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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this

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Speaker 1: and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Straight down the middle of dry Dipney Scary.

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Speaker 1: Try these packet inside the game from every angle. It's

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Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by

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Speaker 1: News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you

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Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level.

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Speaker 2: Back for another week.

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Speaker 3: In the wake of the All Blacks forty three seventeen

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Speaker 3: win over France in Wellington wrapped up the Dave Gallagha

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Speaker 3: Trophy and first time they have won it since they

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Speaker 3: handed over to France in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Joining me is always.

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Speaker 3: Liam Napier from the New Zealand Herald and Liam welcome

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Speaker 3: in first and foremost a much improved All Blacks performance

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Speaker 3: to reflect on this week.

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Speaker 4: It was Elliott's great to see was that after what

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Speaker 4: we witnessed in Dunedan headed to our nation's capital, great

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Speaker 4: place that it is, and it's the Capital curse is

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Speaker 4: long gone.

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Speaker 5: The All Blacks are back and all as well in

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Speaker 5: the world.

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Speaker 2: Well the Capital curses God.

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Speaker 3: Although if there's been some sticking criticism of the capital

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Speaker 3: at large, including in the Hera by Colleigue Gregor Paul.

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Speaker 3: But if we look at this performance, it was, as

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Speaker 3: we say, much improved. But why was it much improved?

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Speaker 3: What were the All Blacks able to do better this week?

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Speaker 3: In wet's greasy a little bit greasy conditions? It stopped

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Speaker 3: running mid afternoon in Wellington. Compared to what they couldn't

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Speaker 3: do under the roof interned, oh.

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Speaker 5: A lot, almost everything.

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Speaker 4: Look, the set piece worked really well in Dunedin and

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Speaker 4: their attack was strong. They scored four tries and had

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Speaker 4: two sorry three denied, so there were positive aspects out

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Speaker 4: of a very disjointed, shaky, nervous performance first up, which

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Speaker 4: is quite traditional from the All Blacks in Wellington, their

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Speaker 4: defense was much stronger. They got off the line, there

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Speaker 4: was real intent, an aggression and what they were doing there.

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Speaker 4: They started really well and largely put France to bed,

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Speaker 4: didn't they four first half tries? It all started for

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Speaker 4: me with the All Blacks pack. They were so much

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Speaker 4: more direct, confrontational. They went through the heart of the

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Speaker 4: French defense. They offloaded, they played at pace. Their kicking

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Speaker 4: game was mixed at times, but on the whole the

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Speaker 4: strategy to turn France behind, get them pirouetting, have them

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Speaker 4: scramble the ball into touch really did payoff. It allowed

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Speaker 4: the All Blacks to set up camp, to really pressure

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Speaker 4: France and put the heat on them there and they

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Speaker 4: largely took their chances.

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Speaker 5: You know, the second half.

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Speaker 4: We can touch on it a bit more, but I

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Speaker 4: don't think they got much payoff the bench and perhaps

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Speaker 4: when as ruthless as they wanted to be, but when

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Speaker 4: you put a score on a team like that, it

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Speaker 4: does tend to happen. So vastly improved across the board.

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Speaker 4: We'll get your thoughts before we move on and look

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Speaker 4: at the context to which we view this as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was a much impro performance and

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Speaker 3: similar to you, it was set up by the full pack.

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Speaker 3: They did their work, they got into the tide exchanges

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Speaker 3: and were much better. I thought that the breakdown wasn't perfect,

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Speaker 3: but the speed to breakdown I thought was a lot

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Speaker 3: more efficient than it was in Dunedan. I think that

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Speaker 3: was still narrowly behind France and in terms of the

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Speaker 3: actual speed to breakdown and in terms of a matter

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Speaker 3: of a microsecond, but it was much improved, though a

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Speaker 3: lot quicker they were a lot more ruthless when they

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Speaker 3: had those opportunities inside the twenty two that we didn't

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Speaker 3: see last week in Dunedan, and we saw that probably

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Speaker 3: exemplified best when they had the opportunity that was finished

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Speaker 3: by two poy vii under the sticks. Now, that was

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Speaker 3: a lovely breakout All Blacks moves.

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Speaker 5: It was rugby from the gods.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was superb and they probably wouldn't have scored

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Speaker 3: that try last week they managed to finish. There were

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Speaker 3: players in the right places expecting the past, so they

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Speaker 3: had the bodies in motion that maybe they didn't have

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Speaker 3: Internedin last week, and everything they tried to do in

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Speaker 3: Deleding that didn't work kind of works. I thought. At

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Speaker 3: sky Stadium we all expected a bit of an aerial

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Speaker 3: kicking contest, and while there were plenty of kicks, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't for the aerial contest that maybe we expected that

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Speaker 3: match to be.

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Speaker 4: I think that's because France just didn't really get to

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Speaker 4: dictate terms.

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Speaker 5: And in Donedan, Yeah, the All.

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Speaker 4: Blacks kicked high a lot more, where there was much

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Speaker 4: more variety in their kicking game. They found the grass

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Speaker 4: a lot more. Even when they went to went high,

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Speaker 4: it was little chips over the top Boden Barrett Fiardi

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Speaker 4: severe but it really was tactically astute the way they

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Speaker 4: kept for the corners. They were looking for grass rather

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Speaker 4: than putting it in the air. And look, I think

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Speaker 4: we still saw that the All Blacks honorable under the

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Speaker 4: high ball. The wingers in particular. I think there's big

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Speaker 4: question marks about who the best wingers are for the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks right now and their work under the high

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Speaker 4: ball is still an issue.

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Speaker 3: I think so, remembering as well, they had Clark ruled

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Speaker 3: out twenty four hours or thereabouts out from kickoff, and

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Speaker 3: I think he would have been a better option under

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Speaker 3: the high ball than I think. Nada was pretty good

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Speaker 3: under the high ball and he plays a lot of

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Speaker 3: fallback as well sometimes the Chiefs, certainly at the NPC level,

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Speaker 3: but I think without Clark, they you know, he's so

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Speaker 3: good on the hindball that and big Test matches, you've

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Speaker 3: got to look to someone like him, and they didn't

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Speaker 3: have him obviously on the weekend in the Capital. If

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Speaker 3: we break this down a little bit more, it was

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Speaker 3: the pace they played it. I felt in the first

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Speaker 3: half half that France couldn't stick with. It was a

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Speaker 3: lot of hands on hips from the French midway through

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Speaker 3: thirty minutes into that game. Is that when they were

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Speaker 3: coming back to halfway after conceding tries, there was no

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Speaker 3: real energy to it and they didn't look like a

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Speaker 3: team that could fight their way back into the contest

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Speaker 3: at any point in the game. So it felt different

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Speaker 3: to the previous week. And I think you've got to

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Speaker 3: congratulate the All Blacks on what they were able to

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Speaker 3: do and the way they're able to exploit some of

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Speaker 3: that French French play French defense because it probably wasn't

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Speaker 3: as good as the previous week. Let's touch on a

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Speaker 3: couple of things, and you mentioned the set piece. The

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Speaker 3: first try came from set Peace. First try, second try anyway,

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Speaker 3: cam royguards try came from set Peace.

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Speaker 2: Lovely we training ground play.

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Speaker 3: That was, you know, something that you see on a

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Speaker 3: training ground that you don't expect to come up in

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Speaker 3: the game, but it did and probably exemply that the

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Speaker 3: confidence that the All Blacks were playing with that night.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's a lot to that move.

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Speaker 4: Bryan Evans, the Hurricanes lineout coach, got the praudits for

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Speaker 4: that and this was probably been glossed over in terms

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Speaker 4: of changes to the All Blacks this year. But I

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Speaker 4: spoke to Tupo Vi an immediate scrum afterwards and he

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Speaker 4: talked about how they stole that move from the Hurricanes,

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Speaker 4: and it was from the Hurricanes used against the Hollanders

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Speaker 4: and Wellington and Brent Evens has brought it to the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks and the All Blacks identified that France on

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Speaker 4: their defensive lineout only have their half back in the

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Speaker 4: front and so it worked to absolute perfection. Like you say,

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Speaker 4: that doesn't happen too often. You think back to Tony

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Speaker 4: Wilcox will try in the twenty eleven World Cup Final TV. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's been others. But Brent Evens, yeah, a real underrated

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Speaker 4: sort of figure in terms of changes to All Black

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Speaker 4: management and he was getting a lot of praise. Scott

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Speaker 4: Robinson spoke very highly of He talked about having an

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Speaker 4: interview with him that he didn't know was an interview

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Speaker 4: and they talked lineouts for an hour and then that

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Speaker 4: was all he needed to hear. And he's brought him

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Speaker 4: into camp this year, so you broaden that out and

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Speaker 4: it is very important for the All Blacks to be innovating,

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Speaker 4: to be trying things, particularly against this French team, because

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Speaker 4: I'll ask you this, what about the French strategy of

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Speaker 4: changing ten starting players so they well exceeded expectations in Dunedin,

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Speaker 4: you know, push the all Blacks to the brink.

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Speaker 5: The series is on the line.

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Speaker 4: Fabianngaltig wants to use as full thirty eight man squad

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Speaker 4: on this tour. But they made ten starting changes, introduced

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Speaker 4: six rookies, rested Gailfku the most experienced figure, and captain

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Speaker 4: some of their best players from the first test one

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Speaker 4: of their loose forwards.

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Speaker 5: What do you make of that strategy?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it just shows that the series never

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Speaker 3: really meant that much to them in all honesty, because

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Speaker 3: if it did, you'd go, you know, absolute balls to

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Speaker 3: the wall, you know, put your best team out in

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Speaker 3: the park, and they haven't done that.

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Speaker 4: Boden Barratt had seventy two more caps than the entire

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Speaker 4: French team.

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Speaker 3: Well, two of the best players are coming off the

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Speaker 3: bench and they have done in the first two weeks,

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Speaker 3: Cameron Walkee and Romaine Tofafaniuer. They've come off the bench

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Speaker 3: in both weeks and have made a difference when they've

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Speaker 3: come on and have more experience than a lot of

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Speaker 3: these players now, whether they're under a minute's restriction, whatever

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Speaker 3: it might be. This wasn't a selection from Gualty how

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Speaker 3: to save the series. And then that you read and

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Speaker 3: go this series doesn't mean that much to them, and

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Speaker 3: you go back to the original point of the squad

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Speaker 3: they selected to bring down to New Zealand, is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, the July series just is something they're contractual,

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Speaker 3: tractually obliged to do.

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Speaker 2: They check that off. They probably would rather not do it.

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Speaker 3: They use they're developing a little bit of depth, but

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Speaker 3: the series, in terms of actually winning the series means

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Speaker 3: very little to the French.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I had a wee bit of context to this.

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Speaker 4: So the Super Agby season is four months long and

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Speaker 4: I think teams play a maximum about seventeen games. The

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Speaker 4: ABS then play thirteen fourteen tests over a five month period.

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Speaker 4: In France the clubs play up to thirty seven games

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Speaker 4: in a season that's almost ten months, and then France

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Speaker 4: play about eleven tests. So I guess that just highlights

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Speaker 4: the difference in domestic to international and it's something that

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Speaker 4: needs to be addressed and I don't know whether it will.

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Speaker 4: And it's also worth noting that World Rugby actually moved

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Speaker 4: the international calendar largely to try and appease the top

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Speaker 4: fourteen clubs from June to July to try and get

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Speaker 4: more alignment. And there's also been a lot of chats

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Speaker 4: given what's happening in Australia with the Lions, that maybe

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Speaker 4: the lines should go on toward France. Well, they'll be

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Speaker 4: playing a beat team. So France, as you mentioned before,

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Speaker 4: just do not care from an international perspective. They've got

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Speaker 4: this long standing agreement with the French clubs that precludes

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Speaker 4: them from selecting their best players and so it really

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Speaker 4: does make a mockery of the elite status of the

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Speaker 4: international game exactly.

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Speaker 3: And it's not going to change because the French have

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Speaker 3: their Top fourteen, which is a very successful problem, the

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Speaker 3: best club competition in the world. It's not watched down

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Speaker 3: in New Zealand, much like Super Rugby probably isn't watched

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Speaker 3: too much in France. And when you have these two

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Speaker 3: things collide around what matters most to them in their game,

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Speaker 3: and the Top fourteen is very very important to them.

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Speaker 3: In New Zealand, the test matches are very very important

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Speaker 3: to them. This is a July series. It's a market

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Speaker 3: series for New Zealand rugby. It's an opportunity to get

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Speaker 3: a lot of money through the door. Well, friend, track,

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Speaker 3: you don't care about that. They care about the November

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Speaker 3: Games when they're hosting these the countries, these countries and

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Speaker 3: the Six Nations. They don't care about these July series.

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Speaker 3: They never really have and they're basically, as I say,

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Speaker 3: a box to be ticked.

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Speaker 4: So this goes back to the point I was making

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Speaker 4: last week about I think the overriding frustration and disappointment

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Speaker 4: with the All Blacks performance in Dunedin and the prism

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Speaker 4: with which we view the series through. So yes, the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks were vastly improved and impressive in a number

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Speaker 4: of different facets.

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Speaker 5: But how much can you take out this series.

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Speaker 3: Well, you can only take what you know, what's been

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Speaker 3: played in front of you. This isn't the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: choice to play this team. They've been put out there

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Speaker 3: and again going into the series. It was a case

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Speaker 3: of a no win situation. I think for Scott Robertson

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Speaker 3: is that they're playing very inexperienced international players who are

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Speaker 3: good at domestic level.

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Speaker 2: And that's the thing, as I said last week.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's a big drop off from their

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Speaker 3: top team to their second team, but they're inexperienced at

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Speaker 3: test level. So regardless of when you play players that

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Speaker 3: are playing inexperienced at test level, you're always going to

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Speaker 3: be judged harshly, rightly or wrongly on that. And so

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Speaker 3: this whole series has been a no win situation. They're

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Speaker 3: poor Internedin and everyone says, well, this is a Bereat

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Speaker 3: French B team. They beat them in Wellington, while everyone

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Speaker 3: says this is a French B team, you should have

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Speaker 3: beat them by this much. So for the All Blacks,

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Speaker 3: I think it's a no win scenario.

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Speaker 5: It is.

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Speaker 4: It does allow them, it should allow them, and will

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Speaker 4: this week because the series is wrapped up, freedom to experiments,

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Speaker 4: to try things, to innovate, but they are a vastly

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Speaker 4: tougher tests to come this year. Let me put it

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Speaker 4: to you this way, would the All Blacks have beaten

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Speaker 4: the spring Box at the weekend?

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Speaker 3: No, probably not. But there's a reason they play the

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Speaker 3: spring Box in September rather than July. And in some

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Speaker 3: ways this is quite good for the All Blacks is

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Speaker 3: to be able to win with that expectation. I mentioned

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Speaker 3: before on them that they have to win and win

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Speaker 3: well but still be able to bring in some players,

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Speaker 3: which they'll do this weekend. Just before we wrap up

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Speaker 3: the game, any further thoughts, but I wanted to touch

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Speaker 3: on the second half and twenty nine to three up.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this always happens, doesn't that. Yet you take

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Speaker 3: a fifteen minute break for halftime, you lose some of

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Speaker 3: that momentum that you have in a contest. France brings

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Speaker 3: on five changes early in the second spell, as I

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Speaker 3: touched on Walkie and Top for Feranila to their better

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Speaker 3: players that are out here on this tour. France look

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Speaker 3: to disrupt the All Blacks a little bit more so

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Speaker 3: they weren't able to kick on with it maybe as

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Speaker 3: much as you would like in the second spell. It's

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Speaker 3: hard to judge because the All Blacks mate changes as well.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know really what to take out of

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Speaker 3: the second forty minutes. That's why I very much narrowed

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Speaker 3: down what the first ford is delivered.

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Speaker 4: I think the All Black the composition of the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks bench isn't quite right at the moment, and that

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Speaker 4: that's partly because you're missing guys like to Mighty Williams,

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Speaker 4: Tyrrel Lomax, Anthonina Brown hasn't featured in this series. Wallace

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Speaker 4: Attiti's still to come back, Caleb Clark's out for five

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Speaker 4: to six weeks. Sev Reese was had a head knock

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Speaker 4: in that first test. He might be available in Hamilton.

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Speaker 4: So the All Blacks aren't at full strength and I

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Speaker 4: think that's affecting that the impact that they get off

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Speaker 4: the bench. So we need to see more from that,

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Speaker 4: and just between move on again, I just want to

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Speaker 4: touch on some individual performances. I thought Artie severe outstanding.

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Speaker 4: I think I think we saw what the leadership means

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Speaker 4: to him. You know, we saw that with Moylan this

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Speaker 4: year and it does seem to really inspire him. He's

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Speaker 4: not a big talker. He leads to actions and we

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Speaker 4: saw that again in his home city that Tupo via

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Speaker 4: tray he fends off the French whose fire makes the break.

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Speaker 4: There was a couple of errors in there at times

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Speaker 4: as well, but he was just everywhere, wasn't he. Cody

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Speaker 4: Taylor consistently excellent and I think you only really appreciate

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Speaker 4: that when he's not there. Somasny Taky came off the

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Speaker 4: bench and missed his first lineout. So Cody Taylor forces

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Speaker 4: errors with his defense, has set pieces exemplary, He's so

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Speaker 4: mobile and his work rates there. Fabian Holland goes eighty

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Speaker 4: minutes again, Patrick two Plotu was very good for sixty minutes.

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Speaker 4: Big Ball carries one line out steel. He might have

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Speaker 4: injured his knee might not be available this week. Cam

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Speaker 4: Royguard is playing out of his skin, his big booming boot,

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Speaker 4: his running game. Billy Procter, I thought grew into the

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Speaker 4: game and benefited from that selection, continuity and tupu VIAI.

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Speaker 4: I'm not to commit to it yet, but I'm on

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Speaker 4: the verge of admitting that I may have been wrong,

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Speaker 4: that the All Blacks may be right, and that their

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Speaker 4: move for him at six. It was noted by one

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Speaker 4: of our loyal listeners, Paul Stevens, the jibe that you

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Speaker 4: gave me last week about when I said he's too

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Speaker 4: tall for a six and you said he's only a

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Speaker 4: couple of inches taller than Jerome Kino. So he won't

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Speaker 4: play in Hamilton. But because of an h he failed

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Speaker 4: as HIA, but.

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Speaker 3: He can still be cleared. But I suspect the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks will go on. There are on the side of caution.

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Speaker 3: We're recording this on Monday. We haven't heard as he

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Speaker 3: Spadeen definitively ruled out, but as you say, failed as

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Speaker 3: HR on the night he was having a second one

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Speaker 3: on Sunday. Don't know, but most likely the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: won't take that risk. Why would you take that risk?

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Speaker 4: He exactly, And you've got guys like look Jacobson coming back.

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Speaker 4: So look, some very pleasing individual performances there. There were

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Speaker 4: some that weren't. Weren't as good. What do you make

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Speaker 4: of them? On the whole?

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Speaker 3: I thought, Yeah, those players you highlighted there were excellent.

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Speaker 3: I think Christian Leo Willie, he has been quiet a

336
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Speaker 3: couple of weeks. There were a couple of moments on

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Speaker 3: the weekend that he can be proud of. I think

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Speaker 3: there's one breakdown turnover of memory service right that he

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Speaker 3: was able to get again. Remembering he came from outside

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Speaker 3: the squad to be starting these first two test matches

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Speaker 3: of the year, may have had his opportunity to come

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Speaker 3: a different way, obviously giving Hi miss out on the

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Speaker 3: initial squad. So look, I think he I don't know

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Speaker 3: whether it will start him this week or not give

345
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Speaker 3: him a third test in a row. That will be

346
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Speaker 3: interesting from an All Blacks perspective. We'll get into the

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Speaker 3: makeup maybe of that team in a moment or two.

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Speaker 3: Fabing Hond I thought was improved from the first performance,

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Speaker 3: and that's two eighty minute performances in a row from

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Speaker 3: a test debutante who's come out and delivered. I thought

351
00:17:50,533 --> 00:17:52,813
Speaker 3: was a little bit more adaptive to Test rugby this

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Speaker 3: week than maybe we saw that the previous week. I

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Speaker 3: also just want to highlight as well, maybe the drop

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Speaker 3: off between Mighty Williams and Taroll Lomax and Ethan Degruten,

355
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Speaker 3: Fletcher Newell, especially as starting players. Absolutely yeah, and yes

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Speaker 3: the scrum hew up pretty well. From All Blacks perspective.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they've got any scrum penalties maybe one

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Speaker 3: on the weekends. But it seems now that in terms

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Speaker 3: of t Mighty interraal, there is a clear one and

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Speaker 3: two or one and three if you want to use

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Speaker 3: the numbers, and a clear drop off between whether the

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Speaker 3: players are coming off the bench. So that's interesting, I think,

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Speaker 3: just to point out from an All Blacks perspective as

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Speaker 3: we hit into this weekend. The other thing I did

365
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Speaker 3: want to highlight and I mentioned this last week. I

366
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Speaker 3: think on the pod is around the entries into the

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Speaker 3: twenty two and on the weekends the French. Last weekend,

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Speaker 3: the French averaged four point eight points per twenty two

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Speaker 3: entry and the All Blacks average two point three. On

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Speaker 3: the weekend, the All Blacks averaged four point three points

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Speaker 3: from their ten entries into the twenty two. The French

372
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Speaker 3: average one point four from twelve entries into the twenty two,

373
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Speaker 3: So the French actually rammed it up a little bit

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Speaker 3: in terms of accessing the twenty two. The All Blacks

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Speaker 3: defense largely held strong, but the All Blacks are a

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Speaker 3: bit more clinical, got more payo out of the time

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Speaker 3: they're the twenty.

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Speaker 4: Two, and that speaks to the defensive shifts, doesn't it.

379
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Speaker 4: The All Blacks did have to defend. I think the

380
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Speaker 4: opening minute they defended fifteen sixteen phases and that really

381
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Speaker 4: set the tone. And twenty seven points in Dunedin is

382
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Speaker 4: far too many for the All Blacks to be conceding.

383
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Speaker 4: They were open about the fact that hurt, that stung

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Speaker 4: them and they made their adjustments. Just before we move

385
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Speaker 4: on to Hamilton. Something to note from the post about

386
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Speaker 4: the crowd at the weekends. It's obviously sold out, great

387
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Speaker 4: double headed with the black Ferns as well, but interesting

388
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Speaker 4: to note that sixteen thousand people of the crowds, or

389
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Speaker 4: forty seven percent of the spectators, came from outside the

390
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Speaker 4: Wellington region. So when you talk about the competition for

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Speaker 4: test matches in New Zealand, and we touched on this

392
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Speaker 4: around Dunedin, they're not alone. With the new christ Church

393
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Speaker 4: Stadium coming in. Hamilton's got to test this weekend. I

394
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Speaker 4: think that highlights how much an All Black test means

395
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Speaker 4: from an economic perspective to a city.

396
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Speaker 3: Well it's an event, and as has been well documented,

397
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Speaker 3: a lot of concerts aren't coming to New Zealand anymore.

398
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Speaker 3: The All Blacks are one of the last standing events

399
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Speaker 3: that yep, we're going to book our flights, we're going

400
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Speaker 3: to book hotels, we're going to pump some money into

401
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Speaker 3: the local economy. And the stadium was rocking. It was

402
00:20:27,613 --> 00:20:29,773
Speaker 3: sold out. Wellington hasn't always been able to do that,

403
00:20:29,813 --> 00:20:32,813
Speaker 3: but perhaps with the small number of tests that we're

404
00:20:32,853 --> 00:20:35,893
Speaker 3: getting on New Zealand soil in the coming years, it

405
00:20:35,933 --> 00:20:39,693
Speaker 3: was an opportunity to spend a weekend in Wellington. The

406
00:20:39,733 --> 00:20:42,133
Speaker 3: waterfront was rocking on Saturday afternoon. It was pissing down

407
00:20:42,133 --> 00:20:44,493
Speaker 3: with rain but didn't stop the You and I are

408
00:20:44,493 --> 00:20:47,453
Speaker 3: walking around Lamptham Key earlier in the day. It's raining,

409
00:20:47,493 --> 00:20:50,973
Speaker 3: but it's packed, isn't it. Oh, we were stopping bumping

410
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Speaker 3: into people. We knew sort of every fifty meters or so.

411
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Speaker 3: No white matfoot is on the waterfront, which is something.

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Speaker 3: Before we leave talking about Wellington, that was made a

413
00:21:00,133 --> 00:21:01,893
Speaker 3: pretty tough we tripped given it was raining.

414
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Speaker 4: Yeah, devastating. It's a game day tradition. There's normally a

415
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Speaker 4: store on the Wellington waterfront. Go there, get a very

416
00:21:08,373 --> 00:21:14,013
Speaker 4: traditional whitebait fritteran and white piece of parrale breads. So yes,

417
00:21:15,053 --> 00:21:19,013
Speaker 4: walk along the waterfront was the head was down unto

418
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Speaker 4: Dame Coles to say hello, but yeah, if you could

419
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Speaker 4: did see in ZAID president Matthew Cooper after the game

420
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Speaker 4: and he's a fan of the pot actually, which is

421
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Speaker 4: nice and he is positively fizzing for the All Blacks

422
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Speaker 4: to come to Hamilton.

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Speaker 3: Well The Cowboys cow bells were banned for the stadium

424
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Speaker 3: of the Super Rugby Final in christ Church. I'm sure

425
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Speaker 3: there'll be a few Cowboys around Hamilton, which brings us

426
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Speaker 3: to a good point because this could be a very

427
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Speaker 3: chief oriented team on the weekends. There is a license,

428
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Speaker 3: I guess from the All Blacks to change things up

429
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Speaker 3: a little bit. That they have now won the series.

430
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Speaker 3: They said they were going to bring in and give

431
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Speaker 3: opportunities to plays. Everyone in the squad was going to

432
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Speaker 3: play during the series. How far do they change things

433
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Speaker 3: this weekend? Liam and how much do they look for continuity?

434
00:22:08,213 --> 00:22:10,733
Speaker 3: We talked to Bovi probably not going to play. Do

435
00:22:10,773 --> 00:22:12,773
Speaker 3: you look at it, christianly O Willie again at number eight?

436
00:22:12,773 --> 00:22:15,853
Speaker 3: Do you look at again putting Billy Procter in thirteen

437
00:22:16,013 --> 00:22:18,293
Speaker 3: just to get those reps under the belt.

438
00:22:18,293 --> 00:22:19,613
Speaker 2: How would you approach this weekend.

439
00:22:20,453 --> 00:22:23,133
Speaker 4: I'd like to see Billy Proctor get another go, and

440
00:22:24,693 --> 00:22:27,493
Speaker 4: it's almost like what they did with Damian McKenzie last year.

441
00:22:27,493 --> 00:22:29,213
Speaker 4: I think he started the first seven tests of the

442
00:22:29,293 --> 00:22:32,893
Speaker 4: year and that was about like you say, reps and

443
00:22:33,093 --> 00:22:35,453
Speaker 4: I think we saw at the weekend Billy Proctor got

444
00:22:35,453 --> 00:22:39,613
Speaker 4: better as the game went on. So Antonlina Brown is

445
00:22:40,013 --> 00:22:42,733
Speaker 4: available and you would think comes back from his broken

446
00:22:42,773 --> 00:22:46,813
Speaker 4: collar bone, he's equally a depth adept at twelve and thirteen.

447
00:22:47,853 --> 00:22:51,813
Speaker 4: They could easily play him alongside Quintapaire, but I would

448
00:22:51,853 --> 00:22:55,733
Speaker 4: like to see Billy Procter made his debut against Fiji

449
00:22:56,133 --> 00:22:59,453
Speaker 4: outside Antonlina Brown and actually played exceptionally well together, so

450
00:22:59,493 --> 00:23:01,893
Speaker 4: I'd like to see that combination. But I agree there

451
00:23:01,893 --> 00:23:03,573
Speaker 4: will be a lot of chiefs, so I think McKenzie

452
00:23:03,613 --> 00:23:08,933
Speaker 4: starts at ten, kem royguard at halfback. I think you'll

453
00:23:08,973 --> 00:23:12,973
Speaker 4: see Ruben Love possibly at fullback. Is obviously a hurricane,

454
00:23:12,973 --> 00:23:18,053
Speaker 4: but Ammonia Narawa not too sure of. Seva Reice probably

455
00:23:18,053 --> 00:23:22,053
Speaker 4: been available. Somersoni Takayaho will probably come in at hooker

456
00:23:22,373 --> 00:23:24,053
Speaker 4: if Patrick two Plotu.

457
00:23:23,773 --> 00:23:24,453
Speaker 5: Is not available.

458
00:23:24,493 --> 00:23:28,653
Speaker 4: They're really light on locks, so Natoora Koi, who has

459
00:23:28,693 --> 00:23:31,133
Speaker 4: been training with the team since I think Scott Barrett's

460
00:23:32,013 --> 00:23:34,373
Speaker 4: was ruled out through injury. You're only going to have

461
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:37,173
Speaker 4: two foot locks with our Koi and Fabian Holland.

462
00:23:38,373 --> 00:23:40,253
Speaker 3: That's gonna be interesting to see what they call anyone

463
00:23:40,413 --> 00:23:43,533
Speaker 3: through this week, isn't it. I'm just while we've been

464
00:23:43,533 --> 00:23:45,013
Speaker 3: on any of the All Blacks have done their media

465
00:23:45,053 --> 00:23:49,693
Speaker 3: opportunity and sounds like Terrell's Alble Torollomex is available for selection,

466
00:23:49,733 --> 00:23:51,413
Speaker 3: which is a positive for the All Blacks for this

467
00:23:51,453 --> 00:23:54,773
Speaker 3: week to provide a no go look Jacobson, Anton Lennet Brown,

468
00:23:54,813 --> 00:23:56,493
Speaker 3: no mention of Patrick two Piloti, So I guess we

469
00:23:56,613 --> 00:23:59,573
Speaker 3: wait to see how this week goes on. So what

470
00:23:59,613 --> 00:24:01,973
Speaker 3: would your loose forward make up be? We mentioned the

471
00:24:01,973 --> 00:24:05,213
Speaker 3: locks there. For me, I'd probably go Jacobson at blindside

472
00:24:05,253 --> 00:24:10,573
Speaker 3: flanker could he fee this starts at open side, and

473
00:24:10,573 --> 00:24:14,373
Speaker 3: then Savia at number eight potentially, And I mentioned I

474
00:24:14,373 --> 00:24:16,213
Speaker 3: willing maybe getting some more reps under his belt. But

475
00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:19,373
Speaker 3: you've also got the added complication in Vita Commas that

476
00:24:19,493 --> 00:24:21,533
Speaker 3: Ardie sav is your captain for the rest of the series.

477
00:24:21,533 --> 00:24:25,053
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, I would leave Ardi at seven because he

478
00:24:25,173 --> 00:24:27,853
Speaker 4: is the captain needs to start. I would play Jacobson

479
00:24:28,013 --> 00:24:32,293
Speaker 4: at eight, and I'd start female at six who's come

480
00:24:32,293 --> 00:24:35,653
Speaker 4: off the bench the past two weeks and give le

481
00:24:35,733 --> 00:24:39,013
Speaker 4: a weird spell. I agree he was reasonably anonymous. I

482
00:24:39,053 --> 00:24:42,133
Speaker 4: think in Wellington. I was impressed by him in Ternedin

483
00:24:42,893 --> 00:24:46,013
Speaker 4: and then that allows carefe. I think at the moment

484
00:24:46,253 --> 00:24:48,493
Speaker 4: that bench roll, I think he could be the All

485
00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:52,653
Speaker 4: Blacks Quaga Smith type guy, so keep him in those reps.

486
00:24:53,613 --> 00:24:56,933
Speaker 4: Guys like Noah Hotham Brody McAllister, who is the vulture

487
00:24:56,973 --> 00:25:01,333
Speaker 4: of the squad, Chiefs Hooker via the Crusaders, Antelena Brown

488
00:25:01,733 --> 00:25:03,813
Speaker 4: and Ruben Love. They will all come into the mix

489
00:25:03,853 --> 00:25:04,933
Speaker 4: because they haven't featured.

490
00:25:05,093 --> 00:25:08,133
Speaker 3: I'd say that'll come off the bench at this point,

491
00:25:08,573 --> 00:25:10,333
Speaker 3: I think to Pie and maybe starts something field with

492
00:25:10,373 --> 00:25:15,173
Speaker 3: Procter just thinking mccallist. I can't see him starting, so

493
00:25:15,373 --> 00:25:17,053
Speaker 3: I put them on the bench room and Loved potentially

494
00:25:17,093 --> 00:25:18,613
Speaker 3: off the bench. I mean they could start them at

495
00:25:18,653 --> 00:25:25,373
Speaker 3: fullback maybe again, it's that continuity versus getting the right combinations.

496
00:25:25,373 --> 00:25:27,413
Speaker 3: I mean Will Jordan's clearly the All Blacks fullback. He's

497
00:25:27,453 --> 00:25:30,013
Speaker 3: only played one test there this year because you can

498
00:25:30,053 --> 00:25:32,613
Speaker 3: discard the first you know, the first minute that he

499
00:25:32,653 --> 00:25:34,453
Speaker 3: played there internedin. So does he give him a second

500
00:25:34,493 --> 00:25:37,093
Speaker 3: test at fullback just to again build that fullback role

501
00:25:37,133 --> 00:25:39,333
Speaker 3: for him. It's going to be a very interesting team

502
00:25:39,333 --> 00:25:40,373
Speaker 3: when it's named on Thursday.

503
00:25:40,733 --> 00:25:42,413
Speaker 4: It is, and I expect the French to be better.

504
00:25:42,413 --> 00:25:45,053
Speaker 4: I think this team will be much stronger than the

505
00:25:45,053 --> 00:25:46,213
Speaker 4: one they put out in Wellington.

506
00:25:46,253 --> 00:25:49,813
Speaker 5: They'll bring back Fiku and.

507
00:25:49,053 --> 00:25:52,813
Speaker 4: The suggestion out of the French camp from people we

508
00:25:52,893 --> 00:25:56,653
Speaker 4: know around the team is that Gualtier has targeted this

509
00:25:56,773 --> 00:26:00,293
Speaker 4: third Test, and with the All Blacks potentially making a

510
00:26:00,333 --> 00:26:04,453
Speaker 4: lot of changes, some injury enforced, some not, there is

511
00:26:04,493 --> 00:26:06,573
Speaker 4: a real risk that you that you lose a degree

512
00:26:06,613 --> 00:26:10,613
Speaker 4: of continuity. So I expect the French to be better

513
00:26:10,653 --> 00:26:11,813
Speaker 4: than they were in Wellington.

514
00:26:12,333 --> 00:26:13,333
Speaker 2: I would say they would be.

515
00:26:13,853 --> 00:26:16,373
Speaker 3: It was interesting that was put to Scott robertson that theory,

516
00:26:16,413 --> 00:26:20,293
Speaker 3: and I think the words were around with retargeted the thirties. Well,

517
00:26:20,333 --> 00:26:22,333
Speaker 3: they'll have to now because they're tourning it down the

518
00:26:22,373 --> 00:26:24,293
Speaker 3: series and I'm going to leave with something in Hamilton.

519
00:26:24,333 --> 00:26:25,453
Speaker 2: They'll have to have to win there.

520
00:26:25,573 --> 00:26:25,893
Speaker 5: That's right.

521
00:26:25,933 --> 00:26:28,173
Speaker 4: It's also worth noting we're at the post match press

522
00:26:28,173 --> 00:26:32,573
Speaker 4: currents and Fabian Goaltier was not happy with the All Blacks.

523
00:26:33,133 --> 00:26:35,413
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if they were singing their victory song

524
00:26:35,613 --> 00:26:39,693
Speaker 4: or doing the Hawker to Tavanawa on debut, but there's

525
00:26:39,693 --> 00:26:42,333
Speaker 4: certainly a lot of noise emanating from their changing room

526
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:46,213
Speaker 4: and Gualtier actually I think requested to one of the

527
00:26:46,213 --> 00:26:49,253
Speaker 4: news on Arabi staff members that the press currency stopped

528
00:26:49,293 --> 00:26:50,373
Speaker 4: because it was too noisy.

529
00:26:50,853 --> 00:26:51,813
Speaker 5: Come on, mate, I.

530
00:26:52,413 --> 00:26:54,413
Speaker 3: Think it was the victory song that they were singing.

531
00:26:54,453 --> 00:26:56,653
Speaker 3: I was quite close to that wall at that point

532
00:26:56,653 --> 00:26:59,253
Speaker 3: in time, next to Jamie Wall who was trying to

533
00:26:59,293 --> 00:27:04,013
Speaker 3: sop the coffee the hot water machine from working. Yeah,

534
00:27:04,093 --> 00:27:06,493
Speaker 3: there's a lot going on in that post match media conference,

535
00:27:06,533 --> 00:27:08,573
Speaker 3: both the All Blacks and the French. It's just it

536
00:27:08,573 --> 00:27:10,733
Speaker 3: that way. Let's take a break here on Rugby Direct.

537
00:27:10,773 --> 00:27:13,333
Speaker 3: We'll come back with the Final four after this.

538
00:27:13,333 --> 00:27:17,373
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

539
00:27:20,253 --> 00:27:24,013
Speaker 3: Every try try and sixty sec every tackle, pack tackles.

540
00:27:24,013 --> 00:27:24,773
Speaker 1: Get up again.

541
00:27:28,053 --> 00:27:30,013
Speaker 2: Before I'm not. It's Rugby Direct.

542
00:27:31,693 --> 00:27:33,773
Speaker 3: You're back with Rugby to Direct. Time now for the

543
00:27:33,773 --> 00:27:37,253
Speaker 3: Final four. Four rugby topics, myself and Liam debate them.

544
00:27:37,253 --> 00:27:40,173
Speaker 3: Where we've just come off the Australia New Zealand Invitational side,

545
00:27:40,173 --> 00:27:43,253
Speaker 3: which I was quite looking forward to spoke with he'd

546
00:27:43,253 --> 00:27:46,373
Speaker 3: go surr assistant coach Ian Foster last week about it.

547
00:27:46,373 --> 00:27:48,573
Speaker 3: There was a sense that they were building something in camp,

548
00:27:48,613 --> 00:27:50,973
Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of time to implement things. Well,

549
00:27:51,373 --> 00:27:54,533
Speaker 3: they didn't really deliver. The lines are very very good,

550
00:27:54,533 --> 00:27:56,493
Speaker 3: mind you, and this was not the Lions Test team

551
00:27:56,493 --> 00:27:59,093
Speaker 3: that we expect to be rolled out this weekend, but

552
00:27:59,293 --> 00:28:02,653
Speaker 3: it was rather shambock from the a U n Z

553
00:28:02,853 --> 00:28:07,533
Speaker 3: side and pretty disappointing given the hype that had emanated

554
00:28:07,613 --> 00:28:10,693
Speaker 3: around this team in this camp and this concept, and

555
00:28:11,973 --> 00:28:12,893
Speaker 3: just didn't quite deliver.

556
00:28:13,573 --> 00:28:14,693
Speaker 5: It was awful, wasn't it.

557
00:28:14,733 --> 00:28:17,573
Speaker 4: I think they made something like sixty six percent of

558
00:28:17,613 --> 00:28:21,653
Speaker 4: their tackles. The jerseys were grim, the performance was grim.

559
00:28:21,853 --> 00:28:25,133
Speaker 4: I personally don't want to see that team again.

560
00:28:25,893 --> 00:28:26,973
Speaker 2: Well it was put too.

561
00:28:26,973 --> 00:28:28,573
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think it was on the TV coverage

562
00:28:28,653 --> 00:28:30,573
Speaker 3: or not, Like, wouldn't this be a great concept to

563
00:28:30,613 --> 00:28:33,813
Speaker 3: have in twenty twenty nine when the Linds to New Zealand.

564
00:28:33,893 --> 00:28:36,853
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no thanks, you don't reckon. I don't like

565
00:28:36,893 --> 00:28:42,533
Speaker 4: it at all. Let's be blunt. A New Zealand Super

566
00:28:42,613 --> 00:28:48,133
Speaker 4: Rugby team would have been vastly more competitive. And perhaps

567
00:28:48,173 --> 00:28:50,493
Speaker 4: we read into some of the names on paper, but

568
00:28:50,653 --> 00:28:53,333
Speaker 4: I think it does speak in the modern age too.

569
00:28:53,893 --> 00:28:56,813
Speaker 4: The challenges are bringing a team like that together and

570
00:28:56,933 --> 00:28:59,173
Speaker 4: inside a week it was it. A week previous we

571
00:28:59,253 --> 00:29:02,813
Speaker 4: saw the spring Box absolutely pace the bar Bars in

572
00:29:02,893 --> 00:29:08,413
Speaker 4: South Africa. Test teams these days are so organized and

573
00:29:08,533 --> 00:29:14,013
Speaker 4: so much analysis. You know, generally pretty cohesive beasts, and

574
00:29:14,133 --> 00:29:17,813
Speaker 4: to expect an invitational team that's smacked together inside a

575
00:29:17,853 --> 00:29:21,013
Speaker 4: week to be competitive as maybe a bit of.

576
00:29:21,493 --> 00:29:24,093
Speaker 3: I've seen Barbers seem to be competitive though in matches

577
00:29:24,133 --> 00:29:25,013
Speaker 3: before and they have been.

578
00:29:24,973 --> 00:29:26,173
Speaker 2: Largely on the piss for a week.

579
00:29:26,253 --> 00:29:29,493
Speaker 3: So look to me underlined how good the Lions are

580
00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:32,893
Speaker 3: and unfortunately this is turning into one of the worst

581
00:29:32,893 --> 00:29:35,173
Speaker 3: lines tours in history through no fold of the Lions.

582
00:29:35,213 --> 00:29:37,613
Speaker 3: It's the fold of Australian teams being utter crap.

583
00:29:38,053 --> 00:29:40,893
Speaker 4: This is the first time that the Lions have kneeled

584
00:29:40,933 --> 00:29:43,813
Speaker 4: an opponent since beating the Melbourne Rebels thirty five nil

585
00:29:43,853 --> 00:29:46,813
Speaker 4: on the twenty thirteen tour. So in Australia, yeah again.

586
00:29:47,133 --> 00:29:49,613
Speaker 4: And I read a column from Quaig Cooper. I'm not

587
00:29:49,653 --> 00:29:54,373
Speaker 4: sure watch publication it was in, you know Quaig Cooper,

588
00:29:54,573 --> 00:29:58,733
Speaker 4: Great New Zealander. But he actually made a very salient

589
00:29:58,773 --> 00:30:03,693
Speaker 4: point that the the AARU have missed this track by

590
00:30:03,813 --> 00:30:08,413
Speaker 4: not allowing the Wallabies players to play in their for

591
00:30:08,453 --> 00:30:14,653
Speaker 4: rugby teams, because the perception in Australia now is switching

592
00:30:14,693 --> 00:30:18,613
Speaker 4: off because of how uncompetitive they have been. And for

593
00:30:18,693 --> 00:30:22,293
Speaker 4: guys like Tom Lioner, how much would have he benefited

594
00:30:22,333 --> 00:30:27,013
Speaker 4: from playing for the Reds against the Lions, rather than

595
00:30:27,093 --> 00:30:31,773
Speaker 4: potentially making his Test taboot having not played for five

596
00:30:31,893 --> 00:30:34,773
Speaker 4: or six weeks, and it does really illustrate the lack

597
00:30:34,813 --> 00:30:38,533
Speaker 4: of depth in Australia when you take the half a

598
00:30:38,573 --> 00:30:41,253
Speaker 4: dozen best players out of those teams and you have

599
00:30:41,333 --> 00:30:43,653
Speaker 4: sucked the life out of that tour because you know

600
00:30:44,053 --> 00:30:47,853
Speaker 4: the Test matches aren't all sold out yet. And this

601
00:30:47,893 --> 00:30:51,613
Speaker 4: is unless we see something from the Wallabies. This is

602
00:30:51,973 --> 00:30:56,533
Speaker 4: on the verge of being the most overhyped, under delivered

603
00:30:56,653 --> 00:30:59,533
Speaker 4: tour rugby tour in history.

604
00:30:59,693 --> 00:31:01,733
Speaker 2: It is do you see Australia firing?

605
00:31:02,973 --> 00:31:06,933
Speaker 4: I give him a crack in the first Test, but no,

606
00:31:07,253 --> 00:31:10,173
Speaker 4: I see the Lions winning three And because it's so

607
00:31:10,373 --> 00:31:15,053
Speaker 4: contingent on for me, guys like Will Skelton and Rob

608
00:31:15,133 --> 00:31:20,173
Speaker 4: Valentini just having some punch in that pack, and it

609
00:31:20,293 --> 00:31:22,413
Speaker 4: just feels the lines actually haven't been that good.

610
00:31:22,973 --> 00:31:23,333
Speaker 5: I saw.

611
00:31:23,933 --> 00:31:28,293
Speaker 4: I think it was Crishast on the BBC podcast talking

612
00:31:28,293 --> 00:31:34,453
Speaker 4: about how criticizing them for their performances against the Warrita

613
00:31:35,653 --> 00:31:38,293
Speaker 4: and the Brumbies in particular, and how he expected them

614
00:31:38,333 --> 00:31:41,453
Speaker 4: to get better and better, but they it doesn't matter

615
00:31:41,613 --> 00:31:43,613
Speaker 4: because of how poor the opposition they've been.

616
00:31:44,053 --> 00:31:44,533
Speaker 2: That's right.

617
00:31:45,333 --> 00:31:47,133
Speaker 3: I thought they were better than perhaps the British media

618
00:31:47,133 --> 00:31:49,453
Speaker 3: gaving credit for against the Brumbies, who are a good

619
00:31:49,493 --> 00:31:51,093
Speaker 3: team and the kind of the team we saw in

620
00:31:51,133 --> 00:31:53,453
Speaker 3: Super Rugby that can stay on the contest, that can

621
00:31:53,573 --> 00:31:58,453
Speaker 3: niggle you, that can almost play that lion style of rugby.

622
00:31:58,533 --> 00:32:00,373
Speaker 3: So I thought they were about harshing some of the

623
00:32:00,653 --> 00:32:03,253
Speaker 3: reporters around that, and it felt like there was a

624
00:32:03,293 --> 00:32:05,533
Speaker 3: lot of a happier note from what they delivered on

625
00:32:05,533 --> 00:32:08,493
Speaker 3: the weekend. There's been some criticisms criticism as well of

626
00:32:08,533 --> 00:32:12,653
Speaker 3: the Australian build up to the series, as you mentioned,

627
00:32:12,653 --> 00:32:15,853
Speaker 3: around not parachuting some players and to their Super Rugby sides.

628
00:32:16,893 --> 00:32:20,693
Speaker 3: One criticism from Christy Dorian, who did a podcast last

629
00:32:20,693 --> 00:32:24,933
Speaker 3: week last year with Before the Bledisloe in Sydney, was

630
00:32:25,053 --> 00:32:28,773
Speaker 3: around not perhaps making James O'Connor available for the Australian

631
00:32:28,773 --> 00:32:33,213
Speaker 3: New Zealand team and giving him an opportunity there. Nicknamed

632
00:32:34,093 --> 00:32:38,213
Speaker 3: Joe Schmidt Sleepy Joe, I mean that would have been

633
00:32:38,253 --> 00:32:39,853
Speaker 3: the obvious thing is that you know you could have

634
00:32:39,893 --> 00:32:43,093
Speaker 3: had in theory James O'Connor at ten and his Super

635
00:32:43,133 --> 00:32:45,853
Speaker 3: Rugby team mate David Avilli at twelve, and instantly that's

636
00:32:45,853 --> 00:32:47,733
Speaker 3: a better combination, a better team.

637
00:32:48,413 --> 00:32:49,413
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah it is.

638
00:32:49,733 --> 00:32:51,893
Speaker 4: I don't know whether James o'conn's a game change, and

639
00:32:51,933 --> 00:32:56,093
Speaker 4: I think from what I've heard, there are insurance challenges

640
00:32:56,173 --> 00:32:58,933
Speaker 4: around guys that are thirty five years and older, which

641
00:32:59,453 --> 00:33:03,893
Speaker 4: is a groom, isn't it for I'm thirty five? Bogu

642
00:33:03,933 --> 00:33:07,573
Speaker 4: well for our future premiums. But I wonder whether that's

643
00:33:07,573 --> 00:33:10,773
Speaker 4: why guys like Aaron Smith he was in Australia but

644
00:33:10,813 --> 00:33:15,013
Speaker 4: didn't play Sam Caine. Yeah, it didn't get cover for

645
00:33:15,053 --> 00:33:18,493
Speaker 4: their Japanese deal because of the more higher risk of injury.

646
00:33:19,693 --> 00:33:21,693
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know.

647
00:33:22,773 --> 00:33:25,933
Speaker 4: That team probably needed three weeks to prepare and that's

648
00:33:25,973 --> 00:33:27,733
Speaker 4: pretty unrealistic in the current climate.

649
00:33:27,773 --> 00:33:30,813
Speaker 3: We'll see you in twenty twenty nine. Black Funds fire

650
00:33:30,813 --> 00:33:34,653
Speaker 3: and the second spell to beat Australia. First half was

651
00:33:34,773 --> 00:33:37,453
Speaker 3: really scrappy, mehan. The Black Fans scored after fifty seven

652
00:33:37,493 --> 00:33:41,893
Speaker 3: seconds through Portia Woodman Wickliffe, but just couldn't get going

653
00:33:41,893 --> 00:33:43,733
Speaker 3: for a lot of that seconds at first spell. But

654
00:33:43,853 --> 00:33:48,933
Speaker 3: after halftime Australia fatigued they couldn't stay with the Blackfounds

655
00:33:48,933 --> 00:33:51,933
Speaker 3: when they lifted up at level. But as a last

656
00:33:51,973 --> 00:33:54,293
Speaker 3: test before the Rugby World Cup, it was anything but

657
00:33:54,453 --> 00:33:55,573
Speaker 3: vintage from the Blackfunds.

658
00:33:56,493 --> 00:33:57,013
Speaker 5: I agree.

659
00:33:57,253 --> 00:33:59,973
Speaker 4: It was not a tough watch, but it was a

660
00:34:00,013 --> 00:34:03,493
Speaker 4: real grind for forty five to fifteen minutes, wasn't it.

661
00:34:03,493 --> 00:34:06,733
Speaker 4: And it's you know, the Black Fans have never lost

662
00:34:06,733 --> 00:34:09,893
Speaker 4: to the Wallaroos, and they haven't. The Walleries have improved.

663
00:34:10,093 --> 00:34:14,853
Speaker 4: They got some notable results in the WXV. I think

664
00:34:14,893 --> 00:34:17,693
Speaker 4: they beat Canada and finished ahead of the Black Fans

665
00:34:17,733 --> 00:34:22,973
Speaker 4: even from memory, so look that improving. But on that's evidence,

666
00:34:23,413 --> 00:34:27,973
Speaker 4: I would say if the Black Ferns played Canada, France, England,

667
00:34:28,013 --> 00:34:31,213
Speaker 4: they'd lose to them all tomorrow. There were some impressive

668
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:36,813
Speaker 4: individual performances. Porsha Woodman was good, Sylvia Brunt as class

669
00:34:36,893 --> 00:34:39,173
Speaker 4: and Georgia Miller what a talent she is to go

670
00:34:39,213 --> 00:34:42,693
Speaker 4: from the seventh scene to a bona fide open side flankerd,

671
00:34:42,773 --> 00:34:45,373
Speaker 4: to get turnovers at the breakdown, to roam on the

672
00:34:45,453 --> 00:34:48,533
Speaker 4: edge to score that brilliant individual try man, She is

673
00:34:48,573 --> 00:34:53,413
Speaker 4: a weapon. But collectively the attack was pretty poor and

674
00:34:53,493 --> 00:34:55,333
Speaker 4: there's some big question marks over that team.

675
00:34:55,413 --> 00:34:58,253
Speaker 3: Hiaden North, Yeah, I agree. In the players you've highlighted

676
00:34:58,293 --> 00:35:01,093
Speaker 3: the Wooden Wickliff. Her return to this team out of

677
00:35:01,133 --> 00:35:03,973
Speaker 3: retirement has been a game changer. We scored a score

678
00:35:04,013 --> 00:35:06,013
Speaker 3: seven against the USA hat trick on the weekend. It

679
00:35:06,053 --> 00:35:10,653
Speaker 3: was a birthday she is and you know, but with

680
00:35:10,853 --> 00:35:14,293
Speaker 3: single out players, two of them aren't full time Black

681
00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:19,773
Speaker 3: Funs fifteens players there. Sylvia Brunt is, Borceawyn Wickliffe is retired.

682
00:35:20,093 --> 00:35:22,173
Speaker 3: Georgia Miller is a sevens player, and these are the

683
00:35:22,213 --> 00:35:25,053
Speaker 3: kind of players that are elevating the Black Funds fifteens.

684
00:35:25,053 --> 00:35:26,853
Speaker 3: So I think that is a worry, maybe not for

685
00:35:26,853 --> 00:35:28,493
Speaker 3: the World Cup, maybe the you know, these players are

686
00:35:28,533 --> 00:35:30,053
Speaker 3: going to be the ket the World Cup. With the

687
00:35:30,053 --> 00:35:31,973
Speaker 3: long term health of fifteens in New Zealand, I think

688
00:35:31,973 --> 00:35:33,973
Speaker 3: it is a warrior. Georgia Miller was outstanding once again

689
00:35:34,293 --> 00:35:36,493
Speaker 3: on the weekend. Is a big difference maker. Her ability

690
00:35:36,533 --> 00:35:38,493
Speaker 3: to find time and space. I mean she's playing like

691
00:35:38,533 --> 00:35:41,133
Speaker 3: a center as an openside flanker, and that try she scored.

692
00:35:41,253 --> 00:35:44,053
Speaker 3: I saw Addie Savia and the comments of that trial

693
00:35:44,133 --> 00:35:46,733
Speaker 3: on Instagram, you know, giving her a bit of praise.

694
00:35:46,773 --> 00:35:49,133
Speaker 3: That was kind of the things that he does when

695
00:35:49,173 --> 00:35:51,813
Speaker 3: he can find those space. So she is absolutely electric

696
00:35:51,853 --> 00:35:54,493
Speaker 3: at the moment. So but as I say, it is

697
00:35:54,533 --> 00:35:57,453
Speaker 3: slightly worrying to me. If I take the World Cup

698
00:35:57,493 --> 00:35:59,853
Speaker 3: head off that these players that are in preasing are

699
00:35:59,933 --> 00:36:02,813
Speaker 3: not the regular fifteens players.

700
00:36:02,853 --> 00:36:07,013
Speaker 4: It does shine a light on the next gen coming through.

701
00:36:07,053 --> 00:36:11,933
Speaker 4: And yeah, they're World Cups in forty days, so you're

702
00:36:11,933 --> 00:36:13,613
Speaker 4: not going to get a lot of shifts between now

703
00:36:13,613 --> 00:36:16,013
Speaker 4: and then. They don't have another game, I don't think no,

704
00:36:16,453 --> 00:36:19,813
Speaker 4: and so it's going to be a huge ass to

705
00:36:19,813 --> 00:36:21,013
Speaker 4: go up there and defend that title.

706
00:36:21,133 --> 00:36:22,893
Speaker 3: That is a huge ask. They don't have another game,

707
00:36:22,893 --> 00:36:26,493
Speaker 3: You're right. They play Spain first up, and then they

708
00:36:26,533 --> 00:36:29,733
Speaker 3: play Japan, and then they've got Ireland, who they lost

709
00:36:29,733 --> 00:36:31,653
Speaker 3: to last year. So they do have two games that

710
00:36:31,653 --> 00:36:33,973
Speaker 3: they would expected to be win and win comfortably to

711
00:36:34,013 --> 00:36:36,973
Speaker 3: get them into what will then basically need to be

712
00:36:37,173 --> 00:36:39,733
Speaker 3: winning four games in four weeks to win the Rugby

713
00:36:39,773 --> 00:36:43,453
Speaker 3: World Cup. So luckily it's hope it's enough. Topic number

714
00:36:43,493 --> 00:36:47,373
Speaker 3: three spring Box trickery, genius or against the spirit of

715
00:36:47,453 --> 00:36:50,693
Speaker 3: the game. There were two instances that I'm sure our

716
00:36:50,733 --> 00:36:53,093
Speaker 3: listeners have caught up with the kickoff at the start

717
00:36:53,133 --> 00:36:56,013
Speaker 3: of the game that deliberately didn't go ten. It was

718
00:36:56,013 --> 00:36:58,333
Speaker 3: reclaimed by a Springbox player because they wanted to set

719
00:36:58,333 --> 00:37:01,733
Speaker 3: a scrum in midfield, and then there was the mini

720
00:37:01,893 --> 00:37:03,573
Speaker 3: or mock line out in the middle of the park,

721
00:37:03,613 --> 00:37:07,373
Speaker 3: which they attempted twice. From my understanding during that game

722
00:37:07,813 --> 00:37:09,773
Speaker 3: it scored a try off one. They've just go to

723
00:37:09,813 --> 00:37:12,333
Speaker 3: try off one of it. Yeah, absolutely one of those lineouts.

724
00:37:12,413 --> 00:37:15,373
Speaker 3: So I know the whole acy Breakfast and I met

725
00:37:15,373 --> 00:37:17,493
Speaker 3: Heats an occasional listener of the podcast, they had a

726
00:37:17,493 --> 00:37:20,333
Speaker 3: segment called penis or genius. Which way do you feel

727
00:37:20,373 --> 00:37:22,253
Speaker 3: was this genius from Russy Erasmus or whatnot?

728
00:37:22,493 --> 00:37:22,693
Speaker 2: Oh?

729
00:37:22,733 --> 00:37:26,493
Speaker 4: Look, I love innovation of any kind, so more power

730
00:37:26,533 --> 00:37:30,493
Speaker 4: to them, and I wonder how much of it is.

731
00:37:32,373 --> 00:37:33,573
Speaker 5: Diversion in a way.

732
00:37:33,613 --> 00:37:35,973
Speaker 4: It's like, look look at what we can do, and

733
00:37:36,013 --> 00:37:37,413
Speaker 4: we've got this in our back pocket.

734
00:37:37,453 --> 00:37:38,213
Speaker 5: Be wary of it.

735
00:37:38,533 --> 00:37:38,733
Speaker 2: You know.

736
00:37:38,773 --> 00:37:41,813
Speaker 4: It does force teams to think about ways to counter

737
00:37:41,893 --> 00:37:45,693
Speaker 4: their and to devote certain amount of time in their

738
00:37:45,733 --> 00:37:48,053
Speaker 4: build up to playing the spring box, two things that

739
00:37:48,133 --> 00:37:50,413
Speaker 4: they might pull out of their pocket even if they don't.

740
00:37:50,453 --> 00:37:53,333
Speaker 4: So look, I do not expect the spring box to

741
00:37:54,893 --> 00:37:57,053
Speaker 4: hand the ball over to the all Blacks on the

742
00:37:57,133 --> 00:38:02,693
Speaker 4: halfway line from a kickoff A You could argue it

743
00:38:02,733 --> 00:38:05,933
Speaker 4: was cynical because he's offside, but It's one thing to

744
00:38:05,973 --> 00:38:08,453
Speaker 4: do it against Italy, it's another to give the all

745
00:38:08,453 --> 00:38:12,573
Speaker 4: Blacks and attacking scram on halfway. What a platform that

746
00:38:12,733 --> 00:38:16,413
Speaker 4: is the setting up of the malls. I think that

747
00:38:16,573 --> 00:38:19,573
Speaker 4: is something we will see more from the spring Box

748
00:38:19,613 --> 00:38:23,413
Speaker 4: because it does suit their game. But that is much

749
00:38:23,453 --> 00:38:25,693
Speaker 4: easier to defend than a line out drive because you're

750
00:38:25,693 --> 00:38:28,693
Speaker 4: a lot further from the line generally, and if you

751
00:38:28,773 --> 00:38:32,333
Speaker 4: don't engage, it's truck and trailer and I'm pretty sure

752
00:38:32,333 --> 00:38:34,453
Speaker 4: you can collapse it because it's not from a lineout

753
00:38:34,453 --> 00:38:39,853
Speaker 4: as well, So there are ways to defend it. But innovation, Look,

754
00:38:39,893 --> 00:38:45,253
Speaker 4: this is russy. Whether it's the bomb squad or these

755
00:38:45,293 --> 00:38:47,173
Speaker 4: sorts of things, I love to see it.

756
00:38:47,573 --> 00:38:50,613
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think the innovation's ideal for the game.

757
00:38:50,733 --> 00:38:53,413
Speaker 3: And I think rugby Union and rugby League, if we

758
00:38:53,453 --> 00:38:57,013
Speaker 3: expand it, there is starved of innovation. It's become very homogenized,

759
00:38:57,093 --> 00:39:00,213
Speaker 3: very same same and South Africa Persson the boundaries and

760
00:39:00,253 --> 00:39:01,813
Speaker 3: when you see things like that, and when you see

761
00:39:01,813 --> 00:39:04,053
Speaker 3: things like can Roygards stray on the weekend, you stand

762
00:39:04,133 --> 00:39:06,573
Speaker 3: up on a plure because this is rugby being played

763
00:39:06,613 --> 00:39:10,653
Speaker 3: outside the norms and pushing the bound the lineout one

764
00:39:10,773 --> 00:39:12,133
Speaker 3: I would have an issue with. I know from a

765
00:39:12,173 --> 00:39:14,333
Speaker 3: line out the lift of the player's been lifted has

766
00:39:14,333 --> 00:39:17,373
Speaker 3: to come to ground immediately. Don't know if that's the

767
00:39:17,373 --> 00:39:20,453
Speaker 3: same if they're being held in midfield in open play,

768
00:39:20,533 --> 00:39:22,333
Speaker 3: so that would be something that needs to be clarified.

769
00:39:22,333 --> 00:39:25,533
Speaker 3: But I don't think it's a coincidence that they have

770
00:39:25,653 --> 00:39:28,813
Speaker 3: Yucco Piper and their staff that these sort of things

771
00:39:28,813 --> 00:39:31,053
Speaker 3: are happening, because he would know the law book like

772
00:39:31,053 --> 00:39:34,333
Speaker 3: the back of his hand. I know that Christoph Ridley

773
00:39:34,533 --> 00:39:37,173
Speaker 3: is involved with English rugby in a similar role, not

774
00:39:37,253 --> 00:39:40,573
Speaker 3: quite as embedded in the team as Yucko Piper. I'm

775
00:39:40,613 --> 00:39:43,053
Speaker 3: sure other unions are doing it. The All Blacks aren't,

776
00:39:43,093 --> 00:39:47,133
Speaker 3: but I wonder whether there's perhaps a recently retired referee

777
00:39:47,213 --> 00:39:48,853
Speaker 3: or someone that maybe they need to get on staff

778
00:39:48,893 --> 00:39:51,413
Speaker 3: and could be pushing that. I'm sure the ideas aren't

779
00:39:51,413 --> 00:39:53,453
Speaker 3: probably coming from Yucko Piper, but the sign off and

780
00:39:53,493 --> 00:39:55,213
Speaker 3: the actually, if you did it this way it is

781
00:39:55,293 --> 00:39:56,293
Speaker 3: legal probably is.

782
00:39:57,013 --> 00:39:57,213
Speaker 5: Yeah.

783
00:39:57,213 --> 00:40:00,773
Speaker 4: I know the All Blacks have referees in camp to

784
00:40:00,813 --> 00:40:03,813
Speaker 4: come in and police them in training and look at

785
00:40:03,853 --> 00:40:06,093
Speaker 4: areas they want to improve, but to have someone on

786
00:40:06,213 --> 00:40:09,613
Speaker 4: staff full time would be would be very valuable. Just

787
00:40:09,653 --> 00:40:12,213
Speaker 4: something to note about the Springboks as well. They made

788
00:40:12,253 --> 00:40:15,813
Speaker 4: seventeen changes to their twenty three for the second ten

789
00:40:16,293 --> 00:40:19,093
Speaker 4: second Test against Italy, won forty five nil and they

790
00:40:19,133 --> 00:40:24,693
Speaker 4: played one man short for twenty minutes. No, it was

791
00:40:24,733 --> 00:40:29,013
Speaker 4: fourteen through fifteen for fifteen minutes. So while they're innovating,

792
00:40:29,773 --> 00:40:32,173
Speaker 4: their strength and depth as phenomenal.

793
00:40:31,653 --> 00:40:35,653
Speaker 3: As well, springbox second string team in July like the French.

794
00:40:36,893 --> 00:40:40,573
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I've got depth, don't they they do?

795
00:40:40,653 --> 00:40:40,973
Speaker 2: Indeed?

796
00:40:41,013 --> 00:40:45,933
Speaker 3: Topic number four David Kidwell appointed to the Highlanders in

797
00:40:46,053 --> 00:40:49,373
Speaker 3: a coaching role under Jamie Joseph came as a bit

798
00:40:49,413 --> 00:40:52,333
Speaker 3: of a surprise. I mean he's been around Argentina, they

799
00:40:52,373 --> 00:40:55,013
Speaker 3: went to Japan under Eddie Jones. Has been at Leicester

800
00:40:55,453 --> 00:40:58,013
Speaker 3: in the UK for a bit now coming to coach

801
00:40:58,453 --> 00:40:59,773
Speaker 3: as part of the Highlander stuff.

802
00:41:00,293 --> 00:41:01,373
Speaker 2: Really liked this appointment.

803
00:41:02,053 --> 00:41:05,493
Speaker 3: David Hill was probably unfeely best, had a great rugby

804
00:41:05,573 --> 00:41:09,653
Speaker 3: league playing Korea, probably in New Zealand, though remembered as

805
00:41:09,813 --> 00:41:13,093
Speaker 3: the coach of the Kiwison that diabolic or twenty seventeen

806
00:41:13,133 --> 00:41:16,373
Speaker 3: World Cup campaign. Is there still the mural and you're

807
00:41:16,373 --> 00:41:18,533
Speaker 3: all still there? The key is in the WII. They

808
00:41:18,533 --> 00:41:22,613
Speaker 3: lost to Fiji quarter finals utterly. Shambollock the head coaching

809
00:41:22,613 --> 00:41:24,493
Speaker 3: of international league team may not have been for him,

810
00:41:24,653 --> 00:41:28,653
Speaker 3: but he has found his niche as an assistant coach,

811
00:41:29,053 --> 00:41:33,333
Speaker 3: a defense coach at rugby union level. And I think

812
00:41:33,333 --> 00:41:36,453
Speaker 3: this is a pretty inspired performance from Jammie jose appointment

813
00:41:36,533 --> 00:41:37,413
Speaker 3: rather than Jammy Joseph.

814
00:41:37,853 --> 00:41:39,053
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we've seen.

815
00:41:40,373 --> 00:41:44,293
Speaker 4: League tendancies come into rugby union and vice versa.

816
00:41:44,413 --> 00:41:46,053
Speaker 5: But you look at the back door plays.

817
00:41:46,213 --> 00:41:49,773
Speaker 4: A lot of professional teams used to create space for

818
00:41:49,813 --> 00:41:54,413
Speaker 4: their playmakers. That's stock standard in rugby league. And David

819
00:41:54,453 --> 00:41:58,573
Speaker 4: Cabwell I think was a big part of the Puma's

820
00:41:58,733 --> 00:42:02,253
Speaker 4: first one on New Zealand soil when christ Church that

821
00:42:02,293 --> 00:42:06,893
Speaker 4: defensive line, speed pressure had a lot of success alongside

822
00:42:06,933 --> 00:42:07,933
Speaker 4: Michael Checker.

823
00:42:08,453 --> 00:42:10,653
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think that's a great appointment for the Haunas.

824
00:42:10,693 --> 00:42:13,893
Speaker 5: I think it'll be a point of difference and super Rugby.

825
00:42:13,973 --> 00:42:18,133
Speaker 4: He replaces Dave Dylan, so good to see the hand

826
00:42:18,253 --> 00:42:20,893
Speaker 4: is making some moves and really intrigued to see what

827
00:42:20,973 --> 00:42:22,373
Speaker 4: kid Well can bring to that team.

828
00:42:22,453 --> 00:42:24,093
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, he wouldn't look out a place I don't

829
00:42:24,133 --> 00:42:26,173
Speaker 3: think in the future. All Black set up potentially David

830
00:42:26,213 --> 00:42:29,933
Speaker 3: Kibbles on the staff somewhere. As I say, I've been

831
00:42:30,013 --> 00:42:32,373
Speaker 3: very impressed by what he's done in the roles he's had,

832
00:42:32,413 --> 00:42:35,973
Speaker 3: so we'll onn't see. Maybe Jamie Joseph's lining up his

833
00:42:36,133 --> 00:42:39,933
Speaker 3: future team twenty twenty eight, who knows, who knows? We've

834
00:42:39,973 --> 00:42:43,213
Speaker 3: been through this before, haven't we. That'll do us for

835
00:42:43,533 --> 00:42:45,773
Speaker 3: Rugby Direct for another week. Thanks as always for those

836
00:42:45,773 --> 00:42:48,613
Speaker 3: of you that get in touch via social media. Dave

837
00:42:48,693 --> 00:42:50,893
Speaker 3: Paul being one of those big fans, always enjoy his

838
00:42:51,333 --> 00:42:54,773
Speaker 3: responses to episodes. Mcgheran as well bumped into mcindlading. Meant

839
00:42:54,773 --> 00:42:56,173
Speaker 3: to say this last week, but it's always good to

840
00:42:56,173 --> 00:42:58,773
Speaker 3: catch up with mc and get his thoughts on things

841
00:42:58,773 --> 00:43:00,373
Speaker 3: as well. So that'll do us for another week of

842
00:43:00,413 --> 00:43:04,213
Speaker 3: Rugby Direct. It's Pat cow Bells for the tron exactly.

843
00:43:04,213 --> 00:43:06,293
Speaker 2: I know you'll have yours, I will not have mine.

844
00:43:06,973 --> 00:43:08,813
Speaker 3: My thanks for the last and Bars English as well

845
00:43:09,013 --> 00:43:13,173
Speaker 3: for producing and thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and

846
00:43:13,253 --> 00:43:14,493
Speaker 3: your business to a high limit.

847
00:43:18,373 --> 00:43:20,933
Speaker 1: For more from News Talk sed B, listen live on

848
00:43:21,093 --> 00:43:24,013
Speaker 1: air or online and keep our shows with you wherever

849
00:43:24,093 --> 00:43:26,653
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,