1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,827 Speaker 1: from newstalk edb Well. 3 00:00:12,907 --> 00:00:16,707 Speaker 2: Jack White wrote a very interesting opinion piece. You might 4 00:00:16,747 --> 00:00:18,747 Speaker 2: be able to check it out on Rugby Pass this 5 00:00:18,827 --> 00:00:21,707 Speaker 2: afternoon if you get a moment or so. Eligibility wise, 6 00:00:21,987 --> 00:00:24,587 Speaker 2: always a thorny topic when it comes to New Zealand 7 00:00:24,667 --> 00:00:28,827 Speaker 2: rugby and the All Blacks picking players from overseas or not. 8 00:00:29,027 --> 00:00:33,507 Speaker 2: It's again read its heads with All Blacks coach Scott 9 00:00:33,587 --> 00:00:36,987 Speaker 2: Robinson asked about it after the final game of the 10 00:00:37,027 --> 00:00:41,147 Speaker 2: Test season last week by media. He's spoken about it before, 11 00:00:41,147 --> 00:00:43,667 Speaker 2: of course, and has used the phrase he used last 12 00:00:43,667 --> 00:00:46,947 Speaker 2: week open mind or keeping an open mind before, But 13 00:00:47,067 --> 00:00:50,107 Speaker 2: this time he's going to present to the New Zealand 14 00:00:50,147 --> 00:00:54,067 Speaker 2: Rugby board arms with a bit more information, some data. 15 00:00:54,147 --> 00:00:57,387 Speaker 2: He's had fourteen tests in charge, of course, this year 16 00:00:57,467 --> 00:01:01,187 Speaker 2: he's coached at Test level for the first time. He's 17 00:01:01,187 --> 00:01:03,147 Speaker 2: got more evidence as to where the game is heating 18 00:01:03,187 --> 00:01:06,667 Speaker 2: and being able to pick players from overseas certainly seems 19 00:01:06,667 --> 00:01:11,947 Speaker 2: that his perspective is some ability to pet players from 20 00:01:12,107 --> 00:01:15,027 Speaker 2: off sure this, of course, with Richie Wonger currently playing 21 00:01:15,507 --> 00:01:20,307 Speaker 2: his rugby at Toshiba in Japan, suggestions and reports abound 22 00:01:20,467 --> 00:01:23,307 Speaker 2: that he is poised to sign with New Zealand Rugby. Again, 23 00:01:23,387 --> 00:01:27,547 Speaker 2: nothing official on that front at this point in time. 24 00:01:28,667 --> 00:01:31,667 Speaker 2: As I say, former Springbox coach Jack Whitter will cut 25 00:01:31,707 --> 00:01:34,267 Speaker 2: winning one at that writing column for Rugby Pass in 26 00:01:34,307 --> 00:01:37,107 Speaker 2: the last day or so and this line from it, 27 00:01:37,387 --> 00:01:39,627 Speaker 2: Scott Robinson's event would have been frustrated to have gone 28 00:01:39,667 --> 00:01:41,987 Speaker 2: down to France by a point and failed to put 29 00:01:41,987 --> 00:01:44,587 Speaker 2: away Italy after they put ninety six points on them 30 00:01:44,627 --> 00:01:46,907 Speaker 2: just over a year ago. I can understand them looking 31 00:01:46,947 --> 00:01:49,467 Speaker 2: around and saying, maybe you just bring in the overseas guys, 32 00:01:49,787 --> 00:01:51,787 Speaker 2: But I don't think that's a silver lot to solve 33 00:01:51,787 --> 00:01:56,467 Speaker 2: their desperation to retain the crown as the world's best team. 34 00:01:56,547 --> 00:01:59,667 Speaker 2: It's a colmn worth reading, but to explain more. Jake White, 35 00:01:59,747 --> 00:02:03,427 Speaker 2: former Springbox coach now the Bulls director of Rugby, joins 36 00:02:03,507 --> 00:02:06,827 Speaker 2: us on newstalk ZEBB this afternoon. Jake, thanks so much 37 00:02:06,867 --> 00:02:07,347 Speaker 2: for your time. 38 00:02:07,747 --> 00:02:10,667 Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm I'm glad I can join you jus. 39 00:02:10,747 --> 00:02:12,787 Speaker 2: Jake, I really enjoyed reading that piece that you wrote 40 00:02:12,787 --> 00:02:16,027 Speaker 2: for Ruggy Pass. It was thought provoking. Look, I've tried 41 00:02:16,067 --> 00:02:18,707 Speaker 2: to summarize it for our listeners, But in your own words, 42 00:02:18,707 --> 00:02:21,867 Speaker 2: perhaps explain to us why you believe that it would 43 00:02:21,907 --> 00:02:25,387 Speaker 2: be the wrong step for New Zealand rugby to open 44 00:02:25,467 --> 00:02:27,987 Speaker 2: the eligibility doors to players from abroad. 45 00:02:28,907 --> 00:02:29,107 Speaker 1: Yeah. 46 00:02:29,627 --> 00:02:32,987 Speaker 3: I look, I I'm old school and I and I 47 00:02:33,067 --> 00:02:34,907 Speaker 3: you know they will. It's a debate. It's a debate, 48 00:02:35,067 --> 00:02:37,827 Speaker 3: but there will be people that go, which they have been. 49 00:02:37,867 --> 00:02:41,387 Speaker 3: I've been following the bloggers and there's a lot of 50 00:02:41,667 --> 00:02:43,787 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of sentiment about come on, it's 51 00:02:44,107 --> 00:02:48,627 Speaker 3: it's in modern times. It's players can earn money, Surely 52 00:02:48,707 --> 00:02:51,787 Speaker 3: they can player this season, play for their country. I 53 00:02:51,947 --> 00:02:54,507 Speaker 3: just think, you know, it's not it's not but chance 54 00:02:54,547 --> 00:02:56,787 Speaker 3: that the four out of the five or father of 55 00:02:56,787 --> 00:03:01,227 Speaker 3: the top six teams don't pick foreign both players. England don't, 56 00:03:01,267 --> 00:03:06,427 Speaker 3: France don't, New Zealand don't, and Ireland don't and and 57 00:03:06,507 --> 00:03:09,547 Speaker 3: they they all can they consistently stay on the top 58 00:03:09,627 --> 00:03:13,467 Speaker 3: of world rugby. So you know, I asked myself the question, 59 00:03:13,547 --> 00:03:15,067 Speaker 3: and I asked a couple of guys because I knew 60 00:03:15,067 --> 00:03:17,147 Speaker 3: you were going to own me tonight. And Eliot, it's 61 00:03:17,227 --> 00:03:20,427 Speaker 3: very simple. If we had lost the quarterfinal by one point, 62 00:03:20,547 --> 00:03:22,547 Speaker 3: and I know he will won the quarter final by one, 63 00:03:22,627 --> 00:03:25,787 Speaker 3: the semi final by one, the final by one. If 64 00:03:25,787 --> 00:03:28,307 Speaker 3: we had lost the quarterfinal by one point, would the 65 00:03:28,347 --> 00:03:31,747 Speaker 3: world be following our model and saying that picking foreign 66 00:03:31,827 --> 00:03:33,827 Speaker 3: those claes is the way to go forward. And I'm 67 00:03:33,827 --> 00:03:35,787 Speaker 3: not so sure that that would give a model even 68 00:03:35,867 --> 00:03:36,267 Speaker 3: we'd want. 69 00:03:37,107 --> 00:03:39,547 Speaker 2: It's focused around I guess Richie Mulwanga from a New 70 00:03:39,627 --> 00:03:43,187 Speaker 2: Zealand perspective and getting him back from overseas. But if 71 00:03:43,227 --> 00:03:45,387 Speaker 2: the doors were open and he was still playing in 72 00:03:45,467 --> 00:03:48,027 Speaker 2: Japan you could pick him from. Then it would allow 73 00:03:48,107 --> 00:03:51,027 Speaker 2: Sam Kaine, for example, to be picked. But do you 74 00:03:51,027 --> 00:03:53,787 Speaker 2: think it's a dangerous precedent to peck it on the 75 00:03:53,787 --> 00:03:56,867 Speaker 2: basis of say one player or one glas at a 76 00:03:56,867 --> 00:03:58,307 Speaker 2: certain point in history. 77 00:04:00,067 --> 00:04:01,827 Speaker 3: Well, you could have won the World Cup with Nick 78 00:04:01,827 --> 00:04:06,827 Speaker 3: Evans and you went for Stephen Donald. You so again, 79 00:04:06,867 --> 00:04:09,307 Speaker 3: someone said to me the fourth or fifth and when 80 00:04:09,307 --> 00:04:11,107 Speaker 3: you had Nick Evans playing at all, Equins was on 81 00:04:11,147 --> 00:04:13,667 Speaker 3: top of his game playing in the UK, didn't get 82 00:04:13,667 --> 00:04:16,187 Speaker 3: picked for the World Cup. Pick Stephen Donald, who was white. 83 00:04:16,267 --> 00:04:19,787 Speaker 3: They fishing ended up winning the World Cup. So you know, 84 00:04:19,787 --> 00:04:22,867 Speaker 3: it's ironic. I think that if you look, you really 85 00:04:22,947 --> 00:04:24,827 Speaker 3: have never had to pick foreign base players and I've 86 00:04:24,827 --> 00:04:28,027 Speaker 3: still won three World Cups, so you know, I don't 87 00:04:28,067 --> 00:04:31,147 Speaker 3: I don't think that it is my mumble opinion. I 88 00:04:31,147 --> 00:04:33,507 Speaker 3: don't think that Richie no Longer is going to make 89 00:04:33,507 --> 00:04:34,987 Speaker 3: you win the World Cup. I think you've got enough 90 00:04:35,027 --> 00:04:39,307 Speaker 3: rugby players there. And if it means that you're going 91 00:04:39,387 --> 00:04:41,867 Speaker 3: to pick rich In no Longer and Tazzelle as a 92 00:04:41,987 --> 00:04:44,187 Speaker 3: loose forward you end up winning the World Cup, well 93 00:04:44,227 --> 00:04:47,587 Speaker 3: then I think the problem is much deeper than you 94 00:04:47,667 --> 00:04:48,627 Speaker 3: guys foresee. 95 00:04:49,627 --> 00:04:51,147 Speaker 2: At the top of your call, and you mentioned some 96 00:04:51,187 --> 00:04:55,227 Speaker 2: of the sacrifices rig Komba and the finger being amputated, 97 00:04:55,307 --> 00:05:01,587 Speaker 2: Buck Shelford of course in the the Stray Boots, and yes, 98 00:05:01,747 --> 00:05:04,547 Speaker 2: Sam Whitelock's grandfather, you mentioneds Well Nelson dale Zel who 99 00:05:04,587 --> 00:05:06,027 Speaker 2: was injured in the Second World Will went on to 100 00:05:06,067 --> 00:05:08,787 Speaker 2: play of the All Blacks and that sacrifice. You know, 101 00:05:09,067 --> 00:05:12,347 Speaker 2: you go overseas, you sacrifice something, and that is in 102 00:05:12,387 --> 00:05:15,347 Speaker 2: this case in All Blacks Jersey. 103 00:05:16,107 --> 00:05:18,187 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean, you know, there's a very 104 00:05:18,267 --> 00:05:20,587 Speaker 3: very easy thing to say, you've got to sacrifice, and 105 00:05:20,947 --> 00:05:23,667 Speaker 3: sacrifice has got to hurt. I mean, it's easy to say, 106 00:05:24,547 --> 00:05:26,187 Speaker 3: you know, I know, we're living in modern towth. But 107 00:05:26,227 --> 00:05:29,387 Speaker 3: I think I can't overemphasize enough that I think having 108 00:05:29,627 --> 00:05:34,587 Speaker 3: toured New Zealand many times, having what's from outside how 109 00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:39,387 Speaker 3: important the black jersey is, having read many many, you know, 110 00:05:39,747 --> 00:05:42,507 Speaker 3: books about how important the black jersey is, having seen 111 00:05:42,547 --> 00:05:45,507 Speaker 3: many documentaries about how important the black jerseys, I think 112 00:05:45,587 --> 00:05:48,987 Speaker 3: you open that gate and you allow foreign players that 113 00:05:49,027 --> 00:05:52,387 Speaker 3: are playing abroad to pick for your country, I think 114 00:05:52,387 --> 00:05:54,827 Speaker 3: you're going to lose something that's very, very unique in 115 00:05:54,867 --> 00:05:56,787 Speaker 3: your country. And that is the thing I think it 116 00:05:56,947 --> 00:05:59,987 Speaker 3: keeps to all blacks from outside. That's the thing that 117 00:06:00,027 --> 00:06:02,867 Speaker 3: I see that keeps the all blacks as competitive as 118 00:06:02,907 --> 00:06:06,787 Speaker 3: any country in any sport. You're after you, and once 119 00:06:06,827 --> 00:06:10,827 Speaker 3: you change that, I'm not convinced you you you're ever 120 00:06:10,867 --> 00:06:11,667 Speaker 3: going to get it back. 121 00:06:12,507 --> 00:06:15,147 Speaker 2: We probably look at South Africa at the moment and go, well, 122 00:06:15,147 --> 00:06:17,227 Speaker 2: you can peck all these players from overseas, and then 123 00:06:17,227 --> 00:06:19,427 Speaker 2: the ones that are developing in US size like the 124 00:06:19,427 --> 00:06:22,187 Speaker 2: one that your director of rugby forore and gives them 125 00:06:22,187 --> 00:06:25,467 Speaker 2: a wider Paul. But do you think that's not necessarily 126 00:06:25,467 --> 00:06:28,587 Speaker 2: it's just a happenstance of Because we're at this point 127 00:06:28,587 --> 00:06:30,347 Speaker 2: in time South Africa has got the depth, it will 128 00:06:30,347 --> 00:06:32,787 Speaker 2: swing back at some other points in New Zealand other 129 00:06:32,827 --> 00:06:34,947 Speaker 2: countries around the world. That you know, this is just 130 00:06:34,987 --> 00:06:36,947 Speaker 2: a moment in time with the depth scenario for the 131 00:06:36,987 --> 00:06:37,467 Speaker 2: all Blacks. 132 00:06:39,347 --> 00:06:41,387 Speaker 3: That's exactly what I think. I think it all goes 133 00:06:41,427 --> 00:06:44,307 Speaker 3: in cycles. You know, people said, oh, if it wasn't 134 00:06:44,307 --> 00:06:46,907 Speaker 3: for few players playing overseas, we wouldn't have produced the 135 00:06:47,027 --> 00:06:50,187 Speaker 3: Canaan Moodies and wouldn't have produced the youngsters that are 136 00:06:50,187 --> 00:06:53,947 Speaker 3: coming through wetly. That is very simply where did all 137 00:06:53,987 --> 00:06:56,347 Speaker 3: the young players come through in the old days? Where 138 00:06:56,347 --> 00:07:00,587 Speaker 3: did you know the alkest name on the poor villain 139 00:07:00,667 --> 00:07:03,547 Speaker 3: says thet the Yakas and all that come through when 140 00:07:03,547 --> 00:07:06,027 Speaker 3: we had a generation of players who never left the shores. 141 00:07:07,227 --> 00:07:10,467 Speaker 3: So I think it's one eye to suggest that because 142 00:07:10,507 --> 00:07:13,547 Speaker 3: people are playing overseas, therefore we produce better players in 143 00:07:13,587 --> 00:07:17,267 Speaker 3: South Africa. I really don't believe that that's the case. 144 00:07:17,387 --> 00:07:19,947 Speaker 3: I mean, we produce some very very good rugby players, 145 00:07:19,947 --> 00:07:22,627 Speaker 3: in fact, the best players in the world in the 146 00:07:22,707 --> 00:07:24,987 Speaker 3: times that no one was allowed to play over season, 147 00:07:25,027 --> 00:07:28,187 Speaker 3: no one was picked from playing overseas. So I genuinely 148 00:07:28,227 --> 00:07:29,947 Speaker 3: don't think it's one or the other. 149 00:07:30,267 --> 00:07:33,227 Speaker 2: Two thousand and seven Rugby All Cup winning coach Jake White, 150 00:07:33,547 --> 00:07:35,027 Speaker 2: who won up with the spring Box with us on 151 00:07:35,067 --> 00:07:38,547 Speaker 2: Weekend Sport, is currently the Blue Balls Director of Rugby. 152 00:07:39,147 --> 00:07:40,907 Speaker 2: Jake Obviously, there's been a lot of success for the 153 00:07:40,907 --> 00:07:46,347 Speaker 2: spring Box since they change those eligibility laws and these 154 00:07:46,347 --> 00:07:49,307 Speaker 2: circumstances dictating it around the rands and the power of 155 00:07:49,347 --> 00:07:52,467 Speaker 2: that abroad. But do you think that anyone will go Actually, 156 00:07:52,467 --> 00:07:54,387 Speaker 2: we need to wind this back and get our players 157 00:07:54,427 --> 00:07:56,867 Speaker 2: back playing in South Africa domestically. 158 00:07:58,667 --> 00:08:00,467 Speaker 3: Well, I'll answer your question. If there's anyone who's over 159 00:08:00,547 --> 00:08:02,427 Speaker 3: there that wanted like that, it's me. I mean, I 160 00:08:03,867 --> 00:08:07,107 Speaker 3: coach a provincial side in South Africa and we must 161 00:08:07,187 --> 00:08:09,307 Speaker 3: never kill the goose that lays the golden neck. If 162 00:08:09,307 --> 00:08:11,107 Speaker 3: it's going to be a free for all where everyone 163 00:08:11,107 --> 00:08:13,387 Speaker 3: can go overseason still playing in the national rugby, then 164 00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:16,307 Speaker 3: what happened is that the domestic rugby in our country 165 00:08:16,347 --> 00:08:19,747 Speaker 3: will die. And you know, the supporters won't put money 166 00:08:19,747 --> 00:08:22,267 Speaker 3: into the game, the sponsors won't put money into the game, 167 00:08:22,307 --> 00:08:25,587 Speaker 3: the supporters won't come to the games and watch live 168 00:08:25,667 --> 00:08:28,667 Speaker 3: rugby because the best players will be playing in other competitions. 169 00:08:28,667 --> 00:08:30,947 Speaker 3: So you know, we've got to be careful what we 170 00:08:31,027 --> 00:08:32,827 Speaker 3: wish for because if all the best players in New 171 00:08:32,907 --> 00:08:34,827 Speaker 3: Zealand on ever in New Zealand and they only played 172 00:08:34,867 --> 00:08:36,467 Speaker 3: for the All Blacks, well, when you're going to kill 173 00:08:36,467 --> 00:08:38,507 Speaker 3: your domestic game. And the one thing New Zealand have 174 00:08:39,507 --> 00:08:42,707 Speaker 3: managed to do with a very small population is build 175 00:08:42,787 --> 00:08:46,067 Speaker 3: up their grassroots, their club rugby, their schools rugby, their 176 00:08:46,547 --> 00:08:50,107 Speaker 3: university rugby, you know, even their women's rugby at the stage. 177 00:08:50,147 --> 00:08:52,347 Speaker 3: So you know, there's no doubt in my mind that 178 00:08:53,387 --> 00:08:55,227 Speaker 3: you know, once you open the gates, and I'll say 179 00:08:55,227 --> 00:08:57,227 Speaker 3: it again, you're got, you're going to lose something that's 180 00:08:57,347 --> 00:08:58,867 Speaker 3: very very special to New Zealand. 181 00:08:59,627 --> 00:09:02,067 Speaker 2: Just finally, on that point, Jake, the line your ruggy 182 00:09:02,067 --> 00:09:04,707 Speaker 2: past thing is that short term gain for long term 183 00:09:04,747 --> 00:09:07,747 Speaker 2: pain because once you open that that gate, you can't 184 00:09:07,747 --> 00:09:10,347 Speaker 2: really close it, can you From a New Zealand perspective. 185 00:09:11,907 --> 00:09:13,907 Speaker 3: Well, I mean you go back and rowind the clock. 186 00:09:13,947 --> 00:09:16,227 Speaker 3: Once you put a sponse on your jersey, that was gone. 187 00:09:16,307 --> 00:09:18,347 Speaker 3: You know, you guys are one for years and years 188 00:09:18,347 --> 00:09:20,987 Speaker 3: without having to put response on the front of your 189 00:09:21,067 --> 00:09:24,627 Speaker 3: jumper and you still won World Cups. So it does work. 190 00:09:25,067 --> 00:09:28,187 Speaker 3: It does work. I think you know, I just said 191 00:09:28,267 --> 00:09:29,987 Speaker 3: to someone tonight. I knew you were going to call me, 192 00:09:29,987 --> 00:09:31,587 Speaker 3: and I was going to ask you a question. You know, 193 00:09:31,627 --> 00:09:34,747 Speaker 3: if I'd said to you ten years ago that a 194 00:09:34,867 --> 00:09:37,387 Speaker 3: boyfriend a matter we'd be playing for Scotland, you would 195 00:09:37,387 --> 00:09:39,747 Speaker 3: have thought I was crazy. I told you ten years 196 00:09:39,747 --> 00:09:43,227 Speaker 3: ago that Israel Filao could play for Australia and for Tonga, 197 00:09:43,227 --> 00:09:46,307 Speaker 3: you would have said, I'm crazy, you know. And that's 198 00:09:46,307 --> 00:09:48,947 Speaker 3: what happened. Is slowly but surely, we just be eroding 199 00:09:49,027 --> 00:09:51,147 Speaker 3: the thing that was so unique about our game, and 200 00:09:51,187 --> 00:09:54,707 Speaker 3: that was to play for your country in the national anthem. 201 00:09:54,747 --> 00:09:56,907 Speaker 3: And I and then I came up with an idea. 202 00:09:56,907 --> 00:09:59,107 Speaker 3: And I know it's completely left field, but so is 203 00:09:59,147 --> 00:10:01,387 Speaker 3: where we are now in terms of what old school 204 00:10:01,387 --> 00:10:04,667 Speaker 3: people thought. But what's to stop us from in ten 205 00:10:04,747 --> 00:10:07,547 Speaker 3: years Palm saying that everybody who plays in the Premiership 206 00:10:07,587 --> 00:10:09,747 Speaker 3: in England can play for England, and everyone who plays 207 00:10:09,747 --> 00:10:12,707 Speaker 3: in the Japanese league can play for Japan and everyone 208 00:10:12,747 --> 00:10:15,827 Speaker 3: that plays in the French league can play for France. 209 00:10:15,827 --> 00:10:18,587 Speaker 3: So if you tie WEE Fijian, Georgian and you play 210 00:10:18,587 --> 00:10:21,227 Speaker 3: in that league, you can play for that country. I 211 00:10:21,267 --> 00:10:23,547 Speaker 3: mean if I said that now, people would go you 212 00:10:23,627 --> 00:10:26,227 Speaker 3: lost your marble stack. You you've got no idea where 213 00:10:26,227 --> 00:10:29,387 Speaker 3: we're going. But I mean, what's changed? We we we 214 00:10:29,747 --> 00:10:32,587 Speaker 3: you know. I was. I was at Montpelier when when 215 00:10:32,947 --> 00:10:35,467 Speaker 3: Duan Famava asked me, please, I need to get out 216 00:10:35,507 --> 00:10:38,867 Speaker 3: of my contract. I need to get to Edinburgh. They've 217 00:10:38,867 --> 00:10:41,147 Speaker 3: ear marked me as a guy can play for Scotland. 218 00:10:41,547 --> 00:10:43,267 Speaker 3: I need to be there by the end of the year. 219 00:10:43,307 --> 00:10:46,227 Speaker 3: Otherwise I've losed a three year window. If I go 220 00:10:46,347 --> 00:10:48,667 Speaker 3: in January, I've got to wait five years. So I was. 221 00:10:48,827 --> 00:10:52,427 Speaker 3: I was part of that whole Chansfer when when he 222 00:10:52,507 --> 00:10:55,067 Speaker 3: was earmarked by the by the Scottish rugby Union to 223 00:10:55,147 --> 00:10:58,027 Speaker 3: come across. Now, I mean, that's why I wrote in 224 00:10:58,067 --> 00:11:01,267 Speaker 3: that article about you know, the foreign players as well. 225 00:11:01,347 --> 00:11:04,187 Speaker 3: I mean I've never I've never, probably because I've lived 226 00:11:04,187 --> 00:11:05,987 Speaker 3: in a country we have so many players a bit 227 00:11:06,027 --> 00:11:08,787 Speaker 3: like you Zealand. Maybe I would think differently if I 228 00:11:08,827 --> 00:11:10,507 Speaker 3: was in a small nation where I could go in 229 00:11:10,507 --> 00:11:14,427 Speaker 3: ahead and the best forty fifty juniors every year, put 230 00:11:14,427 --> 00:11:16,947 Speaker 3: them in academy and then bring them through for my country. 231 00:11:16,987 --> 00:11:19,387 Speaker 3: But is that is that the way it's going to go. 232 00:11:19,547 --> 00:11:21,867 Speaker 3: Is that where the minor unions are going to go 233 00:11:21,987 --> 00:11:25,307 Speaker 3: and start academies where they where they go and you know, 234 00:11:25,827 --> 00:11:28,307 Speaker 3: you know, get and recruit the best juniors and then 235 00:11:28,347 --> 00:11:32,707 Speaker 3: basically everything in your country is meaningless because I mean 236 00:11:33,027 --> 00:11:34,907 Speaker 3: with what you could have, you could use me example, 237 00:11:35,027 --> 00:11:37,707 Speaker 3: like like Wales if they went and got the fifteen 238 00:11:37,747 --> 00:11:40,387 Speaker 3: best Kiwi players at school level and the twenty best 239 00:11:40,427 --> 00:11:42,867 Speaker 3: South African players and thirty five players every year when 240 00:11:42,947 --> 00:11:45,427 Speaker 3: to go and live in Wales and in five years 241 00:11:45,467 --> 00:11:49,147 Speaker 3: time those players are then all eligible for for Wales. 242 00:11:50,107 --> 00:11:51,907 Speaker 3: I mean I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's what 243 00:11:52,267 --> 00:11:54,867 Speaker 3: I'm not sure that's what Welsh rugby in the in 244 00:11:54,907 --> 00:11:57,467 Speaker 3: the valleys and where they come from would really want 245 00:11:57,507 --> 00:12:00,307 Speaker 3: as well. So that's why I said it's a debate, 246 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:02,987 Speaker 3: it's not it's not a view that I think everyone's 247 00:12:03,027 --> 00:12:06,347 Speaker 3: got an opinion. I just think that New Zealand need 248 00:12:06,467 --> 00:12:08,827 Speaker 3: to hang on to the thing they've hold so dearly 249 00:12:08,907 --> 00:12:12,387 Speaker 3: for so long. Otherwise I think that I think that 250 00:12:12,467 --> 00:12:14,987 Speaker 3: whatever they've done in the past then becomes meaningless. 251 00:12:15,387 --> 00:12:17,347 Speaker 2: Jack White with us on new Stalk hibt be Jack 252 00:12:17,387 --> 00:12:18,947 Speaker 2: before I let you go. It's an interesting point. And 253 00:12:19,187 --> 00:12:21,147 Speaker 2: your ten years time. Maybe down the track it will 254 00:12:21,187 --> 00:12:23,627 Speaker 2: be that case. Before I go, I want to get 255 00:12:24,067 --> 00:12:26,507 Speaker 2: your thoughts. You started at the start of a World 256 00:12:26,547 --> 00:12:29,627 Speaker 2: Cup cycle in two thousand and four. Scott Robertson's done 257 00:12:29,667 --> 00:12:31,467 Speaker 2: the same. What's your view on his first season and 258 00:12:31,587 --> 00:12:32,987 Speaker 2: charges as all Black seat coach? 259 00:12:35,627 --> 00:12:37,987 Speaker 3: Well, I think he had had met himself that coaching 260 00:12:38,027 --> 00:12:40,467 Speaker 3: test Rake me is very different to coaching a provincial 261 00:12:40,467 --> 00:12:42,987 Speaker 3: side like the Crsaders. I'm sure he's learned a lot 262 00:12:45,067 --> 00:12:46,827 Speaker 3: and you zilla Rugby will be back. I think the 263 00:12:46,867 --> 00:12:49,027 Speaker 3: one thing again, and this is why I can't. I 264 00:12:49,067 --> 00:12:51,547 Speaker 3: can't appraud you enough or praise you enough. I mean, 265 00:12:51,587 --> 00:12:54,347 Speaker 3: I've been privaged to sitting in a chains room with 266 00:12:54,427 --> 00:12:59,027 Speaker 3: Joe Hobbs and Alex Whyley and you know Brian Lahall, 267 00:12:59,147 --> 00:13:02,347 Speaker 3: so Brian Lahall and and you know the legends of 268 00:13:02,387 --> 00:13:04,587 Speaker 3: the game, sitting next to us in the chains room 269 00:13:04,627 --> 00:13:06,747 Speaker 3: having a debate about the Test match. I think the 270 00:13:06,787 --> 00:13:09,387 Speaker 3: one thing I think New Zealand they have got the 271 00:13:09,467 --> 00:13:11,387 Speaker 3: edge on every other country is they want to get 272 00:13:11,427 --> 00:13:14,347 Speaker 3: it right. They want to uphold all the things that 273 00:13:14,387 --> 00:13:16,867 Speaker 3: are important and they want to share whatever they have 274 00:13:16,987 --> 00:13:19,227 Speaker 3: to share to make sure that their country stays on 275 00:13:19,267 --> 00:13:21,707 Speaker 3: top of the world. So you know, I have no 276 00:13:21,827 --> 00:13:24,907 Speaker 3: doubt whatever they whatever mistakes they've made, whatever lessons they 277 00:13:24,947 --> 00:13:27,467 Speaker 3: need to learn, I'm sure they will learn them. I'm 278 00:13:27,467 --> 00:13:30,667 Speaker 3: sure that everyone involved in New Zealand rugby will will 279 00:13:30,707 --> 00:13:32,867 Speaker 3: contribute to them getting better. And I have no doubt 280 00:13:32,907 --> 00:13:34,867 Speaker 3: that in the next couple of years New Zealand rugby 281 00:13:34,867 --> 00:13:37,467 Speaker 3: will get strong and strong. And it won't be because 282 00:13:37,587 --> 00:13:41,107 Speaker 3: when two or three players back from overseas or play 283 00:13:41,187 --> 00:13:44,267 Speaker 3: them while they overseas. For the All Blacks, I still 284 00:13:44,307 --> 00:13:47,627 Speaker 3: think that their rugby culture, the whole, the whole or 285 00:13:48,187 --> 00:13:50,467 Speaker 3: everything they stand for in New Zealand rugby is much 286 00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:53,307 Speaker 3: stronger than any individual. And let's be fair, that has 287 00:13:53,347 --> 00:13:55,347 Speaker 3: been that has been the narrative that's come out of 288 00:13:55,347 --> 00:13:59,467 Speaker 3: New Zealand from day one is that no player is ever, ever, ever, 289 00:13:59,787 --> 00:14:02,387 Speaker 3: you know, stronger or ever more important than the jersey. 290 00:14:02,427 --> 00:14:04,147 Speaker 3: And you know long made that. 291 00:14:04,187 --> 00:14:07,067 Speaker 2: Last, Jack White, it has been a pleasure catching up 292 00:14:07,067 --> 00:14:08,747 Speaker 2: with you. Thank you very much for your thoughts and 293 00:14:08,987 --> 00:14:11,427 Speaker 2: wish you the best of luck tomorrow morning against Connaitt 294 00:14:11,427 --> 00:14:12,107 Speaker 2: New Zealand Time. 295 00:14:14,147 --> 00:14:16,667 Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much, all the best that. 296 00:14:16,707 --> 00:14:20,067 Speaker 2: Is Jake White joining us on News Talk zeb this afternoon. 297 00:14:20,067 --> 00:14:23,627 Speaker 2: You caught up with them in Galway, of all places, 298 00:14:23,867 --> 00:14:28,107 Speaker 2: the Blue Balls playing Connot's in the URC tomorrow morning. 299 00:14:28,467 --> 00:14:30,427 Speaker 2: Lucky enough to get some of Jake White's time. Great 300 00:14:30,427 --> 00:14:33,987 Speaker 2: to get an outsider's perspective on that eligibility. When I 301 00:14:34,027 --> 00:14:36,347 Speaker 2: saw that piece, because there's been a lot of column 302 00:14:36,347 --> 00:14:39,587 Speaker 2: inch's written this year from in New Zealand and externally 303 00:14:39,627 --> 00:14:42,427 Speaker 2: saying the All Blacks need to change their selection policy 304 00:14:42,467 --> 00:14:45,347 Speaker 2: and they need to pick players from Japan or wherever 305 00:14:45,467 --> 00:14:48,147 Speaker 2: else players might be playing. It was interesting to get 306 00:14:48,147 --> 00:14:52,267 Speaker 2: a World Cup winning coaches perspective from someone outside the country. He's, 307 00:14:52,427 --> 00:14:56,107 Speaker 2: as you heard there, very much against the prospect of 308 00:14:56,147 --> 00:15:00,387 Speaker 2: selecting players from abroad for the All Blacks. A specific 309 00:15:00,427 --> 00:15:05,387 Speaker 2: set of circumstances has led to South Africa doing it 310 00:15:05,747 --> 00:15:09,987 Speaker 2: around there economy. But he says, you know he listed 311 00:15:10,027 --> 00:15:12,947 Speaker 2: at the top, didn't he France, Ireland, England, All Blacks 312 00:15:12,987 --> 00:15:15,907 Speaker 2: don't select players from abroad. 313 00:15:16,827 --> 00:15:20,027 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 314 00:15:20,147 --> 00:15:23,427 Speaker 1: to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow 315 00:15:23,467 --> 00:15:25,067 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.