1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Hammer and Nigel Show. 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Nigel Jason and Himmer right over 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 2: there with a very special guest on the hotline. He 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: is a two A attorney firearms instructor. Damn fine American guy, 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: Relford Guy. We're eating some Harry and Izzys sliders in here. 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: We set this up because we thought you would be 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: in studio, but since you're not here, I guess we're 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: just gonna have to eat all of your food. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: That hurts me a lot. You know. That's on my 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: death row meal. If I ever had a last meal 11 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: to order, Harry and Izzy sliders would be right at 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: the top of the list. They're so good. 13 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: Hey, who's a sponsor in this segment? 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: Here? My friend? Hey, thanks as always to our sponsor. 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: That's Premiere Arms in Brownsburg with the largest selection of 16 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: new use and historic firearms in the Midwest. And Pa 17 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: Jewler is located in the farmhouse right out front. Check 18 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: them out a thirty seven and fifty four South Green 19 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Street in Brownsburg or Premiere Arms dot com. 20 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: Okay, so this first question, it's not necessarily a gun 21 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: or two a question, but you're a defense attorney and 22 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: I kind of need to get inside the mind of 23 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: a defense attorney here. So Carl Boards, that's the guy 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: that killed Officer Noah shanav Oz. He's going for some 25 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: sort of insanity deal to avoid the death penalty. Had 26 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: his competency hearing last week, two of the three experts 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 2: that were up there said he was not mentally competent 28 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: to stand trial. Now it feels like to me, as 29 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 2: an outsider guy, I saw this same movie with Brian 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 2: Leets Killer to where I feel like he knows exactly 31 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: what he's doing, but they're going to try to trick 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: enough people to say that he's got something wrong with 33 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: him so he can escape the death penalty. Like, if 34 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: I were a defense attorney, why would you not just 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: tell your client, hey, where pajamas? Act like a lunatic 36 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: yell in the courtroom because you can probably avoid the 37 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: death penalty. Does that make sense? Shove peanut butter up 38 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: your butt and then eat it in front of the judge. Right, 39 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: I'm afraid that's where we're at right now. 40 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what really is going on here, though, guys, 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: is something a little different than what you're describing, Because 42 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: there are several different issues, including whether or not a 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: defendant is competent to stand trial. That's much different than 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: an argument at sentencing to say that they shouldn't have 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: the death penalty for some reason related to mental health, 46 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: or even different than that. That's different than arguing not 47 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, or separately, there's a different 48 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: potential sentence, which is guilty but mentally yield. These things 49 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: are all different consideration. That's sentencing and whether or not 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: somebody gets a death penalty. That's not really what we're 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: talking about yet. In this case, what he's arguing is 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: that he's not competent to stand trial. Not competent to 53 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: stand trial doesn't mean the case gets dismiss It doesn't 54 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: even influence a sentence at the end of the case 55 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: if he's found guilty. It's just a it's a procedural 56 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: step that's really required by the Fourteenth Amendment and requirements 57 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: of due process to say that a defendant must be 58 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: confident enough to understand the proceedings and assist their attorney 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: in their defense, because if they if they're so out 60 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: of it because of mental illness or otherwise that they 61 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: can't assist in their own defense and understand the proceedings. 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: Then they're being deprived of their right to affair trial 63 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: under the fourteenth Amendments. So that's what we're that's where 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: we are now. Now, if he's found incompetent, and you know, 65 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: I read a couple of articles that said that two 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: out of three quarter pointed psychiatrists came in and said, yeah, 67 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: he's not competent to stand trial. All that means at 68 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: this stage of the proceedings is that any trial would 69 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: be put on hold. They pause the proceedings and they 70 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: send him in a secure facility, so he's locked up. 71 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: They send him for mental health treatment. When they say 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: he's currently incompetent, make him competent so they can prescribe 73 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: him medication. They do whatever other treatment they the doctors 74 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: prescribe for him, and they then take the amount of 75 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: time necessary to make him competent through treatment and or 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: prescriptions medication. And then they come back once he's competent 77 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: and put him on trial and he goes he would 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: as if the proceedings had not been paused. That's different 79 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: than not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty but 80 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: mentally ill, And it's different than what the jury or 81 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: the judge should consider on issues of sentencing. 82 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: And I'm glad you broke it down that way because 83 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: it just looked like, from an outsider's perspective, we were 84 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: going down the slippery slope of every single cop killer 85 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: is going to say that they're not competent. So are 86 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 2: they going to escape the death penalty? You know? 87 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? No, What really is going to happen is he's 88 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: going to get sent off if he's found in competent. Now, 89 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: may find him competent, because it's up to the judge 90 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Now he relies heavily 91 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: on expert testimony. But if they find him incompetent to 92 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: stand trial at this point again he just gets treated. 93 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: Then whether it's medication or otherwise, they send him back. 94 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: They have a trial. Now he can also say, and 95 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: this is different. It's obviously related because it's related to 96 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: his mental health. But he could say I'm not guilty 97 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. That's a different standard completely. What 98 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: that means is not that he's not competent to stand trial. 99 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: It means that at the time of the offense, when 100 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: he shot Noah shot events that he either didn't understand 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: the nature of what he was doing and the consequences 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: of his actions, or he was incapable of controlling his 103 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: actions because of mental illness. And if that is the 104 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: determination at a trial, that's actually not guilty by reason 105 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: of insanity, which means by definition, he would not get 106 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: the death penalty. But it also doesn't mean he goes free. 107 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: That means they go through civil commitment proceedings where they 108 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: lock him up in a mental institution. Then separately, a 109 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: jury could find him guilty but mentally ill. That means 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: he goes to prison, but he gets mental health treatment 111 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: while he's in prison. So there are various outcomes once 112 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: a defendant raises their mental health, whether it's to stand 113 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: competency to stand trial that's where we are now, or 114 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: at trial that they can go for not guilty by 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: reason of insanity. Now that to your first question, could 116 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: avoid the death penalty, and it also means you do 117 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: your time in a mental institution. If you're found not 118 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, you don't do your time 119 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: in prison. You do it in a mental institution. If 120 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: that's your preference, which most people would probably say yes. 121 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: So this will play out in a whole series of 122 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: different ways. But where we are now is in that 123 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: first stage of competency, which could just result in a delay, 124 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: not anything else. 125 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: Monday Gun Day with Guy Roelford, the gun Guy, here 126 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: at ninety three WIBC. So here's a headline that people 127 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: can take a couple different ways. Guys, mass murders down 128 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: twenty five percent in the year twenty twenty five. So 129 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: this is a headline where you're going to see like 130 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: Joe Hogg set and Ryan Meers doing victory lapse. Right, 131 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: mass murders down twenty five percent. Look how well liberal 132 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: cities are doing. But guy, there's another side to the 133 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: statistic as well. 134 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: Right, well there is and but what's interesting to me 135 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: is this is a nationwide number, and we're talking about 136 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: mass killings. So you're talking about four or more people 137 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: killed in one incident. Now, these could be four gang 138 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: bangers that all are shooting, you know, shooting each other up. 139 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: It could be a drive by people shooting into a party. 140 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: It could be a typical what we think of as 141 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: as a active shooter situation where somebody walks into a 142 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: grocery store or whatever and starts shooting people. But anytime, 143 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: four people will die in one incident and aha, that's 144 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: a mass shooting. And what's interesting to me is those 145 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: numbers are down year to year, and that's a heck 146 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: of a number, and to me, it coincides. I don't 147 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't put the credit for that in the hands 148 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: of anyone other than the fact that there are more 149 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: law abiding citizens walking around armed today than ever before, 150 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: both because more people have bought guns, also because more 151 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: and more states are going to constitutional carry, and also 152 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: because since the bruined decision by the Supreme Court that 153 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: mandated places like New York and Hawaii and California and 154 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: others drop there may issue system for issuing licenses, that 155 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: more and more people have licenses to carry. So I 156 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: think you're seeing more and more law abiding citizens carrying guns, 157 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: which is why those mass shootings are down. Because we 158 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: know and it sounds like a cliche and people don't 159 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: like it because they attribute it to NRA, but it's 160 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: fundamentally true that the best way to stop a bad 161 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: guy with a gun is a good guy with gun 162 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: with a gun, and there are more good guys with 163 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: guns out there, and good ladies out there armed able 164 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: to stop these things before they happen. Just like happening 165 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: in the Greenwood Park mall right here in the Indianapolis area. 166 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: So I think that's what you're talking about is bad 167 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: guys don't know who's armed, don't know who can pull 168 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: a gun from concealment and stop what they're intending to 169 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: do before they accomplish their objectives. That's going to dissuade 170 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: people from going down that road to begin with. Or 171 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: like we saw in Greenwood, you could end up in 172 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: a disruption before we even reach those numbers. 173 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: All right, guy, we're up against it here. But I 174 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: do want to play one more SoundBite here. I want 175 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: to play audio from Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow, who 176 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: was part of a panel discussion recently, or I should 177 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: say was on stage doing a discussion about still being 178 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: a Second Amendment supporter even after the murder of her husband. 179 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: I wouldn't wish upon anyone I have been through and 180 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: I support the Second Amendment as well I do. 181 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 4: And what I've realized through all of this is that 182 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 4: you can have individuals that will always resort to violence. 183 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: And what I'm afraid of is that we are living 184 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: in a day and age where they think violence is 185 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 3: the solution to them not wanting to hear a different 186 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: point of view. That's not a gun problem, that's a human, 187 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 3: deeply human problem. 188 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: Guy, I've got about thirty seconds. I just wanted to 189 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: get your reaction to that. 190 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was so glad to see her say that. 191 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: I mean, someone who's been the victim here, the political 192 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: assassination of her husband would be very easy for her 193 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: to shift review on the Second Amendment. So I was 194 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: just I'm a fan of her. She catches a lot 195 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: of grief from a lot of directions. I'm a fan 196 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: of hers, and I was really glad to hear her 197 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: say that. I think that's exactly the right message. 198 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: If somebody wants to become a client of yours, or 199 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: maybe they've got questions, maybe they want to be trained. 200 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: You're a trainer of firearms. How can they find you? 201 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: You like? Contact me through Twitter, man, give me a 202 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: follow while you're on there. It's just at Guy Ralford 203 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: on X or Twitter at Guy Ralford. 204 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: Guy, you're the best. We appreciate you, brother. 205 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: Sure, guys, thanks so much.