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Speaker 1: And good afternoon, and welcome to the Gun Guy Show

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Speaker 1: here on ninety three WIBC. We've got a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk about, as we always do. What did IMPD recently

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Speaker 1: say about protesters with guns? Is the ATF maintaining the

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Speaker 1: legal database contrary to the Firearm Owners Protection Action nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty six? That why is a magazine locking device manufacturer?

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Speaker 1: If you live in Indiana, like most of our listening audience,

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Speaker 1: you probably have no idea what a magazine locking device

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Speaker 1: even is, since no such things required here. But there

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Speaker 1: is such a thing, and a company who makes them

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Speaker 1: is actually going to pay the victims of the mass

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Speaker 1: shooting last year in Buffalo, New York, a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of money. And why is that. We'll get into all

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Speaker 1: those things, and as always, take your calls. We love

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Speaker 1: it when our listeners call in and participate in the broadcast.

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Speaker 1: Three one seven two three nine ninety three is the number.

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Speaker 1: We'll take your calls throughout the show. Three one seven

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Speaker 1: two three nine ninety three ninety three. But before we

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Speaker 1: do all of that, I'm really excited about our first guest.

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Speaker 1: I've been excited about this conversation really since I recently

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Speaker 1: went out to Wisconsin and I went to the headquarters

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Speaker 1: of the US Concealed Carry Association. And I've talked about

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Speaker 1: this on the show a couple of times and how

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Speaker 1: much I enjoyed going out there. But I did an

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Speaker 1: interview as part of that trip for what's called the

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Speaker 1: Attorney Insider series that's published by broadcast by the US

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Speaker 1: Concealed Carry Association. I need to be a USCCA member

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Speaker 1: to see that, as well as to utilize the other

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Speaker 1: resources that USCCA provides online and otherwise. But I did

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Speaker 1: that interview with the director of Training and Education for

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Speaker 1: us CCA, and that's a gentleman named Rob Chadwick. And

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Speaker 1: I've mentioned Rob before. You've seen me post or rep

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Speaker 1: some of his social media interviews or his Fox News

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Speaker 1: interviews more accurately, and I tend to screw up his

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Speaker 1: resume more often than not. So I'll have Rob go

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Speaker 1: go into all of that. But right now on the

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Speaker 1: drive Hubler dot com hotline, we've got Director of Training

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Speaker 1: and Education for u s CCA, Rob Chatwick. So Rob,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I consider you a friend, even

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Speaker 1: though we only just spent a morning and afternoon together.

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Speaker 1: But I can't tell you how I am that you

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Speaker 1: called in. Thanks so much. Yeah, it's great to be

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed listening to your intro there. I can't

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Speaker 3: imagine a stronger one. Love that love that bumper.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fun. When they offered me a radio show

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Speaker 1: here at w ABC, like I don't know, eleven plus

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Speaker 1: years ago out I guess now we you know, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about how that would work, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, can I choose my own theme song?

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Speaker 1: And the program director was like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: And I wanted the big Head Todd and the Wailers

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Speaker 1: and the boom boom boom song. That was like my

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Speaker 1: only condition. You don't have to pay me anything. I'll

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Speaker 1: come down to do radio, but I want that theme song.

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Speaker 1: So I had a lot of fun with that. But hey,

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, some folks listening on the

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Speaker 1: radio may not even fully understand what u s CCA

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Speaker 1: is the US Concealed Carry Association. Let's start there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: tell folks a little bit about u s CCA. What

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Speaker 1: they what they ought to know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, I'll tell you what the USCCA is.

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Speaker 3: The United States Concealed Carry Association's been around a little

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Speaker 3: over twenty years and it is. It is the fastest

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Speaker 3: growing Second Amendment organization in the country. We have we're

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Speaker 3: nearing nine hundred thousand members. Guys, you know, people just

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Speaker 3: like you and me who are concerned about you know,

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Speaker 3: protecting themselves their families, doing it the right way. And

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Speaker 3: you know, the members of the USCCA when you join,

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Speaker 3: the minute you join, you have access to I believe,

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Speaker 3: unmatched training education resources. We have a online and resource

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Speaker 3: that is unmatched that you know, you and I did

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Speaker 3: a piece for it. We talk about a little bit, uh,

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Speaker 3: the Attorney Insider series that resides on our Protector Academy,

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Speaker 3: and that is that is for our members to you know,

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Speaker 3: log in and train at home, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 3: on your on your cell phone, you know, on your

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Speaker 3: way home from work or something. But uh, we're on

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Speaker 3: the desktop or anywhere. And that's just a piece of it.

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Speaker 3: You know. One of the big pieces that that I

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Speaker 3: think one of the most important pieces of membership is

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Speaker 3: the minute you join, guy, you are covered by the

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Speaker 3: U s c CIA's unmatched Self Defense Liability Insurance policy.

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Speaker 3: Right You're added to this this group membership And I

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Speaker 3: tell you what, man, you know, they're there are attorneys

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Speaker 3: all over the country, some of the most experienced, including yourself,

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Speaker 3: who represent our members in court if they are forced to,

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Speaker 3: you know, into a self defense situation. And I would

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Speaker 3: you and I talk more about this and a little bit,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure, but you know, self defense is such an

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Speaker 3: interesting and almost a niche.

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Speaker 2: Area of the law.

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Speaker 3: You don't want just any lawyer representing you if you

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Speaker 3: have to defend yourself or your family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so true, and listen, this is real. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: have people ask me about us CCA, and you know,

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Speaker 1: some other i'd say competitive programs out there have put

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Speaker 1: out a number of hit piece videos going after us

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Speaker 1: CCA saying, well, they don't really honor their policy and

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Speaker 1: they're looking for any excuse not to represent members who

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Speaker 1: get accused of committing a crime for a self defense

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Speaker 1: situation or get sued in a civil matter. And I

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Speaker 1: have a real quick rebuttal for him, because I represent

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Speaker 1: clients under the u SCCA's coverage and us CCA writes

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Speaker 1: the checks. And I know because I send them the

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Speaker 1: bills and they pay me. So this is not this

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Speaker 1: is not anything but a completely legitimate program. I have had,

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Speaker 1: by the way, USCCA insurance since twenty twelve. I'm one

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Speaker 1: of the ogs in terms of that INSURAN program for

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Speaker 1: my own self since I carry a gun, obviously I

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Speaker 1: may use that gun at some point. And I know

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Speaker 1: how expensive it is to defend yourself, whether it's criminal

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Speaker 1: criminal culpability that you're being accused of or in a

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Speaker 1: civil case. So that that's real and UH and I

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Speaker 1: have that relationship with U s c c A through

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Speaker 1: their insurance UH coverage. But but listen, before you came

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Speaker 1: into U s c c A, Rob, you had a

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Speaker 1: whole nother career and that was in the FBI. That

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Speaker 1: that that has to put you in a pretty uniquely

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Speaker 1: qualified position to be director of Education and Training for

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Speaker 1: U s c c A. If anything, you may be

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Speaker 1: overqualified for that position. But tell folks a little bit

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Speaker 1: about what you did at the FBI before joining U

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Speaker 1: s c c A.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that guy, Yeah, man, I had. I had

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Speaker 3: a tremendous honor to, you know, represent the United States

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Speaker 3: as a member of the FBI, UH internationally, you know,

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Speaker 3: several times. But I actually started my law enforcement career

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Speaker 3: as a police officer where I grew up in Fairfax, Canterinion,

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Speaker 3: just outside of Washington, d the suburb of DC, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, thirty years in UH.

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Speaker 3: I did seven years as a as a policeman in

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Speaker 3: UH in Fairfax County. They actually got to be a

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Speaker 3: member of the Special Operations Division of canine handler, which

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Speaker 3: is the greatest job period. I mean, it's unbelievable how

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Speaker 3: much fun I had as a as a police canine handler.

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Speaker 3: But then had the opportunity to go with the FBI,

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Speaker 3: and and and then you know, I joined and first

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Speaker 3: office agent down in Miami before September eleventh, and of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, work working major drug trafficking organizations until the

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Speaker 3: morning of September eleventh, and then of course everything changed.

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Speaker 2: UH worked a lot of national security stuff.

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Speaker 3: Most of my career was spent in the tactical program UH.

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Speaker 3: And then ended up the last few years. I went

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Speaker 3: up to d C when the Attorney General Barr was

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Speaker 3: r a g under under UH President Trump his first administration.

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Speaker 4: UH.

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Speaker 3: And then when when mister Barr you know, told me

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Speaker 3: he wasn't coming back regardless of the of the outcome

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Speaker 3: of the election, and you know that I knew it

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Speaker 3: was time for another another job, because let me tell you,

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Speaker 3: man that man William William P. Barr is one of

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Speaker 3: the best people I know. A lot of people have

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Speaker 3: some problems with him. He had a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a falling out with the President. But there is no

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Speaker 3: more solid American, more more dedicated to the Constitution of

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Speaker 3: the United States, to religious freedoms, firearms protection. That guy

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Speaker 3: was was one of my heroes and is one of

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Speaker 3: my heroes. Actually he wrote the forward to my book,

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Speaker 3: which was a tremendous honor for me, but one of

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Speaker 3: he When you know, when mister.

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Speaker 2: Barr said he was stepping away, I.

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Speaker 3: Had the great opportunity and just the dream job of

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Speaker 3: a lifetime. I got to run the tactical training program

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Speaker 3: at Quantico for the Bureau, in which I did for

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Speaker 3: several years before I retired. And then I found the USCCA.

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Speaker 3: I you know, as a as a law enforcement officer,

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Speaker 3: I hadn't really thought much about it, uh, And then

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Speaker 3: when I retired, I realized, you know, I no longer

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Speaker 3: have that qualified immunity and the federal government resources behind me.

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Speaker 3: When you know, when I when I got into my

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Speaker 3: car and started hitting south from Quantico Marine Corps Base

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Speaker 3: in Virginia, there I realized I am on my own man,

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Speaker 3: and I started doing my research, and as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: there's some competitors, and competitions great, that's what America is

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Speaker 3: all about. But I settled on the USCCA guy and

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Speaker 3: and I've been very happy. I was a member first,

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Speaker 3: then I became an instructor because I worked with a

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Speaker 3: lot of private clients, and then through through several conversations,

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Speaker 3: I got invited to come, you know, apply to be

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Speaker 3: their Director of Education Training, which I have been for

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Speaker 3: several years now, and just transition to their my new

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Speaker 3: title is a Principal Training Advisor. We actually brought in

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Speaker 3: a very very good friend of mine, and you know,

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Speaker 3: anytime you have an opportunity to bring in someone better

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Speaker 3: onto your team, you make room. And so a guy

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Speaker 3: named Mike Sieglander, who's a great friend of mine, an

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Speaker 3: incredible shooter and one of the best instructors I've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: He literally wrote the book about firearms instructor, how to

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Speaker 3: be one, And you know, we had an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: bring them on to the team, and so we did.

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Speaker 3: And so Mike and I work very very closely together

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Speaker 3: now in the training program for the u s CCA.

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Speaker 1: Well, now you say talking about will you talk about

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Speaker 1: training and education. You know, a lot of folks think

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Speaker 1: of u s CCA just as a resource in the

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Speaker 1: sense that they put out a great magazine, there are

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Speaker 1: resources online. Their reciprocity page has been a go to

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Speaker 1: for a lot of folks. And then, of course the

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Speaker 1: carry insurance I think as a shorthand way a lot

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Speaker 1: of us refer to that insurance program. A lot of

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Speaker 1: folks don't understand that u SECA has also become a

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Speaker 1: real premier training organization that has certified instructors in every

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Speaker 1: state in the country and is doing some pretty high

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Speaker 1: end training and training a lot of Americans on how

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Speaker 1: to responsibly, safely and effectively use their firearms. And that's

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Speaker 1: not a sales pitch. I'm not a u SECA instructor personally,

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Speaker 1: but I know a lot of folks who are, and

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Speaker 1: they tend to be the better instructors in any given

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Speaker 1: area I've just observed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I tell you what, you know.

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Speaker 3: My mission, and along with everyone else in the instruction

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Speaker 3: and training and education side of the house are and

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Speaker 3: including all the way up through corporate. Of course, our

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Speaker 3: mission is to prepare people for the before, during, and

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Speaker 3: after a self defense incident, and with the heavy infidences

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Speaker 3: on the before. If I can train somebody, if I

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Speaker 3: can equip them with the situational awareness and the self

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Speaker 3: confidence and you know, just the decisive decision making capability

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Speaker 3: to avoid right, It's all about early detection and avoidance.

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Speaker 3: Is you know I mentioned I was on a protection

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Speaker 3: detail for a long time. Man, if we had to

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Speaker 3: use our weapons in defense of the Attorney General, our

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Speaker 3: mission had failed. You know. The whole point of all

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Speaker 3: of us want to go home to our families at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, guy, and we want to

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Speaker 3: have obviously you know, the means to protect ourselves if

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Speaker 3: we need to. But that's a last resort, right, That's

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Speaker 3: a last resort. And so through.

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Speaker 2: Education and training, we want to make sure you have.

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Speaker 3: The skills and the confidence and the confidence to defend

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Speaker 3: yourself and then of course the legal resources to defend

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Speaker 3: yourself if you're forced to do so.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I mean. That pretty much is

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Speaker 1: putting together the whole package. And I love that approach.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. We're a little past a quarter

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Speaker 1: a hour, Rob, Can you come back for another segment

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Speaker 1: because you mentioned just quickly that a former Attorney General

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Speaker 1: William Barr wrote the forward to your book, Well, that's

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Speaker 1: a book called a practical guide. Let me start that over,

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Speaker 1: A Practical Guide to Personal Security, and it's subtitled and

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Speaker 1: I love this, become a competent and confident stakeholder in

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Speaker 1: your own safety. Becoming a stakeholder in your own safety

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Speaker 1: is pretty much everything I stand for within the Second

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Speaker 1: Amendment community. And so that hit accord with me when

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Speaker 1: I saw that you'd written this book. I have a copy.

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Speaker 1: I've got it right here in the studio. I've read it,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very valuable resource. I really want to

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Speaker 1: talk about your book, and have you described that for folks.

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Speaker 1: Let folks know where they can get their hands on

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Speaker 1: one as well.

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Speaker 3: Look forward to it.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back. We're taking a break.

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Speaker 1: This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

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Speaker 1: ninety three WIBC, and welcome back on Guy Relford on

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Speaker 1: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC. We're on

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Speaker 1: the phone with Rob Chadwick of the US Concealed Carry

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Speaker 1: Association and Rob not only coming out of his role

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Speaker 1: as a director of training and Education for USCCA, also

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Speaker 1: an author and has has published a book The Practical

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Speaker 1: Guide to Personal Security subtitled Become a competent and confident

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Speaker 1: stakeholder in your own safety and rob First of all,

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Speaker 1: what motivated you to put this together? Because this is

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Speaker 1: just what it sounds like. It's a practical guide. It's

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Speaker 1: really a roadmap on how to be prepared to potentially

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Speaker 1: defend yourself in a self defense situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it. I tell you, I had an

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Speaker 3: incredible opportunity. The last several years I was at Quantaco,

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Speaker 3: traveled the country, traveled the world, and our our unit's

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Speaker 3: job was to prepare our special agents and also our

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Speaker 3: our state, local, federal, tribal you know, local police officers

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Speaker 3: and sheriffs, deputies and troopers to to come home at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day. Right we were we were

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Speaker 3: teaching them our practical skills and and shooting and moving

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Speaker 3: and all the things that that are hopefully going to

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Speaker 3: bring them home at the end of the day. And

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Speaker 3: and what I saw, unfortunately, I was there the day

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Speaker 3: that George Floyd was killed, and I saw what a

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Speaker 3: what an immediate and disastrous impact you'd had on our

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Speaker 3: law enforcement first responders around the country. And I tell you,

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Speaker 3: I was one of them. You know, I my unit

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Speaker 3: ended up getting deployed to Lafayette Park, you know, and uh,

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Speaker 3: that was a that was really a chaotic situation. You know,

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Speaker 3: here we are based off against American citizens, you know,

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Speaker 3: my fellow citizens who I had sworn to uphold their

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Speaker 3: right to assemble and protest, and I.

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Speaker 2: Still respect that right.

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Speaker 3: But I realized, you know, something's changed in the United States,

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Speaker 3: and uh, you know, but the job that I'm doing

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Speaker 3: is no longer is steady and predictable, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I thought, maybe it's time to get out, and I,

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Speaker 3: you know, me, along with thousands of other experienced officers,

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Speaker 3: decided to leave.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done my time.

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Speaker 3: But I hadn't planned on retiring when I did, and

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Speaker 3: so I retired earlier that I planned, and along with

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Speaker 3: thousands of other experienced officers, left the job earlier than planned.

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Speaker 3: And then I also saw at the same time, because

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Speaker 3: of the defund the police nonsense, the disastrous and just

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Speaker 3: absolutely catastrophic effect this has had and is having and

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Speaker 3: will have on our first responders around the country. You know,

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Speaker 3: you have right now anywhere in the United States, you

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Speaker 3: have agencies or generally anywhere from twenty to thirty percent

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Speaker 3: below minimum staffing.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 3: And guy, that means that it's taking twice as long

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Speaker 3: you call a nine to one one today in America,

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Speaker 3: it takes twice as long for that first responder to

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Speaker 3: get to you did just five or six years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're seeing that right here in India. We're down

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Speaker 1: something like three to four hundred officers right here in Indianapolis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, and then you couple that with what we're seeing

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Speaker 3: happening in Minneapolis and other places around the country. That's

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Speaker 3: just going to speed that decision. These are human beings

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Speaker 3: that are on the other side of that badge, right,

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Speaker 3: and they're making the calculation is it worth it for this,

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Speaker 3: you know, relatively low paying job, relatively high risk job

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Speaker 3: that now you know half the country doesn't seem to

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Speaker 3: support me, and so we are in a real critical

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Speaker 3: dire situation. To me, guy, it's the great untold story

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Speaker 3: in America, the crisis in law enforcement and crisis in security.

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Speaker 3: And so ultimately, regardless of which side of the aisle

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Speaker 3: you you find yourself on, you still call nine one

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Speaker 3: one at the end of the day and hope that they,

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Speaker 3: you know, the cavalry shows up. But as we know,

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Speaker 3: it's taking twice as long or more to get to you.

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Speaker 3: So what are you going to do? What are our

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Speaker 3: fellow citizens going to do when someone kicks in their

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Speaker 3: door two o'clock in the morning and they call nine

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Speaker 3: one one and the nearest help is half an hour away,

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Speaker 3: or maybe like.

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Speaker 2: We saw in Chicago not too long ago, you know.

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Speaker 3: We have no units to send you. No one is coming.

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Speaker 3: And that's not a far fetched thing either, guy. So

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Speaker 3: you know, I wanted to one set the stage and

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Speaker 3: help people just understand and accept reality. You can no

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Speaker 3: longer afford to outsource your personal security, and so what

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Speaker 3: can you do? Thank God, you're an American first of all,

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Speaker 3: and you're protected by the Second Amendment right, and that

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Speaker 3: right gives you the access to the one tool, the

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Speaker 3: firearm that truly can level the playing field between the

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Speaker 3: week and the strong and the hands of someone who

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Speaker 3: knows what they're doing. And so that's why I wanted

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Speaker 3: to write this book, is just to remove all the fluff,

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Speaker 3: remove all the banter, remove all the bravado and posturing,

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Speaker 3: and just say, listen, you know, I think I told

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Speaker 3: you before my hero was Joe Friday, Right, just the fact,

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Speaker 3: and so I try to give people the facts.

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Speaker 2: Let you make up your own decision based on facts.

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Speaker 3: And I think once you know the facts, you realize, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm the head of the household, or I live by myself,

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Speaker 3: I can no longer afford to outsource the security and

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Speaker 3: safety of my loved ones and myself. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: the guide is in there. It's not just about firearms.

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Speaker 3: Of course, there's non lethal, there's medical, a lot of it.

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Speaker 3: Half the book is all about early detection and avoidance,

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Speaker 3: decision making right understanding the realities of violent confrontation. And

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Speaker 3: then of course there's a whole couple of sections of

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Speaker 3: the aftermath about what to expect because most people have

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Speaker 3: no idea, and Hollywood certainly doesn't give us a very

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Speaker 3: good idea of what happens if you are forced to

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Speaker 3: defend yourself with with lethal force, or with any kind

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Speaker 3: of force for that matter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that's sort of the area where I

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Speaker 1: often become involved is where people have gotten caught up

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Speaker 1: in a self defense scenario. Now, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: all the different moving pieces of the system kick in

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Speaker 1: in terms of a criminal investigation, potential civil liability, plus

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Speaker 1: all the things that people don't think about, which is

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Speaker 1: even the emotional response that people go through. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've represented now it's double digits is up to a

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Speaker 1: dozen people that have taken a human life and self defense,

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Speaker 1: and every one of them did so justifiably and legally,

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Speaker 1: some rightly so have been called a hero, including Eli

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Speaker 1: Dicken who say an untold number of lives in the

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Speaker 1: Greenwood Park mall. But I'll tell you what every one

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Speaker 1: of those twelve people, and I know from your law

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Speaker 1: enforcement experience, you're going to know this to be absolutely

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Speaker 1: true as well, and that is every one of those

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Speaker 1: people will tell you it was the worst day of

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Speaker 1: their life and they wish it never happened. They and

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Speaker 1: they don't even understand why people want to pat him

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Speaker 1: on the back and buy him a beer when they

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Speaker 1: went through something that was that emotionally devastating. And that's

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Speaker 1: just part and parcel for most people, the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of people. When you go through something as traumatic as

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Speaker 1: taking another human life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 3: Guy. You know, unfortunately have been part of and investigated

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Speaker 3: many more officer involved shootings and of course criminal you

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Speaker 3: know instances, And I will tell you this when I'm

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Speaker 3: talking to somebody and they're talking about how, you know,

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Speaker 3: they really wish or they're looking forward to, you know,

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Speaker 3: being able to use their firearm in some type of

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Speaker 3: a situation, and I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, Man,

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Speaker 3: here's somebody who's never done it and has no clue

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Speaker 3: what they're talking about. And you know, that's the thing

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Speaker 3: is people just really don't know you expect, guy in

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Speaker 3: the United States of America, if you do something and

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Speaker 3: it's the right thing and it's clear cut as could be,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're still almost certainly going to jail that night.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be detained, You're going to spend quite

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Speaker 3: a bit of time in the system, so to speak.

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Speaker 3: And it's a very very lonely feeling. And don't buy

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Speaker 3: any stretch of that, you know, imagination, think that your

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Speaker 3: story is the only one coming to court. It's not

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Speaker 3: like it is on TV where it's filmed, right, It's

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Speaker 3: all about the storytelling and who believes who. And it

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Speaker 3: could be a very very lonely feeling when you're the

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Speaker 3: other one, you know, standing there at the end of

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Speaker 3: a self defense incident and then you don't know what

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Speaker 3: to do it's a terrible feeling that way too many

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Speaker 3: of our fellow Americans have had.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's absolutely true, and that's why in your book

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Speaker 1: Appropriately So you talk a lot about avoidance, you talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about early detection, you talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: situational awareness, you talk a lot about DS collation, and

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Speaker 1: our chapters on each of those very important topics at

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Speaker 1: the same time, and I have a strong feeling you

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Speaker 1: and I agree on this too, Rob. I will avoid it.

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Speaker 1: I will avoid it if it's at all possible. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, there are times that we see and

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Speaker 1: we see them. We see these situations in the news

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Speaker 1: every week, every day where it's not avoidable, where you

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Speaker 1: are your own first responder and no one's coming to

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Speaker 1: save you. And at that point you need to be

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Speaker 1: as effective as possible and have a plan for being

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Speaker 1: as effective as possible for the defense of yourself, defense

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Speaker 1: of your family, defense of your home. And your book

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Speaker 1: goes into that as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: You know, the most critical element in any crisis, of course,

435
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 3: is time. And it's amazing how fast it fleets, you know,

436
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 3: especially if you're taken unaware or something you know, a

437
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 3: sudden existential threat presents itself. I can guarantee you because

438
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: I've seen it thousands of times. Unfortunately, if you or

439
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: a person, any human being, has never thought about what

440
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 3: they would do in a given situation, right, especially a

441
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: life threatening one, you are not what you mean. You

442
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: are just not going to rise to that occasion.

443
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: Right.

444
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 3: The old saying is you don't rise to the occasion,

445
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 3: you fall back on your training. There's another saying that

446
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 3: the body cannot go where the mind has never been.

447
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: And so it's all about just mental preparation, understanding the law,

448
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 3: understanding your physical capabilities, understanding what are you willing to do?

449
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 3: What are you not willing to do? And ultimately, all

450
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 3: of us want to go home to our families at

451
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 3: the end of the day. And if that means swallowing

452
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 3: some pride, if that means letting the guy just cut

453
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 3: you off and going about, you know, in traffic. I

454
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 3: can't tell you how many terrible situations I've seen resulting

455
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: from road rage. I've yet to see a road rage

456
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: incident resolve well for anyone. Right, just swallow that pride,

457
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: going about your day. The only thing that matters is

458
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 3: that you get home to your loved ones. Your pride

459
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 3: can be healed, right.

460
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: Oh man, And let me piggyback on that point, Rob

461
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: and I don't think this came up in our interview

462
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: for Attorney Insider at U SECA or in our breakfast conversation, which,

463
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: by the way, I could have gone about another four

464
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: hours just chatting over breakfast with you. I really enjoyed

465
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: that conversation. But to pigback on your point, you know,

466
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: say I say this. You know, if you heard me

467
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: pitch my class what I call Essentials of Indiana Gun Law,

468
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: where I try to tell people up front you know

469
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: how the law really works. But at one point, I say,

470
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, about sixty percent of my cases, maybe seventy

471
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: of my cases that I defend that involve things where

472
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: or situations where people were being accused of doing something

473
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: illegal with a gun. And I'm talking about crimes. We

474
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: have a crime here Indiana called point of five. I

475
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 1: have another crime called intimidation with a deadly weapon. I

476
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: have another crime called criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon.

477
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: And of those three crimes, all of which are felonies.

478
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: By the way, there's one scenario where sixty to seventy

479
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: percent of the cases that I defend arise from the

480
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: same scenario. And I'll ask my classes. You know, I

481
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: have a whole room full of forty fifty people in

482
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: the room, and I'll say, you know, what do you

483
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: think that that same scenario I see over and over

484
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: is And people start guessing, you know, a home invasions

485
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: or domestic disputes or you know, people start guessing, and

486
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: almost nobody ever says road rage. And when I tell

487
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: them that, they all look at each other like that's news.

488
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, it is amazing the

489
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: number of cases that come in. I was talking to

490
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: the public information officer from the Indiana State Police just

491
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: recently and who's become a good friend of mine, Sergeant Parrin,

492
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: and he said, in Indianapolis alone, on the interstate that

493
00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: circles Indianapolis, which is i FO sixty five, in twenty twenty,

494
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: they had two hundred and fifty incidents involving either the

495
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: shooting or the brandishing of a firearm during road rage incidents.

496
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: And that's just on the interstate. That's not at all

497
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: the you know, the city streets and intersections and whatnot.

498
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: It is amazingly common. So the advice you just gave

499
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: rob about swallowing your pride. And I even make the point.

500
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: You know, somebody gives me the finger, I just I

501
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: give them my number one finger back to them yet

502
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: number one. Thank you. Have a nice day, and I smile,

503
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: and I keep off the horn, I keep my mouth

504
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: shut and I go on about my day, because nothing

505
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: good can happen once you get caught up in one

506
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: of those situations.

507
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: I tell you, man, it's it's people forget. You know,

508
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: we make the classic mistake, and this happens all the

509
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: time of sort of transferring our sensibilities onto strangers. Right,

510
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: So you're literally hitting feet away. The only thing separating

511
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: you might be two panes of glass. And this person

512
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 3: you're just assuming is not willing to rise or raise

513
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: the level of violence. You have no idea what they're

514
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 3: capable of, what they're what they're willing to do. You know,

515
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, guy, you know, it's

516
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: it's I tell people, you know, I served on the

517
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 3: Attorney General's Protection detail.

518
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: Right.

519
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: We had armored vehicles, we had long guns, we had armor,

520
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: we had lots of training and lots of highly skilled

521
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,239
Speaker 3: operators to take the Attorney General anywhere we needed to go.

522
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, I remind you know,

523
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: our clients and our members listen, all those weapons and

524
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 3: gadgetry and armor and all that was to get us

525
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 3: out of an emergency situation. If there was ever any

526
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 3: indication that there was you know, heightened level of danger,

527
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 3: we would avoid it. We just wouldn't go, or we

528
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: would take a different route, you know, tech a secondary tertiary.

529
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: Drop or whatever, or we just.

530
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: Tell the boss looks so we got to wave off.

531
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's too dangerous that gun. You know,

532
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: when you take your family to the mall, you go

533
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: to a movie or whatever, that concealed weapon is your

534
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: passport out of danger. And I mean it's not to

535
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 3: go looking for it, and it's certainly not to say, well,

536
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: I've got my gun, I can go to this dangerous

537
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 3: part of town.

538
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

539
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: That is your absolute last resort to get you and

540
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: your loved ones home, And believe me, it's the last

541
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: thing anyone really wants to do.

542
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, one of our common listeners, our buddy Kelly,

543
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: is on the chat on the YouTube feed for the

544
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: radio show today and he just posted, you win every

545
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: fight you avoid and I think that's a really nice

546
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: way to summarize exactly what we're talking about. Well, Rob, listen,

547
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: we've gotten way past the bottom of the hour. But

548
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: I could go on for the whole darn show and

549
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: talk about your book and these exact topics, because it's

550
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: just where I live in terms of what I think

551
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: is important and what I do for a living. But

552
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: let's let's leave it with this. Where can people find you?

553
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: But I bought mine on Amazon? And yeah, by the way,

554
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: Rob did not send me a copy of his book

555
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: before we did this interview. I went on Amazon and

556
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: bought my damn book, Rob, you.

557
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 3: I appreciate the support it. I tell you what, man,

558
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: So there's a landing page. It's Practical Security Guide dot com.

559
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 3: That'll just take your right to the to the Amazon

560
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: and it's also I'll tell you if any of your

561
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: listeners have Spotify Premium, it's available for free on Spotify Premium.

562
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: Also a viable on Audible. I recorded it myself along

563
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: with my dad, so if you further listen to it,

564
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 3: it's available that way as well. But thank you, appreciate

565
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: the time, and let's do it again.

566
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, you are welcome, absolutely anytime. I really enjoyed

567
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: the conversation. Again, that's a practical guide to personal security.

568
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: I Rob Chadwick, and Rob, thanks so much. We will

569
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: definitely have you back. And with that, we're taking a

570
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: much needed break. This is Guy Ralford and the Gun

571
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: Guy Show on ninety three WIBC and welcome back. We're

572
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: gonna have kind of a short segment right here to

573
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: get caught up. The interview with Rob Chadwick went long,

574
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: but man, I could talk to that guy all day.

575
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: I'll guarantee you we can fill up an entire without

576
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: any problem. I want to make sure folks understand the

577
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: U s CCA relationship that I have. U s CCA

578
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: does pay me for defending clients under u SCA's insurance.

579
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: That's not exclusive to us c C A. If Armed

580
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: Citizens Legal Defense Network contacted me and said they had

581
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: one of their insurance that wanted to hire me as

582
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: their attorney, I would absolutely do that. Second Call Defense

583
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: is another network that I'm in US law Shield and

584
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: Texas law Shield. I'm in those attorney networks as well,

585
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: so it's not exclusive to that, but I did I

586
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: just got a was it a ten ninety nine from

587
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: us CCA that laid out the fact that they have

588
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: paid me some money in twenty twenty five, and so

589
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: I always want to disclose those kinds of commercial relationships

590
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: where they exist, so that you can take what the

591
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: show content then is in context. But you know, I'm

592
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: not on their payroll. I make no money from people

593
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: joining USCCA. But I always want to be frank with

594
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: our listeners where there's a commercial relationship. And certainly USCCA

595
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: Insurance does pay my legal bills for those cases that

596
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: I defend under that insurance program. And I'll tell you

597
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: with that it's already past the three quarter hour because

598
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: of our previous long segments. Let's go ahead and take

599
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: a break. Now, we'll be back and take your calls

600
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: as well. If you want to join the show. Three

601
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three is

602
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: three one seven nine ninety three ninety three. Join the show,

603
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: you got questions or comments, we'll shift gears, get into

604
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: some other topics and take your calls. Three one seven

605
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: two three nine ninety three ninety three. This is Guy

606
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: Relford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC,

607
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: and welcome back on Guy Relford on The Gun Guy

608
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: show on ninety three WIVC, and as I mentioned right

609
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: at the top of the show, one of the things

610
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: I'm want to to talk about. I saw a headline

611
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: where a company called Mean Industries, Mean Arms in particular,

612
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: has settled a lawsuit where that company is going to

613
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: pay one point seventy five million dollars to survivors and

614
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: their families and victims families rather from the mass shooting

615
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: that occurred in Buffalo, New York and listen, this was

616
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: a horrific situation. This was in twenty twenty two, actually

617
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: at a at a supermarket and a guy apparently with

618
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: racist motivation, an incredible dirt bag, decided he was going

619
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: to go in there and murder as many folks, it

620
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: turns out, people of color as he possibly could. And

621
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: he used at what the left would call an assault rifle, right,

622
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: he used a semi automatic rifle that was equipped with

623
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: a semi or was equipped rather with a well we

624
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: would also call a standard capacity magazine, but what they

625
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: call a high capacity magazine in New York and which

626
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: is illegal in New York. And apparently Mean Arms this

627
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: company manufactures a device which is a magazine lock, that is,

628
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: it locks a magazine into a gun, and the idea

629
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: is that it prevents a high capacity magazine from being

630
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: swapped into that gun. So it it and my understanding

631
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: is that's what may make it legal to some degree

632
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: in New York. Is a magazine lock. Mean Arms sold

633
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: such a device in New York. The shooter had such

634
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: a device, apparently to make his gun ostensibly legal under

635
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: the laws of New York, but he removed it, and

636
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: Mean Arms included on the packaging for its product how

637
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: to remove it. Now it seems to me it's appropriate

638
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: to include that instruction because you may have a gun

639
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: that requires such a device in New York, and then

640
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: you may move. You may move to Indiana, and Indiana

641
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: says use whatever size magazine you want to. It's your

642
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: own damn rifle, at which point it's time to take

643
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: the damn walk off your rifle. And so it makes

644
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: sense that you ought to have the capacity to do

645
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: so and trust people to do that where it's going

646
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: to be legal to do so. And that's true of

647
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: a lot of other firearms components. And people sell buttstocks

648
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: in knowing that if you put a buttstock on an

649
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: unregistered pistol length upper not registered in SBR and you

650
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: put a lower with a buttstock on it. Now suddenly

651
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: it's an unregistered spr which is illegal. Well, that doesn't

652
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: make it a crime to sell the buttstock that turns

653
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: an SBR into a rifle. So I don't have a

654
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: major problem with this company selling device that can allow

655
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: rifles to be legal in New York, but also providing

656
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: instructions on how to remove it. Because you have to

657
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: trust people to do what's legal and not do what's illegal.

658
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: You can sell a rifle even though yes, it's possible

659
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: to take that rifle and go use it in a

660
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: mass shooting, it doesn't make you liable. And where where

661
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: individuals buy a product and the product is lawfully sold

662
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: by the manufacturer or the seller, and then that product's

663
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: used in a crime, that doesn't shift the responsibility away

664
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: from the criminal. That's one thing that so bothers me.

665
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: But here mean arms. To settle this lawsuit is forking

666
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: out seven figures plus one point seventy five million dollars

667
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: survivors and victims families, and listen, it seems to me

668
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: that flies in the face of the Protection for Lawful

669
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: Commerce and Arms Act, which says if you lawfully sell

670
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: a product and it's used in a crime, you're not

671
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: responsible for that as a firearm manufacturer or seller. Apparently

672
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: the folks in New York saw a way around that

673
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: and Mean Arms decided to settle. As disappointing as that is,

674
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: that brings us to the end of our number one,

675
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: we'll be back for our number two in just a bit.

676
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

677
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: ninety three WYBC. Guy Ralford for the Law Offices of

678
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: Guy Relford. As I often mentioned, one of the things

679
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: we do at the law office we really enjoy doing

680
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: is we can restore rights for a lot of folks

681
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: who have lost those rights through a felony conviction or

682
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: other conviction on your record that impacts your ability to

683
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: carry a firearm or otherwise exercise your Second Amendment rights.

684
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: For a lot of convictions, certainly not all, but for

685
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: a lot, we can expunge that off your record. We

686
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: can extore your rights, and that's something that a lot

687
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: of our clients have taken advantage of and we love

688
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: to do that for you. A family member, a loved one,

689
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: or someone you know that would like to have their

690
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: rights restored, contact us through the website. It's Relford Law

691
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: dot com. You can click on contact us, send us

692
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: an email, or give us a call. The phone numb

693
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: right there as well. Get us called during the week

694
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: and we'll see whether we can help you restore your

695
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: second amenmor rights as well. That's Ralford Law dot com.

696
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: And welcome back for our number two of the Gun

697
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: Guy Show here on ninety three WIVC. Let's talk a

698
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: little bit about guns and ice protests and listen. I

699
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: talked quite a bit last week, not only about the

700
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: shooting of Alex Pretty and some of the self defense

701
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: issues involved there. And it's interesting because my comments on

702
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: the air have been picked up by some other commentators

703
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: out there on that issue. The legal analysis I went

704
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: through I saw was named as a source by a

705
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: couple of other attorneys who were talking about the Alex

706
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: Pretty shooting, and I won't repeat that discussion. But we

707
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 1: also saw here in Indiana and Bloomington a knucklehead who

708
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: was protesting ice and decided to carry a shotgun around

709
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: or around the protest on a sling around his neck

710
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: and ultimately got charged with pointing a firearm when he

711
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: allegedly pointed that gun at someone that he was upset with,

712
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: whether that was a driver who wasn't happy with traffic

713
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: being blocked or someone voicing displeasure from the sidewalk being blocked.

714
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: Apparently he got into scuffles and disagreements and conflicts with

715
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: people in both groups. But he's now being prosecuted for battery,

716
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: and that's for pepper spraying someone as well as for

717
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: pointing a firearm, which I mentioned before as a crime.

718
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: We have here in Indiana, well in Portland, and you know,

719
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about somebody doing something incredibly knuckleheaded

720
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: when we start talking about protests and Portland, and that

721
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: could not possibly be more true because we had there

722
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: in Portland an anti ICE protester who was upset that

723
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: there were some pro Trump pro ice livestream outside the

724
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: ICE headquarters there in Portland, and they carrying signs and

725
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: they were live streaming, and they were making it clear

726
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: that they supported the law enforcement efforts of immigration customs

727
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: enforcement and supported President Trump's policies on immigration. And so

728
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: there were a number of anti ICE people that were

729
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: driving by, screaming profanities, calling them names, calling them the

730
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: typical you know, calling them Nazis. Screaming the F bombs

731
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: at him, and otherwise just voicing their displeasure that there

732
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: were people there supporting ICE and supporting Trump. At one point,

733
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: one particular lady got out of her car, went up

734
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: on the sidewalk, was confronting people in a very verbally

735
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: and physically aggressive way, and got pepper spread by one

736
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: of these folks in an apparent act of self defense. So,

737
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: not being happy with having been pepper sprayed, then decided

738
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: to get back in a car, drive by multiple times,

739
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: and this time lean out the window of a vehicle

740
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: pointing a gun at the pro ICE demonstrators in front

741
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: of ICE headquarters. And listen, where there's a situation like this,

742
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: there's generally going to be law enforcement, and what A

743
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: what A what A what a better way there might

744
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: be to get shot than that. I can't really imagine

745
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: and get this. And you can say this is more

746
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: dumb or less dumb. I tend to put it in

747
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: the more dumb category. It turns out it was an

748
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: airsoft gun that she's pointing at people, an airsoft gun

749
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: that did not have an orange tip on it, an

750
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: airsoft gun that for all the world looked incredibly lifelike

751
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: and real. Now, I carry a gun everywhere I can

752
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: lawfully carry a gun. You've heard me say that many times.

753
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: If I'm out on the street, i'm a passer by,

754
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm a participant in one of these demonstrations, I'm much

755
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: more likely than not to have a gun on me.

756
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: I see someone leaning out of a car pointing a

757
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: gun at me or my family members or the people

758
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: around me hanging out of a car, vehicle, a vehicle window,

759
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: rather in an apparent drive by shooting, what's very likely

760
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 1: to happen, what's very likely to happen. It turns out

761
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: she was only pointing an airsoft gun at people. Nonetheless,

762
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: got detained and ultimately arrested. But what an incredibly knuckle

763
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: headed thing to do, right up there with a knuckle

764
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: headed move of our anti hero in Bloomington who decided

765
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: to be a great idea to threatened people with a

766
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: shotgun while he's protesting ICE. So, having seen people be

767
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: incredibly stupid with firearms or simulated firearms, I was still

768
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: impressed at the profession of the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department

769
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: when they made a statement about some protests going on.

770
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: As far as I understand it going on right now.

771
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: In Indianapolis, a group put out an announcement that's here today.

772
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: On the fourteenth, on Valentine's Day, they were going to

773
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: have an anti ice protest in University Park not too

774
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: far from where I am here in downtown Indy right now.

775
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: And as part of that, a number of folks contacted

776
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: IMPD and said are they aware of this? Is IMPD

777
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: going to be monitoring it? And apparently people inquired about

778
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: the legality here in Indiana of having a gun at

779
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: a protest. And listen, you heard what I said about

780
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: the Alex Pretty situation, where I was very disappointed members

781
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration. President Trump himself and other members

782
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: of his administration came out and essentially blamed Alex Pretty

783
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: getting shot on Alex Pretty simply because he was carrying

784
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: a gun. Now, if he's committing crimes, he's committing felonies,

785
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: he's assaulting officers. Okay, let's talk about that conduct, and

786
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: we'll talk about what conduct then justifies the use of

787
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: force against him in the process of arresting him or

788
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: in the process of law enforcement officers defending themselves. But

789
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: to say, simply carrying a gun in a holster on

790
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: his hip. Was any justification for him getting shot is ludicrous.

791
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: Now you reach for the gun as you're being arrested,

792
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: that it's a different analysis. It's a different scenario. You

793
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: pull the gun, you point the gun. Okay, different scenario,

794
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: different set of facts as to consider in determining what

795
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: level of force is justified to use against him by

796
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers. But the comment that bringing a gun

797
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: in a holster or bringing two extra magazines, as he

798
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: apparently did, is somehow justified, is somehow justification for getting shot. No, No,

799
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: in hell no, you don't give up your second amendment

800
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: right in order to exercise your first which is the protest. Now,

801
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: that's not a defense of everything Alex pretty did. You've

802
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: also probably seen the video of him a week earlier

803
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: kicking out the tailight of an ice officer, of him

804
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: of an ice vehicle, rather of him spitting at ice officers.

805
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: You assault officers, you threaten officers. Okay, you suffer the consequences.

806
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: I get that, But the level of force used in

807
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: that process has to be legal, and it has to

808
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: be justified, and and and and and committing an act

809
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: that justifies a law enforcement officer in arresting you, putting

810
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: you in handcuffs, and taking you to jail is significantly

811
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,479
Speaker 1: different that the level of force you might be using

812
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: as an officer or against others that justifies a police

813
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: officer in killing you more simply put in using deadly

814
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: force against you. Those are different analyzes, those are different equations,

815
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: a different factor's way in in terms of what's justified

816
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: under different circumstance. So, with all of this controversy swirling around,

817
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: including I think some very knuckleheaded things said by members

818
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration about how somehow carrying a gun

819
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: justifies you getting shot by law enforcement, I was incredibly

820
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: proud of IMPD here just in the last couple of

821
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: days because they got the question, Hey, we're going to

822
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: have anti ICE protesters here in Indianapolis. What do you

823
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: think about the protesters who might be carrying guns? And

824
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: here's the statement put out by IMPD and and kudos

825
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: to IMPD for again for this professionalism. The presence of

826
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: guns at a protest is both not a crime and

827
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: not a reason for law to intervene. State was stated

828
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: in an Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department statement. Our team recognizes

829
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: that the visible presence of firearm may make some community

830
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: members uncomfortable or concerned. IMPD recognizes and respects the constitutional

831
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: rights of all members of the community to peacefully assemble

832
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: and exercise free speech, and apparently they recognize the ability

833
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: to exercise Second Amendment rights in the process. I'm impressed

834
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: by that's that's that's a quality move, that's a professional

835
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: move by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. I applaud them

836
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: for this. It would be easy to say something that's

837
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: simply anti two A in the guise of expressing concern

838
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: over criminal acts that people may commit. Now, again, does

839
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: the visible presence of firearms at a protest increase the

840
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: likelihood that other bad things can happen? I think the

841
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: answer to that has to be yes. Doesn't mean it's illegal,

842
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's not protected by the Second Amendment. It

843
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: simply means it may not be the smartest move for

844
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: people to make, like the guy carrying a shotgun on

845
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: a sling around his neck in Bloomington during an anti

846
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: ice protest. But that's my point. What's smart can certainly

847
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: be different than what's legal, and it's certainly different than

848
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: what's constitutional. We have to balance those things as responsible

849
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: gun owners, and I wish more people would do that.

850
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I applaud IMPD for coming out

851
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: and making it clear that possessing a gun, simply exercising

852
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: your Second Amendment rights, even while participating in a protest

853
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: are being president of protest is neither a crime nor

854
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: a reason for law enforcement to intervene. That's impressive and

855
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: kudos to IMPD. And with that, let's take a break

856
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: here at the quarter of hour, we'll come back. We

857
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: want to take your calls throughout the program. We've had

858
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: a couple of people call in but didn't want to

859
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: go on the air, had some questions, but you want

860
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: to participate in the discussion. Got a question or a comment,

861
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: give us a call. Three one seven two nine ninety

862
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: three ninety three three one seven two three nine ninety

863
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: three ninety three says Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy

864
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: Show on ninety three WIBC. And welcome back on Guy

865
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

866
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: And we are mid session. In fact, this is pretty

867
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: much what we call halftime at the Indiana General Assembly,

868
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: talking about what legislation is going to make it through

869
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: what will not And if a bill didn't get passed

870
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: in its original chamber. In other words, if a House

871
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: bill was filed in the House, if it didn't get

872
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: voted out of the House by those applicable deadlines, then

873
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: it's dead. It's gone. And even though one particular scumbag

874
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: organization that I mentioned last week, the Indiana Firearms Coalition,

875
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: keeps trying to fundraise over bills that are dead, those

876
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: of us actually involved in the process and those that

877
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: actually want to communicate the correct information and honest information

878
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: to our listeners and members know that there are no

879
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: currently any anti two AA bills that we're particularly concerned about. However,

880
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: we are still fighting for positive legislation to actually protect

881
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: second of my rights in Indiana, as we do every year.

882
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: And here I'm talking about our local representation through NRA,

883
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association,

884
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the two A project, and we're making

885
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: some headway, we're making some moves, we're getting some things done.

886
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: And so I want to bring on the show my

887
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: buddy Kelly Myers. Will you know him as Kelly and

888
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: Avon from the chat feature, But Kelly's been involved as

889
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: co director of legislative affairs for the Indiana State Rifle

890
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: and Pistol Association. I thought Kelly can come on and

891
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: give us a bit of an update on what's going

892
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: on in the State House that may affect and in

893
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: this case, protect and promote your Second Amendment rights. Kelly,

894
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: welcome again back to the Gun Guy Show.

895
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 4: Buddy, Hey guy, it's good to be on.

896
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell us what's going on over the state House.

897
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 4: Well, we had a course, you know, it's a very

898
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 4: short short session with the redistricting debacle that happened in December.

899
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 4: So this week we had a number of bills come

900
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 4: up in the second half where the Senate bills are

901
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 4: on the House side and the House bills are on

902
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 4: the Senate side. Tuesday was just a really great day.

903
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 4: Senate bill won seventy six, which that was Jim Toms,

904
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 4: Senator Thoms who is also an NRA board member. He

905
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 4: introduced the bill and it was to local zoning boards

906
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 4: and those kind of entities from discriminating against shooting ranges.

907
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 4: Some of the stuff I've heard about. If I did it,

908
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 4: it'd be called extortion. They do it, it seems to

909
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 4: be okay. That one got through a local government committee

910
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 4: in the House. There was four of us testifying, all

911
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 4: in support. Had Christopher Lee from National Shooting Sports Foundation.

912
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 4: That's not the man with the golden gun. The other

913
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 4: one I was there for Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association,

914
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 4: Charlie Hilltonan who's the president of ISRPA. He represented the

915
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 4: NRA in his testimony. And we also had Naomi Farmer

916
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 4: from the US Sportsman's Alliance and she'd been she'd worked

917
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 4: with the NRA Institute for Legislative Action for many years.

918
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 4: Knew David Kanti, Lexi Higgins, a lot of the people

919
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 4: I work with there. We got that one through the

920
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 4: usual Suspect X voted no for it, but got a

921
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 4: through committee. It's up for third reading on Monday, so

922
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 4: that's the up or down vote on the on the floor.

923
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Ben Kelly, let me let me back up

924
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: just a bit, buddy, and because that's a very important update,

925
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll continue with what else is going on,

926
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: including with Senate Bill one seventy six. But but I

927
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: want to go into a little more detail about about

928
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: why this is necessary and what this bill does, what

929
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: What has happened around the state for a lot of

930
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: years is that you can have an existing shooting range.

931
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: You can have an existing shooting uh shooting range that's

932
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: that was legal when it was built. It's operating the

933
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: same way it's it's that it's been operating for a

934
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: long time. But then communities may pop up around them.

935
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: We've seen housing conditions pop up around shooting ranges, and

936
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, somebody on the local zoning board

937
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: decides they need to pass a zoning ordinance or or

938
00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: the local county or city or town needs to pass

939
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: an ordinance that will somehow put an existing shooting range

940
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: out of business because it no longer complies with zoning,

941
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: or it no longer complies with a new noise ordinance

942
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: that never existed before that never prevented the shooting range

943
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: from opening and operating for years, but suddenly they're attempting

944
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: to put existing shooting ranges out of business. And so

945
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: what we've had, and we enhanced this back in about

946
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen is my memory, but we've had a Grandfather

947
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: statue here in Indiana that says, if you build a

948
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: range and you operates in substantially the same way than

949
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: any new law or new ordinance or new other local

950
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: regulation that's passed can't stop that range from operating as

951
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: it has operated for years. But what has then happened

952
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: is any form of improvement to that range where people

953
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: want to put in more shooting stations on a sporting

954
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: clay range, or people want to put in improvements to

955
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: start offering trap in addition to ski and sporting plays,

956
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: or or or or people want to make just some

957
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: other minor improvement even to an existing range. Then now

958
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: local governing agencies are jumping in zoning boards and otherwise

959
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: saying aha. The statue says only if you're operating under

960
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: substantially the same conditions, and it is substantially the same way,

961
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: does this grandfather clause protect you? Now you're no longer

962
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: operating that way, and now we can shut you down

963
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: through a new zoning ordinance or a noise ordinance or whatever.

964
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: And what Senator Tom's bill does a nice job of

965
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: is saying, Nope, the following types of general improvements do

966
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: not take people out of the protection of the existing

967
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: grandfather clause to allow local government to shut down these

968
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: existing ranges. And is that a fair characterization, Kelly, Yeah.

969
00:53:59,080 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 4: Very much.

970
00:53:59,640 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 2: Guy.

971
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 4: There was even one I think range it had storm

972
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 4: damage either from a tornado or a bad storm coming through,

973
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 4: and they were stopping them from making repairs on that,

974
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 4: of all.

975
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 3: Things, which is just crazy.

976
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

977
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 4: But Charlie, Charlie Hilltonan has really had a point on this.

978
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 4: He's gone in and spoke on it at a lot

979
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 4: of zoning board meetings around the state. And literally I

980
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 4: started my testimony with I don't know anything about zoning.

981
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 4: I'm not going to talk about zoning. But I know

982
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 4: a little about firearms, and I know a little about

983
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 4: shooting ranges.

984
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 2: Kind of.

985
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So that already made it through the Senate,

986
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: passed on third reading on the floor of the Senate.

987
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 1: Now got out of committee in the House. Now it's

988
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: got to get through the amendment process, right and get

989
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: through second amended second reading rather in the House and

990
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: get engrossed and then get sent to the floor of

991
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: the House. How are the prospects looking for all those things?

992
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 4: Oh, it got past second reading with no amendments and

993
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 4: actually third reading on Monday.

994
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: So this coming Monday is going to be third reading.

995
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 2: Yep.

996
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 4: That is and that is a good thing.

997
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if it wasn't amended in the House, then

998
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: it ought to go straight to the Governor's desk at

999
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 1: that point.

1000
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:18,439
Speaker 2: Yep.

1001
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 4: And then and that was Tuesday was a really good

1002
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 4: day because there was a sportsman's Day after we got

1003
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 4: done testifying, and I was there for NRA Institute for

1004
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 4: Legislative Action and got free barbecue out of it too.

1005
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: That's always a good thing, hey, protecting Second Amendment rights

1006
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: and a little pulled pork. There's nothing wrong with that.

1007
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1008
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: What else is going on? We have talked before, Kelly

1009
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: about the Antique Firearm Bill and tell folks what that

1010
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: is and what the status is.

1011
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 4: Well, that one it ended up getting rolled into House

1012
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 4: Bill ten fifty two, which is an incredibly long bill

1013
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 4: with it the straight of changes. The first fifty three

1014
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 4: pages are incredibly boring things I'm not interested in. You

1015
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 4: get the page fifty four and it basically aligns Indiana

1016
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 4: code with what's required federally for a Knix check. If

1017
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 4: you have an antique firearm or a replica that shoots,

1018
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 4: you know, black powder doesn't shoot fixed cartridges. Nick says,

1019
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 4: now you don't have to do a Knix check for it.

1020
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 4: It's an antique Indiana Code because yes, it is technically

1021
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 4: a firearm, says you have to so basically you are, yeah,

1022
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 4: you're It's mandatory and forbidden. So puts our FFLs in

1023
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 4: a bad place because they have to do it. And

1024
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 4: the folks there in West Virginia receiving the calls, well,

1025
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 4: they still got to do it, even though they're not

1026
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 4: going to do anything with it. But that one passed.

1027
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 2: It passed.

1028
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 4: It's up for second reading on Monday, and so that's

1029
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 4: a good thing. I wasn't there for testifying on it,

1030
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 4: but I think it would pass through pretty good because

1031
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 4: it had everything from had race horses that had gambling,

1032
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 4: It had liquor licenses, It had fifty three pages of

1033
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff.

1034
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah understood.

1035
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: Now.

1036
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: That was another bill that was strongly backed by the

1037
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: National Shooting Sports Foundation, And if people aren't familiar with

1038
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: that organization, you miss mentioned Chris Lee, And in fact,

1039
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: I should have mentioned NSSF when I was talking about

1040
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: the organizations that are at the state House fighting hard

1041
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: for Second Amendment rights. But you know a lot of

1042
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: times the NRA gets called the mouthpiece or the organization

1043
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: for gun manufacturers and the firearms industry. That's really not so.

1044
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: NRA's a grassroots organization that represents individual members who are

1045
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: gun owners, primarily here in the US, the shooting sports

1046
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: industry itself, the firearm manufacturers, and people involved in the

1047
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: firearm industry, including instructors, by the way, and people operating ranges,

1048
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: and otherwise that industry organization in his NSSF located represented,

1049
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: i should say here locally by Chris Lee. NSSF was

1050
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: really pushing strong for this antique firearm bill because, exactly

1051
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: as you said, Kelly, the fact that Indiana law put

1052
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: different requirements on FFLs than federal law does, and in

1053
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: fact required a federal background check when federal law said

1054
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: no such a check was required, made it very difficult

1055
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: for Indiana FFLs or federal firearms licensees. In other words,

1056
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: gun dealers to do their job. Cares are getting pulled

1057
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: in two different directions by the state versus the Feds,

1058
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: and this really, by aligning Indiana law with federal law,

1059
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: makes it easy on those members of the firearm industry.

1060
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: That is another fair characterization.

1061
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely, guy, that's what they're looking at here. Because I

1062
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 4: don't think too many gang bangers are breaking out their

1063
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 4: replica eighteen sixty cold armies that you're going to make

1064
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 4: sure you put thirty grains of powder in it because

1065
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 4: if you put too much of my blow up on you.

1066
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, no doubt. And you know what, that's a

1067
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: call I get all the time, by the way. People

1068
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: will call in and they'll say, I've got this, you know,

1069
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 1: old felony, low level felony, that doesn't make me a

1070
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: serious violent felon. You know, maybe it may have been

1071
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: my second o WI within seven or eight years, or

1072
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: it could have been an old drug charge from college.

1073
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: Can I go buy a gun to go hunting even

1074
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: though I have that felony charge and all of a

1075
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: sudden under the law as it exists, but without this bill,

1076
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: that becomes a very complicated question to answer, saying, well,

1077
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: the federal authorities say yes, but Indiana says no, depending

1078
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: on the gun involved, and that is specifically, if it

1079
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: is a replica antique or an actual antique. Federal law

1080
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: says you're just fine, but Indiana law says you're not.

1081
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: And I like the idea of aligning those two.

1082
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that worked really well. And then Wednesday morning, myself

1083
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 4: and Charlie Hilltoon and sat through. It was the worst

1084
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 4: bill I've ever had to sit through. It was worse

1085
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 4: than mortgage broker principal managers, let's put it this way.

1086
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 4: And it went for over an hour, and it's like,

1087
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 4: I can't believe they're still arguing about this, but they.

1088
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 4: It finally got through and the bill House Bill twelve

1089
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 4: seventy four, which would prohibit insurance companies from mandating gunfree

1090
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 4: zone notices, that one representative, Matt commons Is that was

1091
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 4: the author of it. I had a chance to talk

1092
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 4: to him while the incredibly horrific bill was being argued

1093
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 4: about for an hour. He's young guy. I noticed his

1094
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 4: lapel pen. He was a former eighty second Airborne.

1095
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, I told him.

1096
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 4: He used to jump out of our perfectly good aircraft.

1097
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: He came on the show talk about that bill specifically.

1098
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: We talked in detail right here on the air about

1099
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: how what good policy it would be to not allow

1100
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: insurance companies here in Indiana to require their insurance including

1101
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: businesses specifically requiring them to post no guns allowed signs

1102
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: or making their guns gun or their businesses rather gun

1103
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: free zones. That was a great bill. He talked about

1104
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: it here on the air and yeah, where is that one?

1105
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 4: Oh, it's up for also up for second reading Monday,

1106
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 4: because it passed. It was the Insurance and Financial Institutions Committee,

1107
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 4: chaired by Senator Baldwin, and that's the one that we

1108
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,439
Speaker 4: thought it was going to go good. The first five

1109
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 4: bills were amended and vote only. It took thirty five minutes.

1110
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 4: We're like, okay, we're cruising along, and then it's like, oh,

1111
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 4: this is going to be bad. But we were there

1112
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 4: a very long time.

1113
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: And when it was.

1114
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 4: All done, it was me and Charlie hilltoon and in

1115
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 4: support word of it, and both of us testified for

1116
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 4: probably less than two minutes. It's like, Okay, this is

1117
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 4: a good bill. It needs to pass and it's been

1118
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 4: a long day.

1119
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: Well that I think Texas at the end of the list,

1120
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: does it not, Kelly, is anything out there on the

1121
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: else on the on the on the two a radar

1122
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: in the state House?

1123
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 4: No, those those are the three bills. There was one

1124
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 4: other from Jim Toms that didn't didn't get a hearing.

1125
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 4: That was the one it dealt with ya surrendering firearms

1126
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 4: is a plea agreement type thing, and that's the one

1127
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 4: I know you said you hope to see one that's

1128
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 4: broader to where we can go after property rooms that

1129
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 4: never let guns come out.

1130
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: You bet that's a hot button for me. I get

1131
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: I get that call about the Marion County Property Room

1132
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: all the time, the IMPD Property Room. I always say

1133
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: they should hang a sign over the door the IMPD

1134
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: Property Room that says abandon all hope ye guns who

1135
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: enter here, because they go in, they don't come back out.

1136
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: And I'm going to have to sue them. I'm gonna

1137
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: have to sue them. I'm gonna have to file a

1138
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: lawsuit against them under the Preemption Act and under the

1139
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: Second Amendment because they post all kinds of ridiculous requirements.

1140
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: You have to bring in a receipt, a written receipt

1141
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: to prove ownership when they took the gun from you.

1142
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this could be a situation where where you

1143
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: got pulled over for something like an OWI and they

1144
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: take a gun out of your vehicle because they take

1145
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: you to jail, the impound your vehicle, so the gun's

1146
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: in your vehicle, they take it away from you. You

1147
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: get your case dismissed, or you get your case resolved,

1148
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: You're not prohibited from possessing a gun. You go back

1149
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: to the property room and say, give me my gun.

1150
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,919
Speaker 1: They said, we'll prove it's yours, and you're like, watch,

1151
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: I have to prove it it's mine. You took it

1152
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: from me. You have a record, you took it from me.

1153
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: My mother, my ninety five year old mother, had her

1154
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: car taken by a scumbag that worked for her. An

1155
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: employee took her car, got arrested for possession of cocaine

1156
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: while driving my mother's car, and my mother's gun was

1157
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 1: in the vehicle. The car gets impounded, he gets arrested.

1158
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: He's still in jail, by the way. But I can't

1159
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: get my own mother's gun back from the impd property

1160
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: room because she didn't have an original receipt from which

1161
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: she bought the gun. I don't know, thirty years ago.

1162
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: And so hey, this kind of thing will not stand.

1163
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: It'd be nice to fix it legislatively, so we don't

1164
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: have to file piecemeal litigation over and over and over

1165
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: again to try to teach these people a lesson. But

1166
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: that is something that's on the radar. We got to

1167
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: keep it on the radar for future legislative sessions. But

1168
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: in the meantime, Kelly Myers, co director of Legislative Affairs

1169
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: for Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association, Thanks so much, buddy,

1170
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for the hard work, thanks for the cooperation and

1171
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: teamwork there at the State House. And we'll have you

1172
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: back on to talk about things at the end of

1173
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: the session.

1174
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 3: How's that sound sounds good?

1175
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 4: Guy, I'll be here.

1176
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: All right, man. And Kelly's an active participant in the

1177
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: chat on the YouTube feed, by the way, so you

1178
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: can always see Kelley and avon there and several other

1179
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: of our active participants who joined the show that way.

1180
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Right now, again, we blew past the bottom of the hour,

1181
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: but it's time to take a break. We'll be right back.

1182
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: This says Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on

1183
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: ninety three WIBC, And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on

1184
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIVC. So earlier

1185
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: this month, twenty seven different members of Congress sent a

1186
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: letter to the ATF and it was a strongly worded letter,

1187
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: and it said that those members of Congress were extremely

1188
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: concerned that ATF was creating an illegal registration database of

1189
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: gun owners and guns and wanted answers from ATF as

1190
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: to whether in fact this is true and if so,

1191
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: what their plans were to dismantle the illegal database of

1192
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: guns and gun owners. So what are we talking about

1193
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: and why is it illegal? Well, first of all, the

1194
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: Fire our Owners Protection Act in nineteen eighty six says

1195
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: very specifically that the government shall not keep any database

1196
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: or registry. This is the federal government of guns or

1197
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: gun owners. It's very clear. And this is I think

1198
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: interesting because it essentially is saying that, you know, I mean,

1199
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: if you're want to ask the question, who doesn't trust

1200
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: the government to keep a database of gun owners and guns?

1201
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: The government doesn't trust itself to do so because Congress

1202
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: passed a law that says it's illegal. Because we know

1203
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: from historical precedent, whether at the state level here in

1204
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 1: Indiana with things like required registration or I don't say

1205
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: in Indiana, at the state level here in the US

1206
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: where states have required not Indiana, but other states have

1207
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: required a registration for things like one all firearms. Some

1208
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: states have registration requirements. Other states have institute registrations for

1209
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 1: things like so called assault weapons. Again an offensive political term,

1210
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: but it is what it is. So well, you can

1211
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: keep them for now, but you have to register them.

1212
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: And what happens some number of weeks or months or

1213
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: years later, they said, well, we changed our mind, and

1214
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: now they're illegal and they know just where to go

1215
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: to violate the Second Amendment rights of those people who

1216
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: own those firearms. And the government itself, Congress itself recognized

1217
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: that that the federal government should not be trusted with

1218
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: a registration with a database of gun owners, and so

1219
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: they prohibited it in nineteen eighty six. Well what has

1220
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: happened since then? There's an ATF regulation that requires federal

1221
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 1: firearms licensees, in other words, gun dealers, that when they

1222
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: go out of business, they have to send all the

1223
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: forty four seventy three forms to the ATF. Now what's

1224
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: the forty four seventy three that's the form you fill

1225
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: out when you buy the gun in the gun store.

1226
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: And the.

1227
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: Firearm dealers themselves are required to keep those forms. Get this.

1228
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: It used to be for twenty years the FFL had

1229
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 1: to keep those forms. They changed it. ATF changed it,

1230
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: and so now it's indefinitely, and when you go out

1231
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: of business, you have to send all those records to

1232
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: the ATF. Guess what the ATF's been doing with them,

1233
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 1: They've been digitizing them and putting them into a database.

1234
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: And so all they need is for every FFL in

1235
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: the country to eventually go out of business, receive those

1236
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:50,520
Speaker 1: forty four seventy three forms from that FFL going back indefinitely,

1237
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: and build thereby a complete database, or nearly complete database

1238
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: of gun owners of America. And the fact that federal

1239
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 1: law says specifically they are prohibited from doing so. And

1240
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 1: so what's going to be interesting is what ATF's response

1241
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: is to this demand from Congress to say, are you

1242
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: in fact breaking the law? And if you are, when

1243
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: are you going to stop? And when are you going

1244
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: to undo what you've done, which is by destroying the

1245
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: database you've created. What kind of a response can we

1246
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: expect from ATF on that point? Another interesting question? And

1247
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: with that, I'll tell you, well, let's take a break,

1248
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: come back for a final segment of The Gun Guy

1249
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: Show here on ninety three WIBC, and welcome back for

1250
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: a bit of a short segment here at the top

1251
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: of the hour, which is not unusual for us here

1252
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: on The Gun Guy Show, but you know, Kelly Myers

1253
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: calling in and discussing what's going on in the legislature.

1254
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: It really it reminds me of the need to stress

1255
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: the importance of people like Kelly getting involved in the

1256
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: fight for Second Amendment rights. And listen, there's nothing better

1257
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: that when we have a controversial bill, a bill that

1258
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: we're fighting over that he's getting a lot of resistance,

1259
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: But that's important for Second Amendment rights. I mean, a

1260
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: leading example would be constitutional carry. Obviously we fought for

1261
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: that in the legislature for ten years before we got

1262
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: it passed. And my self defense immunity bill that I

1263
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: wrote and then we got passed in twenty nineteen. A

1264
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: lot of people opposed that, calling it setting it somehow,

1265
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: somehow would promote ventilante justice, they called it, which was

1266
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: of course ludicrous. But the important thing that happened in

1267
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: both those struggles, and I know will again as we

1268
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: get into some more controversial bills that maybe than what

1269
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: we're dealing with this year, is that the private citizen,

1270
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: the person off the street who showed up at the

1271
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: state House got involved and who testified and made their

1272
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: voice heard made all the difference. That's what Kelly did

1273
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: as a private citizen. It just showed up and he

1274
01:10:57,439 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: would ask to testify, and he'd testified. He did a

1275
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,560
Speaker 1: really nice job and it ultimately lead ultimately led to

1276
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: the Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association ask him to

1277
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: be co director of legislative Affairs. That's what we need

1278
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: and we need more of that, and we hope you

1279
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: get involved with that. That's this week's show on the

1280
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 1: Gun Guys Show on ninety three WIBC Guy Ralford for

1281
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: tactical firearms training in our next Essentials of Indiana Gun

1282
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: Laws coming up on March seventh at Indie Arms, conveniently

1283
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: located there on the northeast side, near northeast side of Indianapolis,

1284
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 1: just off fifty fifth in Keystone. This is five hours

1285
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: the most important legal information you need as an Indiana

1286
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: gun owner. It's fifty bucks for an individual, ninety five

1287
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: dollars for couples. We'd love to see you there. There

1288
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: are still seats available, but this one tends to fill up,

1289
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,520
Speaker 1: so don't wait too long. Go to Tactical Dash Firearms

1290
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 1: dot com. Just click on upcoming courses at Tactical dash

1291
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Speaker 1: Firearms dot com.