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Speaker 1: The only way to bag a classy lady is to

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Speaker 1: give her two tickets to the gun show.

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Speaker 2: This Monday Gun Day with the gun Guy.

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Speaker 3: Swatch up with the guns they'll get.

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Speaker 1: Guy, stop calling your arms gunn.

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Speaker 2: Hey.

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Speaker 3: My name is an Ijeel and that's Jason Hammer right

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Speaker 3: over there, live in studio with this Second Amendment attorney

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Speaker 3: licensed firearms instructor, host of the gun Guy Show Saturdays

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Speaker 3: here on ninety three WIBC. Guy Relford, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am fantastic and thanks as always to our sponsor

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Speaker 2: for Monday Gun Day. That's Premiere Arms in Brownsburg with

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Speaker 2: the largest selection of new, used, and historic firearms in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest and pa Jews located in the farmhouse right

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Speaker 2: out front. Check them out at thirty seven and fifty

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Speaker 2: four South Green Street in Brownsburg or Premiere Arms dot com.

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Speaker 1: Now, we never know what we're gonna get with Guy Relford.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes he'll come in here on Monday with a Colt's

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Speaker 1: T shirt on and a baseball hat. Other times he

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Speaker 1: comes here and it was like, mister Steele, your girl

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Speaker 1: like he does today, it's like a suit. It's got

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Speaker 1: a little chest showing here today.

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Speaker 2: I'd be in court today. I had a plea hearing

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Speaker 2: in Marion County, so I was in court, but I

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Speaker 2: wanted to get rid of that tie as soon as possible.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, you're here with the rest of it from

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Speaker 2: being in court today.

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Speaker 1: Because your birthday was yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it was Yeah, happy birthday, buddy, Yeah, sixty eight yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say twenty nine. Yeah, so I'm

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Speaker 2: closing in on that big seven oe. We'll see how

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Speaker 2: that goes.

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Speaker 1: Well, you look like a million damn dollars. And you

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Speaker 1: can see guy on our YouTube chat here, look for

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Speaker 1: wibc's YouTube channel. We're streaming it live. Had a little

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Speaker 1: hiccup earlier, but we're good now, all right, so let's

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Speaker 1: get into it here. The Wall Street Journal had this

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Speaker 1: article that says all a killer has to say to

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Speaker 1: get away with killing somebody is I feared for my life.

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Speaker 1: If there's some sort of situation happening and somebody says

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Speaker 1: I feared for my life, you can get away with

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Speaker 1: killing somebody. This was a story in the Wall Street Journal, right,

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Speaker 1: This wasn't somebody's basement podcast exactly. It's the Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 1: and we thought you would be the perfect guy to

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Speaker 1: ask man.

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Speaker 2: I saw this, and Wall Street Journal tweeted this and

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Speaker 2: exactly to your point, and you nailed it. It said

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Speaker 2: the six words any killer needs to know, and it

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Speaker 2: was I feared from my life officer and and and

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Speaker 2: that was their lead into this article. And the article

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Speaker 2: was about standard ground laws and and and there's so

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Speaker 2: much misunderstanding about what a standard ground law even is,

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Speaker 2: how they function, uh, what they what they justify, and

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Speaker 2: what they don't feed in Florida. Yeah, and the thing

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Speaker 2: is that Trayvon Martin, right, and George Zimmerman is the

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Speaker 2: guy who's tried for murder. Thing is that wasn't even

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Speaker 2: a standard ground issue down there. And we can get

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Speaker 2: into the specifics, but there's this misperception out there and

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Speaker 2: it's engendered by propagated by the articles exactly like this

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Speaker 2: one in Wall Street Journal. It basically says, if you

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Speaker 2: claim you feared for your life, you can kill anybody

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Speaker 2: you want to. And it's so completely ridiculous. That's not

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Speaker 2: how the law works. I defend self defense cases. I

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Speaker 2: was in court today on a self defense case. That's

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Speaker 2: not how they work. And it's ridiculous. But that's the

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Speaker 2: kind of propaganda that we see now, and it's so

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Speaker 2: disappointing because I used to think the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 2: had some objectivity, if not a little bit of fairness

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Speaker 2: to the right side of politics, and man, they seem

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Speaker 2: to have fallen off the other side of the spectrum.

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Speaker 1: So let's do some hypothetical stuff. That's one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite things to do is to just run a bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff by you you bet so, tying it into

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Speaker 1: recent events. Let's say you are with somebody downtown Indy

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday night. You're walking down Meridian Street. You're

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Speaker 1: looking for the next club to go into, next are

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Speaker 1: to close out your night. You hear gunfire ringing out

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Speaker 1: from one of the bars. Yep, you walk in there

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Speaker 1: and start opening fire, and maybe you hit the shooter,

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Speaker 1: maybe you hit somebody else here. You can't tell the officer.

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Speaker 1: I feared for my life in that situation, can you?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: You can. But you're still going to jail, okay, because

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Speaker 2: because because because the way that standard ground laws work

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Speaker 2: is that all the standred ground law is. And there's

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Speaker 2: so much misunderstanding about what this is Indiana. Does indian

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Speaker 2: have a standard ground law? Well, yes, we have a

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Speaker 2: self defense law and one line in that in that law,

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Speaker 2: the self Defense Statue of Indiana makes it a standard

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Speaker 2: ground law. And here's how this works. For instance, the

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Speaker 2: general self Defense Statute that would apply in the hypothetical

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Speaker 2: you just threw out Jason says that I can use

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Speaker 2: reasonable force, including deadly force, if I reasonably believe that

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Speaker 2: that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to

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Speaker 2: me or a third person, or the commission of a

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Speaker 2: force felony.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of like your client, the Greenwood kid.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, the Greenwood mulkey, and all it says

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Speaker 2: is part of that is with no duty to retreat,

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Speaker 2: And those words, just those few words right there, with

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Speaker 2: no duty to retreat makes it a stand your ground law.

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Speaker 2: In other words, if I reasonably believe I'm defending myself

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Speaker 2: against serious bodily injury or in Eli's case, exactly to

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Speaker 2: your point, defending other people against serious bodily injury or death,

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Speaker 2: I don't have to run away first before I can

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Speaker 2: stand my ground and defend myself. But it's all contingent

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Speaker 2: on meeting that first test, which is if and only

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Speaker 2: if I reasonably not just believe, but reasonably believe I'm

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Speaker 2: preventing serious bodily injury to me or a third person.

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Speaker 2: So if I just walk in a bar where I

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Speaker 2: heard gunfire and start spraying rounds around I do that?

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Speaker 2: Do I reasonably believe that that action is necessary to

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Speaker 2: prevent serious bodily injury to me? First of all, I

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Speaker 2: walked in the bar. If there's gunshots from in the bar,

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Speaker 2: why didn't I just keep going? Right? But if I

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Speaker 2: walk in the bar, what do I reasonably believe in

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Speaker 2: that circumstance? And the reasonable part of this is huge,

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Speaker 2: because you can say I feared for my life, I

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Speaker 2: feared from my life. I feared from my life all

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Speaker 2: day long. That makes no difference whatsoever if that belief

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Speaker 2: isn't reasonable under what we call the totality of the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: And that's why how self defense cases are tried. I

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Speaker 2: know I try them.

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Speaker 1: Does it make a difference what the perpetrator is doing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So you get somebody breaks into your home and he's

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Speaker 1: face to face with you, You, in theory, can fear

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Speaker 1: for your life and blow them away. But if somebody

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Speaker 1: breaks into your home and realizes, oh my god, somebody's

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Speaker 1: home and turns around and makes a run for it,

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Speaker 1: you can't shoot them in the back.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a really great question. See now by moving

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Speaker 2: the whole hypothetical adjacent into your home, now the rules

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Speaker 2: are different. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So there's a big difference between you get public place

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Speaker 1: in your.

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Speaker 2: Home because now we're talking about not the general self

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Speaker 2: defense rule. Now we're talking about the castle doctrine. And

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Speaker 2: the castle doctrine is its different set of rules. It's

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Speaker 2: a different sub section within that same statue. Anybody wants

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Speaker 2: to look this up, you want to read the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: It's Indiana Code Section thirty thirty five forty one DOSH

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Speaker 2: three DESH two Okay, and we just moved from subsection

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Speaker 2: C to subsection D. And that's the castle doctrine, okay.

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Speaker 2: And what it says is I can use reasonable force,

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Speaker 2: including deadly force, with no duty to retreat.

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Speaker 1: Aha.

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Speaker 2: That means it's a standard ground law. I don't I

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Speaker 2: don't have to run out the back door first.

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Speaker 1: That's all.

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Speaker 2: That means. I don't have to run out the back

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Speaker 2: door first. If I reasonably believe I'm either preventing or

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Speaker 2: terminating that is, my deadly force is necessary. Keyword to

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Speaker 2: prevent or terminate an unlawful entry into or attack on

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Speaker 2: my dwelling, that's where I live. Now. That can be

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Speaker 2: permanent or temporary, movable or fixed, meaning it could be

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Speaker 2: my mobile home when I'm sleeping in the in the

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Speaker 2: RV park. It could be my apartment that I'm renting

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Speaker 2: for the for a moment. It can be my hotel,

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Speaker 2: and of course it can be my house. But if

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Speaker 2: I reasonably believe that I'm preventing or terminating an unlawful

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Speaker 2: entry into or attack on my dwelling, and that use

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Speaker 2: of deadly forces necessary, and that's a keyword in the statute,

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Speaker 2: I can use deadly force. That's the that's the that's

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Speaker 2: the castle doctrine. But to your question, which is such

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Speaker 2: an excellent question, if somebody turns around, sees me and

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Speaker 2: and was running now for the door, saying, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I get out of here, is any use of force

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Speaker 2: necessary in that circumstance, Because necessary is a key requirement

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Speaker 2: of the statute. If I just need to stand there

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Speaker 2: and watch them leave and no force is necessary, then

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Speaker 2: it's a different ball game. That's why it's a good question. Now,

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Speaker 2: inside your home, most prosecutors are going to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: he broke in, you shot him. I'm really not going

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Speaker 2: to pick that under those circumstances. But I always tell people,

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Speaker 2: and I teach this stuff all the time. The word

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Speaker 2: necessary is in there. And if somebody's running out on

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Speaker 2: their own yard on the her, oh that's over. You

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Speaker 2: can't shoot them at that point they're running away? Absolutely not,

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Speaker 2: I mean again, and these cases get prosecuted. You know,

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Speaker 2: there are cases where somebody's trying to break into your

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Speaker 2: car and you say, hey, you know, you see them

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Speaker 2: on the ring doorbell, you say, get out of my

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Speaker 2: you know, get get away from my car, and then

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Speaker 2: you chase them down the road and shoot them. Is

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Speaker 2: it running away? Now you're going to jail and stand

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Speaker 2: your ground. Laws, contrary to the Wall Street Journal, don't

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Speaker 2: justify that in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: So if going back to our original scenario here hypothetical,

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Speaker 1: let's say I'm going out to the Havedo Ultra Lounge

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Speaker 1: on Saturday, just hypothetically, hypothetically, you know the coupon lady,

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Speaker 1: and I walk in. I was able to get past security.

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Speaker 1: I've got a weapon on me, and I see somebody

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Speaker 1: starting to fire shots and they turn away. They weren't

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Speaker 1: firing at me. But in that case, could I eliminate

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Speaker 1: the threats?

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Speaker 2: Yes, because first of all, you have to you have

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Speaker 2: to be preventing the unlawful use of force, right, So

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Speaker 2: if that's a police officer doing their job or something

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Speaker 2: like that, then it's off the table. But if you

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Speaker 2: reasonably believe that person is just going to murder people

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Speaker 2: by pulling their gun in that nightclub, can you, even

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Speaker 2: as not the intended victim, but as a third party,

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Speaker 2: prevent that serious bodily injury to someone else. Of course,

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Speaker 2: that's the Eli Dickins scenario in the Greenwood Park Mall,

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Speaker 2: which is at not only is justified, but makes him

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Speaker 2: an incredible hero.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, Monday Gun Day with the best

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Speaker 4: two way attorney and all of America, Guy Relford, host

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Speaker 4: of the Gun Guys show, Guys Supreme Court, they've taken

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Speaker 4: up another two way.

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Speaker 2: Case they have. This is the Hamani case. And this

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Speaker 2: is really interesting and this bears on a case that

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Speaker 2: got a lot of media exposer as it should. When

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Speaker 2: Hunter Biden got convicted of federal law and of course

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Speaker 2: until Daddy pardoned him, he was looking at some serious

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Speaker 2: jail time I think the auto Yeah, well good point. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we know because there's a picture of it in the

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Speaker 2: galaxy in the White House. But yeah, Hunter Biden was

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Speaker 2: convicted under the statute that says it's illegal for you

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Speaker 2: to possess a firearm or attempt to purchase a firearm

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Speaker 2: if you're a user of or addicted to any illegal drugs.

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Speaker 2: And the monic case is really interesting because it involves

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Speaker 2: a guide who admitted to being a regular user of marijuana. Well,

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Speaker 2: there's no accusation he was high at the time that

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Speaker 2: he possessed a firearm, but he was a regular user

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Speaker 2: of marijuana, and marijuana, as ridiculous as this is, remains

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Speaker 2: an illegal drug under the federal controlled substances that have.

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Speaker 1: Made it legal. But under the federal law it's illegal.

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Speaker 2: Not always it illegal. It's like a Schedule one or

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Speaker 2: Schedule A or however that works, where it's the worst

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Speaker 2: of the drugs. It's in the category up but with

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Speaker 2: meth and cocaine and heroin, And as ridiculous as that is,

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Speaker 2: that's the way federal law is currently structured. So this

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Speaker 2: guy admitted to being a regular user of marijuana, he

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Speaker 2: gets prosecuted, and he gets convicted of a federal crime.

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Speaker 2: Looking at Saria's prison time because he possessed a gun

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Speaker 2: while also being a quote unquote regular user of marijuana.

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Speaker 2: The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals that oversees Texas, where

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Speaker 2: this case came out of, I believe, found that to

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Speaker 2: be unconstitutional, and the Justice Department, interestingly enough, appealed it,

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Speaker 2: and now it's in front of the Supremes. And I

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Speaker 2: just think this is really interesting because because listen, I'm

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Speaker 2: not a marijuana user. I learned in college that marijuana

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Speaker 2: and I don't get along, right. I want to assume

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Speaker 2: the fetal position, and hal is that the excuse I'm

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Speaker 2: going to I inhaled too much, apparently because it makes

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Speaker 2: me completely anti social and paranoid. But it may be

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Speaker 2: a Germaine issue with people in my family, And so

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Speaker 2: I think it's ridiculous that marijuana is illegal to begin with,

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Speaker 2: but it's certainly illegal for someone as to choose between

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Speaker 2: their constitutional rights and smoking a joint from time to

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Speaker 2: so that Supreme Court is going to rule on that.

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Speaker 1: Where can people find you, maybe hire you if they've

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Speaker 1: got questions? How can they reach out?

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Speaker 2: Man? Follow me on Twitter and give me a follow

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Speaker 2: while you're on there. I'm just at Guy Ralford on

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Speaker 2: Twitter or x at Guy Ralford.

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Speaker 1: What an hour we've had Grady Judd and Guy Ralph,

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Speaker 1: incredible Hover and Nigel's show Baby.

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Speaker 2: Thanks guys,