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Speaker 1: Three WIBC, Ethan Hatcher and Brad Klopfenstein on the morning

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Speaker 1: show this morning, and we are joined by special guest

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Speaker 1: Jesse Brown in the studio with us. And before we

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Speaker 1: get to you, Jesse, I can already see some people

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Speaker 1: in the YouTube chat room. They're upset we got the

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Speaker 1: socialist city council member right here in the sacred studios

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Speaker 1: of WIBC. Aw Man, Jesse, They're they're very upset to

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Speaker 1: see you. But I think that we can have a

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Speaker 1: conversation here because it shouldn't matter what side of the

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Speaker 1: political aisle you happen to be sitting on if all

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Speaker 1: of the parties that are speaking are invested in good governance.

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Speaker 1: And that's the real conversation here, representing the constituency, representing

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Speaker 1: the will of the people. And from the turnout that

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Speaker 1: I saw the protesters that showed up to the city

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Speaker 1: council member meeting, it seems that the opposition for this

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Speaker 1: data center is overwhelming in the Martindale Brightwood neighborhood. But man,

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Speaker 1: that Metropolitan Development Commission, they just they just rammed it through.

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Speaker 1: They did not care, do not give an f about

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Speaker 1: those people.

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Speaker 2: That sure is how it looks to me as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm saying about a ninety five percent opposition to

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Speaker 3: the data center from people from across the political spectrum,

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Speaker 3: just as we are in the studio today.

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Speaker 1: So yes, right wing, left wing, independent, It.

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Speaker 2: Has aout burshoot theory.

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Speaker 1: Live well, when you've seen, when you've seen how data

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Speaker 1: centers act as bad neighbors. We have the Meta Metadata

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Speaker 1: Center that is going up right now in the Indianapolis area,

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Speaker 1: and it is it is a bad neighbor to the

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Speaker 1: people living nearby. You got the bright floodlights on at

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Speaker 1: all hours of the night. You got loud construction sound,

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Speaker 1: helicopter noises that are keeping people up at all hours.

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Speaker 1: It's driving down property value and it's also driving up

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Speaker 1: utility cost. You could hear how unpopular this was in

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Speaker 1: the room when the Metropolitan del Development Commission rammed it through.

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Speaker 1: Listen to the os the piticians past you ji break quiet.

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Speaker 3: That was an officer in a neighborhood association shouting out ry,

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Speaker 3: how do you sleep at That?

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Speaker 2: Not a great sign for any politicians.

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Speaker 1: No, no, they were, they were, they were not happy

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Speaker 1: at all. Tell us how this might impact the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: jesse and why people might oppose having a data center

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Speaker 1: built right next to him absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think it's important to start with

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Speaker 3: a little bit of historical context. So libertarians might be

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Speaker 3: familiar with this, but you know, big government pushing a

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Speaker 3: big infrastructure project through your neighborhood doesn't always raise your

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Speaker 3: property values, right, And so the I seventy at I

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Speaker 3: sixty five expansion in Indianapolis went right through some historically

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Speaker 3: black neighborhoods, including Martindale, Brightwood. And so I've talked to

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Speaker 3: constigs and people just outside my district who, you know,

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Speaker 3: their grandmother, their great grandmother built a house there, and

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Speaker 3: they could just point to where their property values plummeted

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Speaker 3: and they lost the ability to have that personal wealth

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Speaker 3: to lift people out of poverty. So they're already naturally

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Speaker 3: pretty suspicious of people claiming that a big development is

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Speaker 3: necessarily going to impact their neighborhood positively. But over the

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Speaker 3: course of years, they built this quality of life plan,

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Speaker 3: which is this whole ordeal. You have to get tons

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Speaker 3: of buy in from stakeholders, you know, neighbors who associate

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Speaker 3: in a formal association. It's tricky to get people out

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Speaker 3: to meetings in the evening when they don't think there's

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Speaker 3: anything in it for them. Church has got involved, businesses

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Speaker 3: got involved. They worked through the city to get this

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Speaker 3: formal quality of life plan approved that would say, yes,

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Speaker 3: we want development in our neighborhood, but we wanted to

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Speaker 3: be on our terms. We wanted to make sure it

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Speaker 3: doesn't just gentrify us out of the neighborhood. We wanted

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Speaker 3: to build wealth locally, build good jobs. And so they

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Speaker 3: took great pains to create this. Metro Blocks comes in

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Speaker 3: and just ignores all of that. I was at the

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Speaker 3: very first meeting that the community had with Metroblocks with

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Speaker 3: there were had to be fifty people there showing up,

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Speaker 3: and yes, they were hostile to the data center from

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Speaker 3: the beginning, but they asked, you know, are you going

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Speaker 3: to promise us local jobs, Are you going to promise

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Speaker 3: us local money? Are you going to work with us

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Speaker 3: and work with their quality of life plan? Metro Bloc said, yes,

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Speaker 3: we promise. If this isn't supported by the community, we

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Speaker 3: will withdraw. And now they've obviously reinegged on that problem. Well,

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Speaker 3: that's great if they have a plan, that's great. If

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Speaker 3: somebody has a plan for my property, but that might

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Speaker 3: not fit with my plans for my property.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and even if you have.

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Speaker 4: A plan, at what point does when this plan does

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Speaker 4: not get executed do you have to pivot? I mean

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Speaker 4: that property has been sitting vacant for forty years.

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Speaker 3: It has, it has, and neighbors don't like that, to

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Speaker 3: be clear, and you know, neighbors will be the first

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Speaker 3: to tell you it was vacant for a long time,

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Speaker 3: but it was up.

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Speaker 2: It was kept up.

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Speaker 3: You know, people were parking semis and stuff that was

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Speaker 3: probably not actually legal, but it was providing some sort

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Speaker 3: of value to some local business owners recently in the

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Speaker 3: last couple of years. That's really kind of fall a seed.

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Speaker 3: Let's put it in a radio appropriate way. I caught

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Speaker 3: myself last second. Sorry about that, you know, but I

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Speaker 3: have talked with several other developers who also have plans

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Speaker 3: for that site, who've worked with the community, that the

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Speaker 3: community supports more so one.

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Speaker 2: Of and do they have money behind it.

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Speaker 3: They did really alternative plans, and one was a lumber

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Speaker 3: company that already has an existing facility that they're just

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Speaker 3: outgrowings they wanted to move anyway.

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Speaker 2: This would be a second.

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Speaker 4: If that's my lumber out in the Lawrence I'm all

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Speaker 4: all forgetting them out of Lawrence.

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Speaker 2: It's not them. I won't say anymore, it's not my district.

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Speaker 3: But okay, all that is to say, the options here

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Speaker 3: are not another forty years of vacancy or this unpopular project.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I just I mean, I have.

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Speaker 4: Said for a while the data centers have done a

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Speaker 4: terrible job of selling themselves, because it's true, for sure,

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Speaker 4: on the surface, we all need the data that they provide.

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Speaker 4: And when you're talking about milliseconds making a difference to communities,

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Speaker 4: if you have a data center right next door, that

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Speaker 4: encourages other businesses who need that data instantaneously to also

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Speaker 4: invest in that community and be right next door, provided

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Speaker 4: that the data center is paying for their own infrastructure,

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Speaker 4: that does not increase the utility rates for the people

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Speaker 4: in the community.

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Speaker 2: It seems like a pretty inert thing to put there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily false, but I mean

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Speaker 3: there's a couple of things about this data center in

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Speaker 3: particular that I think are especially problematic. You know, Indianapolis

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Speaker 3: does not have a zoning regulatory system that works for

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Speaker 3: data centers as a whole. They're trying to make it

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Speaker 3: up as they go along, and what they first did

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Speaker 3: when the first giant one to come to town, the

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Speaker 3: Google in Franklin Township, Michael Paul Hart led the resistance

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Speaker 3: against Republican City Republican. I'll give him credit, yes, one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent. He since kind of walked that back and

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Speaker 3: been a little bit more pro data center, but you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't blame him for that. But when he first

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Speaker 3: was fighting that, the city didn't know what they wanted

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Speaker 3: to do about data centers, and so the planners at

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Speaker 3: the Department of Metropolitan Development were just told, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: let's figure this out as we go. Let's try to

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Speaker 3: find a set of standards that will apply to this

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Speaker 3: project and all the data center projects moving forward. So

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Speaker 3: they did that, but of course that included things like

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Speaker 3: they foot setbacks the Martin Dell Brightwood site for the

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Speaker 3: Metro Blocks. If you had thirty foot setbacks around that,

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Speaker 3: you'd have no site left. And so they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: never mind, now let's change the standards we've just adopted.

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Speaker 3: So partly I will say Metro Blocks is getting the

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Speaker 3: short end of the stick because the city has not

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Speaker 3: been proactive enough at really setting standards. And so two

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Speaker 3: community members. It sure looks like developers are just making

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Speaker 3: the rules up as they go along, and we're rewriting

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Speaker 3: the rules to fit what the developers want, which kind

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Speaker 3: of makes zoning only against the community and not against

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Speaker 3: any kind of standards, worst of both worlds.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The other thing about this data center, that's you know,

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Speaker 3: just the rezone got approved, the appeal lost yesterday or

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Speaker 3: two days ago. This is right next to a library,

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Speaker 3: a community center, residential homes, and a grocery store, the

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Speaker 3: Safeway right there. So the worry is not only is

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Speaker 3: this unpopular in this neighborhood, but now we've set a

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Speaker 3: precedent that there's no real zoning standards that makes sense

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Speaker 3: for data centers until we come up with the holistic

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Speaker 3: one that works for all of them.

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Speaker 4: So, you know, I used to be on the Indian

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Speaker 4: applis Board of Zoning Appeals, and I would always ask

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Speaker 4: the question when somebody comes in and says we are

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Speaker 4: you know, if there's a remonstrator it says we don't

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Speaker 4: want this in our community. I'm like, all right, in

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Speaker 4: this case, zoning centers are not illegal if not there.

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Speaker 2: Where, right, And I think that's a fair question.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I could like come in and say

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Speaker 3: I want no data centers anywhere a Man County.

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Speaker 2: That's my stance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there aren't there lots of available industrial sites

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Speaker 1: on the west side of Indianapolis.

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Speaker 2: That would be my create lots.

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Speaker 3: This had to be rezoned, it wasn't previously zoned industrial

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Speaker 3: for this purpose, and it wasn't previously zoned to allow

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Speaker 3: such building heights. You know, there's a lot of variants

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Speaker 3: that they had to require, so to me, that just

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Speaker 3: shows that this site wasn't appropriate.

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Speaker 1: We're we're not anti data center, We're not anti development.

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Speaker 1: We are pro We are pro responsible development development. And

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Speaker 1: I think one thing that community members want to see

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Speaker 1: when developments are added in their neighborhoods is they want

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Speaker 1: to see jobs.

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Speaker 2: They want to see some payoff.

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Speaker 1: And there are not a lot of job opportunities when

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Speaker 1: these data centers come to town. In fact, Metroblocks is

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Speaker 1: promising forty five permanent high skilled workers to be employed

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Speaker 1: on the site. How many of those people are going

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Speaker 1: to be employed from the neighborhood versus how many of

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Speaker 1: those people are going to be potentially imported using the

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Speaker 1: H one B VISUS says system. That's not going to

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Speaker 1: be giving Hoosier's jobs, and it's going to be increasing

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Speaker 1: the pressure and the prices in your neighborhoods in order

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Speaker 1: to facilitate this. That's not good news for the residents.

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Speaker 3: Right, And that was some of the first questions they

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Speaker 3: asked at that first meeting is how can we get

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Speaker 3: on a track right now? They're like, we think we

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Speaker 3: have more skilled laborers here in this community than you realize,

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Speaker 3: and so let us help you find them. Or if

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Speaker 3: you find like some gap in qualifications, how do we

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Speaker 3: meet those because it's going to take a little while

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Speaker 3: for construction, how do we get people skilled up? And

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Speaker 3: Metroblox didn't seem willing to have that conversation.

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Speaker 1: No, In fact, they just railroaded right over a residence objections,

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Speaker 1: which I think is terrible because you should be listening

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Speaker 1: to the will of the constituency. That's the primary job

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Speaker 1: of representative government. Emphasis on the representative part of representative government.

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Speaker 2: That's been my stance.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yes, I personally oppose data centers, but it

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be about me, right. I don't think my job

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Speaker 3: as an elected official is to just lord over people

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Speaker 3: and let the benighted masses. You know, learn from my expertise, right,

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Speaker 3: My job is to represent people. And if you know,

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Speaker 3: Ron Gibson or Metroblocks or you know whatever local officials

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Speaker 3: and developers can't make the case, then yeah, that's a

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Speaker 3: salesmanship problem. Maybe maybe the residents are wrong, but why

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Speaker 3: do we have a government at all unless the will

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Speaker 3: of the residents is the final thing that they consider.

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Speaker 1: Right In just a minute, we have to go to

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Speaker 1: the WIBC News with Jared Lewis, So in just a

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Speaker 1: short roundup, is this the last hurrah? Are is the

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Speaker 1: pretty much game over since the Development Commission approved this zoning?

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Speaker 1: Or or will the residents still be able to push

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Speaker 1: back in any meaningful way to prevent this or modify

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Speaker 1: the construction in a way that better benefits and suits

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood's needs.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. The residents are upset, but they

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Speaker 2: have not given up. So I know.

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Speaker 3: Lawyers have been retained, other politicians have been retained. We're

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Speaker 3: looking at every possible option and it will take some

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Speaker 3: creativity because I think Metroblocks feels that was the end

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Speaker 3: of the road and their dust and their hands off.

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Speaker 2: But we're still fighting.

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Speaker 1: Where's the mayor?

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Speaker 2: Where's the mayor?

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Speaker 3: In all this, he is pretending to be neutral while

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Speaker 3: his economic development organization and his staff are all pushing

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Speaker 3: this through. I've talked to city planners who were fired

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Speaker 3: who originally proposed that the staff would be against this

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Speaker 3: data center. So his thumb is all over this, even

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Speaker 3: though he's trying to keep his name out of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Hawk said, he's always there for a photo opportunity,

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Speaker 1: but he's not there when the residents are crying out

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Speaker 1: and needing somebody to be a voice for them. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming in the studio, Jesse. We really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: pleasure to be here, but it's not the last time.

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Speaker 1: Definitely not. Thanks for listening to ninety three WIBC. Coming

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Speaker 1: up next is Jared Lewis with the News