1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Live from Vaal Hartbeiner and the Crossroads of America. 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today. The fraud in Minnesota is very, 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: very real. 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: This issue is massive and turns into billions of dollars. 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: And of course the focus is going to be on 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: Somali Smallly nationals, those involved, and whether or not there 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: is a compatibility with Western civilization, something that I've discussed repeatedly, 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Tony Katz, Tony Kats today, good to be here, Good 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: to be with you. But shouldn't we be looking at 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: whether or not other states are engaged in this fraud, 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: even if they don't know it. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: I mean, shouldn't this be job number one? 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: Hey? 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: If this is happening in Minnesota, could this be happening 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: in other places? To me, that's kind of everything. Governor 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Mike Brawn joins. 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: Me right now. He is the governor of Indiana, that is. 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: My state, and I saw you you're there on Fox News. 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: Red state governor touts and medicaid savings as Minnesota grapples 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: with widespread fraud allegations. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: Now, there have. 22 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: Been issues here in the state of Indiana with not 23 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: having the money. There was a we're gonna have a 24 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: shortfall over here on other budget issues, and that led 25 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: to attacks on cigars, which you know that I vehemently 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: opposed and thought it was all sorts of wrong, sir, 27 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: And I'll yell about you at you about that later, 28 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: But let's start with what you're seeing in Minnesota, what 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: it is that has been exposed, What did you do 30 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: when you first heard this story, and what is the 31 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: plan to make sure that kind of fraud isn't happening 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: in Indiana, and what should other governors be doing? 33 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: Well, Tony, it didn't surprise me other than the magnitude 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: of it, and mostly because of the six years I 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 3: spent in the Senate on the Budget Committee. I was 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions, and also the Aging Committee, 37 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: which did a lot of investigative work about just the 38 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: kind of stuff you're talking about. 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 4: I remember, and. 40 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: I did mention it on Fox when like just one 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 3: hundred three percent of all the checks that are written 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: by the federal government or either to the wrong payee 43 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 3: or for the wrong amount or both. It is so 44 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: rampant there, and any state that vies in and wants 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 3: to scale things like Medicaid, which were intended for the 46 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 3: people that really were hurting to find healthcare, couldn't afford insurance, 47 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: you know, fell into the cracks. It's been so abused, 48 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: it's been run so poorly. You can actually see something 49 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: like that amazed me. 50 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 4: A guy like. 51 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 3: Tim Walls obviously has zero interest in running his agencies efficiently. 52 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: When I came back to run for governor, it was 53 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: with that intent, and I think we did that by 54 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: reorganizing state government. And then we started digging into all 55 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: of the agencies that even in a state like Indiana, 56 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 3: when you bloated it with all the federal borrowed and 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 3: spent COVID money, there's sloppiness in there. And we found 58 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: already a lot of savings. This is just something of 59 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: the magnitude. It's hard to imagine it happened. 60 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: If you were going to describe it, sir, what is it? 61 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: Is it the standard operating procedure of government to not 62 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: run properly? Or you spent years in the private sector 63 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: building your business in a place called Jasper, Indiana in 64 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: the world of automotive parts things like that. Is this 65 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: in your view? Was this proactive? Is this in your 66 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: view proactive fraud? Or is this just what happens in government. 67 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: So was proactive fraud by the fraudsters. But due to 68 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: the fact that the government, and here's the main difference 69 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: between the real world, there's no competition. Your revenues are 70 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: given to you. So the people that run it, Tony 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: I've generally pivoted into politics right out of law school, 72 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: and they are the ones that have never had an 73 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: interest in how you manage things, how you get the 74 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 3: best results from it. Obviously, it's a broken healthcare system. 75 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: I described private healthcare as an unregulated utility. I fixed 76 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: that in my own business seventeen years ago. That's a 77 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: whole nother discussion. But when you have money that is 78 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: so easily accessed, especially the spending spree that occurred through 79 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: COVID in the Biden administration. Doing the Cares Act was 80 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: bad enough because that was an overreaction, But then all 81 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 3: of this is a result of they want the benefits, 82 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 3: they have zero interest in managing it, and then it's 83 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: a fertile field for this. This amazed me because Minnesota 84 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 3: is I think a smaller state than we are, run 85 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 3: blue like Illinois, California and New York, know mimicking the 86 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: federal government. The amount of fraud and waste that eyewitnessed 87 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: in six years and to get no interest on the 88 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 3: other side. I mean, it's their growth business, and they 89 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: worship it like a cathedral, and they run it in 90 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 3: a way that is going to probably run it into 91 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: the ditch. And we're seeing those results. You know, on 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 3: a bigger scale, two trillion dollar deficits annually, but we're 93 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: virtually now. 94 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: It's by the way, population of Minnesota is five point 95 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: eight million via online check. Talking to the governor of Indiana, 96 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: Mike Brown, former senator from Indiana, I want to go 97 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: back to really this fundamental here because no one should 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: think that this is happening just in Minnesota. If there 99 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: are those within state governments who come out of law 100 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: schools utilizing your words, the ideology is built in, so 101 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: therefore they're looking the other way takes place. I often 102 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: argue that what we see from socialism is out a bug. 103 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: It's a feature. When you put bad people in the 104 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: wrong position, they'll look the other way. 105 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: They'll allow the bad things to take place. 106 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: And that seems to be a lot of what happened 107 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: here in Minnesota. How do you ensure you talk about 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: digging into state government here in Indiana, and this is 109 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: you know, a conversation about other states as well. How 110 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: do you make sure what actions have you taken in 111 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: the state of Indiana, and what actions do you think 112 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: governors should take to be looking into this exact issue 113 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: about waste, fraud and serious abuse with medicare Medicaid. 114 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of low hanging fruit when we 115 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 3: got here and over and especially through the COVID period. 116 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 3: In the last decade, Indiana's Medicaid spending increased by one 117 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five percent. That's probably average. They lured 118 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 3: you in with paying for most of it. But when 119 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: stuff is. 120 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 4: Nearly free and you're lured. 121 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 3: In by it, that doesn't mean it's going to be 122 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 3: run well and you're not going to find stuff. Here's 123 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 3: what we found out of the gate. We found over 124 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 3: ten thousand people I think the figure was in Indiana 125 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: that should have been on medicare not on Medicaid. 126 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 4: They didn't even. 127 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: Get switched over at the appropriate time that would have 128 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: eliminated that burden. Very simple. We found that they were 129 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: double dipping in some cases where you had people actually 130 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: getting Medicaid benefits out of multiple states. We had a 131 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: very renowned program that people moved into the state for 132 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 3: ABA therapy, which treats autistic children. But we were like 133 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: advertising it and then we let benefits go way beyond sustainability. 134 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: We pulled all that stuff back and as a result, 135 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: we're going to be spending roughly twelve percent less. We're 136 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: going to focus on the people that need it, and 137 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: we're just getting started. Because that's such a big program 138 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: that we're going to find more as we go along. 139 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 3: And I was surprised, even in a eight like ours, 140 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: it is relatively well run compared to blue states. Can't 141 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 3: imagine how things got off the wagon during COVID. We're 142 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: bringing it all back on and we're going to be 143 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: saving a ton of money. 144 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 4: Well over the next several years. 145 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: Talking to the Governor of Indiana, Mike Braun, this is 146 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: the same conversation in terms of how you deal with 147 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: the response and the reaction that Democrats are trying to 148 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: push upon Republicans. As we come to the end of 149 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: the year, there is no extension of those Obamacare subsidies 150 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: that Democrats have voted in. They voted to have expired 151 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: the end of this year, end of twenty twenty five, 152 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: and you're gonna hear, well, you're raising healthcare costs on 153 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: the American people. And when you talk about reining in 154 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: certain levels of this spending, when you talk about how 155 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: we're going to eliminate some levels of waste and take 156 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: a look and make some. 157 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: Cuts, what you're gonna hear is Okay. 158 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: Here you are, Governor Mike Braun allowing children to starve 159 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: or allowing elderly not to get care. 160 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: How do you respond to that? How do you think 161 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:01,599 Speaker 2: others should. 162 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: So when it comes to that and their unbelievable attempt 163 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 3: to take over the affordability issue, and you know Biden 164 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: gave us twenty two to twenty three percent over those 165 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: last three years, I think that is something that we 166 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: got to get better at. 167 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 4: We're flat footed on it. 168 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 3: But when it comes to this full idea of Democrats 169 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 3: having any interest in running government more efficiently. 170 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 4: It's just not there. 171 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: They, for instance, on healthcare, have never been interested in 172 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 3: tackling pharma, big hospitals, insurance. That's what I did in 173 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: my own business seventeen years ago, became the insurance company 174 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: because the margin was so thick, and then based it 175 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: on wellness and prevention. Tony not expensive remediation. 176 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 4: Dems don't care. 177 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: They just want more of it without ever getting to 178 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: the bottom of it. I'm going to try some of 179 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: those things here in our own state employee plan to 180 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: make here there's some skin in the game so you're 181 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: not constantly defaulting to having no interest in what the 182 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: cost is. Having some skin in the game, it can 183 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: be fixed. But when you're just willing to borrow and 184 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: spend more money because you're only worried about the benefits, 185 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 3: that is where you hit the ditch hard. That's why 186 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: you have two trillion dollars in now structural deficits, a 187 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: lot of it related to healthcare. 188 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: But I'm going to go back just a little bite. 189 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: Here's Governor Tim Walls, the former vice presidential candidate, and 190 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: you can imagine how little of a fan I was 191 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: of him as a vice presidential candidate, never mind as 192 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: a governor. 193 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: This fraud has been taking place. 194 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: He is touting giving more and more money to people 195 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: here illegally, people who can't afford this, people who can't 196 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: afford that. You're seeing more and more and more people 197 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: that Minnesota wants. 198 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 2: To take care of. 199 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: You see the abuse that has taking place, possibly into 200 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: the billions of dollars. And there's a real question, although 201 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: there's some reports that some payments have been stopped and 202 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: some internal investigations have taken place, what kind of real investigation, 203 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: what kind of real stoppage of these plans is going 204 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: to happen because politically, people are going to say, well, 205 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: it's just a political right attacking Somali's. So two questions. First, 206 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: what is there a specific plan in the state of 207 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: Indiana that you think other red state governors should implement 208 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: into looking into ensuring that this fraud of fake childcare 209 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: centers or fake home health care centers, etc. 210 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: Isn't happening. And what do you believe. 211 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: Should be the pressure put on Governor Walls regarding dealing 212 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: with the criminal activity that has taken place, possibly with 213 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: the wink in the NOD. And when I say possibly, 214 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: I mean for me personally, very probably with the wink 215 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: and the nod of the political left in the state 216 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: of Minnesota. 217 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: So his main issue is, even though the Democrats really 218 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: don't worry about any of this we've been talking about 219 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: until they're in a corner, Senator Ron Johnson is going 220 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 3: to do subpoenas to get to the bottom of it, 221 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 3: you're going to have guys like Rick Scott from Florida 222 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 3: who turned a purple blue state that was in the 223 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: red financially ten twelve years ago into something that works, 224 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: costs half of what it costs in New York. They're 225 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 3: not going to get by with this. This reached such 226 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: a profile and pim Walls. I don't know if he 227 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 3: survives or not. That's up to Minnesotan's but if they 228 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: want to be kind of the poster child for what 229 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: government looks like when it's abused and doesn't work, emblematic 230 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 3: of many of the blue states. The federal government, for sure. 231 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: Some of that issue is with Republicans that have not 232 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: held firm on fiscal responsibility, the appropriators and the neo 233 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: cons there. I've talked about that before. You're not going 234 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 3: to get by with it because as they're going to 235 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 3: come at you, it gets worse for him. This doesn't 236 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 3: go away. In states like ours, we're doing eligibility checks. 237 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: We're making sure if you're on Medicaid, you just don't 238 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: stay on it without someone checking in every three months 239 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 3: to see if something has changed. Three forty B pharmacy 240 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 3: scam where pharmacies can get actually very very low costs 241 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: if you're on it, and then you jack it up 242 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 3: and take full markup. You know, the pharmacide's got a 243 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 3: lot of abuse in it. Do a pretty good job 244 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 3: making the pill. But PBMs and stuff like three forty 245 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 3: b have got to go, and there's no transparency on 246 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: any of this stuff. That's all going to be on 247 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 3: steroids here in Indiana, I think in other red states 248 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: and in blue states if they don't want to be 249 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 3: in the laughingstock category of what Minnesota is currently in. 250 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, Governor Mike Brown of Indiana 251 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: and mentioning a PBM's pharmacy benefit managers, there's a really deep, 252 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: detailed conversation and that. 253 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 2: We'll do that another time. 254 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, redistricting fails in the state 255 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: of Indiana. I was in favor of redistracting, and I've 256 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: argued so you know, I never lie to you, I 257 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: don't lie to anybody. I think this was poorly rolled 258 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: out from the beginning. I think this was something that 259 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: should have had much more clarity and much more focus, 260 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: and I don't believe that it was there. 261 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: Then there was the conversation of people being primary to no, 262 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: maybe not being primaried. 263 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: What do you believe is the resultant of not passing 264 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: redistricting in the state of Indiana. Are we about to 265 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: see a state that fails to do what the president 266 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: wants lose federal funding. 267 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 4: I don't think so. 268 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: My relationship, the state's relationship with the administration prior to 269 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 3: that was, if not the best, one of the best 270 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: in the country. I think when leadership decided to die 271 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 3: on that hill, when eighty percent of Republicans and conservatives 272 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: not to mention our congressional delegation, not to mention every 273 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 3: other state, even if they didn't want to do it, 274 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: and who knows how it all works through the courts, 275 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: I think that was, you know, putting your thumb in 276 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: the face of the administration most Republicans and Conservatives in 277 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 3: the state. I think that'll be something for the Senate leadership, 278 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: especially to figure out how that plays out. And all 279 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: I can tell you is when I came in, they 280 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 3: give you Senate Bill one, which was supposed to be 281 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: some significant property tax reform, gutted it completely. We did 282 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 3: call back, mostly through the House's efforts to give reasonable reform, 283 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: not what many of us wanted, but it's indicative they 284 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: threw cold water on healthcare reform. 285 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 4: All that got watered down. 286 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 3: It was like pulling teeth to get with them on 287 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 3: doing anything that was going to. 288 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 4: Distinguish this is the state. 289 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: This to me was a little bit similar to that. 290 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 4: We'll still get stuff done. 291 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: The low hanging fruit will pick reorganized state government. We're 292 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: running it so much more efficiently. 293 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 4: Want to end with this. 294 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: On my end, we just got toouted as the strongest 295 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: economy in the Midwest GDP growing at twice the rate 296 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: of Illinois and Ohio, three times Kentucky, six times that 297 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 3: of Michigan, and already on the IEDC. We're incentivizing jobs, 298 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 3: spending one third what the prior administration did, and we're 299 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: getting wages raised from thirty six to forty one bucks. 300 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: Kind of all under the radar, shaping up our state agencies, 301 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: doing what I can through the executive branch. I'd ask 302 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: the Senate to be a little bit more energized forthcoming 303 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 3: on policy stuff, healthcare, all the things we've been talking about. 304 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: That is a pivot from what happened to through districting 305 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: to look how much we'll pay and people, Sir that 306 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: was professionally done. But we're gonna I don't think we're 307 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: done with the redistricting conversation by longshot Governor Mike Brown, 308 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: the governor of Indiana. I appreciate you taking the time 309 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:14,239 Speaker 1: to be with us. 310 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: More coming up. I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Katz today.