
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: with them. And now that his stock is falling, and

554
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: his stock is falling, I don't live inside Washington, but

555
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: I keep my ear to the door, and it's not

556
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: hard to hear the extent to which people inside the

557
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: Republican orbit and Trump's orbit are losing their taste for JD. Vance.

558
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: Think he's being upstaged by Marco Rubio. Think he's a

559
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: worse political talent. The President himself has said as much

560
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: in his unguarded moments, and he's going to say a

561
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: louder and as we move forward.

562
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to and They're panicked about it real quick.

563
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 2: I think the word on the street is that they

564
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: view Marco Rubio in higher regard than JD.

565
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Vans.

566
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: And that's not to say that the street, Midwest main

567
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: Street views JD.

568
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: Vance in a low regard.

569
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: But I absolutely wholeheartedly would say if you pulled one

570
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: hundred people on the streets, ninety five of them would

571
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: think more of Marco Rubio and his presentation than Vance.

572
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: I think that that's an accurate assessment.

573
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just being upstaged. And the president, who comes

574
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: from television, is a television critic, is very sensitive to

575
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 3: the degree to which an audience perceives talent, and he

576
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: sees Marco Rubio killing it, and he sees Jdvance foundering

577
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: that just it everybody does. It's not hard to notice,

578
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 3: but the people in Jdvance's orbit are freaked out about it.

579
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: Doly so understandably so. And the way they're going about

580
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: repairing that damage is to undermine the bilateral relationship between

581
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: the Washington and Jerusalem in wartime that is extremely reckless,

582
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: extremely negligent, and so self centered, so selipsistic as to

583
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: be contradictory to American strategic aims indeed undermining them, and

584
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: that's a really serious allegation that Jadvance's people need to

585
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: really consider.

586
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Noah Rothman, National Review dot Com. The book Blood and

587
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: Progress essentially have left wing violence pre order that at

588
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: Amazon dot Com, available May of twenty twenty six. Noah,

589
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking the time more to get to

590
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: this is Tony Katz.

591
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Today, we're still engaged in.

592
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: Bombing raids regarding Iran and taking out military targets, but

593
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: President Trump has said we're not going to go after

594
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: any of the energy targets. Meanwhile, the Senate is going

595
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: to fund the Department of Homeland Security, but they're not

596
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: going to fund ICE and Border Patrol, even though ICE

597
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: is already funded through the one big beautiful bill. Yet

598
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: Democrats are claiming they've got this huge win and crazy

599
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: to see media, although totally expect to be like, oh,

600
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: Republicans caved, I don't think that's what happened, Although you're

601
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: very used to Republicans caving.

602
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying.

603
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: Rather, what it looks like is that Democrats held up

604
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: the country for forty one days and didn't get a

605
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: single reform to ICE and the reforms to Ice is

606
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: the only thing they care about because they want illegal

607
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: immigrants in the country and voting, and they care about

608
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: illegal immigrants more than they care about American citizens. That's

609
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: the message they delivered to America. And that's the message.

610
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: Then.

611
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: I think America took Tony Katz Tony Katz today, guys

612
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: a pleasure to be with you.

613
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I think I'm onto something.

614
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: The message taken by America is these people, these Democrats

615
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: want a legal immigrants voting more than they want me

616
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: to be able to travel around my own country.

617
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's accurate. They said it. They have repeated it

618
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: for forty days.

619
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: They didn't care if TSA agents got paid, they didn't

620
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: care if your kids starved, as long as they could

621
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: get votes or the opportunity for those votes. Yes, I'm

622
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: making the accusation quite explicitly, but their own words allow

623
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 2: me to back it up. It's their own words that

624
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: allow me to make this statement. This is who they are,

625
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: this is what they do, this is what they're all about.

626
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: It was Senator Chris Murphy. Senator Chris Murphy is the

627
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: one who said quite clearly about the people they care

628
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: most about. Chris Hayes of MS NOW asking the question the.

629
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 4: Negotiation didn't have a path of citizenship.

630
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: It was entirely on their terms in order to get

631
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: Ukraine funding. Right.

632
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, Chris, that's been a failed play for

633
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: twenty years.

634
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: So you are right that.

635
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 4: That has been the Democratic strategy for thirty years, maybe,

636
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 4: and it has failed to deliver for the people we

637
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: care about most, to the undocumented Americans that are in

638
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 4: this country.

639
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: His words, and you know I had actually said I

640
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: said this on newsmacs and other places. Maybe he misspoke,

641
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: Maybe he was trying to put a comment in there.

642
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anywhere where he has tried to correct

643
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: the record.

644
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: I only have to use the Democrats' words against them

645
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: to be able to show what they're all about. And

646
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: I think Americans see it exactly that way. But with

647
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: all of this, there is a story, and the story

648
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: is about a congresswoman by the name of Sheila Cherfilis McCormick, Democrat,

649
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: who has been indicted and who the House Ethics Panel

650
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 2: found guilty of twenty five violations, bipartisan panel of lawmakers

651
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: voting to start the process that could lead to her expulsion.

652
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: Why the allegation is she laundered millions of disasterly funds

653
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: into her campaign account. She's facing federal criminal indictment ranging

654
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Speaker 2: from using ineligible funds to finance her campaigns, repeatedly filing

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00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: false financial disclosure forms, seeking special favors with recipients of

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00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: earmark funding requests. Now they won't meet until after Easter

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Speaker 2: to recommend punishment, which could be expulsion. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be expulsion, and Democrats are going to have a very

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Speaker 2: hard time being behind her because they would have gone, well, okay,

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Speaker 2: well maybe she was found guilty here or guilty there.

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Speaker 2: We're not gonna do anything until she's convicted of a crime.

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Speaker 2: But the very idea that the House Ethics Panel by partner,

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Speaker 2: is like, yeah, yeah, this is a lot of violations,

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Speaker 2: a ton of violations.

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Speaker 1: Expect her to be gone. She's from Florida.

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Speaker 2: By the way, the House Ethics Panel finding her guilty

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Speaker 2: of nearly all alleged violations, So there were twenty six

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Speaker 2: alleged violations. She was found guilty of counts one to fifteen.

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Speaker 2: It counts seventeenth through twenty six, which would say that

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Speaker 2: there was only one where they were like, nat, she

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Speaker 2: didn't do that. Keep an eye on how that might

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Speaker 2: affect the balance of the house. Find everything at Tony

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Speaker 2: kats dot com. I'll catch you money to everyone.

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Speaker 1: Take care