1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: The only way to bag a classy lady is to 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: give her two tickets to the gun show. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: Monday Gun Day with the gun guy. Just watch up 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: with the guns they'll get guy, stop calling your arms 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: gunn show. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Nigel Chason Hammer right over there 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: with a very special guest on the. 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: Hotline to a attorney, firearms instructor and the host of 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: the Gun Guys Show. He is a guy freakin' Relford. Guy, 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 3: how are you? 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: I am great and thanks as always our sponsor for 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: Monday Gun Day. That's Premiere Arms in Brownsburg, the largest 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: selection of new un historic firearms in the Midwest. If 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: Juli was located in the farmhouse right out front, check 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 2: him out at thirty seven fifty four South Green Street 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: in Brownscore Premiere Arms dot com. Guy. 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 3: When we say firearms instructor, I believe one of the 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: things that you you would teach in one of your 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: classes is how to de escalate situations involving firearms. And 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 3: this kind of brings us to this Minnesota ice story 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: that everybody seems to have an opinion on. Here, let's 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 3: try to bring this to a different direction here, guy, 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: how would you advise somebody to de escalate a situation 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: where maybe an officer's got a weapon and it's drawn 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: and he's telling you to do something. What's the proper 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 3: way to de escalate a situation like that? 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: Well, tell you what. Well, we'll go into this seriously, 28 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: and I won't just do a recitation of Chris Rock's 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: bit on how not to get your app right right right, 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: although although it's pretty it's pretty imprettant advice that Chris 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: Rock had to say as well. But listen, I mean, 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: first and foremost, in that situation, you don't want to 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: appear to be any kind of a threat to the officer, 34 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: And so we always talk about having your hands visible, 35 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: about not making sudden movements, and about not saying or 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: doing anything that would be perceived as a threat by 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: the officer. Now, you know, there are are restrictions obviously 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: on an officer's use of force, and they can only 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 2: use reasonable force under the circumstances, or reasonable force to 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: effect and arrest. And you know, I don't want to 41 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: ever talk like we're given carte blanche law enforcement officers. 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: But at the same time, the number one rule is 43 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: to not present yourself as a threat to that officer, 44 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: And in my courses, when we talk about even the 45 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: justified use of force and self defense, we talk about 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: even where saying you've defended yourself lawfully in your home 47 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: or out on the street, and then you've called nine 48 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: one one. You've got to be very conscious of not 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: presenting any type of a threat to the responding officers 50 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: when they show up, because they don't know who's a 51 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: good guy, they don't know who's a bad guy. You 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: don't want to be seen with a gun in your hand. 53 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: You want to be thing again that presents you a 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: threat to those officers. And obviously the context that we're 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: talking about in Minnesota, the last thing you want to 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: do is go curling toward that officer with a two 57 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: ton vehicle that ended up of itself is its own 58 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: deadly weapon. 59 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the real thing, isn't it. Because the 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: rationale and the reason that most people have when being 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: confronted by a police officer is to comply no matter 62 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: what's happening, and even if the police officer is in 63 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: the wrong, you can work that out later. But that 64 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: doesn't apply to these agitators and these people that are 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: trying to impede the progress and the pursuit of police 66 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: officers and ice officers in Minnesota. 67 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: Does it? 68 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: That kind of logic doesn't enter their mind because they 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: have a job to do, most likely getting paid to do, 70 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: which is to agitate and impede the progress of police officers. 71 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: So that logic doesn't apply to those people. Do that, 72 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: does it? 73 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: No? I mean it's a great point, Nige. And along 74 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: on those lines, I mean, keep in mind you're talking 75 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: about law enforcement where we have and you guys who 76 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: talked to Rick Snyder, FOP president, and he talks about 77 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: the number of attacks on officers, the number of basic 78 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: ambushes of police officers, officers getting shot when they're just 79 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: sitting in their cars or just doing their job. And 80 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: so law enforcement is going to be on edge when 81 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: you're in any kind of an environment, especially where it's 82 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: a hostile environment. Those officers don't know where lethal threats 83 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: can potentially come from, and by definition, they're going to be, 84 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: you know, their heads on a swivel looking for a 85 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: potential threat. And you don't want to present yourself as 86 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 2: one of those potential threats. And I also want to 87 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: agree with you the first point you made there in 88 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 2: that comment Nigel, which is that there are some battles. 89 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: The way I always phrase it in the classes that 90 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 2: I teach, there are some battles you don't win on 91 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: the side of the road. Yes, there are some battles 92 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: you don't win standing in your doorway, and that is 93 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: that if you think an officers acting unlawfully and against 94 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 2: you or even someone else, then the very best motiv 95 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: Brodie at that point is to be a good witness. 96 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: Record it, you'll video it, have someone else video it, 97 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 2: record it, You'll preserve the evidence. But don't present a 98 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: physical threat to that officer, because you're putting yourself in 99 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: a no win situation at that point, and you put 100 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: the officer in a situation where they may, in fact, 101 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: in their mind, be forced to use force against you, 102 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: including deadly force, if that threat is sufficient enough in 103 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: their mind. 104 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 3: Monday Gun Day with Guy Relford here on the Hammer 105 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 3: in Nigel show Guy one more thing on this whole 106 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: Minnesota ice story. I had mentioned earlier. Everybody's got an 107 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 3: opinion one way or the other, and that includes Andre Carson. 108 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: He put out a statement and I noticed that you 109 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 3: were pretty quick to clap back at Indiana's representative from Indianapolis. 110 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 3: Reset what that was all about? 111 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, this was on Twitter, and you know, before any 112 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: of the facts were out, before the all the very 113 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: as videos that have been released, we're out of course, 114 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: as always happens, and from the left, never let it 115 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: get tragedy, go to waste. Right, So you have a 116 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: bunch of liberals and Democrats jumping on social media and 117 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: acting like they knew exactly what happened, and of course 118 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: assessing blamed the ice agent. And one of those was 119 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: Representative Andre Carson here from Indianapolis, and he went on 120 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: and said that you know, this officer acted illegally and 121 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: was a judge, jury and executioner, and then and then 122 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: said something along the lines of I've been in law enforcement, 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: and I've been in dangerous situations as a law enforcement officer, 124 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: and i know that use of force was not justified 125 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: under these circumstances. Now I'm paraphrasing, but that's exactly the 126 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: thought he was communicating. I've been as a law enforcement 127 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: officer in dangerous situations. And I just sent a little 128 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: one liner back to him and said you were an 129 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: excise agent rating bars for underage drinkers, and then just 130 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: went okay, and I just left it there, and of 131 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: course I got no response from the congressman, but I 132 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: got a whole bunch of reactions and likes and forwards 133 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: and reposts and whatnot. So I just had to call 134 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: him out where. You know, I'm sorry, he's going to 135 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: college bars looking for you know, nineteen year old drinkers 136 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: in a bar. He's gonna equate that to be in. 137 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: There's some life or death situation as a law enforcement officer, 138 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: you know. Sit down. 139 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: So guy, let's pivot just a little bit here to 140 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court and Fifth Circuit situation. Now, correct me 141 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: if I'm wrong, but this doesn't affect Indiana. But this 142 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: is something that you've been keeping your eye on. 143 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: Tell us why. Yeah, there's a series of cases around 144 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: the country, and the latest one late December out of 145 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: the Fifth Circuit, which is Texas, Louisiana, and then Mississippi. 146 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: As I recall, there's the Federal Circuit down there. But 147 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: they issued a willingness some other courts have agreed with, 148 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: and that is that if you have a non violent 149 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: felony conviction, and in this case, it was a gentleman 150 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: who had only one conviction on his record. It was 151 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: a felony. Get this for failure to pay child support 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: and listen, not minimizing the impact of dead bee dads 153 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: out there, but at the same time, that's about as 154 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: non violent as you get as far as felonies go. 155 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: They had not paid child support, had a felony conviction 156 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: as a result, and then got convicted of a crime, 157 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: prosecuted for a crime of being a felon in possession 158 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 2: of a gun. And there's a Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, 159 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: the Federal Circuit came out and said, hold on, this 160 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: is not consistent with the text, history, and tradition of 161 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: regulation of firearm rights in America under the Second Amendment 162 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: and under the new test the Supreme Court has established 163 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: for Second Amendment cases, this is unconstitutional as applied to 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: this guy who had only been convicted of this nonviolent crime. 165 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: And listen, there's a pretty persuasive argument in my mind 166 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: that if you're rehabilitated enough, or if you're not a 167 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: sufficient risk to society such that you're released into society 168 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: by the criminal justice system, well then why are you 169 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 2: too dangerous to not be able to exercise your Second 170 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: Amendment rights? And that's true generally. It certainly is true 171 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: of people that may have a felony conviction and their 172 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: conviction was never even violent to begin with. To me, 173 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: there's a very compelling argument to say those folks should 174 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: not lose their gun rights. 175 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: One more thing before we let you go here, Guy 176 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: Ralford from the Gun Guy Show, Licensed Firearms Instructor to 177 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: a Attorney. You have speaking engagement coming up. Tell us 178 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: more about that and how people can go. 179 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a church security conference that's going to 180 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 2: be up in Anderson and it's this weekend, and I've 181 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: posted all the contact information on on my social media, 182 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: which is at Facebook and Twitter or act is just 183 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: at Guy Ralford. But this is the Gatekeeper's Church Safety Conference, 184 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: and that's just what it sounds like. It's about keeping 185 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 2: worshipers at your church, temple, whatever it might be, how 186 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: to keep folks safe, how to have a security team, 187 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: how to go through the appropriate level of training. But 188 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: it's going to be a really good conference. I'm really 189 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: happy to be one of the speakers. And they still 190 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: are seats available, so check that out on my social 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 2: media either at Guy Ralford on Twitter or on Facebook. 192 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: Guy Ralford, you are the absolute best. My friend. We 193 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: will talk to you again next Monday. Thanks guys, it's 194 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 3: the Hammer and Nigel Show.