1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So I spoke with Major Mike Lyons, he retired United 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: States Army regarding what it is that has transpired with 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: President Trump and the move to want to test our 4 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: nuclear facilities sadly not playing the way I wanted it to. 5 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good to be with you. 6 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Find everything I do over at Tony Katz dot com. 7 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 2: It is. 8 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Kind of nutty the way this has been portrayed, the 9 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: way this has been. 10 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Shown to has been pushed. 11 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: This madness about like some danger that comes from the testing. 12 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: I don't think that's the case. I don't think that 13 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: is the case at all. It is not a danger. 14 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: What it is it could very well be a rational 15 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: position of here's something that we haven't done, here is something. 16 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 2: That we need to do, and if we. 17 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: Don't, if we don't do it, if we aren't people 18 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: willing to test, what does that mean? We have a 19 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: nuclear arsenal? Are we going to pretend that we shouldn't 20 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: be using it? No way, take that back. We absolutely 21 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: don't want to use it. But are we going to 22 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: pretend that it's not there? It just sits there? And maybe, 23 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: just maybe this is a larger scale conversation about readiness. 24 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: My conversation with Major Mike Lions. Yeah, oh wow, whatever 25 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: whatever happened with my system went to hell in a handbasket, 26 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: which is really too bad. I will post it because 27 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: I had video of it and everything else, and I 28 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: will I. 29 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: Will share it. I will have it on the YouTube feed. 30 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a genuine issue when we 31 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: take a look at how people react and respond to 32 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: something that could very well be just smart policy, a 33 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: smart idea, valuable. Why would we say that somehow it 34 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: is so wrong for us to be to realize we've 35 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: got we've got an. 36 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: Arsenal, we should test it well. For Major Mike. 37 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: Lions, it goes along with an idea, and he wrote 38 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: about this at Real Clear Defense and the article is 39 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: entitled the Trump Doctrine a Visible Leverage. It's a very 40 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: interesting idea. The Trump doctrine a visible leverage. As Major 41 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Mike Lions writes it, leverage therefore must be visible, transactional, 42 00:03:54,880 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: sustained the performance, quite literally, is the policy. And it's 43 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: a discussion of how President Trump sees how you interact 44 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: with the world. Different presidents have a different point of view. 45 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: It is not. 46 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: Unheard of Monroe doctrine, Well, did Barack Obama not have 47 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: a doctrine of basically apologizing for American strength. 48 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: In a position that is seen as. 49 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: Absolute weakness, absolute weakness, that you would go around the 50 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: world apologizing for American strength that is not considered humble 51 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: in other societies, it is considered weak. And when you 52 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: when you took a look at that, when when Barack 53 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: Obama was engaged. 54 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: In that, it was ugly. 55 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: It was embarrassing, is probably the better way to go 56 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 1: about describing it. When President Trump discusses that we need 57 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: to be attesting our nuclear arsenal, first of all, this 58 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: isn't a Bikinia told. This isn't let's drop the bombs. 59 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: And then there's the soldiers and the winds are rushing 60 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: and everyone's wearing the weird goggles. That's not it. You 61 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: engage this in a way that's underground. There's safety measures. 62 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: The President stated, the United States has more nuclear weapons 63 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: than any other country. This was accomplished, including a complete 64 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: update and renovation of existing weapons during my first term 65 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: in office. Because of the tremendous destructive power. I hated 66 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: to do it, but I had no choice. Russia is 67 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: second China's a distant third, but will be even within 68 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: five years because of other countries testing programs. I've instructed 69 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: the Department of War to start testing our nuclear weapons 70 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: on an equal basis. That process will begin immediately. There 71 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: is no question that other nations and rogue nations are 72 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: looking to have this nuclear option, this nuclear advantage, level 73 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: playing fields allow them to engage in more saber rattling. 74 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: This is why Iran could not be allowed a nuclear weapon. 75 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: And anybody who thinks that it's wrong to take out 76 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: their nuclear facilities, well, my gosh, you must have worked 77 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: in the Obama administration. It was the right thing to do. 78 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: I'm glad we did it. We should continue doing so. 79 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: And if you say to me, who are we to 80 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: decide for other nations? Iran sponsors terrorism. Those terrorists can 81 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: kill Americans if they have not already. Like the things 82 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: we saw for example October seventh in Israel and a 83 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: host of other stories, we saw how their support of 84 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: the Houti rebels in Yemen has gone down. We should not, 85 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: as a matter of course, for our own safety and security, allow. 86 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: Them to get a nuclear weapon. 87 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: It is foolhardy to say that somehow we should let 88 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: this happen when we can do something about it. It 89 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: is of real world understanding to say we have a 90 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: nuclear arsenal and we need to remind the world that 91 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: we have a nuclear arsenal. I don't think they forgot 92 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: I should be clear about that. But rather, if you 93 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: listen to Major Mike Lyons, it is that this idea 94 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: of leverage, this idea of visible leverage, is about showing 95 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: our capacity to overwhelm you, to get you to rethink 96 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: your position. The USS Gerald Ford moving into the Caribbean. 97 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: We already know that the United States has been taking 98 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: out drug boats from Venezuela. 99 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: I do not oppose these things. 100 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: Some in the Senate in the House have been saying, 101 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: are we engaged in an act. 102 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: Of war here? 103 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: Because you've labeled Nicholas Maduro a narco terrorist. You have 104 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: said that we are in this level of war action. 105 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: War is something that's declared by Congress. You have to 106 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: come to us. I think they have a fine argument. 107 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: But if you want to show Venezuela that you're not 108 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: messing around the largest aircraft carrier in the fleet, being 109 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: on your doorstep, or just hanging out in the water, 110 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: floating around with our planes and our missiles. How is 111 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: that not to terrence and how is that not something 112 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: that we absolutely believe in. If we take a look 113 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: at Ukraine, one of the things that Major Mike Lyons 114 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: discusses is that there isn't actually a leverage there. 115 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: That you had him. 116 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: You had President Trump trying to get Zelensky to engage 117 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: giving up land. Then you had Vladimir Putin pushing away 118 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: President Trump, and Trump then saying well, Ukraine can get 119 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: it to land back in Danetski and Lahansk and Zapporsia 120 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: there in the dune. 121 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: Boss. So oh, of course they can. 122 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: We support it, and NATO's gonna get in there and 123 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: be supportive. And next thing you know, we're going to 124 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: be selling more weapons to NATO. But it has not 125 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: fully material And so one of the things that you're 126 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: seeing is not too much movement from the United States 127 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: on the subject of Ukraine Russia because he does not 128 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: see that the leverage is. 129 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: There for him to apply. 130 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: Now, you can actually argue this as a conversation about 131 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: soft power. But what President Trump likes is a tangible show, 132 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: a tangible presentation. I for one, have never liked the 133 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: military parade stuff. 134 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: And everything else. And I get that Americans. 135 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: Don't like it because that's what they do in China 136 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: and that's what they do in Russia. 137 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: Ooh, look how tough they are. 138 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: We don't need to do that stuff. We'll just do 139 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: what needs to be done. When the moment comes, we're 140 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: just ready. Trump's point of view is different. He wants 141 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: to show it, he wants to embrace it. When Putin 142 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: came to Anchorage and there were the F eighteens and 143 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: the F thirty fives, and there was the flyover of 144 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: the bombers, the same bombers that took out Iranian nuclear 145 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: facilities at Fourdeaux and Isfahan and the tons, that's the show. 146 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: Now. 147 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: I can appreciate someone not liking it, but it's an 148 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: interesting idea to think of it as doctrine. And as 149 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: for the testing of the nuclear arsenal, as opposed to 150 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: these progressives who scream, oh my gosh, let's ask a 151 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: different question. We have one when it. 152 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: Is the last time we tested it, shouldn't we be 153 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 2: testing from time to time? 154 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean every six months, I had to test the 155 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: batteries and my smoke detector. 156 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,119 Speaker 2: Is it really so weird? So strange? So odd, so peculiar, 157 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: so out of bounds. So how dare he. 158 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: That we'd want to make sure that our nuclear capabilities, 159 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: our systems are up to snuff. No, I don't think 160 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: it is. Actually makes me wonder why in the world 161 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: did we take so long? When was the last time 162 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: we were really doing this? Exactly what could we find 163 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: in this? And it also lets him show the world, hey, 164 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: don't forget when this is not the country of Joe Biden. 165 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: We are very ready you want to be our friend. 166 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: There's a real fear that some have in the country 167 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: about strength. Trump is not one of the people of 168 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: that fear, and that is one of the reasons he 169 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: got elected. 170 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Katz today.