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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Hammer and Nigel Show. Hello, my

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Speaker 1: name is Nigel Jason Hammer right over there with a

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Speaker 1: very special Inn studio guests.

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Speaker 2: The clock is ticking on, changing of the congressional maps.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like we got to vote tomorrow. And joining us

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Speaker 2: now to talk a little bit about this, the former

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Speaker 2: co chair of Donald Trump's Indiana campaign, Tony Samuel, joins us. Hey, Tony,

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Speaker 2: welcome back, my friend.

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Speaker 3: How are you guys? Thanks for having me, especially thanks

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Speaker 3: for having me on your last day here in the studio.

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Speaker 3: I'm honored.

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Speaker 2: Turn the lights out when you leave. We're asking a lot

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Speaker 2: of our guests to do that. Make sure you turn

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Speaker 2: all the faucets off and turn the lights off. That's

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Speaker 2: all we're asking.

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Speaker 3: And I heard your reasoning of what you don't want

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Speaker 3: to see when you look out the window, and that

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Speaker 3: made perfect made perfect sense. It might still be going

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Speaker 3: on the block, but maybe again, just.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, the show's still going on. We're just

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Speaker 1: moving Forcibley.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, correct, all right? So this time tomorrow we'll

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Speaker 2: probably be talking about the vote vote that's taking place

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Speaker 2: at the Indiana Senate scheduled to be tomorrow. Things could change,

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Speaker 2: but we believe this vote is happening tomorrow. Before we

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Speaker 2: get into any of the nuts and bolts here, just

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Speaker 2: big picture, Tony. Do you think the redistrict plan is

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Speaker 2: a good idea?

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Speaker 3: It is a good idea, And the reason being is

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Speaker 3: when you vote for a president in a presidential election,

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Speaker 3: this time it was twenty twenty four, you vote for

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Speaker 3: that president because you share his vision, his policies. You

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Speaker 3: expect him to run the country the way you've voted

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Speaker 3: and the way he's campaigned. You do that for a

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Speaker 3: four year term. You don't do it so then a

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Speaker 3: different makeup of Congress can come in and obstruct him,

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Speaker 3: as we saw in his first term when he got

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Speaker 3: elected in twenty sixteen. So you do it for a

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Speaker 3: four year term. And that's kind of my rationale or

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Speaker 3: the basis. So the midterms, since the terms are the problem,

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Speaker 3: and so if I can jump into it, if you want,

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Speaker 3: the way I see it as president is elected by

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Speaker 3: winning the electoral college. We all know two hundred and

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Speaker 3: seventy votes out of five hundred and thirty eight Those

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Speaker 3: electoral college votes are awarded to the president when he

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Speaker 3: wins most states by even one vote by the popular vote,

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Speaker 3: it's a winner take all system. He wins a state,

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Speaker 3: he gets all of those electoral college votes in forty

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Speaker 3: eight states and Washington, DC, just not in Maine and Nebraska.

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Speaker 3: They do it a little differently, where Maine has four

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Speaker 3: electoral college votes, Nebraska five. But in Indiana, as you know,

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Speaker 3: we have eleven nine US House seats and two US

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Speaker 3: Senate seats. So when a president wins and in Indiana

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Speaker 3: he's won in twenty sixteen by fifty seven percent, twenty

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Speaker 3: by fifty seven percent of then in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: by fifty nine percent, I'm saying those districts, those nine

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Speaker 3: comngressional districts should reflect the same popular vote margin. And

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Speaker 3: you do that for a US senator. US Senate races

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Speaker 3: are statewide, so and those those are also the same

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Speaker 3: popular vote margin that the president wins.

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Speaker 2: So you feel like it should be based off of

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Speaker 2: the electoral college results.

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Speaker 3: Then absolutely, because that's how the presidency is based.

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Speaker 2: So what would be your response to somebody who's listening

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Speaker 2: right now that's like, but wait a minute, I feel

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Speaker 2: like our governor should be the one that makes these decisions.

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Speaker 2: I'm picking people that are making decisions for us in Indiana. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they're going to Washington, d C. They're going to work

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Speaker 2: for the president. But I want somebody from Indiana to

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Speaker 2: make these decisions, and maybe you know there are some

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Speaker 2: pockets in Indiana that are a little bit different. What

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Speaker 2: would be your response to that person.

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Speaker 3: The response is, when you win those electoral College votes,

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Speaker 3: that's how the presidency is based. So you win eleven

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Speaker 3: but nine US House districts, you can you can draw

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Speaker 3: the maps as long as they're fair, and you know

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Speaker 3: that's the whole purpose here is to have fair representation

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Speaker 3: in Washington, d C. You can draw the maps any

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Speaker 3: way that you want, as we're seeing as we're seeing

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Speaker 3: over there in the state House right now. But it

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Speaker 3: should be I'm saying it should be based on that

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Speaker 3: popular vote because it's the it's the it's the popular

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Speaker 3: vote in Indiana that gave Donald Trump, and doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: who who the presidential candidate is or what year it is.

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Speaker 3: It should be based on the same vote total in

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Speaker 3: each district, the same margin, and I should say the

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Speaker 3: same baseline vote.

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Speaker 1: I'm for in Tony, I'm for redistricting. I think that

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Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea. Is there any guarantee though,

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Speaker 1: that if this happens and it runs through the Senate

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Speaker 1: and it's voted on and redraw the maps, that those

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Speaker 1: two seats get flipped. I mean, like, what are the chances? Well,

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Speaker 1: if it's what I'm saying is like I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, playing Devil's advocating.

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Speaker 3: Sure, sure, what you would have is you wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: a seventy percent district here in central Indiana and the

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Speaker 3: Indianapolis area that goes one way. You would spread those

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Speaker 3: votes out and they shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. There

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be a seventy percent Democrat district or of fifty

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Speaker 3: six fifty eight percent district in northwest Indiana because going

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Speaker 3: back to that electoral college, when when you use those

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Speaker 3: to pick the president, if it wasn't that way, then

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be arguing this. But when it is that way,

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Speaker 3: why do you then give to electoral college essentially two

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Speaker 3: votes away in Congress and a new Congress because you

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Speaker 3: you didn't match the popular vote. So to your question,

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Speaker 3: if you spread out those seventy percent in the others

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Speaker 3: and you try to get now, it's not going to

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Speaker 3: be exact in every district, but you try to get

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Speaker 3: to that same baseline vote. Yeah, it actually makes it

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Speaker 3: more fair for a Democrat running in the current sixth

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Speaker 3: or the fourth or just about any other you know,

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Speaker 3: Republican district because there's there's more than that fifty seven

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Speaker 3: baseline vote in those Republican districts. What you have now

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Speaker 3: is a seventy percent district here in the Indianapolis area,

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Speaker 3: and then you have over sixty percent Republicans in the

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Speaker 3: seven Republican districts. You would actually have more fairness. And

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Speaker 3: if you did this across the country. You know, one

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Speaker 3: statistic we hear every election is that there's only a

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Speaker 3: handful of congressional seats that are competitive. Really, from what

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Speaker 3: I've read, it's like sixty nine seventy congressional seats out

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Speaker 3: of four hundred and thirty five. If you did this,

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Speaker 3: you would have fairness across the more fairness across the board.

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Speaker 3: But what another way of looking at it is the

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Speaker 3: Democrat states do this already. So there are ten Democrat

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Speaker 3: states that are blue states because they vote president for

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Speaker 3: a Democrat president each time, and then they have zero Republicans,

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Speaker 3: all Democrat congress people. Massachusetts is the perfect example, because

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Speaker 3: they have the same number. They voted for Biden and

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Speaker 3: then they voted for Commonland that sixty percent range. They

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Speaker 3: didn't just give Republicans two seats two years later.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask, do you do any states

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Speaker 2: go along with this concept that you're talking about here?

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Speaker 3: I don't think they explain it that way. I think

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Speaker 3: Democrats were just more aggressive on this, smarter if you

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Speaker 3: want to say, and they didn't allow any Republican seats

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Speaker 3: in those states. Whether they use this argument, I haven't

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Speaker 3: heard it before, you know, based on the electoral college

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Speaker 3: and the popular vote. But that's the reasoning. The problem

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Speaker 3: really with this debate here in Indiana it's been going

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Speaker 3: on for several months now, is the messaging has been

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Speaker 3: poor all across the board.

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Speaker 2: That's been a Republican problem for a while. Like outside

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Speaker 2: of Donald Trump, who is you know, he gets his

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Speaker 2: messages across Republicans from a local level, so even a

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Speaker 2: national level, they're not the best at getting their message

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Speaker 2: out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree one hundred percent with that, And

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Speaker 3: that's why I've given it so reason. I've given it

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Speaker 3: so much thought. So I'm on this television political television

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Speaker 3: show called in Focus on Fox fifty nine CBS four hure, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: thank you. And it's also sometimes I don't know if ay,

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Speaker 3: but it's on, so people are watching. It's also on

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Speaker 3: in Fort Wayne and tear Out and Evansville at different

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Speaker 3: times to the weekend. So we get this. I get

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Speaker 3: this question every time I'm on for the last three

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Speaker 3: or four months. I've given a lot of thought. Of course,

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Speaker 3: I'm a Trump guy. You guys know that. So you know,

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Speaker 3: there's those reasons when you vote for Trump to be

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Speaker 3: your president, and you see the progress that he's making

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Speaker 3: in all kinds of areas, the economy, stopping drugs at

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Speaker 3: the border, stopping wars around the world, all of these things.

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Speaker 3: Crime in our big cities. You don't want to see

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Speaker 3: what happened in that first term. Again, so it makes

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Speaker 3: sense politically, it makes sense for the voter. It's fair

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Speaker 3: to the voters that are voted for him. And then

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Speaker 3: again it's because that baseline Republican vote in the state.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about a different state, Illinois that always votes

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Speaker 3: for a Democrat for president. You know this would apply

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Speaker 3: to them as well. Their districts should match that same

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Speaker 3: baseline vote, but they would there would be more fair.

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Speaker 3: I think if they went by this kind of methodology.

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Speaker 2: One more thing here, Tony, before we let you go,

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Speaker 2: Tony Samuel with us, a former co chair of Trump's

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Speaker 2: Indiana campaign. Let's say the votes are not there. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of what we're hearing right now as of today.

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Speaker 2: Could change, but we're hearing the votes are not there

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Speaker 2: to pass this through and the Senate tomorrow. What's going

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Speaker 2: to happen to some of those lawmakers senators in Indiana

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Speaker 2: that vote no on this because you've got people like

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Speaker 2: Turning Point USA other packs involved here, Like, what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen because some of these guys aren't up for

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Speaker 2: reelection this year? Is the public going to remember this?

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Speaker 2: Is this something that two or three years from now

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Speaker 2: Rod Bray is going to have a hard time with.

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Speaker 3: It could be that this is just me speaking here.

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Speaker 3: I hate seeing that kind of thing. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think when you get into politics, people are going to

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Speaker 3: have disagreements. At The job here is to educate. I

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Speaker 3: didn't have to, like, you know, put together my talking points.

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Speaker 3: I because I'm on that show and because I care

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Speaker 3: about you know, what happens in the country, and I

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Speaker 3: know those guys in the state House. So I've talked

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Speaker 3: to a few of them, but I don't like saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, seeing somebody's get going to get taken out

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Speaker 3: for this reason or this vote or not, it's an

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Speaker 3: important vote. They the state legislators need to realize they

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Speaker 3: have a national responsibility here. Yeah, they're elected for state policy,

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Speaker 3: but this is the one time they can affect national politics.

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Speaker 3: They can affect you know, the fetanyl coming into the

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Speaker 3: country right and killing you know, hoosiers, and that's what

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Speaker 3: that's where they need to take it seriously. I don't like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the threats that are going on, but I

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Speaker 3: do think they've got to think about it as a

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Speaker 3: national responsibility.

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Speaker 2: Does Indiana have a soft Republican problem? And I talked

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Speaker 2: about this a lot when Governor Holcombe was the governor.

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Speaker 2: I've made it perfectly clear. Wasn't the biggest fan. You

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Speaker 2: couldn't tell if this dude was a Democrat or a Republican.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to lock you up for not wearing a mask.

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Speaker 2: It feels like there's a lot of people that say

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Speaker 2: I want to make Republicans great again, channeling that Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump make America great again. We need to make Indiana

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Speaker 2: Republicans republican again. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 3: It makes absolute sense. You know, when I first started

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Speaker 3: supporting Donald Trump, it was twenty fifteen, and people chuckled

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Speaker 3: at me and that kind of thing. And I've seen it,

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Speaker 3: you know, And these are a lot of them Republicans

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Speaker 3: that they just they never liked the guy's style, so

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Speaker 3: they were opposed to him in the first place. So

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Speaker 3: they still are, even though they might not say it

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Speaker 3: publicly anymore, they still are. That is a problem at

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Speaker 3: the State House because but the answer to that is,

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Speaker 3: look at the policies. You know, whether you like his

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Speaker 3: style or not. I happen to get a kick out

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Speaker 3: of it. I think you guys do it. He's the

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Speaker 3: funniest president we've ever had. But he cares about the

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Speaker 3: American people. I think everything that he does is motivated

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Speaker 3: by that. And folks over there in the State House,

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Speaker 3: and I know we're talking about Republicans, they need to

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Speaker 3: get over the fact that they didn't like him in

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Speaker 3: the first place.

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Speaker 2: Right you know, Tony Samuel, we appreciate you, thank you

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Speaker 2: for taking the time for joining us. Stammer and Nigel

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Speaker 2: Show